Spiegel: Greek Exit From Euro Zone Just A "Matter Of Time"; Roundup Of German Press Responses To Referendum

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Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:30 | 1836549 GeneMarchbanks
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So... in 2087?

"There is much to criticize: the lack of coordination with his European partners; the apparent lack of a real plan to present to his countrymen and women. Most of all, however, his apparent indifference to the collateral damage a negative vote would have for Europe and its common currency."

Pap sat down with Merkozy, looked at their 'plan', realized these people are batshit, kamikaze-like extremists and said 'Forget it'

Or the Chinese made him an offer he couldn't refuse...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:32 | 1836579 TruthInSunshine
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Much sooner.

Remember, this is just Greece, which represents possibly a mere 5%, or so, of the DebtApocalypse that PIIGS+France+UK owe on their sovereign bonds, NOT COUNTING the necessity of having to recapitalize the private and quasi-private (i.e. nationalized or nearly nationalized) 'banks,' nor accounting for derivative exposure that the many, many counterparties of all this EU sovereign and EU bank debt exist.

Just think: If things are this bad now, at the prospect of Greece not going with the agenda, as austerity not only hasn't really bitten yet, but is only spoken of, is their any reason to suspect things will go more smoothly in Spain, Italy, or the rest of the nations in the EU that owe the loansharks more than they can possibly every repay?

Greece is the mosquito on the elephant's ass.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:33 | 1836588 disabledvet
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That's what they said about Lehman brothers.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:35 | 1836596 TruthInSunshine
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Lehman Bros was to the EU DebtApocalypse what Waddell & Reed are to the Primary Dealers, unless you're using that new, fuzzy math.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:53 | 1836697 HoofHearted
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Unless you consider everything that has happened since ISDA said that this is not a credit event, setting everything into motion for a lot of bad stuff to happen. If Greece just outright defaults, then ISDA wouldn't have so much power in the situation. Or if it tried to...well, guillotines come to mind.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:34 | 1836593 GeneMarchbanks
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To paraphrase Bass: " Sovereign defaults occur in clusters not isolated"

It's all too painfully slow if you ask me.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 13:39 | 1837609 dlmaniac
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As Ben Davis calls it, "If one of the PIIGS flies, all will."

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:05 | 1837142 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The level of absurdity is incredible.  A country is broke and expects other countries to bail them out.   And other countries thinking they should bail them out.  The only thing more absured is Obama bailing out govt union workers in the US in places like IL, CA and others by looting the Treasury.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:43 | 1837345 Lebensphilosoph
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Countries can't think.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 21:07 | 1839460 Chuck Walla
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The Chinese LOVE Ouzo and lamb!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:27 | 1836552 gojam
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Just get it over with already !


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:25 | 1836557 maxmad
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collapse, bitchez!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:30 | 1836575 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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Drachma, bitchez.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:39 | 1836591 gojam
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Count Drachma !

One, Two, Three, Four ! Four Dollars to the Drachma, ha, ha, ha, HA!

(this post was brought to you by the letters Q and E and by the number 4)

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:20 | 1837210 Taterboy
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Greeks to have a new currency called the "Feta". Yummy, edible and can be grated over a nice salad of greenback lettuce.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:26 | 1836563 Tsar Pointless
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Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:32 | 1836585 GeneMarchbanks
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Voting... Voting... Processing... Processing...

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:27 | 1836564 Mugatu
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Ahhh!  I love the smell of lamb burning in the morning!  It smells like victory!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:30 | 1836577 kita27
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who cares, the Euro isnt even low, it was 1.15 to the US dollar not even a year ago and everyone thinks the world is coming to an end when its trading in the high 1.30's.  Vote NO to the Euro!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 11:31 | 1836950 NotApplicable
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Post of the Day!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:40 | 1837326 BigJim
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Exactly. Pull up a five year chart, and the EURUSD is well within its trading range.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:31 | 1836580 disabledvet
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"Well! Phuck you very much too!" followed up with a heartfelt "You're in BIG trouble mister " to the Poopy Doo.(And a fine French mint of course.)

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:32 | 1836584 AldoHux_IV
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It would be in the best interest of any nation that wishes to retain its sovereignty to exit the euro and not participate in one of the biggest fails at consolidating power into the hands of the very idiotic and incapable few.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:35 | 1836599 disabledvet
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Does that include NewYork?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:32 | 1836586 lizzy36
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In between Sarkozy having a private dinner (on his knees) with chinese PM, they will have a "meeting" about Greece.

Can hardly wait for Obama to arrive. Bacuse after Cramer, this community organizer/consitutional law professor,he must be one of the wolrds foremost experts on EU soverign debt and the consequences thereof.

Someone should ask Obama to define CDS. Seriously just for shit and giggles. Because my bet is he has no clue what a Credit Default Swap is.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:35 | 1836595 achmachat
achmachat's picture

his teleprompter is the all-knowing!

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:39 | 1836623 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Well we do know now he has no idea what an economy is (h/t Ms Goldman of Bloomberg News.) kinda scary if you think about it. "what's an economy?"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:35 | 1837291 pain_and_soros
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His idea of an economy is  the government spends money to create the one he had at Harvard, like his community organizer job, in the Senate, etc...  In fact the government is the source of funds for Harvard (& other) student loans, research grants & subsidies, etc., Government is also the source of funding for aid to organizations he helped as community organizer.

Obama from his life experience doesn't know anything other than the Fed as the creator of money & jobs & every other good thing in the country and also knows that Wall St (i.e., the Fed) is who paid for his election victory...


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:52 | 1836699 GeneMarchbanks
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'Someone should ask Obama to define CDS. Seriously just for shit and giggles. Because my bet is he has no clue what a Credit Default Swap is.'

If you want a long, convoluted, insipid answer. He'll manage to seem intelligent to the average moonbat yet use empty PR talk.

Instead ask him about the MF Global fiasco and if it's a moral or legal problem.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 11:32 | 1836958 NotApplicable
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And he'll tell you that he cannot comment on an ongoing investigation.

Wouldn't be prudent.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:24 | 1837234 Taterboy
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Obomie knows what a credit default swap is. It's when you don't pay your car loan the repo MAN comes to the hood and takes your car. Thus "swapping" riding for walking.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:35 | 1836594 Mister Ponzi
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"As tough as it sounds, Greek politics is no longer just the business of the Greeks alone. ... Greece's fate also determines that of the other 16 euro-zone members. And if it's true that the future of the European Union hangs on the euro, then the entire project is in jeopardy."

So: A referendum not only in Greece but in all 17 member states?!? Bring it up, Bitchez!


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:35 | 1836598 Big Jim
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Wait a minute: We always complain that Europe is not enough democratic, that all decisions are taken by administrators in Brussels. 

Couldn't we see this referendum in Greece as a attempt to give voice to the people for once??

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:36 | 1836603 achmachat
achmachat's picture

no... it's an attempt for G-Pap to say: "it wasn't me!"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:50 | 1836680 Benito
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To consult the citizens? That would be so irresponsible in a western democracy!


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:38 | 1836613 agent default
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G-Pap and his family are involved in trading Greek CDSs.  Stop trying to guess what he has in mind it is obvious what he has in mind.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 12:22 | 1837223 drider
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Wed, 11/02/2011 - 13:33 | 1837576 Treason Season
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Recently, in an interview on Greek television, MP Panos Kammenos, made allegations that if true would point to a massive scam undertaken by senior members of Greece’s ruling elite.  These allegations were repeated by Mr. Kammenos ... . In a nutshell, they allege that Papandreou and members of his team presided over the sale of 1.3 billion dollars worth of credit default swap contracts (CDS on Greek sovereign debt) on or around December of 2009, shortly after coming to power. The $1.3 billion worth of insurance protecting against a Greek default was bought during the spring and summer of the same year, by the Hellenic Postbank, a public banking arm of the Greek government. (In other words, public funds to be used for public insurance against default).


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:39 | 1836620 rosex229
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i doubt this referendum issue will be what forces greece out of the eurozone. if papandreau's govt even survives until the referendum it still requires parliamentary and presidential approval after the vote. in fact, if the people vote no, which is unlikely because of how the powers that be will phrase the ballot question, papandreau will simply call for elections. however, after elections, the opposing party is in favor of renegotiating the terms of the deal, and that could be it for greece. 


its my belief that the upcoming bailout of italy, and/or credit downgrade of france within the next 6 months will be what reignites major negative swings in the markets. evebn before that we could see a credit downgrade of the u.s., which didn't go well last time, but will be even worse this timne around because it won't be taken as a one off event but a continuing degredation.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:42 | 1836632 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Define "that could be it."

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 11:57 | 1837112 rosex229
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 refers to the dispeasure of the troika upon hearing greece is demanding further haircut leading to a loss of aid and getting booted from the eu. personally g-pap is making a good move with the referendum. a 50 percent haircut, which applies only to a fraction of their privately held debt would leave the country in a position of permanently high debt leading to yet another haircut later on anyway.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:39 | 1836621 Cone of Uncertainty
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Please Greece isn't going anywhere.

There is a reason for this apparent 180 degree change in policy by G-Pap and his cabinet--they ALL voted to hold the referedum vote--and it has to do with money.

The checks have already been mailed and the plan is brilliant.

The vote will give G-pap et al cover--but the key here is the following:

The vote will occur, and it will fail, thus allowing for the baoilout bullshit to continue and the Euro to be saved...yayyyyyy!!!


Because the fucker will be rigged that's why.

Yep, G-pap has already got this setup--the vote no matter what the actual count will fail.

He and his cronies get paid and the Socialist dream lives on for all those fuckers hell bent on seeing the EU stay together.

The ony problem though, is that civil war is about to break out inside the country and a military takeover will occur--depsite the preemptive measure to avoid such a fate by replacing all the generals.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:44 | 1836646 disabledvet
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"we're flying blind...and we're stoned to the bejesus. What could possibly go wrong?"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:48 | 1836667 john39
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seems like a plausible explanation.  I can't come up with anything better.    something is going on behind the scenes.  If nothing else, the Euro clan seems to want to continue the Greek drama for some reason...  to drag it out longer.   a distraction perhaps, but for what?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:57 | 1836723 Cone of Uncertainty
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Its a gamble to try and calm the populace down.

Give the people the vote they want, kowing full well in advance what the outcome will be.

New military leadership needed to be put in in order to attempt this.

G-pap, the cabinet and others will have cover--and I'm not taling about political cover, this is cover so that they may someday walk the streets again without fear of being killed by a mob.


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:42 | 1836633 GCT
GCT's picture

The military probably told Gpap to do the referendum or they were going to take over Greece.  The minister of defense and four gererals were replaced.  Think about it.  The military took over Greece before and with these austerity measures imposed on the Greeks, the military probably gave Gpap an ultimatum to do this or else he was out and the military was going to step in.

I do not blame them but the EU was stupid to keep dropping Euro's down the black hole.  Wait for it Iceland is coming.  What bothers me is will Italy leave the EU as they hate austerity and are the 6th largest economy in the world.  A soverign is going to fall and this is going to get very ugly. 


Wed, 11/02/2011 - 13:22 | 1837536 Canucklehead
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I agree with your assessment.  I expect the new military leadership is the same as the old military leadership.  If things go sideways, a new minister of defense is about as useful as a windsock blowing in the wind.  It is pretty much guaranteed that the new minister of defense has no meaningful infrastucture in place to manage a deteriorating situation.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:43 | 1836637 youngman
youngman's picture

What..we have to wait until December for a vote....we need some new crisis before that...or I am going sailing or something....."coach...let Spain play...let him in the game...or Portugal..or Italy...they have sat on the bench for to long....come on coach..let em play too"

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:46 | 1836653 xcehn
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Perverted democracy will provide cover for the oligarchy.  The referendum was already decided when it was proposed.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 11:34 | 1836971 NotApplicable
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Shhh! You're not supposed to tell!

Oh, and 'perverted democracy' is redundant.

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