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Spiegel Interviews Tea Party Patriots Co-Founder, US Ridicule And Obama Bashing Ensues
German daily Der Spiegel has conducted a rather unexpected interview with Mark Meckler, co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots, or about as right as they come, in which he discusses the US debt ceiling, the radical right's "uncompromising fight against the national debt" and the "complete economic disaster" he claims President Barack Obama has created. Naturally, the bottom line should not come as a surprise to anyone: the great reset is overdue, and it is all Obama's fault. What is curious is that Germany is giving such a prominent soapbox to one of the US administration's biggest critics. Is Germany becoming more actively involved in doing what ECB's Trichet and Noyer have done over the past month, namely deflecting Europe's own problems by pointing out the country which Europeans have said has even worse credit fundamentals? Will ridiculing America be the dominant theme in Europe's media over the next few weeks even as the second European bailout falls apart (Intesa Sanpaolo was halted again earlier, for the nth time). Is the game of G-8 scapegoating about to take on a whole new dimension? And what does that mean for future consensus in an organization that has for now been largely submissive to every US whim? We will find out in the coming months.
In the meantime, here is Mark Meckler
SPIEGEL: The world is looking at Washington and sees gridlock and chaos. How much have the negotiations over the United States' debt ceiling hurt America's standing in the world?
Meckler: Saying that these debates have hurt our image is absurd. What you currently see in Washington is one of the most responsible debates ever about the size and scope of government. The world should look at what is going on in the United States as a model for what should happen in all countries.
SPIEGEL: We look at it and see a Congress held hostage by a small group of radical Tea Party members unwilling to agree to any budget compromise and risking a US default.
Meckler: What do you mean by "a small group?" Forty-one percent of voters in the last US election said they agreed with Tea Party values. And the primary values of the Tea Party are about fiscal responsibility.
SPIEGEL: But you are willing to accept a US default if your demands for massive budget cuts and no tax increases are not met. That seems rather irresponsible or even unpatriotic. Most leading economists forecast financial "Armageddon" in that case.
Meckler: Default is a false threat. We take in over $220 billion in revenues every month and our debt service is only roughly $20 billion. The only way we will default is if the President of the United States makes the irresponsible choice not to pay our debts. We Tea Party Patriots put principles first, and we have to understand what America is about. Our country was founded on an idea: liberty. But it requires fiscal responsibility for people to be free. We are becoming slaves to our own government. Every US family now owes $400,000 to $500,000 in national debt. We Tea Party Patriots fight for the future of the nation, and there can be nothing more patriotic than that.
SPIEGEL: Democracy is not just about winning fights. It can only function if all parties are open to compromise.
Meckler: The compromises that we have witnessed on debt have taken our country to the brink of financial collapse. Currently, the American government is spending 44 cents of each dollar on interest payments. We have compromised our way into disaster. None of the budget plans proposed have real cuts in them -- only promises to cut. The reality is that legally one Congress cannot bind the future Congress to cut, so these promises are actually a lie. We need real and immediate cuts.
SPIEGEL: The budget plan proposed by Republican speaker John Boehner contained massive spending cuts. Why were you so unwilling to embrace it?
Meckler: Look closely at the plan: It proposes $22 billion in cuts in the upcoming fiscal year. That is ridiculously little. It is the equivalent in the United States of shutting off the lights on Friday night and reopening at your normal rate of spending on Monday.
SPIEGEL: The plan also rules out any tax increases to close the deficit, though. Even the plan of the Democrats does not mention new taxes. So your movement already won the debate over taxes.
Meckler: This debate is not about taxes. This is a question of spending. There is no amount of taxes that we could raise that would stop our deficit spending caused by politicians who have lied so often.
SPIEGEL: Your movement often refers to Ronald Reagan, the Republican icon. But he raised taxes 11 times and the debt ceiling 18 times.
Meckler: At no time did he control both houses of Congress, so often he had no choice. But Reagan got attacked viciously by conservatives over this, just as we would attack any Republican president in the future if he did something similar.
SPIEGEL: The US economy is still growing very slowly. If you cut government spending drastically now, you will risk having a double-dip recession.
Meckler: That is simply wrong. Government spending is never efficient.
SPIEGEL: But in the short run, the cuts will lead to even higher US unemployment.
Meckler: Possibly on a minimal level. But we have worried about the short term for so long that we have damaged the long-term prospects of our nation. Look at what is going on in Europe: Spain is a complete disaster. It has more vacant homes than we have here, with only 40 million people. Italy is a complete disaster. Europe is going down the same path as the US, only many countries are far ahead and don't take corrective action.
SPIEGEL: Speaker Boehner failed several times to rally Republicans around his plans. Does he need to go?
Meckler: We have polled our membership and 74 percent of our members in our 3,500 chapters said it is time to look at new leadership.
SPIEGEL: And should he be replaced by a Tea Party representative?
Meckler: The ultimate goal is to have somebody in the House who is fiscally responsible. We have changed the debate in the United States, which is a pretty radical thing to do in such a short period of time. The question back then was: "How much more will we spend next year, not how much can we cut?" But you will see much more profound change in 2012.
SPIEGEL: Who could be the Tea Party candidate in the next presidential election?
Meckler: The movement has no clear preference. Our members are taking a cool and careful look at all the candidates on the Republican side. I am actually glad people are not more excited and blown away. The last time we saw that on the campaign trail, the country got Barack Obama in the White House -- and that led to complete economic disaster.
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Thing is, you didn't describe the TP, you just described perfectly the liberal socialist democrat party of America that is currently in charge of ass-fukking the poor people while telling them how good it must be for them. There's more poor people since they took over congress in 2006 and Black unemployment is now over 30%. When the poor people even miss Bush, then it's time for a Tea Party.
The banksters, Soros, Obama, Pelosi, Kerry, Clintons and the rich hollywood cabal are all socialists and One-Worlders, run by the richest of the rich, "Trying to save life on this planet as we know it," and ultimately, by culling humans from the planet, which will begin with all those poor people, which they call behind their backs, "useless bread eaters."
"The ruling elite must be very, very smart.... or you would think they would occassionally make a mistake in our favor." --- James Forrestal.
It is not about looking for scapegoats, Tyler: The US is as fucked as Europe and the rest of the Western world and those dumping stuff to the West.
I think the Us has a slightly larger problem, however in a game of "chicken"a draw has two losers.
hang on..... what's left? bangladesh?
The idea of the USA being vigorously and patriotically defended against the POSSIBILITY that europe would do to the USA exactly what the USA has been consistently and energetically doing to IT every time it wished to deflect attention from its sorry statistical lies is beyond amusing.
PLEASE someone hit CTL ALT DEL
hmmm. Good thought, let's take it to absurd levels:
Imagine German air bases in Texas. French army bases in Luisiana. Italian warships in New York, Japanese carriers in San Diego. This would make a scary movie, wouldn'it? It's ok, really. It's the other way round.
Seriously Tyler, I don't get this Anti-Euro feelings, this is also the reason why I'm sporting an Avatar without boobs (I know you like boobs!).
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If the Euros will put their military bases in America to defend our country for us and we can cut our military spending in half, then I'm willing to learn French.
Ok, ok. You don't need to learn French, we could send the Spanish.
But more importantly: Defend from what?
That's the Tea Party problem, they really ignore why the US has one half of the armies/navies of this world (and one quarter of the economy).
Every time the United States has suggested leaving Germany, the Germans have thrown a massive tantrum and complained about all the jobs that they'll lose.
I'm not suggesting the U.S. is welcome everywhere or even most places, but even a tenuous grasp of the history on that particular issue shows the Germans as opportunists. Their military spending (concurrent with most other European nations) has absolutely collapsed because of the American SugarDaddy backing them.
This is one rare issue where it's actually the Germans who are on the dole.
That's also because we other Europeans don't want to see Germany rearm, if possible. Opportunism? Of course. It's still an American Choice. Like the German Troops in Afghanistan.
Then Europeans (especially) can't complain about how we have 50% of global military spending if its a system that you collectively endorse.
Complain about U.S. military spending or complain about the U.S. presence in Europe, but you can't complain about both of those simultaneously with an excuse that it's to prevent German re-armament.
*psssst* imagine chinese military bases in kalifornia. . .
der spiegel is a weekly
"Will ridiculing America be the dominant theme in Europe's media over the next few weeks..."
When has ridiculing America not been the dominant theme? :)
Ridiculing America has been our bread and butter for ages, sadly its to hide the fact that we have similar retards with similar dissalligned interests leading our economies down the path to destruction.
I have always considered we Americans the equals of our friends across the pond, because we are just as dumb as you guys are :) Stupidity is a nation's most consistently-traded commodity. It crosses borders with no tarifs and no customs inspections required.
Deflection. If you don't like the headlines, change the topic. Basic "Wag the Dog".
This morning over coffee my SIL said that "the American public will not stand for the blah, blah, blah.
My response was: When does football season start, and who is winning on "Americas top dancers" or whatever circus on on Tee Wee now.
Protect yourself for the coming hurricane. It is just off shore.
Technically speaking the purpose of such highly visible articles is to achieve harmonization with the Eurozone. The U.S. must be taken down a notch if the new EuroBond is going to be able to compete.
Dave Harrison
www.tradewithdave.com
The EuroBond is a London of City TBTF wet dream which has NO reason to exist except for banker bonuses.
The only media clamoring for EuroBonds and EuroTaxes are British/Australian and no, they don't join the Euro. Capish?
Is the Tea Party emblem a swastika?
It's pretty clear we're not getting along as a nation anymore: when it's necessary for the Federal Gov to dispose of more than the majority of the GDP just to get a 'compromise', then I'd say that's a pretty good stall indicator for civil society. Any more we're all hostages, and every election cycle we vote for a set of terrorists. US politics is basically the world's largest outbreak of Stockholm syndrome.
We listen to experts blathering about what amazing maneouvers they're going to do with the US economy... " The White House plan will take us in a tailslide, followd by a snap turn just above the ground and then a vertical climb back to forty thousand feet in 10 seconds or so. Drinks will then be served in the main cabin, free of charge for all have-nots." No, it's never been done before. Not with an overloaded airliner, but that never gets mentioned... The Federal Gov was never designed to do that.
Put the fucking plane on the ground and let some of us off.
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The Tea party represents the American middle class and the only thing radical about them, to some, is they want adherence to Constittutional government and fiscal responsibility so the USA doesn't go bankrupt and we become debt slaves. Irresponsible big government and NWO is the enemy. Imagine that --- those rebels!
The assault on them for not getting in line with the one world government agenda is predictable. Beatings by the MSM will continue until moral improves.
Meckler is a self-appointed Tea Party spokesman.
Meckler is operating on funny money.
Meckler is a media parasite ... created out of thin air.
Meckler does not speak for the Tea Party Patriot Movement.
Der Speigel must be hard up to give this clown oxygen.
i hate to say this, but i have never heard of this guy before. who is he?
>> who is he?
Clearly, a spokesperson for the interests of Koch Industries. Yet another blathering windbag pointing the finger of blame while accepting no responsibility what-so-ever. Any Jackass that can take the position that the Republicans, or any previous administration, had anything to do with our countries clusterfuck should be seen for the dupe he is. It's unfortunate that so many are able to cheer him on because they can't distance themselves from the party loyal politics that got us to this point.
ok Der Spiegel got a repugnicrat tea-bagger against Obama shooting his wad.
Here's a Rabo Bank Manager, that's totally following the Obama party line: Once the debt ceiling issue is solved, we are out of the woods. And: There's no way to counter the losses of dutch investors (in the USA) if it comes to a recession in the USA. And more nonsense like that... Extend, pretend, profit; the usual bankster crap. It's the same world, folks, just a different continent.
http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=12907053
(at the very end of the video)
Tea baggers don't get that they exist because
1.) Nixon took us off the gold and silver standard
2.) Reagan proved that deficits that come from tax cuts don' t matter
3.) George Bush tax cuts and fucking wars.
"Currently, the American government is spending 44 cents of each dollar on interest payments."
I believe he meant to say that they're borrowing 44 cents for every dollar they spend. Debt service is not 44% of the money being spent as is made clear in his earlier statement about how the whole "default" issue is indeed bogus.
Meckler: Default is a false threat. We take in over $220 billion in revenues every month and our debt service is only roughly $20 billion.
Meckler: The compromises that we have witnessed on debt have taken our country to the brink of financial collapse. Currently, the American government is spending 44 cents of each dollar on interest payments.
Something doesn't make sense here. In his first statement, debt service is 9% of income, in his second it's 44%. You can't have it both ways.
44% number is wrong, but so are you :) The two statements refer to different denominatiors (income vs total expenditures).
I already pointed out the answer to your question in the post just prior to yours. The fedgov is borrowing 42-44% of every dollar it spends. It's not spending that much on interest payments.
>> I already pointed out the answer to your question
You gave your opinion on what you thought Meckler ment to say. I'm going to go on what he actually said. I really don't need you as an interpreter for this blathering idiots spew.
This is why ZH is fantastic.
It is why it is one thing to find Der Spiegel’s viewpoint on Sunday night’s ZH…often on Greek or Italian developments, but it is quite another to be able to draw an analysis of where the politics of Europe is headed in respect to U.S. policy. Clearly, Zero Hedge has it right; the banker-dominating influence in Europe is worried about the trends in the fiscal fight brought on by the Tea Party.
"Meckler: What do you mean by "a small group?" Forty-one percent of voters in the last US election said they agreed with Tea Party values. And the primary values of the Tea Party are about fiscal responsibility."
Umm, not really Meckler. That's a leap the world long jump holder can't make. Relying on a bit too much statistical sophistry are you? Reading a bit too much into vague questions given to a confused sample the size of a large family?
"Meckler: Default is a false threat. We take in over $220 billion in revenues every month and our debt service is only roughly $20 billion. The only way we will default is if the President of the United States makes the irresponsible choice not to pay our debts. We Tea Party Patriots put principles first, and we have to understand what America is about. Our country was founded on an idea: liberty. But it requires fiscal responsibility for people to be free. We are becoming slaves to our own government. Every US family now owes $400,000 to $500,000 in national debt. We Tea Party Patriots fight for the future of the nation, and there can be nothing more patriotic than that."
So mark meckler is all for paying the fraud first! What a dumbass. So their principles are to forget to judge if the debt is real, and instead just pay it off, damn grandma? Some 'principles'. Sounds more like complete idiocy to me.
Cancel the fraudulent debt, THEN pay the legitimate debt...before more gets intertwined and gets ruined What dumbshit Meckler thinks is all the fraud is as good as the legitimate, when it is the combining of the two that has led us here. So in order to pay off fraud, he's willing not only to risk the legitimate, but to cut shit in order to do it. Nice job Forrest.
So he's also saying on top of paying the fraud FIRST. That it's ok that we pay the little we have into that first, damn the rest. What a fucking fool.
No mark, we are becoming slaves to banks, for legitimizing their fraudulent debt. Something you still can't fanthom because you have the brain of a ant.
Every family owes....national debt....well no shit sherlock. I've been spouting numbers like that for well over a decade. Guess what though, it's fraud. Cancel it.
Yes there can be something more patriotic than cutting shit to pay off fraudulent debt, it's by noticing you can use consitutional principles in the form of Glass-Steagall to cancel the fraud, that you dumbass non-patriots want to cut needed services for. Oh what patriots you are...and if your patritotic aunt had a nutsuck she'd be your patriotic uncle. But you aren't patriots, because you want to cut over cancel. Any dipshit that doesn't realize you need to cancel not cut, is not only a dipshit, but is completely clueless that they are still championing the bankster cause, and using 'patriotism' to cover for their traitorous actions.
"Meckler: This debate is not about taxes. This is a question of spending. There is no amount of taxes that we could raise that would stop our deficit spending caused by politicians who have lied so often."
Not fraudulent debt Meckler? Just spending? Again what a dumbass. Why doesn't someone tell the idiot savant that even if you cut ALL social spending....you still wouldn't be able to pay off our fraudulent debt. Things are still going to crash. The system is still going to be fucked up. Wall Street Banksters will still try to steal every penny of 'available credit' the united states is 'under the limit' to be bailed out. None of what he says, changes that. Taxes won't solve it. Cutting spending won't solve it. But dipshit, seems to think HE CAN SOLVE IT. We just need to quit spending on social things (mostly), and then other things as well. So if a problem is so big taxes AND spending cuts won't solve it. Why the fuck would only spending cuts solve it? Pagin Mr. Magoo. Oh wait, he's already here, and talking to der spiegel.
You know it takes a really stupid dumbshit motherfucker to see at least in some partial way the problems we have, and yet missed the point so much.
The Tea Party, named after a college prank and what online shooters do to each other after a kill, and still just as clueless. What complete unpatriotic fucktards.
The real solution, the real patriotic action, is passing Glass-Steagall
Notice 'nut sack on your face' didn't even bring it up. Maybe because he's a fucking idiot who is spouting wall street bullshit? Oh yeah.
Republicans are dumbshits. Democrats are idiots...and just as bad...the tea party are a bunch of dumbfucks.
The only answer is Glass-Steagall, the rest is wall street sophistry. (and will only make things worse)
Interesting to see that even in Europe they're parroting the "big cuts to the baseline are actual cuts" meme. More lies and liars.
"Der Spiegel" is somewhat of a opinion journal traditionally and will present news with an identifiable agenda and commentary. It used to be more leftish, but has started to also present opinions from both sides. Typically, when interviewing, they will take the opposite side as the interviewee. They can also take the other angle, as in this one on EU bailouts:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,777671,00.html
Most people in Europe (or in the US for that matter) do not understand that the government is still planning to run large deficits because the media does not spell that out in the newsbites. Sometimes they do, though, as here (German only, unfortunately)
http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article13519767/Ein-Lob-der-Tea-Pa...
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