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Spiegel: "It's Time To End The Greek Rescue Farce"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Back in July of 2011, when we first predicted the demise of the second Greek bailout package, even before the details were fully known in "The Fatal Flaw In Europe's Second "Bazooka" Bailout: 82 Million Soon To Be Very Angry Germans, Or How Euro Bailout #2 Could Cost Up To 56% Of German GDP" we asked, "what happens tomorrow when every German (in a population of 82 very efficient million) wakes up to newspaper headlines screaming that their country is now on the hook to 32% of its GDP in order to keep insolvent Greece, with its 50-some year old retirement age, not to mention Ireland, Portugal, and soon Italy and Spain, as part of the Eurozone? What happens when these same 82 million realize that they are on the hook to sacrificing hundreds of years of welfare state entitlements (recall that Otto von Bismark was the original welfare state progentior) just so a few peripheral national can continue to lie about their deficits (the 6 month Greek deficit already is missing Its full year benchmark target by about 20%) and enjoy generous socialist benefits up to an including guaranteed pensions? What happens when an already mortally wounded in the polls Angela Merkel finds herself in the next general election and experiences an epic electoral loss? We will find out very, very shortly." Alas, it has not been all that very "shortly", as once again we underestimated people's stupidity and willingness to pay the piper of a crumbling economic and monetary system. But our prediction is finally starting to come true. Spiegel has just released an article, which encapsulates what well over 50% of Germans think, who say that the time to let Greece loose, has come.

Greeks burning a German flag:

From Der Spiegel

It's Time To End the Greek Rescue Farce

Whether it be an escrow account or a budget commissioner, the latest demands by Germany show just how absurd negotiations over Greece's future have become. It is high time to bring an end to this tragicomedy.

For the past two years, Greece has wrangled with the euro-zone states and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) over its so-called "rescue." Austerity measures have been agreed to, aid has been paid and private creditors have been forced to accept "voluntary" debt haircuts. Despite all this, Greece is in even worse shape today than it was then. Its economy is shrinking, the debt ratio is rising and the country and its banks have been cut off from capital markets. There isn't even the slightest sign that the situation might improve. Something has gone very wrong with this rescue.

But none of the protagonists seem to have grasped this. They continue to negotiate as if things are business as usual, they let one "final ultimatum" after the other pass and they persistently fail to realize that their discussions have started to verge on the absurd. It would be a lot better to end this farce.

For weeks now, the Greek government has been negotiating with private creditors and the troika comprised of the IMF, European Union and European Central Bank (ECB) over a second bailout package. But it is already clear that this aid package will not save the country. It appears it will only delay a Greek insolvency -- and it will serve to create new hardships for the country's population.

It is time for politicians to admit that their carrot and stick strategy has failed. The idea that the country can be freed from its debt quagmire though austerity programs and aid pledges tied to conditions just isn't going to work. It won't even work if private creditors forgive part of the country's debt.

Broken Promises

For months, Greek government politicians as well as the so-called rescuers in Berlin, Paris and Brussels have all been deceiving themselves. Each supposedly final rescue package is followed by yet another, and austerity pledges aren't being adhered to.

That has a lot to do with domestic political considerations. German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy must convey to their voters that they have the situation and, especially the Greeks, under control. Meanwhile, the government in Athens must, out of self-preservation, limit the burdens to its own people as much as possible.

That's why both sides repeatedly agree to promises that everyone knows they will not be able to keep. The current rescue package, for example, officially agreed at the euro summit at the end of October, already has to be improved because it has become too small.

The Greek economy is shrinking faster than assumed. And the austerity plan Greece approved last summer under pressure from its euro-zone partners is also failing to live up to expectations. That's no wonder, either, because €50 billion of the €78 billion in total savings pledged was tied to proceeds from privatizations that, not surprisingly, have failed to generate the profits expected.

Out of Thin Air

The truth is that it must have been obvious to all parties concerned, including the Germans, that the figures were pulled out of thin air. What kind of investor would invest so much money in a country that, for the foreseeable future, will be stuck in a serious economic depression?

The supposed rescue efforts have culminated in the latest German proposals. The German government would like to send a "budget commissioner" to Athens to keep an eye on the Greeks. If that doesn't work, then the Germans also want, at the very least, to be able to impound Greek accounts if they don't pay back their debts through an escrow account.

The suggestions have justifiably provoked outrage. Quite apart from the humiliation these measures would entail for the Greeks, Athens would almost certainly find a way to circumvent them. In the end, Germany would wind up turning an entire nation into its enemy without even gaining anything.

Greece Must Go Bankrupt

Perhaps, the Greece rescuers on both sides of the negotiating table should try being honest for a change. Here's the truth: If the country is to lastingly reduce its mountain of debt and, at some point, be able to borrow money on the capital markets again, then it needs a comprehensive debt haircut. In other words, it needs to go bankrupt.

And it's not just private creditors who will have to forego a large part of their outstanding Greek debts. It is also other European countries and the European Central Bank. That would be expensive for taxpayers across Europe, and it would also be economically risky. Indeed, no one knows what consequences a Greek bankruptcy would have for other crisis-ridden countries like Portugal, Ireland or Italy. But at least it would be an honest solution.

Of course, things wouldn't stop there. The euro-zone states would also have to build a bigger firewall around the remaining crisis countries in order to prevent contagion. They would have to help some banks that get into trouble as a result of a debt cut. And they would have to provide Greece with a real opportunity to get back on its feet and start growing under its own steam -- in other words, a kind of Marshall Plan.

All this would be very expensive, and German taxpayers would also be forced to do what they have feared from Day One -- which is to pay for Greece. But this solution has two major advantages. The payments would be limited, and they would actually help Greece.

And unlike everything that has been negotiated up until now, the solution would also be worthy of being called a rescue package.

 

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Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:22 | 2134539 redpill
redpill's picture

Replace "Greek Rescue" with "EU"

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:23 | 2134542 jcia
jcia's picture

"It's time to end the paper ponzi."

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:27 | 2134557 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Greece needs to be cut loose and left to its own spendthrift devices.  And the banks that foolishly lent them money must take losses and heads of their executives must roll.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:49 | 2134647 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes, I would only add, that the fraud should be prosecuted on all levels.  Hhmm, greeks buring a german flag.  Let's see, I wonder how they would feel about germans burning greeks?  Wake up sheeple of greece, get your politicos before they get you!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:51 | 2134671 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

If the Germans are at all concerned about their purchasing power they would buy silver.  Oh, hey there Trav.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:02 | 2134705 Chris Jusset
Chris Jusset's picture

As ugly and distasteful as a Greek bailout is, it must happen, otherwise the house-of-cards will collapse.  It will happen no matter what.  And it will keep happening in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Italy, etc.  It doesn't matter how foolish bailouts are ... they will happen ...

This is what happens when a financial system is on its last leg: the focus becomes putting out one fire after the next . . . .  anything to keep the house of cards intact.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:07 | 2134757 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The only people who fear a collapse are those who know that their labor isn't worth shit.  I say bring on the collapse, restore the rule of law.  Bailouts without prosecuting the fraud simply allows the moral hazard to continue.  I can guarantee you one thing, in the well-armed societies that rise from the ashes people will be polite and compensation will find its way to people who are actually worth a shit.  The paper-pushers have forgotten that there is a very real cost for creating capital without creating real value, time to pay the piper.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:27 | 2134861 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3EUzV5_TUs&list=PL2E135D21E0288618&index=1&feature=plpp_video

A Rothschild Speaks - Listen Closely

1 World Currency!

We must de-construct to be able to capitalize on the Crisis!

 

The Sheep LOVE a Hero!! who will be the 1 World Currency Hero?

 

High unemployment implies the failure of the welfare state. In Sweden, unemployment

increased strongly in conjunction with the crisis of the 1990s, following which it has never

fallen below 6 per cent. In this situation, it is important to use every means to improve

conditions on the labour market and also to debate the role that could be played by monetary

policy in the fight against unemployment. But it is equally important that this debate is

realistic. From time to time, we have to remind ourselves that the possibilities monetary

policy has in this area have their limits. This is primarily a matter of influencing the more

short-term area of unemployment, which depends on economic activity, via effects on total

demand in the economy. The area of unemployment that also exists in balanced economic

cycles is harder to deal with. This unemployment is usually called long-term unemployment

or equilibrium unemployment. The degree of equilibrium unemployment is highly dependent

on how well the labour market is functioning, which is affected by policy areas other than

monetary policy. Placing an excessive focus on monetary policy in this context could easily

lead to the underlying problems on the labour market – and the solutions to them – not

receiving the discussion they deserve.

http://www.bis.org/review/r120124c.pdf

 

Henry Ford-

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand
our banking and monetary system, for if they did,
I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

 

well.. it looks like the polite blue blooded, blood suckers have voted Death for Greece.

That would be the presbyterian's NOT! the Jews that they bank roll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDCUJnoQL8s&feature=uploademail

Portfolio: Eurozone Prepares To Eject Greece by Stratfor

 

Eat the Rich!

The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

They have been eating You! and Yours!! for GENERATIONS!!!

Article I, Section 8, Clause 5, of the United States Constitution says

"Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof and of any foreign coins".

But that is not the case.

The United States government has no power to issue money, control the flow of money, or to even distribute it - that belongs to a private corporation registered in the State of Delaware - the Federal Reserve Bank.

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74DERg_aCI

Keiser Report: It's All Legal, Folks! (E246)

Uploaded by RussiaToday on Feb 7, 2012

In this episode, Max Keiser and co-host, Stacy Herbert, discuss the supercommittee that runs America, the perils of Draghi's "blitz" and the IMF turnaround on austerity for Greece. In the second half of the show, Max talks to Gonzalo Lira about austerity, printing and running.

KR on FB: http://www.facebook.com/KeiserReport

 

Signed, Christian Constitutionalist

P.S. Don't forget!! “See Something? Say Something!” and here is the link for you ---- > http://www.dhs.gov/files/reportincidents/see-something-say-something.shtm

 

DHS Home Grown Christians Trying to Protect the Constitution are now Terrorists Propaganda

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:54 | 2135048 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

TLDR

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:41 | 2135228 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

In spite of the fact that you tar entire religious, ethnic and philosophical groups with the same debasing brush, the flip side being equally distasteful "Death to America" (meaning you too, you filthy hegemonic infidel baby killer) you are right about the one world currency and the one world government. This however is prohibited by the Constitution ( I know, big fu.... deal) of the United States of America. It is bad enough the US is rapidly becoming totalitarian with central control of all. Allowing a united world government to give us orders is unthinkable. You would be assigned your work, your compensation, where you may live and number of children you are allowed. I don't think even the sheeple would let this happen.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 17:48 | 2135625 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Bingo!   Go back to Article I, Sec 8

Eat the Rich!

The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm

They have been eating You! and Yours!! for GENERATIONS!!!

Article I, Section 8, Clause 5, of the United States Constitution says

"Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof and of any foreign coins".

But that is not the case.

The United States government has no power to issue money, control the flow of money, or to even distribute it - that belongs to a private corporation registered in the State of Delaware - the Federal Reserve Bank.

    President George Washington* called this "usurpation" of Constitutional Powers, "the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed."   But how does this happen you ask, what is the trigger?  

    AND THE ANSWER IS:  By removing (usurpation) of the Constitutional Powers/Duties of the Congress (see Article I, Sec. 8), these powers are not only taken over by "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men*", but what has happened in the transfer (usurpation) of said powers, is that the PUBLIC FORUM, the foundation of our Constitution and the means by which the people exercise their power and authority over their government and rule said government, is now gone.   And not only gone, but reversed, and those "unprincipled men" who now control these Constitutional Powers/Duties, conduct their business in private well out of the PUBLIC FORUM, and now they exercise the power, not only over the government, but over the people.

   This is both the definition and difference between LIBERTY and TYRANNY.   And tyranny, a failed economic system, drains the wealth of the Nation in order to survive and maintain that segment of the population that supports this tyrannical government that sustains it.   This is the problem in America today.   And if we want to change it, we must force the Congress to restore and perform its Constitutional Powers/Duties, by returning all specified Powers/Duties, back to the Congress and back into the PUBLIC FORUM, where the people may once again rule and direct their government, rather than being ruled.

   See www.nar2012.com for a full explaination and the book, "New American Revolution: The Constitutional Overthrow of the United States Government", designed to empower all Americans to take back the Congress in 2012. 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:21 | 2134856 trav7777
trav7777's picture

No.  Greece MUST be cut loose.  Greece WILL NOT CHANGE.  And it sure as shit won't if there are no real consequences.

The banks can be saved and the bankers imprisoned even if Greece is cut loose.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:24 | 2134880 trav7777
trav7777's picture

nobody in the rest of the world who is a not a getrichquick speculator would EVER be interested in silver. 

Indians are typically poor...how do THEY "protect" their purchasing power?  GOLD.

Silver is loose change. 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:01 | 2135077 walküre
walküre's picture

Greeks are reacting exactly as they are programmed to do by the banksters propaganda.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:47 | 2134650 walküre
walküre's picture

LTRO is the firewall that article mentions. Why else would the banks have gobbled up the cheap ECB credit and parked the money with the ECB?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:55 | 2134688 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

But wait, you can't cut the welfare off to people who just don't know how to work, pay taxes and take care of themselves.  How can you blame Greeks for the value system of their culture...their demands are no different form the 99%'ers.  There is an old saying, "eat what you kill"...it's not the most pleasant way to do things but it sure keeps things simple.  Stop the favors, stop the manipulation, write laws that create a level playing field and ENFORCE them.  Shoot the lobbyists and the corrupt banksters and politicians and maybe we'll have a chance... 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:54 | 2134689 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I agree with you Trav.

And of course you realize that will destory the paper ponzi worldwide and then Silver will be accepted as money again...sending the price past Pluto. I'm glad we agree for once.

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 17:07 | 2135378 trav7777
trav7777's picture

nonfuckingsense.

Tally sticks are more likely than silver.  Fiat is here to stay.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:08 | 2134773 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

If I'm from Bavaria I'm telling Chancellor Miracle to take a hike. "turning Germany into a country of 62 million" is the solution. Move along!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:24 | 2134885 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Greece will be cut loose. It may (likely) take a revolution. The citizens will not accept it.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:26 | 2134901 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"And the banks that foolishly lent them money must take losses and heads of their executives must roll."

Wow, a cogent statment from trav I can get behind.  Party on Wayne! Party on Garth!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:26 | 2135168 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Cut them loose and pay for it ONCE.

OR

Bail them out now, and every time their bill is due, because they have no desire or infrastructure to pay their own debt.

They don't work and they don't collect taxes.

Germany KNOWS about austerity, they just went through it when they "reunified."

They KNOW it can be done, they KNOW it's painful, they have NO desire to pay for some other countries mistakes.....and I don't blame them.

Their problem, and the problem with the EU, is that the ONLY way out of this problem is to print money.

If you can't print your own money, then, everyone has to pay for the moneyprinting needed to offset the laggard nations. In previous decades they have enjoyed the benefits of "the union", now they are faced with it's shortcomings.

I think this is a "microcosm" of the global financial meltdown. My cure is to "wipe the slate clean", YES, forgive all debts, start over, square one....reset. The only ones to lose, then, are the banks and agencies that CAUSED this problem, and if they can't survive.......(see Greece).

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 17:11 | 2135394 trav7777
trav7777's picture

JFC, dude, eliminate all the debts?

So if I lent you money, I'm fucked?  I'd have to come kill you.

You cannot just say clean the slate because there are REAL PEOPLE who are owed REAL MONEY, even if they are bondholders of greek debt.  A lot of pensions would be wiped completely out by jubilee.  Usually only silverbugz are misanthropic enough to want something like this to happen, as they are by nature losers whose only chance to be tall is to have everyone else chopped off at the knees.

I say print and let the chips fall over time.

Wed, 02/08/2012 - 02:49 | 2137028 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

The other option is my brother lent me money that I can't pay back, so YOU have to....you're STILL fucked!

I go to Vegas and put it all on red, it comes up black, that's SOMEONE ELSES fault?

And the "real people owed real money", Whose "pensions would be wiped out" are the clowns burning down Athens, retired at 45, that never paid taxes. We have our own problems. It has never been properly explained to me why WE need to pay for the bad investments of bankers. On that note......where did the money go?

Money doesn't disappear.

In this recession,if TRILLION$$$ were "lost" then trillion$$ were "made". Where did the TRILLION$$$ go?

These paper losses were paper profits SOMEWHERE, or they never really existed. Wiping the slate clean would only have a negative impact on the businesses shuffling them. (If the blame is properly placed)

My "global" cure follows the same logic as the Greek cure, let the guilty party pay more now, instead of EVERYONE paying for generations.

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:24 | 2134545 AL_SWEARENGEN
AL_SWEARENGEN's picture

Or Greeks, rescued by the EU, rescued by the fed, rescued by American tax payers?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:26 | 2134552 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

...rescued by the aliens.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:30 | 2134575 AL_SWEARENGEN
AL_SWEARENGEN's picture

"...rescued by the aliens." So the annunaki again return to earth to swap our gold for a bailout?  Sounds more plausible than the constant propaganda out of the EU..

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:32 | 2134589 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

That was the plan all along... Didn't you hear?

But this time around... the "Kardashians" get to be the chosen people

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:37 | 2134617 urbanelf
urbanelf's picture

Or Greeks, rescued by the EU, rescued by the fed, rescued by American tax payers?

You mean American tax prayers.

Get it?  Get it?  GET IT?!?!?!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:30 | 2134921 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Red.

Wed, 02/08/2012 - 02:58 | 2137036 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

My greatest fear!

OR.......

The US bails out EVERY nation ALL their sovereign debt. We just have Uncle Ben print the world to a ZERO balance.....then WE declare bankruptcy!

No, wait, what am I thinking, we are all at ZERO, if no one owes anyone, how could you need bankruptcy?

Problem solved, I'm going to bed. Wake me if you need any more help.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:24 | 2134547 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Replace "EU" with "global central banking cartel ponzinomics".

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:30 | 2134581 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Exactly, as soon as one domino falls, they all do ;)

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:48 | 2134659 walküre
walküre's picture

Why didn't they fall when Argentina hit the brick wall? Or when Asia's debt crisis crippled those nations? The Ponzi Masters have had 2000 years to perfect their game.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:17 | 2134822 11b40
11b40's picture

Actually, over the last decade or so, the Ponzi Masters have made more progress and become more sophisticated than the past 2000 years combined.  They have many more exotic "instruments" to play with, unbelievable leverage, and warp speed vehicles.  Wheeee!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:19 | 2134836 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Derivatives, the world's most efficient wealth extraction device.

As for the Ponzi Masters, well, this too is their doing. Even they understand sustainability and mathematical certainty. So, they set up things to fail in a method to their benefit.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:30 | 2134577 Sharks with las...
Sharks with laser beams's picture

I am waiting for a final move higher in EURUSD and then I am gonna call my broker at Armada Markets and tell the guy to go all in and short euro with my FX account. This euro is a major fiasco. 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:54 | 2134690 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If they let Greece go and kick them out of the EU does that not strengthen the Euro? Then when they do it again does it not strengthen it again? Won't the end result be having a euro that is based on the strong remaining countries?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:08 | 2134767 walküre
walküre's picture

The Euro is not going to tank because the USD is worse. The haydays of Dollar hegemony are over and the world is looking for alternatives. Don't matter how much debt the Europeans have when their trading with Asia, Africa and South America is worth more than the US trade combined.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:55 | 2134674 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Der Spiegel used the phase 'tragicomedy,' bitchez!

That can only mean one thing: It's almost over.

Just file bankruptcy already, Greece+Portugal+Ireland+Spain+Italy+France.

Britain won't be far behind, especially if the British banking/financial sector upon which it's so reliant (courtesy of the House of Red Shield) can't get more many trillions of euros via a bailout of the EU, because neither German nor Greek (or PIIGS+France) politicians want to be burned at the stake, in the wake of said bailout, with purchasing power falling at a rapid and precipitous rate across Europe as the ECB-CERN printer pushes beyond the boundaries of BernanCommodus Ponzinomics.

Then again, bakers won't have this, as they do own the 'sovereign states' and their 'sovereign citizens,' in reality. Can't let old man Mayer Amschel & his progeny down. He had the knack for enslaving peoples' children and telling them it was for their own good, as he stuffed his gout-sticken face with even more of the finest meats & cheeses.

So print away, bitchez!

I can see it now:  European so-called leaders/Central bankers telling the populace that 'tis merely a flesh wound (akin to The Black Knight in The Holy Grail) as petrol/diesel soar beyond the €5 per liter level (or 19 per gallon), foods and energy prices quadruple,  and a whole new slew of taxes and fees take the remaining pound of flesh out European backsides.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:03 | 2134739 walküre
walküre's picture

And then they complain that nobody loves them. Go figure.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:02 | 2134729 arcos
arcos's picture

Replace "Greek Rescue" with "US"

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:25 | 2134541 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

The moment approaches (and approaches, and approaches...)

When does the gold standard get reinstituted?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:56 | 2134695 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

By the people first obviously. Do you think any of these assclowns will do it voluntarily?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:24 | 2134548 EmileLargo
EmileLargo's picture

JA!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:25 | 2134551 redpill
redpill's picture

Is this like one of those exponential curves in geometry that approaches a line but never actually gets to it?  I never wuz 2 gud wit teh maths

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:30 | 2134578 valley chick
valley chick's picture

since they like their drama in the EU I look at it like a soap opera...first one to come to mind.."Days of Our Lives...which is in its 47th year.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:39 | 2134622 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

... infinitesimals, invented by Archimedes. Damn' Greeks.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:46 | 2135015 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

That's it !  Hire some non-Greek negotiators to do the deal. 

The problem all along is the Greeks are caught in their own Zeno Paradox.

Break the mold.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 23:20 | 2136679 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Legend has it that Alexander used his sword to cut the Gordian knot...

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:21 | 2135149 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes, at one point (a long point) the predominant nation on the planet in all aspects of what we call culture.

Archimedes was able to calculate the length of a spiral without the calculus, which was an astonishing feat.  However, he used "indivisibles" and the method of exhaustion, which was invented by Antiphon.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:53 | 2134681 MisesFTW
Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:26 | 2134554 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The gold spike indicates that the smart money already agrees with the author's thesis.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:58 | 2134703 graymnzrc
graymnzrc's picture

Isn't Gold trending down on the one year chart?

We could see 1500 before we see 1900. Yes, today is 2/7/2012 and at 1:56 pm it is trading at 1750.

Just looking at trendlines.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:27 | 2134560 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

OMFG just default already.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:26 | 2134899 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

are we half-way there yet ?  Every day I keep asking myself that. <Zeno>

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:28 | 2134561 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Default is the solution, not the problem.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:31 | 2134923 vh070
vh070's picture

Yeah, end it already!  Enough is enough.  Default and let's deal with the next problem.  And the next.  And the next….

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:28 | 2134564 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

I accidently fell off the ship

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:53 | 2134682 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Old Joke!

"What happened then?"

Bugs, "I drowned, of course."

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:24 | 2134874 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

the money could have “vaporized” as a result of chaotic trading at MF Global.

or there is the South Park classic "And It's Gone".

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:28 | 2134565 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

 

 

Time to end or reset everything with the word "bank"...

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:28 | 2134569 Conman
Conman's picture

NO matter waht De Spiegel says, Merkels hands are tied. She's all in with a gut shot straight draw. And the river is.........

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:51 | 2134673 walküre
walküre's picture

We will see if she's bought and paid for by the banking cartels or if she's a representative of Germany's national interests. She pretty much declared already that she'd agree to anything Sarkozy was saying or doing.

I want Germans to realize what's being done to them - again. They're on the hook for billions and billions of Euros payable to a banking elite that has raped and pillaged Germany for at least 2 centuries.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:59 | 2134714 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Unless the Greeks "voluntarily" leave the euro. Then Merkel can say it wasn't the Germans that pushed them out but the Greeks that left by their own choice.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:18 | 2134833 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

I wonder how much it will cost to get them to voluntarily leave?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:33 | 2134939 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

I am sure a smart Greek lawyer/politician will work the angle that Greece never entered the EU in the first place...since the Greek entry was done under "false pretense".  So since Greece was never a member of the EU...then leaving is unnecessary (legally).  The next day we may suddenly realize that Greece has been independently operating all along in the EU and drachmas will again be in the streets of The Parthenon.

Like an annullment.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:04 | 2134744 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

NO matter waht De Spiegel says, Merkels hands are tied. She's all in with a gut shot straight draw. And the river is.........

 

I think it's more she hit the river and the Greeks want the Germans to forgive the pot.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:30 | 2134579 shushup
shushup's picture

Greek Bastards! Germans love the idea of working till 65 to pay for greeks to retire at 53.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:34 | 2134865 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Oh dear, is it "divide and conquer by spreading racism, and by now 6 months old MYTHS"-time again, in psyops land?

Reality to paid bankster crackwhore: That stuff about greeks retiring at 53, is a myth... it started out in some US news channel in a single show (don't remember which one again), and then got imitated all across MSM, and sheeple (including ZH-sheeple, and yes including famously Jon Stewart) over and over, with NO ONE EVER CHECKING THE NUMBERS.

What are the numbers? The numbers WERE (you know, BEFORE the austerity) average retirement at about 60 years, which is totally boringly average in europe, and it also is the average retirement age of germany, BEFORE it moved it up in the early euro days, as one of the many measures to bring wages down, and engage in a price-war with the rest of europe.

Basically, greek retirement age about 6 months ago, was in the same state as most other european nations. And NOW after the imposed austerity, it has been raised to about the same as germany - that is, about the highest in europe!

(I won't go into the idiotic premise, that retirement age nowadays had anything to do with total gov spending.... you know, just because you force people to work longer, it doesn't magically make an equivalent amount of additional jobs appear at the same wage.... increasing retirement age mainly just does three things: 1. It increases the total demand of jobs, thus increasing the deficit of jobs. 2. That in turn puts more pressure on wages 3. it slightly shifts the age balance of unemployed, from old to young.

Oh wait, now i DID bust this myth too, sorry)

And before you distract with another attempt of painting greeks "lazy" and greedy.... shall i state the average weekly workhours, as well as the average pay? Just asking, because the former too is about average in europe, and the later is among the LOWEST in europe.

Here's the bottom line: The ponzi wants you to believe, that greece is bancrupt, just because their are lazy and greedy, so that you believe that it is the greek people's work ethics that has bancrupted the country.... why do they want you to believe this racist bullshit? Two reasons:

1. It distracts you from what and who actually bancrupted the country (germany's price-war and corruption. Or perhaps, i shouldn't say "germanys pricewar", because it is not as if the german people wanted it..... just like the greeks now massprotest, germans also massprotested when the VERY SAME stuff was done to them early in the emu, to discount wages).

2. It justifies further exploitation of those who didn't create this mess, by those who did create the mess.

 

Because you know, all the problems only are there, because we aren't doing the things that caused the problems, hard enough. Bailout 1 not working? Must be that we haven't bailouted hard enough. Ponzi broke again? Must be that the population isn't sacrificing itself hard enough yet. You see, this is all the populations fault.... they just haven't sacrificed themselves enough to the ponzi, those lazy slaves.... and that is why everything is broken, you see?

So, you know....

Go

Fuck

Yourself

Arschloch.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:49 | 2134970 walküre
walküre's picture

divide and conquer by spreading racism

You know who is good at that? The group that benefits when two fractions go at each other's throats because they loaned them the money to build their weapons.

Couldn't possibly be that that group is telling ignorant Americans that all Muslims are terrorists, could it? Now America is on the hook for billions spent on a stupid "war against terrorism" and not much to show for. 10 years since the beginning of that war and America is close to being broke - again.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 17:51 | 2135640 Mike North
Mike North's picture

Could you possibly post links that verify these facts. Thank you

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:23 | 2135155 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Greeks retire when they get jobs.  Their idea of working is lounging in cafes all day while drawing a paycheck

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:30 | 2134586 battle axe
battle axe's picture

The Fatherland has spoken now bow dogs. If I was a German I would be a tad pissed off right now, Merkel is toast.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:31 | 2134588 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'll believe it when I see it. Two years of this crap only to come to the same conclusion that we already knew.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:38 | 2134621 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Agreed. But the elastic band is wearing thin. Little hairline fractures are starting to appear everywhere.

Perhaps they were always there, and just not visible?

The corruption is going on a bit longer than two years.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:53 | 2134677 walküre
walküre's picture

Default and Exit are more and more common in todays political language regarding Greece, Germany and the Euro.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:32 | 2134592 Catullus
Catullus's picture

What's better is that you're in the hook for 36% of your GDP, but you don't know exactly who is negotiating on your behalf ever. You can't vote the bums out, you can't demonstrate in front of some building, you can't petition anyone. You've lost all link to what you pay in taxes and what those taxes actually go to. You have a financial authority completely unaccountable, anonymous, and unlimited in scope of authority. In short, you've got yourselves financial totalitarianism. Your only means of protest is to buy gold and silver and let the wealth transfer from fiat to you.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:26 | 2134888 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

You've lost all link to what you pay in taxes and what those taxes actually go to. You have a financial authority completely unaccountable, anonymous, and unlimited in scope of authority. In short, you've got yourselves financial totalitarianism

 

That is the State of the German Republic under Angela Merkel. It appears that German democracy always takes a dive into the black hole whenever the capital is in Berlin. Politicians go completely bonkers in Berlin with grandiosity seeping out of their posteriors. Bonn was the capital of a very successful German Republic where people felt they had some say in their own lives. Since Bonn was abandoned -- thanks to Schauble organising casting votes of the FDP - the situation has deteriorated to the point where Germans may need to consider Art 20 (4) of the Grundgesetz 4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:32 | 2134593 Jason T
Jason T's picture

1345 Venice all over again.. welcome to our new dark age.  

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:34 | 2134602 Auburn
Auburn's picture

Haa haaaa ha - Reuters: A meeting of Greek political leaders to discuss a 130-billion-euro ($172 billion) bailout scheduled for Tuesday has been postponed to Wednesday, a Greek government official said.

One party official, who declined to named, said the delay was because the leaders had yet to receive a draft of the bailout agreement being drawn up by the government and the country's foreign lenders.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:02 | 2134728 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Duh. When you owe $172 million, you can't afford to buy new toner cartridges.

Shake that cartridge Papademos! Shake it baby. Get another print job out of it.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 23:26 | 2136699 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So, "the check is lost in the mail", is the best excuse they could come up with?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:35 | 2134603 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

So the three years was nothing more then "buying time" for the inevitable.

"There is less risk now," Mr Rutte said. "It is in our interest that Greece remain [in the eurozone] and to achieve that it must do all it has promised to do but if that does not work out, then we are stronger now than a year and a half ago."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16923706

 

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:35 | 2134607 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Sisyphus...

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:35 | 2134608 Biggvs
Biggvs's picture

Except the article wants Germany to keep throwing even more money at Greece.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:36 | 2134610 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

When do these people get it? All they talk is more firewalls, bigger firewalls, more this, more that. It should be pretty obvious to all that eurozone DOES NOT WORK as it is. The price of this political utopia is already massive and it's not gonna change. No matter what they do they will always find themselves inside the economic prison that the euro is. Continuing the same insanity will just add up to the costs and make the problems bigger for everyone but will achive nothing good. That's the reality.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:52 | 2134678 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

An enormously profitble prison for the people who run it.

And the inmates don't mind cause "the coffee's pretty good".

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:18 | 2134830 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Firewalls only work (temporarily) against fire - not explosions

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:21 | 2134858 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

It COULD work....just get Greece and Spain and Portugal and....so on...to do what the Chinese did...get rid of the safety net, embrace the free market and live within their (GDP) means. Of course we would need to get 'Capitalism' to straighten itself out too....we'd need the real deal and not what we actually have. Imagine all the people, living with what they produce, consuming less than that and leaving a bit for future generations....in theory that should work and would if we did not have politicians eating everyones lunch.

Wed, 02/08/2012 - 03:54 | 2137081 honestann
honestann's picture

Yes, debt-free frugal living works.  It works much better in fact.  I left home after high school with $2000 in savings from odd jobs and summer jobs, never borrowed a penny, and lived what most would consider a frugal life even after I started making a reasonable income.  Now I'm in vastly better financial shape than most people who earned twice as much per year as me, or far more.  They're deep in debt and I've got a several pounds of gold burried in the boonies.  And all the while I lived a more comfortable life than the vast majority of humans have for 99% of human history.

At the same time, I've been royally screwed.  I should have enjoyed a much more luxurious life, and had more money to fund my projects.  Why?  Because the world of today is soaked to the core with debt.  When debt is freely available, the prices of products are much higher because so many people only ask whether they CAN buy a product (on credit card or with mortgage), not whether they can AFFORD a product.

When debt is not available, people CAN buy a product only when they have SAVED enough to pay the full price of that product, plus all their other expenses.  In that world, prices for most goods are VASTLY lower.  Those are the prices that those of us who function without debt deserve.  Sadly, we too must pay the grossly inflated prices caused by the debt-gone-wild world we live in.

Humans survived and prospered without debt when they had no electricity, no machines, no modern technology.  In other words, they survived and prospered when they had no way to be even remotely as efficient and productive as people today.  Yet people today say they cannot survive without debt?  Give us a break!

Of course, they are partly justified (though only partially).  First, they've driving the price of goods up grossly because they allow banksters to run that completely corrupt scam known as fiat money... not to mention fractional reserve practices on top of that.  Second, they allow multiple layers of predators DBA government to steal any percentage of their productivity the predators wish to confiscate.  So yeah, this needs to be stopped too.

But the bottom line is, what works BEST... by FAR best... is no fiat, no debt, no taxes.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:36 | 2134613 youngman
youngman's picture

Its kind of like watching your kids playing in the yard...but now dinner is ready and you have to call them in....the kids are the politicians and the bankers....and its time to quit playing and come in for dinner....its fun to watch them play..but they have to quit now....Greece get a life...Bankers lose some money....and the rest of us...lets stand for something

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:00 | 2134719 Wakanda
Wakanda's picture

I don't see how kids having fun compares with sociopaths lying, cheating and stealing.  Folks are suffering because of these broken promises.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:36 | 2134614 Fastback
Fastback's picture

AT LAST! Some sanity from GERMANY! Now, if they can get MERKOZY head out fo their asses!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:41 | 2134628 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Every single day, every single minute we ride closer to the end.

And it will not end well.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:43 | 2134633 falak pema
falak pema's picture

The Greece bail out is NOT the issue...the BAnk bail out is.... Why do MSM talk about Greek Oligarchical shenanigans, all concocted by Banks,  and not about the iceberg which has hit the Euro Titanic? 

 

Oh, if only the Perpherals just disappeared! Hahahaha...if only the banks hadn't dipped their greedy peckers in every sauce and every jelly pot. 

Put the pyramid with its point head-up and we won't talk about the small dent on top, but the cracks in the foundation. Then we can talk about what counts. 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:59 | 2134708 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Precisely!!  The talks have not been about the greek people, these talks are in regard to the creditors and who gets what.  

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:09 | 2134766 resurger
resurger's picture

Laws...

They devour the whole fucking cake and still want more!

They can never be bloated!

Default is for the poor, not the rich

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:46 | 2134645 resurger
resurger's picture

What's the opposite of Flash Crash? Is it Flash Spike (Ratchet)

Am just watching my ticker, it jumped 70 cents in a split second?! HOW??!!!

Robo or a big Investor?!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:47 | 2134648 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Greece Laos Party Chief Questions Legality Of Troika Measures [Dow Jones]

 

Lol, any minute now. Aaaaaany minute.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:48 | 2134654 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

(Reuters) - A meeting of Greek political leaders to discuss a 130-billion-euro ($172 billion) bailout scheduled for Tuesday has been postponed to Wednesday, a Greek government official said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-greece-idUSTRE8120HI2012020...

them is some funny motha fuckers...

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:59 | 2134710 resurger
resurger's picture

Why dont they postpone it till 2013 and keep the party going ...

Am becoming an oracle, i can tell you the results

SUCCESS

 

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:51 | 2134672 tobinajwels
tobinajwels's picture

I am new to ZeroHedge and I find that ZeroHedge has it right all along. I do have a question I'd like to pose to the readers, forgive me if this is a stupid question:

Why doesn't Goldman Sachs bail out Greece? Weren't they the ones that manipulated Greece into being into the Euro to begin with? I know they won't bail them out but why isn't there more outrage at Goldman Sachs? Any response would be appreciatied.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:54 | 2134686 resurger
resurger's picture

Hello and welcome Tobinajewls!

I read that they have bought some CDS's and Debt there, but am not sure! someone should respond to you regarding the GS Fuckers

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:02 | 2134726 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yep, Goldman Sachs has set up a game called "heads I win, Tails you lose" and is expecting everyone to let them get away with it.  Think about it, it worked in the U.S. with housing and AIG, why wouldn't they expect to get away with it in Europe?  The moral hazard has long since been released and nothing short of a world war will re-establish the rule of law.  Same old keynesian conclusion, know your history and hedge accordingly.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:10 | 2134788 resurger
resurger's picture

WORD!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:57 | 2134701 hairball48
hairball48's picture

Greece can't be "bailed out"...by anyone. The Greeks are broke. They need to default, get out of the Euro, and spend the next 10-20 years rebuilding some semblance of an economy.

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:00 | 2134718 walküre
walküre's picture

Someone should tell the Greek. Unfortunately the Greek are like all other people that don't want to look close enough into the history of their debt and spending binge. Sure, Goldman Sachs enabled them but now the anger is directed at Germany which wants to shut of the juice and string the Greeks out cold turkey. Those bad, bad Germans.

Everyone knows exactly why the Greeks have this debt and which group benefited tremendously from making the loans possible in the first place. They've been doing it for over 2000 years and know their game. This Greek blip on the radar screen won't change a thing and maybe there's a progrom in store somewhere from somebody, but in the end they will come out collectively on top of everyone else.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:04 | 2134743 battle axe
battle axe's picture

Because Goldman's reputation sucks so bad, no one has anything left to say, you can only call some people "soulless fucks" so many times, everyone has heard it over and over. Also Goldman has their people all over our fine Govt, so those weasels in DC will never touch GS.  

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:12 | 2134796 UGrev
UGrev's picture

They manipulated them into a position where it was easy for them to suck them dry. The well isn't completely dry yet. Still more money to be made off of sloth. 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:46 | 2135250 rustymason
rustymason's picture

There is still plenty of blood to be drained from the West -- this giant suckin' sound could go on for quite awhile yet. Look what happened to the peasants under the USSR. 50 million murdered by hostile foreigners, all in the name of progress. Haven't the Greeks even watched Dr. Shivago? 

Those in charge are very clever devils. They own the money supply, the government, the spy network, and the media. They have the military brass under their thumb and the politicians in their underwear. 

The native populations have been dumbed down to TurdLevel 3 and their countries have been flooded with foreigners who are only interested in what the government can give them. Revolt? Not for a very long time. Besides, even the best people will put up with quite a lot before they are ready to stand up for themselves. Our situation is much worse. The current populations wouldn't know what to do with freedom if it dropped in their laps. People tend to get the government they deserve, and we are reaping what our parents have sown.

Brace yourselves for a very long, hard ride, Tavarish.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:30 | 2134917 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

If there was a penny to be made by bailing Greece out GS would be there.  Obviously there isn't so they wait in the waters with the rest of the sharks.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 17:32 | 2135523 Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

One simple reason might be that whatever Goldman's involvement with Greece was,  at the time it was 100% LEGAL -  in case someone still doesn't understand let me repeat - it was 100% LEGAL.  Any other questions?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:54 | 2134687 hairball48
hairball48's picture

I'm 1/4 German. I can't believe how fucking dumb my "ancestors" are. Don't they "get it"? yet? That they're being robbed by the PIIGS!!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:56 | 2134692 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

" I know they won't bail them out but why isn't there more outrage at Goldman Sachs? Any response would be appreciatied."

alright ya'll...be gentle...he seems sincere....

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:56 | 2134694 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

MY OH MY THEATRE STILL GOING STRONG :))))) TOMORROW OR TOMORROW, EH??

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:01 | 2134723 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." - F. Zappa

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:58 | 2134704 zippy_uk
zippy_uk's picture

YOU pretend to save OUR country from insolvency so YOU can save YOUR banks.

WE will pretend to accept YOUR bailout in which WE will string YOU along for as long and as much cash or writeoffs as possible to SAVE OUR COUNTRY

May the loser with the winning cards win. Bad luck Germany

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 14:59 | 2134717 zippy_uk
zippy_uk's picture

This is not the sovreign insolvency we are looking for...

You can carry on your bailout... 

Move along...

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:00 | 2134721 GoldenGal
GoldenGal's picture

I have some nice thirty year greek bonds for sale. I am also selling matches at twice the price....

INDEPENDENCE DAY FOR GREECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:03 | 2134742 Falcon15
Falcon15's picture

Caught between the Scylla and Charibdis. Classic.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:06 | 2134752 onlooker
onlooker's picture

in other words, a kind of Marshall Plan.----------

 

Tyler’s suggestion makes sense, for those who are old enough to remember the post WW2 rebuilding of Europe and Japan. The problem is that the contents of those nations were destroyed, roads, buildings, homes, industry, cars, everything. The USA had used its time and money for the war effort and goods were in short supply as well as housing.

 

Goods and services were needed World Wide.

 

We are in a place and time where there is a scale down of goods and services affordability. There must be demand to grow and there must be money or credit to the little guy for him to buy (after he has a job).

 

The concept of jobs from a service sector economy is not working for California and others. There must be agriculture and manufacturing. For those who have lived beyond their means, no matter the reasons for over extension, there must be a day of reckoning.

 

Rather than view Greece as an isolated problem, leaders need to focus on the universal problem and impact in order to attempt to model a way to deal with the problem when it gets to-- say the shore of the USA. Not to say the Greek problem is our problem, or the problem of the World. But huge debt, corruption, high unemployment, and government obligation to the citizens with retirement and medical coverage does have some communality.

 

The US made a huge blunder when the USSR fell and left Mother Russia on her knees. Russia would be a good friend to have fight now. The strategic position of Greece should not be overlooked if that Nation fell into the wrong hands.

 

There may not be a solution. But there is no second choice.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:17 | 2134820 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Welcome to the post growth world dude.  While I agree that "The concept of jobs from a service sector economy is not working for California and others. There must be agriculture and manufacturing. For those who have lived beyond their means, no matter the reasons for over extension, there must be a day of reckoning." even those trades rely on exponential growth to work in the current system (ou don't make it as a farmer in this system selling the same amount of product for the same price every year, especially with energy and health costs going up).  Exponential equations are indeed a bitch and the energy flux (big difference between flux and availability) can not continue to increase in this fashion.  The whole system must be replaced, call it a fourth turning or whatever you want, we are at a crossroads where the 0.1 percent who benefit from status quo will do anything to keep the system from crumbling.  The rule of law becomes more of an illusion every day.  History is rthyming, hedge accordingly, nothing else one can do really.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:36 | 2134962 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

On CNBC Santelli was discussing the "shrinkage" in the workforce.

Shrink.

Vaporize.

Default.

Depression.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:09 | 2134775 stopcpdotcom
stopcpdotcom's picture

Reminds me of the old British farce character actor Robertson Hare whose catch-phrase was "Oh Calamity!".

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:25 | 2134891 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

How do you say "KY" in German Sprach?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:53 | 2135041 walküre
walküre's picture

Schmalz

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:37 | 2134963 Jacks Cold Sweat
Jacks Cold Sweat's picture

Jesus titty fuckin Christ , just stop with this bullshit and get your facts right before you talk shit again about THE Greeks .

Let me shed some light to your inflated asses from the increasingly  rotten city of Athens.

1- Greeks don't retire at 53. Greeks work their asses off. And they get shit. Except from those who work in the Public sector.They get shit too but shit's permanent.

2-German tax payers don't pay Greeks to retire at 53!!!!
THEY FEED THE POOL WHO BUYS THEIR PRODUCTS.

If the South can't buy German cars and German food,  the Wurst will come to Wurst.

What if  Greeks stop  buying their crooked submarines  ?

All the above extend to the whole South since all the Mediterranean is  Germany's market.

 

3-And last but not least, seriously , has anybody heard of the Siemen's Scandal ?

It takes two to tango.

 

Wed, 02/08/2012 - 03:33 | 2137061 honestann
honestann's picture

Wow!  What a great business model.  We produce products, then lend boatloads of money to lazy unproductive bums to purchase our products!  What a brilliant idea!  That way we can work our butts off, they can sip iced tea at the beach, and everyone is happy!  Why doesn't everyone do that?

Wait.  Everyone DOES do that, because today we have a world of 100% fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasty, fractional-reserve tainted toilet-paper debt "money" that the predator-class of banksters can create in unlimited quantity at zero cost to them.  In fact, they get to keep the interest on the loans they grant, and get to keep all the goods they buy with their zero cost to create toilet paper.

But freaking hell.  Why not lend all the money to ourselves to buy our products?  That way we have the money AND the goods.  Hmmmm.

FIAT == FRAUD

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:39 | 2134965 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

icon check

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:39 | 2134976 Jacks Cold Sweat
Jacks Cold Sweat's picture

and good luck paying 4900$ for a Big Mac in 2015 byotch

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:38 | 2134973 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Greece should say fuck you to the banks and the TROIKA and take their own destiny in their own hands.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:40 | 2134979 Lord Peter Pipsqueak
Lord Peter Pipsqueak's picture

This article reminds me of the indignant screams of those on ZH and elsewhere who said the German people would never stand by and allow the ECB to monetise the debts of the European country governments,and now they are doing just that,now we are supposed to believe that the German public will leap out of there slumbers and prevent the Ecb giving Greece bailout after bailout without getting the commensurate cuts in their budgets to compensate. Puhhhhleeeeese, just don't.

The Germans have got as much say in how their country or the European Union is run,or the economic policies of the ECB as I have in England over the Treasury or the Bank of England, or you guys in the US have over the crazies in Washington and the Fed,monetization and bailouts will continue ad infinitum.

As long as banksters control the puppets in their respective governments,nothing is going to change,if you want to know what the next likely course of events for a country's economy is,just ask how will the banks benefit most,then apply the necessary policies/options to the scenarios you are faced with.In the case of the Euro area,unlimited money printing for insolvent banks to buy govt debt and unlimited bailouts for insolvent governments,USA:unlimited QE/ MBS,treasuries,bank bailouts,zero interest rates for decades,UK: unlimited QE/gilts purchases,further bank bailouts, zero interest rates for decades.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:20 | 2135144 Mark123
Mark123's picture

Too true.  But at some point the currency collapses....and never before (at least in the last few generations) has this sort of fiat frenzy happened in all major economies.

 

If I just knew when the collapse will occur!  My point has been all along that the banking elite is in control of that event and will profit enormously (as they did in the 1930's).

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:43 | 2134990 arcos
arcos's picture

End of the Greek rescue = Euro is rallying

End of the Portugal and Spain rescue = Euro is going to the moon

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:52 | 2135030 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Italy will be one large boulder for Sisyphus and Zeno to deal with (on alternate days). 

Then there will be the spaghetti, lasagna, red wine...and bunga parties.

Should stretch out for another 5 years.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:46 | 2135011 arcos
arcos's picture

Germany is the centre of the western industrial world. All technical innovations come from Germany. Well.... no Iphones and no Facebook. Zuckerberg for president!

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:54 | 2135043 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Germany:

Book Printing

Combustion Engine

Auto

Television

Jet Propulsion

Computer

USA:

Ponzi

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:58 | 2135064 walküre
walküre's picture

USA:

Ponzi

Propaganda

Central "Intelligence" Agency

Wars

Synthetic Food

Mass Diseases

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:35 | 2135203 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

USA:  Whips ass
Germany:  ashtray

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:01 | 2135073 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

How could I forget

Germany:

Airplane

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:56 | 2135051 walküre
walküre's picture

One must distinguish between true technical innovations for the greater benefit of all and those mainly US military and government alphabet intelligence office innovations that were amended to "suit" civilian applications.

If you think GOOG, AAPL and FB are a boon to makind.. think again.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:54 | 2135046 zippy_uk
zippy_uk's picture

Der Spiegel is actually WRONG.

It is not time to end anything. Everything will continue as "normallacy" until the process call Democracy involving Elections.

At that point, everything will end ... all at once... and with a bit of a bang..

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 15:57 | 2135056 yogibear
yogibear's picture

PIIGS,  take everything you can from the EU before you default. Max out your EU credit card and then default. Charge it to Germany.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:06 | 2135097 st0n3dCabbag3
st0n3dCabbag3's picture

"Of course, things wouldn't stop there. The euro-zone states would also have to build a bigger firewall around the remaining crisis countries in order to prevent contagion."

If they'd done that with Greece in the first place then a default would probably have been avoided.

If Greece defaults, then the size of the next firewall required to save the Euro would simply be unachievable. German taxpayers would have lost so much money trying to save Greece that an even greater contribution to save the rest of the Eurozone would be unacceptable. Even if one was agreed it would be the same as the last 2 years; with policy makers too slow to react to the changes within the financial markets and offering too little too late.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:10 | 2135115 Mark123
Mark123's picture

I keep hearing how the Germans won't stand for ECB printing, Eurobonds etc.  Well tell me how LTRO is anything other than printing on a massive scale?

 

German monetary policy is being run by bankers.  Gee....how did that work out before?

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:08 | 2135100 Mark123
Mark123's picture

How funny....the greek rescue is to enable the greeks to borrow more money.  So how do we do this?  Easy, write off the old debt (who pays?) and then issue new debt.  And people are treating this seriously???????????

 

Here's a radical idea....how about write off the old debt and then cut off Greece from any further assistance.  If they want to borrow more, then let private investors fund them (with no taxpayer backing from IMF, ECB, Fed Reserve etc etc).

 

What a joke this world has become.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:08 | 2135108 loftgroovv
loftgroovv's picture

Sorry, but its time for the Greek to take it up the bum.

 

It wouldn't be the first time for most of the men anyway.

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 16:15 | 2135130 pain_and_soros
pain_and_soros's picture

A non-voluntary default triggers a CDS event...

so whoever has CDS on Greek debt (i.e., Greek bondholders & speculators) has the right to collect the full amount of the Greek bonds owing from the CDS insurer/issuer (Goldman Sachs, AIG, or whoever)

Goldman Sachs or AIG, however, may in turn have bought their own Greek debt CDS insurance to cover their Greek exposure...so whichever issuer they bought their CDS from is next in line on the payout hook.

This may have multiple iterations...making it very difficult to figure out beforehand who ultimately is at risk of paying out on the Greek CDS default event and more importantly, whether they are able to make good on such payments...(see AIG in 2008...)

If the entity with the net exposure to Greece can't make good on the CDS...well...whoever they sold it to may have trouble making good payment to whoever they sold their Greek CDS to, who will then have trouble making good payment to whoever they sold it to...until you finally get to the Greek bondholders who hedged their Greek bonds with CDS ...who may find out that their CDS insurance is useless because the ultimate counterparty (which likely isn't the entity they bought the CDS from) can't make good on the payment...

So an involuntary Greek default very likely could trigger the collapse of the CDS market, including the financial institutions who substantially comprise it (95% happens to be attributable to the big US banks) as well total loss to Greek bondholders (i.e., Greek pension funds, etc.) and a few speculators who likely will be made the scapegoats...

Obviously, a collapse of the CDS market means the collapse of the big US financial instituions and essentially the US financial system & its currency...since I don't expect a Wall St bailout this time will work to buy more time as it did in 2008, since it would put the US in the same (or worse) position as Greece.

Europe will also obviously suffer greatly, especially the PIIGS, whether they decide to stay in Europe or not...

There will be no more free lunches - in fact there may be little food as a result of the ensuing chaos...

Unfortunately, the debts are simply too large to think that some form of extreme austerity would work...so printing will be the attempted solution...that will be seen as the fraud it is....

Got your physical gold yet?

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 02/07/2012 - 17:02 | 2135348 lairdwd
lairdwd's picture

50% is not a mind blowing majority. If the number were closer to 80%, I doubt Frau Merkel would have had the political cover to greece the short term skids this pop will give so to speak.

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