This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Spiegel's Reaction To G-Pap's Referendum Announcement

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Presented without commentary.

Read the full article here.

h/t Siri

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:26 | 1832104 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Going down baby!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:37 | 1832172 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

hint hint angela

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832191 eureka
eureka's picture

hint hint Obama - next stop DC - US national-socialism next to go

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:46 | 1832223 redpill
redpill's picture

We can pretend longer with our currency.  We'll be the last and largest domino.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832239 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Assuming, of course, that there isn't another five MF Globals around the corner.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832249 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

or he was just wanted to goose his nest egg by adding some rocket fuel to his shorts,

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:50 | 1832591 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

If I were a Greek I would vote for the rescue secure in the knowledge that I'm not paying a dime.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1832894 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's still there.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:06 | 1832318 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

If by national Socialism you mean Nazi-like Fascism I agree. If you mean Socialism like the Danish or Swedish have...well lay off the crack pipe. All this talk of Marxism and Socialism about Obama is fucking laughable at best.

He's a Fascist, a FASCIST marked by extreme militarism, propaganda and destruction of civil rights and democratic initiatives. Also the downfall of a Republic. He's just like Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Reagan before him. Really you have to go back to someone who got a bullet in the dome to find a non-fascist (hint the 48 year anniversary of his death is coming up). It's what Eisenhower was warning us all about.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:14 | 1832370 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

"He's just like Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Reagan before him.

You err in putting Herbert Walker Bush in with the rest.  He lost the election trying to do what was best for the country like close loopholes and raise taxes.  The rest of them everyone, who knows anything anyway, agrees with.

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:18 | 1832397 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

LOL, an HW supporter? You must have bought into all the post administration propaganda. He lost the election due to Ross Perot splitting his base. Period.

Are you forgetting Iran-Contra, Continuity of Government, Shadow Government etc. etc.?

I would rate HW Bush and all FIVE of his terms (Reagan post being shot, his "one term", plus both of Bush II's) as being the MOST Fascist of all of the presidencies back to JFK.

Remember Cheney was secretary of defense under Bush and the first Gulf War was built on lies very similar to the WMD scam under Bush II. Read between the lines the Bush family is one of the most responsible of all families for the past 30 years of governance. HW Bush is the patriarch and architect of that families dominance during that period.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:24 | 1832431 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

I should probably include the Clinton years as well due to the cocaine coming through Mena Arkansas during Iran/Contra which was about control of the cocaine supply as much as anything. He boosted the drug war to make sure they had total control of the drug supply during that time. Gary Webb wrote about it and Skull and Bones buddy Kerry refused to investigate the drug aspects of Iran-Contra.

Therefore, you can say since leaving the directorship of the CIA, HW Bush and his Rockefeller backers (See Nelson Rockefeller threatening Reagan to take HW as VP or he would tilt the election to Carter) had more to do with the past 30 years than anyone. HW thrived in the shadows and SUCKED as a frontman. Learn REAL history and it all becomes quite clear.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:20 | 1832404 Confused
Confused's picture

You err in believing there is a difference between any of them. Bush family is just as suspect as any.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:23 | 1832423 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Good Ole Rubbers, the benevolent Eugenicist.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:22 | 1832416 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

So, in other words, he failed even being a puppet!

Kinda like Obummer is.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832187 philipat
philipat's picture

Pap-smear?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:41 | 1832197 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Now that is worthy of a headline.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:55 | 1832269 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Read a translated version and they actually seem sincere in their cheering of Pap...they basically say the EU and the Euro currency has stripped Greece of its sovereignty.  They think its time Greece take it back. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:52 | 1832258 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Ha! Beat me to it.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:26 | 1832105 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Grren shoots?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:47 | 1832232 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

Green shoots in the pap-smear eeeewwwwww

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832106 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Logical Germans over at Spiegel.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:34 | 1832152 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

so logical, that (I note with amusement) they write the existing debt would continue to be denominated in EUR...

interesting assumption! very German

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:41 | 1832202 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Right. Keep the debt in EUR but meanwhile they are printing DMs.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832238 edotabin
edotabin's picture

They could just switch currencies and then devalue the Euro. That of course would impact "zee price stabileteee"

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:11 | 1832353 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

IMO, the Germans will make a hard peg to the Euro once they can convert at a good rate.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:42 | 1832205 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I agree. "We cannot escape our national...ism's." gold, gold, gold, gold, gold. And France of course!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:46 | 1832226 Belarus
Belarus's picture

Europeans are so loyal to their own culture that is borders on pathetic. This EURO unitifaction will never, ever, never, ever work.

Germany is exiting the EURO. After Greece, why would anyone want to keep throwing bad money after bad. LOL. Italian bonds are ripping because everyone woke up this morning and realized holding what should be bbb- debt that will turn to junk will be problematic. 

EURO=done, fried, kaput. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832250 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Europeans are so loyal to their own culture that is borders on pathetic.'

Well made point... Belarus

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:15 | 1832380 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I wonder if he gets your point?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:06 | 1832320 MJ
MJ's picture

"This EURO unitifaction will never, ever, never, ever work."

Depends on what you consider 'work'.  The continued centralization of power can easily extend the euro for another 30 years, it would just suck for everyone but the political elites.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:29 | 1832451 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Ding, Ding, Ding! Winnah!

The instant Obummer gave Merky her prize, I knew that was her payoff for screwing over the German people, yet again.

Unions of states are choke-holds. Once applied, they can never be relaxed lest the victim gains the opportunity to fight back.

Nobody (a.k.a. "leaders" in the political sphere) will be allowed to leave, as governments will be dissolved first in order to seal off the exits.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:38 | 1832454 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

so many childrens here today...

EUR/ECB were set up for one reason (out of many): so that the sovereign members joining would have less FX speculation pressure on their business and their savings. I shudder when I think what all this hot money slushing in "what can I short today so that I can become rich - or wait, is it bullish?" the market would do with a Drachma, a DM, a Lira, a FF, a Peseta.

If you can't have a gold standard, an independent central bank set up on the model of the BundesBank is the next-best-thing.

Greeks, particularly those who don't have much to start with, save in EUR. And they would continue to save in EUR even if Greece would exit the EZ.

Your "CB is evil, period" nonsense is like the villagers blaming the anvil on which the weapons that slayed the children were made.

Blame the bloody MegaBanks. Even ArchLordOfEvil Bernanke could not "manipulate" anything with the FED if the Treasury would not give him endless ammunition. If you want to blame the CBs, blame the ZIRP policy of the FED. Blame the bloody spenders in Government. This "unification" blathering is really so Helpless Serf Speak...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:55 | 1832610 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

The bloody MegaBanks and the bloody spenders in government would not exist without the unions. What's so hard to understand that centralization of power is nothing but enslavement? Free people would not choose to use megabanks or government IOUs as currency for saving OR spending.

The people have no choice though, as the notes are all decreed "legal tender" and are enforced at gunpoint.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:20 | 1832834 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

this "concentration of power" meme does not hold

you are talking of "Unions of States". WE DO NOT have a Union of States. Every stupid EU country is a Sovereign.

We just share some common tools (including the ECB). This is a concept even most British don't understand, so I do not blame you.

There must be something about Common Law that makes the layperson easily misunderstand all constitutional concepts.

--------------

Hard to have a gold standard when the Global HyperPower has Fiat

Hard to be a Global HyperPower without Fiat at all, by the way, wars aren't cheap

WTF do you expect from the US Vassal States of Europe? It's an American Game with American Rules.

(I love the USA, by the way)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:11 | 1832701 MJ
MJ's picture

"If you can't have a gold standard"

 

Why can’t we again? That’s right, its government edict that prevents such.  And the same edict also happens to create a CB, at the banks behest, to strengthen the banks.

 

The CB's and the banks are inseparable for blame purposes.  They both get power from the other, and the politicians follow the money.  All three parties deserve blame, but one, supposedly, represents the people and has approved of the shenanigans. 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:29 | 1832747 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Exactly, deflecting blame to ONLY government, or ONLY the banks/CB's is like saying that only Bruce Lee's* left hand was doing damage to his opponents. It's two hands of the same deadly dangerous entity.

 

* = with apologies to the great Bruce Lee for using him as example fodder..

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:12 | 1832856 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

see above, please

as long as the Treasury prints, the FED can "manage". We in Europe follow the lead.

The ECB was set up as the "BundesBank for all citizens of the EZ".

Now, you can continue with your Clueless Serf Talk or you can sit down and think.

The "source" of this evil is not in the instruments, it's in the perpetrators. Most of them are at the helm of the MegaBanks. But they need a Congress that "looks the other way". Who did allow all "financial innovation" since 1963? This "financial innovation" was just "relaxing" rules and laws that were made because we knew things like CDS don't really work, except for the "dealers".

Your Bruce Lee comparison does not hold because he was one man, we are talking here about organisations.

AND you do have to make a difference between the MegaBanks (who of course are also Primary Dealers) and the other Banks.

If the MegaBanks took away your Government - with some two hundred billions of lobbying money, I understand - well, for my perspective it's still US law from the US Legislative.

I repeat in a different way: all this Clueless Sheeple Talk about "Oh, just give us honest money" won't give you what you want. Take your bloody Government back, first.

As long as you think like serfs you will be handled as serfs. A serf, by the way, is someone that just "wishes to be left alone" by TPTB. And perhaps the only reasons why in Europe is more difficult to think like a serf is that we are reminded quite regularly that we are the allies of the Global HyperPower, complete with bases on our continent and all.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:44 | 1834174 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

I really like your POV and fully agree. Americans do need to think outside their box to understand that the Game is played by the rules defined by them and changed at will if they start to lose. But it's difficult for a bully at school to not think like a bully.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:56 | 1832270 srsly-wtf
srsly-wtf's picture

Merkel has been very quiet...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832107 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Recovery Autumn?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:28 | 1832118 CPL
CPL's picture

...only to be countered with a Burning Winter.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832111 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

what the fuck does that mean?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1832115 Note to self
Note to self's picture

German sarcasm?  Not bloody likely!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:44 | 1832214 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

actually there's nothing more terrifying than German sarcasm. I have a preternatural impulse to start reaching for a gun. And the bullets too...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:07 | 1834291 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

This wasn't sarcasm. Just logical thinking. And I fully agree to this article. Do you like democracy? This is it. Papa was elceted before the crisis hit Greece. His mandate by election is totally different to the situation they are in now. Let the people decide if they want to fuck over the banks.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832112 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Europe is in disbelief that the people's vote would matter...
Just imagine....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:28 | 1832120 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Wars have been fought for less.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:40 | 1832514 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Wars WILL be fought for this.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:43 | 1832210 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Yeah, well the West has always found real democracy threatening.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:44 | 1832213 eureka
eureka's picture

US elite knows that its sheeple's vote doesn't matter -

US Sheeple don't vote to begin with... (max 4 in 10 bother)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:06 | 1832317 j0nx
j0nx's picture

I used to think this way too until I realized that the ones not voting are the smart ones. Your choices are crooked and crookeder and this is all assuming that the voting machines aren't hacked - which is a wild stretch to believe they aren't. Voting is useless and is just a bone they throw us to make us think that we still have power over who rules us. Naivety at its finest.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:28 | 1832113 ADirtyChapCalle...
ADirtyChapCalledWanker's picture

Now accepting as collateral Souvlaki, Feta Cheese, Olive Oil, and Ouzo. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:34 | 1832157 edotabin
edotabin's picture

With the bad times ahead, that sounds like a decent meal.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:11 | 1832245 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

ROTFLMAO....

How true, they may be sitting on more than they think.

Throw in a little bread and a nice woman for company..., what else would you need?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:21 | 1832743 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Red wine comes to mind.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:45 | 1832218 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Long: Flokati rugs, puzzle rings and worry beads.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:10 | 1832347 j0nx
j0nx's picture

And hairy greek women. Let's not forget the greek women. I'll take two.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 23:59 | 1839853 Manthong
Manthong's picture

You knew the Whispering Bush of Glyfada?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:29 | 1832123 Dick Darlington
Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1832135 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

A far more comprehensive analysis can be found here.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:33 | 1832148 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

I know. ;-)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:53 | 1832260 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

I think a formal apology is in order.  BI is a piece of shit.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:18 | 1832398 SDRII
SDRII's picture

& Cullen Roche a useless MMT windbag

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832190 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Tyler no likey Joe Wieselthol.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:59 | 1832286 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Seems to me quite reasonable to doubt Joe The Fluffinator.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:18 | 1832392 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Joe Weisnethal is to Tyler Durden as Kim Kardashin is to Meryl Streep.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832234 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Still don't want to say anything nice about Hank Paulson do ya! Perhaps if put in the light "bailouts sometimes fail as well" that would help? So many. So many...waiting for "their fix."

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:00 | 1832293 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

I wouldn´t allow BI BS on Zerohedge, too. ;-)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:39 | 1832183 srsly-wtf
srsly-wtf's picture

I don't know why, but the EFSF reminds me of Al Gore's Social Security lockbox....I must be off my meds...Please continue.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1832131 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

What caused the surge in equities there?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:32 | 1832141 Racer
Racer's picture

No doubt some government/fed somewhere or other

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:49 | 1832241 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the US has had a policy of "containment" relative to Europe for some time now....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832251 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

The 'New' Red Menace

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:50 | 1832246 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

BoJ catching knives.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:53 | 1832264 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

'What caused the surge in equities there?'

Why Dick Bove.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1832132 TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

Recovery Winter!

Didn't Iceland have a referendum of sorts over debt?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1832133 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

OK - which of you clowns is buying up the bank stocks? Must be the Greeks.. FAZ is "only" up about 7% now..

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:33 | 1832149 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

I don't think we'll get to 1230 on ES.  Hold on.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:31 | 1832136 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

One strong Europe with many currencies!!!!!!!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:36 | 1832170 maxmad
maxmad's picture

One weak Europe with many worthless fiat paper!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:32 | 1832144 oogs66
oogs66's picture

der spiegel is mad that ZH stole the Well Played, Mr Papandreou line 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:32 | 1832145 tao400
tao400's picture

Doesn't anyone read history anymore. One of the most epic stories in all of literature has met its modern day equivelant. G-Pap has rolled out the Greek Trojan Horse once again and the fools in Europse fell for it.  Merkal is now a laughinstock in Germany. It's awesome, even though it is costing me a lot of money.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832192 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Greece is coming severely unglued; It's either referendum or guillotines.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:35 | 1832998 MS7
MS7's picture

Can it be true? I have to totally change my judgment of Mr. Papandreou (he's graduated in my mind from G-Pap). The Parliament won't let him do it. They're going to topple him. All of them are in a total panic. Even the "communists" don't want a referendum on exiting the euro, which supposedly they were for. Ha.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:33 | 1832150 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

And back gold/silver come - $1,707/oz from $1,680 and $33.45/oz from $32.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:42 | 1832206 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

I just don't like the 1:2 correlation.  It keeps holding up.  Gold may take off when idiots in Europe once again realize the Euro is on its deathbed.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:34 | 1832155 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

I don't get it...Who does Der Spiegal work for!!...I thought all "Big Media" was not to be trusted...Europa politics is confusing for this Yank...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:46 | 1832224 Pacifico
Pacifico's picture

No wonder...Der Spiegel is a socialist paper. In Germany known as the intellectual bible for all lefties.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:36 | 1832161 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Austerity measures call for referendums.  The politicians are in the pocket of the banksters and new elections will serve no purpose.  Obviously the banksters and their puppets are terrified of referendums in any of the debtor Euroland nations; but if the other option is civil war??

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:35 | 1832164 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

How early will these early elections be ? The middle of next week ?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:35 | 1832166 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Looks like democracy is for losers only. After years of austerity they are finally allowed to choose between pest and cholera.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:36 | 1832169 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

14:31 01Nov11 RTRS-FRANCE, GERMANY, AFTER SPEAKING ON PHONE, ARE CONVINCED EURO  CRISIS ACCORD CAN HELP GREECE GET BACK TO LASTING GROWTH

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:43 | 1832209 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Of course and why wouldn't it?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832253 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

your "representation" is being realized Gene.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:37 | 1832173 Jean
Jean's picture

How many times do the Greeks get to vote until they get the right answer?  Just to get my marks in for the churn.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:39 | 1832181 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

I think it says he drives a Volkswagon.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832186 Crabshack
Crabshack's picture

US30Y Wow.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:41 | 1832195 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

And the market will rally into the close.  Move along, move along...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:43 | 1832208 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Benny better print tmr.

No print, no bid.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:49 | 1832247 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And even if Bernank were to 'print', how long would that bit of Hopium last 24 hours?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:05 | 1832315 qussl3
qussl3's picture

That depends on whether you can still afford to drive to toyrus or walmart come xmas i suppose.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832252 srsly-wtf
srsly-wtf's picture

"Benny and the INK jets"

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:42 | 1832200 asteroids
asteroids's picture

As I predicted two years ago. Greeks may be lazy but they aren't stupid. You offered them "free" money and they accepted. Now you are shocked that they refuse to pay up? Now George will go to the people and ask "them" if they want to pay up. The same choice Icelanders were given eh? Of course they'll say NO! I can assure you that Greeks are laughing themselves silly today. I know I am.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:01 | 1832291 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

This should be great. So far Greece hasn't paid a ANY INTEREST,ANY PRINCIPAL, and they are going wild in the streets due to cuts in goverment spending neccessary for them to borrow EVEN MORE MONEY, to continue to live beyond their means. This is the Zombie wars coming to fruition right in front of our eyes. They are saying I WAS BORN HERE, SO I HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE SOMEONE ELSE SUPPORT ME. (in the style to which I'm accoustomed)They would have fit right in on a Mississippi plantation in the 1850's.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:02 | 1832493 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"Now George will go to the people and ask "them" if they want to pay up. The same choice Icelanders were given eh?"

Yes, a very similair choice. If by 'choice' you mean the Greek people will be allowed the entirely just and fair opportunity to decide whether or not to signal the bird to 'them', and by "them" you meant the group of sociopathic banksters and their pocketed politicians who committed the egregious fraud that put the Greek people in the untenable position that they are today, and from which the Icelandic people extricated themselves (well, they're working on it anyway).

Apparently demonstrating works in some countries.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:39 | 1833032 MS7
MS7's picture

You are wrong about Greeks laughing themselves silly. The whole Parliament, all parties, are in a state of panic. Papandreou won't manage to get his referendum out to the people. Unfortunately, the ordinary citizens have come to so deeply distrust him that they didn't see this for the gift that (I think, unless I'm missing something) it was.

As for the "lazy" part-- you are totally wrong, but people who say things like that won't be convinced so I won't waste time on that.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 15:50 | 1833780 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Indeud, facts just make hypocrites in denial all the more angry if you refuse to blindly accept their weak attempts at distraction.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:42 | 1832203 11b40
11b40's picture

Yo, Tylers!  Could you slow this down a little?  It's like trying to drink from a firehose this morning, and I have work to do.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832236 Blano
Blano's picture

No doubt........I can't keep up.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:59 | 1832280 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

Don't drink too much out of it because they'll need all the firehose water they can get on the Acropolis before long...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:43 | 1832207 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Germany is just saying "Bravo" because they don't want to pay for Greece, but they don't want to get blamed for the consequences if they don't. With a vote by the Greek people, Germany will probably be off the hook for both the money and the ramifications.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:49 | 1832242 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

AHHH!!!  Thanx!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:44 | 1832215 Kaaos
Kaaos's picture

DAX 6 % down before US opens, and DJ 2,4 % down after open, and now DJ is heading to close green...? From here Eu area looking you have some wonderful reciliense there. It's hard to short these markets. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:00 | 1832288 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'DJ' heading to close green' youve already got that baked-in why?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:45 | 1832219 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

FEMA camp food is to die for!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:15 | 1832374 ljag
ljag's picture

You thing they will actually serve food there? Hmmmmmmmm. Prolly Alpo tho, huh?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:47 | 1832225 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

When Greece votes "no" and defaults and creditors  take a 100% haircut will ISDA consider that voluntary? 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:18 | 1832938 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

You lost your copy of the script again didn't you?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:46 | 1832227 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

"Our constitution does not copy the laws of neighbouring states; we are rather a pattern to others than imitators ourselves. Its administration favours the many instead of the few; this is why it is called a democracy. If we look to the laws, they afford equal justice to all in their private differences; if no social standing, advancement in public life falls to reputation for capacity, class considerations not being allowed to interfere with merit; nor again does poverty bar the way, if a man is able to serve the state, he is not hindered by the obscurity of his condition. The freedom which we enjoy in our government extends also to our ordinary life. There, far from exercising a jealous surveillance over each other, we do not feel called upon to be angry with our neighbour for doing what he likes, or even to indulge in those injurious looks which cannot fail to be offensive, although they inflict no positive penalty. But all this ease in our private relations does not make us lawless as citizens. Against this fear is our chief safeguard, teaching us to obey the magistrates and the laws, particularly such as regard the protection of the injured, whether they are actually on the statute book, or belong to that code which, although unwritten, yet cannot be broken without acknowledged disgrace."

*****

"Nor are these the only points in which our city is worthy of admiration. We cultivate refinement without extravagance and knowledge without effeminacy; wealth we employ more for use than for show, and place the real disgrace of poverty not in owning to the fact but in declining the struggle against it."

--Pericles, 431 BC http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/pericles-funeralspeech.asp

Emphasis added.  May God give us all strength to follow the examples set before us.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:41 | 1834154 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Are you trying to back up the above observation from bunga bunga that `democracy is for losers only` ? The `spin` in that text could be due to translation, don't trust words you can't translate yourself, old languages are no longer part of the curriculum in government controlled 'education`, guess why. But taking wrongful translation for granted, this piece still reads like a user's manual for losers or those
religious books originating about that time.They must have been really hard up back than to be in need of all that bs
but the sarcasm of those needing to hang on to power still
shines through and reads as today.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832237 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Miracle on Merkal St.?  Whaaaaahappan?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:55 | 1832268 Misean
Misean's picture

Goebels said the same thing about Stalingrad...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:59 | 1832285 monopoly
monopoly's picture

The people of Europe are getting it now. Too bad Americans are so clueless. But at some point they too will wake up.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:47 | 1832565 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Clueless? All the protests in Europe are about losing free stuff. That hasn't quite happened here yet ("thanks" to Brian Sack and Turbo Timmah), but it is the obvious direction we're all headed (Mises' crack-up boom), so protests like OWS are created and funded by the elites to provide a direct avenue to the slaughterhouse.

Germans may "get it" in the sense they're having to fund everyone else again, but that too is another trap, as they are not allowed to be victims on the world stage, so they will be demonized yet again as they fight back.

Isn't Collectivism wonderful? Without it, the world would be utterly unconquerable. With it, they've made debt slaves of most all without their even knowing it.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 01:57 | 1835436 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Well if that's what you really think then you are indeed truly clueless, duped, or complicit.

 The protests all over Europe are not about 'collectischmoosms lusing schmee schtuff', they are about the majority being robbed blind by a group of sociopathic international banksters and their pocketed politicians.

That's a one helluva fucking big difference you've somehow completely missed, IMO.

"... Fixed rear, ramp front sights, two-inch barrel.
Weighs a feather 21 oz. Eight-round capacity.
Or did I say nine?
Well which one is it, mister? Eight or nine?
It's a pretty big fucking difference if you ask me."-Salton Sea

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:00 | 1832290 Cycle
Cycle's picture

"Mit etwas Glück bleibt ein nordeuropäisches Euro-Zönchen übrig. With luck, there remains a Northern European Euro-Zönchen"
Welcome the NEURO - The Nordic Euro. Hopefully it has more brains than the last one.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:01 | 1832294 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

G-Pappy is one heck of a chess player, on one hand he's shifting blame of a potential total faliure to his own people, on the other hand if he gets re afirmed....+ he made a boat load on his shorts, given that he did not announced this to his EU buddies!

I tip my hat, he's a cool hand...with other people's money :)))!

My shorts are screaming anyways and i'll close them soon, we'll still see a santa rally, believe it or not!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:08 | 1832330 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Statistically a crash in nov dec is extremely rare.

Would probably take something like Draghi or Ben going volcker on everyone.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:20 | 1832407 ljag
ljag's picture

What happened to those Dec S&P puts? Sounds like someone is counting on a bad Dec.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:02 | 1832299 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

a referendum for the greeks is good good and even more good. i have reservations about g paps motives they may havbe been inspired by his cds hedges with him and his brother,...however this is what all the piig nations need a bit of democracy and a bit less banker bullying...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:02 | 1832303 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Is Germany gay? why they use "Herr"?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:48 | 1834500 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

Originated of Herra from the vikings.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:02 | 1832305 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

If the last Ireland referendum on the EU is any indication, the Greek referendum will end up with a "yes". Because "no" means "yes", yes?

Oh and did Ireland say no? They obviously meant yes! Let's have another referendum to be sure.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:29 | 1832455 Kuri
Kuri's picture

To be sure that their votes will be accounted for, Greeks have to vote with their feet. How ? Simple :  they just have to carve two letters ("NO") under their shoe and kick it directly on politicians foreheads. Then you count how many "NO's" you have.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:10 | 1832349 shargash
shargash's picture

This is the first positive development I've seen in the Euro crisis. The Greek people need to take responsibility for their own future. Lets hope the rest of Europe follow suit. If the Euro can't survive Democracy, then the Euro had no future anyway. Lets take the pain and move on.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:13 | 1832368 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

You Know...I take anything "anti-Fortress Europe" as something the Banksters don't want!  I'm still a bit confused as to the motivations of this 'Bravo'.....Comments!!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:50 | 1832588 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

are you serious? the Germans like the Greeks

Spiegel Online is happy about Greece taking any steps that show some responsibility

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:29 | 1832777 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

And the consequences of the Greeks taking responsibility...I don't follow?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:18 | 1832395 Kaaos
Kaaos's picture

to Sheep-Dog one, I meant that in sense that I don't hope it close green, I'm short ESTOXX50 but as US resists to go down (yeah I know you have plunge protection team, which we don't have it here EU), it's dangerous to be short (even Europe indexes).

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:19 | 1832402 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Military government in Greece by Jan 1.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:23 | 1832419 ImNotExposed
ImNotExposed's picture

How this Papandreou can! Their own people ask that runs against his policies storm! Since it is already clear what comes out! So many are spontaneous reactions to the announcement of the Premiers.

I like translations like this. It means the content probably hasn't been intercepted by the Ministry of Truth yet.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | 1834228 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

What about translations of this automated sort don't need an editor from the Ministry of Truth ? What was this Babel
thing ? Get their languages mingled and screwed up ...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:24 | 1832427 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

This will not stand!!!! Let the manipulation begin!!

FED to give banks more free money to buy stocks

FED to buy stocks

SEC to ban shorting of financials

SEC to ban shorting

COMEX to raise margins

COMEX to raise margins again

COMEX to raise margins again

Central Banks to buy dollars and yen and Euros and so it will go

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:30 | 1832463 thegreygrater
thegreygrater's picture

 

Given a choice, as were the Danes in 1992, the French and Dutch in 2005, the Irish in 2008, an intelligent and informed populace will reject as folly any "gift" from Euro bureaucrats. It will be a no vote. A blow for freedom will be struck. A blow in opposition to supercilious bureaucrats. Greeks will not be serfs.

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:33 | 1832469 TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture

Busting North-South Stereotypes

    "The euro-zone debt crisis has underlined one of Europe’s more enduring stereotypes, namely the division between the hard-working Northern countries versus the lazy South. And these stereotypes have to some degree filtered into the European Union’s policy debate over how to respond to the debt crisis.

    But the reality is more complicated than this: recently bailed-out Ireland, for example, does not appear to be in southern Europe. Excluding that inconvenient fact, there are other problems with the hard-working-North-versus-lazy-South narrative.

    For example, workers in which EU countries work the longest weeks? Tops are the Greeks, who work on average 42 hours a week.  Spain and Portugal aren’t far behind with a work week of around 39 hours. And where is the shortest work week in the EU? That would be in the Netherlands, under 31 hours a week.

    Germans on average work just under 36 hours a week, significantly less than the hard-working Greeks  they are now bailing out.

    Your first reaction might be: Here is yet another statistic that has been fudged by the Greeks. But not so, says Eurostat, which has several explanations for the numbers.

    First, part-time work is much more prevalent in the northern countries, particularly in the Netherlands and Germany. In Greece and the other southern countries, workers either have a full-time job or they are unemployed (increasingly the latter in the Age of Austerity).

    Women are also much more likely to work in the northern countries, particularly the Scandinavian nations, and women tend to work fewer hours than men.

    Second, a higher percentage of Greek workers tend to work in agriculture, where working hours are usually longer. The same is true for the other southern euro-zone countries that have run into trouble.

    What these numbers show is that the southern euro zone’s problems aren’t a result of workers there not working hard enough. The problem instead is lower productivity in the southern rim: In 2009, Greek workers generated just €18.50 per hour worked; for Spain and Portugal, the number is €24.40 and €13.80, respectively.

    Dutch workers generated €39.50 and German workers €38.70. Yes, the gap is huge.

    But what’s behind it? Is the right move to cut pensions and welfare benefits in the southern euro-zone countries, as the European Commission, the International Monetary Fund and the European Central Bank are urging? This will likely get the southern Europeans to work even more, but it won’t get them to work more productively."

    http://tiny.cc/al45b

    .....

    So, the deal for the Greeks is to take austerity, work longer hours (and for more years), because the banks do not want to face the full consequences of their risk-taking (remember the Goldman connection to this, helping Greece to get into the EU to begin with)?  

    Sounds like a shitty deal to me.  

    How about austerity for the international finance cartel and the managerial-political class? 

    Excise the parasites, write down all debt to market levels, and let the chips fall from there.  Sorry assholes, if there is no market for your debt, don't go whining to the IMF or whatever other transnational organization that you expect help from, that means you did a really shitty job doing due diligence.  

    We need to hit the "refresh" button on all of this and take some pain now instead of putting it off for my generation (I'm 26) to deal with.  Everything post-2007 has been about putting off the consequences (mainly by aritifically buoying asset prices, hiding debt obligations, and indirectly/directly subsidizing big finance at the detriment to the citizens) from decades of failed, faulty policies.  

    Man up you pussies.

    When you plant an apple seed, don't be surprised when an apple tree grows.

     

    Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:35 | 1832492 Finance Addict
    Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:57 | 1832622 0cz
    0cz's picture

    Good News:  Referendum increasingly unlikely in Greece
    Bad News:  Because the Greek government could collapse as early as tonight

    -CNBC about 30 seconds ago

    Wait.... are they attempting to hedge their rumors now?

    Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:57 | 1832624 JohnFrodo
    JohnFrodo's picture

    There will be no referendum, and there will be a revolt of the PIGGS

    Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:06 | 1832665 dugorama
    dugorama's picture

    clearly instead of visiting Arkansas you've been watching Fox news reruns if you believe that swill.   get a grip.  people don't actually kill their best friend, barefoot hillbillies aren't actually cocaine dealers (homemade meth maybe) and losing $100k in a real estate deal is not evidence of illegally using influence. 

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!