Spiegel's Reaction To G-Pap's Referendum Announcement

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Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:26 | 1832104 edotabin
edotabin's picture

Going down baby!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:37 | 1832172 Smithovsky
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hint hint angela

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832191 eureka
eureka's picture

hint hint Obama - next stop DC - US national-socialism next to go

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:46 | 1832223 redpill
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We can pretend longer with our currency.  We'll be the last and largest domino.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832239 GeneMarchbanks
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Assuming, of course, that there isn't another five MF Globals around the corner.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832249 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

or he was just wanted to goose his nest egg by adding some rocket fuel to his shorts,

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:50 | 1832591 Bicycle Repairman
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If I were a Greek I would vote for the rescue secure in the knowledge that I'm not paying a dime.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1832894 Uncle Remus
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's still there.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:06 | 1832318 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

If by national Socialism you mean Nazi-like Fascism I agree. If you mean Socialism like the Danish or Swedish have...well lay off the crack pipe. All this talk of Marxism and Socialism about Obama is fucking laughable at best.

He's a Fascist, a FASCIST marked by extreme militarism, propaganda and destruction of civil rights and democratic initiatives. Also the downfall of a Republic. He's just like Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Reagan before him. Really you have to go back to someone who got a bullet in the dome to find a non-fascist (hint the 48 year anniversary of his death is coming up). It's what Eisenhower was warning us all about.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:14 | 1832370 Paul Bogdanich
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"He's just like Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Reagan before him.

You err in putting Herbert Walker Bush in with the rest.  He lost the election trying to do what was best for the country like close loopholes and raise taxes.  The rest of them everyone, who knows anything anyway, agrees with.

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:18 | 1832397 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

LOL, an HW supporter? You must have bought into all the post administration propaganda. He lost the election due to Ross Perot splitting his base. Period.

Are you forgetting Iran-Contra, Continuity of Government, Shadow Government etc. etc.?

I would rate HW Bush and all FIVE of his terms (Reagan post being shot, his "one term", plus both of Bush II's) as being the MOST Fascist of all of the presidencies back to JFK.

Remember Cheney was secretary of defense under Bush and the first Gulf War was built on lies very similar to the WMD scam under Bush II. Read between the lines the Bush family is one of the most responsible of all families for the past 30 years of governance. HW Bush is the patriarch and architect of that families dominance during that period.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:24 | 1832431 Bring the Gold
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I should probably include the Clinton years as well due to the cocaine coming through Mena Arkansas during Iran/Contra which was about control of the cocaine supply as much as anything. He boosted the drug war to make sure they had total control of the drug supply during that time. Gary Webb wrote about it and Skull and Bones buddy Kerry refused to investigate the drug aspects of Iran-Contra.

Therefore, you can say since leaving the directorship of the CIA, HW Bush and his Rockefeller backers (See Nelson Rockefeller threatening Reagan to take HW as VP or he would tilt the election to Carter) had more to do with the past 30 years than anyone. HW thrived in the shadows and SUCKED as a frontman. Learn REAL history and it all becomes quite clear.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:20 | 1832404 Confused
Confused's picture

You err in believing there is a difference between any of them. Bush family is just as suspect as any.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:23 | 1832423 NotApplicable
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Good Ole Rubbers, the benevolent Eugenicist.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:22 | 1832416 NotApplicable
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So, in other words, he failed even being a puppet!

Kinda like Obummer is.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:40 | 1832187 philipat
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Pap-smear?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:41 | 1832197 tmosley
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Now that is worthy of a headline.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:55 | 1832269 NumberNone
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Read a translated version and they actually seem sincere in their cheering of Pap...they basically say the EU and the Euro currency has stripped Greece of its sovereignty.  They think its time Greece take it back. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:52 | 1832258 Buckaroo Banzai
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Ha! Beat me to it.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:26 | 1832105 Clueless Economist
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Grren shoots?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:47 | 1832232 Taint Boil
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Green shoots in the pap-smear eeeewwwwww

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832106 GeneMarchbanks
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Logical Germans over at Spiegel.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:34 | 1832152 Ghordius
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so logical, that (I note with amusement) they write the existing debt would continue to be denominated in EUR...

interesting assumption! very German

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:41 | 1832202 Ralph Spoilsport
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Right. Keep the debt in EUR but meanwhile they are printing DMs.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:48 | 1832238 edotabin
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They could just switch currencies and then devalue the Euro. That of course would impact "zee price stabileteee"

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:11 | 1832353 Bring the Gold
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IMO, the Germans will make a hard peg to the Euro once they can convert at a good rate.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:42 | 1832205 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I agree. "We cannot escape our national...ism's." gold, gold, gold, gold, gold. And France of course!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:46 | 1832226 Belarus
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Europeans are so loyal to their own culture that is borders on pathetic. This EURO unitifaction will never, ever, never, ever work.

Germany is exiting the EURO. After Greece, why would anyone want to keep throwing bad money after bad. LOL. Italian bonds are ripping because everyone woke up this morning and realized holding what should be bbb- debt that will turn to junk will be problematic. 

EURO=done, fried, kaput. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:51 | 1832250 GeneMarchbanks
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'Europeans are so loyal to their own culture that is borders on pathetic.'

Well made point... Belarus

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:15 | 1832380 Ghordius
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I wonder if he gets your point?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:06 | 1832320 MJ
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"This EURO unitifaction will never, ever, never, ever work."

Depends on what you consider 'work'.  The continued centralization of power can easily extend the euro for another 30 years, it would just suck for everyone but the political elites.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:29 | 1832451 NotApplicable
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Ding, Ding, Ding! Winnah!

The instant Obummer gave Merky her prize, I knew that was her payoff for screwing over the German people, yet again.

Unions of states are choke-holds. Once applied, they can never be relaxed lest the victim gains the opportunity to fight back.

Nobody (a.k.a. "leaders" in the political sphere) will be allowed to leave, as governments will be dissolved first in order to seal off the exits.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:38 | 1832454 Ghordius
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so many childrens here today...

EUR/ECB were set up for one reason (out of many): so that the sovereign members joining would have less FX speculation pressure on their business and their savings. I shudder when I think what all this hot money slushing in "what can I short today so that I can become rich - or wait, is it bullish?" the market would do with a Drachma, a DM, a Lira, a FF, a Peseta.

If you can't have a gold standard, an independent central bank set up on the model of the BundesBank is the next-best-thing.

Greeks, particularly those who don't have much to start with, save in EUR. And they would continue to save in EUR even if Greece would exit the EZ.

Your "CB is evil, period" nonsense is like the villagers blaming the anvil on which the weapons that slayed the children were made.

Blame the bloody MegaBanks. Even ArchLordOfEvil Bernanke could not "manipulate" anything with the FED if the Treasury would not give him endless ammunition. If you want to blame the CBs, blame the ZIRP policy of the FED. Blame the bloody spenders in Government. This "unification" blathering is really so Helpless Serf Speak...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:55 | 1832610 NotApplicable
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The bloody MegaBanks and the bloody spenders in government would not exist without the unions. What's so hard to understand that centralization of power is nothing but enslavement? Free people would not choose to use megabanks or government IOUs as currency for saving OR spending.

The people have no choice though, as the notes are all decreed "legal tender" and are enforced at gunpoint.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:20 | 1832834 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

this "concentration of power" meme does not hold

you are talking of "Unions of States". WE DO NOT have a Union of States. Every stupid EU country is a Sovereign.

We just share some common tools (including the ECB). This is a concept even most British don't understand, so I do not blame you.

There must be something about Common Law that makes the layperson easily misunderstand all constitutional concepts.

--------------

Hard to have a gold standard when the Global HyperPower has Fiat

Hard to be a Global HyperPower without Fiat at all, by the way, wars aren't cheap

WTF do you expect from the US Vassal States of Europe? It's an American Game with American Rules.

(I love the USA, by the way)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:11 | 1832701 MJ
MJ's picture

"If you can't have a gold standard"

 

Why can’t we again? That’s right, its government edict that prevents such.  And the same edict also happens to create a CB, at the banks behest, to strengthen the banks.

 

The CB's and the banks are inseparable for blame purposes.  They both get power from the other, and the politicians follow the money.  All three parties deserve blame, but one, supposedly, represents the people and has approved of the shenanigans. 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 12:29 | 1832747 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Exactly, deflecting blame to ONLY government, or ONLY the banks/CB's is like saying that only Bruce Lee's* left hand was doing damage to his opponents. It's two hands of the same deadly dangerous entity.

 

* = with apologies to the great Bruce Lee for using him as example fodder..

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 13:12 | 1832856 Ghordius
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see above, please

as long as the Treasury prints, the FED can "manage". We in Europe follow the lead.

The ECB was set up as the "BundesBank for all citizens of the EZ".

Now, you can continue with your Clueless Serf Talk or you can sit down and think.

The "source" of this evil is not in the instruments, it's in the perpetrators. Most of them are at the helm of the MegaBanks. But they need a Congress that "looks the other way". Who did allow all "financial innovation" since 1963? This "financial innovation" was just "relaxing" rules and laws that were made because we knew things like CDS don't really work, except for the "dealers".

Your Bruce Lee comparison does not hold because he was one man, we are talking here about organisations.

AND you do have to make a difference between the MegaBanks (who of course are also Primary Dealers) and the other Banks.

If the MegaBanks took away your Government - with some two hundred billions of lobbying money, I understand - well, for my perspective it's still US law from the US Legislative.

I repeat in a different way: all this Clueless Sheeple Talk about "Oh, just give us honest money" won't give you what you want. Take your bloody Government back, first.

As long as you think like serfs you will be handled as serfs. A serf, by the way, is someone that just "wishes to be left alone" by TPTB. And perhaps the only reasons why in Europe is more difficult to think like a serf is that we are reminded quite regularly that we are the allies of the Global HyperPower, complete with bases on our continent and all.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:44 | 1834174 schadenfreude
schadenfreude's picture

I really like your POV and fully agree. Americans do need to think outside their box to understand that the Game is played by the rules defined by them and changed at will if they start to lose. But it's difficult for a bully at school to not think like a bully.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:56 | 1832270 srsly-wtf
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Merkel has been very quiet...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832107 Clueless Economist
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Recovery Autumn?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:28 | 1832118 CPL
CPL's picture

...only to be countered with a Burning Winter.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832111 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

what the fuck does that mean?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:30 | 1832115 Note to self
Note to self's picture

German sarcasm?  Not bloody likely!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:44 | 1832214 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

actually there's nothing more terrifying than German sarcasm. I have a preternatural impulse to start reaching for a gun. And the bullets too...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:07 | 1834291 schadenfreude
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This wasn't sarcasm. Just logical thinking. And I fully agree to this article. Do you like democracy? This is it. Papa was elceted before the crisis hit Greece. His mandate by election is totally different to the situation they are in now. Let the people decide if they want to fuck over the banks.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:27 | 1832112 Sudden Debt
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Europe is in disbelief that the people's vote would matter...
Just imagine....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:28 | 1832120 HungrySeagull
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Wars have been fought for less.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 11:40 | 1832514 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Wars WILL be fought for this.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 10:43 | 1832210 xcehn
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Yeah, well the West has always found real democracy threatening.

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