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The Spirit Is Willing, But The Flesh Is Weak

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors

I hate to go all “biblical” but that is the best way I could describe the statements and releases from this weekend.  Every politician and finance ministry employee made it very clear that they wanted to do all that they could to “fix” Europe.  The problem remains, that they can only do limited things, and those may not work.  The schemes being proposed to save Europe are getting more far-fetched by the day and are more often than not in direct odds with each other.

The ECB will continue to purchase bonds, will cut interest rates, and may start selling CDS.  YAWN!  Short term interest rates aren’t the problem in Europe.  It may help at the margin, though there is a growing chorus of market watchers who question how helpful ultra low short term rates are to the economy as a whole.  The likely outcome of ECB bond purchases is that they will increase their balance sheet at the wrong price without meaningful long term impact on the debt market.  When will CDS on the ECB start trading?  How much access to capital do they really have before their solvency is questioned?  How much capital do they require from the member countries, and when will those capital calls impact the ratings of those countries?

The market briefly rallied because the ESM was going to be put in place sooner than expected, alleviating the need for the EFSF.  When that rally faded, the new plan was to let the EFSF use leverage to increase its impact.  In the background lingers the hope of a Eurobond in spite of all evidence that the EU cannot come to agreement on financial issues much smaller than would be required to ever successfully issue Eurobonds.

While the market may go up 5% from here, or down 5%, or both, it is worth examining the details again. So far, any analysis of the details of the situation has led to the obvious conclusion that the plan doesn’t work, and that conclusion has turned out to be correct.

This is some data I was able to get last week.  Ratings were from Bloomberg and O indicates where the rating is on “outlook” and W indicates where the rating is on the more severe “watch”.  GDP came from Wikipedia and is from 2010 and Debt comes from Bloomberg. 

Eurobonds Are Unrealistic

If Europe was going to issue bonds where each country backed a portion of the debt, what would the rating of those bonds be?  We took a look at 3 reasonable ways to allocated the responsibilities – by % of GDP, by % of debt outstanding, and by % of EFSF guaranty.  If each country was responsible for paying back Eurobonds based on their proportion of GDP or EFSF guaranty, the Eurobonds would receive Baa2 ratings .  If the responsibility was based on debt outstanding, which makes the most sense, the rating would be Baa3, or almost junk!  So on a WARF basis, the outstanding debt of Europe as a whole is almost junk.  It is not surprising, but still useful to see, that a methodology where payment responsibility is tied to amount borrowed produces the lowest ratings, confirming that the weakest countries borrowed too much.  Based on rates where bonds were trading last week, a 10 year Eurobond would trade around 4.2% on a GDP based responsibility, and over 5%, on a debt based allocation.  Clearly that would be a huge burden to Germany, France, and the Netherlands, a moderate benefit for Spain and Italy, while providing almost all of the benefit to Greece, Ireland, and Portugal.

If you remove the worst offenders – Greece, Portugal, and Ireland, the Eurobond ratings would increase, but only to Aa2.  The yields should drop to 3.2% and 3.7%.  This would obviously make a Eurobond more useful, but it would probably be a hard sell where the 3 countries in the worst shape, who need 10% of the proceeds aren’t actually on the hook to pay any of the debt back.
In the end, any Eurobond solution would have to be done with a “joint and several” guarantee.  That may trick some citizens into believing that Germany and France aren’t fully responsible, but probably not enough to get it passed any time in the next few years.  Germany in particular would want a lot of rules in place to protect their guarantees.

I have read some reports about “blue” and “red” bonds.  The blue bonds would be for the entire Eurozone and only be lent up to 60% of a country’s GDP.   I am not sure how the transition period would work.  I cannot think of an obvious way to slowly replace existing bonds with “blue” or “red” bonds.  I don’t think it is worth spending much time on that, because Italy would need to issue €700 billion of subordinated debt and Greece would have to issue €200 billion of subordinated bonds (technically the much more happily named “red” bonds).  The ratings would have to be several notches below their existing debt ratings and I cannot imagine there is much appetite out there for subordinated PIIGS debt.

Eurobonds will not be created ever in my opinion, but even the best case would be several years before the framework was put in place that would allow countries (Germany) to get comfortable with a Eurobond.  What they do highlight is how problematic the debt situation in Europe is, and that any attempt to create a Eurobond will downgrade the credit of Germany and France and greatly increase their annual deficits as their funding costs will greatly increase.

Leveraged EFSF Is A Non-Starter

Which now takes us to the idea of “leveraging” the EFSF.  Letting the EFSF become a 5:1 leveraged vehicle would turn it into something with €2 trillion of buying power.  I can see Rehn and Schaeubly singing their “Happy Happy Joy Joy” song.  But let’s just think about this for a moment.  How would this actually work.

The original construct of EFSF required a total of €780 billion in guarantees to be able to issue €440 billion of debt.  The reality is that the AAA entities provide just over €440 billion of guarantees.  The entire AAA rating of the EFSF notes depends on their being enough AAA guarantees to cover the entire issue amount.  That is consistent with either a WARF or Weakest Link methodology.  By ensuring that the AAA entities provide more than enough support for the funded notes, the other guarantors became irrelevant.  The view, at least originally, was that these guarantees wouldn’t affect the ratings of the countries.  EFSF v 1.0 was supposed to lend money to weak countries, but on highly negotiated terms.  That has been expanded in the proposed EFSF v 2.0 to include bond purchases.  I can see how the rating agencies would keep the AAA rating if EFSF had some expanded powers, such as buying bonds in the secondary market at market prices in addition to some direct lending, again on reasonably commercial terms.  As the potential for EFSF to provide equity infusions for banks and to provide off-market funding or to drastically overpay to buy bonds from the ECB at their cost, the risk of actually needing to draw down on those guarantees has increased.  The rating agencies, and more importantly, investors, cannot just ignore the guarantees these countries have made to the EFSF.  France’s €158 billion guarantee is not trivial.  It wasn’t trivial in the original simple EFSF.  Under the proposed EFSF 2.0, it is somewhat plausible that investors could close their eyes and pretend it’s not really the debt of France.  But when that guarantee becomes a 20% first loss component, is that realistic?

If the EFSF takes the capital (guarantees) provided by the AAA countries and leverages them 5:1, investors and rating agencies would be prudent to consider those guarantees as debt of the issuing country.  Is it possible that not a single one of those AAA countries would experience a downgrade on that basis alone?  Then think about the intangibles.  These countries are basically showing that they are willing to throw out all the prudence that made them AAA and a safe haven for investors, in a last ditch effort to save the PIIGS.  The credibility of these countries would have to be questioned, and as the U.S. learned the hard way, rating agencies in particular aren’t afraid to look at changes in the political situation as an excuse to downgrade.  The US downgrade didn’t have a material impact on rates, because we can print money and many investors didn’t really agree with the rationale.  A country that is willing to take first loss risks in a vehicle that not only can make investments in a broad range of assets, but is planning on making its investments in assets that the market has determined to be deficient and at prices above what the market would pay does dramatically reduce the credibility of those countries.

I would be surprised if EFSF can sell the “first loss” notes to the market.  They might have to be classified as subordinated debt, or possible even equity.  That would have an impact of the regulatory capital requirements of the buyers of those “AAA” notes.  But that can be fixed.  The EFSF could create a 1% “first loss” tranche that they sell to the ECB, so the notes are no longer first loss.  The 1% “equity” stake purchased by the ECB would likely be worthless from a valuation standpoint, but being able to “honestly” say that the EFSF notes are senior and AAA would make it more plausible when they accepted them as 0% risk weighted assets.  It is ironic how all the politicians who hated “financial engineering” will hop into bed with it as soon as it’s helpful to their current agenda.  Even with these tricks, I think the risk of EFSF losing its AAA rating would scare investors.  It would scare me.  What would scare me more is that in a year, when I need to collect on the EFSF guarantees, new governments in some of the countries fight payment.  They would argue that the guarantees made by the prior government are unconstitutional or illegal.  Guarantees, like many forms of insurance, sound great until you go to collect payment.

If my analysis is correct, then EFSF may have to get money directly from the guarantors.  That is what the plan is for ESM so it’s not an outrageous suggestion.  But who will actually provide the funds?  EFSF does have guarantees from the non AAA countries.  Those were largely for show so that it would look like there was responsibility across EU members, even though investors were looking primarily to Germany and France.  Germany’s “over” guarantee is €211 billion.  Germany may argue they should only post €128 billion of cash into the vehicle and every other country should post their appropriate amount.  Why should Germany put up the full amount of its guarantee exposure if they are now investing in a potentially non rated first loss?  But then Italy would need to put up €84 billion and Spain would put up €56 billion.  Since the EFSF could just lend them the money, that would be the best solution, because then Germany could pretend other countries are putting up their “fair” share.  But would the markets see through this scheme?  Would the rating agencies see if for the joke that it is?

Where would the EFSF be able to fund the second loss tranche?  Where would it raise €1.6 trillion of senior debt money? China and Russia are obvious candidates.  Will they demand more than 20% subordination to take this over?  Will they argue that EFSF can do too many things and they want further credit support?  Where does it end, but I am not sure that with 20% only below them in a vehicle pretty much designed to lose money, that investors will flock to these notes.  Maybe they can create a mezz tranche?  Maybe, they can get AIG to write some super senior protection so they can sell the senior notes on a wrapped basis?  Once they get enough subordination then China and Russia can sell treasuries to the Fed so that they can buy the second loss notes.  At that point the EU/ECB would be the largest holder of risk on European bonds (via a first loss position) and the Fed would be the largest holder of Treasuries.  Something about that makes my head hurt.

Look at what they are talking about doing.  Look at how unsuccessful any of the previous, poorly thought out plans have worked.   Contagion has spread.  European bank shares are down 50% from a year ago.  European stock indices are down 20% from a year ago.  Portugal and Ireland are in deep trouble, and Italy and Spain are on the cusp of trouble.  Will more bogus plans that don’t really ever get implemented, that fix nothing, but make the system more convoluted really do anything?  Wouldn’t we be better off letting some defaults occur and picking up the pieces.  Maybe more time and energy should be spent on how to pick up the pieces while some are still independent, rather than further linking everyone to the anchor?   Maybe more time should be spent determining if Lehman was “solely” responsible for the problems in late 2008 and early 2009?  Maybe the problem wasn’t Lehman defaulting and it was just another piece of a bigger uglier puzzle and we are so busy trying to avoid another “Lehman Moment” that we have lost sight of whether it is that important to avoid a default?


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Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:55 | 1710898 Gandalf6900
Gandalf6900's picture

Uber alles

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:03 | 1710958 optimator
optimator's picture

In der welt.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:06 | 1710973 UGrev
UGrev's picture


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:13 | 1710993 KlausK
KlausK's picture


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:09 | 1711548 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Jeder fÜr sich, und Fed gegen alles.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:46 | 1710994 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture



Get your LSAP, more Crony Capitalism & more stealth BAILOUTS on!

09-26 10:05: Fed's Bullard says asset purchases most effective tool for Federal Reserve to ease policy with rates near zero percent


In the meantime, housing isn't deeply depressed. Housing is in a true state of deep depression (there is a difference) that it won't emerge from for YEARS. The entire psychology of buyers has been inverted completely:

New U.S. home sales fall 2.3% in August to 295000 - MarketWatch

18 minutes ago WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - The sale of new U.S. homes fell 2.3% in August to an annual rate of 295000.

To put that into perspective, there are fewer new homes being sold, even with mortgage rates at near or absolute all-time lows, than any time since this data has been tracked, including even in the late 1950s or early 1960s, than when the population of the U.S. was around 164 million citizens, or roughly half of where the population stands today.

And again, to highlight why Bullard is a criminal, intent on doing more bank & Wall Street bailouts, he'd rather go ahead with more LSAP, even though it does NOTHING to stimulate job growth or stimulate demand for goods and services on Main Street, which is the reason housing and so many other indicators of U.S. (and global) economic health are flashing the Depression Signal.

It's all about job creation (and the corollary wages and benefits). Everything else follows this most fundamental of economic signals without exception. After an OFFICIAL print of ZERO new jobs last month, when it takes 164,000 new jobs (using reliable and accurate data) to merely keep pace with population growth, and we're printing 0, and we'll soon be seeing negative jobs prints again (after the government and Federal Reserve and vacuumed 5.3 trillion in taxpayer money out taxpayers' pockets, and given total assistance of somw 12 trillion either directly or in backstop guarantees to Wall Street & the Banking sector), look out below.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:10 | 1711253 B9K9
B9K9's picture

TiS, I've always enjoyed your well thought out & reasoned comments, but you're beginning to tread dangerously close to Denninger & Blackswan (JR @ ZH) territory. In other words, you appear to believe your own rhetoric, as if logic might finally prevail and enlighten the masses.

We, as a global society/market, are well past the point where any of these proposed programs not only have -0- chance of success, but are pitched with any attempt @ pretending they will have any positive, restorative effect.

However, that is not the issue; the point of this entire exercise of the absurd is simply to allow TPTB to buy more time in order to position themselves to continue to rule after the rubble clears. Think of 3-card monte: the day-day stuff is all a diversion.

Ask yourself this: what is the long-term outcome? If we are all honest, we know where this is leading. That means no more Fed, no more centrally coordiniated national/internal trade/finance, etc.

Foget the noise and focus on building a community that might have a real chance @ going after these criminals after the reset.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:13 | 1710990 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Meine krankenschwester maschinengewehr ist kaputt!

(The only German I ever remembered.)

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:41 | 1711162 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

This means "my nurse machine gun is broken". You'd rather say "Krankenschwester, mein Maschinengewehr ist kaputt!"

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:30 | 1711672 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

You should also learn to say:  Where is the post office?

Here you go:     Hätscheln Sie bitte meine Hinterteile.

I'm always happy to help out a fellow ZHer.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:39 | 1712531 covert
covert's picture

drink more whiskey and eat more pork.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:56 | 1710899 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

like I said, Large Hadron Collider is an improbability drive instantiating sigma 6+ events in this worldline to prevent the Higgs Boson from being discovered.

End of Eurozone, and world-wide financial collpase expected by Christmas, just in time to stop the LHC from increasing its energy beams.


Faster than light travel (recent news) implies backward causality.  The future can effect the past.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:01 | 1710936 eisley79
eisley79's picture

standard model is wrong, they are trying to invent answers, to make their equations work.  that's why there hasnt been any significant progress since the 70s/80s.


Time to get back to reality, falsifiable science, and like the banksters, admit the system is fundamentally and fatally flawed.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:10 | 1710986 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

just like Darwin kept on trying to find facts to FIT his BOGUS 2-penny Monkey-to MAN theory

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:48 | 1711150 falak pema
falak pema's picture

So who made you man into a past tense being? Adam and eve bogus?

My lipstick marks tell me Eve is a ZH favorite.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 15:52 | 1712618 eisley79
eisley79's picture

i think you smelled burnt toast while writing that...please try again using sentences, or at least small clusters of related words...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:17 | 1711009 nyse
nyse's picture


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:27 | 1711300 nyse
nyse's picture

oops. double post.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:24 | 1711036 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Working wrist watch found in unearthed China tomb at least 500 years old.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:33 | 1711105 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

Mystery as century-old Swiss watch discovered in ancient tomb sealed for 400 years

Read more:

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:48 | 1711183 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

If that's true we better buy CHF as Switzerland will still be there in future.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:28 | 1711315 macholatte
macholatte's picture

The mysterious timepiece was encrusted in mud and rock and had stopped at 10:06 am.

why not 10:06 PM ? 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:55 | 1711201 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Was Marco Polo already working for Omega then? I thought cuckoo clocks began in Renaissance. Maybe Omega was called alpha before the cuckoo clock was invented and was already financing the Polos. 

BTW : the Mamelukes played polo in those Marco Polo days, just saying...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:47 | 1711180 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Hadron Collider is a toy. Built by children who wanted to prove what just wasn't so. Like the euro and the euro-zone. Both of these people share the same flaw in thinking,  Just because you think something is true dont make it so.  But some never give up trying to prove that they are right and nature is wrong.

To bad they will never understand that they are the error, not nature.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:13 | 1711268 M.B. Drapier
M.B. Drapier's picture

Well, the neutrons do pass over the Swiss/Italian border, a place where all kinds of strange things happen.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:56 | 1710900 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

I see debt people's spirits...!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:56 | 1710902 traditionalfunds
traditionalfunds's picture

ECB rumors plays well into end of Q institutional markups. Step aside please. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:57 | 1710906 Gandalf6900
Gandalf6900's picture

Poor Italy, a scared little lamb in a wolf den...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:09 | 1710975 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Actually that only describes Parlamento Italiano's female interns...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:18 | 1711626 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

Between the Mafia and the Vactican it never had a chance.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 09:59 | 1710911 Peter K
Peter K's picture

I think you miss the point of the exersize. The point is to save the Euro (and the honor of France and the undervalued DMark). (And.. I almost forgot..... break the USD hegemony). Everything else is of secondary importance.  Including the world economy. Vive le France:)

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:04 | 1710914 Mercury
Mercury's picture

 Maybe the problem wasn’t Lehman defaulting and it was just another piece of a bigger uglier puzzle and we are so busy trying to avoid another “Lehman Moment” that we have lost sight of whether it is that important to avoid a default?

Yeah...we're in the mess we're in largely because there haven't been enough "Lehman moments".

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:21 | 1711020 Sambo
Sambo's picture

The ugly puzzle is composed of Lehman-like pieces only. Think hologram...the whole is contained in the piece.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:00 | 1710915 pauhana
pauhana's picture

A psychotic chihuahua and a dim witted cat couldn't do any worse.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:00 | 1710919 scheka
scheka's picture

crash time

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:07 | 1710974 kito
kito's picture

gold now at 1607. recession and deflation bitchezzzzzzzzz

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:21 | 1711022 fuu
fuu's picture


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:32 | 1711102 falak pema
falak pema's picture

1492... and it'll be Cristopher Columbus time and his over boiled egg!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:26 | 1710920 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the father of the euro, Jacques Delors, now feels the euro experiment is over...The general feeing is that Merkel cannot swing a leveraged EFSF onto her constituents. A Eurobonds issue, w/O fiscal harmony and/or a two tier euro monetary deal, or a single one with revised currency pegs to euro in a new monetary system mix for club med countries, is just impossible. Trying to restructure the EUro on say devalued pegs of club med original currency marked down "30% or 40% for PIGs (and E Europe), means a whole new treaty with 17 nations! ....That is structurally impossible to get agreement on with each member. SO its damned if you don't change EFSF rules and damned if you do change rules, as either way it won't work. 

The simplest solution could be for Germany to walk away from euro and let 'club med' find a devalued peg to new north euro Deutsch mark. Then create a new eurozone in ten years time after this crisis. But a revalued DM means commercial pain for mercantile Germany and northern partners in a depressionary climate. No easy way out of this western civilization mess. The Oligarchs will continue to use international  labour arbitrage world wide and try preserve the current free wheeling ponzi banksta architecture. It's unsustainable, so it'll all collapse before 2015, when US debts become explosive at 150% of GDP and USD will burn to ground as reserve currency. The Euro crisis if left unresolved is antichamber to capitalist meltdown. That's why its do or die time. Merkel may be tempted in the coming four weeks to go all in and try and brazen her way against market wisdom. What a pandora's box this is turning out to be.

If we all ate humble pie for ten years and stopped playing these huge artificial constructs. Let the banks burn. And the Oligarchs disappear. But that is pie in the sky. They own us, not us them. So the show goes on...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:00 | 1710921 fwchiro
fwchiro's picture

Ursula von der Leyen already proposed the solution; Germany will backstop everything....but all your gold are belong to us.  Simple, effective and a completion of the work they started 1914...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:05 | 1710948 tim73
tim73's picture

Like many Greeks say, default is meaningless unless there will be many real reforms inside the public sector of Greece. Otherwise the same game would continue until the next, even worse collapse.

Too many leeches in Greece are benefiting still from the current system, in forms of bribes and high salaries. The system is completely fubar. Something like mafia era of Las Vegas from 50's to 70's.

BTW, according to poll in Kathimerini newspaper, released yesterday, 66 percent of Greeks want to STAY IN EUROZONE. It is not the fault of euro, it is the corrupted system.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:04 | 1710960 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:05 | 1710966 oogs66
oogs66's picture

i'm in

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:13 | 1711266 M.B. Drapier
M.B. Drapier's picture

Only if we can then reject the solution as unacceptable, like we did last time.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:06 | 1710968 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Maybe more time should be spent determining if Lehman was “solely” responsible for the problems in late 2008 and early 2009?'re getting warmer...and I think you know the answer, Tyler. 

Lehman merely confirmed that "the fundamentals of our economy are Not sound". It shattered the myth of rock solid invincibility. It proved that all the higher order mathematics regarding risk were wrong and free-markets are not self-correcting. People are quick to forget that Lehman came after more than a full year of creeping credit market contagion. Once again the lesson was learned that paper gains are a mirage. The giant paper pyramid was clearly visible for everyone to see. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:26 | 1711045 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What, the 75% Borrow and Consume economic model of the US was doomed from the start then? Hard to believe!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:06 | 1710970 sultan_selim
sultan_selim's picture

This is the best analysis of the EFSF debacle that I've read so far. 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:07 | 1710977 blueridgeviews
blueridgeviews's picture

Whether it is important to avoid a default???? First you have to ask: is it important to whom? The regular Joe or the bankers and their minion politicians?

IMO, if their are no defaults and a purge of all the bad debt then the powers that be are going to tie everyone to the debt anchor, throw it overboard, and everyone, except the people holding the anchor line, will be sunk (bankers and politicians will be holding the anchor line).

I for one am getting a headache listening to these self congratulatory elitists make the same argument time and again "we need more money for bailouts". What a freaking joke of a financial system! Is everyone that filled with self greed that they will let this fleecing of taxpayers and prudent savers continue? UGH!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:10 | 1710985 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

There are way too many fucking letter A's on that table.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:15 | 1711003 adr
adr's picture

Those A's are like the A's in a gradeschool that decided giving kids different grades is wrong. Even the idiot in the back that never shows up gets an A.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:28 | 1710991 Crash N. Burn
Crash N. Burn's picture

 We now interrupt your regularly scheduled Euro propaganda with a trader ON THE BBC admitting:

Europe is done, the stock markets are done, and people have about 12 months to get ready. If you haven't seen it, its

worth a peek.

As you can tell from the URL, he also admits that the SACH rules all.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:14 | 1710995 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Estonia at 0% is interesting. I think it is one of the few countries in the world with a flat-rate tax system. Hence the no debts.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:19 | 1711013 tim73
tim73's picture

Yes, they have pretty much the most advanced tax system in the world now. If you do not withdraw your profits from company, no taxes paid. Only when you withdraw, you pay taxes. Wonderful system for fast growth company. Flat tax rate about 20+ percent from salaries is also great.

Now it is still relatively poor country but it is rising fast. Their leadership made all the right moves in the 90's, totally renewing the system. Investing there could be very profitable...

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:31 | 1711082 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

I wasn't aware of that business tax regulation. My thanks.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:14 | 1710999 simone
simone's picture

Why do the jutiagroup and zerohedge send freakin spam to my email?  How does one stop such crap?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:05 | 1711237 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I don't know what the former is, and I have never once gotten an email from ZH, outside of the one informing me my account had been activated.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:14 | 1711000 killben
killben's picture

"we are so busy trying to avoid another “Lehman Moment” that we have lost sight of whether it is that important to avoid a default?"


TRY telling this to the 2 morons, Geithner and Bernanke, whose life seems to be all about saving the banks and banks only SCREW CITIZENS! Unfortunately with Obama as President they seem to be able to screw people asand when it pleases them. If you want to resolve the problems, the first sensible step would be to SACK THESE TWO!


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:50 | 1711192 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

They were hired to do something. They have been doing it. Politicians (and their appointees) will never let catastrophe just happen--until their meddling has brewed an inexorable one greater than the sum of all the others.

On a long enough timeline, entropy always wins.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:17 | 1711007 unununium
unununium's picture

The zombies are making the decisions.  They will never pull the plug themselves. 


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:18 | 1711010 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

This is why Greece needs to be removed from the EU:

They can not produce enough jobs or balance a budget, they lie about the the true nature of their debts, and they protest when you tell them to make meaningful cuts to their bloated social spending budgets...

Greece = EU cancer

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:18 | 1711011 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

CONTAGION!!!!   It's beginning to sound like a Disney movie.    Why don't we go back to the 'New Paradiem', or how about 'Peace, Man'.    You want to know what the real coming contagion will be, try on a New American Revolution.   But hell, why stop there?   Maybe because this is where the world revolution will end.   That's right, it's already in motion, and revolutions don't turn back.   A revolution is simply a governmental bankruptcy, so  you tell me.   Are we in a revolution now?    And by the time everyone realizes it, we'll be up to our ankles in rapidly rising shit.  

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:22 | 1711026 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

And the housing market continues to atrophy and the Chicago Fed Activity Index falls.

Well, this is what you get when there is a government housing oligopoly of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and FHA. Couple with Dodd-Frank, and we have serious problems with spirit.

Government control does that to a country.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:25 | 1711039 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

For all intents and purposes, there is a purpose to their plan with full malicious intent.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:31 | 1711083 Sambo
Sambo's picture

Market looks healthy. Flash crash in Yoku 18 -> 16 -> 17.25

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:41 | 1711164 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

This is what happens when collusion is allowed to persist. All of these parties did, while the bubble was inflating, work together (collude) for their mutual benefit. Now that the SHTF, collusion is no longer a benefit and all parties are seeking self preservation strategies. As a result there is no real co-operation when it is needed most. You live by the sword you die by the sword.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:43 | 1711168 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Black Monday unless "they" make some reasonably intelligent statement.

Bleak, eh?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:47 | 1711177 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

According to a poll result released today in Finland, 93% of people say "let Greece fail". Strong message to the eurofanatic Prime Minister Jyrki Katainen. People doesn't want his policies. Very interesting to see how Finnish mood will evolve when Katainen signs up more tax payer money to be burnt to delay the bitter end game. To me it's getting more and more clear that the only ones who want to "save" euro are the politicians.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:01 | 1711229 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The politicians are phrasing the situation as a failure of Greece or a failure of Portugal.  No.  Greece and Portugal will simply walk away from their debts and be happy.  What will fail will be the banksters.  Let them fail.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:32 | 1711216 Duffminster
Duffminster's picture

The coordinated take down of silver, the most efficient price lever for Gold is doing a good job of projecting in very bold terms to those who don't have the vaguest idea of Exchanges or Margin calls or Market manipulation the following impression:

Massive Deflation is On the Horizon.   When in fact it appears that near Infinite Monetization is what we are looking at based on the Telegraph article last night:  ""Multi-trillion plan to save the eurozone being prepared" i.e. infinite monetization of toxic European Debt telling us that they only want you to believe that will not be inflationary by painting the gold and silver charts???

To me, it means, don't trust the Central Planners of either government because it seems like the Politburro mentality is effective the world over now and you better take delivery of the only honest money left, physical gold and silver, which have withstood the test of time and every failed fiat currency and corrupt empire.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 10:59 | 1711223 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The world financial system is like an earthen dam with a little leak developing at the base.  The politicians can sit around and discuss remedies endlessly but the results will always be the same.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:10 | 1711254 stiler
stiler's picture

Original sin is folly in men's eyes, but it is presented as such. You should not therefore reproach me for the lack of reason in this doctrine, since I present it as being without reason. But this folly is wiser than men's wisdom, sapientius est hominibus (I Cor. 1:25). For without it, what are we to say what man is? His whole state depends on this imperceptible point. And how could he have become aware of it through his reason, since it is something contrary to his reason, and his reason, very far from finding it out through its own ways, draws back when presented with it.

Pascal, Pensees


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 11:53 | 1711433 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

we are Europe and we don't really care

about Senile Dementia of a crumbling colonial Empire

let the mofo burn...

Der Brite prahlt: "Die Welt ist mein,
die Völker Englands Knechte!"
Mit deutschem Schwert erklingt ein "Nein!",
wir fordern uns're Rechte.
Tagaus, tagein und Nacht für Nacht
beschlichen wird die Beute,
bis endlich der Torpedo kracht,
trotz Wutgeheul der Meute.
Das U-Boot kämpft für Deutschlands Ehr'
für Recht und Freiheit auf dem Meer,
drum hüte dich, Engeland,
drum hüte dich, Engeland!

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 12:26 | 1711562 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

Funny, all this talk about the euro and none about what the euro is for, why the EU was created in the first place.

- Eliminate currency transfer arb issues.

- Create a captive credit sphere than benefits lenders of the new currency.

- Create something to swap for crude oil bypassing currency transfer arb issues ... (why the Brits and Norway did not enter the Eurozone, North Sea oil they had).

Oil turns to be too expensive for EU mechanisms to cope. Something is not paid for and it is ... crude oil?

No, debts!

Here is the problem, any restructuring must include paying less for crude which means using less crude, a LOT less crude, say 50% less crude which is A LOT LESS CRUDE.

That is the real problem, because the fuel bill is too high, the money left over isn't enough to cover the credit bill. Even after restructuring, the fuel bill is still too high.


Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:22 | 1711864 Kilgore Trout
Kilgore Trout's picture

Upon reading this headline, my robot trading algo immediately went long Seagrams and shorted Tyson.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 13:43 | 1711938 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

if the good book is too much to handle, then clearly we have a catastrophe of biblical for giddier minds, let me quote the sage lyricist:

humpty dumpty sat on a wall
humpty dumpty had a great fall
all the kings horses and all the kings men
couldn't put humpty together again.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 04:44 | 1831018 karmete
karmete's picture

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