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Sprott Describes The Greatest Trade Of All Time

Tyler Durden's picture




 

From Kevin Bambrough of Sprott Asset Management (pdf)

 

 

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Fri, 08/19/2011 - 22:47 | 1580023 Josephus
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I <3 u eric

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:19 | 1580261 takeaction
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Ron Pauls Birthday Money Bomb!!

https://secure.ronpaul2012.com/?sr=dp1

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 01:02 | 1580315 weinerdog43
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Oh no!  A factual article where government made a great descision.  What will the children (like Ron Paul) think?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:25 | 1580444 AnarchyInc
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How very straussian of you to say that defrauding and robbing millions of people is a "good decision."  Shame sir

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:44 | 1580744 IBelieveInMagic
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What has to be recognized is that the US has provided in return (to other commodity importing countries such as China) is the intangible security of a relatively smoothly functioning commodity flow from commodity surplus countries thereby avoiding blood and treasure for all commodity importing countries (who would otherwise have had to fight to secure those supplies). This has to be properly valued (manifests itself in the value of the USD) to get a complete understanding of the trade equation.

The benefit to the US as enforcer of this system is the previlege to consume energy way beyond it's means. Yes, the system is not fair to everyone but it is what it is -- the reality is that just because there is valuable commodities in a country, does not automatically ensure benefits to that country (that country has to be able to defend it). Very brutal reality.

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:12 | 1580822 SipOnSodapop
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in 2012 democrats will run on "Driving the Economy Straight Into Hell". It was reckless for democrats to downgrade US to AA+

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:51 | 1580926 Are you kidding
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It's good to be the king!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:50 | 1581263 Ahmeexnal
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Yes it is.

Until your head drops into a basket.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 07:40 | 1583162 RafterManFMJ
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What if it's a basket of currencies?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:40 | 1581058 Confused
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 relatively smoothly functioning commodity flow from commodity surplus countries thereby avoiding blood and treasure for all commodity importing countries (who would otherwise have had to fight to secure those supplies).

 

Sorry. Aren't we, and more importantly, haven't we, been doing this......for quite some time now? We just call it something different (it ends with all sorts of -isms) 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:39 | 1581133 IBelieveInMagic
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The US makes the investment in blood and treasure... read endless wars in Middle East to keep the oil flowing. This is the price of our levels of current gluttony.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:50 | 1581087 FreedomGuy
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Actually, two myths are at work in this article. First, the myth that paper currencies are ever actually worth anything. If they were truly backed up by goods, services, labor output or anything like that you could not print and creat them/money at will as banks and the Federal Reserve do. They are not worth anything but it is a game of trust that always winds down to the true value of zero. It's a game of "We will take your fiats if you take ours and we promise not to print more than you do...unless it suits our goals". So trading more of our fiat for real stuff is a winner every time. We can also leverage the stupid countries that use fixed exchange rates to get more of their stuff and export our inflation to them.

Second, one of the biggest myths and misconceptions in the general public is the trade deficit. They don't exist, ever. What the trade deficit measures is only one thing, currency flows. That has some value because currencies must be exchanged and they can build up. However, if a farmer in India decides to buy a half million dollars worth of farm equipment from John Deere, JD and the US receive $500k in currency but the farmer has the equipment. The trade is always exactly even. Now the farmer produces twice as many crops, charges 2/3 the price and is way more productive and profitable. Yet, the squawking heads in print and TV might scream about an Indian trade deficit. Didn't happen.

Put is another way, you run a trade deficit with Walmart, Home Depot, Kroger's, your hair salon, etc. Yet, you still prosper. How is that possible? The reason is you get goods and services equal in value to what you spend. Other people run deficits with your company but it all evens out in the end. The only thing you need worry about is getting good value for your money.

We have an entire world driven by phony numbers like trade deficits, GDP's which include government spending and so on. It leads to more bad decisions, pain and misallocation of resources than anything else in this world.

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:43 | 1583474 Common_Cents22
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I wish I could print money.  I'd run a trade deficit with Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini and everyone else, giving them more and more less valuable IOU's.   Brilliant!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 15:28 | 1581763 mkkby
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Good post, Magic.  But that doesn't justify privatizing the profits and socializing the losses of a few privileged players.  That is simply dirty corruption, which should be routed out by the world's "police force".  It has essentially turned a valuable enforcer into a gangster which everyone will oppose.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:44 | 1582079 IBelieveInMagic
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Ah, I see your objection is to the uneven distribution of the loot and not to the actual looting! It appears many on this forum feel likewise -- it is the issue of honor among thieves.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:19 | 1582013 trav7777
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we've also traded our entire manufacturing base for the goods that we used to manufacture.  And the execs of those corporations got filthy rich

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:50 | 1582100 IBelieveInMagic
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That was part of the arrangement -- the third world gets the jobs but meanwhile we get to overconsume valuable commodities, that would grow increasingly scarce by the time the third world gets ready to upgrade their lifestyle and increase consumption -- brain child of very strategic thinkers like Henry Kissinger.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 05:14 | 1583071 Antipodeus
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Duplicate


 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 05:08 | 1583090 Antipodeus
Antipodeus's picture

In other realities that is often called a 'protection racket'.


Sat, 08/20/2011 - 01:21 | 1580339 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Another fantastic piece of work from eric sprott. Keep it up.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.com/

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:42 | 1580773 thesapein
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He just had a great interview by King World News, available today. Also, he sat down with James Turk during the GATA convention last week, available at GoldMoney's video's page.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 22:48 | 1580025 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Frightening statisics. I look at my federal reserve notes and am depressed. But then I pull out my token one oz. gold maple, and it makes me feel better. Much, much better. Au - investment of the millenium.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 22:53 | 1580036 Mister Minsk
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You Amerikans had it too good!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 22:59 | 1580047 ViewfromUnderth...
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you never know what you got 'til it's gone...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:32 | 1580154 sitenine
sitenine's picture

All your reserve currency are belong to us, bitchez!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:05 | 1580234 masterinchancery
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And you can paper your bathroom with it.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 02:50 | 1580403 Gavrikon
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And the softer it gets, the nicer it becomes for wiping your ass.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:46 | 1580714 living on the edge
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What we have all witnessed is the con of the century or actually the millenia. These psychopaths need to be gathered up and dealt with. No fiat currency will be spared and gold/silver need to be purchased for protection.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:04 | 1581127 IBelieveInMagic
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The gold trade is good until a new arrangement is agreed to by G20 -- the appreciation of precious metals is indicative of level of distrust among countries -- but the alternative to coming up with a new arrangement (not necessarily reflecting fairness but what countries are willing to live with) is disasterous wars. Let us hope we can agree to workable arrangement rather than more destructive settlements.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:20 | 1582016 trav7777
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maybe the century but not any larger than the Sterling Bill, which was the lynchpin upon which the entire Imperial power of the British rested.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:05 | 1580803 topcallingtroll
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You are right about that.

Most Americans don't realize our wealth is from our WRC status.  However they also don't realize that our loss of jobss and industry is also from that status.

  The future we will have the worst of both worlds.  No industry and no WRC.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:04 | 1580959 unky
unky's picture

Very unlike Hannah Montana which has the best of both worlds ;- )

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:02 | 1580058 perchprism
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I can't click on it to expand it, and the PDF file "cannot be found".  So, I can't read it.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:24 | 1580127 Esso
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Click on the box to the right of "Scribd" at the bottom of the document (view in fullscreen).

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:03 | 1580059 reader2010
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However , Jim Rogers thinks the greatest of trade of all time is farmland. Here is what he said recently, 

I have frequently told people that one of the best investments in the world will be farmland.

You've got to buy in a place where it rains, and you have to have a farmer who knows what he's doing. If you can do that, you will make a double whammy because the crops are becoming more valuable. - in nzherald.co.nz

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:26 | 1580140 Poor Grogman
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I respect Jim rogers opinion.BUT....

 I agree with him in general, but with due respect, it has always been more profitable to trade the commodity rather than produce it.

That is unless you can control

1. Commodity prices.

2. Rainfall (amount AND timing)

3. Government interference (Rates, Land TAx, Environmental regulation, animal welfare issues)

4. Price and availability of input costs (including fuel, water, and labour)

5 Foreign competition (including changes to import export rules subsidies protectionism etc:)

But apart from that go for it.

 

Spoken from experience, with a hat tip for the man on the land.

 

 

 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:33 | 1580165 reader2010
reader2010's picture

"more profitable to trade the commodity rather than produce it."

 

Yes and no. In a world of shortage of supplies, producers can have a upper hand. Take a trip down to Brazil, you will have a front seat to witness multinationals from US, Japan, China and India trying to overbid each other to get delivery contracts signed by soybean farmers even before seeds are sowed.  

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:42 | 1580181 Poor Grogman
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I know plenty of farmers who have gone into debt deeply to plant large crops for contacts that weren't worth shit. When the multinational decided that it had fulfilled its downstream production capacity.

If they need 200 tonnes for a processing plant do you think they will contract for that exact amount?

How about contracts for 300 tonnes just to make sure we have enough for the factory?

Read the fine print and learn.

It is always the little guy that gets screwed.

SAD...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:52 | 1580210 GFKjunior
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You're right. But it can happen under a lot simpler than circumstances than a supply chain rip off, what is farmland worth if you have a drought and heat wave like do in Texas right now?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:39 | 1580219 Poor Grogman
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You can do everything exactly as it should be done for ten straight years, but if the seasons and markets are against you....

What is there to show for it?

Just more debt....

 

http://www.news.com.au/business/cattle-industry-reeling-over-live-export...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:57 | 1580218 reader2010
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In Brazil,  multinationals actually provide funding with ultralow interest trying to overbid each other.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:59 | 1580223 Poor Grogman
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Great a new form of debt slave is born.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:03 | 1580229 reader2010
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The Chinese have been offering 0% interest to get their contracts signed.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:11 | 1580245 Poor Grogman
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That might work well for the Chinese if they revalue their currency between planting and harvest while paying in local currency.

But seriously there is just way too many variables that the average investor cannot control.

Just saying.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:18 | 1580255 Ahmeexnal
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China will pay Brazilian farmers with worthless USD.

Brazilian farmers should demand only gold&silver as payment.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:23 | 1580690 falak pema
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Recycled fiats running on ethanol, Italiana cars, chinese entrepreneurs and US oligarchs burning inflated money to feed favella slaves. Nice scenario of next round of "global" trade to hit Sud Amerrika as Norte is fukufukked with fallout, black urban mobs and broken down infrastructure; with muni buro structures that look like Bengladeshi led functionaries.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:11 | 1580734 bill1102inf
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Too bad Brazillians live like kings with US Fiat.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:55 | 1581285 Ahmeexnal
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1% of brazilians might live like kings.

The rest live in favelas.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:23 | 1582023 trav7777
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no, they don't.  I can see you've never been to Brasil

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 19:50 | 1582353 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

I can see you've never been to a favela.

Don't worry. The favela will come to you.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 20:40 | 1582471 trav7777
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yeah actually I have...and you have still never been to brazil if you believe that 99% of the population lives in favelas

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 01:31 | 1580183 sitenine
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Agreed.  In addition, subsidies must also be considered in the equation.  Ethanol for instance.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 02:04 | 1580373 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

It all depends if you're going to use farmland as business or as the ultimate hedge of a total collapse.

If Jim means farming for business, it is tough indeed, just like any other business of perishable goods, especially if you pre-sign contracts.  

Farmland in S. America with a farmhouse can be obtained inexpensively and the locals will be more than happy to farm it for absentee owners, in exchange of food, shelter and a few other living necesities. You visit in the summer when fruit are in season, in the fall when the wine is ready and in the spring when the suckling piglets and baby lambs on the spit are available.

During S. American winter, it's summer in Europe. Time to sip capucchino in Marbella/Puerto Banus in June, dock your sailboat in Fiscardo Cephalonia in July and back to Portillo Chile for skiing in August. (It's just too hot everywhere else.)  

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 04:16 | 1580480 falak pema
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Do you have a spare place on your boat?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:59 | 1581294 Ahmeexnal
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Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it's mistakes.

Farmland will be worthless.

Remember Rome.

Farmers were severely taxed for their produce. They started to grow only what they would consume themselves. The politicos then decided to tax them on what they SHOULD produce based on acreage. What did the farmers do? They abandoned their land and moved to the cities where they became thieves/beggars.

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 16:12 | 1581871 kreso
kreso's picture

Dear Sir,

You seem to be wrong at least about ancient Rome:
" In the countryside people attached themselves to the estates of the wealthy to gain some protection from state officials and tax collectors. These estates, the beginning of feudalism, mostly operated as closed systems, providing for all their own needs and not engaging in trade at all."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Roman_Empire#Michael_Rostovtzeff.2C_Ludwig_von_Mises.2C_and_Bruce_Bartlett

Kind Regards,

Kreso

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:26 | 1582039 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I have made reference to this phenomenon previously...and what better statement of how big gov socialism leads inevitably to concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands.  As night follows day.

Those who could not pay the taxes to support the dole and empire ended up having to sell to stronger and stronger hands.  These people became noble families some of which still exist to this day.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 19:56 | 1582368 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

wikipedia should not be taken as the absolute reference.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-7.html

The Fall of Rome

Constantine (308-37 A.D.) continued Diocletian's policies of regimenting the economy, by tying workers and their descendants even more tightly to the land or their place of employment (Jones 1958). For example, in 332 he issued the following order:

Any person in whose possession a tenant that belongs to another is found not only shall restore the aforesaid tenant to his place of origin but also shall assume the capitation tax for this man for the time that he was with him. Tenants also who meditate flight may be bound with chains and reduced to a servile condition, so that by virtue of a servile condemnation they shall be compelled to fulfill the duties that befit free men [Jones 1970: 312].

Despite such efforts, land continued to be abandoned and trade, for the most part, ceased (Rostovtzeff 1926). Industry moved to the provinces, basically leaving Rome as an economic empty shell; still in receipt of taxes, grain and other goods produced in the provinces, but producing nothing itself. The mob of Rome and the palace favorites produced nothing, yet continually demanded more, leading to an intolerable tax burden on the productive classes. [13]

In the fifty years after Diocletian the Roman tax burden roughly doubled, making it impossible for small farmers to live on their production (Bernardi 1970: 55). [14] This is what led to the final breakdown of the economy (Jones 1959). As Lactantius (1984: 13) put it:

The number of recipients began to exceed the number of contributors by so much that, with farmers' resources exhausted by the enormous size of the requisitions, fields became deserted and cultivated land was turned into forest.


Sat, 08/20/2011 - 07:07 | 1580603 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I am a top hand at swabbing the deck.  Too old to climb the rigging tho.  Can be counted on to repel boarders.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:43 | 1580711 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Raw land (enough for farm rate taxes) with no buildings and rent out to cover taxes plus a little is a good investment/ hedge. Locate in a way that it will take 20-30 years for developement to reach. Locate in a country where it will not be taken if there is a coup (are there any left?).

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 08:04 | 1583179 Watauga
Watauga's picture

I am certain that I have never read a more pretentious post.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:39 | 1580176 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Gonzalo Lira hits this one out of the park.  Farm land is just another "anything but gold" investment.

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011/05/spg-supplement-is-farmland-smart...

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:05 | 1580233 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Thanks for the hat tip.

Left an office in a large metro area in '06 for 200+ aces and a vegetable operation. We own all all aspects from production to retail, debt free. There is no future in wholesale for the small grower, huge corporations have taken over all of that. The weather and environment is always a factor but we can make a living while supporting the ultimate shtf preparedness. The only way one can do it IMO is with no debt and good marketing, As I said.....left an office. But it can be done and although I was bitched out just yesterday by a ZH,er I respect"....... No amount of gold or silver can buy the piece of mind I have.

Nice to finally have a topic I can post about with experience.

Full disclosure: I grow vegetables, not commodities. I receive no subsidies and expect none in a fare market. I grow food and sell it directly to the consumer.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 01:59 | 1580372 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

+1

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 07:10 | 1580605 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Damned radical terrorist. How do you expect the continuation of Fractional Reserve Lending and perpetual growth to continue with that attitude. 

PS. Are you hiring?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 07:43 | 1580643 SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

+1,  it takes courage to do what you are doing.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:53 | 1580784 thesapein
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Sounds like he has less to fear now. Sitting on his own land, reading ZH, producing enough food to barter with others, trading extra for metals, this guy has it about as good as it gets, IMO

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:59 | 1580945 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

Until some tough guy decides to take it away...  Just saying...

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:46 | 1581073 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

And a tool steel spine with a hinge in the middle

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:34 | 1580158 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Jim Rogers is cluless on this. Maybe if he spent a little less time dog f*cking , he could go visit some farms. Farmers have had a party bidding up land with these low rates just like everyone else.

Here is a nice little 5 acre farm in Canada for  $1,799,000

http://www.equineacres.ca/abbotsford.html/details-20243453#viewtop

here is a 66 acre farm in Canada for $4,800,000  $72,000 an acre

http://www.bcfarmandranch.com/index.cfm?method=property.propertydrilldow...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:47 | 1580197 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

if you think a horse farm in BC is expensive stay out of Wellington FL or Potomac Maryland! LOL!!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:56 | 1580215 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

I agree.  Speculating in farmland is a very bad idea.  However, buying some for a survival location when SHTF is a whole different story.  If ownership rights for mortgages are lost in 'good' times, can you imagine what will happen to farmland in the very worst of times?  Basically, whoever can defend the land will own it.  Not some former paper billionaire 2000 miles away hiding in his bunker.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 02:55 | 1580409 Seer
Seer's picture

Exactly!  That's why I have a mortgage on Ag land that I'm living on.  Got low interest rates and currently have a reasonable mortgage payment after parting with fiat dollars.  Meanwhile I sit on my PM hedge, which, with every passing day, is getting closer to being able to cover the balance on my mortgage; however, I am patient, and should it happen in the future that there's no one around to collect my mortgage payments then I won't be making them and I'll still have my PM.  It's the best, and most honest (still honoring my contracts) hedge that I, of my modest means, have figured.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:05 | 1580962 Magnum
Magnum's picture

very cool. my situation is identical. gold at $2300 and i can sell my stack and pay off all mortgage.  not sure i will sell ag to pay mortgage all at once though.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 05:38 | 1580533 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

My mother in law owned a 250 acre farm near Severna Park, Md. The farm had been in the family for may years and was breaking even or making a little money.

The State of Md, along with Anne Arundel County, confiscated the farm through emminent domain and built a community college.

Black Swans can pop up anywhere.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:50 | 1581077 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

So if you bought farm land 5 or 10 years ago when Rogers first recommended buying farms you would be laughing all the way to the bank.

If you  got into gold and silver when he first recommended them you would be doing OK, likewise commodities .

Don't blame him because his tips are no longer fresh, 5 to 10 years later.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:58 | 1583509 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

Rogers is very very good for macro long term stuff, He is early when early is the right time to be.  He is not a nimble short term trader and he always says that.  The average person would be tremendously better off if they took his advice on long term trends.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:33 | 1580163 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I think not.

We've had agriculture for thousands of years- it's the first step to a society, not the savior of a modern world.  While it is absolutely critical that land continue to be cultivated, there are many millions, if not billions, of people who are able to cultivate arible land effectively.

What makes that land capable of supporting the world's population is not the ability to grow some crops- it is the power that grants the ability to a small handful of people to manage that capacity.  

Look at it this way- if you own a farm, you need to be able to defend it.  How much land can you hold in the face of desperate masses?  No more than is allowed by your line of sight, and the effective range of your ammunition.  Anything more is subject to destruction by the starving.  A person whose children are nothing but spindly limbs on distended stomachs is not going to listen to reason, and wait until the crops are ready for harvest- they will strip the land and chew on the shoots.

So how do you trade that?

I think there is a way, though we have neither compass nor crystal ball for these times.  Energy.  Black, pumping, pulsating energy that can run tractors and electrify fences.  Energy for security lights and irrigation.  We can no longer feed the Earth with teams of oxen and plows- and any attempt will mean death on a scale none of us can really comprehend.

Game it a different way.  What if you had an oil well?  A hyrdoelectric dam?  A coal mine?  How many farmers with small stakes could you support?  How many homes could you heat?  What is that worth?  Even if money no longer existed, I would imagine you could get every farmer to give thier first born sons as soldiers to protect your investment, if you could keep their lights on and the engines of their tractors running.

Farming is important, yes- but the trade of all time it is not.  That trade belongs to cheap, plentiful energy and the knowledge needed to harness it.  It is so valuable that there need be no losers in the trade.  If you consider gasoline, you have the whole story in a nutshell- yes, we wail and moan when a gallon of gas goes up $.50, but that does not change the fact that for virtually nothing, there are men who provide the blood that was able to change the world.  There has to be another source, and even if there is not, controlling the sources that already are is priceless.

If you want the trade of all time, find a replacement for oil.  Anything else is just the rights to a diminished feudal lordship, and I'd rather be a modern American slave than a king from a thousand years ago.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 00:24 | 1580267 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

I respectively disagree with you. Although I agree that this is the case with many farms and much arable land, there are some of us who have chosen/created environs to withstand the onslaught of the horde. Time will tell. With or without oil we won't be hungry.......You?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:46 | 1580775 falak pema
falak pema's picture

If that post is addressed to my preceding post, I don't see the link. You've lost me on this. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:14 | 1581583 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

It's good that you disagree with me- you'll note above that my idea of a good trade for these times is predicated on folks like you doing just what you are doing, namely operating and protecting working farms.  It's a symbiotic relationship that is good for everyone.  

As far as my personal hunger goes, no worries.  We have low enough population in relation to wildlife and enough arable land in my area that my family, barring a complete ecological collapse where all bets are off, will be fine.  I've got a year's worth of food stored, and ten years worth of hunting rounds, along with supplies to reload for a long time after that.  Survival strategy can be hunter-gatherer rather than agrarian if you are in a woodland area, without too much trouble- without buying anything, there are acres upon acres of berries for picking, acorns as grain, fiddleheads for greens, deer, bear, rabbits, squirrel, fish, game fowl, and any other number of things made out of meat within easy reach for a guy with a shotgun or a snare, and few around to enforce hunting regulations (though as long as the licenses remain within reach, I'm not inclined to poach.)  Given that, a half-acre garden is adequate for filling in the blanks.  This was fur-trapping country for a long time, and many men made it in these parts with only what they could carry on their backs for decades.

But that is neither here nor there.  Assuming that you have any excess production at all, what would you trade for it?  Sure, there are things like cloth and salt that would be obvious moves, but if you have access to stored energy like natural gas or even trailers full of charged deep-cycle batteries, I think it would be an obvious boon to any farm.  How much is it worth to be able to move your hay with an electric forklift, rather than feeding an extra half-dozen mouths attached to strong backs?  Personally, I'm not counting on oil- it's an undeniably excellent fuel, but even if it never runs out, distribution could break down, and we have no refineries in my neck of the woods.  

My favorite two, based on my location, are nat gas and hydroelectric power.  Either one will be incredibly useful to any farmer (or other human being) especially when the winters touch -30F, as they are known to do here.  I'd prefer nuclear batteries, but there's about zero chance of that happening, so I don't think about it much.  I don't think the debate is so much about the relative value of the tactics planet-wide so much as they are location specific- much as water would be a better trade to control if you lived in a drought-prone area.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 02:26 | 1580382 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Necessity and riches is motivation enough for future chemists and scientists to find oil replacements. Two things come to mind:

  1. A natural chemical process (just like photosynthesis) to extract hydrogen from water with minimal energy input.
  2. Since all six leptons and six quarqs in the quantum theory have been discovered or theorized, you can breakdown the composition of all minerals, ore and other substances including petroleum products and design a process by which you can recompose these using the quantum theory ot the TOE (theory of everything)

They also must donate the pattent to the world. Goldman Sacks should not have access to that one and governments should not be able to tax it.

Someone has to take this challenge. And yes IT IS POSSIBLE.

  

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:31 | 1580448 AnarchyInc
AnarchyInc's picture

Nice half-baked plans...let me tell you why they wouldn't work:

1) Water is an extremely scarce resource in much of the world. If people think using food for fuel is dumb (and it is), then using water for fuel is even dumber.

2) To recompose something you have to have the energy to break it up.  The energy in would be greater than energy out....that's all fine and well if you have something awesome like fusion energy...but if not then you're just throwing away energy.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 04:14 | 1580479 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Water is NOT a scarce resource, POTABLE water is!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:36 | 1580765 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Currently there is much research for bringing down the cost of sea water desalination...But thermodynamics is what it is. Reverse osmosis and cogeneration at large scale to bring down unit costs and reduce energy consumption. Long way to go...

Personally I am not a great believer in using NUCLEAR to "boil water"...Einstein said that.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 13:09 | 1581319 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

They also must donate the pattent to the world.

Donate it for "the common good"?

What if they don't want to "donate" their hard work? Will you force them to "donate the pattent", like Hank Rearden was forced to donate Rearden Steel?

What are you going to donate to the world? Your "farmland"? Your PMs?

Why should they donate their minds to the likes of you, who only demand of others according to their abilities, to satisty your needs?

ps. it's patent, not pattent.  and it's quark, not quarq.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:55 | 1581104 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Go to Asia and ask either the Chinese or Indians whether Water is NOT a scarce resource. Their answer might surprise you becaue they're gonna fight each other for access to water in the next 20 years. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:37 | 1580882 epwpixieq-1
epwpixieq-1's picture

"The energy in would be greater than energy out"

Again, we see the old maxima, speaking without understanding.  This is ONLY true in a CLOSED systems. Please whenever you read, quote, and repeat something make sure that you understand it before repeating it.

A simple question: What is a perpetual motion machine, you probably have the answer in your mind, so I will save you that.

Now think that an electron is, beside of being a nice concept for explaining a physical phenomena, according to our understanding and theories it fits the IDEA of the perpetual motion machine. Well it has been orbiting the atom for about 14 billion years or so. This at least makes sense if you subscribe for the standard view of the creation of the universe ( this one is a whole chapter of discussion by itself ).

The only reason it can do that if it take the energy ( to rotate ) from somewhere else, otherwise it will be ... well a perpetual motion machine. Where from ???? Well there is a lot of info on that matter, you just have to research it. Hint just do not look in the standard text books.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:29 | 1581187 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You clearly have never taken Quantum mechanics... electrons are not little balls orbiting a nucleus... Motion as classically defined means nothing in the quantum world...

Hell, if you would babbling shit about the Casimir Effect, I might give it second thought....

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:56 | 1581690 AnarchyInc
AnarchyInc's picture

And he criticizes me for reading and repeating things without understanding...go ahead and buy that perpetual motion machine off of the internet.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 20:53 | 1582493 trav7777
trav7777's picture

as well he should have...his statement about QM is correct

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 20:52 | 1582487 Koffieshop
Koffieshop's picture

I think you are confusing some things.

Objects in motion in vacuum, just like the electron cloud of a stable isotope, stay the way they are when you do not add or extract energy from them.

Movement does not require or produce energy, acceleration and friction do.
The electron cloud does not require or produce energy, nuclear fission and fusion do.

The idea that movement requires energy is a misconception based on not understanding friction.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 04:49 | 1580511 gwar5
gwar5's picture

String theory is still a looong way off from producing tangible goods.

 

There is a formula for making hydrocarbons and oil:

CaC03 + FeO2 + H2O  @2000 F   @ 200K psi = hydrocarbons, laymans terms;   Granite + iron + water  @2000 degrees  @ 200K psi = oil

 

These conditions exist in the Earth's mantle. This has been done in the lab.

.

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:02 | 1580627 Bob
Bob's picture

I was surprised last night by a history channel show on which GOLD was being created from mercury.  That's right: GOLD, bitchez. 

All it takes is mercury and . . . a nuclear reactor.  Yield was low, using a small university reactor, but it was real gold. 

Much cheaper to dig it out of the ground, though.  For now. 

Unless you have a spare reactor.  I had to wonder, though, if there are parties who have just that and are putting them to use.  

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:27 | 1580755 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yeh, so investing a billion dollars or so lets you produce a few micrograms of gold a day....You are better off panning a stream in the Sierra Nevada....

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:01 | 1580794 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The Russians were experimenting with this process.  They calculated that you could produce gold more cheaply than mining it with but one caveat.  The gold contained very hot isotopes.  Sadly you could have your gold you just couldn't touch it.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:23 | 1580845 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'll call BS.... there is no way in the world anyone would build a reactor to produce gold, hot gold or not...

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:01 | 1580948 toady
toady's picture

They already have reactors, they would not need to build one. Now, would retrofitting to make gold be difficult?

And you wouldn't need to touch the stuff. How often does the stuff in Ft Knox get touched?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:25 | 1581176 Bob
Bob's picture

According to my TeeVee, the transformation was first done in the 1920's.  The guys I saw actually doing it seemed to just drop a vial of mercury on a string down a hole into their reactor and pulled out a few grams of gold 24 hours later. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:31 | 1581196 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Considering the first self sustaining nuclear fission pile was in ~1941 that is really impressive...

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:58 | 1581290 Bob
Bob's picture

That's TeeVee for ya.  But when was radiation discovered?  Long before.  Apparently the first guy didn't use a reactor. Or I got that part wrong . . . maybe it was the math that was done in the twenties?

Beats me.  But I don't think the History Channel was faking the gold I saw. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 13:01 | 1581301 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Radioactivity was discovered in 1896....(don't shoot me if I am off by a year or two)

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 13:30 | 1581358 Bob
Bob's picture

Yeah, I just looked for the piece I saw, or anything similar, at youtube but came up with a whole lotta garbage. 

According to wiki, it was first done in 1941. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals

It would be interesting to find out the cost.  The guys I saw doing it just shrugged and said "it costs you $200 a day to rent our reactor and you get only a couple grams of gold."

Makes me wonder what they're doing with that reactor when it's not being rented out . . . and what might be buried in their backyards!

I mean, a couple grams is now worth about $130.  Who could resist pulling in their line and dropping in a newly mercury "baited" one at quitting time every day?

EDIT: Now I'm wondering if it was grams or micrograms . . . sorry, guys!  I think it was grams, it looked like grams. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 16:33 | 1581903 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

There are 39 isotopes of gold with half lives ranging from nanoseconds to years.  Most of the isotopes of gold would fission back to lead.  All it requires is lots of 9 MEV neutrons (hot but not too hot).  The Russian calculation showed that there was a possible breakeven, in terms of energy, between gold production via transmutation and gold production via mining.  It would kinda be fun to send Hugo Chavez "hot gold" which he would certify and then find out that after a few months in the vault it was all lead.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:48 | 1581079 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Longest half life = 186 days.  Just wait it out.  Trouble is, your gold will cool down after fractional reserve scams start again under the new gold standard so you won't be able to sell it for nearly as much as you thought you could.  Maybe try for other precious metals which will have a huge runup at the top of the bubble?  This is an interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:20 | 1580743 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

For shits and giggles, do the following:

Compute the surface area at which these conditions exist in the earths mantle, and a reasonable assumption of the fraction of that surface that can participate (i.e. the earth is not made of only this stuff)

Now take the measured rate for the chemical reactions you cite to occur given the relative fraction of the inputs.

Compute the rate  of production....

Now diffuse the produced hydrocarbons towards the surface taking into account the known rate of dissociation from high temperature.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:25 | 1580751 falak pema
falak pema's picture

and then string becomes Rope...if not Dope.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:00 | 1581117 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Or you can start with garbage, heat it to 250 degrees C and turn it into oil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:26 | 1581177 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep, you can do that.... Suggest you look up EROEI and scalability.  If you are really interested

http://robertrapier.wordpress.com/category/thermal-depolymerization/

and the various links therein....

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 20:56 | 1582501 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Flak, stop SHITTING on people with your goddamned maths and thermodynamics and shit.

You are part of the problem because you just don't BELIEVE hard enough.  We need EVERYONE to wish TOGETHER as strenuously as possible, and only THEN, with the power of imagination and the human mind, anything will be possible, even the impossible.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 23:16 | 1582759 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

ok sports fans, if the thread's not dead, rip this one to shreds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wAwmvd8ATc

please tell me why this one won't work even when the one thing this planet's got a surplus of is tires.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 00:04 | 1582830 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Warren Buffet invested in that. 1st article is from `03.

Anything Into Oil

http://discovermagazine.com/2003/may/featoil/article_view?b_start:int=2&...

 

Greenstar Recycling, Vadxx Energy Form JV to Produce Crude Oil from Plastics

http://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=29679

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:34 | 1581647 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

If that's true, it's encouraging. That's the sort of thing that can be put into large-scale industrial production with existing technology, and we're not in any danger of running out of granite or iron anytime soon.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:25 | 1580750 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Re: #1  There are technologies that can do this, it looks very much like solar panels, problem is that platium catalysts are needed, so it is pretty damn expensive...  You are far, far better off using solar to directly generate electricity.   

Re: #2, it is very clear that you do not have a fucking clue what you are talking about... cease and desist

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:50 | 1580920 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Back in the early 70's my friends were wondering what those black lines on the boxes of products were. I told them that they will be using laser scanners to identify the product and it will be connected to the cash register and the inventory re-ordering data base. What I got from them is exactly what you are accusing Oracle about not having a clue. That's narrow minded and arrogand. have a nice day however. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:39 | 1581053 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Well having a Ph.D. in particle physics does allow one to comment on such things as quarks.... Go fuck yourself

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:15 | 1581074 Bob
Bob's picture

We've got 3 D printers now.  How long before scientists will be literal alchemists--assuming free energy?

I'm looking forward to a car built of carbon using a printer . . . and forget bricks, gimme a house of corrugated buckypaper. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:33 | 1581202 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

3-D printers? Now that is a non-sequitur.

They are cute, but there is limitiations and how does this relate to alchemy?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 13:49 | 1581414 Bob
Bob's picture

Just wild and whacky shit with potential for the future.  With you being a physicist and all. 

Here's a real nice piece on a 3 D printer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QP73uTJApw

I found it mind-boggling.  Who woulda knowed this stuff was being done?  And is commercially available at a relatively modest cost?

It seems to me that with continued development of the printer technology, which looks fairly solid already, it's just a matter of developing the right "inks."  And how long will it take until nano-carbons become routinely manageable?

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:56 | 1581688 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

"I found it mind-boggling.  Who woulda knowed this stuff was being done?  And is commercially available at a relatively modest cost?"

Yes, it's a neat toy.  And would be excellent for making prototypes to pitch ideas to potential investors- but what you're not going to do is print yourself out an engine, put in in your car and go to work.  

Lots of us knew it was being done, and also know what it's limitations are.  I've prototyped plenty of projects that were first "proved out" on a 3D printer, and then moved into production where the original design team was shocked to discover that metal does not behave the same way as glued-together powder.  That being said, it still got them much closer than just guessing would have, and worth the effort.

It's just another tool, not a miracle machine.  Though for the fun of it, check this one out- I thought it was neat as hell, too.  Little CNC machine for wood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHzKJ3yQ0jU

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 19:13 | 1582266 Bob
Bob's picture

Look Ma, no hands!  That is cool.  I was looking at something similar in a plasma cutter--great for aluminum. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 15:43 | 1581809 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I found something better.

Doesn't need resin either, just some Maxwell House.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18DvO_VDiM

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 22:24 | 1582660 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

Bob, fuck ZCorp, meet RepRap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUB1WgiAFHg

open source or die a slave.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 06:54 | 1583132 Bob
Bob's picture

Open source 4ever!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:09 | 1580811 thesapein
thesapein's picture

Seems to me you're borrowing some paper theories that are worthless. Many experiments have already shown that water can be a great fuel source, tho the paper on the topic is pretty worthless. Your jargon being amonst the worst I've seen, sorry, but being honest.

Donate a patent to the world??? That's insanity to keep supporting patents, more paper? Why can't anyone who discovers how to do something be able to do it on their own without lawyers and then thugs coming to stop them? Trash patents!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:18 | 1581155 Bob
Bob's picture

Get the guide to patents and copyrights from Nolo and you can easily--okay, after a little work--file your own. 

Truly one of the best written books I've ever read.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:46 | 1581673 thesapein
thesapein's picture

I just can't take them seriously, sorry. Patents sure are fun tho.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:29 | 1581629 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I'll add three more to the list, though all have their problems.

3. An engineered organism that can produce hexanes as a by-product from consuming waste (Not even remotely within my     ability to do, or even comment on intelligently, but there's always hope.)

4. Harnessing natural heat gradients as a source of power, either through the movement of gasses or fluids, or directly ala     thermocouples.

5. Harvesting electron flows with magnetic devices.   Again, no idea if this is a real phenominon or a widespread scam,  
    though I have the schematics for some of them, and I'll be getting to making them once I feel my own household is well
    enough prepared.

Of all of the five, #4 is the only one that I know to work, though it requires a power source.  It's value is in the flexability of that power source.  If I can get my power from anything from the sun to burning coal, that's a valuable situation.   There are a lot of flammable things on the planet.  On a larger scale, there are interesting possibilities for things like geothermal wells and even capturing the heat gradients between existing infrastructure.  (Maybe the difference in temperature between a blacktop road and the river it runs next to, or the groundwater.)

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 20:51 | 1582492 trav7777
trav7777's picture

it's possible, why?  What, because you imagined it?  ROTFL

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:08 | 1580425 Seer
Seer's picture

I think that you're over-generalizing.  Things will NOT be the same everywhere, and NOT at the same time.

"A person whose children are nothing but spindly limbs on distended stomachs is not going to listen to reason,"

So, such horribly weak people are going to overpower others?  Sorry, but history says that the bulk of such downtrodden masses end up dying quietly, often just walking along.  I spent several years in discussions of how TEOTWAWKI will play out.  The Rambo scenario sells well, but for the most part won't be materializing in any significant way: OK, possibly for a very short-term, but raging fires burn themselves out quickly.

While you're seeking the fountain of youth, er, replacement for oil (why are people searching when we have it- it's called "the sun!") I'll do what the overwhelming majority of humans have done throughout history- look to survive via subsistance farming.

As far as being a "modern American slave," this suggests stability.  Again, nothing will remain static (just as it never has).  No one has ANY idea on how something like this would go.  And, the future will pick what you'll end up being, you have little choice in the matter...  Fantasies will be much clearer to see (now days we can't seem to make the distinction between reality and fiction).

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 07:59 | 1580646 Bob
Bob's picture

Agreed that there is NO way to reliably predict how ANYTHING will go if TSHTF.  Every option has massive potential downside.  Including gold, which, if I had it, I would keep secret from everyone . . . even my wife. 

I'm inclined to think that strong social skills may be the most valuable asset of all.  With just a few rock solid friends. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:52 | 1580883 toady
toady's picture

I've been working this issue for a couple years now. I'm naturally antisocial, I am happy to stay home working in the garden. I distrust people and I'm very secretive. I had pretty much bought into the lone wolf, Rambo scenario, but I was always worried my wife and boys couldn't keep up. Luckily, my siblings are not as reclusive as I. We have developed an unspoken bond through helping each other with gardening activities, hunting, and camping trips. Through these activities we all know each others weapons, infrastructure setup, and supply levels. We also know each others friends, at least casually, to extend our informal 'group' to around 100 people over around 200 miles The best part is my brother has worked his way up the ranks at the VFW. He is on a first name basis with spooks from the Vietnam era through to troops coming home from current operations. I know many of them, if only through meeting them briefly I guess in the end there is a need to socialize, but you should keep a strong core, and everybody else at arms length.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:21 | 1581160 Bob
Bob's picture

Sounds like you're set . . . knowing the right people in advance is clearly a good idea. 

For most of us, it will come down to flexibility/social "range" when the pressure is on.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 15:03 | 1581709 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Fair, and points well taken.

Though I'm not inclined to think that subsistance farming is anything worth looking forward to.  I prefer to try and fail to maintain something resembling modern technology than to succeed in going back to the days of oxen and blacksmiths.  Just having food is not enough, especially when the plagues start popping back up, and there is no modern infrastructure to support R&D to combat them...

I know, I make a shitty bear.  I still think that we can pull something useful out of this crap heap, it's just not going to be quick or easy.  To believe otherwise makes this world no longer worth living in to me, so there's no option that allows me to just throw up my hands, say fuck it all, and go off to grow radishes until the end of my days.

If you can, great.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 11:36 | 1581048 uno2well
uno2well's picture

Or we could look at farming from another view point, from outside the box if you will (even though I fucking hate that expression). Almost everyone with a backyard or a small plot of land is capable of producing their own fruits, vegetables and protein (assorted fish, shrimp etc.) without the need for huge swathes of land, tonnes of pesticides, mega-joules of electricity or billions of gallons of h2o.

Ever heard of aquaponics? Not many people have, but do a youtube search of some of the different set-ups people have in their backyard and you'll be just as amazed as I was when I first learned of it.

Here's a great website for learning more: http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/

It's but one of many sprouting up (no pun intended) on the subject and you can learn a lot from their forum... getting this started is not difficult AT ALL! You simply need the will to do it and once it's running, it's pretty much a closed loop ecosystem. 

Live in a northern climate like I do (Canucklehead?) and think you can't produce food in the winter? Think again! Check out this guy: http://www.citrusinthesnow.com/ 

Hook a few solar panels to the roof of a greenhouse and have a couple of batteries at night and never worry about where your next meal is going to come from. The best part about this is that it's 100% organic! Don't want to feed your fish with store bought fish food? Put a couple of lights above the tank and the bugs will do the rest. 

Seriously, let's give the corporations that control our society the middle finger and start doing this shit for ourselves. 

Having said all of this, I now expect the next black swan event to occur forthwith so as to keep the flock in line... But I'm on an island and food production isn't an issue for me, neither are electricity and heat. 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 22:43 | 1582636 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"Seriously, let's give the corporations that control our society the middle finger and start doing this shit for ourselves. "

thank you for shining a feisty light into thread.   right there with you pal.   this the island you live on by chance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_Island

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:32 | 1582054 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Land Title is only as good as the rule of law.  If you dispute this, reference Rhodesia or S. Africa.  Land has been redistributed wholesale for political reasons to people who refused to cultivate it, let eveything go to shit, sold off all the equipment and wiring in the houses torn out of the walls for scrap, and let the fruit from trees rot on the ground.  Now, still in complete squalor and poverty, the politically connected are consolidating these parcels away from squatters who are moving back to the ghettos.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:38 | 1580707 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Just like Hugo Chavez nationalizing his mines our government can and will nationalize farmland. The declaration of a national (food) emergency  and an executive order in a matter of hours will unleash an army of federal agents confiscating farmland and the equipment on it. If the Farmer is lucky the corporation that wins the national contract to operate the nations farms may hire him to continue it's operation.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 13:17 | 1581356 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Yes you are completely correct, this is what they have already planned.

 

 

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 17:35 | 1582062 trav7777
trav7777's picture

people should watch Dr. Zhivago.  Besides being an all-time classic movie, it has a lot to tell you about the sanctity of property rights when "TSHTF."  The Party went around slapping notice of confiscation upon all land and real property and improvements and entrance was forbidden with a death sentence.  The good doctor returned from one of his impressments by one of the rival factions to find his town home also confiscated.

People who look at the gibs me dat culture we have now, with half the nation on the dole, and are expecting political parties to protect their rights are fools.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 19:29 | 1582299 falak pema
falak pema's picture

People should watch Dr ZH..ivago for Julie Christie. Period. And the music. Song of Lara.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:42 | 1580709 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The same Jim Rogers who said China would continue growing into the future and would be the engine to drag the world's economy out of recession?  The one who said China was definitely not in a bubble?  That Jim Rogers?

He is right about the farmland.  

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 12:05 | 1581130 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

When did he say that about China? Wasn't it 10 years ago or more? Was he right then and has been for all that time?

Don't listen to Jim Rogers. If he tells you what time it is, ten years later his answer will be wrong.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:07 | 1580071 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

Duh.

That article really reinforces some important knowledge.

Great trade, but only for the few who acquire the wealth and power to make the rules.  A lot of people will get wiped out when the show ends and the lights come on. 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:24 | 1580131 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

You're being irrationally exuberant 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:27 | 1580144 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

(snicker)

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:38 | 1580177 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You get  a +1

Thank you.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:11 | 1580086 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/194764.html

 

Sailing for publicity against Israeli crimes is becoming more common. Most recently, a retired American professor has sailed across the Atlantic Ocean from his home in Texas to the Mediterranean in memory of the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty by Israeli forces, resulting in the deaths of dozens of Americans.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 13:21 | 1581373 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Yes, those who died on the USS Liberty were saints.

Go light some candles for them, cry them a river too.

Just find some nazi blog where to post your hate and where you'll be cheered by other idiots who are blinded by hatred.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!