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Step Aside BBC "Trader": Head Of UniCredit Securities Predicts Imminent End Of The Eurozone And A Global Financial Apocalypse
Either the YesMen have infiltrated Italy's biggest, and most undercapitalied, bank, or the stress of constant, repeated lying and prevarication has finally gotten to the very people who know their livelihoods hang by a thread, and the second the great ponzi is unwound their jobs, careers, and entire way of life will be gone. Such as the head of UniCredit global securities Attila Szalay-Berzeviczy, and former Chairman of the Hungarian stock exchange, who has written an unbelievable oped in the Hungarian portal Index.hu which, frankly, make Alessio "BBC Trader" Rastani's provocative speech seem like a bedtime story. Only this time one can't scapegoat Szalay-Berzeviczy "naivete" on inexperience or the desire to gain public prominence. If someone knows the truth, it is the guy at the top of UniCredit, which we expect to promptly trade limit down once we hit print. Among the stunning allegations (stunning in that an actual banker dares to tell the truth) are the following: "the euro is “practically dead” and Europe faces a financial earthquake from a Greek default"... “The euro is beyond rescue”... “The only remaining question is how many days the hopeless rearguard action of European governments and the European Central Bank can keep up Greece’s spirits.”...."A Greek default will trigger an immediate “magnitude 10” earthquake across Europe."..."Holders of Greek government bonds will have to write off their entire investment, the southern European nation will stop paying salaries and pensions and automated teller machines in the country will empty “within minutes.” In other words: welcome to the Apocalypse...
But wait, there's more. From Bloomberg:
The impact of a Greek default may “rapidly” spread across the continent, possibly prompting a run on the “weaker” banks of “weaker” countries, he said.
“The panic escalating this way may sweep across Europe in a self-fulfilling fashion, leading to the breakup of the euro area,” Szalay-Berzeviczy added.
Szalay-Berzeviczy has just arrived in Hungary from a trip abroad and can’t be reached until later today, a UniCredit official, who asked not to be identified because she isn’t authorized to speak to the press, said when Bloomberg called Szalay-Berzeviczy’s Budapest office to seek further comment.
And now, for our European readers (first) and everyone else (next), it is really time to panic.
Full op-ed from Index.hu, google translated from Hungarian. Some of the nuances may be lost, but the message is bolded. If any one our Hungarian-speaking readers have a better translation, please forward it to us asap.
Europe's common currency is virtually dead. The euro's doomed situation. The only open question now is, that European governments and the European Central Bank's desperate rearguard action even number of days to keep the spirit in Greece. For the moment, when Athens is declared bankrupt, a "10 magnitude" earthquake will shake Europe, which will be the overture to a whole new era in the life of the old continent.
Indeed, Greece is not only bankruptcy will mean that the Greek government securities holders did not get back their money invested, but also to the interior of the state will not be able to meet its debts.
From the moment only Greek teachers, doctors, police, army, ministry and local government employees will not receive a salary, just as the seniors did not expect nyugdíjukra good time. The ATM is emptied in minutes. The local banks are stuck holding government securities, an immediate liquidity crisis, devaluation of the Greek banking system in total collapse. Thus the savings of depositors is totally wasted because the Greek government deposit insurance or guarantee was now living. Bankkártyájukról since then, not only at home will not be able to withdraw some money, but the world's only automatájából not. The benzinkutakból run out of fuel, as well as food from the grocery store. Greece is practically a full stop at least a decade of life and dramatic drop in poverty in the country as a whole.
The problem is that in this case, the disaster can not stop at the Greek border, but great speed and momentum tovagy?r?z?dik then the entire euro zone, Europe, and finally shake the world. Channel for the spread of infection, of course, such a scenario would also back the banking system. Indeed, the international banks in Greece suffered hundreds of billions of euros t?kevesztésükön too soon be forced to lock hitelkereteit other banks, which will have to do with a country where - according to investors' expectations - the Greek thunderbolt strike again.
And when the banks no longer trust each other, not to lend to each other, the international financial markets stop. This in turn means that all financial institutions left alone with clients.
Poor countries with weak banks start to panic withdrawals of retail funds. But since the retail and corporate deposits and loans are allocated in the form of inter-bank market, these banks can not borrow bridging purposes, may be an immediate liquidity crisis. This is, to all financial institutions can be put into bankruptcy, which is stable and there is no capital behind strong, creditworthy countries. European countries are now, of course, guarantee the safety of their deposits, but the collapse of the banking system would be in financial straits due to the governments of the countries whose banking systems should extend under his arm. Thus, the escalating self-fulfilling panic söpörhet way through Europe, the euro zone which then leads to disintegration.
Of course, Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy and Jose Manuel Barroso repeated daily unos-untalan to disintegration of the euro zone there is no question of the euro remains in any case, as an alternative to this would be a huge cost to all Member States. But the currency union dissolution is probably one of the main features will be managed from Brussels, it is not a process but an uninvited guest arriving as a result of financial apocalypse. The euro area break-up, timing, strength of the human factors as well as money and capital market forces and trends will define the politicians was only with us panic watching the developments as three years ago was when Lehman Brothers collapsed.
The now four-year, and is constantly raging crisis in the greedy, selfish human nature too is certainly not the banks, not brokers, not the weather and no natural disasters, but above all, and especially at any price with economic growth, power libertine policy responsible for the global elite. Namely, those legislators, the majority of whom have never been able to see through the international financial developments, therefore, the corresponding pre-crisis legislation will only have been available, when in 2008 the world has collapsed.
However, the banks should be regulated, not criminalized or stigmatized.
The American politicians, at least it has always been understood that the money and capital markets are efficient economic policy allies of the investor for the company are responsible for. In contrast, their counterparts in Europe, unfortunately, still do not understand the nature of markets, most of them think that the financial system, the ancient enemy, because it does not work the way it is dictated by their own political interests.
Was a huge mistake and irresponsibility on the part of the political elite of the international crisis in 2009, the easing of its own negligence and error concealment of public passion in order to make a scapegoat of feltüzelésével from financial institutions. When everyone knows exactly that the taxpayers 'money to government banks are not rescued, but the corporate, retail and municipal depositors' money. This was not a political decision - like, say, airlines or car manufacturers for - but a serious system troubleshooting.
The two reasons people moved their money to the bank: I want to know it is safe and hope the interest on their savings. The bank has to create the security, interests, it must produce. It will only be able to do so, it assigns to the deposits in the form of credit to where money is needed for the operation, growth and job creation. It is sufficient interest to be collected by then to be able to pay interest to depositors.
Banks are so important to the economy, fuel carriers, which in times of crisis in the economies most vulnerable points, which therefore must be protected and safeguarded at all costs. Eventually, this belátva "after the rain the rain jacket," the way Europe was born in the EU capital adequacy directive, the United Kingdom, Vickers Commission's recommendation, the United States, the Dodd-Frank Act, while at the global level, the Basel Committee (Basel Committee on Banking Services) III. package. These are all one and all of the banking capital and liquidity position on increasing. The regulations, restrictions - which is no small effect on the Hungarian banking capital and liquidity position as well - but the price that banks in lending rates to curb forced a diminishing impact on economic growth and increase unemployment.
There is a country ...
However, there is still a country in Europe where the political elite in recent years not learning from the crisis of economic policy impasse will continue its adventures. A place where politicians continue to irresponsibly mantrázzák that banks are the source of every problem and an imaginary part of the economic Patriotic War must convince them, instead of strengthening their capital rohannának the upcoming Euro final before the onset of disaster. And is still seriously they think the country will benefit if long-term processes in the international market against marching.
This, unfortunately, no other country like Hungary, where governments, businesses and a significant proportion of the population indebted up to the neck, near the Swiss franc will spend his days. By now almost everyone's favorite topic of "what the devizahiteleseinkkel start" in the story, which is again due to the political elite of our society began to polarize. Despite the disagreement is not really suffering, and lack of solidarity between runs, but the solution and a further deterioration of the situation. Finally, the Government of a sudden, shocking everyone with lightning speed by dragging points in the debate. For many, the record speed in the parliament adopted legislation relevant music for the ears. I, however, the minority that the government of the country for the wrong, dangerous and immensely unjust solution.
Who is responsible for the credibility of the currency situation that has evolved?
To determine if this is not necessary to set up committees of inquiry. The situation that has evolved over the past decade, the whole Hungarian political elite is responsible for short-sighted and self-serving politizálásával the following four steps as a result of our country to benefit vulnerable position.
1) The spectacular public debt in 2000, started by the then Urban's government overspending as part of a drastic cut in home loan into a generous budget kamattámogatásába. This was the hope that in the 2002 elections will help the start-up in domestic demand growth path to make the country an international crisis in the middle. Eventually won the elections, Socialist Party of Free Democrats coalition that he is "hundred-day program," observed head (which was then in opposition Fidesz is automatically voted on) that some further policy steps complete with an amazing total indebtedness of the country. Both political side hoped that the expansion of domestic demand BOOST artificial, accelerated through the distributing political economy, that will then automatically produces a cover to hide the resulting deficits. However, this hypothesis was wrong, the more so because the supercharged domestic demand stimulated imports only, and this is only exploited by the country's trade balance. The resulting fiscal imbalance is a false illusion of wealth, causing catalyzed by the growing demand for consumer credit.
2) The Hungarian population is not the currency of their own band, not to loans after the country's deteriorating economic condition of the forint faced having to pay the interest rate premium. In the nine years of failed economic policy (unsustainable pension, health and housing subsidy system, beyond the minimum 50 percent increase for public servants carried out under 50 percent wage increase, a 19 thousand forints single pension supplement, the 13th month pension, the introduction of the minimum wage, tax exemptions make the reckless áfaváltoztatások, the state and the private sector, real or imagined, a partnership of PPP investments proliferation, unrealistically expensive highway construction), an abnormally low taxpayer morale, coupled with a growing hole in the state household, and this is the country's indebtedness resulted. A short well-being of our economy and substance of political change in direction instead of the current Hungarian Government to finance its foreign investors, who do all this, of course, the increased risks due to a high interest rate premium they would do next.
3) The current Hungarian government's fault that 21 years after the regime change in the financial and economic fundamentals are still not subject to the compulsory part of secondary school education and the maturity of. The reason people can not just lending a little, but have no idea what's the difference between the interest rate and the APR, there is no sufficient information about themselves on the bank, a financial trader. For this reason, then vulnerable, defenseless, non-savers are active, spend more strength above. What megtakarítanak yet, I want to keep it under his pillow, and averse from the Stock Exchange do not understand the fundamental economic relationships are not. So, of course, are highly susceptible to demagogic politicians banking and capital market, anti-rhetoric, when the situation rather than solutions themselves instead of trying to find those responsible.
4) The adóforintjainkból reserved for government and the financial market supervisory bodies to be surprised at the deepest crisis in his sleep in 2008. They were not able to perform a task, and therefore unprepared for the crisis in Hungary, it was more severe effect. The current government, parliament, central bank supervision and the responsibility to monitor, if necessary, regulate the market trends and anomalies if large or dangerous trends are seen, it is time to take action early - applying for the relevant law must drive everyone back on track. (For example, if a bank responsible wanted to act and therefore does not give franc loan to the customer, the customer response passed from another bank, which serve them.) Therefore, the Socialist-Free Democrats government enormous mistake when unleashed in Hungary in foreign currency lending, instead of restrictive legislation would have created that all banks are equally strong against the standards of the franc would have corroborated related lending. This of course does not dealt with the then opposition in parliament.
The government in the role of Don Quixote
The Hungarian government, the fiscal position to deal with a simple but populist solution. The problem with all of its declared banks began systematically stamping: the crisis in the banking system, taxes were imposed, a moratorium on the enforcement of mortgages, a three-year rate lock maximizing debtors' monthly repayments. These measures, of course, painful lives of all financial institutions, but also understandable and tolerable in view of the crisis. The government's latest idea, a stream of foreign exchange price fixed mortgage repayments, however, is beyond all the existing boundary of sanity.
The banks seem to be borne by the strokes well, because they are the eyes of external sources of unrestricted funds (but not their own money to the banks, the depositors and shareholders should have). But the reality is that domestic banks in these lépéssekkel lose their profit and a significant part of their capital, which puts a dangerous situation in the Hungarian banking system just when the world, the banks' capital and liquidity, strengthening the position of working with governments. The current situation at home, in response to the banks to curb lending further forced the mostly foreign-owned banks are a part of our opt for the departure. Of course, this last step we can say that this is who cares: just because it will improve under the leadership of the Hungarian financial institutions, market-making opportunity.
But the situation is far more complex. Firstly, the total size of Hungarian banks are not enough large to be financed only from domestic sources themselves the entire Hungarian economy. Second, any taxpayer suicide in terms of budget, job-creating companies elüldözni, especially when it leads to the purchase of Hungarian government securities. And last but not least, a shrinking national economy and increasingly risky financial institution operating in a responsible one is not increasing market shares. If it is the country where the bank is also home country, this means increase in the risk of increasingly sidelined in international financial markets and is also much more expensive than the current one, or none at all will not be able to involve funds from abroad.
Therefore, higher interest rates and forint dramatically in need of corporate and household lending in Hungary can be expected that we all have bad news. Especially when considering the lawfulness that each percentage point of economic growth should grow in the order of four percent each year, the bank's loan portfolio. Failing this, the road remains a continuing recession and rising unemployment direction. Same point in the past three years has shown that the unlimited and unregulated credit expansion is what can lead to trouble. But that is a credit to the economy in which the living body of water: an essential and irreplaceable. It is not to mention that the lack of competition in supply and rising bank costs, and declining service quality leads.
Long live the social implications
A favorable exchange rate for foreign currency loans, repayment options and money market of the real economic problems are a very important set of issues it raises: the action is extremely unfair to socially as well.
1) Take yourself, who adósodott not it?
We turn to a bank loan, because we decided against that and not because of this gun to force bank. A man with a credit consumer, who is living beyond its capabilities with real, or better living conditions than that you can afford. But this is not a problem per se, but only in private. Especially if the forint borrowing rather than foreign currency. The foreign debt is nothing more than speculation in the currency weakening. The borrower to receive foreign currency, the forint strengthened or will increase, so the repayments are lower, or even weaken, the depreciation rate will never exceed the forint and Swiss franc relative kamatkülönbözetb?l from profits. The customer decides the bank to credit the HUF will be required over 10 per cent interest or more on selected franc loan 6 percent. One man's debt burden is higher, but there is no exchange rate risk, while the other smaller interest burden, coupled with exchange rate risk. So the possibility of the borrower, risk tolerance in relation to the choice. Responsibility for the judgments of others do not sew the neck, once it did not work for what we expected. However, the government decided that the losses for the banks to take over. This means that if a crisis of financial institutions to the edge of collapse because of their capital szétporladó are, the Hungarian government, the taxpayers will have to set their feet so as not to lose there money to depositors, since they guarantee. That is simplistic: while the forint was strong, the currency authentic nyer?ben were, and when the partially self-constructed position weakened forint due to losses incurred when the government that tries them be required to pay, who did not want a loan, but instead saved a and deposit bankjuknál form affixed. Those who are indebted in HUF, are now beyond their own pain authentic solidarity even in the foreign exchange burden themselves may assume, therefore, double-pay. This is extremely unfair to those who lives without borrowing to the extent possible is held responsible, thinking the more expensive or forint loans was recorded, compared to a profit for many years a relatively foreign credit insurance.
The exchange of authentic reference that no one told them to such an extent, the forint weakened and discredited simply unacceptable. In addition, point in a country with a population over many decades, they were socialized to be the best foreign currency savings, as the forint has already been countless times leértékelve. Not to mention that the man, after long and careful consideration in choosing real estate. It is difficult to imagine that a funding condition can not inquire about the system thoroughly.
2) Support those who took the rose hill francs their apartment?
The saving on foreign exchange authentic parliamentary decision that the existing foreign currency loan will only be able to repay, whose savings are adequate or sufficiently stable income and good relations among the living, that this new fund is now forint-based loans. The decisions of the government due to the weakening forint started to plunge even more difficult situation is really in need credible currency, even though at the expense of others throws lifeline to those who hitelükb?l luxury apartments and holiday homes at Lake Balaton meeting.
3) Trash the sanctity of property rights
The government has just sent a message to voters: the sense of responsibility to the community and handle finances, because if it goes wrong, you will help the paternalistic state. The parliament's decision on Monday, however, has virtually legislated that Hungary should rob banks.
The banks do not stuff themselves with money bags, where they can and can extract any number of free money. They are companies whose owners are its shareholders. Who had invested money in this industry because earnings are expected. The income is derived from those customers who have placed their savings to the bank as security in exchange and interest rate are expected. The bank will need to generate the operation, the cost of the depositors and the interest rate on dividends to shareholders. If this process the government all sorts of sober reflection, without prior consultation and say, you have the savings of depositors and the shareholders' investment risk. This would not only lead to bankcs?dhöz worse, but the extent undermines the confidence towards Hungary to deter those who have money want to invest Hungary economy.
A reliable and well-functioning market economy, democratic country built on two main criteria: the sanctity of private property, and the megkérd?jelezhetetlensége FAKTUM to repaying the debt is still all right. And these two factors can not only political power and does not want megpiszkálni. Because everyone knows that the country where the prime minister during breakfast work out the same day regardless of which operator will be something to take away, which was then a parliamentary lunch already constitution also to the President on the same day before dinner underneath write and publish the investors to avoid the sight of a banana republic.
What is medicine?
The people, companies, municipalities and the state foreign debt of the current level of real macroeconomic risks, which need to be addressed. The pékt?l doctors and bankers to bus drivers is the same for all of us an equal interest in the more tolerable rate of repayment. But it does not matter what method is achieved. The parliament adopted the Law on foreign credit repayments in the short term as to help affluent debtors, but it is extremely unfair and harmful to the greater part of the country. This is a money market and real activity leads to start had to sooner rather than later to 300 forint euro exchange rate over the direction of take. There are some steps that might sound good now, but in fact points to a fast-track court sent the country after the Greeks. While other ideas are not sound popular, but in the medium term, stable and reasonable solution to the problem of genuine currency.
The latter are the authentic economic policy decisions that the government reduce the size of the pension and health and public administration reform will help improve competitiveness. Measures to attract investors and investment, increase tax revenues are put into place to increase - making it finally fall in unemployment - may be less public debt and, last but not least, appreciation can start the forint to finally fall to start a foreign currency mortgage payments.
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Political collapse is extemely bullish for PMs, but contractions to the monetary base are not synonymous with political collapse. Those with the guns will still have the guns, for a while at least. Default is deflationary in the short run.
The (abridged) chain of events is something like: Greek default -> margin calls -> liquidity crisis -> cash to the moon.
At the end of this sequence is the PM buying opportunity of a lifetime for those with--cash. Political collapse may or may not follow, but in either case PMs will be a screaming bargain for that brief period.
Or so the bizarre thinking goes. This has been debated ad nauseam all over the intertubes since 2007.
and you base this on historical example? Let's see what's the stronger pull, the collapse of a house of cards system pulling folks toward history's only true form of money or funds liquidating? Who's the bigger force?
China.
Sorry Dormroom, all fiat is tied together because all finance is tied together. The system cannot crash without taking every nation down, regardless of their "current account surplus" which is, of course, held in the currencies that will fail. EVERYTHING goes together.
DormRoom
Gold & Silver Bugs will be wiped out in the great depression.
Yeah, like the last time?,Gold and Silver are money(couldn't own it then), true they may go down in value, but the US dollar will go off the charts also.
Which do you prefer to hold real money or one in 600 Trillion (in arrears) that will be the go TO currency when the Euro is kaput?.
Scary situation, thinking the GO To is as bad as the one being destroyed is it not?.
sheepie, you yourself said the fed isnt printing, and clearly you see europe is imploding. if you want to see the future, housing is a perfect example of what happens when there is debt destruction/deleveraging. it goes down in price. and all of bens printing has done nothing to salvage the price destruction in the housing market. housing can be looked at as the canary in the coal mine for the impending deflationary landslide for all assets/commodities , and i see cash as the only refuge right now.
I agree we're probably in for a deflationary period, but cash will be a refuge only until people realise it's just paper, at which point deflation will flip to hyperinflation.
If you're hoping to ride the deflationary wave offshore so you can surf the inflationary tsunami inshore from a higher crest, well, good luck. I for one don't trust my timing that much. I'm heading for higher gound NOW.
Better a year too early than a day too late...
exacly how does one switch from deflation to hyperinflation? once a deflationary spiral occurs, people wont touch assest or commodities knowing they will continue to fall further in price. all the money in the world wont change that mindset. again, it hasnt worked for housing, so why would it work for anything else? and if there is massive debt destruction, leaving actual physical fiat dollars as a scarcity, who is going to have the money to buy gold? and why would they want to? they will need those precious fiat dollars to buy food/clothing/shelter.
The problem is this. If you are not in debt, or you have very little debt, then deflation may not really hurt you much. It will, but just not as much. On the other hand if you owe something like 100% of you GDP and deflation kicks in, then all of a sudden you end up owing 110, 120 , 130% of you GDP in real terms. So deflation is a bit like a sudden increase in the interest rates. At that point you have two options (a) default on the debt since the shrinking economic cycle is making it impossible to repay the debt, or (b) print and repay the debt in printed money. In both cases the currency will collapse.
And BTW point (a) is unlikely. No politician will take such profound and decisive action today. So we are left with (b)
Exactly. Analyses such as Kito's fail to take into account that in a deflationary scenario, government revenue falls off a cliff but outgoings don't, at least not to the same extent. They have to print, or face collapse and revolution. The only thing they can do to keep delay the inevitable is to print.
"Delay" is the operative word here.
By the time this is over, we are likely to see a bit of both, debt forgiveness/default and currency destruction. TPTB are not going to sit idly by and be destroyed. We are not going to see a complete currency collapse where you get out of your mortgage for nothing, or deflation to infinity which destroys the debtor nations and banks. The central banks are walking a fine line between deflation and inflation, stalling until they are positioned to try to change the rules of the game, moving us to a gold referrenced system.
Maybe they succeed or maybe this all ends up in a collapse, we can't see the future. We don't have to, in either case, the holders of physical gold and silver win the game. A lot of traders belittle the holders of physical, pointing to all the money that can be made from the death throes of the old system, but they really are talking apples and oranges. Traders should trade, but PMs are the place to be at the end of the game.
That is right on, there will not be a real day of reckoning for TPTB, but the little guy can best protect himself in these crazy times with physical PM ownership. Accumulate steadily for a rainy day, not for quick paper profits.
kito, agent default, and smiddy....great comments. I think I've read so much about the deflation/inflation debate I can't keep it straight. Deflation makes sense to me in that people need to raise money to pay debts, bills, etc. Boomers might be less ready to ride out another leg down and liquidate, right or wrong. For savers and low debt people this would be good as they can buy things cheaper, but taken to extremes things grind to a halt in that scenario. Inflation I think I get but it is not as straightforward as people think. Definitions aside my goal is to protect what I have and not get slaughtered in the meantime, whatever happens. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this, thanks
I also appreciate that the 3rd consideration is that the FED will not likley go away, but come out stronger. So, delfation or inflation...the big question is what rule changes are coming where the FED grows? What hurts them the most, what do they fear the most, where do they exert the most control/influence. This is where the rule/policy changes will be made. Trouble is that could be anything like a 3 day bank holiday, 'come and get your new dollars, 67% of the old dollars' kind of Monday..........
well said, inflation is more favorable to the powers that be and the ones that got us here. Deflation isn't. That said, for the dollar, in the end, it could have a deflationary effect externally and an inflationary one internally. Absent physical things held by outsiders, any other US "asset" will be radically revalued. At home, we will pay a hard ever escalating "price ."
I sort of disagree here if by TPTB you mean the individuals that own us, if you mean the "government" and I include the Fed in that then inflation is the ONLY hope of staying on top, but for those few individuals who still have liquid assets in the positive net worth category it is deflation they would seek, simply because they have liquid assets that become more valuable with time. They could easily see their million dollar pin money accounts dwindle to a night on the town with a show and dinner with inflation, where that same million would buy a new manse in the Hamptons in a couple years with deflation. Maybe pick up a nice used yacht.
Anyway, there were a lot of inflation/deflation comments on what has been done on the previous page and I just wanted to point out that so far ALL of Ben's printing has been electronic entries addressing bank balance sheet chaos, nowhere to be seen are the helicopters warming up their engines to drop bales of fresh new $100s on your block or mine. And that lack of "money" is driving deflation for some things, assets, primarily houses, through good old supply and demand, no money (or credit) = no demand. However, we still see inflation, and really hefty at that for many consumer goods, food and fuel especially, in spite of lower demand. This is where the disconnect between supply and demand are driving forces, and that is where historically hyperinflation gets it's spark that becomes a raging inferno.
When people get scared they hoard, they pay off credit at first, deleverage, but if it goes on long enough they start to fear that just getting out of debt will not be enough, they fear they will in future be cut off of credit and will have no job/cash, so they slow down the deleveraging and "use" the credit they already have with minimum payments to service it while they use cash to hoard. Does not matter what they hoard, the driving principal is fear of the unknown and loss of faith. I cannot afford PM's, I am not of the investor class, but bet your ass I have a six month supply of non perishable things that will make my life more comfortable in a collapse that I am afraid I can't buy later. Coffee, cigarettes, toilet paper (never take it for granted how important that modern convenience is) rice, split peas, spices, powdered milk, etc.
I also went to a bankruptcy attorney this morning just to get a feel for the new laws, if the IRS insists on making my life miserable in spite of the fact that they are applying the laws wrongly then I will pay them their pound of flesh, but I will also default on all other creditors to do so and then retire outside the USA for the rest of my life taking my income with me. To live in the USA now is to submit to a mugging by the wealthiest 1%, and I am just no longer going to consent to it. Much as I loved America (disabled vet injured in the line of duty) the nation I was raised in is so long gone most people do not even remember it now.
With regard to point (b) print and repay the debt in printed money, among the high debtors only US and UK have "their own" [just forget about the private central bank, FR] printing press to print USD and GBP respectively...but NO single member of EU incl. Greece is allowed to print the EUR. If Greece has NO option to print and repay the debt in printed money (unless back to drachma), no bailout (or not sufficient ones) then option left for Greece is just DEFAULT.
Hyperinflation absolutely can occur in an environment of deflation in long-lived assets. Staple items go up in price parabolically when money velocity explodes in a panic. Coincident with that, no one is buying assets because they are too busy trying to survive. So you have asset deflation whle staple items hyperinflate. That is plausible and the likely environment for hyperinflation.
You've got to recognize the difference between assets and staples. The core assumption in your view, with which I disagree, is that fiat dollars will be scarce.
BUT...even if you were correct that fiat dollars become scarce - PMs emerge for what they are: real money, and not a commodity. So they will be enormously valuable either in a deflationary-debt spiral or a hyperinflation spiral.
CAN fiat dollars become scarce in a system like the one we have? In an environment like the one that we have? How likely is that? Have we seen the type of discipline that would require?
Doubtful in my mind. But those who think it can would point to the proliferation of digital fiat. Human nature says bank runs and fiat grabs in a panic. I'd wager there is more physical fiat under mattresses and in home safes right now than at any time in the past 20 years.
I would be on the same side of that wager as you, mayhem. Holding a few months worth of FRNs is just good diversification. Who knows what the future will bring?
Cash/FRNs, gold, guns, other preparations are a good idea to hold. Never know what is going to happen.
Yes they can. All paper money becomes scarce when it buys less ink than needed for printing it. It sounds funny but it is scarily true.
Ever heard of the Zimbabwe 1 trillion bill? That's how they avoid that "problem."
Yes, there was a deflationary depression on in Germany post WWI and yet they still had the Weimar hyperinflation in 23. Just as now there were many conflicting signals, if you look at just one or two you miss the reasons for the trends. There was some inflation but mostly deflation, German production costs were falling every day, and while the government started printing vast amounts of money they were still forced to default on reparations payments to the western powers.
Can dollars become scarce in a deflationary environment? Why it is practically the definition of deflation, but I know I am not spending anything I absolutely do not have to, what does not go toward my own deleveraging goes to hoarding. And I do remember distinctly back in 2005-6-7 it seemed as though there was a lot of money circulating around, a shocking amount of it in fact, like getting a beer at my local pizza joint where a pal works, people would take out their wallets to pay for something and they had wads of big bills. Left big tips. Everywhere you went people had plenty of money in their hands, and I remember at the time thinking all this hot money sloshing around can't end well.
Now I go places and they seem deserted, no shoppers, no diners, when you do see people they are being very choosy, tight, pay with plastic a lot, you do not see a lot of actual fiat cash now. Not because credit is so readily available either, but because it is easier to track money when you get that statement at the end of the month saying where and what you spent, you know how easy it is to go through a wallet full of cash and not remember two days later what it was spent on. Credit availability does not come into play if you are paying off your charges every month.
One thing I am pretty sure of is that the argument over de/in/hyper flation is not over yet. My mind says we are in for a very bad bout of stag (worse than the last three years that is) and eventually they will print to extinguish bad debts at least for corporate entities, but as to your wealth and assets, deflation, everything you count as yours will become worth less and less, if you get paid at all it will be less in real terms, standards of living will fall dramatically for 99% of us over the net several years, I doubt if we will ever know the kind of prosperity we used to take totally for granted. Upward mobility is a chunk of history at best, downward mobility will be the rule and it is just a matter of how bad it can get.
once a deflationary spiral occurs, people wont touch assest or commodities knowing they will continue to fall further in price. all the money in the world wont change that mindset. again, it hasnt worked for housing, so why would it work for anything else?
Your analysis is confused. You say 'all the money in the world' won't change that (deflationary) mindset, and use as proof of this that 'it hasn't worked in housing'. The first phrase can be interpreted as either being about existing money stocks, or the amount that has been created recently in response to the crisis, and the second phrase looks at one particular market, that hasn't responded to base money created up to this point.
Well, Kito, 'all the money in the world' hasn't yet been created to anything like the extent they can and almost certainly will do in the near future - not to prop up assets like housing, but to stop banks collapsing and enable governments to keep spending. When that happens, deflation will flip to hyperinflation as people realise their cash is a rapidly depreciating asset and money velocity explodes. We've set the scene - a vastly expanded monetary base - and we've slackened the brakes - interest rates. All we need now is a change in consumer mindset. THAT is why perception management is key. Once people believe inflation will destroy their savings, they will spend, and it becomes a self-fulfilling belief.
The deflation hook was set in 08, there is no cutting that fish loose, you let go of the rod, or go in the water with it. They refuse to let go of the rod. then so be it.
Deflation is a far more formidable foe than inflation could ever hope to be. These klowns are about to find this out the hard way.
This is a generational delevering issue caused by a structural failure in the Keynesian system due to the abuse of debt issuance, among other things.
Ben can print until the end of time, and it will not change the outcome. Welcome back to 1932.
Will not change the outcome.... of assets highly correlated with debt. This whole inflation/deflation argument is over. There is technically both - deflation in RE and financial assets, inflation of real "stuff". The outcome you fear depends on what you own and what you owe.
well said both
This is the essence of Hyperinflation. I am not sure why the deflationists dont get it.
See, families will be starving and they will be willing to trade that motorcycle in the garage for a sack of flour, as it gets worse, they will sell it for a loaf of bread.
Not much property will be sold but the people that have to will sell for incredibly low amounts.
It will be deflation in items of no consequence(ipads, etc cars, worthless homes) and mass inflation of food and energy.
Just imagine your money is worthless; you start trading everything you need to survive, your extra toys first, then your clothes/furniture, vehicles, then the worthless property/homes.
Hyperinflation looks like Deflation.
kind of why I'm expanding my garden, growing perennial food, and learning about permaculture. (and the other reason is Monsanto)
Don't you just hate it when people say " I will plant a garden and live of that" it takes about 10 years to become self sufficiant from your own garden , good luck with expanding your garden, don't forget it is illegal so do it on the Q/T
yeah if gardening was that easy, why did all those pilgrims die? It is a complicated but semi necessary art to become self sufficient or better yet, learn who to trust.
MONSANTO ARE SCUMBAGS.
Housing is a different animal . Housing requires a daily injection of cash much of it commodity based : utilities , maintance and then you have taxes , insurance and probably interest on a mortgage.
So... if we have major currency failures, as people increasingly realise there's insufficient collateral backing most fiat currencies, you're saying that the only currency that has no counterparty risk... will drop in value?
Clever analysis. Keep it up.
Yeah, it all makes sense now. The sad thing is these people do end up fooling a lot of folks with their shenanigans. And I'm calling shenanigans.
So what exactly is the pronoun form of a shenanigan? A shenanigator? Thoughts please on this important issue people!
"Jew" is the historically accepted term.
My problem is that it's exactly this kind of indoctrinated bone-headed moron, who will, once realizing all his education was nothing short of establishment propaganda, spend all his time lobbying for gold confiscation.
They won't confiscate this time they will just outlaw its use. Too many people own gold around the world now.
I think they're more likely to tax it. If they outlaw it, it will just end up being cached. I think most of us would rather throw our PMs into a very deep lake than give it to our thieving governments.
Besides - every CB in the world will be tryiing to acquire as much gold as they can. In such a scenario it would be easiest for them just to buy it from us.
They won't outlaw gold, and probably won't need to confiscate it. They will use their gold to get what they want, a stable system with them at the top of the power structure. Central banks are sucking down as much physical as they can get their hands on while still controling the paper price. They will continue to kick the can as long as they can get their hands on more cheap gold. If the wheels come off, they will make their move, but until then, you will see more deflation and more inflation, and as little printing as they can get away with.
I just disagree, and I know how vehement some of you are about it so please try to be nice when responding, but I do have history on my side. When they confiscated in '33 we were already under a gold standard, but the price was what, $20 per oz, and by confiscation FDR was able to with a stroke of the pen devalue to $35 an oz, and there can be a lot of arguing about everything related to that, but in that world the dollar was getting pretty grossly overvalued, especially in exchange with the pound sterling, as an industrial exporting nation, and some would say even mercantilist at that time (at least features of mercantilism) the country had no choice but to weaken the dollar, it was part of why unemployment and asset values were in the toilet. Unfortunately the Fed did not do it's part, by nearly halving the value of the dollar in gold terms we made it much easier for trading partners to afford our goods, but there was no concominent doubling of the money supply to accommodate that halving of the value, the result was deep deflation as there was no money around to spend.
It would be like if we used apples for money, one day you have ten apples worth ten apples, the next you drop the value so that 10 apples are worth 5.7 apples but you still only have 10 apples in circulation, you have en apples but you can only buy 5.7 apples worth of anything else with them. There were so few that banks closed their doors for good. If you are going to change the value from 10 to 5.7 you have to also change the quantity from 10 to the number that makes the value the same as it was before the change, otherwise you get really bad deflation. In this case changing dollars from Au = $20 to AU =$35 meant the dollar was devalued by 57% (1:1.75) meaning what those dollars could buy was DECREASED by that much, what you would expect to happen was that you would get a sudden price rise equal to that 57% change pretty much overnight and that would be fine if you also increased the dollar supply by a ratio of 1:1.75 , but the Fed did not put any more dollars into circulation, in fact if I remember right they actually shrank the money supply, the result was that nobody could buy anything with the cash on hand, and business could not afford to take what amounted to 57 cents on the dollar for their goods..
And that is a perfect recipe for deflation and depression. This what Benny meant when he spoke of the then Fed not being accomodative and how he got his reputation as Helicopter Ben. But what they did then is also just exactly what Bernanke is doing today, credit creation and deficit spending are defacto dollar devaluations, not to mention financial levering that was uncontrolled and created trillions in hot money sloshing around the finance world, but he has not put any new money into circulation to offset any of that new dollar value, the result is we have no money to spend, if there were a single day with a stroke of a pen a halving of the value of the buck Ben MIGHT see it and react accordingly, but because it was layers of financial leverage built up over many years he does NOT see it. What we do have is all being used to pay for necessities of life and because of that those alone are rising at spectacular rates. Bernanke is actually "printing" money and giving it to the banks, but only on the condition that it is sterilized from general circulation by re depositing it in accounts at the Fed, so that none of it reaches main street, they fear inflation would get out of control if we ever had anything to spend. Good for bank balance sheets, horrible for the Main Street economy. I do not want you to think I advocate firing up those helicopters, I advocate stable currency (and maximum employment, where have we heard that let me see) but the "inflation" has already happened and without the monetization for you and me on Main Street we are right back in a Great Depression, with one you must do the other or deflation X100.
The kind that lies to him/herself to avoid the blow to the ego of being fooled. Read CDs series from last summer or Bernay's work on propaganda. Once you fool a person, they typically rationalize the BS to stay fooled all own their own!
Yes, it will temporarily collapse and be the buying opportunity of a lifetime if you buy physical from anyone dumb enough to sell for anything close to paper spot prices.
Do you honestly believe that bullion dealers and others who hold physical are going to sell at those prices? Are seriously that silly?
There will be a line in the sand and honestly it will boil down to people who can afford to not sell, and those who can't.
There will also be a huge number of people (weak hands) who just don't know the fundamentals as closely as some of us so they'll assume they had better get rid of the hot potato before it burns them.
They will, of course, in due time regret it deeply but such is life.
"When there's blood in the streets, I buy"
Because 10 years of this rolling collapse have been so hard on gold and silver? The same thing that has been happening, and that hard money crowd has been saying would happen, will continue to happen.
in the recent past, when it looked like the EUR was going to go kaput, gold has done the opposite.
The EURs have to go somewhere and it won't be CHF
hahaha, so you are looking at a correlation between EUR and Gold and wishing the EUR to go down so that Gold can go up?
dream on, you are touching the elephant's trunk and mistaking it for a tree
Gold will go up independently from the EUR's fate - they are much less correlated than what your chart is telling you - what you "see" in the EURUSD is the USD "sloshing" around in RiskON RiskOff waves
by the way:
Gold, at the moment, is being bought by 1) Indians, 2) Chinese, 3) Arabs+Turks, 4) Russians and, in negligible quantities by Europeans, followed by miniscule amounts by Americans
Your assertion that gold and silver will collapse is laughable. Especially if you think it won't be accepted to purchase goods and services when there are few other ways to acquire said goods and services. You bone heads always compare the collapse to the fiat which is your first mistake. Your second mistake is being a troll without understanding your first mistake; which makes for awesome replies and double digit, red arrows.
ugrev, first understand the definition of a troll as it applies to the internet. one is not defined as a troll merely because a long standing member of this site sees global financial implosion playing out differently. you sound like a jackass.
I used to moderate one of the top 10 software download sites on the planet..so trust me, I know what trolls are. Trolls have many faces and can and will linger, only showing up when they think they can lure you into some bullshit argument. That schmuck just wanted rub mud in someones face to make himself feel better about himself.
And don't bother asking what forum it was that I moderated...it was a place for geeks..major ones..
Did you see a real vagina and then they kicked you out?
Here you have a special kind of troll. The kind of troll we call the "I wanna be a comedian" troll. He shows up, says something that a 12 year old would say and then goes and punches a girl on the playground because he likes her.
Recess is over, kiddo.. time for a story and a nap.
p.s. I did that shit just for you. And if it wasn't that you saw a real vagina, you got caught cheating dice rolls in D&D. Sorry you lost that job at the pron site.
I thank you so much for keeping it solemn and real here, on the internet.
I can pay any bill I have right now in silver or gold via exchange, so stop the bullshit. I would rather go down to my local dealer with an empty wheelbarrel and a hand full of Troy oz for whatever FRN amount that I need than stand in front of the grocery store with my hand out. Do you really think your going to be able to warrent your bonds, treasuries, or ETF's if the shit hits the fan? you will be luckey to find an ATM that works so spare everyone the PM voodooo doll rhetoric everyone please.
Historically speaking, yes, Gold and Silver will take an initial hit upon the collapse of a Country / Currency because Countries will need to collateral up and quick, but at the end of that day, 4,000 years of trade will not be wrong. It will be the only "currency" to trade for goods or services cause everything else failed.
Silver and Gold have no debt teatherd to them, Global currencies and FRN's owe everyone.
The Bad Guy.
Absolutely, if the end comes, all paper prices go down, but at that point, paper will become increasingly suspect, so valuation with respect to paper quickly becomes irrelevant. First the credit cards will not be accepted, then paper currency, leaving only PMs and barter until the new currency is set up by all the happy banksters who stacked PMs and get a vote on what is money.
Until then, if you want to travel through his desert, you must pay the Great Humongous in precious metals or oil.
Spoken like someone who has never visited the underground economy. Try farmers markets with gold and silver....of course make sure you have property because the number of chickens and goats you can bring home are amazing.
I always like the "PMs are not liquid" bullshit, especially considering they are some of the most liquid assets around.
Try buying your vegetables with CD players, or Bon Jovi records, and compare your results with those of PMs.
http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/us
Try paying your light bill with silver.
Betcha I could swing a stand-alone solar set-up.
Don't buy Solyndra...I hear their support won't be around for long. ;)
You'd need to pare down your usage quite a bit too...unless you've got $60k to spend and a whole mess of space and are okay with being only slightly less inconspicuous than a diesel generator, but you're right about that being a better use for your silver than currency.
I did:
http://www.coultersmithing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=157
It's a good deal once you adapt lifestyle a little to use the energy like crazy when there's extra, and not so much when there's not much. You just get in tune with the weather a little more. Batteries are the limiting tech, not the solar stuff. It was harder when I ran a software dev business out of here, and you know, people expect to show up and use the big computer network no matter the weather. But we made so much money at that, it didn't matter we had to run the generator some too.
If anybody is looking for a good deal on solar panels try backwoods solar.
http://www.backwoodssolar.com/catalog/solar_panels.htm#SCHOTT_202W_MODULES
At these prices a 5,000 watt system w/ batteries, wiring, controllers,etc. would be around 15k.
Panels themselves are about 9k
OK since you don't get it apparently here is a little scenario.
You have two people, one with gold and silver, the other with CDs or stocks/bonds in some retail trading account or bank.
They both start on Sunday morning with $1000 in assets and have to feed themselves because they are all out of food and aren't holding onto any cash until next payweek.
Who is going to eat first?
Both will eat whenever they need to upto the 1k - the one with gold and silver will be able to use it as collateral and probably even borrow multiples of its worth.
After the default domino-fest , banks will only be too happy to lend against punters with gold and silver to pledge.
The one with gold and silver will probably be able to draw down more than the mope with a trading/CD account. So theyll either live longer or get fatter.
After the default domino-fest , banks will only be too happy to lend against punters with gold and silver to pledge.
So what the fuck are banks going to lend after the colapse, bottle tops, toilet papper, hookers , what ?
Yes, currency is more liquid. But a significant point in owning PMs is as a currency collapse hedge. Once the currency goes, who's the new king of the hill?
I have / let clients pay with gold for legal services. And yes, the cash price is higher.
logic fail, batman.
It's like backing off a ledge that is falling; you need to get to solid ground.
You see the rocks tumbling in front of you (krona, ukraine script, euro, loonie) and now under your feet (us dollar) and so you need to run to safety (something "physical", aka not standing above dead space, i.e. "air", a bubble if you will)
they won't listen, I'd say and it's very difficult to forecast the exact consequences
there still is a difference between the EUR and the EuroZone banking system, the first can survive without the second (oh, do I hear a banker's cry of indignation?)
It would be very hard for the EUR to survive without the banking system. They are tied together politically. If the banking system goes down, what happens to the depositors? The political fallout of dealing with the depositors would create pressure to print, nationalize and subsidize all of which have tremendous costs. Good luck is all I can say.
the linkage is the power and wealth of Oligarchs. If the Euro tanks, Mr Hague wll see the City burn like during the great fire of London. The private sector will be wiped out. Those countries with statist networks will manage to save some inner wealth, after bank nationalisations. So a major fiat debacle means that we have depression and the reset will be around countries who have a social fabric to avoid civil wars, (I am assuming that most first world countries can avoid national wars), and who can quickly boot strap local economic growth once the paper monies are printed nationally. USD as reserve currency will provide some legs untl the WS melt down will send USA into doomsday decline as well. 2012 looks as ominous as 1929 squared!
I don't know what capacity USA has to keep the US reserve currency alive with Saud backing, as OIL is what makes USD special.
Where is the false premise? We're entering unknown territory here. ZH has explored the many possibilities of this unknown financial territory. Of course gold and silver may collapse - along with everything else. Worst worst worst case, we may be looking at a thermonuclear cull or mass anarchy such that the developed nations look more like Somalia. Martial law? New feudalism?
I've seen these explored on ZH. Where is the false premise?
Pray all you want that the Eurozone pulls through, but it won't because it CAN'T. The system is fucked. The can may be kicked down the road, but each time it buys a shorter and shorter respite.
The system is fucked and cannot be saved. A new system is required.
"The system is fucked and cannot be saved. A new system is required."
I believe a new Eurozone will eventually be formed after a long period of upheavals and it will look much different than it does now.
Hard to imagine what that might look like. From my perspective the whole Eurozone concept was just a bullshit way for the teenagers of Europe to all band together and try to act as grown-up and relevant as the U.S., whose domincance they chafed under since they became our Ward after the second world war. Apart from pretensions to grandeur, what exactly is it that keeps them together. Oh, and of course the anti-democratic centripedal forces of the corrupt central bank/governments that kept the whole Ponzi going. When these cons are exposed and Europeans have to fend for themselves in a very scary world (Russia or Islam, Mein Herr?) why should we suppose the flaccid amorality of post-modernism will still command any adherents? My guess is they go back to their roots, some faster than others. However, it seems like the UK is already surrendered.
48 junks? Yes, you are correct. If a cascading financial collapse happens, all paper markets will go googy-wa-wa, and paper gold and silver will likely go down the toilet along with them. But, you are ignoring (intentionally, hence the junks) that physical gold and silver will then be the only money left, and will skyrocket in price (boing!!!) With no paper money in the whole world, the price of gold and silver will make the physical holders very, very wealthy.
The real interesting question is whether the quasi holders of PMs, those with allocated gold like PHYS, or IRAs denominated in gold, will lose everything due to counterparty risk or government confiscation. I can't answer that question and neither can anyone else. I suspect some will do well and others will lose everything.
Hey, it's the return of the dormroom cocksucker.
You've got a little dribble on your chin there.
Go clean up and come back to the discussion son.
Precious metals price destruction just prior to and during financial collapse is transitory. Physical PM holders are only "wiped out" on paper and only for a very short period until pricing recovers on a rocket. My beans & rice will hold out fine until pricing firms back up.
Study history.
Run! It's Attila the Hun(garian)
I was more negative on Europe's outcome than this guy so this lifted my spirits a bit.
Right. This guys is optimistic compared to me.
Makes 2 of us!
And UK foreign secretary chips in:
*U.K. FOREIGN SECRETARY HAGUE INTERVIEWED BY SPECTATOR MAGAZINE
*EURO WILL BE SEEN AS `MONUMENT TO COLLECTIVE FOLLY,' HAGUE SAYS
*EURO IS `BURNING BUILDING WITHOUT EXITS,' HAGUE TELLS SPECTATOR
they r throwing it on our face now...they dont care...
Awesome. The great unravelling.
It is BEING telivised, just like they said it would.
Maybe this is Revelations...
ORI
It's All Weird...Weird
Here's the lame indian again, pumping his miserable blog.
Save your time folks, he writes like an idiot (then endlessly pumps his drivel here for all to see).
He wants to be the next Turd, but he's really just a piece of shit.
I like how the bankers fight to avoid the big print job until the very end. Their hope is an inspiration to hundreds of lost causes. They can print money to cover their failures or lose power. The gray area has been milked. The choice is binary and timely. 11:59. Print or die.
I think they know if they go all in and print, that now fools no one and has a lifespan of about 5 minutes.
If printing was so easy and such an escape hatch, they'd just do it. But its not.
5 minutes to live is better than 30 seconds, though, isn't it? They'll print.
Print or die.
Print then die.
All roads lead to Perdition.
Not for them it doesn't. They are doing all they can to feather their nests for when the inevitable happens. That's why they are stalling. All roads lead to Perdition for us, but not for them. They don't care one little bit about printing or not printing, or fixing a damn thing, this is all about delaying and preparing (for themselves).
I agree. They're running out of diversions as it becomes impossible to deny the cascading consequences of a default anywhere in Europe. They will print, at the end of the day, because for them it's either that or let the banks fail, and that won't happen.
Yet innevitably has to happen at some point.
Bernank doesn't print, because he would make his biggest creditor unhappy. And an unhappy creditor doesn't buy new debt. After EZ has exploded, China has little option left where to invest to....long Helicopters Bitchez!
"Cats and dogs sleeping together."
For better focus on the issue, I give you the original quote. However, substitute world for "city" and you got it down pat. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ZOKDmorj0
"Cats and dogs FUCKING each other."
There. Fixed it for ya.
Does he run a fringe blog?
According to HuffPo, he's not even real just a 'hoax'.
Yeah, pretty much.
Allow me to quote myself from my last post:
What Euro bankers/politicians should be reminded of is that their constituate states are rather famous for overhauling their political systems every few decades or so...often in a very colorful manner (how many types of government has France had since 1789?).
Somethings gotta give...
Barooso telling the ECB to print earlier today.
This fella calling the end times.
Draghi will print.
Just got to hold it together till JCT can bow out gracefully.
Cue next assassination by Cigarette Smoking Man from the X Files....
Assassination, sure. Except this time around the weapon of choice will be a nuke.
clearly bullish for stocks.
even euron banks.
Well, since Allessio's pronouncement of Doom the Dow is up how many hundred? This should be good for at least as many points, don't you think? Large low volume move fueled by rookie levered shorts getting their knees cut off. Must be the start of a new bull market!
Bloody hell.
Head for the hills.
"budget kamattámogatásába"...wow I knew we had problems.....but not this big.....I am now in the Catonic position with thumb stuck in my mouth....
No, I want to stimgative and criminalize the banks. F*ck the "regulating."
Any of you see this disgusting piece of crap? Wall St billlionaires mocking Wall St protesters toasting champagne and caviar from their penthouse balconies?
~Wall Street Toasts Champagne To Protesters~Let Them Eat Cake~ - YouTube
This is going to get ugly real soon. Didn't an earlier blog suggest that Wall St is full of psychopaths?
Obviously these people think theyre untouchable or something, maybe theyre all insane, its all like some weird comic book!
They are untouchable, aren't they? Nobody's touching them, they will laugh as we starve. I wonder how the Cayman Islands and Guernsey property markets are doing......
the flip side of the "jump fuckers" sign in 2008
Awesome Sheepdog!!...Maximus needs to throw the sword!!
One headshot with a .22 rimfire and they'd all scatter like the cockroaches they are.
If the protesters had turned up armed like Americans are supposed to be there would be no police violance and wall street would of listened , but Americans wont use there guns because they may loose there "snap" cards and have to fend for themselves .
Uh-oh.
My god! I have seen the future.
Yet €/$ 1.3615. +3.8% ytd...
Yes its almost like they just have to keep it together until some 'event'. Denial is no way to deal with a Western World total bankruptcy crack-up.
Yep, timing is everything for the next "Big Show".
Not a happy camper.
LOL not a happy banker indeed
Hungarian Homeowners have discovered that their government is willing to do something for them even if it's a partial protection from rapacious banks offering EUR and CHF mortgages...
strange times
HomoTrader I see you thumbs-downing my posts, why do you have to be such a juvenile delinquent all the time?
I gave you a thumbs up!
How many times has a fiat currency been inflated away to make everything better? (Weimar, Zimbabwe being some rather extreme examples)
How many times have we had a massive deflationary event like the great depression? Very rare.
The head of UNICREDIT Securities, why would anyone listen to this clown? They're not going to let the titanic sink without a good fight. We all like to blow things out of proportion and this is one such thing. Either we inflate away and the good times continue (Good in relative terms), or we enter one of the worst depressions since 1929.
Deflation and paper currencies don't mix, it breaks the system. Only way is inflation.
Now,correct me if I am wrong,but this sounds good for a 400 point market rally on the DOW today.
If this guy was so good , what of his bank stock price ?
'So good' aside, do you disagree with his statements?
"...how many days the hopeless rearguard action of European governments and the European Central Bank can keep up Greece’s spirits.”
Maybe Greek spirits can be lifted with a massive infusion of ouzo?
I'll raise a glass to default.
This is what happens when you use an automated translation device like Google translator. I read the article in original form and the main points are:
1. Greece is a fabulous place to visit and the women are very trusting.
2. Attila Berzevizcy is hung like a horse.
3. ATM's will soon be able to dispence condoms throughout Europe.
4. Eat at Joe's.
"This guy is optimistic compared to me"
LOL
Basically, count up every gain from this week on in the market, add 'em up, and store than number somewhere.
Because that will probably be the number of the single day DOW loss when Greece finally defaults. I can't wait until the -777 record (ironic how that number was a day's single biggest loss in DOW) get smashed to oblivion.
The Europe, and global financial market collaspe will be like if you took the Red Sox collapse and added a side dish of steaming poop, sprinkled in gold.
Collapse already so a PM backed Drachma can dawn a new Golden Age
Are they electing Max Keiser?
Israel could launch all the arrows in it's quiver in a pre-emptive, defensive first strike (Israel is incapable of agression by definition because of the constant level of palpable threat) and the whole world could follow suit and life, even human life, would survive and thrive ! If the Euro fails, life will go on ! We better get used to it because we're in for a bumpy ride ! Monedas 2011 Poised for Armageddon....and that's no pose !
"Israel is incapable of agression by definition because of the constant level of palpable threat" blah blah blah Ya declare someone to be "THE ENEMY" ya can kill 'em, with no consequence, no penalty, no fine, Praise Jesus!
hmm... didn't a certain political part in Germany, 1930s, use the "PREEMPTIVE DEFENSE" excuse, to invade & attack Poland? (which, by your definition, was NOT "aggression" if you were a good goose-stepping volk who bought into that rational?)
Why is he telling the truth. Their goes his bonus and please watch carefully when you cross the street. Man, you guys read fast. Saving the bulk of this for later.
Hmmm, a lot of "coming to Jesus" moments occuring lately from unlikely sources. I'm seeing it as a massive "oh shit" moment. In other words, these liars are boxed into a critical mass corner so have initiated "Cover My Azz" campaigns.
When the crash happens, today's ADD/ADHD global society will then be reminded by these shitheads how they "warned them". Because we all know, the years/decades of criminal acts by these players will be shelved and replaced by the "last soundbite" from these "heroes".
Right everyone thought this was all great 2 years ago. Now on the eve of collapse, we've got whistleblowers? Too little too late. But at least its something I guess.
More will step up as collapse becomes more and more imminent. And you are right, it will a case of too little too late.
It's classic CYA. They do not want to be swinging from trees.
And his name is... Attila!
LOL!
Please hurry, I would like to buy my apartment in Paris on discount.
Tyler, linky please, ´cause me no findy...
Keep digging; it's in there somewhere.
But don't worry. CNBS will give this extensive coverage on their new channel, CNBC-Antarctica.
Yeah, there's nothing like the truth being "told"! We still have Friday's Bonus going on so...nothing else will matter!
Eh, nothing new here, move along. Just another "imminent" collapse of eurozone. It´s gettin boring.