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Stephanopoulos: "You Reject That It’s A Tax Increase? " Obama: "I Absolutely Reject That Notion"

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From ABC

STEPHANOPOULOS:  You were against the individual mandate…

OBAMA:  Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  …during the campaign.  Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t. How is that not a tax?

OBAMA:  Well, hold on a second, George. Here — here’s what’s happening.  You and I are both paying $900, on average — our families — in higher premiums because of uncompensated care.  Now what I’ve said is that if you can’t afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn’t be punished for that.  That’s just piling on. If, on the other hand, we’re giving tax credits, we’ve set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we’ve driven down the costs, we’ve done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you’ve just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances.  And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that’s…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  That may be, but it’s still a tax increase.

OBAMA:  No.  That’s not true, George.  The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase.  What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…

OBAMA:  No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase.  Any…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  Here’s the…

OBAMA:  What — what — if I — if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, that’s not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I don’t want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  I — I don’t think I’m making it up. Merriam Webster’s Dictionary: Tax — “a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes.”

OBAMA:  George, the fact that you looked up Merriam’s Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you’re stretching a little bit right now.  Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition.  I mean what…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  Well, no, but…

OBAMA:  …what you’re saying is…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  I wanted to check for myself.  But your critics say it is a tax increase.

OBAMA:  My critics say everything is a tax increase.  My critics say that I’m taking over every sector of the economy.  You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we’re going to have an individual mandate or not, but…

STEPHANOPOULOS:  But you reject that it’s a tax increase?

OBAMA:  I absolutely reject that notion.

 

 

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Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:27 | 2570119 DrDinkus
DrDinkus's picture

cant take it anymore...just want to chill in the choomwagon

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:29 | 2570132 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Waka waka!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:35 | 2570173 Titus
Titus's picture

Wanka Wanka! 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:36 | 2570186 fourchan
fourchan's picture

and his whores agree its a tax too.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:49 | 2570252 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

funny thing is this affordable care act is not affordable and blows the budget deficit even wider.

hyperinflation is fucking gauranteed now.

obummer fucker can tax 100% of all income and still wont have enough to balance his GAAP based budget deficit with obamacare.

Bernanke will have to put the printers in OVERDRIVE to pay for this piece of shit legislation and all the liberals still stupid enough to buy the "left/right" paradigm will blame the currency collapse on the "failure of capitalism" and the "tea party" meanwhile it was their own idiocy in voting for unaffordable handouts that brought it on

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:10 | 2570378 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

The comments have been hilarious all day!

Even funnier is that when the right proposed these same steps to counter what Hillary tried to do on health care, it was cool with you. Then when the American Enterprise Inst. said this kind of thing was really smart, you loved it. When Romney did it in Mass., he was so wonderful.

Now Obama does it and it's the end of the Republic, freedom, capitalism, freedom. all hope, and freedom. I think I strained a rib muscle laughing at you all day!

You know, gullibility is not a virtue. Oh, one more thing. HA!!!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:18 | 2570403 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

only idiots like you still believe in the "left/right" paradigm. both parties want to bankrupt the USSA

you know what I believe in?

MATH

when GAAP expenses exceed revenues by about 2-3 times, there's a big fucking problem. now add obamacare expenses on top of that

that shortfall has to be filled with more taxes and more money printing.

basic fucking math.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:21 | 2570433 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Except the government doesn't use GAAP. The economy is doing fine. We're all good. /s

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:39 | 2570550 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

bobnoxy hit it outta' the park, sucka's. Read it and weep.

Here's what the majority said -at the very end of Section III(D) of Robert's opinion-

"The Federal Government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance. Section 5000A is therefore constitutional, because it can reasonably be read as a tax."

What Obama said to that Greek asshole is of no importance.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:52 | 2570649 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

you know what is funny?

When a troll talks to him/her/itself.

Bobby, I knocked all of your teeth out the last time you opened your troll mouth here... do I need to break your jaw for you to get the point?

There aren't two parties in the American political system, only one... the sooner everyone takes the red pill the sooner this shit ends.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:57 | 2571054 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

The fantasies you create in your little mind. You did what, when? And just because you see things some warped way that I don't because it's too fucking stupid for me to accept doesn't mean you've won anything. Little people, little victories. But if it's all you have left in life, I guess you can keep them.

I'm betting that what sits behind your computer is a guy about 5 foot 2 and weighs about 125 poinds that's never been in a real fight in his life, just like all you pro-war chicken hawks. I think I'm safe around you.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:20 | 2571186 fuu
fuu's picture

I'll be your huckleberry.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 01:15 | 2572351 Western
Western's picture

Oh hi max_fischer, nice sock puppet you got here.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:21 | 2570436 The They
The They's picture

the federal government can make us buy anything they want us to buy at the point of a gun! The next logical step is to give them the power to make us THINK anything they want us to think at the point of a gun...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:35 | 2570527 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

I'm having trouble with the auto insurance comparison thingamajiggy.   First of all, I don't absolutely have to have a car.  If I don't have a car then I don't pay auto insurance.    However if my body is equivalent to a car then apparently all I have to do is get rid of my body and it's all apples to apples and I won't need to pay the obamacare tax because well I'm dead.    Ok, now I think I understand.   

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:41 | 2570561 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Funny how his case for personal responsibilty is to place the burden on all of us for the few...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:48 | 2570624 fourchan
fourchan's picture

score one for the kenyan

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:00 | 2570736 Ragnar24
Ragnar24's picture

Thank you! The basic act of simply being ALIVE does not carry the same monetary risks to OTHER humans. If I drop a battle axe on my jugular and can't afford the ER, then I DIE and no one pays for it.  If, on the other hand, I ram my SUV into a "Smart" car there's a good chance that the OTHER person is going to have medical bills... which is why car insurance is mandatory.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:04 | 2570765 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

What luck. You had insurance and didn't go bankrupt, making you a non-viable consumer for the rest of your life. I think you're starting to get this whole insurance/mandate thing, in your dumb ass kind of way.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:36 | 2570959 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

If I drop a battle axe on my jugular and can't afford the ER, then I DIE and no one pays for it

Wow!  You right-wingers are incredibly fucking stupid!  AMAZING! 

Just because people can't afford the ER doesn't mean they aren't using it..... FOR EVERYTHING, even primary care shit.  The thing is, if you've got a battle axe stuck in your neck, you don't stop and say, "hey.... too bad I don't have health insurance... I guess I'll just die now." 

Republicans: feigning outrage and drumming up faux McCarthyism for 3 straight years!

MF

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:21 | 2571194 fuu
fuu's picture

Working all your alts today bitch.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:57 | 2571454 Ragnar24
Ragnar24's picture

Right winger Republican? There's only sheep and non-sheep.  Guess which one you are? Hint: If you still think there are "wings", you're one of the sheep.  

Aside from the baseless ad hominem fallacy of your poorly conceived rebuttal though, if you managed to check your premise that someone else will ALWAYS pay, then you might come understand how fucking IGNORANT you actually are.  

The only reason hospitals have not already gone bankrupt from treating uninsured patients is because the risk is transferred to the state (and the State).  If the implicit bailout of the hospital was removed from the equation, the hospitals would no longer treat battle axe wounds "free" of charge.  But state and local governments will never go bankrupt, right? So I suppose we don't have anything to worry about...

And I know you've been thoroughly mind-fucked by your poli-sci professor so I'm guessing you'll only be awakened once you run out of other people's money to support your idiotic ideology.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 01:35 | 2572365 Western
Western's picture

lol, you always try to legitimize the false left-right paradigm it's so sad because the truth is obviously that america is in deep shit, no political party is going to save them. this is so obvious to everybody now, your tactics would have served better in 2002.

ps, putting a signature by your name is a hilarious quirk, it makes you memorable.

the only hope for you, as a paid internet opinion weather creator is that you actually do know what's going on and are just doing your job.

otherwise, MF, you are truly lost. may the divine have mercy on you.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:12 | 2570803 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Correct..the car insurance bullshit argument is just that - bullshit.

I laugh my ass off at these turd Progressives when they use this weak-assed reason. That SCOTUS used it shows how fucking STUPID they are -and how they think we're stupid.

FUCK THEM. FUCK ALL LIBERAL SHIT-EATING ASSCLOWNS, AND FUCK PROGRESSIVE CUNTS!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:15 | 2571160 Go Tribe
Go Tribe's picture

Yep. They're making us buy equities, too.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:31 | 2570494 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Basic math, assuming costs remain the same so as to get a true picture of the factors you see fault with in isolation, suggests strongly that if someone is paying more, someone else is spending less.

As in, someone with insurance might now get preventive care, precluding a very expensive emergency room visit later. Or not being able to pay and sticking the hospital with the unpayable bill for an emergency room visit like now, transferred to the rest of us in the form of those steadily rising premiums we pay, or jacked up hospital fees.

You know, just how like the rest of us end up paying for shoplifitng losses. You know about that math, right? Or like how my car insurance bills keep rising because of all the accident fraud here in my state. If Obama guaranteed those losses, we wouldn't pay for them like we do now.

Basic math, and common sense. Bottom line, people won't go bankrupt due to medical bills, like they do now even with private insurance, and would then have money to spend on other things, right?

Take an Advil first. I know that's gonna hurt your head.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:54 | 2570691 suteibu
suteibu's picture

If Obama guaranteed those losses, we wouldn't pay for them like we do now.

You're an idiot who believes in the concept of Obama's "stash."  Where does the money come from to guarantee those losses?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:00 | 2570741 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

In this case, it comes from the free riders getting emergency care at the expense of the rest of us now paying for coverage, a basic concept of insurance, or pooling. Forced to buy coverage or pay that $100 tax that you're all feaking out about...never mind. You don't get it because your premise and beliefs require you don't. Have it your way, be stupid.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:15 | 2570831 TMT
TMT's picture

What if they can't afford the "penalty"?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:54 | 2571074 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

$100? I guess that makes them your neighbors.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:20 | 2571371 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

So you're a classist fuck. Got it. I have friends who cannot afford that. That does not make them better or less than you and me. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:33 | 2570936 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

The "free riders" will still be there you idiot. They will now all be getting free health insurance due to their "low income" status and the taxpayers will get the bill. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:38 | 2570951 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

"Have it your way, be stupid."

Typical liberal bullshit cuntbag retort. Facist fuck.

Using bullshit apples to oranges comparisons (shoplifting......seriously???) to health care insurance is the big mistake here.

In addition, this "$100 tax" won't cover SHIT - WILL IT? If it were that simple, things would be all better in fucking utopia-land.

Kind of like...........oh....O'fuckface raising taxes on cigarettes 161%  - to pay for SCHIP bullshit insurance....AND....in the liberal fuckatard mindset, trying to tax smokers (which are mostly poor, so regressively) into quitting smoking....because of the cost.....THEN finding out the revenue from the added taxes IF the smokers DO quit, won't be enough to cover the fucking adult "kids" in the first place!

Smoke up people! We need the reve......WAIT! QUIT!.no....wait.....smoke....we need the bucks....

THEN the same fucktards let a tax loophole for "cigars" and people en mass switch to them.....fuckin laughable!

Fucking retarded...........

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:15 | 2572167 malek
malek's picture

 assuming costs remain the same

Right, and how much have health costs risen annually over the last 30 years?

And how many incentives were put into Obamacare to slow the increase?
NONE.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:40 | 2570556 sadmamapatriot
sadmamapatriot's picture

Individual mandate-invented by Republicans.

Romneycare-passed by Republicans.

Roberts-appointed by Republicans.

 

Well no shit, we are surrounded by fascists. But math is a bitch and she won't be ignored forever. And I will never again have blind party allegiance.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:55 | 2570692 Colonel
Colonel's picture

"Now Obama does it..." You mean like the same warmongering as Bush?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:50 | 2570279 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

THIS IS NOT A TAX!!!! (nixon immitation)
.....
That 50% they'll subtrack from your wages to pay down the interest on the debt will be a tax...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:38 | 2570511 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Maybe I am thinking a bit too far outside the box here and if I am, junk me at your pleasure. However, if Chief Justice Roberts is as far right as I think he is, voting with the majority was a brilliant political maneuver.

By sanctioning the individual mandate as it truly is, a tax, he is forcing Obama to campaign for reelection with an albatross around his neck. That albatross is the fact that through his healthcare plan he will be berated as the man who raised taxes on everyone; rich, middle and poor.

Personally, I don't buy into the left/right paradigm, but most others do and the vote by Roberts is a simply a political move. He is saying to Obama, "If you really want this, I am going make you own it. So here it is, shoved right up your arse."

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:43 | 2570583 mkhs
mkhs's picture

Sacrifice the constitution for a veneal campaign ploy?  More likely he has dementia.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:45 | 2570595 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

The Constitution has been sacrificed for much less!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:36 | 2571566 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

What Constitution? This law then subsequent ruling by the SCOTUS just about makes it irrelevent. This will constitutionally protect these statist to make the People submit to any tyranny they can concoct. Liberty and Freedom are defeated today, and tryanny rules supreme. God help us, and pass the ammo.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:44 | 2570587 sadmamapatriot
sadmamapatriot's picture

Even if Obamacare is repealed, the damage has been done, a mortal wound has been dealt to us all as the legal precedent has now been set. Any government mandate is now legal, period, end of story, as long as you add a tax to the mandate. What kind of mandates you think those self serving folks in DC can come up with? Plenty I tell you, and none of it good.

I am thinking it will be a mandate to buy solar panels from the next Solyndra or cars from GM next time they are failing. Do it for the good of the country, the environment, and the economy, or you will be taxed. I don’t buy any kind of Strategy behind this although it will be the catalyst to get Romney elected. This was just pure dumbfuckery.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:19 | 2570867 pods
pods's picture

I can think of an even more self serving one:

Gov. decrees that x% of your paycheck must buy T-bills.

If not, x% is taken as a tax to make up for the money you did not spend buying T-bills.

Hey why the hell not?  It is LaLa land now.  

pods

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:26 | 2570912 pods
pods's picture

Or, to keep with the mandate to purchase from a private entity:

The Federal Reserve wants to divest itself of the MBS garbage rotting within its hallowed halls.

The US Federal Government is now going to require every citizen to use x% of their income to purchase MBSs from the FED.

If not, said citizen will be required to pay a penalty (tax) equal to the difference between what they should have bought and did.

Then the US Fed.gov will use the proceeds to purchase the rest of the stink because the FED will not loan the Feds any more FRNs without compliance.

I can dream up some great things when ideas when rules no longer apply.

pods

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:25 | 2571207 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Scary (but brilliant) thought! I'm sure it is being considered since now the sky is the limit with this precedent. However with only 50% of people paying income tax the revenue stream seems to be shrinking. Why not go all the way? Mandate all employers to directly submit paychecks to the federal government and they would reimburse the employee what they deem fit. That'll get the pitchforks going... I'm sick of all this incrementalism!

Miffed:-)

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:20 | 2571370 Small Business Guy
Small Business Guy's picture

IF they do try to mandate such purchases, Congress/POTUS will have to do it specifically as a "Tax".  No more trying to hide behind the Commerce clause of the US Constitution.

There goes an enormous hole for judicial activism that just got slammed shut.  Big, big win there.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:05 | 2572274 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Sure, slap 30 solar panels on the house and I will recieve a check for exporting power each month.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:06 | 2570781 PartysOver
PartysOver's picture

Roberts miscalculated.  I will be voting for the first time ALL DEMOCRATS.  Crash this country sooner.  More opportunity for those smart enough to rebuild and make gadzillions.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:06 | 2571997 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"he is forcing Obama to campaign for reelection with an albatross around his neck."

It would, except the ****ing rubes comprising his voter base (to be fair, Mittens' are equally scummy and idiotic) are far too busy being high on hopium to possibly care about such things.

They will happily and enthusiastically tell you "(the messiah comrade Obama) has fixed healthcare" and if you don't like it YOU HATE POOR PEOPLE AND ARE OBVIOUSLY AN INS CO. SHILL WHO PERSONALLY KILLS CANCER-STRICKEN INFANTS!!!1!1!!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:55 | 2570693 ZackLo
ZackLo's picture

Sub-Prime sick care.....and you guys thought they ran out of ideas to blow one last bubble and get that last 5 percent in PPP adjusted buying power before we weimar it.

Mark my words when that money starts flooding at gunpoint the bubble will come and fall just like real estate.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2570190 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Prostitutional expert is not the same as constitutional expert.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:38 | 2570201 Michael
Michael's picture

I am now most definitely going to vote for Obama in November.

This will help make the impotent USA crash and burn much faster.

The people of the USA needs to be so fucked up the ass there is no more ass skin left on their bottom.

I just thank God so much every day on my knees for the complete and total economic collapse of the USA and the world.

It's the only thing that will solve most of our problems, when everybody gets nothing, NOTHING!

Hopefully under obama care, black abortions go up from 51% to about 100% and the incidence of Autism goes from 1 in 50 to 100% as well.

People deserve what they get for being so stupid.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:40 | 2570219 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Little O/T, but not seeing anyything on this @ ZH today.

FYI - Credible sources reporting Turkish military buildup on Syrian border & alerts in Israel and Saudi Arabia

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2012/06/credible-sources-reporting-...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:43 | 2570236 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

<-- Too stupid to get their stories straight

<-- Too arrogant to get their stories straight

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:47 | 2570254 Michael
Michael's picture

And fat people should be taxed more then fit people too, since they cost more to treat.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:11 | 2570385 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

And the impact of homosexuality on health care costs will be kept like a top priority national security secret.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:12 | 2570388 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

How about promiscuous fudge-packers?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:17 | 2570410 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You mean fat people that eat too many different kinds of fudge, thus packing it on?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570437 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

What about those fudge factory workers who have to package the fudge for shipping? 

 

Fudge Packers local 69

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:13 | 2570825 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

+1 for brief levity in a decidedly tense conversation

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:48 | 2570610 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Uh  . . . yeah, that's it!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:17 | 2570843 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

In the new america, you are forced to hire gay people and then pay for their "spouses" health care and the millions it will cost to keep them alive after they acquire HIV. Any questions?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:16 | 2570404 Jake88
Jake88's picture

That's right.  We need a flat tax. Everybody pays the same rate by the pound..

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:18 | 2570417 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Fat tax Jake, Fat tax.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:46 | 2570259 Clinteastwood
Clinteastwood's picture

I'm not flying the American flag this July 4th or ever again 'til this totalitarianism is on the ash heap of history.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:55 | 2570306 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

I'm flying the UN flag.  To make a point.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:00 | 2570738 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I want to fly a Gadsen for "Overthrow the Government Day." But that would be deemed terroristic by the Sheeple. So, I'll just practice my artillery skills (well, if it ever rains again first).

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:28 | 2570894 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

You hillbillies should fly the confederate flag.  Isn't that more accurate?

If you've glued it to the hood of your camaro, just fly your wife's nightgown at the top of a pole.

"We ain't need no healthcare in these backwaters of Amuuurica!"

MF

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:32 | 2570930 pods
pods's picture

Max, you are just so civilized.

I am so glad that you ivory tower types help out us untermensch with our daily toils.

And jackass, it isn't the hood of your camaro, it is the ROOF of your CHARGER.

pods

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:11 | 2570384 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Hang it upside down..

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:15 | 2570400 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

I fly mine upside down ...this country is most definilty in distress

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:32 | 2570499 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

Feel proud to display your flags, wave them high and proud, just upside down that all I'm saying!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:53 | 2570295 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Bingo..

Now it's on, the fucker will go down with the ship.

Time to put a fork in this fucker anyway, im in.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:08 | 2570370 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Calm down.

This is nothing.

A tiny bit of legislation.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:23 | 2570888 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

It is, and it's flawed like most legislation.  Congress would be wise to make the necessary amendments and pass additional legislation to fix our fucked up employer-based insurance system - like tort reform, inter-state insurability, increasing FSA limits, increasing the premium deduction for self-employed and, and, and

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:27 | 2570470 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

People deserve what they get for being so stupid.

 

My annual health insurance review came in at what the insurance company calls an 87% increase. How they came up with that is unknown. Just the new premium for the same coverage was in reality closer to 138% increase. It gets worse after I factor in the the increase in co-pay and decuctable and increase in out-of-pocket. The cost for this would require 2 full time workers at minimum wage to donate 100% of their earnings just to cover the premium. How people are going to be able to afford Obamacare will be interesting to see. Yet, I'm surprised there hasn't been an enormous out cry already.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:08 | 2570793 PartysOver
PartysOver's picture

What is surprising to me is the stupidity of the general public.

That here hasn't been an enormous out cry already is harding surprising.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:57 | 2572336 Jason Bourne
Jason Bourne's picture

Brilliant fucking brilliant!  Of course I completely agree.  There really is no fix until people actually see how fucking stupid they actually are and that Bush and Obama and Romney are fucking liars, who do what they are told to do.  What a disgusting insane super disturbing world we live in.

 

I will vote for Obama too and also sit and do nothing while every stupid fucking law and rule passes.  Gay marriage, presidential authority to assasinate (even citizens) without judicial oversite.

 

The sooner our country goes where it needs to go the sooner it might have a chance of ressurecting.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:45 | 2570247 Dixie Rect
Dixie Rect's picture

Gee officer, I wasn't speeding, I was just exceeding the speed limit.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:31 | 2570138 Temporis
Temporis's picture

Isn't the only reason this shit passed was because Judge Roberts constitutionally said it was a tax?!!?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:42 | 2570226 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

Roberts 'voted' the way he did because he knows this will give the republicans the election. Then it will be short circuited.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:49 | 2570278 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Interesting theory, I hope you are right, but I have my doubts.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:00 | 2570317 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

Or there's truly no difference anymore.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:10 | 2570374 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Hmmm... you mean maybe the politicians - on both sides of the left/right axis - are simply stooges bought and paid for to do the bidding of those of finance their campaigns and bennefit from their legislation?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:56 | 2570705 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

you sir, are one of those crazy conspiritorial nutjobs who makes observations based on evidence and logic.  You need to learn to accept the official mythology!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:08 | 2570357 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Bull.. Roberts voted that way because he is part of the system. Conservatives thought Roberts was a check on the expansion of the state. But it turns out they were wrong. He is a trojan horse to expand the states power in the illusion of choise that we have with the two party system Who, by the way, have the same goals just a different methodology of getting there. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570450 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Bingo.  Another big government conservative.  Also, this whole, "you have to buy automobile insurance" is bullshit too.  I buy auto insurance to protect YOU.  Health insurance on the other hand is supposedly to protect ME.  What if I don't want it, and I dont want all the mandates you put on it because it makes it too costly?  What little shred of freedom we had just went out the window.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:33 | 2570514 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

No no no you have it wrong.  Obama is right.  Driving a car is a choice and people need to be protected from careless drivers.  Health insurance is protection against careless humans who have chosen to be born.  See Obama knows that people are complete morons and the dumber they are the more protection they need from others, who are stupid, as well as themselves as they are stupid too.

 

My question is if there is universal health insurance why do we need auto insurance?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:50 | 2570636 mkhs
mkhs's picture

The cars are people, too?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:30 | 2570927 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

I never saw your first question, but the three since then have been so fucking stupid it's obvious that you're just an antagonist.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:12 | 2570386 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Negatory!  You want to bet that the white house GRU didn't have something on Roberts...I didn't thinks so.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:13 | 2570390 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Maybe the Republicans will celebrate their victory by passing Medicare Part E, Patriot Act 3, and declare a couple of new wars just for the hell of it.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:49 | 2570640 sadmamapatriot
sadmamapatriot's picture

Don't you worry. BO will get in us a few more war theaters before the election. The tail has got to wag that dog now that Romney's base is mobilized.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:49 | 2570637 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Roberts voted the way he did, and wrote the decision because it guts the use of the "commerce clause" by congress...

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/scocca/2012/06/roberts_h...

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 13:13 | 2573765 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

This is true and the commerce clause was probably unconstitutional, but he was smiling so big because he beat the democrats so well.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:32 | 2570156 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

It's not a tax, it's....well it's gonna make all the PMs skyrocket in price.  Because there won't be enough tax revenue to fund it, Obummer and Ben are going to have to print, print, cntl-P like nobody's business.  Think Europe has got problems?  The FRN$ may just beat the Euro to the bottom.  

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:33 | 2570509 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Now we know that anything, including non-participation, can be taxed. Look for taxes on things you own, like PMs and guns. Just like property taxes.

Constitution, RIP

Rule of Law, RIP

Libery, RIP

All thanks to John Roberts, co-architect of tyranny.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:52 | 2570663 mkhs
mkhs's picture

When will I get my tax bill for not supporting the yacht industry?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2570193 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

WHAT THE FUCK...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA

Oh wait, you are all covering my bills.  No biggie. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:42 | 2570195 Michael
Michael's picture

And baby boomers euthanized as quickly as possible too.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:42 | 2570575 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture


NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday.

Professor Patrick Pullicino said doctors had turned the use of a controversial ‘death pathway’ into the equivalent of euthanasia of the elderly.

He claimed there was often a lack of clear evidence for initiating the Liverpool Care Pathway, a method of looking after terminally ill patients that is used in hospitals across the country.

It is designed to come into force when doctors believe it is impossible for a patient to recover and death is imminent.

It can include withdrawal of treatment – including the provision of water and nourishment by tube – and on average brings a patient to death in 33 hours.

There are around 450,000 deaths in Britain each year of people who are in hospital or under NHS care. Around 29 per cent – 130,000 – are of patients who were on the LCP.

Professor Pullicino claimed that far too often elderly patients who could live longer are placed on the LCP and it had now become an ‘assisted death pathway rather than a care pathway’.

He cited ‘pressure on beds and difficulty with nursing confused or difficult-to-manage elderly patients’ as factors. 

Professor Pullicino revealed he had personally intervened to take a patient off the LCP who went on to be successfully treated.

He said this showed that claims they had hours or days left are ‘palpably false’. 

In the example he revealed a 71-year-old who was admitted to hospital suffering from pneumonia and epilepsy was put on the LCP by a covering doctor on a weekend shift.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161869/Top-doctors-chilling-claim-The-NHS-kills-130-000-elderly-patients-year.html#ixzz1z7AvlN3h

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:04 | 2570776 Jena
Jena's picture

I read about the Liverpool Care Protocol last week.  The article is informative, the comments even more so.  Shitty way to die.

Anyone who thinks it can't or won't happen here is probably delusional.  

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:38 | 2570197 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Why don't you just go to the emergecy room and say you want a oxigen treatment? Your paying for it and it relaxes you 100% and it's good for you!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:34 | 2570523 Arnold
Arnold's picture

Is there a connection between Dope http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001767/

and Alzheimers's disease?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 18:21 | 2571357 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Maybe, maybe not.  But there's a huge correlation between drug use and HIV, like 98% of people displaying HIV symptoms have long term drug use, medical and / or non-medical.  1% are cases of outright chemical poisoning.  1% show no symptoms, they're simply misdiagnosed.

HIV among homosexuals is not from their lifestyle, it's from their long term drug use.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:27 | 2570121 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

obammy today:

"i never said it, you didn't hear me say it, don't tell me i said it, i didn't i didn't i didn't"

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:28 | 2570123 CClarity
CClarity's picture

"Okay, it's a tax increase BUT IT'S NOT A PENALTY!!!"

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:39 | 2570211 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If it looks like a duck, kwaaks like a duck, has a brain like a duck it might be your president talking.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:28 | 2570125 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

I honestly wish that a nuclear bomb would level Washington DC, right now! Man I hate that fucking place and all the bastard fucks that live there!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:35 | 2570176 citizen2084
citizen2084's picture

Maybe not a nuke - but something to wipe these criminals off the back of humanity...

peAce

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:39 | 2570212 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

I'm totally okay with a nuke. Hell, it can't be any worse than what Fukushima is spewing out.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:40 | 2570215 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

They'd just increase your taxes to rebuild it.... Only bigger and more inefficient...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:03 | 2570341 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Not in my fantasy, they would all be vaporised and we would send up 535 random names from the phone book... Hell SD, you can be the POTUS as far as I'm concerned.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570438 Jena
Jena's picture

Was it a neutron bomb that eliminated humans but kept structures intact?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:27 | 2570469 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

yep

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:12 | 2570819 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Much better idea Jena, I was being hasty. On second thought a neutron bomb would be far more measured and appropriate...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:17 | 2571502 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

Funny you'd mention that.  Did anyone notice the outside of the SC in camera shots - scaffolded and apparently getting a facelift.  I was there in 2010 and the SC building appeared perfect - beautiful even.  I remember thinking it was second only to the Library of Congress.  But what do I know about maintaining massive marble icons of power.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 14:45 | 2574111 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

PI,

It's easy to spend OPM. Fuckerz!

Ookspay

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:12 | 2570387 reader2010
reader2010's picture

The politicians are put there by the 0.0001% in the first place. They're not the ultimate root cause of the problems that we're facing today. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:27 | 2570476 penexpers
penexpers's picture

I think a neutron bomb will work.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:28 | 2570126 BlueStreet
BlueStreet's picture

"What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance."

 

So insurance premiums are going to go down as a result?  Yea, right.

 


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:30 | 2570144 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Driving a car is a choice.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:36 | 2570187 fuu
fuu's picture

So is living really.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:41 | 2570223 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

That's why they invented the rope.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:41 | 2570231 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

That's why they invented the rope and The Toyota Prius.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:46 | 2570248 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

Don't forget the Volt!! 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:17 | 2570405 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

@ fuu

Suicide, the alternative to living, is a crime.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:20 | 2570429 fuu
fuu's picture

So, what are they going to do, put your corpse in jail?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:24 | 2570458 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Horseshit, you cannot prosecute a corpse.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:34 | 2570512 TMT
TMT's picture

Horeshit you - he said it is a crime.  Prosecution is a different story.  If you fail at suicide, then yes you will be presecuted.

Try to keep up.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:27 | 2571214 fuu
fuu's picture

That would be attempted suicide.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:21 | 2571520 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

I imagine what he meant is that suicide is technically a homicide.  An investigation is only done to determine if there was anyone else involved.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:37 | 2570188 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

and worse, the mandated liability coverage is to insure against damage to others.  no one forces you to buy collision for your own car.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:22 | 2570449 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Doesn't basic law insure that you are liable for actions that you take that cause harm or damages to others? HAHA, basic law! In America? HAHA! Oh, my sides! Stop it, you're killing me. Seriously, you're killing me.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:42 | 2570234 adr
adr's picture

and millions of blacks and hispanics choose not to drive with insurance, forcing you to pay for uninsured driver coverage on your insurance.

My wife was hit by a car that was hit by another car. The car that hit her was driven by a black welfare queen without insurance. I asked the cop who showed up to investigate the accident to arrest the bitch without insurance. He didn't, she just got a ticket.

Later I get a call from a lawyer representing the welfare bitch wanting to use us as witnesses in a case against the first driver. The welfare whore was suing for $500k worth of damages, claiming she couldn't go out and look for work now to satisfy her welfare job hunting commitment.

I said, "Sorry, I won't help a con. Too bad she didn't fucking die, that would have been justice." and hung up the phone.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:51 | 2570271 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Insurance is white collar welfare, just another tool to sap wealth from the poor. If i had nothing, no way would i waste my money on inusrance.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:19 | 2570423 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

There's a lot more racism on ZH than I remember a couple of years back. What fucking difference does it make if she was black or white? There are plenty of white people gaming the system also. Some of the white people are teachers, work for unions and use children for blackmail while their private sector counterparts who perform equaly essential tasks have to take it in the ass.

I hate these fucking leeches as well.. but it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with justice, and this fucking bloated corrupt edifice know as modern western civilisation

The simple answer to this shit is that, assuming she wasnt actually badly injured, she should have been forced to pay for as many years insurance as she could not prove she'd paid (plus costs to prosecute). if she was unable to do this, she should have been allocated some community service which equated this figure plus costs. If she gave an excuse as to why she couldnt work, she should be found a job she is capable of (possibly telephone or computer related). She should not be allowed to sit at home on her fat ass doing fuck all, which is probably what happened.

Anyone on benifits doing fuck all can be found something more productive to do than nothing, even if it means sorting garbage... Give them a two month grace period to find a job..

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:33 | 2570510 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Guess it matters to adr, eh?  It's an unmoderated message board. They're always like this.

It took awhile to catch on, but now all the nigger-haters and jew-haters on the Internet can come here to post so they don't have to worry about their comments being scrubbed.

As for your legal tangent, well....who cares?  There's no "rule of law" here.  It's all just a question who can buy the more effective lawyers.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:52 | 2570679 Troublehoff
Troublehoff's picture

As for your legal tangent, well....who cares?  There's no "rule of law" here.  It's all just a question who can buy the more effective lawyers.

 

Sounds expensive - but nice for the lawyers

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:25 | 2572205 malek
malek's picture

So even if were true, he shouldn't mention it?

You have been completely brainwashed, but fail to realize it. Not being allowed to speak out the truth is the sure-most way to destroy a society.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:35 | 2570180 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

... everybody who owns a car that is.

This is where the argument fails.  Our government has just said to everyone that even if you don't own a car you have to have auto insurance or we'll fine or imprison you should you choose otherwise.

Man, what are the premiums on the ChoomWagon anyway?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:46 | 2570250 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

correct, next up, debtors prisons...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:45 | 2570242 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

More importantly, if an individual cannot afford car insurance he can CHOSE not to drive and avoid any penalties associated with not having auto insurance.

What if an individual cannot pay for health insurance?  Does he go to jail for failing to pay the "tax".

How will this get premiums down if no matter what you do to your body, you will be covered?  NOT SUSTAINABLE.  Competition and good behavior  is what should be encouraged, this will have the opposite effect making the pool of healthy folks even fewer.  Totally fucking stupid and totally naked tyranny.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:37 | 2570541 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

       Does he go to jail for failing to pay the "tax".

I'd assume they just take it out of his EITC or whatever other form of transfer payment he's subsisting on. 

If someone is totally poor and living solely by the contributions of others, he basically doesn't exist as far as government's concerned.  Anyone ever seen a homeless guy arrested for failure to file?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:59 | 2570724 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

It's a bit more complicated than that, especially if the person is the sole provider for a family and has no room in their budget for additional costs.

By the way, if you buy anything, you exist to the Feds,

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:10 | 2570811 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Now there's an assertion that would warrant a request for some evidence, but I don't think you've got any.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:29 | 2570127 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Very taxing conversation for her Presidente'. Didn't know George was allowed to do that!!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:44 | 2570589 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

"Read my lips, George, no new taxes."

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 16:10 | 2570808 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Controlled Dissent: hallmark of a credible facade.

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