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Steve Keen On Europe's Delusion And Why The Entire World Is Turning Japanese

Tyler Durden's picture


Economic Debunker Steve Keen is interviewed by outspoken Irish journalist Vincent Browne and no holds are barred as he describes the Maastricht Treaty as a suicide pact of critically poor central-planning design of a supposed market-economy, based on financial crises never occurring, locking European governments into an austere path when stimulus is required. "Ultimately the Euro has to fail and the longer we continue the farce of believing we can make it function the larger the ultimate crash will be" is how Keen portrays the situation and describes the foreign-exchange, fiscal policy, and monetary policy shackles that have created and exaggerated the situation. This leads into a longer discussion of the state of the World and its inability to 'export into the ponzi' like Japan could from 1990 to 2010 since the entire developed world is trying to do the same thing and "there is no ponzi scheme on Mars that we can export to" leaving the globe without Japan's initial way out. The must-watch 10 minute interview goes on to discuss the endgame (a break in the political compact based on austerity pressures and military or political coups) as Keen sums up "it's amazing to see us repeating the same mistakes that were made during the 1930s but we are doing just that." ending with some potential solutions noting that there is no easy way out of this.

"You need to have accelerating debt forever to have rising asset prices forever and not even debt can accelerate forever"


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Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:10 | 2372213 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

The Suicide Squid of the Great Wal Mart of China, Corzine'd and Vaporized! ...bitchez. 

North Dakota ain't just flat and full of oil now. 

Dancing Bath House Boys, Rosemary's Baby & Rahm Co Supreme Court Robot just got ''organized'' to kill the United States Constitution.

The prophetic lawless bitchez are now completely open to their own claim of dominion, which is destruction and death leading to the ...wait for it  

                                      BLACK HOLE...


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:33 | 2372307 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture



Turning Japanese: referring to a lost decade throughout the next


Maastricht Treaty: that's a nice chapter name for a history book about causes of WWIII

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:44 | 2372347 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

That's what Turning Japanese means??

Man, all these years I've been totally misinterpreting that song by The Vapors...

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:49 | 2372433 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture 

LMAO. Perfcet in reverse, lol, order. Tongues, interpretation, the parable begins in question. Lol. Now that's divesting ...bitchez. Lol. ??? Lol

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:38 | 2372434 ACP
ACP's picture

Not a chance. If there was a tidal wave and earthquake that killed 15,000 people in LA, there would be looting like nothing else.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:44 | 2372436 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

"turning Japanese" a reference to masterbation, which reflects the current state of the financial system; printing money = masterbation.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:07 | 2372462 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Ah, Christian fundamentalism. I will never understand why anyone considers it relevant.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 22:51 | 2372216 cnhedge
cnhedge's picture


An update on TARGET2

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 22:55 | 2372225 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 My name is " Yen Cross"  Care to discuss?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:00 | 2372244 FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

How many Yen does it take to Cross a road?


No pun intended, bitchez.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:34 | 2372327 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

Why did the Yen cross the road?

Bad joke intended.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:55 | 2372573 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Because a Euro was stapled to a chicken? 

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:00 | 2372524 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 About 83.50 aud/jpy on the dip!   I won't share the other 2 sides of the trade. Pun intended "Junior!"

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:50 | 2372360 prains
prains's picture

Yen Cross, i believe but could be wrong, translates into irish as "fuck shiite", but like i said this is still just a theory

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 05:57 | 2372685 johny2
johny2's picture

My theory is that Yen Cross is not a human being, but an algo program that besides trading fx, likes to read and comment on ZH. 

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:43 | 2372503 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Yen Cross What? Kiwi Dollar, Thai Baht, What?!!!

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 22:58 | 2372237 FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

Still waiting for this view to start trickling it's way in the MSM.

Looks like I'll be waiting a while..


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:21 | 2372291 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"noting that there is no easy way out of this"


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:04 | 2372525 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You are a trickle. No numbers and Bull Shit as usual! What is the MSM doing to you little boy?

  The MSM sets your trading plans? Looser!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 06:27 | 2372705 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Pay no attention to the pretenders YC....keep on keepin on.

Dispassionate. Long and short. Fuck the naysayers.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:02 | 2372241 FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

Paul Krugman on Israel, interesting read.


Seems like he understands the issue, sort of.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:39 | 2372279 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

This is all you need to know about Israel and you can take this to the bank:

"We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. . . . Our armed forces . . . are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under."

Professor Martin Van Crevald, January 30th 2003

(p.s. Van Crevald's "The Rise and Decline of the State" is interesting and the US military thought highly of his "The Transformation of War"

back in the day.)


Shalom goyim

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:53 | 2372446 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Israel: Threatens to nuke Europe, not a shit is given.

Iran: Tries to build a civilian nuclear power plant and OH MY FUCKING GOD WE HAVE TO INVADE.

Double standards, bitchezzzz.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:26 | 2372484 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

This is the classic "act like a crazy person" deterrence method.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:15 | 2372280 nah
nah's picture

i dont get it...

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:35 | 2372322 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

And that was before they got the free German nuclear-armed subs....


I've got some magic beans I think you'll be very interested in....


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:47 | 2372355 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

Mr. Krugman understands quite well. Read between the lines? He is crying out for tolerance, in a world that seems on a path of self-destruction. No one wants to give, talk, or listen in the political arena where 'all' worldly power brokers,have turned their biases inward, abandoning the outer voice of their constituents.  

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 06:29 | 2372707 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Krugman is a putz. Period. He couldn't get out of his bathroom without a map.

Met him once, right after he "won" his Nobel. Total douche.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:02 | 2372245 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 FX Porential?  A Trick Question?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:03 | 2372250 FXPortent
FXPortent's picture


  1. A sign or warning that something, esp. something momentous or calamitous, is likely to happen.
  2. Future significance: "an omen of grave portent for the tribe".
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:05 | 2372259 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Actually the Euro as designed would have worked. The problem is nobody followed the rules of limiting deficit spending to 3% of GDP as prescribed by the treaty instead of the 10-15% of GDP they did spend.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:04 | 2372363 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It would have worked but it didn't. The reason it didn't work is because you had a centrally planned currency trying to function in a balkanized area. Each area with their own political agenda.Which by the way is where we will be in a few years.
The other area of failure is reliance on perpetual growth. Deficits are easy to hide in growth mode. Not so easy once growth stops.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:25 | 2372540 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Actually the Euro as designed would have worked.

Would have worked?

It's working perfectly, exactly as bankers want it to.




Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:06 | 2372260 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You caught that " H-4" Parabolic sar"?

 Your " worthless diatriabe" ( ?)


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:17 | 2372265 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

+1 Prof. Steve Keen for calling it by its proper name 'Ponzi Scheme'

But how to get the population to swap euros in for punts and how to force the banks into playing along? Awareness.

The whole world needs to do this in some form or other. Force government created money into the system and remove the private debt central bank fiat over a couple of years combined with some sort of Jubilee. Until currencies can be stabilized and brought back online in FX markets perform international settlement in gold, silver and commodities.

I can dream can't I?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:36 | 2372332 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'd rather see them do like they are in areas of Greece. Start bartering locally and saying screw you to the fiat crap. The only way this will be solved is starting over and building up the local communities. The centrally planned global corporate machine needs to be starved to death.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:17 | 2372367 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

I agree with you the machine needs to fuck off and die and the solution proposed would not do that. The same people would be in the same positions to impose the same central planning bullshit SSDD.

But what to do with the millions if not billions that are hopelessly plugged in and dependant on the machine? How to achieve such a paradigm shift without moral hazard and threat to life? We can't sit around waiting on a pole shift or major solar event and nuclear war would leave the planet toxic.

One must stand up and act and the only moral acts short of being a Mennonite right now are buying physical silver, preparation, awareness and civil disobedience. If you or anyone else have anything else please do, we are not the only ones that feel stuck.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:50 | 2372513 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture


But what to do with the millions if not billions that are hopelessly plugged in and dependant on the machine?

Not my problem, I have enough trouble with family, friends and neighbors.

And buy as much gold as silver.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:30 | 2372550 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



But what to do with the millions if not billions that are hopelessly plugged in and dependant on the machine?

Who cares, let 'em die, good riddance.

But no, the machine isn't going away, stop dreaming, come back to the real world.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:59 | 2372577 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Or move to Iceland.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:11 | 2372266 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Let's discuss the " MoF data" I'll PDF. it to ya !

  Give me an E.Mail.?

                                That info after the G- 20 , and the KAMPO ideas?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:10 | 2372267 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Clarke & Dawe

Clarke and Dawe - Understanding the Craig Thomson issue. (2:37)

Clarke and Dawe - Courtesy Costs You Nothing (2:45)

Clarke and Dawe - Important new research reveals enterprise doomed from the start. (2:48)

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:13 | 2372277 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

It's not the time, Goldilocks!  Let me have some fun?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:26 | 2372268 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

This is the droid you're looking for and, somewhat surprisingly, this droid has legs:


(Jeez, I'm on fire here. Can someone text me Oscar Wilde's number?)

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:13 | 2372276 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Sell forward yen against a barbaric relic?

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:20 | 2372282 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hows' this?  You are an IDIOT!

                                         SELL FORWARD, is along Dead Term!  have you ever heard of ?  PUTS/CALLS?


  Git Er done " Goldi Locks" !

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:31 | 2372317 Freebird
Freebird's picture

How's this? You are an ASSHAT!
What ever works for you dick.
Perhaps you would care to explain not just to me but the broad ZH audience why forwards are a "DEAD TERM".

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:40 | 2372339 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Hows this? You are a basement baby! 

   Never owned anything, and answer to your Mommie, Every Day!

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:53 | 2372365 prains
prains's picture

Yen there's alot of shiite in your fuck, lay off the pipe too.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:29 | 2372546 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Ohhh the truth hurts, Basement Boy!  I'll never lay off you! It's just getting fun!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:11 | 2372380 Freebird
Freebird's picture


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:06 | 2372385 Freebird
Freebird's picture

You are up yourself aren't you? What happened? Ran out of tampons? Another position went against you? Other posters taking the piss out of you again? Grow up you little pubescent asswipe & stop wasting bandwidth with your pathetic diatribe. Yen Cross? Unable to explaim why puts & options over forwards ( which are futures loser). Assclown..

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:14 | 2372389 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Real hard to trade on these Blckbrys

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:17 | 2372404 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The simple fact " Remains"   You rent , and I own!

                       FREE BIRD? as if you have ever seen Lynyrd Skynyrd!  Or driven anything beyond your " Key Pad"!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:31 | 2372551 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  He's a big boy. Let him bark up his own tree!

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:17 | 2372285 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

Shameless plug:

Good stuff over there.  Enjoy!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:47 | 2372440 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Here's a trade I'd do with the Aussies any day of the week:

Paul Krugman and his Nobel medal for...

Steve Keen and a case of Foster's.



Wed, 04/25/2012 - 05:31 | 2372660 Praetor
Praetor's picture

Aussies don't drink Fosters.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 11:10 | 2373440 Assetman
Assetman's picture

But I do... and that's all that matters. :)

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:20 | 2372288 sablya
sablya's picture

When is something serious going to happen?  It's always on the horizon but nothing ever happens.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:46 | 2372352 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I hope it never happens to the degree of which I think it can. I'd like to see it collapse and then the people responsible for this mess to be held accountable. I don't think that's gonna happen though. More than likely it's going to get ugly and a lot of people will die.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:22 | 2372293 TMT
TMT's picture

Perhaps trivial but I wish the author would expound on how he defines stimulus and where the money would come from:

"locking European governments into an austere path when stimulus is required."

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:20 | 2372406 mendigo
mendigo's picture

I agree in that the stimulus is potentially just as much a problem as the austerity.

And to hold Japan up as an example of a better alternative puts him on shakey footing as well I think.

I also don't see the connection between hardship and war - poor peolpe are relatively easily controlled in general I would think.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:37 | 2372431 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

Mainly, Keen says we must recognize debts can't be paid, so we should wipe out the lenders rather wiping out the govts and their citizens to pay the lenders...either the debtors or the lenders must lose as Ponzi scheme is at its end, better for almost all for lenders to be wiped out. Austerity is not allowing default, not allowing bankruptcy. Steve also makes the case debt is money, banks create debt (money) from thin air, and much of that debt/money ends up in speculative assets, not productive investments and that the reason mainstream economists were so surprised by global financial crash is they fail to consider how debt effects the economy...specifically he notes that it is the acceleration of debt that drives changes in GDP, so when debt decelerates, as it does when people default, lenders become nervous, things go very badly for an economy.

Really most of his stuff is common sense to regular folks but he backs it up with dynamic modeling, not that mainstream economist listen to him, to them debt doesn't matter, economies can be modeled with static equations ..

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:51 | 2372444 mendigo
mendigo's picture

I agree the potential problem with austerity is that its primary intent is to maintain the status quo - the rich get richer and the poor try to survive. Wild-ass inflation on the other hand would level the playing field as would debt write-down but that won't happen for regular folks.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 05:20 | 2372652 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

paying the debt? there is not enough money in circulation to pay it......



Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:59 | 2372523 azusgm
azusgm's picture

I don't think he was holding up Japan as any kind of good alternative.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:21 | 2372408 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

Just check out Steven Keens blog, plenty of analysis and proposals there

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:27 | 2372300 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Repudiate the debts and lock the banksters into prisons.

A punt = euro. A euro = punt. And that will get the banksters paid.

Why is there someone saying that it is a good idea to pay the bankster cartel?

He sure trashed that idea by quickly agreeing to: "there is no easy way out."


Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:44 | 2372346 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Q99, you are all of 25 years old. I appreciate your concepts, but humanity still runs the banking cartell!

    Let me advise you. Develope an " algo" or stay on the porch!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:30 | 2372420 mendigo
mendigo's picture

I suspect that potentially the way out is relatively easy but it involves recognizing the bancrupt nature of the situation and for those who have successfully hoarded the "wealth" that is not an acceptable senario. Money is only a fiat - it is not the asset.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:21 | 2372479 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

Cunt punt = fun son.

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:29 | 2372310 Hallpass2012
Hallpass2012's picture

excellent interview, worldwide Japanese scenario until WACC > servicing cost, then you better hope you have gold (other precious metals), girls, an armory, ammo, food, and a bunker... once the game is over, it is war time........

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:49 | 2372354 chiswickcat
chiswickcat's picture

Can someone tell Vincent Brown, 'wright down' is not the same as 'write OFF'. 

Tue, 04/24/2012 - 23:49 | 2372357 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The Bank of Japan is going to " Inflate the balance sheet" on Friday! It's priced in!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:05 | 2372384 prains
prains's picture


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:07 | 2372386 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Coat Tailer!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:14 | 2372399 prains
prains's picture

Moat Sailor!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:45 | 2372410 prains
prains's picture

you need to find a safe port



you know, the place where every post of ridicule you make is really just trying to tell us how great you are. sorry if my english overwhelms you.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:49 | 2372442 prains
prains's picture

where is it fuck shiite?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:18 | 2372539 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

English Trite! Do you actualy think I would waste one IODA of my time on you?

 You are an unemployed, little child! I like people like Slewie! When you get serious about trading/ not smoking dope!

 Send me a message! Otherwise , have fun looking at those magazines and wishing, you little " Bovine Neurophysin"!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 10:31 | 2373307 prains
prains's picture

you just spent alot of time telling me you'd not waste your time. what's it gonna be toilet swabber.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:00 | 2372373 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

There is no easy way out...

... of spent nuclear fuel

...  of debt that cannot be repaid, by anyone, anywhere

...of nuclear armed zionist blind alleys

...when there are no more suckers for the Ponzi


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:00 | 2372374 Misean
Misean's picture

The world can't turn Japanese. Japan's Keynsian malaise exists because the rest of the globe was NOT Japan. Unless the Aliens show up soon, there will be an epic implosion.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:02 | 2372378 FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

Honestly, blue chip companies like Sony are already struggling...


If Japan takes an absolute turn for the worst, that would send tremors throughout the electronic industry.



Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:09 | 2372390 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

fx pORTENT/ Get  " MACRO"@!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:24 | 2372412 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

The electronic industry? How amuzing; you think we're discussing the Electronic Industry? We're discussing the failure of modern un-anchored fiat currency systems.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:08 | 2372387 nomorebuyins
nomorebuyins's picture

Seriously looks like nothing bad will ever happen, ever. Freemarkets (if they ever existed) are dead.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:10 | 2372392 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You sit behind a desk, and work for me!  SERIOUSLY!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:11 | 2372391 sitenine
sitenine's picture

Keen is right about the Ponzi scheme, and he is right about the treaty of course.

He definitely lost me with the 1 to 1 Euro for local only Punt trade babble though.


BTW you might all enjoy this.  I saw it a little early today, and enjoyed the commentary very much.  Absolutely brilliant - Max Keiser interviews Dr Michael Hudson (second half of video - watch first half for the always lovely Stacy Herbert :)

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:12 | 2372396 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 You obviously missed the deriviatives course, whilst incuring debt!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:36 | 2372430 blindman
blindman's picture

stacy had been drinking before that episode, yes?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:44 | 2372505 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Great comment " Blind Man" obviously traveled!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:57 | 2372521 blindman
blindman's picture

do not get me wrong, i love the max and stacy 24 minutes.
but ... she does laugh at the most hideous subject matter.
as the saying goes .she must have "a mean streak in her bikini."
i hope that is not taken the wrong way.
have you noticed? by the way, there are more lyrics where
that quote came from.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:27 | 2372544 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Sorry, I lost your train of thought? Confused?  What ever the lyrics may be, I'm sure they are good!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:53 | 2372570 blindman
blindman's picture

i don't like to repeat links too much but i'll make an exception
for you this time. " mean streak..."
Rainmakers - One more summer (110329, Oslo)
" a pair of season tickets to a world of wonder,
give me one more summer..."
apologies, i can not easily locate a quality audio for this.
"Government Cheese" by the Rainmakers (audio only)
The Rainmakers - Let My People Go-Go
etc.....( turn it up till you hear it

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 03:16 | 2372587 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'll book mark it for tomorrow. Got charts to go over , for a quick trip up to S.F. in the morning. Thanks for the links.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:18 | 2372538 azusgm
azusgm's picture

Not the first time, blindman.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:08 | 2372463 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

It will not work any better than the division of the germany's where the official exchange rate was 1:1 east to west marks but the street exchange rate was 13:1

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:17 | 2372405 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

punt= pound (with a heavy Irish accent)

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:21 | 2372409 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I see a bunch of ass hat 20 somethings, that are umemployed. They have parents that divorced, when they were young.

   I don't hate ya guys and gals. I just don't have enough jobs!


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:53 | 2372447 prains
prains's picture

running a crew of toilet swabbers in bingbongpow province is not a job. it's a lifestyle.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:23 | 2372411 blindman
blindman's picture

@.."worse than japan." ... ?
try palestinian, that is the bunker mentality model.
the digital bunker economy, coming to a flat screen near you?
Tuesday, April 24, 2012
Leo Zagami : The Vatican and the Illuminati Connection
and this fa'latta ..
Greg Palast : BP Blow-out Cover-Up
same link, same day.
anyway, things are looking up somehow. as more people just reject everything
we may be on the right path?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:27 | 2372414 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

The "right path" involves the "great die off"; don't forget that. Employment statistics are a ratio; a fraction. there is a numerator and a denominator. If twenty percent of the population are un-employed the problem can be solved by eliminating twenty percent of the population.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:34 | 2372427 blindman
blindman's picture

@" The "right path" involves the "great die off"; don't forget that." ..
i don't believe that. that thought is a product of fiat money based thinking,
as is the notion of employment for "money". the world is yearning for
a good 30 percent of the employed to stop doing the work they do as it
is of no actual good or use or service to anything that is demanded or
desired by the populations at large. the system is broken and is breaking
the people from the top down. the world view you hold determines your
destiny but it is a mutable affair if you can think, no?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:32 | 2372424 FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

In defense, I get the Macro picture entirely.

I was just saying that if Japan falls, so does Sony and I'm sure a few other notable companies too.

Outside of that, yes that would mean impending economic turmoil for just about everyone else.

No need to get all jumpy on me.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:25 | 2372541 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

If Japan falls? Macro pictures?  Just what do you think the ( MoF/ BoJ) has been doing post " intervention" ?

  Investing through " monetization"! Look it up! Look at Kampo and cross flows! japan isn't falling, it's just inflating!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:43 | 2372437 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Yen Cross's shrink has said just humour him, accept his warped apologies & he should be ok in the morning. If not they plan to take his leverage away..

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:42 | 2372501 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I am the shrink! The only warpage, is the fact " THAT " I have owned and " DRIVEN" it and you haven't!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 00:44 | 2372438 nomorebuyins
nomorebuyins's picture

Quiet night here, makes me nervous.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:10 | 2372531 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 By all means/ Let me refresh your " cerebellum".  And of course the economic Calendar.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:01 | 2372439 Freebird
Freebird's picture


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:06 | 2372460 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

The problem is you think this global economic system is some kind of natural or super natural force.  But it is a creation of man, and obeys only the laws of man, specifically the powerful men who control it.  The European Union is the corner stone of the New World Order and one world government.  If it fails, they fail.  Therefore, the E.U. cannot fail without a literal collapse of all of Western civilization and probable world war.


Someone tell me how to go long Europe based on the notion that the E.U. will survive the next 30 years and I'll make that trade tomorrow, with 50% of my net worth.  Leverage and some kind of financial shenanigans all the better.


The various oligarchs and plutocrats in charge of the New World Order will never let the European Union fail.  You're a fool to think otherwise.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:10 | 2372465 Darkness
Darkness's picture

How can I bet Europe will fail outside of holding gold?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:15 | 2372468 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

Whereas I want to know the opposite.  Because based on my belief in the NWO, I see no possibility for a European failure.


Sadly, guys like us are left out in the cold while douche bags like Kyle Bass make 70,000% returns on these kind of bets.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:21 | 2372473 newengland
newengland's picture

Fear not. Buy gold, silver and land. If not that, then stay closest to family and neighbours.

Live to fight another day.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:46 | 2372508 nomorebuyins
nomorebuyins's picture

Not sure if they have anymore gold..

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:17 | 2372469 newengland
newengland's picture

The EUSSR, the euro...the project of the Trilateral Commission, the new feudalists, the old fascists.

It is designed to fail for the masses, and profit the globalist central bank cartel.

End the Fed.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:19 | 2372475 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

A longer more indepth interview with Keen is up this week here, going into his jubilee plan:

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:44 | 2372506 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Thanks for the link!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:22 | 2372480 heinrich6666
heinrich6666's picture

That crusty Irish interviewer is sad proof of just how prepared the Irish are to overcome the crisis. --An imaginative solution? Bollocks. Far better to simply drink ourselves into despair.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:32 | 2372491 newengland
newengland's picture

Stay sober. Fight the psychopaths running the money machine: the Trilateral Commission.

If you cannot do that, then get drunk to dull your pain.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:47 | 2372510 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm not complaining! Keep a close eye on your front yard! All those liberal/leftists might burn a " pentagram" in your yard tonight!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 01:45 | 2372507 jack stephan
jack stephan's picture

Max: If I die today, I die a happy man.
John: You die today, I'm taking your motor.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:12 | 2372534 aleph0
aleph0's picture




Money As Debt II: promises unleashed (FULL MOVIE)

There have already been many videos made on this subject, but this one is definitely worth passing around.

 For the impatient or "already initiated" , suggest starting at 48 minutes. Basically it clearly explains why this all ( Western FR System )  must end either with hyperinflation or default.
Shows how, why  and when Common Law was ignored ...  whilst at the same time the BoE was created ... showing how the current banking system is based on 5 pillars of Fraud.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:14 | 2372535 amanfromMars
amanfromMars's picture

Hi Tyler,

Not everyone is so stupid as to keep on repeating catastrophic mistakes. Some beings can actually think for themselves and present new life to failed dreams and idiotic memes.


Posted Wednesday 25th April 2012 04:28 GMT amanfromMars 1 ….. being a tease and flirting on


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In Live Operational Virtual Environments, is Nobody a Fool and Tool of the Status Quo into Maintaining and Transferring the Crazy Scams and Analogue Deprivations of the Failed Empire Development .....with its Fools' Gold Paper Wealth Currency feigning Power and Control without Brains ..... and that in AI and Virtual Market Spaces/New Orderly World Cyber Places would be a Guarantee on/for/in Madness ......... which is an interesting CHAOS with presumably Advanced Beta Cloud Systems of its own.



IT's the new AAA Assured, Code XSSXXXX Rated, Wild Cyber Child ..... Assisting Astute Autonomous AnonymIT Guarantees in StealthE IntelAIgent Services, Apps and Promotions ....... HyperRadioProActive ProgramMING Projects.

Clouds Hosting Advanced Operating Systems are perfectly normal for Virtualisation and Power Control of Future Realities supplying Media Channels and ICT, ITs Feeds and Seeds and Needs ...... Immaculate Originative Source Material/RAW MetaDataBase for Enrichment Processing.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:27 | 2372542 blindman
blindman's picture

there is nothing democratic or free about infrastructure or
technology. these things work or not based on precision
and consistency, absolute conformity, when it seems natural
and effortless it is art.
i need to research the term technocracy immediately. i'm sure
it applies to the monetary system as well as the communication
system that will usher in the end of the world, er i mean
the new beginnings.
"..United States and Canada
A sign on the outskirts of a Depression-era town about meetings of the local technocracy branch.
Map of the North American Technate.
Howard Scott has been called the "founder of the technocracy movement"[1] and he started the Technical Alliance in New York near the end of 1919. Members of the Alliance were mostly scientists and engineers. The Technical Alliance started an Energy Survey of North America, which aimed to provide a scientific background from which ideas about a new social structure could be developed.[18] However the group broke up in 1921[19] and the survey was not completed.[20]

In 1932, Scott and others interested in the problems of technological growth and economic change began meeting in New York City. Their ideas gained national attention and the "Committee on Technocracy" was formed at Columbia University, by Howard Scott and Walter Rautenstrauch.[21] However, the group was short-lived and in January 1933[22] splintered into two other groups, the "Continental Committee on Technocracy" (led by Harold Loeb) and "Technocracy Incorporated" (led by Scott).[23][24]

At the core of Scott's vision was "an energy theory of value". Since the basic measure common to the production of all goods and services was energy, he reasoned "that the sole scientific foundation for the monetary system was also energy", and that by using an energy metric instead of a monetary metric (energy certificates or 'energy accounting') a more efficient design of society could be made.[25] Technocracy Inc. officials wore a uniform, consisting of a "well-tailored double-breasted suit, gray shirt, and blue necktie, with a monad insignia on the lapel", and its members saluted Scott in public.[3][26]

Public interest in technocracy peaked in the early 1930s:
left brain/right brain ( time ) is
heaven and hell. money and monkeys

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:59 | 2372555 amanfromMars
amanfromMars's picture


So, further to the above, and with particular and peculiar reference to the post dated and timestamped Wed, 04/25/2012 - 02:14, is the sentence .....

This leads into a longer discussion of the state of the World and its inability to 'export into the ponzi' like Japan could from 1990 to 2010 since the entire developed world is trying to do the same thing and "there is no ponzi scheme on Mars that we can export to" leaving the globe without Japan's initial way out.

….. fundamentally and factually incorrect and are we presented with a heaven sent opportunity and virtual portal to a real enough recovery which distributes prosperity through currency provision for spending, allowing for remote mentoring of SMART Intellectual Property markets and AI Programs which create and tender to Ab Fab Fabless Growth and Constructive Cyber Services? 


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 04:10 | 2372617 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

"when stimulus is required"
--- I don't read Keynesian BS anymore and I am not looking for it at ZH.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 06:46 | 2372717 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Yes, that was the turd in the punch bowl, wasn't it.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 06:56 | 2372721 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Um, the little label you were looking for that you Yanks always need is: post-Keynesian.

You should give it read some time, I think you might find it refreshing. I fear any movement coming out of Austria. Somehow it always degenerates into a religion at the expense of pragmatism.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 07:04 | 2372727 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"pragmatism" and "expediency"... The two most-overheard words on the road to hell.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 07:55 | 2372818 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Nothing is more expedient than dogma, dear friend. Remember that next time you prepare your "End the State!" idealistic post. The 'State' will be with us while you will be long gone. Nobody is asking to like it but some acknowledgement would go a long way to demonstrate a firm hold of reality.

Jus' sayin'

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 06:04 | 2372688 eckart
eckart's picture

I like Steve but don't agree with him on the EUR. But he doesn't look at the politics; politicians can always let the banks fail to save the EU...and they will

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 07:38 | 2372791 fearsomepirate
fearsomepirate's picture

Well, his entire argument is based on the premise that recessions are cured by government spending and printing money...which is exactly what Japan did.  And he repeats the mercantilist fallacy "exports good; imports bad" which is complete bullshit.  Not to mention his belief that economies are created by governments.

If someone doesn't understand that the endless deficits and inflation *are* the problem, not a government's inability to continue them, or that prosperity has exactly nothing to do with a government balance sheet, he's not going to be able ot offer helpful solutions.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 08:11 | 2372837 Kina
Kina's picture

That is not the context of what he was saying, it is not his postion. Seems you know nothing about Keene. Best you research first. Go to his website, read his articles.


Heal your ignorance.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 09:17 | 2373004 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

Punt = Euro, Euro = Punt, Punt buys beer in pub, punt don't buy shit anywhere else.. You want oil with punts, it is not going to happen...punt = Shit storm!!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:22 | 2374963 Sean Fernyhough
Sean Fernyhough's picture

Economically there may be an approach towards being Japanese.  In fact, as he suggests, it will be worse: 1) we have negative real interest rates 2) we have less cohesive societies in USA and western Europe than in Japanese.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:26 | 2374970 Sean Fernyhough
Sean Fernyhough's picture

The parallel currency idea is not new - The Irish would use the currency for their domestic economic activity.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:23 | 2375449 rex-lacrymarum
rex-lacrymarum's picture

I'm sorry, but this guy is a snake-oil peddler, not an economist - even if he gets one or two things right in his analysis, the rest is simply more central planning hokum. 

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