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"Struggle Of The Ant Tribe" - China's Broken Dreams
Those who think that China's centrally-planned transition to the world's leading, fastest growing economy in the shortest time in world history, coupled with its attempt to shift from a mercantilist, export-driven economy, to one sporting the world's largest middle class is progressing smoothly and according to plan, especially as related to millions of overeducated young adults who are finding it impossible to find a job in China's big cities, and find their diplomas uselss in the small ones, are urged to watch the following documentary exposing "China's Broken Dreams." From Al Jazeera: "[The Chinese] people are discovering that society's resources and opportunities are increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few. People in the middle and lower strata of society are becoming increasingly marginalised and are finding that improving their lives is getting harder. [This imbalance could lead to] the rich getting richer and the poor poorer, the strong permanently strong and the weak permanently weak .... The biggest harm may not be in the gap between rich and poor itself, but the deterioration of the overall societal ecosystem." Translation: class war unlike anything seen even in America, where class war is the basis for the entire presidential campaign. Because unlike the US, "class war" in China will have a far more true to its name outcome.
From Al Jazeera:
Despite the country's rapid economic growth, many young Chinese are growing disillusioned as they struggle to find jobs.
After two decades of economic reform, per capita GDP has risen 13-fold, and average salaries in major cities are on par with those in many developed countries. The post-80s generation, the first to come of age in this era of opportunity, has been raised on a belief that if one can do well in school, graduate from a good university and work hard on his or her career, one can enjoy a measure of success.
Instead, many find themselves squeezed by skyrocketing housing costs, rising prices for basic necessities and family pressures. As a large percentage of the post-80s generation are only children, they alone will be expected to provide for their parents and older relatives.
As many as three million young Chinese professionals toil in slum-like conditions in cramped housing on the outskirts of big cities. They are known as 'ant tribes,' a term coined by scholar Lian Si, China's foremost researcher on post-80s graduates.
"They share every similarity with ants," writes Lian. "They live in colonies in cramped areas. They're intelligent and hardworking, yet anonymous and underpaid."
Li Zhirui from China's northeast is one of them. Home is an eight square metre space outside Beijing that costs 500 Chinese yuan per month, a quarter of his salary. He dreams of one day buying an apartment, but with average real estate prices in the capital soaring to more than 20,000 yuan per square metre, he could be in for a very long wait.
He has already lost his fiancée, who dumped him when he refused to buy a second-hand car and an engagement ring.
The experiences of Li and other 'ant tribes' resonate strongly with young Chinese and have spawned a popular song and a TV series called Struggle of the Ant Tribe.
But for some despair takes over. Suicide has become the biggest cause of death for Chinese between 15 and 34 years of age.
In a recent trend, some young graduates are deciding to flee the big cities and instead seek opportunity in smaller cities and towns. But there, too, they are frustrated, as they discover that good diplomas - and even ability - do not open doors. Local networks and family background do.
Leading Chinese sociologist Guo Yuhua calls this phenomenon of young Chinese "escaping and returning" an example of widespread disappointment that is spreading across China. She says people are bitter when they see their social status languishing in contrast to the "rise of a great and powerful nation".
"People are discovering that society's resources and opportunities are increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few. People in the middle and lower strata of society are becoming increasingly marginalised and are finding that improving their lives is getting harder," she says.
She warns this imbalance could lead to "the rich getting richer and the poor poorer, the strong permanently strong and the weak permanently weak .... The biggest harm may not be in the gap between rich and poor itself, but the deterioration of the overall societal ecosystem."
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The class war is over.........the upper class won.
lol, indeed sir, indeed.
Cue AnAnonymous with his "middle class is the king class" drivel.
The same tragic story is repeated in every part of the capitalist world. Rich business men keep all the money for themselves, and refuse to share. If you ask me, I think that China would have been better off without free market reforms. Sure, under Mao there were problems, but at least they had equality. Now look at China - free market reforms have been absolutely disastrous for equal opportunity and the social fabric of society.
All of us are equal. Some more equal than others. Especially under Mao.
"People are discovering that society's resources and opportunities are increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few. People in the middle and lower strata of society are becoming increasingly marginalised and are finding that improving their lives is getting harder," she says.
With so much corruption in government it's getting harder and harder to find any difference between communism and capitalism these days.
Yeh, I mean ... it's not like capitalism has provided anything better than communism. There are still rich people, and poor people, just like in the communist era. In fact, there's been no real measurable change at all in China since the introduction of "economic freedoms". The only difference is that instead of state oppressors, China now has capitalist overlords trying to hire them and sell them goods and services. It's just as bad.
Poor Chinese need to get away for a vacation to relax...
Brings a whole new mental picture for "clusterfuck"
I believe that's pronounced "crusterfuck"
" 'They share every similarity with ants ?' I take offense with that assertion, mate."
http://i2.listal.com/image/1164447/600full-adam-and-the-ants.jpg
"...impossible to find a job in China's big cities, and find their diplomas uselss in the small ones..."
but, but, ants don't have diplomas and they do not differentiate small from big cities, no?
pleeeeeaase nobody pee in the pool
Looks like a herd of "Wildebeest" , running from the Lions only to be eaten by the crocs, when they jump into the river! <>
I wonder in what context the photo was taken, I have a feeling it is not what it appears.
In any event, I have found that people in China are more free than in Chicago or New York. They need not fear walking the streets at night, they have access to medical care and transportation, there is free education for those who apply themselves. Yes, the Chinese must fear their government, but anyone who does not fear the US government is a fool. The world's war monger is the US, and the IRS is the world gestapo. In China people regularly debate their government;s value - the only prohibition is on mass demonstration. Anyone who watched what happened to the Wall Street protestors, and the poor sap who is facing terrorism charges for holding a sign in front of a bank (covered here yesterday) knows the US is not much different in that regard, not to mention our new love for torture, holding folks indefinitely without charge, secret prisons, etc. etc.
People can open businesses in China, as in the US, they can complain about their government at home, as in the US, and are punished if they demonstrate in public, like the US. Other than the fact that the China has not started a new war in a long long time, and the US goes to war annually, and that the streets in Shanghai and Bejing are safe when compared to New York and Chicago, or any other major US city, there does not seem to be that big of a difference,
I very, very broadly agree except that education is only free for the first six years these days. Alas.
The ants create the ant colony, the ant colony doesn't create the ants.
Same with people, they create the government ant colony, the government ant colony doesn't create them.
Homo sapiens formicidae.
You folks are insulting the ants.
There will always be disparity and corruption in any system run by humans. That is why I look forward to the day when the world is run by robots and super computers. Life will be perfect then.
But until then, I will do my best not to depend on the system for my happiness and success.
MDB, do you do this sarcasm on tour?
Laugh Factory dates plz!
Um, China is a NeoFeudal-Communist state.
Which is why when reading this, if you replace "young Chinese workers" with "young US Workers" - everything sounds familiar.
I've said before that China looks like the U S on a very compressed time line. They've squeezed 200 years of history into a couple of decades. Just keep an eye on China for the future of the U S. They'll reach the zenith and suffer the fall first.
China has nearly the same land area with 4 times the population of the U S. They actually occupy much less of the total land area than the U S population does so they are crammed into a much smaller geographic area. It's inevitable.
And the US of the future looks just like China.
Funny how that works.
The article mentions “skyrocketing housing costs”. That was a year or two ago. Now many tell us that the real estate bubble in China has begun to implode, which will greatly benefit the intelligent and hard-working members of the ant tribe.
Yes there were problems under Mao. That's why he murdered at least 65 million people. That's how he got rid of his 'problems'.
The British wars for drugs, aka "Opium Wars" killed most of 90 million.
The difference is that the west killed to destroy a country; Mao killed to build one.
And China was free of drug addiction by 1953.
Mao didn't kill millions. Communism did.
British didn't...East India Company (or capitalism) did for profit.
Facism didn't kill...Hitler did.
Hell I am in...senile old fool.
Better not remembering too much...
Quite true Million Dollar Bonus! Under the great laeader Mao, every Chinese, incliding political prisoners had what was called "The Iron Rice Bowl". A bowl of rice that could never be broken by capitalist takers.
Now every Chinese must try and find paying work or start a profit making business in order to get their own "iron rice bowl". They struggle to get their rice and things like good health care go only to those with money.
America has been built on this self reliance, no Iron Rice Bowls here in America. Execept in Black neighborhoods, where American welfare has trapped most black people in an Iron Rice bowl dependency. Mr. Romney will break this cycle of Iron Rice Bowls and force blacks out into the world of work and business.
In the US? The US has been a story of affirmative action programs since the beginning.
Negroes were late comers.
Indo Europeans have been having massive handing outs from the US government from the beginning, free land and all...
In China? The Glorious Middle Kingdom has been a story of affirmative roadside rectal action programs since the beginning.
Toilet flushers were late comers.
Chinese Citizenism citizens have been having massive pooping outs with the blessings of the authoritarian, Tibetan blobbing-up Chinese government from the beginning, free roadsides and all...
ConfuSius says: "He who eats from bowl will depend on who gives the bowl".
Cool....except the facts always seen to get in the way. More total whites on welfare than blacks. Will their Iron Rice Bowls cycle be broken, too?
....and about that "world of work & business" of which you speak, are real jobs available there, or only unpaid internships?
Or, maybe I am reading you wrong, and you are in your own world of competition --- with MDB.
Rats! Here I am aligned with Mr. Anon. I better sign off and get to work on my American Citizenism. Must be slipping.
Oh please get real.
As a Black Brooklyn sex worker once told me in the late 1960s when you (White) could land a job the same day you started looking: "We're the last people hired and the first ones fired."
Take away the food stamps and other benefits of the poor and the result is riots.
Those benefits are nothing but insurance premiums that a government pays out to prevent revolt.
I guess you have no idea how people under Mao actually lived. I do not perceive the documetary as tragic at all. Every society has its elite and the most important thing is not to envy or think how to redistribute the wealth but how to succeed using your own abilities. To the extent the society is meritocracy and allows the vertical movement of people based on their ability to add value, there is nothing to complain about. It is simply not going to be better than that. Chinese society provides a significant economic freedom to their members (in particular, to go study abroad to greener postures) and there is no comparison with the Marxist past.
What many libertarians do not understand is that there are millions of people who are not capable to add value. What is happening with these people depends on what a given society can afford to sustain them. In America their fate is better than in China for now. But it can change in the future. The Chinese society is dynamic and productive enough to provide a sustainable economic growth. And beleive me it is much better situation than dreams of some posters over here how to redistribute other people money to increase ones own hand outs.
Libertarians understand that quite well, which is why they do not advocate the government sustaining those people. Government sustenance is the republican and democrat answer, not libertarian- they are quite content to let them fail.
What is your proposal? To kill them all?
Get rid of government.
Government raises the cost of living and destroys the ability to work, making people dependent on it.
As the late Harry Browne used to say: Government breaks your leg, then offers itself to you as a crutch.
Look, government is in business for itself. That said, it does provide a minimum of amenities like secure borders, firefighters, roads & signage and the rest.
You can argue for anarchy, which is NOT the absence of government but a system where you award the power to make decisions as close as possible to the victims of your decisions. The US principle of "states' rights" goes in that direction.
The trouble with that however is that the trend into greater centralization is unavoidable, if only because we live in an economic system that is very very skilful at concentrating wealth, whose holders have no reason not to multiply their wealth even further by exploiting the powers inherent to that concentration.
I blame it on Bjourne Stroustroup and his infernal "object-oriented" language...
One big thingie that Mao did for his people was to cancel the debts of the peasants, who were in no position to question the calculations of principal & interest presented by their landlords. The peasants got full usufruct to parcels of land that at least guaranteed them debt-free subsistence.
This was unprecedented.
True, it wasn't instant and true, Mao had to do deals with local warlords (or, more properly: ethnarchs) in order to avoid the sort of postwar internecine warfare we're seeing in post-Gaddafi Libya today, but he did lay the foundations of China's current resurgence as a key player in world politics and its economy.
@MillionDollarBonus: "Sure, under Mao there were problems"
"Problems." Yeah, I guess that's one way you could describe the tens of millions of dead resulting from the "Great Leap Forward" and other programs. It is somewhat "problematic" when one's metabolic processes are ceased by some government stooge.
"but at least they had equality."
Yeah, the party leaders were exactly equal to the commissars, who were equal to the party members, who were equal to the peasants. I doubt the peasants would see it quite the same. Certainly the millions of dead would probably not think that they were equal with their killers. Equal with the other dead, sure, but equal to the people who made them dead.
jesus it's almost 2013 and there is still people thinking about communism and equality?
what equality is when the elite do whatever they want and every1 else is poor and struggling to survive?
Ar-Pharazon, Ideas never die, they just go in and out of fashion. And while we're on Jesus, there's the story about how God was wanting to take a few days off and wondering where to spend them, so some archangel suggested Earth but He just shook His head and said: "Nah, I had this one-night stand with a Jewess there 2,000 years ago and they're still talking about it."
poor gooks, but they only have themselves to blame (just like the rest of us).
I sincerely hope so, Shemp, because I look forward to watching you and akak put the smackdown on his Chinese Citizen Citizenism ass. I'd do it myself but I can't even understand his rhetoric most times. ;)
Or as they say here in the south: the rich get richer, the po' gets more chilren.
lets codify our terms tho, upper class = council of 300; the 0.05%
and moreover its their Culture not them ... we could take out the capstone tomorrow and assholes, waiting in the wings below them would merely rise as the entire thing ratchets up one notch
we need an information cultural revolution that produces a noble culture that understands the price of liberty is eternal vigilance
"But there, too, they are frustrated, as they discover that good diplomas - and even ability - do not open doors. Local networks and family background do."
This is also cultural. It just so happens that in China, it is not as much what you know (unless you're a foreigner with a sophisticated skillset), it is WHO you know. This is true to a lesser degree in the west, except in the government sector, where it dominates.
"the strong permanently strong and the weak permanently weak"
How the fuck you gonna fix that without going all Harrison Bergeron?
In all honesty most poor people deserve to be poor. They are incapable of thinking themselves out of the box.
Some examples of what I speak
https://www.npr.org/2009/07/27/111091624/homeless-man-leaves-behind-surp...
Homeless Man Leaves Behind Surprise: $4 Millionhttp://yourlibrarycsu.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-library-made-homeless-man...
Curt Degerman was a common sight around his Swedish town. He was often seen riding his bike or foraging through garbage cans, collecting bottles and cans to be recycled. When he passed away in 2008 at the age of 60, most thought that he had left nothing of any value behind.
When it came time to sort through Curt's estate though, it was discovered that he had earned a fortune totaling nearly $ 1.4 million, leaving it all to a cousin who was kind enough to visit him occasionally in the years before his death.
Curt Degerman made his investments after a life time spent studying Swedish newspapers. He was a frequent visitor to the town's public library because he wouldn't buy newspapers, so instead he utilised the free resources at the library and poured over the financial columns. From doing this he became an expert on the stock market, investing the modest sum he earned from recycling in stocks and mutual funds, valued at close to a million dollars.
I had an uncle like that. When he got out of the Army after WW II he started buying farms in Southeast Missouri (about 45-miles south-west of Cape Girardeau). He would lease the farms and buy more when he could. He worked for a company that broke the union during a strike and moved it's operations overseas. Ne never went back to work.
He always wore bib overalls and drove an old Chevrolet. He looked like he was just a dirt poor farmer. He never went anywhere. He never took his wife anywhere she wanted to go. He just would not spend money. He was essentially a hoarder.
But, when he and his wife had to go into a nursing home my aunt (the executor of his estate) found that he had over $1 million stashed in little banks all over that part of Missouri. All of that money went to pay nursing home costs for him and his wife.
What a wasted life. Two wasted lives actually.
damn, should have shipped his ass to an enconmy model nursing home in Botswana and then hit Vegas with all the money left over.
Your uncle sounds like he was a child who grew up very poor and/or was impacted by the Depression, hence the penchant for savings. By the way, who the hell are you to judge his life and his choices? Your post sounds more like sour grapes that he didn't leave anything to family members in his will. Nobody's perfect, and there are probably decisions that he would change had he had the opportunity for a do-over. Who doesn't? If he was a child impacted by the Depression, why would you place all the blame at his feet and not ascribe any to dumbass bureaucrats and central bankers who made a bad situation worse and extended the misery of a nation for years and years? Or is that too small a thing to impact a person's behavior and financial decisions for the rest of his life?
He sounds a lot like my father. All in all, for all his flaws, it sounds like he had more freedom than most and was at least responsible for himself and his wife. He doesn't sound like the kind of person who looked to other people to take care of him and his family. A perfect life? Probably not. A responsible life. Yes!
when my dad died he left my mom a shitload of money by retiring early at 60 and getting 150% of his regular pension for 25 years by waiving spousal rights after his death. this was not a moral decision. he just didnt trust the bastards to be around in 20 year. he wanted his money at the highest rate possible.
What? Your uncle saved enough to pay for himself and his wife in their old age (I assume they were childless from your post). What is the problem? Are you advocating that they should have blown it all on useless "stuff" and sucked off of everyone else to pay for them?
i dont think his life was wasted.
HE PRODUCED WEALTH.
what are you producing? nothing?
The class war is over.........the upper class won.
__________________________
Nope. Chinese upper class is a servant to 'American' middle class. They all owe their welfare to corporations that are creatures of middle class societies (which 'American' societies are)
'American' middle class made the Chinese upper class.
Trouble for american 'middle class ' is different:while they rule supreme in 'Americanism', planet Earth can simply no longer support an 'American' middle class, its ever increasing expectations and the ever increasing consumption coming up with.
AnAnonymous bleated:
Nope. As is your habit, you're wrong again. The original comment to which you responded was correct:
The upper class in China wins? When they are elegible for trial and can be sentenced to death?
Upper class in China owes its welfare to 'American' middle class.
It is an 'American' world and in 'Americanism', the upper class is a servant to the middle class...
The middle class is the King class. The one that does the consumption the chinese upper class is looking for in order to foster concentration of wealth to them.
Without the 'american' middle class around the world, the wealth would be much less concentrated and not consumed yet...
AnAnonymous, pavlovian in the predictability of his responses, said:
25 minutes.
An action calls a reaction.
When 'Americans' dismiss that the middle class is the king class in Americanism, one reaction can be to repeat that middle class is king class in 'Americanism'
Nevertheless, what is good with facts, while 'Americans' can claim that the middle class is not the king class, well, the reaction is reality driven: claiming it is not wont change the fact the middle class is.
'Americans' are hitting the walls of reality...
An action calls a reaction.
When Chinese Citizensim citizens dismiss that their roadside-shitting ass is the king class in Chinese Citizenism, one reaction can be to repeat (and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat, and repeat) that middle class is king class in so-called 'Americanism'
Nevertheless, what is good are facts: while Chinese Citizenism citizens can claim that their ass is not the king class, well, the inevitable roadside-shitting reaction is reality driven; claiming it is not wont change the fact their roadsides are filling up with human waste.
Chinese Citizenism citizens are now shitting on the walls; oh the humanity ...
[The Chinese] people are discovering that society's resources and opportunities are increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few.
Sounds familiar. Hmmmmm.
It was won before you were born........
we are all chinese now and when the CHN middle class hits the same phenom curve as we did in the 80's they will rediscover the water margin et al and their own taste for true revolution will come to the fore
the beauty is as a NWO laboratory in this era, the buildup/crush cycle is much shorter and thus will have a much greater impact, especially considering the gross quanta (population.ideas)
But the Chinese are not all 'American'.
Especially the upper class that can be tried and sentenced to death.
Neither is the police that can be tried and sent to jail.
Right now, most of these chinese guys must wish they live in an 'American' country...
AnAnonymous, feeling a little nervous now, said:
...or their paid lackeys at the Peoples Ministry of Truth. I'm sure you know all about them.
But you said China is an 'American' country, according to your ever-changing theories of US citizenism.
Never stated that China is an 'American' country...
Always stated that 'Americanism' is spreading in China and that 'Americanism' will take over ultimately in China.
Propaganda job. Cant cope with reality so 'Americans' have to invent.
Propaganda job.
Can't cope with the reality of living under their totalitarian, centrally-planned, dehumanized Chinese regime so Chinese Citizenism trolls have to invent --- and project their own failings onto others, via slapping the label of so-called "citizenism" onto entire nations of people in a giant collectivistic blame-fest.
Propaganda job.
For AnAnonymous, it pays the hovel rent.
Um, yes: I don't remember ever hearing of any American millionaire on death row.
Um, yes: I don't remember ever hearing of any American millionaire on death row.
And they won't wait until they get a job to start eating.
Release the Virus
Did you hear that, AnAnon? They Know. They're plotting as you read this. Soon, they'll be coming for you, o slavering puppet of the overseers.
I told you and I told you. You cannot fuck with bluejeans and rock n roll. Their message is inexorciable.
Look at you now. LOOK AT YOU NOW!
'Americanism' is coming to China...
The 'Americans' in China want to sell the idea that hard work is what made the 'Americans' rich.
They only forgot to include the massive theft venture 'Americans' have been operating since 1776, July, 4th...
Theft is how you build a middle class the 'American' way.
Hard to find Indians these days...
AnAnonymous said:
Sleep well, Peoples Ministry of Truth propagandist. The ants will be coming for you at night.
Many times? Newsflash then: many times in the mouth of an 'american' means zero times...
How you learn to speak engrish so good? Maybe at this site?
http://www.engrish.com/
Confucius say smart young man like you soon move out from basement of mamasan's whorehouse. So smart!
So good? Good how? Through your centralized conception of English?
No, through your centralized, all-encompassing nonsensical blatherings about "US Citizenism", which exists only in your autistic and retarded, bigoted and hate-filled mind.
Make me laugh!
AnAn, read this and get a clue (http://xanalyser.blogspot.com/). 8 years old and better english than you.
"You have a kind of sick desperation in your laugh."
And you have the gall to label someone other than yourself 'bigoted'?
Now that makes me laugh, heartily but sardonically.
"Now that makes me laugh, heartily but sardonically"
What? WHO COMMUNICATES LIKE THAT in a website comments section? Idiot, you don't simply transpose words or phrases out of literature next to your bedstand and use them in a financial forum. Let me communicate this to you in regular english - you sound like a FREAKING DOOFUS.
thanks for your freaking rad opinion. I'll keep it in mind the next time I feel like using totally tubular all-caps, or awesomely righteous words like 'doofus' and 'dude'.
RE: [nothing which hasn't been thoroughly refuted many times]
You got (n) thumbs up for that 'rebuttal'? AnAnon's comment hit a little close to home did it? Truth can pinch a bit, hey?
Maybe you and your fluffer are right about AnAnon's nationality, perhaps even his/her motivation, but I suggest that if you wish to troll him/her you at least take the time to read the comment before blurting out your stereotypical inanities; because there at least AnAnon wasn't offering 'propaschmee-shcmee', just well documented historical fact.
OTOH if you are so thoroughly indoctrinated that you feel a pressing need to attempt defending the indefensible, I'll gladly go toe2toe with you on the subject; seeing as you see it as so 'readily refuted' or whatever.
Aaaaahnd GO!
how about you and Anon go have supper and catch a show tonight? If there's enough time in between, you could even go shop for draperies, too.
Aww, you don't like facts either; one of many who prefer to exist in the wretched stinking miasma of the myth. What a shame.
The raging statist bastard GoinNowhere, true to form.
Go kill yourself already, and do everyone, including yourself, a favor.
Hahaha! Fluffer right on cue! Hypocrite statists label others as 'statist' while stating statements that they deem stately in spite of their inherent level of statism, which they then must deny, or misstate.
I hope you become self aware enough one day to perceive your own hypocrisy, and this knowledge somehow tortures you into sanity.
Your contemptibly arrogant and ragingly elitist statist blather is as meaningless and easily dismissed as the nonsensical 'US Citizenism' ramblings of your Chinese troll buddy
Interesting you feel that way: I was mocking your 'style'.
I really don't waste my time actually trying to make any sense of the crap you post any longer --- doing so would be beneath me, not to mention being a total waste of time and effort. You, like your troll buddy above, have never had anything meaningful or intelligent to say, and I do not feel in danger of missing anything of significance in any of your posts (aside from arrogant snark and smug self-important pontificating) anytime soon.
"...aside from arrogant snark and smug self-important pontificating"
So. Rich.
I confess the snark, but you'll have to expect as much from those of us in the real world who are concerned more with facts than the fiction you constantly try to hang your hollow principles on (not to mention everyone elses'). It really is too bad that this is so confusing for you.
Speaking of 'wasting my time':
@fourthstoogey, I'm still waiting for your 'hugs and peacepipes' rendition of American History. You know, the one you claimed with such gusto so readily refuted AnAnon's allegation regarding 'theft'... do you always let your fluffers speak for you? Or did you call them in for that very purpose?
Hey akak, you're right. These guys, or this guy posting under fake id's writes like he's out of country. He has an weird, insipid word selection and sentence structure style. Kind of viet congish. Of course, he'll call me a bigot now. lol
why, are you one?
Dude, you have to be, quite literally, the biggest retard i have ever come across in all the history of internet forums.
What I really have to wonder is, who are the consistent four or five retards who keep UPvoting the trollish and nonsensical posts of AnAnonymous? How could ANYONE (aside from equally trollish GoinNowhere) give that bastard an up-vote?
Proxies maybe, with 5 different ZH accounts? Nobody else on earth would thumb up their drivel, unless ZH is now overrun by droves of imbeciles. I can picture em waving their arms like windmills firing off doofus comment after doofus comment, and switching accounts like maniacs.
... and folks if you take the time to observe this thread, you can see how the circle of jerk is once again completed...
I believe the echochambermaidens are getting around to the fast and short strokes now; anyone squeamish should leave the forum...
GoinFawr, troll fellator, said:
I've tried that in the past, and even tried to engage him in civil discussion. It was a waste of time, because he is here to defecate, not participate.
Your glossolalia notwithstanding, the things that AnAnonymous offers as 'documented historical fact' usually have as much substance to them as the morning fog. He occasionally veers into the truth, briefly. He then twists it around and rewrites it to suit his needs of the moment, reversing cause and effect, effecting temporal displacement, and creating an ever changing fictitious world as the foundation for his screeds.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Hard work making people rich? Some people get rich through hard work, and many don't. Some people get rich through theft and fraud, and some go to jail for it. The sun rises in the east, too, and night follows day. Yeah, that's some bigtime indoctrination going on there, because I sure don't see how any of that is even controversial, much less "indefensible".
Or are you referring to his pathetic tactic of exploiting what was done to American Indians in an effort to legitimize his kookery du jour? If so, you really need to climb down from your sanctimonious high horse.
I know all about the slaughters, the lies, the endless string of broken treaties, the trail of tears, the smallpox blankets, and the subhuman treatment that the American Indians had to endure at the hands of the US government. Some of my own ancestors had to live, and in some cases die, under those conditions.
I initially agreed with what AnAnonymous had to say on this, back when I thought he was trying to participate in discussion. However, it became clear that he didn't give a shit about what happened to the American Indians. He doesn't give a shit about what happened to American slaves, either. In fact, in his view, the descendents of those American Indians and American slaves are "US citizens", and thus share the guilt equally with those who owned slaves and those who wiped out the original American nations.
He only mentions those sad chapters in American history because he can exploit them for his "cause". You want to defend him on that, and yet you claim that I'm the one who is indoctrinated and defending the indefensible? Go crawl back under your rock, you contemptible worm.
Oh, so you weren't actually responding to the content of AnAnon's comment, just defecating on him as a matter of course; like the other echochambermaidens do. I see.
That hardly counts as an 'easy refutation' or whatever you're calling it, especially when you admit that you knew full well what you had written in response to AnAnon on the subject was false.
Sounds like troll work to me.
GoinFawr, boastfully displaying the decrepitude of his flaccid wit, said:
Actually, I was responding to the content of his comment. He has a well established habit of making rather general references to some of the most sad and shameful episodes in American history and then extrapolating these in a broad brushed manner to all Americans, past, present, and future.
In the words of AnAnonymous, present day Americans who are descended from American slaves of the 18th and 19th century are as guilty of every reprehensible action as the slaveholders who held their ancestors in captivity. According to AnAnonymous, present day full blooded American Indians are as guilty of murder and genocide as the federal troops that distributed smallpox blankets to their ancestors and drove them into reservations.
The duplicitous trickery which he employs on a regular basis, as described above, has indeed been thoroughly refuted. Perhaps you missed an earlier exchange when this happened, or perhaps you're just in the habit of labeling as false those things beyond the grasp of your comprehension. Whatever the case may be, I'm not going explain it to you in Special English or monosyllabic words. Any lack of understanding is a reflection on your shortcomings as a reader.
Your type is easy to spot. You believe that by getting in the last word, you've somehow won something. Rather than admit a mistake, you'll cling to it as if God himself presented it to you on stone tablets. Your primitive mentality places a higher value on getting in the last word than it does on being correct. Go ahead, get the last word in. It is my gift to you. Be a winner and prove me right.
And that is the truly duplicitous excuse you and the echochambermaidens shamelessly use to justify stalking AnAnon in order to defecate on every comment he/she makes, regardless of whether you happen to agree with it, and regardless of whether or not AnAn's post is even true (IE hasn't been 'repeatedly refuted by rebuttals of an iron-clad nature'). What trickery!
Brushing aside all of your frantic backpedalling and irrelevant attempts at character assassination, let's recap and see if we can isolate the real 'duplicitous trickery' here:
AnAnon initially wrote (paraphrased): The growth of America was more or less based on theft, genocide, and murder.
In response you replied (precisely):
AnAnonymous said:
Except that, as you have since been forced to admit, AnAnon's comment was something that hasn't been 'thoroughly refuted many times'.
I think I got something there...
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Monyhan
Well, you know, his claim HAS been refuted, but it happens to be true.
The refutation is the lie.
Acknowledging one's own faults is unpleasant for most. Being angry and hateful is more fun for a lotta folks.
'thoroughly' implies 'successfully'
While I certainly don't blame anyone for the anger, the blind hate is wasted effort.
Well said AnAnon.
Just remember:
"Next time you're found, with your chin on the ground
There's a lot to be learned, so look around
Just what makes that little old ant
Think he'll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, can't
Move a rubber tree plant
But he's got high hopes, he's got high hopes
Hes got high apple pie, in the sky hopes
So any time your gettin' low
'Stead of lettin' go
Just remember that ant;
Oops there goes another rubber tree plant
When troubles call, and your backs to the wall
There a lot to be learned, that wall could fall
Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he'd punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin' that dam
'Cause he had high hopes, he had high hopes
He had high apple pie, in the sky hopes
So any time your feelin' bad
'Stead of feelin' sad
Just remember that ram
Oops there goes a billion kilowatt dam
All problems just a toy balloon
They'll be bursted soon
They're just bound to go pop
Oops there goes another problem kerplop."
In 100BC, 'Americanism' was coming to Rome. In your view, China has always existed as the unified nation-state it is today? Quite successful propaganda I see. So, from whom did the dynastic Chinese emperors not steal in order to not build their empire? China had its "Indians" like every other empire in history, and they were crushed or swallowed like all the others. There are no more "Indians" so now the state turns against its own.
Chinese massive theft venture has been operating non-stop for at least 2000 years. In 1776, Chinesism is coming to America.
Do you get paid by the post?
Hey, maybe time to recall the 'American' song about the natural rights theory.
The natural rights theory is natural to human beings but was ignored until 1776, July, 4th.
It tells that anyone before the 'Americans' acted out of ignorance (that is why they were savages) while the 'Americans' acted knowingfully.
There is a difference between robbing while ignoring property is an unalienable human right and robbing while knowing property is an unalienable human right.
It is so true that in order to circumvent their knowledge, 'Americans' had to invent the fallacy that people they have been robbing from have been either sub human or non human beings.
But hey, 'Americanism' includes racism. Cant do without it.
And yet it is YOU, the epitome of dishonest, malicious, malevolent, totalitarian Chinese Citizenism, who has repeatedly showed your contempt for the "subhuman negroes", and it is only in China that all those of other nationalities are traditionally referred to as "foreign devils".
Once again, we see the Chinese dog-frying wok calling the kettle black.
I think the American Indians got robbed more than the African Americans did. The invading Europeans dispossessed them of the entire continent. Yet, the Native Americans are laughing last, as Granny gambles her grocery money through the slot machine each week and the US gubmint can't say jackshit about it. What goes around comes around, yes, even for us arrogant Americans, and yes, even for you arrogant Chinese Citizenism Citizens. America will experience horrific poverty and deprivations; it is inevitable, and we here at ZH recognize this fact. China too will have horrific poverty and deprivations, but you don't want to acknowledge that fact. You're in the same sort of sinking boat that we're in, the only difference being that your boat hit a bigger iceberg and is going down quicker. But sure, rearrange those deck chairs if it makes ya feel better.
Anybody know the Mandarin word for "sheep"?
Hard to find Carthaginians, ever since Rome dumped a big pile of salt there.Groups come and groups go. Seen any Visigoths lately?
Lots of Seminoles here in Florida, running casinos and selling cigarettes and such.
Fascinating, simply fascinating. Absolutely beside the point, but fascinating...do please tell us more about things that have little to do with the matter at hand...
<puts elbows on table, chin in hands, and shuffles to edge of seat>
What I don't find fascinating or shocking in the least, is that you would have so much in common with Agent AnAnus.
Eooooooooowwww. Called in the big guns did they? Hey everyone, Chief Echochambermaiden Alert! Do the salutey thingy! I am! Though I may be using the wrong digit; not quite sure...
Discredit by association, why that's a good one! GW or Cog Dis probably have a number for it... not very original; but the old tricks are the best ones, right nmewn?
Tell me again how wealth isn't power nmewn...ooer wait, I mean tell me once with a reason why, I could use a good lullaby.
I think you know full well that I just think that you and your weird sisters should all lay off ol' AnAnon when he/she tries to say something true in a language he/she is obviously not too familiar with; at least let him/her get to the nonsense before you commence with the snide echochamber crew.
(Don't worry, I am absolutely certain that that is asking too much from you and the resident 'tribe' of self-appointed thought police.)
Big guns? Your mouth is almost as large as your ego.
AnAnus has one purpose in posting here and one purpose only...he's not the least bit interested in learning what regular Americans think or feel, its pretty obvious. Its about division. I suspect you are very much the same.
Tell me again where you live?
Suspect away, with all of the wishful thinking you can muster.
You have yet to give me a decent reason why where I live is at all any of your business.
Wealth IS Power: just give me one reason why it isn't. Just one.
You see, I could tell you where I live; does your acute myopia allow you to perceive the big fucking difference there, phisherman?
Excellent...keep commenting from a-Fawr. ..lol.
You protect your identity (which is fine), but your country...that is "unusual" while ragging on my people and our country. I have more respect for falak (who I sometimes disagree with)...ORI, Sudden Debt etc. than I will ever have for you...because they are honest about who, what and where they are, for perspective.
You're not even a decent tease anymore...you're just a troll and will be treated as such by me...star night, star bright chump.
Seeya
His smug arrogance, kneejerk anti-Americanism (which alines him with AnAnonymous), flippant snarky attitude, love of socialism and big-government programs, and hypocritical sanctimoniousness positively screams that he is from Canadia. I suspect eastern Canadia, particularly Ottawa --- you know, a minion of the great Canadian federal government itself.
Canada or some other part of that dying blue blooded monarchy they planted on our soil...I was thinking Australia...they got some serious freaks of nature down there, Big Duke et al excluded.
Theres only going to be one way of purging these socialist pricks from power ultimately (including the little dingle berries like Goin Fawr hanging from AnAnus' butt)...we both know it deep down.
Great herb gardens down here buddy. As ever some people go a bit fawr...
:o
keep up the good work.
just answer the question that is not of a personal nature 'Claires'... and leave off the phishing while you are at it.
"You protect your identity, fine..."
Yeah, right. Unlike nmewn/AnAnon/akak et al I'm no jingoist, but like most people I consider at least part of my identity to be defined by where I live. I simply value my privacy more than y'all is all, and apparently they all can't respect differences of opinion like that where the stars at night are big and bright? I'll choose my own level of involvement, thanks.
Anyway, I've got money on my flank that says nmewn just wants to know where I live because he believes 'I know you are, but what am I' is a solid retort; and locked-in; refer to this thread for examples.
I'm not asking, looking, seeking or otherwise phishing for anyone's trust here. Anything I post: Look it up yourself. Go ahead. You want to show me up you're going to have to actually earn it.
"I Challenge!"-skekUng
"Theres only going to be one way of purging these socialist pricks from power ultimately (including the little dingle berries like Goin Fawr hanging from AnAnus' butt)...we both know it deep down."
Either you have the mind of a twelve year old or you are truly psychotic: you can't face up to the facts so now you're joining in the chorus and making veiled threats against my person? Either way: my condolences.
"Call yourself the moral majority? We call ourselves the people of the real world. Try to rub us out, but we're gonna survive: God must be dead, if you're alive." JBiafra
Give it up nmewn. It's as plain as the ass on your face that you have little idea what a contemporary 'socialist' really is. "In power" indeed; mb according to your back-assward-personally-signed-by-Ronald Reagan lexicon the current POTUS is a 'commie', but that just underlines your ignorance. To you a 'socialist/commie/lefty/hippie/statist' is anyone who doesn't subscribe specifically to your narrow, myopic, self-centred, and thoroughly refuted (by yours truly) hollow ideology. Is it really possible these days for anyone to be so pigheadedly obtuse as you are? Tell me it's wilful and disingenuous because I've laid it out for you many times yet it just doesn't seem to be sinking into that thick meatball balanced on top of your neck.
So as for your hinted at murderous 'final solution' or 'purging'.. who died and made you and your echochambermaidens judges and jury in perpetuity anyway? It's clear as an azure sky of deepest summer that if implemented to the fullest of your sickening desires, your (continued) genocidal fantasy will leave few alive but you and a handful of zealot loonies. And even then on principle you'll eventually cannibalize one another into extinction like a bunch of odonata nymphs in a jar. It follows directly from the quote of yourn above that 'Freedom' to you means 'freedom to think whatever nmewn tells you to think, or you're dead'. And that's the best you've got to offer for 'heaven on earth' in 2012? Thanks, but I'll pass on participating with you and your skeevy-hearted ilk as you repeat those hideous episodes of history.
You lunatic fringe may be back out of hiding these days, but we all know you're out there; can you feel the resistance? You're not gonna win this time; we won't let you kill the laughter!(h/t TCochrane)
Flush toiletry is still not coming to China...
The Chinese Citizenism citizens in China want to sell the idea that hard work is what made the Chinese Citizenism citizens' roadsides smell so rich.
They only forgot to include the massive roadside squatting venture Chinese Citizenism citizens have been operating since 243 BC, from reign of Great Psychopath Chin Shi Huang Di ...
Public colonic eliminationalizing is how you build a roadside the Chinese Citizenism way.
Hard to find flush toilets in China these days...
Should it occur, could the following be considered 'poetic justice':
Akak scarfs down one too many cartons of 'Freedom Fries' and contracts explosive diarrhea that hits while he's stuck in a traffic jam.
(?)
Or alternately: we discover that Akak's seemingly unending fascination with where the Chinese leave their poop and what they eat is really a direct result of a latent international coprophagic fantasy of his.-h/t A.Thrasher
(?)
Yep, the Smithsonian Institution published a report that estimated a native population of about 55 million when Columbus first arrived in the Americas. Now there are about 3 million left -- all thanx to about 200 years of continual eradication policy.
Like yikes, Germany was only out after racial purification for about 20 years out of many more centuries of its history.
o slavering puppet of the overseers
LOVE that line.
Actually I have little sympathy for people who refuse to stand up for themselves. Yes the rich rape and plunder. They do it because they can. But we can starve the beast if people are willing to sacrifice
"Actually I have little sympathy for people who refuse to stand up for themselves."
Encoded in this message is the assumption that people give a fuck about attaining your sympathy. You may want to reassess.
and you my friend can suck my dick
sacrifice what? Their lives?
Sacrifice the shit they buy with credit cards, sacrifice their comfort of banking of with JPM, sacrifice driving an older model car, sacrifice eating a piece of fruit instead of a bag of potato chips. A lot of people, probably on this forum still bank with the bail out queens, have Ipads, credit cards and all the bullshit that keeps the oppressors in control. Most people are not willing to make any sacrifice themselves so they feed the fucking lion that eats them.
True dat. Until the SNAP cards stop working or the grocery shelves are bare or gas is $12/ gal, sheep will sleep and the rich get richer
Hell, they probably have personal computers and internet connections!
Slackers!
The irony is lost on some morons. Some people think that by not participating in the financial side of the system they can win. I say the opposite, take out loans as large as you can and pay them off with credit cards. Max out every card and them claim bankruptcy. The way to kill the beast is to exploit it's weakness, which is more toxic debt. How else do you do that than to create more it?
The voting side is a different story, nothing you do there will effect the outcome, that is their strong suit, because that is where they intended to focus their control from. Convincing people to accept free things is easier for the government with all of the anti-business communists running around.
I bank with a credit union, don't own a cell phone or an iGadget of any sort, haven't used a credit card since 2004, buy cars with cash. Only some things we can't get around, like the fact that a TBTF processes our property taxes, a TBTF is the bank on my paycheck, etc. It's very difficult to disengage oneself in entirety from the vampire squid when the tentacles never cease finding new things to grab, ya know?
You do realize that buying into the system at a greater rate put's more stress on the system. It's collapsing because people were using it, not because people weren't using it. I'd rather see it collapse sooner than later.
Fact is the Chinese have already sacrificed immensely to get where they are now. The 20th century was brutal, especially to China. Convincing people to voluntary enslave themselves is really the only game in town.
Sacrifice their mortgages and other loan payments. The crass war is over, we all PIIGs now.
Except for The Boys From Brazil, SLC. That book was not to be taken as a business plan, but here we are. Gott mit uns, mein mormon arisch ubermenschen. Es ist Zeit, nehmen wir die EU und die United States auch! The banksters did it, then and now.
So, um, you stand up for the rapist?
Who then is the beast?
Chinese lower class getting screwed? I never saw THAT coming. Does Oprah know about this?
'Americanism' is classwarfare. In 'Americanism', the middle class uses the lower class as a stepping stone.
Too bad for the 'American' chinese, the chinese lower class is being stolen by US, Europe, Japan 'american' middle class, so they comfort their middle class way of life.
Indians are a scarce commodity these days. Way too many 'Americans', not enough Indians...
Chinese Citizenism is ass warfare. In Chinese Citizenism, the dog-munching middle class uses the roadsides as a public toilet.
Too bad for hygiene, the chinese lower class roadsides are being shit upon by the Chinese middle class, whose roadsides are being shat upon by the Chinese elite class (who is the king class), so they comfort their middle class way of life by chowing down on puppies, General Tso's kitten, endangered bear gall bladders, tiger penises and human fetus broth.
Tibetans are a scarce commodity these days. Way too many Chinese, not enough room for all the roadsides for toiletry, so ...
Don't get too broke up by the Indian stories going around...they were treated exactly how they treated each other.
Maybe you should concentrate more on Chinese Citizenism history.
I'll let the other half of the truth in that half-true comment go for now, and just focus on the fallacy:
I saw two people in a fist fight, so that absolutely justifies me blowing away with a shotgun them, their families and the entire set of very different cultures that they represent to me. At the very least it means I should be ok with someone else doing it as I reap the benefits.
nmewn brand logic: oh sure it's twisted and ultimately self-defeating, but the amoral majority can't get enough of it! (You should get that tm'd)
One way 'wealth isn't power', now, or you concede that your whole philosophy is pure unadulterated self-serving hypocritical bloviating. Silence counts....
<crickets>
<days later>...and speaks volumes. Thanks nmewn, I will be holding you to this capitulation in the future.
Ok, then send me some of your finest Chinese women and I will start making more "Indians" for your stupid ass. Will that make you feel better?
the Chinese never understood......activity does not always mean results
"The race is not to the swift,
nor the battle to the strong,
neither yet bread to the wise,
nor yet riches to men of understanding,
nor yet favor to men of skill;
but time and chance happeneth to them all."
Ecclesiastes 9:11
"You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
Marcus Cole, A Late Delivery from Avalon - Babylon 5
It's only a billion disgruntled employees. What could possibly go wrong?