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Subordinated European Bank Debt Face Broad Downgrades, Moodys

Tyler Durden's picture


Perhaps this helps explain the significant underperformance of European and US bank credit today as tonight we get the full downgrade watch treatment for all European bank subordinated debt. Moody's will review 87 banks in 15 countries with the view that average downgrades will be two notches for sub debt. The initial premise for the actions is the removal of government guarantees as they believe systemic support for subordinated debt is more uncertain. The greatest number of ratings to be reviewed are in Spain, Italy, Austria and France. The EURUSD is down around 20 pips on the news and ES 4-5pts.

The market (seen here with the spread between Sub and senior financials) has been pricing in some kind of notable differentiation between senior and sub debt for a while and perhaps this helps explain the modest reaction in EURUSD for now. The systemic bias is worrisome though and we wonder how ISDA will react to any credit events that impair sub debt and leave senior unaffected.

It is very noteworthy that there is a natural capital structure arbitrage between Senior and sub debt for the same entity (or entities). Given the zero floor on recovery and the identical probability of default (i.e. if sub debt triggers an event then senior must), then this leaves senior with an implied maximum recovery rate. As an example, the currrent ITRX SubFin trades 574bps and Senior trades 334bps, this implies (given the same implied default risk and some simple math) that if Senior Debt recovers more than 42%, then Sub debt will recover ZERO. Also of note is both the sub and senior index levels trade notably rich (tight) to their intrinsics (underlying value) - having rallied notably since early Friday - we suspect this will revert rapidly.

Moody's Full Statement:

Moody's reviews European banks' subordinated, junior and Tier 3 debt for downgrade
Review focuses on reassessment of government support assumptions
London, 29 November 2011 -- Moody's Investors Service has today placed on review for downgrade all subordinated, junior subordinated and Tier 3 debt ratings of banks in those European countries where the subordinated debt still incorporates some ratings uplift from Moody's assumptions of government support, with the potential complete removal of government support in these ratings. The review will affect 87 banks in 15 countries in Europe with average potential downgrades of subordinated debt by two notches and junior subordinated debt and Tier 3 debt by one notch. The greatest number of ratings to be reviewed are in Spain, Italy, Austria and France. For issuers whose ratings were already under review prior to today's rating action, the completion of the existing review will now incorporate these additional considerations for subordinated, Tier 3 and junior subordinated debt.


Today's rating announcements follow on from the removal of systemic support from subordinated debt in systems including Denmark, UK, Ireland, Germany and Moody's report "Moody's to re-assess government support in bank sub debt ratings globally" published February 2011.


The review has been caused by the rating agency's view that within Europe, systemic support for subordinated debt may no longer be sufficiently predictable or reliable to be a sound basis for incorporating uplift into Moody's ratings.


This concern is driven by (i) the more limited financial flexibility of many European sovereigns that will increasingly be required to make difficult decisions regarding fiscal consolidation policies; and (ii) the resolution frameworks being discussed by both national and supra-national authorities (for example by the European Commission, which is expected to announce its proposals shortly).


The frameworks have the common objective of reducing very significantly the support provided to creditors and leave subordinated debt holders particularly exposed to exclusion from any support received.


During the review period, Moody's will (i) review the outcome of the expected European Commission proposals on bank resolutions and the implications for burden-sharing with subordinated debtholders; and (ii) interact with regulators and authorities to see if there is any additional information that would lead Moody's to maintain an assumption of support in the subordinated debt ratings.




Moody's believes that systemic support for subordinated debt in Europe is becoming ever more unpredictable, due to a combination of anticipated changes in policy and financial constraints. Policy makers are increasingly unwilling and/or constrained in their support for all classes of creditors, in particular for subordinated debt holders. Moody's notes that there have been recent instances where losses have been imposed on subordinated debt holders without any significant contagion to other liability classes (e.g., in Ireland). Consequently, there would need to be very clear reasons for Moody's to consider retaining an assumption of support in subordinated debt ratings.


For some time, the policy debate and framework within Europe has been moving in favour of imposing losses on subordinated debt holders outside of an insolvency scenario. Proposals and legislative changes to permit this include statutory writedown mechanisms, or mechanisms which enable authorities to either transfer debt between institutions or split up a bank and impose losses on subordinated debtholders. Some countries have already changed their legal or regulatory frameworks to incorporate this policy objective (e.g. UK, Denmark, Germany). There have also been cases where an ostensibly supportive legal framework has been quickly changed to an unsupportive framework, following a weakening of the sovereign and banking system (e.g., in Ireland).


Moody's awaits the European Commission's proposed framework on resolution regimes -- originally anticipated this summer but now delayed -- which the rating agency believes is likely to result in an explicitly less supportive framework for subordinated debt across the EU. However, even if there is a further delay in the publication of the framework, Moody's considers the evidence that sovereigns can quickly change the existing legal framework as reason to continue with the review of systemic support in subordinated debt, given the other pressures on sovereigns in the current environment.


Many of the above concerns were already expressed in Moody's February 2011 publication "Supported Bank Debt Ratings at Risk of Downgrade Due to New Approaches to Bank Resolution". Since that publication, however, many euro-area sovereigns have become increasingly constrained in their financial flexibility and consequently in their ability to support their banking systems. In several cases, the sovereign has faced an increasingly stark trade-off between the need to preserve confidence in their banking systems and the need to protect their own balance sheets.


While the need to preserve confidence may imply some continuing (though potentially declining) support for senior debt -- given the potential for contagion across the banking system -- the rationale for continuing to assume the willingness and ability to provide support for subordinated debt holders is much weaker. Moody's has seen clear precedents that losses can be imposed on subordinated debt holders without any significant contagion to other liability classes. Moody's view is that these pressures go beyond the euro area to encompass all EU members; Moody's will also review to what extent other closely integrated markets outside the EU, such as Norway or Switzerland, are affected by this change in its support assumptions.



The banking systems and number of banks affected by the review are in the following countries: Austria (9), Belgium (3), Cyprus (2), Finland (3), France (7), Italy (17), Luxembourg (3), Netherlands (6), Norway (5), Poland (1), Portugal (2), Slovenia (2), Spain (21), Sweden (4),Switzerland (2). A list of affected institutions is here:


A full analysis of the effect of the review is set out in the Special Comment published today "Reassessment of Government Support Assumptions in European Bank Subordinated Debt". For the latest details on Moody's global approach to incorporating systemic support in Moody's bank debt ratings please see, "Status Report on Systemic Support Incorporated in Moody's Bank Debt Ratings Globally." Both reports were published today and can be found on .


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Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:28 | 1923503 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

Spin the bottle & kick the can -

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:57 | 1923594 Last_2_Sense
Last_2_Sense's picture

Excerpt: “From their position of power, as the financiers of governments, the banking elite have over time perfected their methods of control. Staying always behind the scenes, they pull the strings controlling the media, the political parties, the intelligence agencies, the stock markets, and the offices of government. And perhaps their greatest lever of power is their control over currencies. By means of their central-bank scam, they engineer boom and bust cycles, and they print money from nothing and then loan it at interest to governments. The power of the elite banking gang (the ‘banksters’) is both absolute and subtle … Capitalism is a vehicle that helped bring the banksters to absolute power, but they have no more loyalty to that system than they have to place, or to anything or anyone. As mentioned earlier, they think on a global scale, with nations and populations as pawns. They define what money is and they issue it, just like the banker in a game of Monopoly. They can also make up a new game with a new kind of money. They have long outgrown any need to rely on any particular economic system in order to maintain their power. Capitalism was handy in an era of rapid growth. For an era of non-growth, a different game is being prepared.”

Moore describes it well ~ “Just as the financial collapse was carefully managed, so was the post-collapse scenario, with its suicidal bailout programs. National budgets were already stretched; they certainly did not have reserves available to salvage the insolvent banks. Thus the bailout commitments amounted to nothing more than the taking on of astronomical new debts by governments. In order to service the bailout commitments, the money would need to be borrowed from the same financial system that was being bailed out!”

Moore explains ~ “It’s not that the banks were too big to fail, rather the banksters were too powerful to fail: they made politicians an offer they couldn’t refuse. In the USA, Congress was told that without bailouts there would be martial law the next morning. In Ireland, the Ministers were told there would be financial chaos and rioting in the streets. In fact, as Iceland demonstrated, the sensible way to deal with the insolvent banks was with an orderly process of receivership…The effect of the coerced bailouts was to transfer insolvency from the banks to the national treasuries. Banking debts were transformed into sovereign debts and budget deficits. Now, quite predictably, it is the nations that are seeking bailouts, and those bailouts come with conditions attached. Instead of the banks going into receivership, the nations are going into receivership.”

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923694 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Those bankers are some crafty bastards, I'll give 'em that. I wonder how crafty the bloodthirsty mobs will be when they get their hands on 'em?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:23 | 1923811 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

We need to get rid of all of the imaginary crap that the banksters conjured up out of thin air to create computer money and real bonuses (CDS, MBS, derivatives, ad nauseum). These financial inventions have about as much asset backed investment value as toe nail clippings.

Iceland proves that taking away the banksters fictitous toys results in the best outcome.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:33 | 1923836 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Last 2

shouldn't you at least post your source which, I believe, is here:

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:59 | 1924644 Sunset chaser
Sunset chaser's picture

I'm working on a new app for google translate to/from bankster language to help the common man better understand what's going on here.  Here's the first translation.

MSM report:  European banks are urging the ECB and other central banks to print money.


Google translate to bankster:  The souless entities we represent have nothing of value to offer in exchange for your national currency, so we expect you to give it to us for free.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:13 | 1923650 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

great way to support a stealth strong dollar policy. As long as this goes on US rates remain low. Japan here we come...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:29 | 1923700 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Moody's, "Blah blah blah........."

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:30 | 1923510 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Subordinated to whom?

Only GS matters.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923516 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Yada, yada, yada.  Europe is toast.

Old news.

Tell it to MDB, aka Wanger.

The Harry one.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:33 | 1923518 Wixard
Wixard's picture

It's silly how fast the market is burning through rumors. Without one its like trying to float rocks in the ocean. 


It was all solved yestarday though! We had a RALLY! Banks are fine. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923523 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Banks are fine.  Ours, that is.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:40 | 1923541 Wixard
Wixard's picture

Even though american banks have some exposure to europe, and surely the fed would print print print. It doesnt matter because we aren't dealing in a sane market anymore. 


The dominos fall from fear. Start the chain reaction and even the perfectly fine banks feel the heat because they get beaten down with the rest. 


We're in a global econ. and it all sinks or swims together. Even a hint of euro breakup caused chaos for our banks. Imagine what the real thing does. Not just to ours, but chinese/russian/indian etc. 



Of course the fed would dump as many dollars as it takes to keep our banks running no matter what. But what will happen before then is they'll hit rock freakin bottem. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:01 | 1923609 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dammit, our banks are fine.  OWS will make sure of it, one way or the other.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923520 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

So what is next?


More panicked investors will simply pile into U.S. Treasuries

And Tom Keene's voice will start getting squeakier

And Uncle Gorilla continues to get "free money"

And commodities will get dumped

And Ben will claim that "inflation expectations" are non-existent.

And more wild-eyed U.S. Consumers will pack the malls.

Did I miss anything?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:05 | 1923529 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Next is we get your address, and beat you to a bloody pulp, cuz no one knows where Bernankenstein lives.


Buy the long gorillas, I need an entry point for TMV.


Only Libs give TDs without response.  It's that 'emotional' thinghy.

Brain dead morons.  Like Zombies, but worse.  They can vote.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:20 | 1923668 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

" cuz no one knows where Bernankenstein lives."


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:45 | 1923732 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

K- Barrett can estimate ...

( grey pointed barrel plz )... :-P

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:16 | 1923796 JohnG
JohnG's picture



But you can shoot them:

Head shot matter, the rest is just fun!



Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:13 | 1923649 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

And BofA will be deconstructed and state and local governments will panic and funding crises will spread like wildfire. Other than that "spot on"!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:25 | 1923684 Wixard
Wixard's picture

Everything is whole again, im getting into some of that greek treasury action. While im at it, lets all pile into jpy!


Best black friday ever, new home sales up, debt is down, the economy is roaring like the 20s! 


China is booming too! Look at all the infrastructure they've built, surely it'll fill up eventually! 


IMF gonna do the bailout boogie, we have low inflation and unemployment is dropping. 


Ben bernake is an economic GENIUS. The einstein of our times. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:57 | 1923759 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

Yes, you missed something. After the collapse of the Euro, US treasuries and the dollar will be a safe haven for about three weeks, and then people will start to realize that they are all standing on an ice flow -- paper currency with nothing to back it. People will start piling out of the dollar and into gold and silver, and the economy as we know it will collapse. All paper currencies will become worthless, which will make it impossible for the sheeple to pay their debts. Then the World Bank and the IMF will introduce PM-backed SDRs as the new world currency. At that point, the cabal will control all of the world's assets, and they will control the only currency that can be used to pay the debts against those assets. They will be the Lords over a new world-wide feudal system.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:11 | 1923786 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Only if you accept the new currency, just say no and fuck off on your new bicycles with friends and family,  to regions unknown, or sell out for convenience, as is the norm.

Death or Glory.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:19 | 1924190 FlyPaper
FlyPaper's picture

The US will be the only, still biggest, game in town.   China: will be flat on its ass with huge domestic problems as will everyone else.

There won't be an international currency - except to transaction in - and likely partly gold backed.  Why are the Russians and Chinese are buying gold hand over fist?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:37 | 1923532 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

who's the broad doing these downgrades?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:38 | 1923533 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

and things will come to a panic stricken state where the markets begin to collapse and then they rally.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:38 | 1923534 SHEEPFUKKER

These rating agencies sure are busy doing nothing.  Sounds about the same as '08. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:40 | 1923540 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

My stupid brain thinks that Europe will finally come to a solution that at least sounds substantial enough to get them off the front pages, maybe even strengthens the euro. If that were to happen who would be up next, Japan or the US?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:43 | 1923546 Wixard
Wixard's picture

I think its chinas and japans turn. I dont think we get our turn till 2013 or late 2012

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:46 | 1923559 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

Could you imagine if the ten year blows out to 5% from 2% in a week. The total shit show that would break out all over the markets? Never would happen right? The rates would stay the same but the fed's balance sheet would just blow up and you would hear rumors about countries dumping treasuries?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:15 | 1923654 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

me thinks you'll see that play out soon enough.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:51 | 1923573 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Stupid covers it.  There is no solution to years of BS promises.

Just take care, personally, of your aged.  Set an example.

Don't need no stupid goobermint!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:08 | 1923631 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

There is no solution to years of BS promises.....I guess thats the bottom line.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:07 | 1923627 walküre
walküre's picture

I'm German FIRST, European SECOND.

There is NO solution.

If you consider a short term fix that will put a bandaid on the malaise for a few years before we're seeing another war between people of different national orgin.. then perhaps, one could call that solution.

Germans hate bailouts. They hated paying for the East when Germany reunited. The North hated supporting the South until recently and now the South (of Germany) hates bailing out the Northern parts of Germany.

To get Germans to accept that even one penny of their paycheque goes to support public services, health care, infrastructure or whatever in Greece, or Italy or Spain WHEN AT THE SAME TIME their own people are getting laid off or have too little to retire, THEN those Germans will take it to the streets and they will revolt.

Been there, done that. It won't happen. Merkel knows it and despite the cultural differences, I believe Sarkozy is finally getting it.

Germans are incredibly stubborn.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:17 | 1923657 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

dust off the Panzers, Valkarie. Let's roll.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:17 | 1923659 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

"If you consider a short term fix that will put a bandaid on the malaise for a few years before we're seeing another war between people of different national orgin.. then perhaps, one could call that solution."

That is exactly what I am saying. If that were to happen who would be the next domino? Thats all I was asking

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:51 | 1923542 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

They'll jack the shit out of the ES at roundabout 3 am. 

XLF down a full 1/3 of a percent AH.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:20 | 1923802 JohnG
JohnG's picture



I must agree....the smoke is being lit as I write.  Just turn on the fans.

Total complete farce.  It's getting comical at this point.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:42 | 1923543 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I'm feeling stressed.  Don't mess with me.

My name is BAC.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:57 | 1924009 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Don't worry BAC, soon the naked shorting won't be allowed. The market will then sing you a gentle lullaby.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:46 | 1923558 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

without a doubt JP Morgan has had its eye on Europe for some time as its main growth market for both future lending and profits given both the very high savings rates for Europeans in general and the fact that European retail banking operations are pretty weak relative to the USA. Such a totally preventable meltdown of the entirety of the EU does more than just put a damper on that plan. Moreover given that Goldman Sachs is Germany's second largest bank and i think we have all the makings of a "coup de grace" of a significant chunk of Wall Street itself with dangerous consequences for continued financing of municipal debt at exceedingly low interest rates. Since the Fed has hammered interest rates to near zero offering savings itself in the USA little to no reward and given the stealth inflation we've had for some time and obviously any blow up in equities can lead to some pretty hairy financial conditions throughout various state and local governments. since the USA has obscenely militant public sector labor unions but no private unions to speak of anymore the conditions are darn near perfect for a mass credit event of Europe immediately impacting significant chunks of the good 'ol USA. throw in a bombing campaign with Pakistan and, just makes me think of song as usual:

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:54 | 1923586 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Nice punctuation, ie, your prose suks.  Try some paragraphs.  Just constructive criticism, I hope.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:12 | 1923646 kito
kito's picture

dont pick on disabled vets, and learn to spell........

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:16 | 1923655 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

paw prints on my keyboard. and in my puppy prose too.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:16 | 1923651 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

It's i.e., not ie.

Do you still fart around on MarketWatch?


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923691 Wixard
Wixard's picture

Market watch, home of the pump n dumps.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:23 | 1923810 JohnG
JohnG's picture

LOL!  Marketwatch (seen him there) Yahoo Finance for dummies...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:49 | 1923565 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Mini-plunge hits the magic air brakes.  Resume the non-stop mechanical grind up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:54 | 1923758 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Ropes and pitons, bitchez. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:53 | 1923584 navy62802
navy62802's picture

It's only a matter of time. The inevitable can be delayed, but it cannot be avoided. Stocks have not bottomed, and the crisis is not over.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:56 | 1923591 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

They are now kicking empty beaten up Natty ice beer cans down that road!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:42 | 1923728 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Well, as long as they're empty.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:58 | 1923592 mynhair
mynhair's picture

All is well.  There is no crisis.  Ignore those bonds behind the curtain, just buy everything in sight!

Buy it now, or it's gone!

Attention Walmart Shoppers!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:09 | 1923636 walküre
walküre's picture

The thought occurred to me, that this last Black Friday they actually put stocks on sale... LOL. It was supposed to be a new thing, you know.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:15 | 1923653 mynhair
mynhair's picture

over priced garbage....

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:10 | 1923634 mynhair
mynhair's picture

88 golf outings for 0, and some dip pulled him off the course today?

Bring back Bush!  You morons have no clue.....


Vote RP.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:18 | 1923662 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Vote for HamyWanger in 2012.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:17 | 1923658 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Is there a RP supporter out there that can expound on why they prefer 0?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923693 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Thought not.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:25 | 1923819 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Well....I am a scratch shot, so I will beat him to 19 (with at least 3 to spare).  Am I electable??

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:18 | 1923666 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

"The EURUSD is down around 20 pips on the news and ES 4-5pts"


I thought that the robots only trade on technicals.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:30 | 1923679 mynhair
mynhair's picture

It is technical.

Eur channel is 1.319 - 1.3823

ES is 1064 to 1264.

What is your problem?  Public edication?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923692 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this would be very important in a liquidation


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:35 | 1923705 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Thanks for the GTP reminder, RAT!

liquidate the seaweed on my ass.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:37 | 1923718 mynhair
mynhair's picture

It amazes me that those dweebs in SF did not have tacos to absorb that pepper spray.

Free seasonings!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:37 | 1923719 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"A list of affected institutions is here:"  For members only...

There's a lot of "Banca"s and "Banco"s in a partial list at the site but that's all I got. Anybody with more info?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:23 | 1923813 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

same story, here

i didn't join...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:40 | 1923720 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Clinton was compromised.

Fat lot of good that did.

Fuk Libs.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:41 | 1923726 Georgesblog
Georgesblog's picture

Some debt is less equal than other debt. There's another monkey wrench in the gears. Perhaps the news of the past few weeks wasn't even that good.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:50 | 1923733 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I feel so good.

I voted for Rue Paul, and all I got was 4 more years of ODipshit.

I feel so virtuous.

I will vote RP in the general, should he be the R nominee, but if he ain't, what will his dickheads do?

Time is up, and the orange juice can is not on my ballot.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:48 | 1923741 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

CRAMER: 'We Are In DEFCON 3, Two Stages Away From A Financial Collapse So Huge It's Hard To Get Your Mind Around'

This is like "They know nothing", version 2. Basically asking for more Fed sugar for banks

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:01 | 1923751 mynhair
mynhair's picture

So, buy Lehman's?  AIG?

Whose the next biggest loser, or did you puke by then?

You really need to get a life.   CNBS at 9pm?   Listen to some Schade, or something.

CNBS?  Really?  You are one sick fuk.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:28 | 1923821 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Cramer has no mind to get around anything.  He's a comedian now.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:31 | 1923827 JohnG
JohnG's picture



I aggravated him on MS till it became a flame shit.  Finally beat him over the head with simple math.  Gross v. Net, and bilaterral netting means jack shit.  LOL.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:00 | 1923765 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Quarterly rumors have become monthly, weekly, daily and soon hourly,

In things European, in rumors of war and revolution , catastrophic natural events from Solar flares to droughts and fires and Earthquakes.

In part we could rationally write much of it off as an increased access to information , courtesy of the internet.

Until you begin to look more closely, the pot is getting close to boiling,

you are not having  paranoid delusions, shit really is getting very weird.

If only their was a book about this stuff!

Labour pains , Birth pangs get closer together before the event.

Any Dad who watched humbly as the mother gave birth will know of what I speak and mothers will know so much more,

IT is almost here, whatever IT may be.

I would love to see a Euro rumor / fed rumor chart.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:03 | 1923771 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Minutes, dude, minutes.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:10 | 1923784 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I rem ember football. I hyper-extended my elbow.  I was 10!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:34 | 1923841 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Yer next on the socially inept list.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:10 | 1923785 mynhair
mynhair's picture

For Caviar Emptor, because he is so socially challenged:


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:14 | 1923791 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

To answer your question if RP is not the nominee I will go back to doing what I did the last time he was not the nominee. Not fucking care. As GC said if you vote you have no right to complain.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:18 | 1923799 mynhair
mynhair's picture

See below.  Have you no pride?

Or wealth.

Or children.

Or a life?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:22 | 1923809 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I have all four. You however seem to be running on empty. Hang in there. Besides he is a lefty. That changes everything.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:34 | 1923839 JohnG
JohnG's picture

So's my wife and that's good thing! :)

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:15 | 1923794 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Hey, look!  It's our Fearless Leader!  Leader of the Supposed Free World!

Vote RP to put this dick in for 4 more.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:21 | 1923804 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Caviar depends on me.

He hasn't figgurred out that bookmark thingy.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:25 | 1923817 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:27 | 1923820 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Somebody must have just floated another "rumor"

ES just popped up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:30 | 1923826 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Another Fwank fart.  Machts nicht.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:35 | 1923843 JohnG
JohnG's picture

By a fucking quarter?

Desperation is just pathetic...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:36 | 1923845 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

ES, What is that, an Elvis Sighting ?


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:29 | 1923824 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Caviar wishes he was in Chile

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:31 | 1923829 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:32 | 1923834 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Does SNOWBALL 777 , still exist?  Cartman? - Kenny?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:37 | 1923846 mynhair
mynhair's picture

By request from Yen Cross!

Give it up people!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:41 | 1923861 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Absorbing multiple requests - momentito

Enjoy this meantime

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:44 | 1923866 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:49 | 1923876 mynhair
mynhair's picture

More for Caviar,

you chicks should jump on him, he's cuter than what you have

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:54 | 1923889 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:57 | 1923897 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:11 | 1923924 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:18 | 1923937 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Fukking moron Libs don't know it is a dead thread

For them

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:24 | 1923949 mynhair
Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:41 | 1923975 mynhair
mynhair's picture

John, whom I know, discovered his Dad dead.  John is deaf.  Only Stevie answered.

Sad as shit, broke my heart.

That's what the song is about.

But you dicks are too worried about the Yen an shit.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:29 | 1924184 SAME AS IT EVER WAS

France's Fitch threatens to downgrade the U.S. in response to S&P possible downgrade in 2 years of France threatens that, that is a threat and Moody's threatens to not be threatened or it will threathen to downgrade the downgrade that was downgraded.

Fuck it, I give up!


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