Subordinated European Bank Debt Face Broad Downgrades, Moodys

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Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:28 | 1923503 HedgeAccordingly
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Spin the bottle & kick the can -

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:57 | 1923594 Last_2_Sense
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Excerpt: “From their position of power, as the financiers of governments, the banking elite have over time perfected their methods of control. Staying always behind the scenes, they pull the strings controlling the media, the political parties, the intelligence agencies, the stock markets, and the offices of government. And perhaps their greatest lever of power is their control over currencies. By means of their central-bank scam, they engineer boom and bust cycles, and they print money from nothing and then loan it at interest to governments. The power of the elite banking gang (the ‘banksters’) is both absolute and subtle … Capitalism is a vehicle that helped bring the banksters to absolute power, but they have no more loyalty to that system than they have to place, or to anything or anyone. As mentioned earlier, they think on a global scale, with nations and populations as pawns. They define what money is and they issue it, just like the banker in a game of Monopoly. They can also make up a new game with a new kind of money. They have long outgrown any need to rely on any particular economic system in order to maintain their power. Capitalism was handy in an era of rapid growth. For an era of non-growth, a different game is being prepared.”

Moore describes it well ~ “Just as the financial collapse was carefully managed, so was the post-collapse scenario, with its suicidal bailout programs. National budgets were already stretched; they certainly did not have reserves available to salvage the insolvent banks. Thus the bailout commitments amounted to nothing more than the taking on of astronomical new debts by governments. In order to service the bailout commitments, the money would need to be borrowed from the same financial system that was being bailed out!”

Moore explains ~ “It’s not that the banks were too big to fail, rather the banksters were too powerful to fail: they made politicians an offer they couldn’t refuse. In the USA, Congress was told that without bailouts there would be martial law the next morning. In Ireland, the Ministers were told there would be financial chaos and rioting in the streets. In fact, as Iceland demonstrated, the sensible way to deal with the insolvent banks was with an orderly process of receivership…The effect of the coerced bailouts was to transfer insolvency from the banks to the national treasuries. Banking debts were transformed into sovereign debts and budget deficits. Now, quite predictably, it is the nations that are seeking bailouts, and those bailouts come with conditions attached. Instead of the banks going into receivership, the nations are going into receivership.”

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923694 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Those bankers are some crafty bastards, I'll give 'em that. I wonder how crafty the bloodthirsty mobs will be when they get their hands on 'em?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:23 | 1923811 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

We need to get rid of all of the imaginary crap that the banksters conjured up out of thin air to create computer money and real bonuses (CDS, MBS, derivatives, ad nauseum). These financial inventions have about as much asset backed investment value as toe nail clippings.

Iceland proves that taking away the banksters fictitous toys results in the best outcome.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:33 | 1923836 macholatte
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Last 2

shouldn't you at least post your source which, I believe, is here:

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:59 | 1924644 Sunset chaser
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I'm working on a new app for google translate to/from bankster language to help the common man better understand what's going on here.  Here's the first translation.

MSM report:  European banks are urging the ECB and other central banks to print money.


Google translate to bankster:  The souless entities we represent have nothing of value to offer in exchange for your national currency, so we expect you to give it to us for free.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:13 | 1923650 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

great way to support a stealth strong dollar policy. As long as this goes on US rates remain low. Japan here we come...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:29 | 1923700 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Moody's, "Blah blah blah........."

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:30 | 1923510 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Subordinated to whom?

Only GS matters.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923516 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Yada, yada, yada.  Europe is toast.

Old news.

Tell it to MDB, aka Wanger.

The Harry one.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:33 | 1923518 Wixard
Wixard's picture

It's silly how fast the market is burning through rumors. Without one its like trying to float rocks in the ocean. 


It was all solved yestarday though! We had a RALLY! Banks are fine. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923523 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Banks are fine.  Ours, that is.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:40 | 1923541 Wixard
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Even though american banks have some exposure to europe, and surely the fed would print print print. It doesnt matter because we aren't dealing in a sane market anymore. 


The dominos fall from fear. Start the chain reaction and even the perfectly fine banks feel the heat because they get beaten down with the rest. 


We're in a global econ. and it all sinks or swims together. Even a hint of euro breakup caused chaos for our banks. Imagine what the real thing does. Not just to ours, but chinese/russian/indian etc. 



Of course the fed would dump as many dollars as it takes to keep our banks running no matter what. But what will happen before then is they'll hit rock freakin bottem. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:01 | 1923609 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dammit, our banks are fine.  OWS will make sure of it, one way or the other.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:34 | 1923520 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

So what is next?


More panicked investors will simply pile into U.S. Treasuries

And Tom Keene's voice will start getting squeakier

And Uncle Gorilla continues to get "free money"

And commodities will get dumped

And Ben will claim that "inflation expectations" are non-existent.

And more wild-eyed U.S. Consumers will pack the malls.

Did I miss anything?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:05 | 1923529 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Next is we get your address, and beat you to a bloody pulp, cuz no one knows where Bernankenstein lives.


Buy the long gorillas, I need an entry point for TMV.


Only Libs give TDs without response.  It's that 'emotional' thinghy.

Brain dead morons.  Like Zombies, but worse.  They can vote.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:20 | 1923668 YesWeKahn
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" cuz no one knows where Bernankenstein lives."


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:45 | 1923732 NoClueSneaker
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K- Barrett can estimate ...

( grey pointed barrel plz )... :-P

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:16 | 1923796 JohnG
JohnG's picture



But you can shoot them:

Head shot matter, the rest is just fun!



Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:13 | 1923649 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

And BofA will be deconstructed and state and local governments will panic and funding crises will spread like wildfire. Other than that "spot on"!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:25 | 1923684 Wixard
Wixard's picture

Everything is whole again, im getting into some of that greek treasury action. While im at it, lets all pile into jpy!


Best black friday ever, new home sales up, debt is down, the economy is roaring like the 20s! 


China is booming too! Look at all the infrastructure they've built, surely it'll fill up eventually! 


IMF gonna do the bailout boogie, we have low inflation and unemployment is dropping. 


Ben bernake is an economic GENIUS. The einstein of our times. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:57 | 1923759 LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

Yes, you missed something. After the collapse of the Euro, US treasuries and the dollar will be a safe haven for about three weeks, and then people will start to realize that they are all standing on an ice flow -- paper currency with nothing to back it. People will start piling out of the dollar and into gold and silver, and the economy as we know it will collapse. All paper currencies will become worthless, which will make it impossible for the sheeple to pay their debts. Then the World Bank and the IMF will introduce PM-backed SDRs as the new world currency. At that point, the cabal will control all of the world's assets, and they will control the only currency that can be used to pay the debts against those assets. They will be the Lords over a new world-wide feudal system.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:11 | 1923786 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Only if you accept the new currency, just say no and fuck off on your new bicycles with friends and family,  to regions unknown, or sell out for convenience, as is the norm.

Death or Glory.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:19 | 1924190 FlyPaper
FlyPaper's picture

The US will be the only, still biggest, game in town.   China: will be flat on its ass with huge domestic problems as will everyone else.

There won't be an international currency - except to transaction in - and likely partly gold backed.  Why are the Russians and Chinese are buying gold hand over fist?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:37 | 1923532 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

who's the broad doing these downgrades?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:38 | 1923533 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

and things will come to a panic stricken state where the markets begin to collapse and then they rally.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:38 | 1923534 SHEEPFUKKER

These rating agencies sure are busy doing nothing.  Sounds about the same as '08. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:40 | 1923540 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

My stupid brain thinks that Europe will finally come to a solution that at least sounds substantial enough to get them off the front pages, maybe even strengthens the euro. If that were to happen who would be up next, Japan or the US?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:43 | 1923546 Wixard
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I think its chinas and japans turn. I dont think we get our turn till 2013 or late 2012

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:46 | 1923559 fonzanoon
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Could you imagine if the ten year blows out to 5% from 2% in a week. The total shit show that would break out all over the markets? Never would happen right? The rates would stay the same but the fed's balance sheet would just blow up and you would hear rumors about countries dumping treasuries?

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:15 | 1923654 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

me thinks you'll see that play out soon enough.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:51 | 1923573 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Stupid covers it.  There is no solution to years of BS promises.

Just take care, personally, of your aged.  Set an example.

Don't need no stupid goobermint!

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:08 | 1923631 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

There is no solution to years of BS promises.....I guess thats the bottom line.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:07 | 1923627 walküre
walküre's picture

I'm German FIRST, European SECOND.

There is NO solution.

If you consider a short term fix that will put a bandaid on the malaise for a few years before we're seeing another war between people of different national orgin.. then perhaps, one could call that solution.

Germans hate bailouts. They hated paying for the East when Germany reunited. The North hated supporting the South until recently and now the South (of Germany) hates bailing out the Northern parts of Germany.

To get Germans to accept that even one penny of their paycheque goes to support public services, health care, infrastructure or whatever in Greece, or Italy or Spain WHEN AT THE SAME TIME their own people are getting laid off or have too little to retire, THEN those Germans will take it to the streets and they will revolt.

Been there, done that. It won't happen. Merkel knows it and despite the cultural differences, I believe Sarkozy is finally getting it.

Germans are incredibly stubborn.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:17 | 1923657 Deadpool
Deadpool's picture

dust off the Panzers, Valkarie. Let's roll.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:17 | 1923659 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

"If you consider a short term fix that will put a bandaid on the malaise for a few years before we're seeing another war between people of different national orgin.. then perhaps, one could call that solution."

That is exactly what I am saying. If that were to happen who would be the next domino? Thats all I was asking

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:51 | 1923542 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

They'll jack the shit out of the ES at roundabout 3 am. 

XLF down a full 1/3 of a percent AH.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:20 | 1923802 JohnG
JohnG's picture



I must agree....the smoke is being lit as I write.  Just turn on the fans.

Total complete farce.  It's getting comical at this point.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:42 | 1923543 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I'm feeling stressed.  Don't mess with me.

My name is BAC.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 23:57 | 1924009 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Don't worry BAC, soon the naked shorting won't be allowed. The market will then sing you a gentle lullaby.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:46 | 1923558 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

without a doubt JP Morgan has had its eye on Europe for some time as its main growth market for both future lending and profits given both the very high savings rates for Europeans in general and the fact that European retail banking operations are pretty weak relative to the USA. Such a totally preventable meltdown of the entirety of the EU does more than just put a damper on that plan. Moreover given that Goldman Sachs is Germany's second largest bank and i think we have all the makings of a "coup de grace" of a significant chunk of Wall Street itself with dangerous consequences for continued financing of municipal debt at exceedingly low interest rates. Since the Fed has hammered interest rates to near zero offering savings itself in the USA little to no reward and given the stealth inflation we've had for some time and obviously any blow up in equities can lead to some pretty hairy financial conditions throughout various state and local governments. since the USA has obscenely militant public sector labor unions but no private unions to speak of anymore the conditions are darn near perfect for a mass credit event of Europe immediately impacting significant chunks of the good 'ol USA. throw in a bombing campaign with Pakistan and, just makes me think of song as usual:

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:54 | 1923586 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Nice punctuation, ie, your prose suks.  Try some paragraphs.  Just constructive criticism, I hope.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:12 | 1923646 kito
kito's picture

dont pick on disabled vets, and learn to spell........

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:16 | 1923655 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

paw prints on my keyboard. and in my puppy prose too.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:16 | 1923651 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

It's i.e., not ie.

Do you still fart around on MarketWatch?


Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:28 | 1923691 Wixard
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Market watch, home of the pump n dumps.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 22:23 | 1923810 JohnG
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LOL!  Marketwatch (seen him there) Yahoo Finance for dummies...

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:49 | 1923565 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Mini-plunge hits the magic air brakes.  Resume the non-stop mechanical grind up.

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 21:54 | 1923758 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Ropes and pitons, bitchez. 

Mon, 11/28/2011 - 20:53 | 1923584 navy62802
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It's only a matter of time. The inevitable can be delayed, but it cannot be avoided. Stocks have not bottomed, and the crisis is not over.

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