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Summarizing The Global Balance Sheet's Negative Feedback Loop Of Debt

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Cohen Investment Strategies courtesy of Contrary Investing, submits:

The Dangerous Negative Feedback Loop

Global Balance Sheet Recessions

Global governments are carrying more debt than ever and raising question as to whether or not a second — and perhaps even more dangerous credit crisis — is inevitable. The clock is ticking and every second, the world takes on more debt. In 2001, global government debt totaled $18.2 trillion. Fast-forward a decade, and the figure now totals nearly $44 trillion, an increase of 140 percent (more than 9.0% a year). The chart below depicts the countries with the highest and lowest debt levels.

According to The Economist, global sovereign debt is forecasted to grow an additional 7% in 2012 reaching a historical high of $47 trillion. Measuring debt against gross domestic product (GDP), the global debt-to-GDP ratio at the end of 2010 reached approximately 80%. While the heaviest balance sheet offenders include troubled European countries like Italy, Greece and Portugal (See Figure 1 below), the United States isn’t far behind with $15 trillion in debt and a debt-to GDP ratio topping 100%. And tipping the scale at over 200% at the end of 2010 was Japan. The result of this rising debt means more government interference, a further slowdown in the already debilitated economic environment and the possibility of further citizen uprisings.

One of the problems with economic crises is that mainstream economists and financial advisors either don’t see them coming or simply won’t admit to them. That’s exactly what happened in the fall of 2008, when the financial crisis kicked off in the United States. Since that time, governments have continued to spend, all while production has slowed and unemployment has skyrocketed. As we enter the fourth year of the post-crisis environment, there is no sign of growth that is impressive enough to get us out of the negative feedback loop in which governments have continued to operate. A negative feedback loop takes hold when massive government debt loads, a weakening financial system and a slowing economy feed off each other, interrupted by Federal Reserve and other central bank reflationary attempts. As shown in the chart below, rising debts become unsustainable and trigger austerity measures designed to reduce spending and/or increase taxes or other revenue sources to try and reduce debt. In significantly depressed economies, the drag continues and a recession or even depression like conditions hit. The more production and employment falter, the more lending contracts, causing further harm to the economy, missed budgets and higher bond yields. The result is a downward spiral of business and financial activity and a banking crisis usually ensues. Under pressure to stimulate the market, the Federal Reserve and other central banks carryout band aid fixes by printing money and governments implement additional austerity measures which starts the vicious cycle of the feedback loop all over again.

Negative Feedback Loop

In the center of the feedback loop is what we call Euphoric Mania. This is when the Federal Reserve and central banks step in to help with their band-aids whether it’s printing money, lowering rates, coordinating central bank action, or expanding the balance sheet by trillions. But, like any high, the lift is temporary and doesn’t take hold. In no time at all, we are back to where we were at the top of the loop, because without sustainable economic growth, the band aids don’t solve the problem.

Roger Nightingale, well-known European economist and strategist at RDN Associates, believes a 2012 global recession is a 65 to 75 percent probability and that further deterioration into a lengthy depression is possible. So what does this mean in terms of a growth outlook? Nightingale offered this forecast:

“The peak rate of growth for the world's economy occurred more than 12 months ago. We are probably going into negative territory around spring of next year; it is not for certain, but that is the most likely scenario… should recession kick in; the global economy might be too weak to generate any GDP growth for years, or even decades. When the downturn ends, and when the upturn begins, will it be powerful enough to take us into some sort of growth again? Or are we going to find ourselves in a protracted depression-type scenario?"

The fix needs to come from a unified front, not just a single country or continent. When we look at the three global pillars of the world economy — the United States, Europe and China — sure, each has its own problems, but each one’s fiscal choices impact the globe as a whole. And really, it’s four pillars when we add the Federal Reserve. We are a four-legged intertwined economic and financial system that relies heavily on each other for banking resources, government debt issuance, investments and exports. The feedback loops are never ending. And when economic growth stalls, debt accumulation increases. Without taking tough, systemic and coordinated economic measures including fiscal consolidation and a commitment by governments to cut rising deficits and reduce what are, in some cases, dangerous levels of national indebtedness, a second crisis may indeed be inevitable. The world is trying to recover from the worst financial crisis in 70-years and is suffering from debts levels not seen in decades and the crisis continues to intensify. And, as the graph below shows, with the exception of Ireland, countries need just as much, if not more, financing to cover debts in 2011 compared to 2010. Nothing has changed.

Read the full analysis (pdf)

 

 

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Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:24 | 2009118 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

So are you saying we can not solve a too much debt problem with more debt?   

<img src="http://nukethefridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/16539.jpg">

This person is not a believer!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:39 | 2009134 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Let's be honest: In the end we will default, either by defaulting, or by hyperinflation, or by declaring economic or real war on our creditors. 

http://azizonomics.com/2011/10/18/default-the-argentinosaurus/

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:47 | 2009143 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"one way to solve the trade deficit is to invade all the trade surplus nations. this has the added advantage of creating the 'Civil War effect'...thus allowing for long term growth opportunities in the homeland."

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:12 | 2009364 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hah DV! Export death, import riches. Works well for some and not too well for others eh. See hwo Libya has fallen off the news, Now Syria, Regime Change, cries Billary, the great regime changer of our times. Where she goes, RC follows. 

The sword, the word... off with his/her/their heads....bomb them, slay them, liberate them...

As someone once said, I think: Give them liberty, give them death.

or some such.

ori

/fractal-animal-hypnotic/

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:28 | 2009378 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Ahhh ... those Pilgrims - who said amongst themselves ... Let's go create a country where buying is a required activity ...

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 17:55 | 2009522 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture
Stolen US Federal Reserve Intern training hidden video.

Level 1 - interview exam to get the job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezW0Y9yWLy0

 

Level 2 - intern project to fix the economy on the fly as they fall...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxk-6GEK6w

 

Level 3 - Greenspan's Oops...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOEFGMb_MOQ

 

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 19:20 | 2009593 trav7777
trav7777's picture

From the first chart, I can see that the whole world owes GREENLAND a lot of fucking money?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:43 | 2009397 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

From "mindware" to "mind war." Anything is possible now that that's the battlespace. Now excuse me...i'm going to shop for a new gaming computer. I'm looking at some..."Alienware."

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:47 | 2009472 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Dell XPS

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 18:38 | 2009560 AssFire
AssFire's picture

Money Power

• Ben Shalom Bernanke, (Chairman of the Federal Reserve) • Lloyd Blankfein, (CEO of Goldman Sachs) • Jamie Dimon (CEO of JP Morgan Chase) • Jacob Rothschild (Largest shareholder of the Federal Reserve.)

These people (Dimon’s parents were heirs of banking moguls from Smyrna) print the money (at interest) that the US military is dependent on for waging their ceaseless wars around the globe.

If Ron Paul is ever in a position to “End the Fed,” then that will LITERALLY be the “end” of Ron Paul. (It happened to Kennedy, McKinley, Garfield, Jackson [survived] and Lincoln.)

Legislative & Surveillance Power

• Senator Joseph Lieberman, (Chairs the Senate Committee for Homeland Security) • Michael Chertoff, neo-con buddy of Lieberman and former Head of Homeland Security) • Senator Carl Levin (Head of the Senate Armed Service Committee and sponsor of National Defense Authorization Act allowing “indefinite detention” of US citizens by the US military) Diane Feinstein (Chairs the Senate Committee on Intelligence.)

These people run our soon-to-be-filled FEMA camps, our Security State, our police forces, and our US Military — all of whom, Alex Jones cannot bring himself to NAME THEIR NAMES AND IDENTIFY.

Propaganda Power

• Sumner Redstone (CEO of CBS, born, Murray Rothstein) • Robert Iger (CEO of ABC) • Brian Roberts (CEO of NBC) • Edgar Bronfman, Jr (CEO of Time Warner/CNN.)

These people are the “presstitutes” — the propaganda masters who decide for whom the American sheeple can vote) — of whom, Paul Craig Roberts cannot bring himself to NAME THEIR NAMES.

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 19:37 | 2009600 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Fucking Jews.

Print money from nothing. Yeah, that was a good idea.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:44 | 2011286 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

The Rabbis view making wealth (AKA money) from nothing a form of alchemy, a Babylonian witchcraft of sorts.

It is important, though, to realize that promoting any act of violence against all Judaic people is the Rabbi's single greatest tool to insure the continued survival of this ancient Babylonian religious practice now known as "Judaism".

It is correct to despise and eliminate the teachings and the philosophies of the Talmud taught in Judaism.  It is always wrong to associate the above hatred of the philosophy to a hatred of the race of Judaics in general.  As I mention often, Jews take the brunt of the Rabbi's hatred as often as any other race: The Rabbis state Hitler did God's work to the Jews who turned against the Rabbis.

Jews need to be liberated from the Rabbis as much as goyim.  

Besides, Bush and Obama committed mass murder for the Rabbis and their causes.  They act for the Rabbis, but they are not formally members of Judaism.     

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:49 | 2011294 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

What?  You don't like Michael Chertoff?

MC is a dual-citizen (Israel) and member of the most brutal, racist, blood-thirsty branch of Orthodox Judaism, Chabad Lubavitch.

 MC was US attorney while US Congressman James Trafficant (R-OH) spoke out publicly against US-Israel policy.  James Trafficant agrees with George Washington’s opinion in his Farewell Address.  GW warns us to avoid relationships with nations that damage our international standing such as our relationship with Israel, the most hated nation extant.

MC suborned perjury and trumped up corruption charges against JT, resulting in JT spending seven years in federal prison.

As reward for MC’s great work promoting Zionism, the Rabbis ordered their White House sycophant Bush to make MC Chief of Homeland Security.  Bush complied, as always.

Immediately after MC left his govt post and started drawing his handsome federal pension, MC became Sales Manager for the company who makes the X-ray body scanners.  European health authorities declared these scanners carcinogenic and banned them from use.  (If you refuse your American child to be subject to the scanner’s cancer-causing X-rays, a handsome TSA agent happily sticks his hands as far as they’ll fit up every orifice he can find in your child, with respect and a smile of course…if you don’t believe it watch the You Tube videos).  MC made many millions of dollars selling the b0dy scanners to his golf-buddy friends in high places at the US TSA.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:18 | 2009175 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's not war, it's a sinkhole which sucks up everybody, cleans their bones for future generations to look at and make them wonder how awsome we creatures must have been like without ever knowing the full story. Of the masacre and pain.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:28 | 2009184 e-recep
e-recep's picture

Yawn, that is too many "or"s for my taste.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:03 | 2009294 jm
jm's picture

Here's another "or":

Civilization works together to create a sovereign bankruptcy process to enable sufficient haircuts to creditors and sufficient austerity on debtors to make the resulting debtload serviceable again.

This will need to be done on a case-by-case basis to make sure that the unfortuneate caught in a bad situation are treated differently than scoundrels exploiting the situation.

It happens all the time with massive corporations debt loads, bloated pension and benefits packages, and impaired balance sheets.  Limited, structured ba;ance sheet reorganization... policy theoreticians could learn from the private sector practice.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:36 | 2009338 Mauibrad
Mauibrad's picture

Paraguay looks pretty good...

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:47 | 2009400 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I've been exploring the "Bermuda Triangle" myself.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:08 | 2009430 Incubus
Incubus's picture

uruguay

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:14 | 2009438 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Where did the debt come from?

It's a formula that should be familiar to everyone by now:

Privatize the profits and make the expenses and losses public.

It's hard to go broke when you're on the winning side of this trade. Hard to stay solvent when you're not.

Coming to a country near you.

Note: Rumor has it that Greece, like Afghanistan, has a tremendous amount of untapped mineral wealth, including the so-called "rare metals" that are in such high demand. That may be the ultimate prize here.

http://www.realecontv.com/videos/banking-malfeasance/a-diabolical-partnership-.html

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 18:58 | 2009581 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

The difference is that the private sector does not believe that debt problems can be solved by extending more debt.

Thus, when credit card holders showed signs of being in trouble in 2009, their rates jumped from 6.99% to 34% and their lines were cut.

If that didn't help, credit was completely cut off.

The card companies had a few quarters of increased write-downs, but ended up with a better portfolio of customers and are posting nice profits today.

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 19:58 | 2009614 jm
jm's picture

Good point.  That is the problem in a nutshell:  people/businesses/government that need credit can't get access at rate sthey can service.  The private sector that can get access to credit don't want it.

Maybe distressed debt guys could add something to the issue, but businesses default because they must, and there is a well-established process for resolution.  The ones that have no access to a printing press are now utterly and thoroughly screwed.

Countries don't have a resolution process.  As a first step, there has to be a referendum so that the people can decide to take the pain of reduced lifestyle or the pain of austerity.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:39 | 2009634 q99x2
q99x2's picture

To the FEMA camps with the creditors and the politicians that supported them. Usery is a capital crime.

Maybe someone else said such things once upon a time. Or, was that just a dream - a really bad dream...one that you could not wake from but willingly escaped it through death. Anyhow it was probably just a dream.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:38 | 2009707 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

"One of the problems with economic crises is that mainstream economists and financial advisors either don’t see them coming or simply won’t admit to them."

The other problems are that governments and their favored advisors never admit the true causes and then prescribe the wrong fixes. This compounds the problem over time. Just like an improperly or undiagnosed disease it progresses until death. The fundamental problem with the Welfare-collectivist state is the welfare-collectivist state. It always fails no matter where it is tried and no matter what geniuses lead it.

We are witnessing the rapid economic failure of that system and we don't want any part of the medicine. We are hooked on the drug of the collectivist state and we are not going to suffer withdrawal till we have to do so.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 04:11 | 2009986 Seer
Seer's picture

OK, then lets have YOU tell the world what the "true causes" are and what the "fixes" should be.

Oh, and you have to utilize the grow-or-die paradigm: this paradigm is central to all "popular" economic theories (well, it's not really stated as such, but the magical word "growth" IS).

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 18:27 | 2009555 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

MERRY XMAS HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL YOU MENSCHES, DO-GOODERS, ZH LOVERS, WHORES, VAMPIRES ET. AL.

 

MAY THE NEW YEAR MAKE YOUR SHORT POSITIONS AND PM'S VAST RICHES AND LOVE, PEACE AND HAPPINESS FOR ALL! 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:28 | 2009122 technovelist
technovelist's picture

I wish people would not use technical language they DON'T UNDERSTAND!

A "negative feedback loop" means a loop in which the feedback is opposite in sign to the input, which results in a stable system.

The loop described is a "positive feedback loop" in which the feedback is in phase with the input, which causes an unstable system that amplifies the input more and more until some (usually catastrophic) limit is reached.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:33 | 2009127 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I prefer "poop loop", but only because of the season. Come Monday it will be a little more coarse in language.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:00 | 2009155 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Is that like a doo loop?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:19 | 2009178 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Just imagine we ever had a poop a doo loop...

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:56 | 2009208 cossack55
cossack55's picture

A doo-doo loop may be more accurate and less offensive.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:13 | 2009367 Panic Panic Panic
Panic Panic Panic's picture

or a doo-doo sinkhole....

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:38 | 2009132 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Now don't go all open loop about little details.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:57 | 2009151 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Thank gawd for that correction. For a minute there I thought we were all gonna get Debt Fucked.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:07 | 2009165 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

But they like to sound very technical! Bla, bla and catching frases. Don't apply your technical skills to that bullshit!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:55 | 2009205 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

+1000

This engineer thanks you for pointing this out.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:21 | 2009318 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The never ending MSM Economic anal(ist) specialist's grabbing poo droppings to polish into turds of investments.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:12 | 2009620 homer8043
homer8043's picture

In engineering terms, a lot of wealth equals the square root of -1!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:25 | 2009628 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Don't insult the square root of -1 - it's done more for the planet's wealth than you can imagine :-)

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 21:13 | 2009659 homer8043
homer8043's picture

Sorry, sorry, fair enough. Damn engineering joke.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:02 | 2009293 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

How about "circle jerk"?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:05 | 2009295 syvanen
syvanen's picture

tecno, thanks for this.  Proper terms are important.  The problem is that "positive feedback loop" though technically correct carries an implication that it is "positive" in the usual meaning of that term.  I have heard the suggestion that 'adverse' feedback loop might help solve the misunderstanding when writing for an audience that is technically naive. One would expect, however, that people who are offering expert technical advice on financial and economic matters would demonstrate that they knew the meaning of the technical terms they use.  It tends to undermine confidence in their advice and certainly causes one to wonder if they really understand the meaning of other technical language that is so frequently bandied about in the finance world.

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:16 | 2009310 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Agreed, but this is not as bad as using models which make sense in the physical world to understand the behavior of markets e.g. Gaussian models. That has been really devastating.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:02 | 2009676 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The terms "positive reinforcement" and "negative reinforcement" are also misunderstood psychological terms.  Positive reinforcements are those that encourage the behavior, whether "good" or "bad".   Negative reinforcement inhibits the behavior, of whatever type.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:31 | 2009383 Dr.Evil
Dr.Evil's picture

"I wish people would not use technical language they DON'T UNDERSTAND!

A "negative feedback loop" means a loop in which the feedback is opposite in sign to the input, which results in a stable system.

The loop described is a "positive feedback loop" in which the feedback is in phase with the input, which causes an unstable system that amplifies the input more and more until some (usually catastrophic) limit is reached."

 

I disagree! A negative loop is where the output is less than the input due to the negative feedback. Yes, in a audio amplifier it will produce a stable output and desirable, but in financing it will drain the system.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:02 | 2009419 syvanen
syvanen's picture

Negative feedback loop is a situation where the output feeds back on an earlier step in the production of that output and suppresses the throughput and hence the rate of output production.  Positive feedback loops happen when the output acts on the system and increases the rate of output.  I think the feedback you are talking about in electronics is a different situation.

 

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:52 | 2009404 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Negative feedback is also called "inverse feedback".

Positive feedback is taken socially to be a good thing, but in engineering it is seldom a good thing, hence confusion.

The vagueries of language...

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 08:06 | 2010112 Seer
Seer's picture

Yes, thanks for pointing this out!

It's a lack of negative feedback (checking the runaway, self-feeding positive feeds) that's the problem.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:28 | 2009123 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It seems to me the only way to restore some degree of virtue and discipline in our system is limit the vote to people who pay federal and state income taxes.
While the system will still be unbalanced against the most productive (chrony capitalists and welfare parasites think and vote similarly), it might give our country a chance to reinvigorate our peoole.

There used to be shame in dependency and selfish, short sighted political expediency.

Since a return to allowing only legitimate stakeholders to vote will never happen, the slow decline will continue.

The east is vigorous and energetic, and it is not due to cradle to grave welfare policies that reward non productivity and punish the productive.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:33 | 2009128 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Welfare broadly defined is any system where someone gets more in personal benefits than they put into the system. It includes about 80 percent of social security recipients and 100 percent of medicare and medicaid recipients.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:48 | 2009144 centerline
centerline's picture

CHS wrote about this some time ago... that there are more people who are dependant on the system in one way or another than people who are not.  The margin isn't even close.  Hence, we are screwed.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:01 | 2009154 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Topcalling:  Small detail you missed -- some people actually die before they collect any social security or medicare benefits.   By definition, some are going to take out more than they put in, and some will take out less or none at all.   Do you have private insurance?  Same concept.   But by your definition, I am a welfare receipient if my house burns down before I pay the insurance company the full replacement cost.  The fact that our corrupt politicians gave and still give much of the SS/Medicare receipts to the military industrial complex and the bankers, does not render the system welfare.  Welfare is taking money from a system to which you did not contribute.  But good job repeating the Republican talking points.  

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:33 | 2009705 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Everyone who collects for more than 8 years at full benefits is getting more than they paid. Add up the contributions from some one who made 8 dollars an hour in 1972 and someone who makes 30 dollars an hour today.

More importantly the majority of todays SS check cashers today never made more than 10 dollars an hour the entire life.

SS is a scam. If you and yours are getting it now I understand the support, but to say it is fair or that those getting checks for 20 years are only getting what they put in is and outright lie. Go to any olf folks home and count the number of old ladies who have been on SS for over twenty years.....

 

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 08:12 | 2010119 Seer
Seer's picture

Aren't you missing inflation in all of this?  Inflation is hardly the fault of those little old ladies.

NOTE: I don't argue that the system isn't sustainable (no man-made ones are).

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:49 | 2009202 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Don't you think that any insurance schem works in a same way? Why don't you stop paying your car insurance? The problem is that you have some entities drawing on those funds without even thinking about refunding them. Go for trolling and good luck

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:49 | 2009146 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i'm trying to imagine "vote limiting schemes" that turn out well. Hmmmm. Nope. Can't think of any. Nobody votes today anyways! BAD IDEA.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:51 | 2009148 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I think we can all agree during this Holiday season that it is the poor who are to blame for the world's economic crisis.   Trillions of dollars of derivatives backstopped by a privately operated Federal Reserve with its foot on the neck of the taxpayer, betting of client funds by people who already have hundreds of millions of dollars of their own, offshoring of jobs to increase the wealth of the top .01% while the middle class borrows to sustain its existence, lack of enforcement of the rule of law due to corruption of the enforcement arm by modern-day robber barons, and a government run by the oligarchs for the oligarchs, has nothing to do with it.  Fuck the poor.  They should get a job laying in the potholes of our public roads so my Bentley doesn't get frame damage in the winter.  And we should take away their right to vote because some of them may object to that idea.  Merry Christmas.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:03 | 2009160 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Not only do I want to ban the poor and downtrodden from voting, I was hoping that ANYONE with an opinion or perspective different than my own would just fucking die. 

Poor people = YUCK!  Different opinions =  DANGEROUS.

Merry Christmas to all!

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:24 | 2009181 centerline
centerline's picture

Kick ass rant.

The sad part is that while the "poor" did not create this mess, they are a key component of the "autopilot" system that has us locked onto the path of guaranteed economic destruction.  Add in the millions and millions of people who work for the government, get retirement checks from the government, are taken care of medicare programs, get food stamps, etc. and we have a real problem.  It is the perfect final act for the banker scam... the people themselves take final blame for everything - and in turn will blame the politicians.  

The "moneyness" that we see every day is already toast.  It was vaporized long ago.  Only the day of recognition has yet to occur.  MF Global was really important because it is a glimpse of what I am talking about.  This is precisely what will happen on a global scale, in a flash.  Money meets anti-money the instant the shadow banking system sees the light of day in any significant enough way to set off the inevitable cascading ring of bank failures via counterparty exposure.  "Poof."

The next day we have chaos as millions and millions of people find thier government lifeline is MIA, banks on "holiday", etc.  This is why America is being turned into a police state.  I really don't believe it is because they are after honest folks like ZH'ers who are preparing every way they can to take care of themselves and loved ones.  It is because of all the people who aren't paying attention and will riot South Central LA Style or New Orleans Style the moment the shit hits the fan.  On the local level however, it is certainly possible that ugly things (abuses) will happen as the rule of law is thrown out for martial law.

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:05 | 2009218 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Centerline, one of your earlier posts made a refernece that made me think you live in the Atlanta area. I do, as well. It's good to know there's at least one other person in the vicinity who is awake and trying to anticipate how this thing is going to play out. I'm in the far reaches of the northeast suburbs, in a pretty good location in the event xenophobia kicks in with force. I'd like to have a place a little further north, but the circumstances are what they are. I have a plan for when TSHTF, but I don't know if it's enough. I mean, there is a pretty wide spectrum of possibilities for how things are going to go down, but we all have to do the best we can with the resources at hand. I hope the worst case scenario never comes into play, but there's just no way to see that far ahead. Hopefully you and I are making the right moves for ourselves and our families.

Best wishes for the new year.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:36 | 2009257 centerline
centerline's picture

Same to you WonderDawg.

Actually, I live further south.  Central Florida area.  No easy way out from where I am if things get funny.

I used to live in Atlanta.  East side.  I have family that lives on the Northeast side and I am up there all the time.

Yeah, I think big parts of Atlanta would be in serious trouble.  That is one angry city.  Bonified proof that racism goes both ways.  Shame, because Atlanta really has alot going for it.  Love the weather.  Central Florida is too damn hot and humid.

I also hope the worst case scenerio does not play out.  But, I am absolutely certain that we are doing the right things for our families - and our communities.  The hardest part really has been convincing my family of the need to change.  The programming at play is really powerful stuff.  I know that my wife "gets it" but I can see the programming (and society) pulling her the other way.  At the same time, I can see people around me desperately seeking any sort of stability.  I think that if we don't achieve this, our children will.  I just wish change didn't have to involve pain - but I just dont' see any other way out.

Keep developing that plan (and backup plans - because you know what they say about "plans") and looking out for your loved ones.  You can't go wrong there.  And, maybe you inspire someone else to do the same.  Your being here on ZH and willingness to post contributes to this.  I only wish more of my neighbors and friends were "awake."

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 21:59 | 2009675 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Ah, central Florida, okay. I lived in Jacksonville for 10 years, and loved it there. I plan to go back one day, but not before there is some kind of resolution to the current situation. Like you said, no easy way out of there. I'm sure you have a plan to get out of town ahead of mass chaos, if things play out that way. The key is seeing the early signs and taking action before the masses realize what's upon them. Godspeed.

You mention back-up plans, which I don't really have at the moment but have been thinking about lately. I do need Plan B and maybe C. But having Plan A is probably a step ahead of 95% of the population. In a perfect world, we'll all breathe a sigh of relief when we come out of this unfazed. But this ain't a perfect world.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:56 | 2009415 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I actually called the Fed the "money/anti-money converter" and compared it to our engine on the "Starship Economy." I agree..."it's output seems a little weak" right now.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:06 | 2009299 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

LetThemEatRand - This is sarcasm I can appreciate.

Merry Christmas.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:49 | 2009343 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Nice, but the social welfare state is counterproductive to all your sentiments and only further empowers the Banker class by enabling government indebtedness and usury on the middle class and chronic theft through deficit spending and debasement of currency. The US has the highest corporate taxes in the world, for "Social justice," and is even now endeavoring to regulate the dust on family farms "for our safety" -- so of course jobs are moving overseas as fast as they can.

 

The poor: Only about 5% are chronic poor through infirmity or by choice. There is a 5% criminal poor and a 5% temporary lifecycle poor - with low/no income when young/in college, and again when retired and old. Most "poor" move in and out of poverty throughtout their lives, it's dynamic, and not the sort of grinding poverty seen in the absence of free market economies under Statism. Yet, we are told our arrange our entire national priority so that the state can, as inefficiently as possible, prop up this fraction with massive debt when all that is really needed is for the banks/government to just get out of the way and create the conditions that promote personal independence and prosperity, not destroy it. 

Henry Ford did not oppress the middle class, he practically created the American middle class, and it didn't cost the government a dime. There will be no more Henry Fords in America because they have been outlawed.

 

Stocking Stuffers!:

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."  -- Ayn Rand

"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them."  -- Ayn Rand


 

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 18:24 | 2009554 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ayn Rand was a narcissist who created a religion that celebrates individual self-interest and greed.   In my experience, those who follow her tend to do so because her "philosophy" excuses behavior that would otherwise be deemed extremely selfish if not sociopathic.    She was openly anti-Christian and considered religion in general (other than her own) to be the enemy of enlightenment.  Worship whomever or whatever you wish, but I can think of better Christmas stocking stuffers than Ayn Rand quotes.  Merry Christmas.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 19:04 | 2009572 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

A song which has been on my mind almost constantly as of late: Kill The Poor by Dead Kennedys. Biafra is the man.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 19:05 | 2009575 Pitchman
Pitchman's picture

Letthemeatrand:

The poor; no worry, more can be created.  In a system dependent on an annual expansion of debt, that has reached a saturation level where the continued creation of money out of thin air, at interest, has no net effect, we are guaranteed of an ever expanding legion of poor. However when the whole thing implodes, which it will, your Bentley will serve little purpose other than living quarters as you to join the ranks; marking time before a box car rolls up with your number on the manifest.

All Americans must consider the following

"The bane of humanity is we learn nothing from the horrors of past atrocities; and history repeats itself. Our/Your passive acceptance of one transgression or worse complicit participation, always makes way for another.  This and the belief that injustice, visited on our neighbor, will not one day come knocking at our door is the banality of evil and its final reward is death." - Inflection Point

See: RAPE OF THE REPUBLIC

TO FREE OURSELVES, RESTORE FREE MARKET CAPITALISM AND REESTABLISH OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, WE MUST FIRST ELIMINATE THE MOST PERNICIOUS CORRUPTING FORCE OF ALL.

END THE FED!

See:

Money Power And The Central Bank: Life Is But A MEME

END THE FED: THE FIRST STEP IN RESTORING OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC

Inflection Point

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 19:06 | 2009584 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

We are in full agreement on this point -- end the fed.  

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:19 | 2009623 homer8043
homer8043's picture

What I don't get is the 0.5% to 10%. Maybe be they are just so comfy. It isn't the 1%, it's higher. The leaders in the 0.5-10% just are blind, indifferent, watching their daughters at soccer games? 10% and below are powerless. 0.1% and above have all control unless the slice I mentioned get educated or uncomfortable. Until they get uncomfortable, this will not get better.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:21 | 2009179 Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

Actually, I was thinking of a new form of legislative government.

One house would be elected by those that pay more taxes than income from government, that excludes government contract firm employees such as Lockheed-Martin, and NPR.  This would include all federal state and local employees. Also excludes all large bank employees, and any banks that go to the Fed discount window, or are primary dealers, GM, Chrysler, and hospitals, healthcare.  This group would include those homeless who beg on the street but do not take a dime from government.

The other house would be elected from those on the dole, including government contract firms, government employees, etc.

Then let them take any legislation to conference.  All appropriation bills would emerge from the first house.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:35 | 2009253 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Politicians are "elected" by money.  Votes are just the result of applying the money in a successful psyop.  The idea that there is or can be a government that does not primarily represent the old-money interests is nonsense.  The fuedal system is alive and well.  It's just not called that anymore.  

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:46 | 2009715 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I believe Jefferson proposed that in the beginning. It is the best solution in our system. The alternative is that all classes must be treated equally. A tax increase on one is a tax increase on all. That would readily limit rates and government growth.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:29 | 2009124 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

you can solve debt problem with money printing and having 99% pay with more work for less pay due to inflation

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:56 | 2009150 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

we tried this in the 70's and it completely failed. What worked was we crushed inflation, decentralized government dictats and won the Cold War...which led to of all things and even greater catastrophe as "greed got out of control." there must be a price for failure. "Failure is a good start" so to speak. So is being able to "start again"! Without that "we're phucked." "If you keep lending to the same clown expecting a different result" then that's YOUR BUSINESS. It's NOT THE BUSINESS OF GOVERNMENT because "government keeps lending to the morons on Wall Street expecting a different result." And of course the irony and TRUTH is that "neither Wall Street nor Washington gets what they want." Namely a economy that is recovering, etc, etc...Needless to say "we're going to get more war no matter what." Invest accordingly!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:42 | 2009266 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

what do you mean? global elites succeeded beyond their dreams. For 30-40 years middle class got screwed but they were covered up with easy credit. "IT" succeeded for top 1%. "IT" is almost so successful that middle class in America is pretty much hopeless.

 

since then with Reagonomics supply side economics workers had more work less pay:

  • illegal immigration labor (amnesty) competition at home for manual labor industries
  • immigration labor competition at home for service industries
  • 3rd world wage labor competition at abroad for manufacturing
  • savings erosion via pension reset and 401k scam
  • private sector union busting
  • money printing goes to richest first so they get the largest cut of the rescue funds: institutional banksters --> government and retail banksters --> executives --> workers
  • brainwashing of lower class masses with religion to support elitist economic policies in tact
  • brainwashing of upper middle class masses with promise of becoming upper class one day by copying materialism (corporate executives below C-level are getting laid off in mid 50s now where social security doesn't even kick in until 62)
Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:04 | 2009425 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Look at Greece: Prosperity from Austerity is a complete disaster and is...just as obviously...a ludicrous concept. There is no more austere place than the USA. We're flat broke. The theory that this helps some mystical "elite" is ridiculous. It helps the MILITARY...but not the elites. The elites need a happy holiday season...with pennies in people's pockets and jobs galore. I went shopping today and for all intents and purposes saw NOBODY. The day before Christmas? SCARY. I agree with analysis of the Reagan years...but we were producing a million jobs a month! That's a great definition of a good economy...whatever you think of the "fairness" of it. By the late 90's the USA had hundred billion dollars surpluses. Look at us now! CATASTROPHE! Have a Merry Christmas Aldus. Remember, sometimes holding on to what you have is the greatest victory of them all.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:32 | 2009125 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Said it before, and I'll say it again. Ireland will be the trigger. Irish citizens are IMHO expected to be the biggest losers in this globalist plot and I believe they will be the ones to throw the effective monkey wrench.

Go Ireland! And that comes from an unfortunate citizen of the once United States.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:38 | 2009133 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I am surprised at how readily the irish have taken to yoke, bit, and halter.

They are quite intent on enslaving themselves to prove what good citizens they are. "See? We pay our debts even if it indentures our children."

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:47 | 2009141 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Only so far. As the noose tightens (and it will) an existential demand for freedom will assert itself. Consider that at this point all freedom known must be put to risk off loss in order to establish true freedom. They need to go all in and have not yet been brought to the point of being resigned to the necessity of doing so. What is called for is essentially one generation to sacrifice themselves for the interest of the next. The Irish have done that in the past and I believe they will do so again as the calling for such action becomes more clear.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:59 | 2009211 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Exactly - I find it hard to believe that the same proud people who stood up to the British and told them to GTFO are now taking it lying down.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:34 | 2009130 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

I say only land owners should vote.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:51 | 2009147 centerline
centerline's picture

That means no one votes.  If you dont believe me, stop paying your property taxes and you will find out if you really own land or not!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:47 | 2009135 Hansel
Hansel's picture

And of the 140% increase in debt in 10 years, the most indebted countries bought each other's debt.  Libya, Namibia, Botswana, Mali, Papua New Guinea, Gabon, Moldova, Estonia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, and Oman are not the ones 'financing' this 'debt' (a.k.a. ponzi scheme).

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:43 | 2009136 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I can't wait to move ot Oman! Anywho the question of "what's standing in the way of recovery" is exactly what stood in the way of dealing properly with the mania: private interest. On the way up everyone had a "guraneteed money making scheme." In that case it was securitization. Wall Street made a FORTUNE doing it. Now "post Apoclaypse" Wall Street has the identical (misguided) scheme on the downside namely: "a guaranteed way to get their money back." They've never had either of course...but "the whispering classes" in the media have told us that "they" do. If by "they" you mean the banks...and I do...then "they do not have a way of getting their money back." In other words unless and until Uncle Sam really starts to do something "the USA is heading towards a Greek like event as well." Private consumption is not inflationary in the USA. PERIOD. We may not make everything in the USA...but there is nothing that isn't made that cannot be bought here. So what happens? "It's sits on the shelf gathering dust." Gotta change that IMMEDIATELY. LOOSEN IF NOT ALTOGETHER THROW OUT THE BANKRUPTCY CODE. The second thing which must happen IMMEDIATELY is some type of "dictator for private property rights" needs to emerge. OUR PRIVATELY OWNED GOLD IS LITERALLY BEING STOLEN BY A JUDGE. This is a CRISIS. A legal code used to steal gold from private holder to private holder? UNBELIEVABLE! AND: "It happens because far more valuable property is being stolen as well." That's right...as ridiculous as it sounds..."thought thievery." If i can produce anything...what matters in this evironment? "I need your thoughts...you 'mind' as it were." Interestinly enough...I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. HOWEVER! THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS. IN THE USA YOU HAVE TO PAY ME FOR THAT. If something like my "thought" for a "Patent Police" were effected then that would be it's purpose. To admit "thought theivery is rampant" and "start enforcing the rules for mind-sharing" from private mind to private mind. Again I know it sounds ridiculous...but there is no limit to the power of this "internet thing"...and unless and until PEOPLE START GETTING PAID...there will be no recovery. Just a ...thought...of course.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:11 | 2009680 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

There must be some good stuff in there.  At least the passion is obvious.  I just couldn't dig it out of that pile of words.  Try again with some actual grammatical structure and let's take a look at it.   My mining skills have atrophied in my old age.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:45 | 2009138 Bullwinkle Moose
Bullwinkle Moose's picture

This is a gigantic baloon with many pins in contact or in close proximity. Which one finally pops the bubble is anyone's guess.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:50 | 2009140 Bullwinkle Moose
Bullwinkle Moose's picture

But, the bubble will pop.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:47 | 2009142 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Notice how only recently "liberated" war-torn regions have no debt loads.  Hhhmmm, same as it ever was.  Everyone knows none of this debt will ever be repaid.  Boring world indeed.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:47 | 2009272 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

banksters make money off of interest by selling you debt. They hate people/companies/countries living within their means with no debt as much as working in a productive sector.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:54 | 2009723 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

They don't make money off unpaid debt and hyperinflation. They also do not issue debt that is not asked for. The beginning and end of the problem is the State, not the "banksters".

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 08:29 | 2010138 Seer
Seer's picture

I can relate to that- I'm a bad credit risk because I didn't use credit.

Hm, "productive sector," is there really such a thing given that nearly all human endeavors are unsustainable ("productive" actually leads to destruction)?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:49 | 2009145 blindman
Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:10 | 2009168 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

meet "dealers in mindware." That is an industry as well...far larger and with implications that go..."beyond imagination." This "war" is all too real i might add. The United States spent trillions during the Cold War on intelligence to gain one simple thing: "First Look." What is "First Look"? I way of gaining control of the advesaries mind prior to any attack. It is the ULTIMATE advantage. Is it being "writ large" as a commercial enterprise now? The technology sure has changed! BETTER, FASTER, CHEAPER. And WHAT an advantage! Perhaps you've heard of a company called "Bloomberg News"? Anywho...it is an historical fact that "the United States won the Cold War without firing a shot." Perhaps if we asked "how that was possible" then we at ZH would be on the road to "what the hell is going on right now." Here is all i would add: the USA may or may not have just lost a war in the Middle East, the United States does not lose wars, the Army is now in charge of the Mindware department. Sounds risky!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:58 | 2009152 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"One of the problems with economic crises is ... mainstream economists and financial advisors"  

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:58 | 2009153 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Here is the difference between Ireland and America. Ireland as a whole and as a population have accepted the spending binge it's people went on over the past few years and are atoning now for this profligate spending with honor and austerity, it helps when everyone has an innate acceptance to help each other, as this is imbedded in the culture!

Now let's take a look at America. America will fucking spend itself into oblivion, its people will never accept humble austerity, many of the culturally different neighborhoods would rather shoot their neighbors than share the burden of less spending. The cultural divide is reaching pure hatred and it is why there will be blood in the streets in a few years, once the EBT cards stop working, and when groups of people loot the rich neighbors, all because innately the different cultures in America hate each other. When you have an asshole like Obama in charge who does not even know that what he reads from the teleprompter is actually dividing his citizens even more, and one day when the bond market pops, and all the govt handouts cease to exist, and when the politicians call for fiscal and austerity unity, the people will truly let their feelings be shown by taking to the streets not in unity, but in hatred!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:11 | 2009170 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

OK, fine. We'll make you the 51st state instead of the 53rd.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:11 | 2009171 s2man
s2man's picture

Spot on, Eireann.  That's my prediction, also.  That's why I moved as far from the city as I could.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:37 | 2009192 centerline
centerline's picture

Precisely what will happen.

Why else are police gearing up with military equipment, acquiring serious crowd control technologies, building FEMA camps, pushing TSA out on highways, etc.?

Why else would our politicians squabble over everything, but unite like brothers to ram NDAA through?

To come get some middle-class doomer who has been hoarding silver eagles and canned food?  I don't think so.

They know what is likely coming at some point - or at least know the risks are significant enough.  To trample rights that have been the foundation of this country in such a hurry says alot about the risks.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:56 | 2009287 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That's nonsense.  Not all Irish went on spending binges.  Why the fuck should the frugal ones have to pay for the spendthrifts?  Let the spendthrifts pay the bill.  Of course they won't pay, so therefore it's the moral obligation of the rest to pay?  I don't think so.  If the London banks loan money to someone that won't repay them, that's their problem.  Making the thrifty pay instead is immoral and a bad precedent too.

It's much the same in America.   Why should I have to make payments on debt that was given to the TBTF banks?  You might say because "my representatives" made those choices for me.  I say: those people have never represented me or most Americans.  Embezzled IOUs are not legitimate debts for Americans or the Irish.  They deserve no payments.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:21 | 2009317 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Hear hear FeralSerf. Why should the ant have to bail out the grasshopper? I fully understand the Germans not wanting to bail out the Greeks.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:36 | 2009339 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

FeralSerf...you missed the fucking point..reread it...ts not about the frugal bailing out the idiots..it is about why Ireland will recover a lot faster than America..Turn off a EBT card in America and the person will loot and steal, and thy neigbor will step over him and let him starve...in Ireland they can walk next door and the rich or poor neighbor will help them! Merry Christmas!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:58 | 2009649 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Ireland's not going to recover as long as London can suck all the wealth from the Irish.  At least America can still print its own currency and force the rest of the world to accept it.

The EBT cards probably will not be turned off at least as long as the USD is accepted.  It's the way Washington keeps the proles in chains.  They don't need to print nearly as much to cover the EBT cards as they do the transfers to the global financial "services" industry.

Merry Christmas to you too!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 23:02 | 2009724 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You make a good point. I have thought that in matters of debt and war we should have a direct vote of the populace with a minimum 60% to pass. Once you send your neighbor to Congress, parliament or the State, they become a government animal...like an employee and they begin looking out for the State first. Send your neighbor to city council and the next thing you know the red light cameras you both hated appear next to your home.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 09:05 | 2010160 Seer
Seer's picture

Speaking of "matters of war," General Smedley Butler wrote that during war all politicians and corporate leaders shouldn't be paid more than the wages paid to the lowest soldier.

Regards to all else, it's about POWER.  Doesn't matter whether it's govt or the private sector, power will result in the abuse/oppression of others.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:39 | 2009391 SLOMO66
SLOMO66's picture

Ireland as a whole and as a population have accepted the spending binge it's people went on over the past few years and are atoning now for this profligate spending with honor and austerity

 

But it isn't true. Ireland's debt percentage was fine before the 2007/2008 crysis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/business/debt-numbers-alone-tell-little-about-fiscal-stability.html

In 2007, before the credit crisis hit, an analysis of government debt would have shown that Ireland was by far the most fiscally conservative of the countries. Its net government debt — a figure that deducts government financial assets like gold and foreign exchange reserves from the money owed by the government — stood at just 11 percent of G.D.P.

 

11 percent! If anything, the Irish should be going beserk right now.

 

When you have an asshole like Obama in charge who does not even know that what he reads from the teleprompter.

 

For f*cks sake. Of all the bad ideas Obama has you choose the 'tellepromter crutch'?

How telling.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:54 | 2009479 Hohum
Hohum's picture

Slomo66,

Government debt isn't the only type of debt.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 18:16 | 2009543 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Anyone who spells "crisis" as "crysis" cannot be taken serious! Go back to elementary school to learn how to spell before you open your inbred piehole!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:15 | 2009682 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I sorta like the word.  Rolls right off the tongue.   CRYSIS.  Quite descriptive really, in a coined word sort of way.   Cry-sis.   And a lot we have to be sad for.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:27 | 2009629 homer8043
homer8043's picture

I've always liked the Irish, especiallay the few I met in Boston. We can't take a hint. I hope to get over ther before everything blows up.

I'm hoping a depression where our Fed is teethless makes us look inward. Otherwise, no.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:16 | 2009156 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Well then, I guess theres nothing else for me to do but to sit down and enjoy my fucking meat and drink and live whats left of my feeble existence. Love your family and friends. Merry Christmas

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:01 | 2009157 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Here's the quick fix:

1. Let the system colapse

2. Arrest, convict, tri and execute the Global Criminal Cabals.  Specifically all in the current 3 Branches of the Federal Government. They're all criminals and have engadged openly in criminal activity.  IE. Illegal Wars, signing of NDAA and insider tradeing etc... 

3. Begin a new system based on PEACE, free energy, exploration, technoogy, manufacturing, labor, prosperity and debt free currency backed by gold, silver and labor.  Impose strict Tariffs on all imports. 

4. Make usuary an illegal criminal practice.  IE. No more Ponzi schemes. Free interest loans to small business. 

5. Destroy the CIA, FBI, FDA, Dept. of Education, any and all Federal Agencies where "Crony Capitalism" exists.

6. Reinact Glass Steagal. 

7. Cut the Military by 80%.  Install a draft.  With the Children of the wealthy at the top of the list first to inlist. 

8. Repeal Corporate charters.  Fuck them, ther're monopolies and started most of the problems we're in anyway.

9. Wall Street?  What Wall Street?  It's a huge Ponzi Scheme anyway.  See ya.  No more Wall Street. 

10. Term limits on all.  No more revolving door between Private and Public Sector.  Once you've serve in the Pulic Sector you're not allowed to serve again. 

Just a start but you Zero's get the big picture. 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:19 | 2009177 FutureShock
FutureShock's picture

2 and 3 are not gonna a happen and this is down the road. Every country has only three options:

1. Pay off the debt  (not likeley, not enough growth or taxes to make that happen)

2. Default on the debt (catastrophic option)

3. Inflate the currency

Bet your ass on number 3.  However you need ONE stable currency to do that and everyone at the same time and it is not the dollar. Gold is the best option, OR countries will race to the bottom with each other as exports get fucked, leading to war.

 

 

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:22 | 2009180 treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Defaulting on the debt is only catastrophic for the TBTF banksters.  I hear Iceland is doing quite well these days.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:36 | 2009188 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Chupacabra

Your 10 Point Plan is great but there's a far, far simpler 1 Point Plan which is faster and more effective:

1. Kill Govt

Yep, simple as that, the only policy you need for society to dig itself out of this (Govt) sewer.

Govt is a feeding frenzy of parasites (the unproductive) in society. Feeding on their host, the productive (private sector), via socialised theft, taxation

Take away the parasites feeding bowl (the IRS revenue stream) and all the unproductive parasites go hungry and wilt away and all the productive people become immediately richer better able to invest in new wealth creating enterprise... enriching society

So how do we kill Govt? Well maybe you understand why the IRS is so powerful. Because taxation is the Achillies heel of Govt. When you, other people and particlarly the main taxpayers of society, small and medium sized business, Stop paying their Tax, that mighty Shitshow, Govt, collapses quicker than you can say 'Freedom'

So 1 simple Plan and 1 simple policy to enact it: Zero Tax = Zero Govt

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:46 | 2009198 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Sorry, but your post is incredibly stupid, naive and thoughtless.  Libertarian wingNUTS like YOU are Ron Paul's biggest obstacle to becoming president.

If you want a society without a centralized government, you should move to Somalia.

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:08 | 2009212 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Somalia levels of poverty is precisely where we're heading ...because Govt (and its parasitical agents) is killing/sucking the economy and free market dry 

if you like what central Govt (mis)manages go suck on the bankrupt debacles of US property, healthcare, education, energy, transport and the murderous military (at least somalia hasn't got 3 illegal wars going on)... all your politicians are sponsored by national banking frauds and all the rest are in the pockets of one monopolist after another

Everything Govt touches turns to crap (there's a lesson for you somewhere pea brain)

The State has debauched and ruined every country on the planet, some many times over... you Statist tossers are dumber and more senile than Greenspan and Bernanke

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:12 | 2009224 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ Zero Govt, thanks for the retort.  I don't have to heart to response to individuals who attack and name call.  Those who do either watch too much Fox, TV and have no intellect to debate.  Little does he know that Governments have killed people than all military's throughout history combined. 

Let's arrest the Criminals.  We know who they are and where they and thier families live. 

 

RP or bust 2012. 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:55 | 2009244 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the Law system (another monopoly) does not work... as you see with 4 years of known mortgage fraud and not a single bwanker cuffed to date ...the exact same fat cat financial crooks were let off the hook in the 1930-40's

Society has a way to deal with scum, when enough of them are robbed they go round the tossers house and ...whatever..

But while we continue to pay tax into the monopoly institution Govt we continue to fund the parasites protection racket, the Law, Judiciary and State Police

On Animal Farm the pigs are more equal than other animals... yep, they're immune from the Law because they're above the Law (anarchy)

The solution to cancerous monopoly institutions is Freedom and a free society ...it couldn't possibly be worse than this stinking bankrupt State Shitshow now could it?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:19 | 2009371 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Somalia was just fine until the UN forced them to install a central government and bank. Read a book. The Xeer system has much we could learn from.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:05 | 2009426 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Oh no, Somalia another IMF fuck-up!!

Just wait til Christine Lagard finishes with the IMF ...she left the French Govts books so bankrupt they were robbing long term pensions to pay short term cash flow holes in the balance sheet

another peeeerfect CV for Govt high office... where does the public sector get all these Pros from.. do they send Govt talent-spotters to Village Idiot Contests every week?!

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 22:19 | 2009684 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Uh, I believe the U. S. did that pension plan robbing thing while waiting around for that last budget deal.  It got paid back, of course, but the next time those gov't retirees might not be so lucky.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 03:34 | 2009961 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

So then if you want a society with a centralized government you should move to N. Korea, right? Centralized governments must be paradise.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 17:06 | 2009490 Hohum
Hohum's picture

ZG,

And of course there will be no consequences as "all the unproductive parasites go hungry and wilt away."  What percentage of the population do you think is "productive" anyway? 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:40 | 2009182 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture

 

 

Your "Little House on the Prairie" version of utopia would only work within a very small, Amish-style community.  It has absolutely no relevance to the interconnected, multi-trillion dollar, modern world economy.

Besides, who's gonna give you free energy?  Who's gonna give you free loans?  How did the people who have money to loan for free get their money in the first place? If the person issuing free loans had to work for their money, why would they risk loaning it away for free? 

Was you post intended as a joke?  Are you a communist? 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:45 | 2009262 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the 'multi-Trillion world' you refer to is merchants international trade where there is no Law... individuals trade with each other and have done for Centuries to enrich the globe with no Law required.. it's all based on human relationships, handshakes, $Trillions turning over without any centralised or Govt system

the other 'multi-Trillion world' is that of international banking and Govt debt that is impoverishing, crushing and vandalising the world

one system works via individualism, peer to peer (no Govt or law or central system required)

one system destroys via collectivism and centralism that represents nobody except the human scum in office 

The free market/trade works ...the Govt or monopoly industries always fail in bankruptcy (see now or Centuries of history you've not learnt one iota about)

When you can count, think, deal with reality and not fantasy and deal with facts come back for a chat pea brain

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:12 | 2009365 delacroix
delacroix's picture

most of the old money, was stolen

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:38 | 2009633 homer8043
homer8043's picture

1. Yes please,

2.Easy.

3.That takes years of theory, beyond drunken CE response.

4. Ughh, seems, to contracdict other points.

5.All named, it will take a while.

6.Fifteen years ago.

7.Yes, no draft. If you cut by 80% and stop fighting every war, you can find enough volunteers. They military is a high risk, high reward way up.

8.Coach.

9. Don't get me started. Mostly disguised theft.

10. I agree but I don't know how you do it outside of actual ethics. Or gunshots.

 

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 09:12 | 2010163 Seer
Seer's picture

"Wall Street?  What Wall Street?  It's a huge Ponzi Scheme anyway.  See ya.  No more Wall Street. "

It's ALL a Ponzi, even those fixes that you're suggesting are no more than lipstick on the unsustainable pig.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:05 | 2009163 s2man
s2man's picture

Since Europe is referred to as being the largest economy in the world, I would like to see their debt summed, instead of listed by individual country.  Just a thought...

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:52 | 2009281 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

sentiment depends if you want to include Germany in the Euro-zone figures or not.

 

It is basically UK vs. Germany battle for Euro-zone superpower

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:12 | 2009172 treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

"Without taking tough, systemic and coordinated economic measures including fiscal consolidation.."

 

What, exactly, is being said here?  An end to the Fed, establishment of the Gold standard & jubillee?  A global consolidated loan from Mars?  Or, a New World Order?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:44 | 2009173 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"In the center of the feedback loop is what we call Euphoric Mania. This is when the Federal Reserve and central banks step in to help with their band-aids.."

I'd prefer you called it what it was, a monopoly on money, than invent some new nerdy academic/economist bullcrap

The monopoly mechanism displays all the problems, wounds, viruses and cancers we are now suffering from.

Monopolies (always) deliver: declining productivity, efficiency and intelligence while increasing poverty, capital destruction, debasement, delusion/dysfunction and anarchy in society

Competition (always) delivers: increased productivity, efficiency, wealth, intelligence and enrichment of society

Govt is a monopoly on authority/power in society.

Central Banks are monopolies on money.

Both institutional monopolies will continue to consume, debase, cheat, lie and impoverish society until society wakes up and kicks the suckers (monopolists) out

And there is the simple lesson that centuries of dizzy academics, philosophers and economists never understood or 'got' while flapping around like headless chickens trying to explain policy with the latest clueless crapology 

The problem is simple and it is systemic: our society/economies are being impoverished and vandalised by monopolies (ie. monopolists: see centuries of free market rigging Rothchilds, money monopolising JP Morgans etc etc)

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:24 | 2009374 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

There is a difference between state monopolies and monopolies. There is nothing wrong with monopolies. For an excellent explanation, see Rothbard's "Man, Economy and State".

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:36 | 2009460 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

there is everything wrong with monopolies from every angle ...a free market will anhilate the products or services from a monopolised market (see Western cars versus Eastern block) in months and years. There is simply no comparison how many small sharp competitive organisms runs rings around one or two big slow dumb stiff fatuous ones (see US military whipped in Veitnam, Iraq and Afghanistan)

You'll have to give me some time to read Rothbard, there's a section on Intervention (Chapter 3) and 'Grant of Monopolistic Priviiege' ..is that where he proffers monoplies are better?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 18:08 | 2009534 technovelist
technovelist's picture

Rothbard says that the only way to keep a monopoly in the absence of government (i.e., violence) is to provide the best service at the lowest price. That kind of monopoly is no problem, although it is quite rare.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 23:25 | 2009751 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Chapter ten.  He is not saying they are better, just that in a true competitive market, without state intervention, a monopoly will only last if they provide the best product with good service at the best price. Otherwise, competitors would enter the market or consumers would seek substitutes. Thus, consumers win either way.

The problem with modern monopolies is they are State protected. Laws are allowed that create barriers to entry. This is also the situation with cartels. 

Hey, it threw me for a loop the first time I read it too. The idea of monopolies being evil had been ingrained in my education.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 09:24 | 2010175 Seer
Seer's picture

First thought that came to my mind when I read this was "The Mob."  Yeah, there's your example of a non-government monopoly.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:19 | 2009176 Marley
Marley's picture

Just think of all the social good that could have been done with all those quadrillions if not for the 1 percent and their minions.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 09:28 | 2010178 Seer
Seer's picture

Those "quadrillions" are DEBT.  Doesn't matter who is harnessing it, it's still theft from the future.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:32 | 2009186 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

 

 

“..Again here’s the key issue, Total Credit Market Debt to GDP in the world is approaching 340%, we’ve never been there before, and what’s important to understand about that is that any time we gotten anywhere near that in the past what’s happen is, both sides.. there being two sides entering a conflict.. and both sides’ deficit spending going into the conflict.. and to the victor go the spoils, and to the loser goes defeat and the fall..  and the reason why we are having such a hard time understanding what’s going on today, is.. there isn’t a playbook for this..”


 “..This is the largest peacetime accumulation of debt in world history.. So we don’t know how this going to end.. And you’re talking about the social fabric being ruffled, and maybe torn..”


- Kyle Bass 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 16:12 | 2009435 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

more like "torn asunder...thereby exposing a rift in the time/space equilibrium."

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:42 | 2009635 homer8043
homer8043's picture

Basically, the world is going to hell. We don't know when or in what order. Watch Jap bonds for fun?

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 09:31 | 2010182 Seer
Seer's picture

With grow-or-die as the fundamental principle the road was always leading to hell.  It's just that we're now seeing the flames and feeling the heat.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:37 | 2009193 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

I can hear the IMF in an internal meeting:

"Why is there ANY green on that map! It should all be RED! Get to work!"

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 12:39 | 2009195 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Sorry, not at home and cannot provide the link intended. Enjoy and connect the Obama healthcare bill to create non-productive employment.

The Century Of The Self

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:17 | 2009214 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

Do The Math

       ~with slewie~

  1. est 2012 world debt increase: 7%  [theEconomist]
  2. est 2012 world GDP increase/decrease: ____ [UPikEm,  BiCheZ]
  3. hello...?

iceland's lookin good, eh?  after extending their middle digit in the face of the banksters' layered portfoilios of debt digits, and defaulting (hint, hint), they may be poor & have bad/no credit, but they are working for themselves, not some vampire squid or two, or 5, or....

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 13:31 | 2009243 sudzee
sudzee's picture

Would be a treat to hear from Icelanders who were fully into physical and out of the "loop" when the collapse hit. Did physical save your butt or what?

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 20:53 | 2009643 strangeglove
strangeglove's picture

Now i git it!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!