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Summarizing The Terms Of Italian Austerity (Or Here Comes The Piazza Navona Strike Cam)

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Remember how two months ago Greece came up with a bulletized list of austerity measures it would immediately if not sooner engage in to demonstrate its responsible adult behavior, funded by over €200 billion in European and American taxpayers funds and two bailouts? Well, since then we have learned that Greek GDP has plunged below even the worst case scenarios, even as the country has missed all deficit cut targets. Today, it is Italy's turn, which however apparently was confused and presented the list of austerity before it got a Greek-style rescue. Which is bad. Because within a few weeks we expect the strike (and riot)-cam to be planted firmly in the Piazza Navona and across the streets ot the Trastevere in capturing the latest round of European indignation, oddly enough not caused by local filming of The Jersey Shore. And now that the strawman is out there, when Italy actually needs the money, which will be soon, and is found to be in compliance with precisely zero of its Reps and Warranties (or kinda like a Bank of America RMBS prospectus) it just may make defrauding the middle that much more difficult.

Summary of Italian Austerity

SPENDING CUTS

  • Cuts to the budgets of central government ministries, worth a total of 6 billion euros in 2012 and 2.5 bln in 2013.
  • Funding to town councils, regions and provinces reduced by 6 bln euros in 2012 and 3.5 bln euros in 2013.
  • Unspecified changes to the pension system to save 1 billion euros in 2012.
  • A progressive increase in the retirement age of women in the private sector to 65 from 60 to begin in 2016, instead of 2020 as previously planned.
  • The retirement funds of public sector employees will be withheld for two years after they leave their jobs.
  • A reduction the "cost of politics" resulting in a halving of elected officials and around 55,000 fewer positions in the apparatus of central and local government. However, Berlusconi did not give a timescale for these cuts.
  • Abolition of 34 of Italy's 110 provincial governments and the merging of town councils with less than 1,000 inhabitants. However, this measure will be "for the future" and not become effective during the government's current term of office, Berlusconi said.

HIGHER REVENUES

  • A "solidarity tax" on high earners, to be levied for two years, as an additional 5 percent on income above 90,000 euros per year and 10 percent on income above 150,000 euros.
  • Increase in taxation of income from financial investments to 20 percent from 12.5 percent, excluding income from government bonds.
  • Purchases worth more than 2,500 euros will no longer be allowed to be made in cash, as a means of curbing tax evasion. There will also be tougher penalties, such as suspension from professional bodies, for failure to issue receipts and invoices.
  • All non-religious public holidays, such as the June 2 anniversary of the founding of the Italian Republic, will be celebrated on a Sunday in a bid to increase the number of working days in a year.

REFORMS

  • A liberalisation of national labour contracts giving greater scope to strike accords at the company or local level.

 

Reuters' take on these latest promises scribbled on a non-binding piece of paper:

Italy's cabinet adopted sweeping austerity measures on Friday to cut the fiscal deficit by 45.5 billion euros and balance the budget in 2013, a year ahead of its previous schedule.

 

The measures, which were passed by emergency decree, must now be approved by parliament within 60 days. They come less than a month after parliament approved a previous austerity package, aimed at eliminating the deficit in 2014.

 

Rome promised to re-write and frontload its plans in response to a letter from the European Central Bank, which agreed to buy Italian bonds to arrest a huge market sell-off in exchange for faster fiscal consolidation and economic reform.

 

Austerity measures will now total 20 billion euros in 2012 and 25.5 billion in 2013, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said at a news conference after the cabinet meeting.

 

Economy Minister Giulio Tremonti said the budget deficit will fall to 1.4 percent of gross domestic product in 2012 from 3.8 percent this year, and be eliminated in 2013.

 


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Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:39 | Link to Comment Mongo
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Bunga time

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

"Buy the fucking Bunga!" - Bitchez.

(Credit to WB7 for that beauty)

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 10:05 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

This "draconian" Italian deficit reduction plan is not worth a paper it was written on. It is a joke.

It reminds me a street-corner prostitute promising to stay in her business practicing abstinence from sex.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:40 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Solidarity tax?  Oy....

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:04 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

.....an additional 5 percent on income above 90,000 euros per year and 10 percent on income above 150,000........

 

if you wanted to run people out of your country, that's a good start.

 

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:27 | Link to Comment navy62802
navy62802's picture

Same thing that's gonna happen to Jefferson County Alabama.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:41 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

"if you wanted to run people out of your country, that's a good start."

Where are these rich Italians going to go to? Greece? And are they going to be able to get as high paying a job there with massive unemployment around the EU? And will they really leave behind all their family and friends and networks simply because they have to pay an extra $5000 in taxes a year on their $200,000 income?

If that's as much loyalty as they have to a country, then actually yeah both sides would be better off if they did leave.

Don't be held hostage with idle threats from the rich. Wherever they threaten to move to is quite possibly going to be the site of the next bankster attack anyway. So what are they going to do? Move again?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:51 | Link to Comment Waffen
Waffen's picture

Who is John Galt?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:10 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

A ridiculous cult follower who has been proven wrong yet refuses to admit it because cult members tend to be true believers regardless of the facts.  See your anticipated response.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 01:09 | Link to Comment Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

Ayn Rand's fictitious hero ... and guess who worshipped Ayn Rand?  Well Alan Greenspan and Milton Freidman ... the 'intellectual' proponents of where we are today.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

You know, this reminds me of the big sports team owners who regularly hold US cities hostage in order for them to build them (or subsidize) new construction.  It's mostly worked, up until now...

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 12:12 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

Pay Day Today ,

You are so right. These rich Italians will eventually end up in China working for a bowl of rice.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 15:21 | Link to Comment ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

If your tax rate goes up by 10% and you get a pay raise of 12%, what's the net effect? 

The whole reason people in this tax class are able to command the wages they do is because they have the pricing power to demand them.

Most quickly recover if not immediately. 

It is those without pricing power that must ultimately bear the brunt of any increase, no matter who, what or where these increases originate from. 

The good thing is that pricing power, by it's very nature, results from a scarcity, so the burden of the few is passed down to the many and the net effect is very dilutive. 

Trickle down works. 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 16:26 | Link to Comment Pizza spaghetti...
Pizza spaghetti and mandolino's picture

The fact is that the solidariety tax is newspeak for tax increase. The top personal income rate becomes 57 %. However, dear Tyler, let me bet you, we won't see a revolution in Italy, unless there is world war. You may even see some demonstrations in piazza Navona but not a revolution. That's not typical Italian. Italian successful civil commotions happen only at times of international wars. The only exception in centuries, from the fall of the Roman Empire in 476 AD, has been the Fascist Revolution in 1922 (but also that was connected, somehow, to the Russian Bolschevik Revolution, an international major event).

So you'll see a serious revolution in Italy only if Israel attacks Iran. At that point you may trun out to have had a correct forecast.  

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 03:08 | Link to Comment dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

if you wanted to run people out of your country, that's a good start.

I've read before that higher taxes do not tend to make richer people move.

It seems logical to me that they wouldn't want to move every time the taxes changed somewhere.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:40 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Also the fact that jurisdictions with increasingly low tax rates tend to be increasingly unstable, dangerous or autocratic places to live.

Interesting correlation, that.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 08:17 | Link to Comment Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Unlike Chicago...

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 19:14 | Link to Comment masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

I predict tax revenues DROp if these measures are adopted.  But bureaucrats and politicians never learn.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:47 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

"Solidarity tax" = "Solidaritaetssteuer" (a fossil from German post-1989 re-unification which never ends in its parasitic eating away at all positive income).  Nice.  Did they send someone from the German Finanzbehoerde to draft this damnation to Hell?  The Germanization of the fun-loving Mediterranean cultures has come.  They will never look the same. Europe has killed off its sun-drenched utopias.   Everything turn to grey.    

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:41 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Grey? Why, Audi's look good in black as well.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:55 | Link to Comment Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Take a look at the proposed tax rates for capital gains. They look very German too. Socialists of Europe seem to unite. The question is if Switzerland will close the borders before or after the EUSSR will build a wall around Switzerland!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

This is 14.300.000.000.000 times better than the US budget compromise... At least they are trying to do something.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:59 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

YOU just hate it that the usa has the financial world's confidence and Europe as a whole doesn't. We are the only country whose bonds go up on a downgrade.

If you really want to run the next world currency you must get rid of spain portugal ireland italy and greece in the ECU.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:02 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

/whoopie/

$1746 per ounce of that "confidence" and ripping!

/sarc/

/bark/

/in the dark/

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:40 | Link to Comment swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

YOU might have recognized that i´m from Switzerland.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:33 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

really? do u have a cow? we use to have cows where i grew up. i miss those cows.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 01:59 | Link to Comment electronpaul
electronpaul's picture

 "the usa has the financial world's confidence"    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 10:33 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

lololol.  You gotta admit, though, "confidence" is what we do.  It's pretty much all we do, but still.

In reality, though, I see it as folks just trying to hide in the ponzi that will be last to fall.  Some confidence that is.  And what an achievement!

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 03:00 | Link to Comment luigi
luigi's picture

"YOU just hate it that the usa has the financial world's confidence and Europe as a whole doesn't. We are the only country whose bonds go up on a downgrade.


If you really want to run the next world currency you must get rid of spain portugal ireland italy and greece in the ECU."

Muahahahahahaha! No: all it's needed is a powerful fleet and a owning the largest arsenal of WMD in the world, then you can go around telling everyone "try to drop the dollar, if you can" (remember Jack Palance "Pick up that gun" ?)

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:10 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Good luck with this austerity measure (they have been trying to do this for decades without success):

  • Purchases worth more than 2,500 euros will no longer be allowed to be made in cash, as a means of curbing tax evasion. There will also be tougher penalties, such as suspension from professional bodies, for failure to issue receipts and invoices

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:32 | Link to Comment itchy166
itchy166's picture

This is about control, not austerity.  

 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 03:11 | Link to Comment dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

This is 14.300.000.000.000 times better than the US budget compromise... At least they are trying to do something.

I can't help but notice they are only raising the retirement age to younger than we have it at.  We waste too much damn money on corporate welfare and imperialism.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 19:16 | Link to Comment masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

As Yoda said, "there is no try, only do."

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Basta!  Si si, we have too much debt.  So does everyone!  Japan is worse than we are. So, come on down Senori Allemani and Mangia.

Eat it up!  We aren't gonna get debt free.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Irish66
Irish66's picture

10% over 150,000

Dang that will case chaos

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:51 | Link to Comment Herman Strandsc...
Herman Strandschnecke's picture

Not if you accept a pay cut to 149.999. There, fixed it.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:44 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Let's be real, someone on $160,000 will have to pay an extra $1000 tax. No big deal, seriously.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:57 | Link to Comment LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Exactly. That is one heck of a return on a single Euro!

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 04:26 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

actually, 16000€ extra and that comes above the tax they already pay.

The real question should come from billionaires who make 1000€ a month officially!

 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 08:38 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

"actually, 16000€ extra"

If you read the statement it says that it applies to income over €150,000. In the example I used above only €10,000 worth of income is affected as that is how much rests above the threshold.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment cswjr
cswjr's picture

"Solidarity tax", lol. 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Negro Primero
Negro Primero's picture

...meanwhile tutto tranquillo (at least at the Pope's Residence)

http://www.atlantestarhotel.com/webcam.htm

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:47 | Link to Comment swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

I would have offered the mafia to launder all of its money without criminal prosecution for a 5% fee. Hell that would have brought some revenues.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:54 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

"I would have offered the mafia and multinational corporations to launder all of its money without criminal prosecution for a 5% fee."

Just an idea.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:06 | Link to Comment vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

That would be  50 % of AMERICAN GDP...

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:09 | Link to Comment eurusdog
eurusdog's picture

You might be underestimating that a bit.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 03:09 | Link to Comment luigi
luigi's picture

Done already two years ago: it was called "the fiscal shield"... People having money abroad were allowed to bring it back with a mere 2% fee and a "tombal deal" with the state not asking anything about where the money comes from and renouncing on any further taxationo or prosecution for fiscal fraud. In fact Tremonti did some real unfair competition to mafia in money laundry...

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:53 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Now this is the durden that we all love and be "we all" I really mean me.

Bring back the junk button, please!

This place was great when we had the great flame wars and anything by GW about israel brought out the internet warriors in full glory.

We need the junk button....but some people didnt like controversy and wanted complete conformity...so junk went to ratings went to nothing at all now....so boring.

BRING BACK THE JUNK BUTTON. LET ZERO HEDGE BE REBORN AGAIN!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:15 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

TCT, you get released from jail early?  Heard the black SUVs got ya....

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:19 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

*Junked* 

L0L!  who could have seen that coming? 

hey t_c_t!  either way is ok w/ me.  i'm not sure if there are issus with the site staying up better w/out it, tho, in which case, i woiuld say better not, now. 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:16 | Link to Comment JohnG
JohnG's picture

No junk should take a load off the database servers....each junk causes an update.  I was worried about that when up/down appeared.  This boxed comments appeared to have exhausted bandwidth too.

The thing I miss is easily tracking one's posts.  Bookmarking works (most of the time) like before.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:21 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Personally, I think the addition of a topical threaded forum would be cool. 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 02:28 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

why don't you go to another site where you you won't hafta be sidetracked by morons like me, then, and the other "trolls" with whom i went OT, you fuking little asswipe!

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 10:32 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

"The thing I miss is easily tracking one's posts." - JohnG

From the Zerohedge page,  go to 'My Account", then select "tracking"

OR

go to:

http://www.zerohedge.com/users/JohnG/track 

 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment JohnG
JohnG's picture

Thx!

Sun, 08/14/2011 - 10:49 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Actually, just clicking on the name with the ZH comment will also work!

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:40 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I'd just take the ability to write articles for the scrum myself. We down here are the difference of course.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:50 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Yes, I want the JUNK BUTTON back as well.  And make all junks have a painful consequence. Say:  For every junk, the junked one has to donate one share of GS to zero hedge.  

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:55 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

You're going to get more than a few ups for your avatar.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

see her gold chain--I bought it for her.  She will be mine for a long time.  

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:58 | Link to Comment SamuelMaverick
SamuelMaverick's picture

I miss the up / green, down / red buttons.  It is pretty boring in the comments section without them.  Also, I wish ZH had a spellchecker. WTF happened when Tyler did this sites ' upgrade' ??   Enuf bitchin,  Tyler has been absolutely slamming us with an unbelievable number of articles over the last few weeks, it has been hard to keep up. Heck, even after being on here over a year I still feel like I am on a steep learning curve .

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:05 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

rally? (really: San Bernadino vocalization)

I am just for sure that those Eye-talians are so not interested in a Greek-style rescue.

(it rally sucks to have to splain wordplay, but guess I gotta).

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:10 | Link to Comment macholatte
macholatte's picture

flame this.......

(go to 4:30)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4FjODPDFA

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:12 | Link to Comment JohnG
JohnG's picture

Yes, but will "Tumolto Cane" make an appearance??

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:17 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

Can't buy two ounces of Gold with cash ?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:08 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

No, but you can buy one ounce of gold and 19 ounces of silver!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:18 | Link to Comment FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

I like this plan - bold and quick way to balance the budget. It has cut, tax, and balance components. Not in ten years - but in two years. Forza Italia!

Can we outsource our Congress and White House to Italy? Italians seem to know how to do it, and they have the balls.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:42 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

We are Italy take a look! Italy has learned and become "the USA of 50 years ago." At least they're trying to.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:02 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

they have 60 days to pass it.  since tyler included the part about a plan being passed last month, we shall see if this, which is probably a response to the banking crisis, also, will fly. 

after pm berlusconi announced that his finimini tremonti was resigning, with rumors galore about what was gonna go down & why, followed by the finimini "correcting" the pm, when he wasn't indicted for anything (i think) i'll bet there was some hand-waving & world-class gesturing in those cabinet chambers getting this plan ready to publish!

what they have done is ban short sales, for 1 day now, which seems to have "calmed the markets" but as tyler has been careful to point out, that sword can cut both ways.  markets, rates, and prices are being "managed" like never before by the very same geniuses whose economics brought them to the edge of the sheer cliff.  same as here, pretty much, it seems to me, Fin_C, the main diff being  they have the EU & the euro, with less "control" via their goobermint & banksters than the US with the world reserve currency.  so they hafta be a little more presentable at these auditions, since they are bull-shitting many more interests to get their financial applause.  

here in the US, for example, we see lower commodity prices, in general, and more reasonably-priced stock than a short while ago.  so, it isn't that some things can't or won't look better, here and there, at times.  but we can't generate enuf economic activity to run the country and pay the nut.  and the nut keeps getting bigger!

neither can italy, france, greece, great britain, spain, portugal, and so on.  libya prob had one of the strongest economies and fastest-rising standard of living on the planet over the last 20 years, but that has been "fixed" now, too.  permanently, perhaps.  if any of these clown shows suddenly "knows how to do it"..., well,...

...we shall see...

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:18 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Are only women being hit on the retirement age section because the men don't work?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:19 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

at least the amount of hookers alloted per politician wasn't cut!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:10 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

you got to keep the stimulus and job creation package going!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:20 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

ZH did you not know all it well with financials.... they soared today, so things must be absolutely perfect

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Wow, fuck the people over with 'reforms', taxes, and spending cuts, for a load of bad debt that can't be repaid.  Who bent over for the banksters? Italy claims it will.  Hopefully they renege, afterall, why should they do anything on that list? There's not one good real reason why they should do any of that.  Not ONE!

Now who is the only one in the equation not taking a  hit, the one who should take the sole hit!

It's funny people say 'at least they are trying something'.  Yeah and if someone cut off their balls they'll be curing cancer.  Because, they'll be 'trying something'...perhaps it'll work.  Perhaps if I put a straw up my nose, I'll discover the meaning of life! If not, at least I 'tried'.

No, the only way to get rid of either fraudulent and/or unpayable debt is to cancel it via Glass-Steagall or bankruptcy type reorganization (i.e. haircuts) on the debt.  That's it.  Everything else in the ponzi system won't work.

It's really funny people still don't understand jack shit about the problem.  It isn't spending, it isn't taxing, and no printing won't solve it neither.  It's the debt.  Everyone with a brain realizes over the past few decades it went way over the payable line, and now only idiots think any of their dogma political side's plan will work.

Meanwhile, the only one that never takes a hit, is the one holding onto the paper (what's the difference between hating paper fiat and paper debt?), and people hold onto the belief that 'debt' is as good as 'gold'. 

Glass-Steagall worldwide

Don't listen to the apologists...the cutters, the printers, the taxers that want to terrorize the people (like OBL in many ways) all to suck the cock of the debt holders.  Go pucker up for wall street banksters.  Because anyone that wants to pay off fraud and/or massive amounts of unpayble debt is in no way against the banksters, they are actually WITH them.

So when you look at that sad fact....who loves the banksters and are with them?

The republican party loves banksters and follows their cue.

The democrat party loves banksters and follows their cue.

The tea party loves banksters and follows their cue.

Printing, cutting, taxing won't get us anywhere.  It's the debt, and the mechanism that created it, that have to be destroyed.

Destroy it with Glass-Steagall

Otherwise in reality, you aren't 'trying something', you're just jerking off and saying you are 'doing something'.  Yeah you're doing something, you're playing with yourself, you're not actually solving anything.

'Reform', it's the new give away your rights word twister.

So if Germany is supposed to pay all these euro debts (along with france...until france can't), what should they do? Cancel it, via their own Glass-Steagall.  They aren't obligated to pay the banksters one dime for their frauds perpetrated on OTHER countries. 

It's all good if Germany crosses a 100 percent debt to -fraudulent measure GDP figure, because then they can force their own austerity.  Right?

Everyone is being swindled for banksters, and many still want to walk hand and hand with Bernanke.  But they say they hate bernanke, yet they help him out by legitimizing the debts.  Talk about being schizo.

Glass-Steagall or we're all fucked, because of bullshit being legitimized, and pushed by all the dogma of the political parties.  Dems, Repubs, tea, and all the idiots parties in other countries, all toeing the bankster line.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:36 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"It's really funny people still don't understand jack shit about the problem.  It isn't spending, it isn't taxing, and no printing won't solve it neither."

Don't agree.  It IS all about spending.  Spending is consumption, and, unless one just fell off the turnip truck, consumption has been The game (and why we're so compelled to protect against discussing it being the root problem).

Do people really believe that all of a sudden TPTB decided that they just all wanted to rise up and fuck with the plebes?  Think that they think that they could control the outcome of such?  I don't.  Further, I believe that this is all occurring because our current consumption levels cannot be maintained, let alone increased.  If there was plenty to go around then there's no need to stir this all up: ALL wars and disturbances have at their core battles over resources.  This is FUNDAMENTAL shit, this is what happens to all things demonstrating perpetual growth in a petri dish!

TPTB have only two methods for going forward (well, three*, but voluntary suicide by themselves isn't really on the radar):

1) Grab more control and by time by locking people down;

2) Tell everyone the truth, that we just cannot continue to go forward consuming like we do because the planet won't meet our demands- this, of course, would be perceived by the masses as being some conspiracy, in which case the truth would fail (and be nicely filled up by the empty hole of dis-logic, in a fashion like abiotic oil serves).

* Power doesn't cede itself voluntarily.  It's merely a possible path, but not probable.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:03 | Link to Comment Pay Day Today
Pay Day Today's picture

Both of you are damn right.

1) The debt is unsustainable and cannot be paid back. The debt holders are the ones who must be hurt. Glass Steagall all the way to the moon.

We recognise though that this unsustainable debt was built by unsustainable consumption, and consumer expectations which income did not keep up with. Therefore

2) Consumption and consumerism must be smashed. Simpler stuff, built tough and made to last forever. All the other crap gets EOL'd.

This is a pincer movement fight back, and it's got to hapen from a community level, like we have seen in Greece, like we will see in Italy and Germany.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

The global economy was/is hugely energy dependent and had/as to recede eventually.  The natural state of this reversal/unwind is with people contracting back into regional trade.  Doesn't matter what Italy or Greece, or anyone else for that matter, wants, it's what WILL be.  Better to embrace this REAL probability than fight it: don't let TPTB claim this future (by dickering about conspiracies and Al Gore [sorry Mr. Party Pussy, I had to get that poke in! :-) ]).

Oh, I'm sure that folks will take advantage of it, some taking the opposite side because they believe that there's some conspiracy going on (well, yes, Mother Nature is conspiring against the status quo, but good luck fighting this battle!).  TPTB will look to do what they always do, claim that they are steering us to safety, all the while not actually doing anything and living off those that do do.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Iriestx
Iriestx's picture

Meanwhile, back in the USA: http://i.imgur.com/TV3mR.png

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:50 | Link to Comment navy62802
navy62802's picture

Jesus, that was actually shocking to me. Was that english?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:38 | Link to Comment Franken_Stein
Franken_Stein's picture

 

A hypersonic test plane, a so-called scramjet, of the U.S. Airforce, has disintegrated during flight, for the second time.

Nonetheless they want to try it a third time.

 

Strange, I thought America is bankrupt ?

But you have time and money for these kinds of technological gimmicks ?

 

That clearly shows where the priorities lie with the U.S. administration.

There is always money for wars, that's for sure.

 

The U.S. cannot compete via fair competition.

It can only rob and steal the wealth of other nations through war, be it a military war, be it a financial war.

A parasite par excellence.

 

No wonder that everybody hates that stars-and-stripes loser nation.

What a joke.

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:39 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Bwaney Fwank needs a faster escape route.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:51 | Link to Comment Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

**Junked**

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:53 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

Helicopters are a thing of the past.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:09 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

@ franken_furter:  dude, if i were in germany right now, the last thing on my mind would be the US. 

you, sir, germany, are either gonna get cleaned out, or destroy the EU to protect yourself.  i could give you the morning line or which it is gonna be, but that might force you to get your head outa yer ass and look around, and you'd probably then have the thought:  why do my ears feel so cold?

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:24 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

maybe we (the US) will bail out europe .  again.  then we can own yer styooopid asses for another 70 years, like the freaking babylonian captivity with a double-down bet on the triple-lindy!  you decide, ok, frank?  you and angela and whatever banksters pull both of yer "invisible"  strings.  we'll just keep being self-righteous about our god-given ability to blow things up.  on land, sea, and in the air!  [L0L]

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:46 | Link to Comment Shameful
Shameful's picture

You simply don't understand Americans, if it was a choice between prosperity or watching a video of high tech weapons killing people, Americans will as a rule pick the video.  We love killing, what can I say?  And for those who would dispute that, go turn on your TV or watch a movie and watch the "hero". 

It's up to the world to stop enabling us and buying our shit paper.  Granted the oligarchs ran a clever scheme holding onto a lot of the worlds gold at the Fed, including Germany's gold.  So no one gets out of this knife fight pain free.  If it makes you feel any better America will be a rotted out husk in a decade.  Turns out the oligarchs really don't care for us either, we are just a really convenient mob of morons eager to do their bidding.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:02 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

But, but... "prosperity" has come from either wielding high-tech weapons, or making movies of them! <[mostly]/sarc>

NOTE: prospertiy is usually only alloted to the few, and only during continuous periods of "growth" (which has been on-going for a long time now, since we discovered how to exploit fossil fuels).

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:23 | Link to Comment koperniuk666
koperniuk666's picture

i make that 13bn on a deficit of 100bn  - ie f,.all.

as if anyone expected anything else. 

extend and pretend - you know the score.

as  for jmc 888

no people dont hate usa. maybe they dont respect it but they dont hate it.

the poor still look up to it for what it stands for - a dream - but hey thats better than f.all which is what most of them have right now.

i speak as a brit living in switz. i travel a lot and take the trouble to see the real world. Livorno not Milano, Sierre not Geneve, Lubeck not Berlin, Aarhuus not Kobenhavn. 

in the states - I warn you that you have got fat and lazy. Technologically Europe is ahead of USA by more than you think. You are still the big boys but the writing is on the wall. China is chasing up behind and Germany is already ahead

i dont mean this  hatefully or negatively - its just a view. good luck to you and God bless america. Defender of the free - unlike Germany (or China)

but this current mess is a product of socialism. not banksters - although they have been complicit and certainly the facilitator. its the govts; and sadly the poor pay, as ever.  

the poor will have  to learn the lesson again.

and again

and again

meanwhile i shall get back to the gin which is warming up on the aft deck....

Buy French banks!

Sell the Euro!

Croydon Freeholds for a quid!

Allah Akbar!

Mines a pint!

 

 

 

 

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:45 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"Technologically Europe is ahead of USA by more than you think."

And, what's that mean?  To me, a US citizen, it means squat.  The reason being is that I am looking to the future, and the future isn't "techonology," sorry...  See http://dieoff.org/page125.htm Figure 1. The Olduvai Theory of Industrial Civilization

Claims of exceptionalism is a sure way to find oneself staring the counter forces of hubris square in the eye.  If you're so keen on understanding that the US isn't #1 then I'd figure you'd be able to recognize why (read the previous sentence). 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:31 | Link to Comment koperniuk666
koperniuk666's picture

 I bet you've got a stash of tinned beans and some cans of gas buried under your lawn! Good luck!

And I couldn't care less  who is number one!

More beer!

 

 

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

And I bet, based on your inability to bet/guess correctly, that you're totally unprepared: whether you'll end up making decent compost isn't something that I can predict though...

BTW - No, I have no stashes of anything.  But, however, I do have a farm, one that will be off-limits to those who have poor thinking skills (make bad assumptions).

Thanks for playing!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:35 | Link to Comment LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Italy and austerity. Whoehahaha! Berlusconi and his fellows know: if the ECB stops buying bonds, the whole system collapses. He can go on bunga bunga, ECB will go on buying, no measures needed.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

The greatest game of chicken yet!

This is like having "pictures" of everyone (envelopes ready to send)!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:36 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Where are the margin hikes?  This is friday, no?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:57 | Link to Comment markar
markar's picture

this won't go over well with the Italians. Strikes, protests, who knows, maybe even an Il Duce moment for Berlusconi in the town square.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:58 | Link to Comment navy62802
navy62802's picture

Il Duce? Not so sure. But I'll definitely go with strikes and protests ... maybe even some scenes like we had this past week in the UK (Clockwork Orange - style).

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:44 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Berlusconi was attacked actually. i think it was last year. (so much is happening it could have been last month for all i know.) he wound up going to the hospital where a "not so well wisher" apparently appeared staring at him while he was in his hospital bed. that sounds scary. one of those "who the hell are you moments" --as Prime Minister no less.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:26 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

* junk *

 

Who left the baby gate open?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:35 | Link to Comment mynhair
mynhair's picture

Blabbermouth Schultz has a challenger - Karen Harrington.  Could be fun.

firedebbie.com

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:37 | Link to Comment nameman
nameman's picture

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Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:50 | Link to Comment DaCounselor
DaCounselor's picture

When I first read the title of this thread quickly I thought I saw the words "Pizza Strike" and I must admit it was very upsetting. 

  • All non-religious public holidays, such as the June 2 anniversary of the founding of the Italian Republic, will be celebrated on a Sunday in a bid to increase the number of working days in a year.
  •  This one will be the game-changer.  Brilliant.

    Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:54 | Link to Comment navy62802
    navy62802's picture

    If you want to get a good picture of what the USA will look like in a decade or so, please visit http://deadmalls.com/ . This site shows what the US infrastructure will look like in a decade or two. No one left to renovate it. No one left to occupy it. Consumerism gone dead. This is the vestige we will leave behind to be inhabited by those who have no say, those who do not control policy. This is where we're headed as a collective society. You can only consume so much before the scheme dies out.

    Fri, 08/12/2011 - 23:19 | Link to Comment Setarcos
    Setarcos's picture

    TPTB are definitely mad in a truly Orwellian way of double-think/cognitive dissonance.

    On the one hand (side of the brain?) dedicated to the mantra of endless growth (on a finite planet) whilst, at the same time, believing that shrinking everything will somehow re-start exponential growth!

    Neo-cons/neo-liberals/monetarists/whatever are a god-send to ultra-greenies, who also want to collapse everything by destroying the current, global form of civilization.

    Hegel would have a field day with this "dialectic" and couch it in terms nobody understands.

    Oh wait: No need for Hegel.  The thesis is such as 'derivatives' vs the antithesis of "Gaia", or some such.  But there ain't no synthesis.

    We are simply fucked, regardless of whether or not we, as individuals, were party to either extreme.

    Fuckyoushima illustrates where we are all headed.

    I could write more, but it would not make a tad of difference.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Fri, 08/12/2011 - 23:36 | Link to Comment oogs66
    oogs66's picture

    like greece, but with better food, better wine, and better women.  and they know how to crush an empire.

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 00:59 | Link to Comment yang46
    yang46's picture


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    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 01:56 | Link to Comment electronpaul
    electronpaul's picture

    "Well, since then we have learned that Greek GDP has plunged below even the worst case scenarios, even as the country has missed all deficit cut targets."

     

    Replace Greece with Ireland, Portugal, Spain, United States, etc. and you have the headlines for the next couple of years....

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 01:57 | Link to Comment Jovil
    Jovil's picture

    Compare the value of assets using John Exter's Inverted Pyramid of Assets

     

    http://lonerangersilver.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/john-exter%E2%80%99s-in...

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 03:24 | Link to Comment joak
    joak's picture

    Why only European countries are forced by IMF et al to take the path of austerity, cut spendings and raise taxes... all those things the US and A refuse to do as it would "harm the economy". Putin is definitely right. Ron Paul, please save us/US !!!!

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 03:37 | Link to Comment mannypanther
    mannypanther's picture

    the italian people are sooooo obedient 

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 04:04 | Link to Comment whirlybird rules
    whirlybird rules's picture

    .

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 04:03 | Link to Comment whirlybird rules
    whirlybird rules's picture

     

    A .5% PROPERTY TAX on the market value of EVERY HOME in Italy will plug up the holes in the deficit..  Yes, I know, people have been hit with a bunch of other home owner related taxes in the last 10 years, but I'm suggesting a genuine PROPERTY TAX ON THE FIRST HOME AND THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN PUT IN THE NAME OF ONE's MOTHER, CHILD, SPINSTER SISTER, etc.  And btw, all of the threats above of how Italians will riot on a solidarity tax- don't think so,  but a property tax would get them out in the streets....  which is why Berlus has not proposed it.  It is also the reason he remains in power. 

     

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 04:28 | Link to Comment css1971
    css1971's picture

    Purchases worth more than 2,500 euros will no longer be allowed to be made in cash, as a means of curbing tax evasion.

    The end of cash. That enaber of peer to peer decentralised transactions.

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:13 | Link to Comment Reptil
    Reptil's picture

    The most disturbing part in all this useless "pretend and extend".
    Handing over control over all currency to the insolvent banks.
    Centralised inescapable implosion ahead.

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:28 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
    slewie the pi-rat's picture

    why be disturbed?  get some real money, if you haven't, already, and don't sweat the small stuff...

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 06:57 | Link to Comment mainuh1
    mainuh1's picture

    No countries seem to acknowledge the problem created by over spending. Cuts would help resolve the problem but easy credit over the years would require such huge cuts to repair deficits that many countries will be bankrupt and more dysfunctional than they are now. All one needs to do is wait for the financial Armageddon waiting in the wings. The FED/Treasury pump monkeys will stop singing their silly green shoots tunes very soon. The happy banks will soon implode when the easy money from the FED dries up because the dollar will be worthless from all of the printing of new money with no backing. The American consumer is broke, over extended and can no longer help support the world economy with the rampant inflation that is sure to wipe out every household budget. The stock market will crash for good very soon. "If you don't make nuthin' - you are nuthin'."

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 09:46 | Link to Comment glenlloyd
    glenlloyd's picture

    It all looks like wishful thinking.

    People do their best to work around the system and I'm inclined to think they will work harder to make this happen now.

    Does the Ital govt really believe these goals to be achievable?

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 12:53 | Link to Comment whirlybird rules
    whirlybird rules's picture

    No.  But it will buy them another few months of fine wine, women and song!  And remember, when Berlusconi gets kicked out of office, he's is looking at the threat of jail time.  As far as politicians go, one could do worse than Tremonti, but he's also got legal problems....  Also, consider the first round of Greek austerity promises... how'd that work out for its creditors???  it is impossible that the markets at large accept this shit. It's been deja vu again too many times...  If the Chinese abandon Merk & Sark, the euro project is over.

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 10:07 | Link to Comment Librarian
    Librarian's picture

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8696101/Italy-turns-o...

    In Italy, a new media campaign portrays tax evaders as parasitic weevils, worms and ticks.  Italian finance minister Giulio Tremonti who is behind the ads, has had his credibility challenged by proof that only a few weeks ago he paid in cash for an apartment in Rome to avoid paying taxes. 

    Due to his respected position, Tremonti will not be subject to any official investigation.

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 10:50 | Link to Comment Piero
    Piero's picture

    I am Italian,

    i agree with you about Italy (and sorry Bunga Bunga of SB),

    in the medium term the Euro Zone will be splitted and German will leave Piigs alone (it's a right thing)

    the Real Aggregated Debt (Private+Public including Pension) is 300% ,

    BUT

    i remember to the Us People that the Total Private+Public Debt of Us is 400% ..

    that is...  there will be a day when the Us will follow the destiny of Italy..

    until now the American Rating Agency+Banks/Speculator have only softly touch the Treasury of their nation..

    it will be only a matters of time..

    sorry : Quite-All the Western Countries are in a long inevitable decline..

     

     

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 11:30 | Link to Comment TJW
    TJW's picture

    Actually, they are raising women's retirement age to be the same as men's. Women have gotten to retire earlier than men, despite the fact that women's life expectency is significantly greater, because women are oppressed by the patriarchy. I know that because I learned it in my women's studies classes.

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 13:07 | Link to Comment Curtis LeMay
    Curtis LeMay's picture
    Here Comes The Piazza Navona Strike Cam

    LOL, well said.

    They can strike until the cows come home:

    = = = = =

    German finmin against "collectivised" euro debt

     

    Aug 13 (Reuters) - Germany remains against any collectivisation of euro zone governments' debt and the creation of common euro bonds is impossible.

    "Without that kind of solidity, there is no foundation for a joint currency" Wolfgang Schaeuble added.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/13/eurozone-bonds-schaeuble-idUSL...

    = = = = =

    Wolfie, there never was that kind of support for a joint currency.

    The frog in charge at the time, not to mention Vichy collaborator, Mitterrand, blackmaled Kohl: Mitterrand said categorically that France wouldn't support German re-unification (after the Berlin wall fell)...unless Germany did away with the D-Mark and signed up for the euro.

    Another shining example of "european solidarity"...

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 20:13 | Link to Comment robertocarlos
    robertocarlos's picture

    The more you eat, the more you shit.

     

    Sat, 08/13/2011 - 23:42 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
    jonjon831983's picture

    hmm interesting reasoning.

    They're screwed!!!!

    Mon, 08/15/2011 - 02:08 | Link to Comment Peter K
    Peter K's picture

    The death throws of socialism is not pretty. But since the US doesn't want to subsidize their pleasant lives anymore (no more Soviet threat), and the Germans don't want to pick up the slack (nien TranferUnion), only the abyss remains:) But there is always China........... Besides most Gucci handbags are produced in Chinese prison camps than anywhere else.

    Sat, 10/15/2011 - 11:28 | Link to Comment falak pema
    falak pema's picture

    the Italians have the greatest attrition, fall-back, structure of the world : the city state. If Italy breaks up they will go there. It survived ten successive imperial threats over a thousand years : Rome, Gothic, Byzantine, Moslem, Norman, German, French, Spaniard, AUstrian, French. Plus that of local Roman church. Land of the tortoise shell.

    today its become regional around those local shell(s). 

    Sat, 10/15/2011 - 12:10 | Link to Comment virgilcaine
    virgilcaine's picture

    Vive.. Vive!

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!