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The Summer Vacation Is Over - As Papandreou Briefs Greece On Its Sorry State, The Riot Police Returns

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Just as Greece's G-Pap, who has proven he has more political lives than a cat, is about to speak at the Thessaloniki trade fair with an update on the economy (which is now contracting at more than 5% compared to the -3.8% forecast in May), the country reminds us that summer vacation is over, and that millions of Greeks have returned from their month long vacations only to find that they still are not getting the socialist benefits they thought may, just may, sneak their way back into their paychecks and early retirement plans. To wit, as AP reports, "Riot police fired tear gas Saturday to disperse anti-austerity protesters armed with flare guns, stones and sticks as clashes broke out in Greece's second-largest city. From taxi drivers to sports fans, thousands of angry citizens were protesting in the northern port of Thessaloniki before the prime minister's annual speech on the economy. The protests came in waves Saturday. Several thousand taxi drivers angry over new licensing reforms chanted anti-government slogans as they marched, many throwing plastic water bottles at riot police guarding the trade fair where Papandreou was to speak later. An estimated 1,500 students and anarchists followed on their heels, while other crowds gathered for separate protests by the barely-solvent country's two biggest labor unions. Even fans of Thessaloniki's soccer club Iraklis turned out to protest." Of course, now that even Italy, after one aborted attempt to paint over the issue, is forced to impose some austerity, Europe has a long, long autumn and winter of protesting to look forward to, which coupled with the logical impact on GDP courtesy of everyone's complete lack of interest in working any more (think of the horror at retiring at 65), means that all European economies will soon grind to a halt... Just as has been predited on these pages over a year ago.

From AP:

On Friday, Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos was forced to deny rumors of impending bankruptcy over the weekend.

 

The default rumors, combined with the sudden resignation of senior European Central Bank official Juergen Stark, created fresh market fears that sent yields on Greek 10-year bonds surging to 21 percent. Greece has the worst credit rating in the world, just shy of default.

 

Venizelos insisted Saturday that the country could still pull through.

 

"Whoever believes that Greece has been broken or has no hope is clearly out of touch with reality," he said. "The two coming months are crucial for the very existence of our country, these are two months whose every day counts as a year in terms of effort."

Funny: a Greek telling others about being "out of touch with reality."

In the meantime, Greece is also telling Europe, which is ready to scuttle bailout #2, to prepare their checkbooks for round #3:

"The clearest message Greece is sending at this point ... is that we are absolutely determined, without taking any momentary political cost into account, to fully meet our obligations to our partners," Venizelos insisted.

 

But he warned that the economy, in its third year of recession, is shrinking at a faster-than-expected pace, further hampering ambitious efforts to cut the budget deficit to 7.5 percent of gross domestic product this year.

 

"The forecast in May was a 3.8 percent contraction, and we are currently above 5 percent," he said.

Sorry Veni: this is where Germany says enough.

Greek-speaking readers can watch G-Pap's address at the link below.

 


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Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

And China flat out states what everyone and their mom know: CHF "peg" won't work.

Time to go long the riot ETF.

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-official-swiss-intervention-wont-...

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:27 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

The Silver Bear Cafe

The IMF, Swiss Franc & the War Against Humanity

this is good too!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Today, not a single solitary currency on the face of the world is backed even 1% by gold or silver, as all nations have inflated their currencies to unprecedented levels in the past 50 years.

 

This is a lie. Venezuela's Bolivar is backed by over 150% gold reserves.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

 

 

And Mexico also still uses silver currency coins.

and actually every county in the world backs it currency by one metal or another. Coins. may it be copper, nickle... it backs up the currency.

 And most laws say: The coins have to have the same value of the metal plus minting costs as the nominal value on the coin.

People seem to forget these things which are remenants of the old gold and silver standards which they forgot to erase.

 

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Perhaps I am the only person who wonders this, but with the US's sky high debt, why isn't it implementing austerity measures?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:33 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

in the works...  probably Ron Paul's role, sell it to the public.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:08 | Link to Comment Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

WRONG.  Paul would begin austerity measures by ending the wars/business subsidies, and closing down overseas bases.  TPTB fully support all those programs as they fill their coffers with hundreds of billions.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:42 | Link to Comment Nate H
Nate H's picture

would kill the system instantly - we need growth to pay off prior claims.  austerity kills growth and makes system crash -this type of system doesnt work well in reverse - kind of like those 'dont drive backwards' signs at rental car lots

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:10 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

isn't the same system in UK and the rest of Europe?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:54 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

austerity = shifting the pain to main street

banksters get bailed out with full bonus -> non-financial elites revolt and tells government they won't pay more taxes -> politicians appease both banksters and non-financial elites by shfting pain to middle class workers with austerity and mass poor are prevented from rioting with credit hand outs

 

tail of the greed snake is long, but who is at the head?

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:29 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Prezactly.   That is what is explained (along with scenarios for doing something about it) to every incoming President.  That is why there have been no changes to the system.   The Tea Party folk seem to sense the right course of action, but it has been closed to them to implement.  And the system will persist until it can't.   Greece is but a warm up game.  The crash here will be spectacular!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:24 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Belarus has no coinage. Only paper. And Visa cards.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:20 | Link to Comment Belarus
Belarus's picture

this is naturally true.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:15 | Link to Comment What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

Agreed, its time to go physical USD.  Coinage is even nice enough not to have that dirty Federal Reserve status stamped on it.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:55 | Link to Comment SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Copper pennies and nickel nickels ftw.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Please expound.

They might have gold in that amount (I kind of doubt that), but they certainly can't exchange their fiat currency for it.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:25 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I second tmosley, Ahmeexnal.

Evidence of Chavez backing his money with gold?  Seems more likely to me that he wants to STEAL the 99 tonnes (whatever) once he gets the gold back in Venezuela, and later gets the heave-ho...

Oro, Putaz!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

tmos, DoChen.  Look at the bottom chart on the link below. That was 2008. Buggo has been buying more since then and gold price has doubled.

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/hewitt071408.html

Might be a good idea to get a Venezuelan girlfriend, just in case.

Updated M0 for Venezuela:

2010:  36339131509.39 VEF  ( http://www.bcv.org.ve/excel/1_6_1i.xls )

Using today's exchange rate: 

36,339,131,509.39 VEF = 8,450,960,816.14 USD

Lets round that up to 8.5 billion USD.

And lets round Venezuelas gold reserves to 400 metric tonnes (Dec. 2010 figures show they had 401.1)

That would be 400,000 kg.

At 1900 per ozt that would be....287% backed by gold?? Any math nobel prize winners out there who can check my numbers?

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:29 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

You Sir.. have a Beautiful Mind.

Thank You!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:29 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ahmeexnal, I will stipulate that your numbers are OK as well as yor math.  And since I just woke up from my Sat. afternoon nap, I am unwilling to do the fact-checking nor arithmetic either.  So good job.  Posting sources for controversial statements is a good idea.

Green.

Valuing OUR gold at say $450 bn (round number) / US M1 (2.1 tn) = 21% (vs. Venezuela's 287%), so there is something to think about in your observation.  (Someone check my math too)

But, Boss Hugo is not going to let that gold sit around and back his currency.  And I saw in your reply further comment that you are measuring gold $ value / Venezuelan M0 (similar to what I just did above).  That is not the same as backing his money with gold.

I also just saw your below note about his ideas for a regional currency (you are correct, it would not work).

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:47 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

bullshit

 

The bolivar fuerte is not backed by gold.  Now does Chavez want to create a currency backed by gold..the answer is yes, however the current bolivar fuerte is not.  He has proposed a regional currency called the sucre to be used by the ALBA(Alianza Bolivariana para los Pueblos de Nuestra America) states and be backed by gold and oil.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

I was referring to gold reserves to circulating money (M0) ratio.

That would compute to around 287% with the latest data available.

Buggo makes a mistake by trying to emulate a mini EU in southcentral America.

If his common currency comes to light, Nicaragua would become the union's Greece in no time at all.

I'm sure he will scrap that common currency idea when the euro crashes down in flames like the Hinderburg.

Did he not study history? What is he thinking? Gran Colombia failed. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Colombia

Oh, that's right...he's a soldier.  Wonder who he takes orders from?

 

ALBA...ALBA...ALBASURERO!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:03 | Link to Comment pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

I can agree with that. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:55 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

you forgot to add "and a happy hyper-inflation to go along with it!"

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:16 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Remids us to go long Kriptonite - time to re-read:

http://www.zerohedge.com/blog/7480 (second article from top, damn tick marks)

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment the tower
the tower's picture

Bullshit. Switzerland was being killed by traders and "investors" looking for a "safe haven" to park their money... The CHF was so rediculously overvalued that the economy was about to tank completely. The Swiss saw this as an attack on their currency and therefore their country, so they counterattacked. Investors lost a lot of money yes, GOOD! Teach you not to bring down a country just because you want to make some money. Did the Swiss citizens lose any savings - as written in the link? No, the Swiss are 100% behind what the SNB did: defend their currency and economy agaist foreign trading attacks!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

We now have a Bizarro Switzerland.

Switzerland WAS the definition of "safe haven" to park money. Their banks touted all potential customers those lines.

But when the going gets tough, the Swiss throw their patrons under the bus.

Just stack pre 1968 halves, ones, twos and fivers -and the odd 1969 five too.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

 Hemlock, Bitchez.   "drinking poison to end thirst," Classic.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:47 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

I find it almost unbelievable that Greece has come to this...

 

"many throwing plastic water bottles at riot police "

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:20 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

China should know. The Yuan:Dollar peg did not work for them either. The Yuan has appreicated from about 8.6:1 now to alomst 6.0 to 1 USD.

Thanks for your link. Always good to get ideas what The Middle Kingdom thinks.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 13:38 | Link to Comment ManufacturedOpinion
ManufacturedOpinion's picture

Didn't work ?!!? It probably worked perfectly. Y'all have to remember:  The elites in China are just like the elites in any other country/central bank.

Do you seriously think that any country prints more money to "help its exports" ???  Get real - the elites in the US just rattled off, oh, say, 20 trillion, and GAVE IT TO THEMSELVES !!

China, whilst "pegging its currency to the USD," simply did the same thing:  How many RMB did they print to make the CHF go from 8.6 to 6.0?  And to whom did it go ??

If it didn't go to their elites (in some form or another) I'll eat your boots. 

And, the stoopid Swissies are getting the same treatment.  Pegging to a declining currency is just money printing behind the scenes.  And, like stock splits, if you don't get your fair share of the new currency, you've just been diluted.

So ... does anybody here really think the Swissies did this just to help their economy?

Puh-leeze.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:24 | Link to Comment dbTX
dbTX's picture

The summer vacation is not over in Greece, it never is. Than's the problem. No work, all vacation makes Greece a broke puppy.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

 

FYI sports fans, Thessaloniki is Greece's only oil import port for all 400K bpd of their consumption.  The refineries are in the north near there, too.  

Gasoline, not oil, is shipped south.  And btw at $114 Brent, they send $16.7 billion this year to the oil exporters.  That's 5% of GDP.

They produce no oil inside Greece.  They did 26K bpd in 1980 and they are past Peak to oblivion now at 2K bpd.

Want to see where the real problem is?  Look at oil.  Always look at oil for everything.  It's 5% of their GDP that flows out of the country.  Their GDP growth is -6% from 2010 Q2.  What a coincidence, eh?

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:28 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Non-sports fan Bearing has his popcorn ready to watch all weekend to see what happens in Europe and how we open Monday.  I am sure it will be one of the most interesting weeks yet.

For financial spectators, we live in wonderful times...  For speculators too.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 17:19 | Link to Comment zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

your information about greek oil infrastructure is worse than wrong, it's completely misleading. 

There is some import , storage, refining, and products distribution infratructure in thessaloniki. but, there are also three reflneries, large storage farms, import terminals, and product distribution points for truck and tanker ship, in the south as well. In drapetsona/aspropyrgo, elefsina, and megara there are about 250kbpd refining capacity total. in thessaloniki, about 100-some. 

greek oil consumption is absurdly high for the economy and the non-affluence of the country. some of this is because of a particularly miserable set of choices by the state to encourage the use of cars (this is one more great way to turn people into slaves, get them working their whole lives to pay for the car industry) over other forms of transport.. but another factor is that much greek refined product is sold on into the balkans, as well as fuels ships which dont necessarily operate in greek waters all the time. I might suspect that as much as half of the probably 100-120 kbpd refined in the north gets distributed into the other balkan countries. There's not another even half-decent refinery until you get to romania.

by the way greece has the highest petrol taxes in all of europe. combined with the low income of the typical working SOB (even for the public sector parasites, most of their salaries are pretty pathetic too. their biggest 'benefit' is that they can't be fired), owning and fuelling cars is a _huge_ percentage of peoples' income. it's downright insane. 

thankfully a lot of the under-30 people are finally starting to realize that they dont need to have a damned car in order to consider themselves humans. but the previous generation considers it to be the mark of civilization up there with western style clothes, the latest iphones, and flush toilets, to set themselves apart from the other miserably fucked-up balkan post-communist clusterfucks across the border. 

did y'all see the extra 4 euros per square meter of building space that giorgakis and his pals just decided to levy on everyone? that's not just on new soace, thats on every existing building in the country. where do they think people will find the money for this shit?

they already have been trying the past couple decades to ensure that greeks live under bridges or in some kind of cardboard and tin shanties by taxing the living shit out of actually building or buying any kind of dwelling. you want to build a house? okay, you will end up paying about 200-250 euros per square meter in taxes and fees and other government horseshit before you even lay a stone or a brick in place. 

sadly this bullshit will just keep on continuing until the whole freaking system crashes down in a pool of its own shit. 

unfortunately, they are determines to drag us all with them, so we will probably all end up swimming in a pool of their shit. 

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I think there's also plenty of blame to go around among the incredibly corrupt oligarchy that profited from lending the Greek government more than it needed (much of which went to the connected banking class and others on top of the food chain), and more than it could afford to pay back.  

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Frozen IcQb
Frozen IcQb's picture
Greece could leave eurozone, Flaherty says Minister repeats plea to G7 colleagues: stick to deficit goals outlined in Toronto   By GORDON ISFELD, Postmedia News September 10, 2011   Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Greece+could+leave+eurozone+Flaherty+says/5381295/story.html#ixzz1XZVhChsU
Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

The spoiled rats doth protest that their profligacy is no more...

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Fuck you. Fuck your children. Fuck your ancestors. Fuck everything you've ever been. Fuck everything you'll ever be. Just wanted to give you a never ending story in a thread that's not disrepectful.

Now get "lost".

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:32 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

are you channeling me?

I mean.. you are good too Bro..

Much Luv to You and Yours..

but, if I might just throw something into the mix..

You are a better person than that.. or me.

so be the Good Natured, Well Spoken Soul You are meant to be, it suits you better..

although I am clipping and pasting that lil rant and I full well intend to use it!

so Thanks! in advance!!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Stelan
Stelan's picture

Nice mouth. Whenever will people understand this type of language is not only disrespectful to others but is a reflection of you and I dare say you would not have the proverbial "olives" to say something like this to a real persons face.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:12 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

No. I would rather carve across the top of his skull. Stick my fingers under the face meat and rip his face off.

There are 2 things that are completely true of me.

1. I will not willing hurt another person.

2. I am a very dangerous person. That will hurt you to not just extreme degrees but extreme degrees squared.

I'ts not important who get's what side of the polarity. What's important is that it is acurately broadcasted. The people who should know they are completely and totally safe around me are used as messengers. If they are feeling endangered or threatened in any way than it's an INTENTIONAL miscomunication.

This is how I've learned how full of shit the universe is and how pointless it is to run and process through their machinery. Because they are more interested in lying than in telling the truth. Setting up division when there's none and creating connection when there should be absolutely nothing.

What I said to him is not disrepect. It's so far beyond disrepect and contempt and hatred that you can't even measure it. The world never really ends but it does "end". And it's very important that people gather too them what belongs near them and kick what they don't need out.  Which the system never has acomplished and never will.

My motivations are so high and so good that I'm awarded a Jupiter pass. Any aggressive confrontational signal from me should be softened 50 percent. I've seen it function. And I've seen it fuck up. We involve ourselves more with this long range communications equipment because it allows the "machinery" of this place more of a chance to work.

And you really have no idea how offensive I can be face to face. Or how kind of considerate I can be. Depending on which is apprporiate.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:29 | Link to Comment oldman
oldman's picture

I have complete respect for rage---I congratulate you for being human. Good luck-----we need you, so be a teeny bit careful also. 

Thanks for the inspiration, Hep                        om

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Wow! I can tell by your anonymous post that you are tough, and scary!  Everyone watch out for "Hephasteus!"

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 13:45 | Link to Comment ManufacturedOpinion
ManufacturedOpinion's picture

You stupid fuck. I used to know another stupid fuck (just like you) that would always talk about "the demon" that lived inside of him.

He would use that stupid line every time he threw a temper tantrum, and people (especially his family) would give him lots of space when he lost his mind like that.

He would talk very tough and mention that "the demon" had no morals, scruples nor conscience.  Then he would threaten everybody in sight.  Later he would talk about "the demon" (and always in the third person, mind you) with great reverence - even fear.

As if he HIMSELF feared "what he could do" if "the demon got out."

Well ... he was just a mental midget that couldn't handle the world on its own terms.  So he had to invent stupid shit and throw it at people.

Those of us that had to put up with his childish bullshit would just laugh at his idiocy.

Kind of like we here at ZeroHedge are doing with YOU.

Ciao, stupid fuck.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm not threatening everybody in sight. I'm tagging fuck faces gang.

You know a guy like that. Sorry lots of people know george bush and dick cheney.

But my point remains. Nothing is forever and you can always create a situation where there's absolutely no fucking way forward. An ending that can't be denied, neglected or miscontrued.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:34 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

The Mexican stand-off continues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c0FN8ajIlY

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:35 | Link to Comment Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

Greek taxi licenses and other closed shops in Greece

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-07-28/striking-greek-taxis-demand-...

...“It’s a Soviet-style economy without the benefits of the coordination and planning,” Yannis Stournaras, director general of the Foundation for Economic and Industrial Research in Athens

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

When Greece implodes (in days/weeks), they will go back to the City States.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:05 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Much better system. If you lived in a fucked up state (Ill, CA, NY), move next door.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

Absolutely right.  If you are a net producer (or just want less local .gov in your hair), then move from those three states.  I would never live in any of those three.  Those who stay there will PAY, PAY, and PAY.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Landrew
Landrew's picture

Yeah right, move to fucking states with NO JOBS how ignorant!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:31 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Illinois and California have HIGHER unemployment rates than their neighbors, no?  NY, I do not know.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:40 | Link to Comment Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Landrew must think that standing half naked on Sunset Blvd. waiting for johns counts as a "job".

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 13:46 | Link to Comment ManufacturedOpinion
ManufacturedOpinion's picture

Or move to COUNTRIES with LOW TAXES.

How brilliant!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:17 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

pomg...

 

"THIS... IS... SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" as financier is kicked into a gaping hole.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 07:49 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Exactly.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Ya mas to Bilderberg member Papanderou.  Plato would be proud, wouldn't he?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:48 | Link to Comment props2009
props2009's picture

http://capital3x.com/?p=1050

Joerg Asmussen, wEBER PRODIGY TO REPLACE STARK

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:55 | Link to Comment Minoan
Minoan's picture

G-Pap:"Uphill walking through an international storm".

Epic.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Minoan
Minoan's picture

"It's our decision to stay in the euro"

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:33 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

You should NEVER lend your TV to a junkie.

The hurrier Greece goes, the behinder they fall!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:02 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Socialism refuses to die. The more they riot, the more they don't work, the more austerity will be required, and the more painful the final resolution.

Greece, please just default and show the rest of Europe how to take their lumps and reboot. We're all going to have to do it shortly.

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:06 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

Really, Greece should hire some Icelandic advisors. Positive experience and they work for fish.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:41 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Green!  For being on fire today.

But, the Greeks might not pay for any advice given to them by Iceland...  And collection for Iceland would be a BITCH if the Greeks were slow in paying.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Gold bug ideals don't make a whole lot of common sense to me. And the gold standard has too many logistic holes to implement in a population of 350 million Americans. I can understand protecting your family from dollar devaluation with gold (at least for a length of time), just like I understand sometimes you might want to buy a gun to protect your family. But this Bernanke bashing and Ron Paul ideology doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Now, here's the catch 22. Gold bugs who want to go back to the gold standard, and hurt most Americans in the process, are jerks (as Charlie Munger has alluded to). If you gold buyers don't believe we will ever go back to the gold standard again (as some of you have stated we won't), then your loading up on gold as an "investment" is basically playing musical chairs, so you hype it up and eventually dump it all on the last guy, a la Ponzi, a la Tulipmania. (How ironic that gold guys complain about the Fed creating too much bubbles, yet the gold lovers are already creating one of the biggest bubbles known to man --precious metals). Of course, you need an excuse for everyone to buy gold...and naturally Bernanke becomes a target as he prints money to try to save an economy. Bernanke could easily reduce the money supply by raising interest rates later on, and somehow that gets lost in the gold buggers' mantras.

When Bernanke raises interest rates, precious metals will fall like a rock. So precious metals bull market is very interest rates based. Forget the gold bugs ideology nonsense.

ECB's Trichet raised rates too soon (during a severe recession), and that resulted in Greece defaulting in quick order and the rest of Europe in dire straits. Gotta thank the gold bugs for that. Trichet probably read too much zerohedge? Raising interest rates too soon on the euro was what truly put them in big trouble right here right now. But gold bugs now divert their attention into something else for why Greece is defaulting and the Eurozone is in trouble. Hey, thanks for nothing.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Gold is  not an "investment", it is insurance.

As a physical gold owner I don't give a shit if we will go back to a gold standard within my lifetime of not. What Bernanke could do is irrelevant, because he never would do it in a meaningful way, with today's debts and ongoing deficits. (At least not before he has inflated away most of the federal debt - and what remaining worth is left to your dollars then?)

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Why, then, do you folks make a big deal about some insurance?  I mean, people buy life insurance all the time and they don't go around talking about life insurance day in and day out like the gold "insurance" buyers.  What gives?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:39 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Imagine no-one else had insurance, and you see a hurricaine coming. No-one else is talking about said hurricaine.  No-one has insurance.  No-one has three days of food and water.  In that type of situation, would you really sit on your hands and not say a word to anyone?

The fact is that the way the world works now, from an insurance perspective, it is as if we were on the gold standard.  If we had a monetary gold standard, we wouldn't talk about gold at all.  It would be like telling people they should try to have more money.  It's a "no duh" sort of thing in that case.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:36 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Methinks Beanieville is as sharp as a brick re:  Au/Ag! :>D

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:30 | Link to Comment Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

You post as if the only country on this planet is the U.S.

You say, "as soon as they raise interest rates Gold will plunge". How soon will this happen?. For people to run back into Dollars, if and when interest rates rise, there will have to be faith in the currency itself. If M2 continues to increase and they raise rates, do you still think there will be a stampede out of Gold ? Also what about all the money that will "have been printed" when they raise rates ? You make it sound as if, when they raise rates all the excess currency that is in circulation and all the debts/CDO's/CDS's will just disappear. How will the present debt be maintained through interest payments, if they shrink the available excess\

Can you address these items specifically ?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:35 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

beanieville misses the point completely.

Gold is insurance and a wealth protection vehicle, the best in town.  EVERYONE should own some physical gold.

A Gold Standard would not work anyway. It too gets corrupted by the usual suspects (banks).  Just let the gold be free to do its thing:

fofoa.blogspot.com

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment chubbar
chubbar's picture

I can't speak for the rest of the guys here that own gold but I bought mine because this monetary debt based system is imploding, period. In other words it is in failure mode.

Let bernanke raise rates. We owe over 14 Trillion in debt. For every 1% that interest rates rise the debt payment increases over 140 Billion. In other words we are going to default and when that happens the whole world starts to crash as the dollar is the reserve currency. You think gold is going down when the default occurs?

I'm sorry you see this as some sort of ploy by the gold bugs but I can assure you that at least in my case it is an attempt to transfer wealth (my current wealth) to the next monetary system.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:38 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1860 and green

Let The Bernank raise rates!  Let the CME eliminate margins (that is, 100% cash for gold).  Bring it on.  This time, higher rates will NOT destroy gold.

Gold will protect you.  And you do not have to have very much.  You do NOT have to be at the All Inn.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:44 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Really?  Is 14 trillion that big?  Remember that now an average engineer makes $90k, whereas 20 years ago they made $30k.  So wages have kept up with inflation via the money supply.  That also means $14 trillion today has the equivalent buying power of $5 trillion 20 years ago.  So we owe them $14 trillion but it can only buy $5 trillion worth of stuff from 20 years ago.  Try to put inflation in perspective.  That's why raising the debt ceiling makes sense.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Look at you, using all the same arguments that were discredited last night.  You have a serious learning disability, or you are a disengenuous troll.

Either way, GTFO.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:54 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

I couldn't find the post, so have no idea what you said.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:11 | Link to Comment DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

I've never been an average engineer.  In 1980 I made 100k and it went up from there, especially after I started a business that did telecom product development that lets all the jerk women run around with a box slapped against their ear while they drive poorly and are impolite to the rest of the public.  Retired at age 50 (made 10 million that last year), now 58.  I have gold, guns, a farm, and have been 100% off the grid since 1982 except for joyriding gasoline.  We don't need to develop alt energy - it's there, just quit being a loser and buy the right stuff.  Silicon can be the new gold, it is for me -- and PV panels (Solarex, now owned by BP) I bought in 1980 still meet specs, unlike the zoomie new thin film tech that fails in months in the real world.  Developing alt energy is as much a scam as Bushie pushing hydrogen for autos -- a way to keep you in the prison forever as it will never be "Ready" for those types.  Until they've got the last oil dollar that is.  Note my solar panels were made by an oil company.

Man up, grow a pair, and pay upfront -- it's not that the stuff isn't there, it's that you can't rent it like you do output from a coal fired plant -- while you whine about the rent-seekers and their pollution and the deaths "they" cause.  They don't burn coal for fun, they do it because you pay them to.

I'm sick of all this conspiracy about "them".  I've worked among "them".  They aren't that smart, they can't keep secrets as well as the tinfoil hat types think, and there's plenty of evidence of both -- all you have to do is look.  The main trick of the devil is convincing you he doesn't exist -- or that he's working through you.  He is.  You're "them".  Back out of the prison, man up, "assume authority" and see for yourself.

When you are free, half the world fears you -- projection that since you can or will do anything, you'd do what they ignorantly imagine.  Why do you think Pelosi doesn't want me to own a .50BMG? -- because she knows what she would do with one.  Yet I own one and don't do that kind of thing.

The other half admire you, but only from a distance, and using projection again, want you to live some other fantasy of theirs, and frankly try to force it on you.  As an ex-rock-star -- that almost got me killed with the free drugs, the diseased women, the all night parties.  People hounding you, wanting to be seen with you as they think that even if they couldn't get through the gate on their own, your coattails will suffice.  Bah.

You don't have to fall for any of it.  Free yourself, no one else can, and quit blaming it all on "them".  Go look in the mirror instead and do something about what you see.

Failure to do so is the cause of nearly all of our troubles, at the root.  Personal responsibility is where it's at, and being able to honestly like what you see in the mirror is better than any material thing there is by far.  But you have to earn it, you can't cheat it out of the universe like you can with gold/stawks/forex.

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:40 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

An engineer rock-star.   Well, you've had quite a life there.   I see nothing wrong with your thesis in any case.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Cute story. You're a conforming unconformist. Who gave them what they wanted and are now someohow free.

Let me break this down to you. This is all about forced truth. It's going to come down to a few simple axis of action. A bunch of fucktards wanting to perptuate a lie with you strapped in a chair telling them there are four lights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_eSwq1ewsU

So as people have said be careful to me. Fuck that. I'm a death seaker. I crave it. I want it I need it. Mosley can make fun of me for it but it's what's coming. And people can talk about about the need for calm discourse on 9/11 but it's going to come down to force. It's already happening. People vomitting in their mouth when they see main stream media dripple this shit out like fucking diahrea. So talk about your freedom and ability to man up as much as you like. But you are comfortable, you are rich and you got it by saying there are three lights.

And this scene is far more relevant to you than you can imagine. There's a been a battle. The stupid fucking phones you spent your life making destroyed the enterprise. Sales are great. The opposition is burning in space. The truth is you got paid millions to make something so that people could lie about how good the sales are going. 711,000 cable subscibers disappeared in 2010. Millions of phone subscriptions gone. People refusing to even turn on their fucking tv.

I'm an engineer too. I didn't make millions. Because there's 4 goddamn lights. Got it. And I don't work for assholes.

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

So wages have kept up with inflation via the money supply.

So every time Benanke or any banker creates a dollar out of thin air (in form of debt/fractional reserve banking) I get a pay raise????  LMFAOROTF!  How I wish!

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:45 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

you are wrong about one thing...a good engineer with experience in manufacturing can make 100+bonus+benefits....

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:43 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Spam, spam, spam and more spam.

Lefty statist douchebag troll.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:50 | Link to Comment Enceladus
Enceladus's picture

You seem to be fighting the last war. This isn't 1980 and gold standard or not your comments above betray your rearview looking stance. Golly, I'm sure The Bernak is doing God's work and so called gold bugs are just malining his character and scapegoating the FED by buying gold and silver, in the interest of instituting a gold standard. Most American's have hurt themselves, by not availing themselves of the opportunity to learn how and in what to invest! What 'we' (golders) want is a standard built with and on integrety. So absent of that we settle for natures currency i.e. hard assets. And since all the worlds a ponzi you have a choice you can pick the Bernak's resource the Dollar or Gold. I pick Gold and everyday I thank God that people like you exist to soak up my ever expanding supply of fiat. Now while you dislodge Bernakes dick from your throat, I will explain to you why interest rates will have a much much smaller effect on gold than you will believe.

Interest rates will be low for a time, and will only rise from fiat printing induced inflation. This will result in a SUPERstagHYPERflationary period. 

1) Depression(deflation) (Stocks go way down // Bond, Gold go up from FEAR!!) ----> 2) Your Savior The Bernak prints $$$ (Food, Oil, Gold, Stocks go up from GREED and FEAR!) ---->3) Inflation or HYPER inflation without JOBS (more FEAR!!) ---> 4) Interest rates hike/spike (to control inflation) ---> 5) 95 Trillion Credit market destroyed by Duration risk!!(A Lot of FEAR!!!) 6) System failure All fiat moves to real assets including a favorite from the last 6,000 year... GOLD!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bond_market  

http://www.investorwords.com/1602/duration.html

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

Bernanke will not raise interest rates - he is terrified of them coming up even a tiny bit.

If you want to raise interest rates and create positive real interest rates, you will need to raise them above real inflation (not unicorn based CPI inflation) 2-3%.

So please, show me the person that is willing to raise interest rates from 0% to 12-13% (using, say shadowstats measure of inflation).  That will crater the economy.  People have shown they have no interest in any type of short term pain for longer term gain.

The Titanic has hit an iceberg, and you're criticizing the people grabbing the life preservers, because you think they should believe that the Captain is going to fix the hole.  Good luck with that.

Blaming Trichet's move on gold bugs is truly idiotic.  You obviously haven't heard of WWII or Weimar.

I'm treating you with kid gloves, because you seem like one of those pseudo informed people that populate the world, waking up from your impossible, unicorn based reality of debts that don't matter, and the status quo to infinity and beyond.  No doubt the shock of a little reality has you pissed off because you can't go back to sleep now.

So quit being a baby and figure out whether you're going down with the ship or getting in the lifeboat - you little bitch.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:44 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

His profiles shows he's been here over 2 years.   Proof that IQ is really a quotient.   100 is average, and we have one amongst us.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:19 | Link to Comment What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

A "bubble" that has last over 2000 years.  Obviously, this thing is overdue to pop!  

Paper notes are the only sound investment left in this "bubble" world we live in.  That, or promises to pay you paper notes well into the future.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:32 | Link to Comment oldman
oldman's picture

Hey ruf, ruf!

miaow, miaow= red

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 13:50 | Link to Comment ManufacturedOpinion
ManufacturedOpinion's picture

"Bernanke becomes a target as he prints money to try to save an economy ... "

Now, come on.  You're not really THAT stupid, are you ??

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:15 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Why doesn't the United States have an austerity plan?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Yes we should.  We should stop all imports of oil and focus on alternative energy.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:22 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

. . . and starve about 70% of the population, after which alternative energy may suffice to run the electric wall clocks for the 30% remaining, until winter comes and kills off more.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:29 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Interesting you say starve 70% of population.  That's what moving to the gold standard does!  95% will be untouchable poor during the transition.  

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:38 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I have no interest in gold.

Only oil, the lifeblood of civilization.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:45 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

>implying that 95% of people don't have ANY gold.

You do realize that in the event of a gold standard, the standard wedding band would be worth at least a year's expenses, right?

You should also realize that wealth lies in production, not in some useless lump of metal.  People who own gold now might be able to buy a bunch of stuff with it, but they can only buy it once.  This is as opposed to the oligarchs and governments we have now, who can appropriate any percentage of the economy they like merely by printing.

This was explained to you yesterday, but here you are with this shit agian.  I think you might have a learning disability.  That or you are the newest in a long line of trolls here to repeat dumbassed anti-PM arguments ad nauseum in the hopes of getting someone to sell for "some reason".  I wonder what your motive is?  Why do you hate gold, and the people who seek to own it so much?  

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:46 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Spain has implemented green and alternative energy programs to great effect. That's the reason they have the worlds highest unemployment and are bankrupt. That's the reason 70% of the population will starve. Not only that innovative people will develop alternative ways to power farm equipment, which will produce vast amounts of pollution as a consequence.

Construction of a Simplified Wood Gas Generator for Fueling Internal Combustion Engines in a Petroleum emergency

 

Heavy Oil Engines

 

Using coconut oil as an engine fuel

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:30 | Link to Comment KingdomKum
KingdomKum's picture

that's what the FEMA camps are for idiot

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:40 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

At this point ALL of the "alternative energy" or "green energy" ideas I have seen discussed by people I have confidence in, say the return on investment is low or even negative.

Solyndra is Exhibit 1.

Ethanol is Exhibit 2.

In 30 seconds I could come up with more.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Nonsense.  That is true with any new field -- the return on investment will seem low at first.  It was true with oil...until the govt subsidized it to the hilt.  Even though the industry is now immensely profitable, it still requires subsidies of $2 trillion per year when you consider the true cost of oil (wars, health, environment cleanup).  

If they give alternative energy the same courtesy and financial support at the beginning, alternative energy will be far far cheaper than conventional energy, in short order.  In Australia, solar pv has already reached grid parity, right now right here.  Now that was fast!  And green energy doen't even get that much subsidies. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:15 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Maybe, maybe in the Australian deserts they can get solar efficient enough to add to the grid (after taking into account manufacturing problems, environmental consequencwes of solar cell production, subsidies, etc.).

But, I have read that even the NUMBERS (more accurately, the properties of the materials) don't add up for ANY of the green technologies I have looked at.

Non expert here though.  I have LOOKED at finding a company's shares who could do wind or solar right.  Nope.  All DOWN, even solar leader FSLR is WAY off (over 50%) its high.

EDIT:

tmosley is a scientist who is more familiar with properties of materials that I am.  He would be a great one to expound on how viable green techs are re materials science.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:52 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

You need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. You can not legislate the laws of thermodynamics. Oil, coal, and nuclear are energy dense. Ethanol is a crewel joke consuming more energy in it's production than it produces when used as a fuel. All the other so called alternative energy proposals are just as bad or worse.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:19 | Link to Comment beanieville
beanieville's picture

Yes, the experts said there was absolutely no use for a computer, that was 40 years ago.  Be careful who you listen to, and most definitely be careful of the experts who can only see today and unable to project to the future.

Those experts of 40 years ago hopefully they're still around and somebody slaps them down for their "expertise".

 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:45 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Which experts, specifically?

 

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 13:54 | Link to Comment ManufacturedOpinion
ManufacturedOpinion's picture

Why, all the posters here on ZH, of course !!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:13 | Link to Comment Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

Agree that ethanol is dumb, but dude has a good point on existing subsidies for non-renewable energy.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

It's not nonsense.  What you say is true in the general case.  But you are omitting important specifics.

The important specific in this case is the energy density of oil.  It is truly impressive.  Think of how much work is done by an engine on a single gallon of gasoline.  Oil was something we just came along and found, sitting in the ground, literally a foot beneath the soil.  The old show with the hillbilly shooting at some food and hitting oil (Beverly Hillbillies) is reality - it was that easy to get at most of the oil, and thus, Energy Return On Energy Invested, was also truly high for this natural bounty.

So it is very hard to come up with something that can compete with the former abundance, energy density, and ease of extraction as oil.  There's a lot of catchup to do.

The only thing that comes close is nuclear Fission energy, which we have been working at (we == the world, not the US) for a good 5 decades now.  It's the only thing that offers decent energy density (1 pellet of uranium = many gallons of gas...I forget the stat here).  The issue with fission is the US has not kept up with technology, having many Fukushima type reactors in a state of decay.  Also, if we truly calculate the costs, with a timeline of 10,000 years disposal for the waste, it may not be as cost effective as we first thought (another type of Ponzi scheme).

So new energy sources will require massive amounts of investment and very out of the box thinking.  All options currently on the table are very low in energy density or unicorns.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:28 | Link to Comment Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Only real alternative which *may* work in long run is EU funded fusion-plant technology.
But it is in early stages, so 50 years sound just about right, unless miracle breakthrough happens.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:10 | Link to Comment Broomer
Broomer's picture

And that's the problem with fusion. Since 1950 the scientists always give the same reply:

"We will have a reactor working in 50 years, if you give us another trillion dollars."

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

Because of election planning.  But don't worry, the plan is in a drawer somewhere.  It's coming in 2013, along with Greek style riots.  Get ready for Tea Party Contagion.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:22 | Link to Comment Landrew
Landrew's picture

You don't think the depression we are in is enough?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:21 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Cos the FED has declared that "depression" is Unamerican activity #1. It must be banned from all media and sent to Switzerland as toxic financial waste.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:09 | Link to Comment kumquatsunite
kumquatsunite's picture

Austerity plan is in the beginning stages; you must have missed the news that Michigan's governor has signed a plan limiting welfare to four years under the aegis that welfare is to be a "transitional" mode rather than a lifetime mode. Further austerity, post office downsizing as are (in particular) other state government agencies with federal agencies to follow once republican president Rick Perry is elected. The "new new" is austerity as a return to the "normal" with "normal" being the standard of living of thirty years ago. This is AKA self-reliance and personal responsibility. Good luck with that my little kumquats!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:51 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

So as I understand the solution is sell stocks to recap banks, give free land to youth and search for oil in the Med...yea that will work.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Tuffmug
Tuffmug's picture

Tyler,

Enough of the "Greeks are lazy fucks and deserve screwing!" theme. They are just victims further along than we are in the big political con of " I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you.".

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I agree. Only the Greeks can un-fuck Greece.

What do you think they'll do?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 23:09 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

Sure, because nothing says dependent statist like tax evasion.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:11 | Link to Comment oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

What amazes me.  The Austrians.  If they could just get workers to forgo wages, benefits,  the gods would bless.  Robots will be so much less demanding.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 23:11 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

I am often told (by racist skinhead assholes) that negro slaves loved their masters and enjoyed the physical work so much they sang spirituals to praise them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H2W1lK7P-I

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:13 | Link to Comment MS7
MS7's picture

Are these some of the "luxuries" that Greeks are expected to do without? 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/05/greece-healthcare-brink-cata...

How unbelievable is the story line that innocent Germany is giving money to Greeks to go on vacation? They're just too nice. Ha, ha, ha, ha... I guess there is something satisfying in explanations that make use of a number of stereotypes.

The one thing I will agree with you on-- G-Pap has more lives than a cat. That is easy to do when you have the US and others backing you. How can the Greek people compete with that? Anyway, the guy was born in the US and is half-American. I don't know how long he lived here but he went to college in the US too. He speaks the language of the Americans and is more than happy to sell out the people, as is his party that only pretended to be socialist. They have no ideology, unless corruption is an ideology.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:48 | Link to Comment GtownSLV
GtownSLV's picture

Article just out that Italy at 120% debt is looking for more austerity as their 10 year jumped big Friday. Greek default, breaks Italy, breaks Eurozone whole...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Italy-flags-potential-for-apf-918496164.ht...

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:02 | Link to Comment Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Their all tied together like mountain climbers. Greece is hanging over the edge, Italy just lost it's footing, and they are going to pull the others over the cliff with them. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:56 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

except Germany has a spatha knife in hand waiting to feel that tug on the line. as soon as it does, they will cut them all loose.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:39 | Link to Comment Shoegazer
Shoegazer's picture

I just love watching "Anarchists" flip their shit when governments try to downsize.  You would think they would be thrilled.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment nah
nah's picture

its trippy how the elite as so bad with money or accounting or management or whatever

.

i totally get we owe them... totally...

.

cash and stuff

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:19 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

fed loses to djuko in five after being 5/3, 40/15 two match points.

What will this do for greece? Maybe they will ask Djuko to take over their economy.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:23 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Ten years after...have we learned anything?

Here is an excellent video by AE for 9/11 truth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Pass this around folks and especially send it to those who still think some clown in a cave and 19 guys with box cutters outsmarted our 400 billion dollar NORAD defense system.

Also, a big question to ask them is, if fires bring down buildings at the speed of gravity, why doesn't my BBQ or fireplace grill come crashing down at the speed of gravity when lit and on fire for hours and hours?

Who was responsible for 9/11?

http://republicbroadcasting.org/?p=7058

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Judge Holden
Judge Holden's picture

Here's an excellent one by the Titanic truth movement as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:03 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Those cops protecting the scum running the country are traitors.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:58 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You're just jealous that your accounts recievable department doesn't have bullet proof vests and guns.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:13 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Poopy-doo is in deep doo-doo since there is no rational basis for the benefit check to begin with. The USA realized as did Wall Street "no Wall Street means no benefit check." Uncle Sam cut the 750...how does Tom Keene express it?...LARGE "in order to keep Wall Street from keeping those checks flowing." Amazing and something..."logistically" i didn't think was possible at the time. I then opined rather....expressionistly...that "that would now bankrupt the country" as it followed up by "extraordinary trillions" thereafter. Those actually "banking" on said collapse (and it should be note THE BANKS THEMSELVES WERE NOT!) have been proven absolutely wrong...and obviously we are all the better for it as a nation, people, carbon-unit, zaphrob-beeblebrop. Now given the "lack of collapse" it's time for Uncle Sam to "do his thing." This can consist of a multi-tude of things but will consist first and foremost with attacking those who attack its largessednees with the utmost vigilance. Taking 500 million from the Department of Energy...ILLEGALY IF IT IS TRUE i might add...comes to mind. (These folks are responsible for safe-guarding Russia's nuclear aresenal i might add--and have been for decades--and if you're interested "he's called" Senator Lugar from the mighty State of Indiana.) Simply put "Greece isn't at stage one" here--and in fact is at the the stage where I thought we were suppose to fail but didn't: in the initial bailout which never really materialized. Which of course in my view only goes to show "how phucking hard it is to do this bailout thingy in the first place!" Now give Hank Paulson's Treasury a Nobel Prize PLEAAASSSE!!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:27 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

20 Quotes From European Leaders That Prove That They Know That The Financial System In Europe Is Doomed

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archi...

Warning!!!!  Read "WITH" Caution!!!!!!

#2 Stephane Deo, Paul Donovan, and Larry Hatheway of Swiss banking giant UBS: "Under the current structure and with the current membership, the euro does not work. Either the current structure will have to change, or the current membership will have to change."

#5 Deutsche Bank CEO Josef Ackerman: "It is an open secret that numerous European banks would not survive having to revalue sovereign debt held on the banking book at market levels."

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:44 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

I am of the opinion that Ouzo is better-suited to use in Molotovs than consumption by humans.

Viva Loukanikos!

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment goat
goat's picture

At least we will get to see riot dog again.  I can tolerate a lot of Greek austerity (non-me austerity) for another good riot dog montage on you-tube.

Mon, 09/12/2011 - 14:47 | Link to Comment johnjb32
johnjb32's picture

Between the Greeks and the Irish, I suspect that we're seeing a kind of sick experiment to see how far a people will allow themselves to be pushed before the violence shuts things down. -- I just heard a blip on CNBC saying that new (additional) drastic property taxes to enforce austerity and going to added directly to Greek power bills. There's no way out. Either pay up or we shut off your power... Now that's oppression. -- Michael C. Ruppert

http://www.collapsenet.com/154.html

Tue, 09/13/2011 - 22:11 | Link to Comment moxia19
moxia19's picture

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