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The Euro Ponzi needs fresh meat!
How much gold does Croatia have?
as many kilos as there are politicians in the room listening to the most soundest guy on the floor.
Simply ridiculous this unelected European parlament.
Sadly so true.... Not a single guy or woman in The euro parlment is actually elected.... Democracy.... Yeah..... And we suckers take it up the ass because we never "waisted" 5 minutes thinking about it.... And yet they suck our money out, send it to the oliarchs and they all do it for a 0,00001% commision fee which is enough for them to sell everybody out.
Firing squad.... Good
I love Nigel Farage, he must really piss off all the Eurocrat assholes who like to pretend they are nobility.
did you look at all the empty chairs in this unelected parlament? Each of them is earning north of USD 150'000 but is not even present to listen to Nigel?
What a big flying fucking circus to put in Monty Pythons,s worde
What a fucking joke.. They are all out doing hookers and blow.. Just like our prostitutes in DC.. Good fucking Jesus in heaven do we need a hanging party something fierce..
Unelected parliament ?
You think they'd ever appoint Farage ?
They are elected.
Shame on you Sudden Debt.
Nigel Farage is a Member of the European Parliament and won his seat in the 1999 European Parliament Election.
Perhaps you meant the European Commission?
I like the way you think. There's an ancient Persian proverb that says; "you have no problems, buy a goat". Because, then you see, you'll have plenty of problems. This reminds me of the European Parliament; don't have enough problems?; make a whole nother government to make rules and taxes for you; then you'll have plenty of problems.
LOL.... No elections for EU MEPs?
SD - clueless as always.
But at least he's making a lot of noise!
In most countries in the EU under proportional representation you don't vote for the MEP. You vote for the party. The MEPs are therefore not elected, the parties are elected and the MEPs are appointed. The MEPs represent the parties, not the voters.
In most Continental EuroCountries voting is a hybrid in "voting for a Party" and "having a preference in the Party list". So to get elected, you have to bring forth your party first and get more votes than your collegues in the same list second.
Personally (and I am not alone, this is a discussion we are having since 1848 here in Europe) I think this is better than the "first-around-the-post" direct personal vote - because it gives you a broader range of several parties having to form coalitions.
But of course this gets easily misrepresented by people that are not familiar with the system.
Pros and cons really.
The party list system can be easily corrupted. Individuals can effectively be imposed by parties on the public especially in the very large European Constituencies.
That said, Farage would not have been elected if it weren't for AV and the Party List system (though I'm not so sure that would necessarily be the case if there were a First past the post election tomorrow)
Of course, Pro and Cons, and all parties can be corrupted
my preference (and not only mine) for the "continental system" (Israel has it too, by the way) is that the "shelf life" of parties is shorter - I had the pleasure to witness how the Italian Communist Party went from 33% electoral votes to 3% and then disbanded, to give birth to new parties (on the left, of course, including the post-communist Italian President Napolitano).
And yes, Nigel would probably not be in any Parliament with a first-around-the-post system... pro or cons? ;-)
Personally, I prefer a hybrid system like the late Lord Jenkins' proposed AV+ system (First Past the Post with proportional "top up") which guarentees direct representation through an elected MP and a degree of proportionality.
Of course it'll be said that the electorate are too stupid to understand it.
I think it's fair to point out as one of the "cons" that it's not only parties that have a shorter "shelf life", the two examples you give, Israel and Italy, clearly illustrate that Governments too have a shorter "shelf life" and are notoriously unstable in comparison to Govs elected under FPTP.
None, our central banker of the year sold it in 2002 - all of it at bottom and become central banker of the year for Central Eastern Europe
Sounds serious. They must be threatenin' to take out their olympic hoops team.
Love the man, but I sure hope he wears Kevlar underneath that vest.
My thoughts exactly. He articulates clearly this vast, unaccountable centralization, where the rights of the individual, on a local level, will be steamrolled over.
It is sad that there is such a concentration of power mad sociopathic politicians who wish to rule us. These gluttonous pigs just see us as numbers and masses to be manipulated in their twisted power game "for our own good."
For those who act as "useful idiots" - cheerleading for these monsters - do you realize they do not give a damn about you or your family - and worse you are simply a pawn in their game to bolster their own personal power. Your life, death or personal misery in this soul-crushing system means nothing to them at all.
He survived a plane crash...he's bulletproof.
nobody is bullet proof and with an unelected police force, Interpol, mandated by nobody even remotely democratic, nobody in Europe is safe either
we can do one thing to stop the rot... Stop paying your taxes (and funding them and our own suppression)
Zero Tax = Zero Govt
kick the Commies where it hurts, in their budgets
It's like the Trading Places idea; to hurt the Mortimers most they made them poor.
It is remarkable, he notes in an undeniably intelligent-sounding English accent,
I could listen to this guy debate for hours!! And to me, he even makes sense!!
Spent my summer vacation in Croatia. This is all true.
Really, you can testify that this is "all true" after one summer vacation?
The people echoed the sentiment of what he said. They are scared for their independence and economy. Only the political class has anything to gain and the opposition is nil.
"the opposition is nil"
I still don't understand Nigel's popularity here in ZH
Oh, junking? If there is no opposition, only fears and concerns? You have high standards of democracy, Eh? Buhuuuu
Money talks. And in Europe people still believe the bankers have it. Croatia at least
'I still don't understand Nigel's popularity here in ZH'
Put it this way: Farage is to Europe, what Paul is to the States.
No way, Paul is a giant, Farage is a midget.
The first tells you only part of the truth,
The second only half-truths.
Do go on.
Another day, ok?
OK, OK, let's just go through this little speech Nigel Farage gives for a few of his half-truth nuggets:
- "you are bribing Croatia" (well, it does remind me how Texas joined the US a bit) to join with a 300 m "prejoin package" and 1 million EUR for blatant propaganda - ok, ok, let's call it so, I concede. "Bribing" a country is usually called a treaty between sovereigns, but ok.
- "cleverly, you already have given highly paid jobs to the Croatian Elite in the EU Parliament" - now if this is not a slight misrepresentation! The same job as he has, by the way, he tries to give the impression the Croatians were "given" something by the EU and, as usual, he tries to give the impression that nobody in Brussel is "elected", as usual.
- "just to show how well they'll be - the ruling class will be...". Again, he portraits Croatia as an undemocratic country with a "ruling class"
- "you have EU flags flying all over the country". Of course, the EU puts them there, the Croatians have nothing to say in the matter?
- "you have some willing helpers, because the old communists are still there" here again he portraits Croatia as undemocratic because some parties are not the way he likes them (this ties with his hatred for Barroso for his communist past) as if in Continental Europe we would not have communists, ex-communists and post-communists elected by the people) "they all hold all the positions of power" again, this is called a democratic election, Mr. Farage, some people like their something-communist parties.
- "there is no free press in Croatia" this is a good one, my Croatian friends particularly liked this (Nigel, there is the slightly little matter with language involved, you know, not everybody expresses their political views in English) on their blogs
- "money has been offered if someone finds any Croatian News against joining the EU, there is no debate" - this is simply ridiculous, in Croatia you'll find those who want to join at every corner - there is nearly no opposition to it because it's perceived as a good deal.
- "…and if they vote to join the EU…" So, there it is. He is missing the debate in Croatia but at the end he has somehow to smuggle the little detail that it is a decision of Croatia to join the EU - or to leave it afterwards.
So again, the Sovereign Country called Republic of Croatia (governed by a parliamentary system elected freely by the people, where the biggest parties are Christian Democrats and Social Democrats in a multi-party arrangement) is since years on the "waiting list" to join the EU, which still is a Club of Sovereign States free to leave it (hint, Nigel, get the UK out of it, nobody will stop you here, you just have to convince your own fellow countrymen). And he hates it. It spoils his idea that everybody should want to leave instead of join the EU. He calls them communist, he calls them undemocratic, he just stops short of calling them idiots (this is more or less reserved for Belgians).
he is a demagogue, catering to the tastes and prejudices of his British EuroSkeptic Electors (which are not a majority), that's all
Croatians want to join the EU because they are promised resultant prosperity by the media and politicians--prosperity they are not going to get--as has happened in every country they enslaved. They are otherwise wholly unfamiliar with the functioning of the European Union.
The rest of your post is utter drivel.
Enslaved? Who? The UK? Finland?
Want because they are ignorant or stupid? Like who?
Anyone not able to see the huge difference between Farage and Paul should abstain from voting, as they will almost invariably make mistake of giving power to people who do not deserve that position.
"According to the newest polls (end of July 2011) conducted by the Ipsos-Puls agency, 82% of Croatian citizens would vote at the referendum, with 60% voting in favor of the EU, 31% against and only 6% of those undecided."
another little detail Nigel does not mention while I think it is noteworthy:
Although it has completed the negotiations, Croatia will have to wait until 2013 before formally becoming a member because the parliaments of all 27 EU states must ratify its accession treaty.
just savor it. every bloody elected parliament of 27 sovereign countries has to find a majority vote saying: "yes, Croatia, you may join the EU".
what will Nigel say if the British Parliament says yes? Oh, I forgot, he speaks in the "unelected" EU parliament... to other "unelecteds"?
Here's the thing, Ghordius - 'democracy' is not synonymous with freedom.
In the West, 'democracy' means the right to vote in 'representatives' every 3-6 years. People compare this with despotisms where they have no say in who rules them, and obviously, democracy (usually) leads to better outcomes for the majority. People clearly have more control over their lives in democracies. So democracy has come to mean all things good in the electorates' minds... and this view is pounded into their heads whenever they switch on the radio or TV or pick up a newspaper.
But if your voter was asked, "which is more democratic - a situation where (say) you and your immediate neighbours decide whether to spend your money re-facing your local roads, or everyone in the entire county votes every 3-6 years for people (whom they've almost certainly never met or spent any time with) who will have the power to make this decision... and this 'representative' will probably choose to re-surface your roads, whether they need it or not, because their step-brother owns an asphalt company, and none of the costs will be coming out of his own pockets? They will look confused... because, you know, democracy = freedom, and so the more democracy we have (ie, more people voting) surely means more freedom.. and yet, here they can clearly see that 'more' democracy clearly doesn't lead to more control over their own lives.
The more people who have a say over how you live your life, the less freedom you have... unless, of course, you are joining a larger polity that has legislated more freedoms into their legal system than the one you currently live under. Can you categorically say this is the case with every country joining the EU? I doubt it.
I see your point and I like what you write - the original argument though was that some of our American Cousins think that Farage is the European Ron Paul and that the Croatian are being "bribed" and "forced" to join the EU club.
No, it's not
(that's at least as much of an argument as you have presented)
You are mistaking the host for the parasite.
C'mon. We are just a bunch of ignorant Americans thirsty for knowledge. Enlighten us. Opposing views are always welcome. Besides, as you mention, Nigel is quite popular on ZH. So lay it on us, bro. What do you know that we are missing?
thanks for the socratic approach
what would the US opinion of PuertoRico joining the Union as full state be?
you'd be less ignorant if you get to understand some basic things.
that there's an overall majority consensus amongst european voters that EU is a good thing/idea. despite the EU being largely used by failed local politicians as a an easy scapegoat for their failed local policies.
that EU has always had as is ultimate goal a political union. (all know it except UK which role has always been that of trying to prevent that from happening)
that an EU breakup is the most improbable thing to happen, thus many other things will likely happen before that.
that the death of the € would be pure masochism on the eurozone part. such is the amount of negatives that the few positives literally vanish. that would currently be also masochism for the entire financial world and I think we all saw the effect yesterday.
that if there is a lack of democratic governance in the EU institutions it is not because the EU being inherently undemocratic but because the single state members are reluctant to give up more sovereignity. but they will be forced to do it (mainly in the eurozone) to face the crisis.
once you put all these things together you can easily see why the effect of the global crisis will be that of an acceleration of the process of integration.
p.s. having said this, you all convinced me. and now I hope your hero Farage to succeed in getting England out of the EU. I promise I'll help in the process if I can. someone should point to some petition addressed to "UK government" so I can sign in solidariety.
Are vermin like you getting paid or doing this out of sheer self-hatred and stupidity?
Edit: Sorry, on second thought you are probably trolling.
Do you live in the EZ or know Croatians? Just asking...
Usually, when the ad hominem come out it means you've won the argument, so thanks
what I mean is that the host(s) are the USA, the EU, the first world, including a lot of the infrastructure including for example the ECB and of course the peoples.
the parasite is a bit more complex. It's all what profits from the imperial system. To generalize, all that is bigger than what would be if we would not have this huge imperial profits and sweet deals. The MegaCorps, the MegaBanks, the Military-Industrial Complex, etc. etc.
And no, there are no easy solutions to this.
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