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Santelli vs Liesman Cage Match: TARP, Counterfactual Armageddon Edition

Tyler Durden's picture


We heard it then and we will hear it again (soon we suspect) that unless some huge liquidating bailout event occurs, the world will no longer exist as we know it, iPads will no longer toast pop-tarts, and American Idol will cease to be. The M.A.D. argument remains the go-to move in the government's playbook and Rick Santelli jousts with Steve Liesman (and new glad-man Scott Wapner) in this heated exchange over the reality of TARP's saving the world (from what) and the precedents this sets going forward.



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Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:40 | 2276754 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Lies-Man is the Fed's/Mafia's consigliere!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:46 | 2276781 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Mr Liesman is one of the country's most esteemed economists.  Why he is wasting time arguing with an unwashed idiot like Santelli is beyond me.

If Santelli ever gets in my face, I would just show my credentials including my Nobel Prize and ask him how dare he challenge me.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:50 | 2276796 Fluffybunny
Fluffybunny's picture

The krugman avatar makes this so much more satisfying

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:05 | 2276845 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Bobble head LIESman said that "from everyone he talked to in the financial world, they all thought the system was going down".

Question now is:  Has the system been repaired Steve?  We bailed out banks, padded Wall Street bonuses, sent money under the table to bail out EU banks......  has it been fixed?  If so, why hasn't housing recovered?  Why is debt/gdp rapidly rising?  Why isn't unemployment coming down to where a "repaired economy" should be?

LIESman just blathers but can never back up a single statement he makes.  It takes intelligence to do so, and that's why American TV is so popular:  viewers want entertainment, not an intellectual discussion.  LIESman fits right in.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:37 | 2276934 jayman21
jayman21's picture

LIESman is just a parrot.  Sorry to all the parrots who actually have critical thinking skills.  He cited one of my favorites among the parrots, the TARP money was returned and the world did not end.  I turned off the lights before I went to bed last night and the world did not end.  I need 800 billion to turn off the lights every night or else.


Let's not forget 800 billion was returned, but how much was borrowed from tax payers so the parrots can correctly tell us TARP was paid off.  Last I heard they borrowed trillions to pay off billions.  Only on CNBC does this make sense.  It is entertainment. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:59 | 2277023 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

Santelli is right in one thing: government should hve never created TARP.

It would have been depression but thats ok.

The system has to clean itself, otherwise you accumulate this shit until you can't control it anymore.

Long term TARP is a really bad idea.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:00 | 2277028 benjamin_1114
benjamin_1114's picture

Steve "Dirty Knee's" Liesman is a puppet, I'm so sick of listening to him

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:27 | 2277112 rlouis
rlouis's picture

Wilbur Ross is a Rothschild man.... 


google, or for the sanitizted version :

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:54 | 2278115 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

TARP shmarp. Howcome nobody is talking about the $16 Trillion that banks got UNDER THE TABLE when TARP was going on? The MSM wouldn't dare mention that, not even our boy Rick.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:29 | 2277118 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

If you could organize your industry to get the government to buy $2.5 trillion of worthless shit at par and then have access to unlimited $$ at negative rates because the world was gonna end, wouldn't you scream that the world was about to end?  Nice scam...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:27 | 2277303 Michael
Michael's picture

We should have a "TV News Press Bulling Law" against TV news reporters and their networks engaging in brainwashing techniques used on American citizens.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:42 | 2277352 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Liesman is right the world would have come to an end. The banksters' world.

But just beyond this comment though, IMHO the financial world will come to an end. I am not sure when but unwinding trillions of derivatives ain't gonna be pretty.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 03:33 | 2279614 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

TARP or (financial) HAARP

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:19 | 2277278 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

Iceland didn't go along with the ponzi/fraud - and look the whole island blew up!

...oh wait, it didn't.

Fascinating how Iceland is rarely mentioned by the mainstream(shill) financial press.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:30 | 2277311 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

Why?  Because no one factors in the Hubbard Curve, that's why.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:09 | 2277061 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

The krugman avatar makes this so much more satisfying.


Totally agree, but a steaming pile under it would be perfection.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:57 | 2276821 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

LIESman's degree is in journalism. He is a dickhead and citing Chairsatan is a joke. Bernanke still can't figure out what happened to housing. And Geithner can't even download Turbotax

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:58 | 2277015 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

His bachelor's is in English from University of Buffalo, sounds like a great economist to me.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:32 | 2276924 Tarheel
Tarheel's picture

are you insane??

Leisman is a simpleton talking head who is wrong far more often than he is right and is NOT one of our county's most esteemed economists. Get your head out of steve's ass and wake the fuck up!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:38 | 2276948 YC2
YC2's picture

Check the username and pic for more context on that comment.



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:50 | 2276982 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Our country's most "esteemed" economists are the idiots who got us into this mess. Ben Bernanke, Paul Krugman, Larry Summers, Glenn Hubbard, Fred Mishkin, etc. Liesman is just a journalistic hack who spews whatever swill the Fed is trying to sell us. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:14 | 2277073 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

...Liesman is just a journalistic hack who spews whatever swill the Fed is trying to sell us. 


Sorry to correct you. He is "spouting" whatever his bosses tell him to huck. That he believes it helps make the hundred thousand dollar paydays go down easier.  Even going down on his masters....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:36 | 2277331 Doña K
Doña K's picture

@ Clueless economist

I guess you got junked because not too many know that your post was sarcasm.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:48 | 2276783 Roy Bush
Roy Bush's picture

Fuck all those guys in the studio....bailing out corrupt banks who deserved to go bankrupt and claiming that the world was going to end.  They remind me all of piglets at the tit of the mother sow (aka the Fed and Treasury). 

All the while these types steal our savings through inflation and money printing.  Think of the poor sod who digs ditches all day while these fuckheads discuss a "mere" 700 billion dollars.  The poor ditch digger is nothing more than a slave....check that, we are ALL slaves.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:40 | 2277153 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

What's really sad was the missed opportunity to reign these guys in (the TBTF banks)...they were on their heels and one party controlled the house the senate and the executive branch and they failed to reform the largest organized crime racket in the history of the world.  Unless the Republicans win control of both houses in congress and the white house and CHOOSE to do something, this charade will continue until it blows up in our faces.  Think about it, Wall Street has grown so big and powerful that they have the money to move elections one way or the other, and politicians know it.  Wall Street is gonna support whom ever supports them and if we have a split congress or executive branch, no one will make a move against these guys knowing that the support from Wall Street will go the other way.  The only way to neuter these bastards is to win control of Congress, the White House and then have the resolve to act quickly and cut these guys nuts off.  I doubt it will ever happen...  

Meanwhile, on Main Street the little guy is hosed.  Viva la revolucion!!! 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:52 | 2276802 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

CNBC / Onion Headline: "Stocks Offer Best Opportunity in a Lifetime: Goldman Sachs"

Notice, they didn't say a human lifetime  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:37 | 2276943 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I saw that too, and noted that in the very next sentence they said stocks were the best opportunity in a generation.  But, I say Santelli is probably going to get called on the carpet again for calling bullshit on the propagandists in the studio in New York, who were genuinely pissed off from the looks of it.  Rick might be a part of CNBS but of all of them he is the only one I ever heard speak truth even if that is a lot less frequent than it should be, I am actually amazed that he has been allowed to take a populist position ever.  Too bad there is not an alternative to Bloomberg and CNN and Fox and CNBS for financial and market/political news, like a ZH Network. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:47 | 2276969 Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

Zero Hedge TV (ZHTV)...Great Idea!!

What network would air it though? 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:33 | 2277322 J 457
J 457's picture

RT for 30 minutes M-F.  I'd watch.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:59 | 2276829 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

No one, other than Tyler, has mentioned Scott Wapner.   He pissed me off more than LIESman with that smug "you're an idiot" attidude of his.  I want to punch his pretty f'ing face with a 2x4.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:59 | 2277398 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Agreed.   And not sure where he gets that smug "I know more than you about this" attitude.  He is a hack reporter with a bachelor's degree in history from the University of South Florida.    

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:18 | 2277454 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

good point, I'm so fucking hacked off at listening to journalism fuckers masquerading as knowledgeable economists I forgot what a piece of excrement Wapner is. He gets a beat down too

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:11 | 2276868 theXman
theXman's picture

What do they mean by "World comes to the end"? Japan got nuked, NY got 911-ed, the world still goes on. Without TARP, let's say DJI drops to 4K, why would the world come to the end? Many a career on Wall Street would come to the end, that's for sure. But why would the world stop going? It does not make any common sense.

In the end, it's not TARP, but the bailing out of AIG saved Wall Street's ass. That deal costed tax payers about $200B. How much of that money has been returned? Also, Federal Reserve took those toxic assets off the banks' balance sheet with diluted USD and made the banks look healthy. Compared to those two, the rest of the measures were insignificant.

Those so-called experts are either liers or idiots or both.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:48 | 2277177 dirtbagger
dirtbagger's picture

What they mean but don't say is "The world comes to then end"  for a handful of corrupt bankers.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:37 | 2277337 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Fed just sold off a bunch of the AIG assets at a nice profit.  They also took over the company and made some loans at 8% to AIG.  All in all, it was the AIG shareholder who got the ripping in the deal.  Of course, GE got about the same benefit from the Fed at rates in the range of 1%.  That explains the news coverage coming from CNBC and the live coverage whenever Obama delivers his pile of lies.  All for fairness.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:37 | 2276942 Madrid2020
Madrid2020's picture

Actually, this aptly named pundit,receives his daily talking points directly from the WH Communications office every morning. Obamatron of the first order.The type that will proudly go down-on the ship of course-for his dear hopemonger.



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:40 | 2276755 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

Liesman lecturing Santelli on "humility" by citing the 'experts'  -- hilarity ensues

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:42 | 2276760 VulpisVulpis
VulpisVulpis's picture

Sorry, I forgot to call Liesman an asshat.



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:49 | 2276788 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Liesman wants Santelli to be a better slave.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:00 | 2276832 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Why does anyone watch this shill shit anyway? I tuned them off months ago and enjoy my mornings much more without them. Seriously, WTF do they bring to the table? What benefit does watching this crap add to anything? Turn 'em off! You will thank me. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:08 | 2276860 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Agree Shanky. I stopped watching CNBC months ago. Absolutely sick of the anti gold, buy equities spin day after nauseating day. Even if I were actively trading again, I wouldn't turn that shit on. I wouldn't want the distraction.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:41 | 2276954 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

The data feeds are OK.....just mute the sound....MUCH better that way. The only data "feed" you can't mute is the insipid "headlines" that some geek in the control room writes on the fly, such as;

Bernanake: "All will be the light". Or Buffet: "I see growth returning big time".


Liesman is a pervy looking stooge. He is an asshole bar none. Santelli eats his lunch regularly. Of course, Santelli reports from the CBOE....a true traders pit, while Liesman reports from some liberal lounge in Hoboken - or Obama HQ.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:16 | 2276884 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

I watch them just so that I know what the sheep are being fed.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:24 | 2276911 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Unfortunatly, I have 4 screens in my face at the office. Our bank INSISTS upon keeping it on CNBC.

Kill me

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:50 | 2276983 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Time for a new job Hippo.  But, that banks require you to keep yourself immersed in CNBS says a lot about why and how deep in trouble we really are.  Maybe it is a form of commercial psyOps to see how long you can resist before joining the Borg. 

I quit watching any of the financial channels (or network news for that matter, I call them all "The Obama Show," which they have been since 2008)  at least with sound on.  I will turn up the sound when I see Santelli in the hope he is about to smackdown with the rest of CNBS, especially that Maria bitch.  Or the fat bitch.  The reason for having the screen on and the sound off is that I do not trade or "invest" in any manner, and so have no access to any real time tickers or data as I go about my daily life, plus anytime there is a down day I like the looks of desperation on their ugly mugs.  Try watching with the sound off for a few days and you can tell the Dow/S&P level just by watching their expressions.  It is actually comical when the market is up by more than one hundred, they look pie eyed drunk when it is up by two hundred or more.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:00 | 2277027 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture


I agree 100%. 

Another unfortunate is that due to our cable service, we can't get Bloomberg TV. I'd prefer Bloomy, but they both suck!


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:38 | 2276946 shushup
shushup's picture

I stopped watching CNBC a couple of years ago and I am happier for it.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:07 | 2277053 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

I love CNBC, and I watch with the sound on, because then I can hear with my own ears the abject desperation of the equities and recovery crowd.

It's also a great way to counter the TRUTH on ZH, and see what lies are being told to the American people.

CNBC is a constant reminder to this happy warrior to FIGHT ON!

BTW: Bank of America paid almost $10,000 in property taxes for me and there's literally no upside for them in do so. I suggest that America is being turned into a socialist slave state faster than anyone can possibly imagine.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:07 | 2278609 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny, you could substitute the word "crack" for CNBC on this chain

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:08 | 2277059 superflyguy
superflyguy's picture

I love watching Santelli, he's a comic relief.

I especially like it when everyone is talking nonsense and he's cracking up as if they're telling a joke.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:51 | 2276800 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

That's the part that really killed me, Liesman's insistence that the experts said we were doomed unless we did as they said. This is why we are supposed to have a free market economy, so that we don't need "experts". Everything finds it's own levels through the pricing mechanism.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:36 | 2277509 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Santelli: "What experts?"

"Oh Ben and Tim Geithner".



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:42 | 2276759 qqqqtrader
qqqqtrader's picture

Actually, Wal-Mart is going to save the world!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:43 | 2276763 Coffin Dodger
Coffin Dodger's picture

In a society where Steve Liesman appears as the cheerleader, you know most of them have gone insane.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:43 | 2276765 dfh85
dfh85's picture

Hah, these two have been going at it for ages.


Who remembers when Santelli sent those burgers into the studio?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:44 | 2276766 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Santilli pulling his hair out having to debate with idiots like Lies man.  Crap I want to see Lies man punched in the nose

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:51 | 2276795 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

He'll be punched in the nose metaphorically in a couple years when he is proven wrong.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:45 | 2276767 kralizec
kralizec's picture

TARP = Political Piggy Bank...more like Slush Fund for FOO, Friends of Obama!

Fuck FOO!

Best people...Bernanke, Geithner!  Bwuuhaahaa!! Best people my ass!!!

How does Santelli remain civil with these shitheads?!?!?!


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:45 | 2276769 Irish66
Irish66's picture

Thank you for posting this, I had missed it this morning

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:46 | 2276776 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Dunno about the world, but TARP definitly saved the stock market, if I remember correctly, it didn't pass the first time, then the markets dropped like a rock, thankfully the very next day they RE-voted for it???? (surely that is normal), and the market rebounded, catapaulting the recovery we are witnessing today.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:57 | 2276822 V in PA
V in PA's picture

saved the stock market / extended the lie

they RE-voted / bowed down to their masters

I guess technically you're correct

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:58 | 2277018 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

That 700 point drop when they did not pass TARP on the first vote was called BLACKMAIL, and had congresscritters called their bluff it would have been up by more the next day because the "job creators" or not going to destroy their own wealth by "destroying the world."  When LIESman says the world would have ended it WOULD have for him and CNBS and their owners, there could have been an actual correction.  Any market move they do not control is either a direct threat or an implied threat to their plans.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:59 | 2276830 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It only "saved" the stock market because the financial terrorists that dropped it in the first place stabilized it after the got what they wanted.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:19 | 2276898 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Recovery??? With 45 million people on food stamps, a real unemployment rate at well over 12%, an true inflation rate of over 8% and zombie banks that cannot survive without sucking on the perpetual government mammary gland, a corrupt corporate business model which allows gains to be privatized while losses are passed on to taxpayers and a manufacturing sector which will never return until our wages reach near equilibrium with 3rd world countries, I guess I missed which recovery you are talking about.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:35 | 2276938 Rylie
Rylie's picture

Thats 46 million people on SNAP Cards

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:24 | 2276909 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

I guess I should have included the /sarc tag,  whoops!  sorry guys.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:32 | 2276923 ATM
ATM's picture

Yes, all the corporate slaves in congress got their marching order. revote and pass the bailout for TPTB or else the stock market money that is used to get these fucks elected might dry up and somebody like me or you could actually mount a competitive campaign. No can't have that...... bailout it is!  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:51 | 2277184 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

"...didn't pass the first time and the market dropped like a rock."

yep, I've seen it more than once. You see who's Really in charge.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:31 | 2277316 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

This is a joke, right?  Have you mistaken Zerohedge for Yahoo Finance?  Since Ben Stein stopped posting on Yahoo, the sheep have wandered all through the Web looking for anoher home.  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:46 | 2276777 Adrian Monk
Adrian Monk's picture

The only time Wilbur Ross wants government intervention is when it saves his and the rest of his rich cronies their fortunes!

Liesman is a total puppett jackass!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:12 | 2276876 natty light
natty light's picture

What they meant :

Their world would end.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:33 | 2276927 ATM
ATM's picture

If the place in the Hamptons should become unaffordable for them then their world WOULD end!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:46 | 2276778 marathonman
marathonman's picture

So we threw a bunch of money at the billionaires running the world debt based monetary Ponzi scheme because otherwise we might have to face reality and see the Ponzi scheme collapse?  The only good that came out of TARP is the realization that those guys have been screwing us for 150 years and that the hoi polloi better either prepare to bail out of Dodge or prepare to fight those !@#$%^'s tooth and nail because they play for keeps and so should we.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:47 | 2276780 greyghost
greyghost's picture

got to love santelli..."the same people that got you into it" it. experts anyone?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:49 | 2276791 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



"Top men."

(Raiders of the Lost Ark)

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:59 | 2277022 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Santelli is the LONE sane man reporting on he stays with them is a miracle. WHY he stays with them is a mystery

He's the only reason to watch the fucking network.


Wapner and the rest of the buttheads are simply assclowns.

Aaron Ross Sorkin needs to be taken out back and slapped around - hard.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:54 | 2277198 topshelfstuff
topshelfstuff's picture

I'm always surprised that any time that first $800 Billion is "discussed", nobody mentions the $16 TRILLION [ TARP x20 ] we only learned about this past year, Trillions that were scattered around at the very same time, Only it was a "Secret"...and that's the amount admitted to from the Watered-Down version of the original Audit The FED Bill

Audit The Federal Reserve Reveals 16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts ...

Nov 21, 2011 – 7 votes. Audit The Federal Reserve Reveals 16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts. Audit of the Federal Reserve Reveals $16 Trillion in Secret Bailouts ...

What was revealed in the audit was startling:
$16,000,000,000,000.00 had been secretly given out to US banks and corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland. From the period between December 2007 and June 2010, the Federal Reserve had secretly bailed out many of the world’s banks, corporations, and governments. The Federal Reserve likes to refer to these secret bailouts as an all-inclusive loan program, but virtually none of the money has been returned and it was loaned out at 0% interest.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:17 | 2277451 mudduck
mudduck's picture

The 'experts'. The only way that I would accept that they are the brightest minds for the job would be to cut the tops of their heads off and turn out the lights.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:47 | 2276784 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

God, I would give a .999 Buffalo to see Santelli kick that lying sack of shits shiny headed ass. Liesman........nuff said.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:48 | 2276785 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Gee- TimmyG and Banana Ben on your "experts." So.. how are CNBC ratings nowadays? Thicker than a single sheet of toilet paper?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:48 | 2276786 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Since we don't know what would have happened, it must have worked.  Cut to commercial.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:48 | 2276787 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



It is time to look ahead.. forward is where our combined happiness exists!

Behind us may be troubled waters.. but we are clear of the storm!

The economy is BOOMING!



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:49 | 2276789 Johnk
Johnk's picture

Ripley: Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:43 | 2276961 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Yes Ripley, unfortunately they did.  Much more intelligent life on LV-426.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:56 | 2277012 oddjob
oddjob's picture

and on Omicon Persei 8 as well.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:14 | 2277081 V in PA
V in PA's picture

and in Uranus

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:48 | 2276790 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Lies-man licks Bernanke's scrotum.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:14 | 2276878 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

And that is what makes the sun rise. Prove me wrong. The experts said it's so so it must be.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:49 | 2276792 oleander garch
oleander garch's picture

This is really an argument over a definition.  "The world will end without TARP" is the assertion.  What do we mean by "the world."  In Rick Santelli's view, the world is reality in all its multifaceted and gritty splendor.  In Steve's definition, 'the world' is the existing system of Wall Street TBTFs and its enablers.

They are, therefore, both right.

The real world would not have ended without TARP. 

The Wall Street world would have ended in bankruptcy, jail, and destruction of manipulated markets if not for TARP and all the subsequent market distorting, crimogenic successor programs.  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:51 | 2276794 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Liesman can choke on a sock full of festering shit

Did he really call Tim Geithner an expert? The guy who didn't pay his taxes because he couldn't figure out the turbo tax sotware.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:51 | 2276797 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I just want this fucker to collapse for the sole purpose of seeing the look on Liarman's face.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:51 | 2276799 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

That was great.

Maybe later I'll watch it with the sound ON.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:54 | 2276808 e92335i08
e92335i08's picture

I don't know whos stupider Steve Liesman or Carolyn Maloney (Congress Rep)

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:05 | 2276851 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Hank Johnson could capsize them both, on the Stupidity Index.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:20 | 2277097 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Like Guam?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:55 | 2276814 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

What we have here is a failure to communicate

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:57 | 2276820 digalert
digalert's picture

Liesman experts Bernank and Geethner?

WTH? Houston we have a problem

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:57 | 2276824 gjp
gjp's picture

"I did not talk to a single participant in markets that didn't think this was going down"

Yep, so they all wanted to be bailed out.  These 'experts' all expertly justified a massive looting of the treasury.

TARP made a good "aritthmetic return".  What tripe.  What loser sellouts these people are.  If you're going be on the side of bailout treasury looting, better to be a looter behind the scenes rather than a public media shill, getting paid peanuts for selling your soul.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:00 | 2276835 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

In a battle of wits LIESman is unarmed, a punk who exposes his punkness everytime his putrid jizz stained pie hole opens

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:01 | 2276836 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

I saw Liesman at a conference at the American Enterprise Institute last fall.

As it worked out, I actually rode down in the elevator with him after the conference.  I admit it, I am a dork and can't resist poking a little fun.  I asked him....'You and Santelli exchange Christmas cards don't you?'  He kind of looked at me...'Who are you and what do you mean by that remark?'  I said,  'I see you and Santelli facing off all of the time on whatever channel.  It gets a little heated, doesn't it.'  He said, 'Oh.  It stopped being an exchange of professional opinion a long time ago.  It is all personal now.'

I got a chuckle.  FWIW, I was not impressed with Liesman's presentation.  Lots of painting with a broad brush.  Not too much defense of his arguments.  I actually thought that he was a bit of a socialist and/or big government (big bank shill) proponent.  You know...we had to print all of that money in order to save the world - and we need more of it (to save housing). Check out the video from the event.


I like Santelli, but he screams too much.  Good to see some passion though.



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:31 | 2276918 sskid
sskid's picture

I bet the Christmas card thing that offended him.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:30 | 2277121 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

because he's a jew?


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:32 | 2276925 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Liesman has been an outright Socialist for some time now;  Naturally, he views himself as an elite member of the new Politburo.

Liesman spent time in Russia,  it shows..... A LOT.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:02 | 2276841 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Isn't saying that the "world was going to end" without TARP the equivalent of saying "Capitalism does not work"?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:04 | 2276847 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Both of those guys need to wipe the cum from their mouths.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:07 | 2276854 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

LIESman and Wapner looked so foolish; they may has well have been talking about how $1.2 billion of customer money being vaporized by Corzine was A - O.K. and saved the world.

When theft is openly supported with a straight face by tools like these two you know we are down the rabbit hole at the Mad Hatter's tea party.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:06 | 2276855 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Liesman got a name that suits him well.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:10 | 2276864 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Santelli would do better to rein in the NY-style emotion.  

In this exchange he didn't bring much in the way of facts. I think I agreed with him but he

didn't shore that feeling up with stuff like..."the next day the sun wouldn't have come up??" stuff.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:42 | 2276960 ATM
ATM's picture

NY style? Santelli is ChiCAgo.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:11 | 2277069 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Chicago accent, New York shrill..

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:45 | 2277169 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Haven't been to Chicago much, have you?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:52 | 2276991 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

I agree Santelli needs to do a better job of keeping his cool when arguing with Liesman. Santelli is nearly always right but ends up having his point lost in the bluster.

So when accused of making stuff up, he should have clarified the point. I think he was specifically referring to Maiden Lane but moreover it is disingenous to look at TARP and say the money was paid back, no harm, no foul because TARP did not happen in a bubble (pun intended). The costs of the bailout cannot really even be measured until the Fed's balance sheet is cleaned out and until an honest analysis is put forth as to the socialized costs of expanding that balance sheet and entering into backstop arrangements with foreign entities (e.g. $100 oil new normal).

Perhaps most importantly is the cost of the unprecendented moral hazard created by the TARP and by the Fed. Moral hazard is not some esoteric, philsophical belief but is a very real driver of risk premimums that I don't believe can even be quantified until the next time something blows up.




Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:11 | 2276870 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I just cant wait until the day we see markets collapsing again and guys like LIESman panicking and wondering how it could possibly have all gone wrong.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:11 | 2276871 edwardo1
edwardo1's picture

I don't by any means love Santelli, but big fat Lies man is one of the most irritating, obnoxious purveyors of absolute shite about the land. I can't really stand to look at him because his FATuousness actually manifests in his none to salubrious physical appearance. A dying and corrupt system does need, and always seems to obtain, its vehement apologists.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:12 | 2276874 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Principle is all the matters in the end if a society to seeking to be as democratic and just as possible. It's that simple.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:20 | 2276900 gjp
gjp's picture

without principles you eventually have no principal

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:15 | 2276881 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

LeaseMan is so absorbed he can't even see his own bias.

At the end he says, "I didn't talk to one insider... who didn't think the world was going to fail".

Well of course Mr. LeaseMan. It's true if you ask those who stand to lose something if they are worried about losing that something, then yes, they will take the free insurance protection.

I want to do an art piece showing the weather channel reporter interviewing homeowners who's homes stand in the way of a Cat. V hurricane what they think of the impending doom. "Hello Sir! We see that the hurricane is baring down on your home and will certainly destroy it! I've got the Farmer's guy on the phone right now and he's willing to give you full coverage at no cost to you! Do you want it?  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:16 | 2276885 Tortuga
Tortuga's picture


How many of you bitchezs would support Santelli for VP? Huh? He's the sumbitch that started the freakin Tea Party sentiment that galvanized some of the sleeping giant (not participating citizen voters) so maybe even you Ron Paul boosters could swallow and maybe get behind him. Huh? It all boils down to whom, as in which one of the elitists, can beat those socialist that are now occupying America's government. Know any plumbers that could get elected president? No offense to Joe but I doubt that he has a billion or 2 $ available to make a dent in the "fix" that is our nominating process. If we sheeple don't get together on this, the USA is gonna be in a fix that may not be fixable without dissolution of the Union and we all know how that is resolved. GBA, RICO all banksters and their whores in the govt and IMPEACH that racist Holder and fire and prosecute the entire DOJ.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:17 | 2276889 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

"End of the world." is code speak for TBTF banks going bankrupt and then prison and the nation being forced to go return to an honest gold standard and stop invading countries for their resources on credit while the 99% wake up and start digging themselves out of owing 5 different banks for i-crap, SUV's, student loans,and underwater houses. If this is what Liesman means by "end of the world" then he is right. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:18 | 2276892 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The market ended at TARP. We now have the Ben Bernank. The Ben Bernank determines what is and what is not. The market ended at the Ben Bernank.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:23 | 2276905 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

oldest trick in the book, use fear to get what you want, whether it's government, banks, or religion, they all use the same trick for all of the stupid fucks out there that are scared of their own fucking shadow

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:35 | 2276935 Temporalist
Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:02 | 2277036 Angus195
Angus195's picture


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:32 | 2276921 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

has Liesman checked a map lately?

if he did he might see the Iceland is still there.

just another soulless, empty sociopath rotting from the inside, just like the corrupt, dieing system he so sickeningly worships. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:33 | 2276931 TooRichtoCare
TooRichtoCare's picture

I love how they go from "Senior Economics Reporter" to ocassionally just calling him Senior Economist!  Ha!  What a joke!  Tomorrow NBC might shuffle him off to the Sports desk and he'd be just as happy telling everyone how the little league girl's soccer team in bumblefuck Iowa did in the quarter finals. And he'd be just as knowledgeable.

Santelli, on the other hand, has at least a modicum of Free Markets in his head, and is somewhat of a good old boy "local" from the trading pits...although I personally never remember having anyone like him on the other end of the phone when I called the CBoT for anything...much more likely that a guy like Wolfman would be on the other end. But, whatever, point is Santelli has more credibility. Liesman just goes with the "Bernanke must know what he's doing" spiel and adds nothing of value.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:50 | 2276980 ATM
ATM's picture

Liesman is the guy telling us to trust the people in charge when the people in charge had just been proven to be inept. Their system had just crashed and he wants to, he NEEDS to believe otherwise his belief system would be called into question. Better to blindly accept what he wishes to believe is true than to do any sort of actual introspection on why he could possibly have been wrong.

He's a product of the socialist/authoritarian education system and is just one of those people who can never, ever accept that he has made a mistake. That's exactly why he is where he is. He was chosen for that job to tell us that we should cower to the greatness of the authoritarian monster that will keep us safe.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:34 | 2276932 hellas4life
hellas4life's picture


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:38 | 2276944 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

The sun might have come up the next day, but the food might not have made it to the grocery store, if the banking system had frozen up.  

So, Rick is a little casual about the interconnectedness of our modern system.



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:47 | 2276970 Dr. Hannibal Lecter
Dr. Hannibal Lecter's picture

if the banking system had frozen up.


how the hell do you know it would have?



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:20 | 2277090 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

I know lots of people who were starting to take money out of money market funds and banks, the govt. rushed out to do the (pretend) F.D.I.C. temporary guarantee of money market funds for a reason.

My old lady aunts were calling to ask if they should cash in their bank CDs early and put the money under their mattress.

If you were awake back then you should remember what I am referring to. 

It was a little scary.    

Easy to say now that it was no big deal...but the psychology, if nothing else, was as scary as anything I've seen in my four decades of market involvement.

I get a feeling some of you around here are pretty green, so your "moron" comment is understandable.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:33 | 2277129 TMT
TMT's picture

I agree that things were in turmoil.  In fact, I don't know anyone who would disagree.  But you fail to convince us that the proper solution was for the government to "fix" everything.  I still prefer letting the market sort it out, as opposed to a bunch of corrupt politicians.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:53 | 2277191 jcaz
jcaz's picture

LOL-  you really don't get it, do you?  It wasn't "scary", it was BULLSHIT-  it was only "scary" because you were listening to the shills that perpetuated this garbage.   Banks have failed in this world for THOUSANDS OF YEARS-  it is NEVER DIFFERENT.

BTW-  trying to justfy your ignorance with statements such as "my four decades of market involvement"  is, at best, disingenuous...  If this is all you understand after "four decades of market involvement",  the please-  cash out your savings bonds and go hide it under your pillow.....  Your lack of market knowledge- along with a lack of realization of whom you're dealing with on this board- is more than apparent.

Quit embarrssing yourself, dude- seriously.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:53 | 2276993 TMT
TMT's picture

BULLSHIT.  Don't take money out of my pocket and burden my children based on your "mights".  Let the market and price discovery occur.  You aren't smarter than the free market system.  Give it a try ... for once.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:41 | 2276955 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Anyone besides me remember being brainwashed by TPTB with "Capitalism and free markets are the answer to all our problems?" That was fine.....until the big boys got into trouble. We all know what happened then.  Suddenly, we became outright socialists.  Of course, we never really had true capitalism. No one ever has.  But when one violates principles, they do not warrant the courtesy of conversation anymore.  This includes the lying fuckers in the media.  The market is supposed to be wiser than any person or group,  and consequences are supposed to be part of the game. But alas, we now know it was all a fraud.  And getting more fraudulent by the day.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:51 | 2276984 TMT
TMT's picture

Bingo.  The problem is the statists won't let anyone or anything fail.  In a true free market, there will be those who fail and those who succeed.  If you establish policies that ensure no failure, then you are ensuring limited success.  Welcome to America.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:48 | 2276974 TMT
TMT's picture

So we spend trillions of dollars and socialize bank losses because "experts" told us the world would end if we didn't.  And this dick bag says that's reason enough, and moreover, points to TG and BB as experts.

If we use the sky is falling crap as a reason, then in theory the government can do anything.

I just can't stomach these statist sheep who think the government is on their side and does everything out of benevolence.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:54 | 2277001 ATM
ATM's picture

People like Liesman, imo , have this wierd superiority complex. Everyone else is a flyover, four toothed clodhopper who wants, really needs to be told how to live the better life. And by God he is sure to tell them how to do it. It's for their own good afterall, until it isn't and he says, "jeez, I never would have thought they'd incinerate millions of people in ovens. That's not my fault."

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:51 | 2276986 steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

It amuses me that Mr. Santelli and I would likely agree on very little.  But the question posed:  On an arithmetic basis, did TARP have a beneficial or detrimental outcome?, is simply absurd.  It ignores the corrupting influence of bailouts.  It ignores the damage to the markets themselves.  Like Santelli says, we cannot now know whether the outcomes from this action would be better than outcomes had that action not happened.  What I found most disturbing in the vid, was the statement by the gentleman at the end of the piece - "Even if the end of the world had only a 10% chance of happening, it was worth it."  The reason this is annoying is that it assumes that had the TBTF banks been allowed to crash and restructure, the world as we know it would come to an end.  I posit that TARP ended the world as we knew it.  A world where being on the right side of a bet meant you made money and being on the wrong side meant you lost.  The new world goes as follows:  If you are wealthy and powerful (actually one in the same thing), you can bet on the wildest odds imaginable because the proles will bail you out if you are wrong.  If you are a working-class schlub, you are meat on the table.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:57 | 2277011 ATM
ATM's picture

In fact it causes TPTB to make even more irrational bets in the future. Why not go the longests odds because there is no loss! I'll bet green everytime and not lose on red and black. Perfect!!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:53 | 2276998 Jake88
Jake88's picture

Liesman is an idiot

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:55 | 2277003 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

The thing about TARP that 99% of market participants fail to understand, is that for Main Street, the Great Depression wasn't avoided. Those single or double degreed journalists that reside on the East and West coasts, that report on these stories, don't understand what happened and is happening on Main Street. They represent the experience of those living in NY or DC and generalize it to the rest of the country.

This quote from Neil Barofsky sums it up nicely.

Essentially, TARP successfully stabilized markets and helped prevent another Great Depression, but it failed horrifically in meeting its equally important Main Street goals—including preserving home–ownership—and institutionalized Too Big to Fail and the moral hazard that accompanies it.”

I despise the current enviroment where we only look at the profits and not the losses. It is counterproductive, moreover it is dangerous.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:20 | 2277095 Mercury
Mercury's picture

...or more simply just acknowledging the trade-offs involved: temporary market stability vs. even more socialized liabilities,  increased systemic risk,  the terrible incentives baked into TBTF, an inflation time bomb, stagnant economy and everything else that goes along with standing in the way of a much needed market clearing event.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 12:56 | 2277006 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

If the "market insiders" all thought is was necessary to bail out the market, why wasn't some new management allowed to buy the firms these "insiders" worked at for $2 per share?

Becasue the "insiders" owned the regulators, that's why. So JPM got a sweet deal at $2 a share for Bear, then goes ahead and borrows money from the Fed at 0.25%.

How about next time GS and JPM need money, they sell themselves for $2 bucks a share. That should generate some cash right?

Friggin pathetic.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:03 | 2277040 Jake88
Jake88's picture

You know...if these retail guys watch CNBC and listen to that imbecile Liesman then they are muppets.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:03 | 2277041 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

I'd really like to see LIESman spitting blood.  One day soon I hope.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:06 | 2277050 thetruthseeker
thetruthseeker's picture

What annoys me the most is they act as if TARP was the only thing that could have been done.  Obviously, they needed to do something and that something should have been to nationalize the banks, wipe out the equity holders, clean the bad debt off of their books, make the bondholders take a loss and/or convert them to equity, and finally reissue the equity anew after the temporary nationalization.  Pretty simple.  Why Santelli and others don't call these people out on this issue bugs me.  This is a great argument that will completely shut up sycophantic financial Nazi sympathizers like Steve LIESman.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:14 | 2277082 Negro Primero
Negro Primero's picture


"The video you are trying to access is unfortunately unavailable at the moment.A message has been sent to our customer care team so that we may fix the problem."

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:15 | 2277083 The Wolf
The Wolf's picture

That poor girl sitting around that table on set... watching those five guys do reach arounds in a circle jerk...

When the experts comment came through I am sure Santelli said "EXPERTS... give me a f!#$%ing break" but chewed off the "uck"...

I prefer to watch Bloomers in the am... Sheikh Eric Schatzer's harem perform the dance of a thousand veiled opinions... the blonde with big eyes and opinions... the red hed / brunette brunhilde... and my dear Scarlett...

Andrew Ross Sorkin couldn't even storyboard a Tom and Jerry cartoon and make it believable...

Stevie L... who could forget 2010 when the employment numbers came out each week and their was a +1 job after -1500000 of losses the previous several months... he unpacks his little GS soapbox and starts banging on about the positive...

Don't know this new tool...Wapner... is he the fat boy who could go a few rounds in the Turkish Bath or the extra from Selling New York ?




Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:17 | 2277088 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Tim Geithner, Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke are the CNBC best world ecomoic advisors, .... this is a fuckin joke, isnt it?

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