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Terminated CBO Whistleblower Shares Her Full Story With Zero Hedge, Exposes Deep Conflicts At "Impartial" Budget Office

Tyler Durden's picture


Earlier today, we suggested that in the aftermath of the Greg "Muppets" Smith NYT OpEd, contrary to assumptions by Jim Cramer, a bevy of potential whistleblowers would step up to tell their tale of fraud and corruption across all walks of life - from Wall Street to, far more importantly, Washington, consequences be damned. This was paralleled by an alleged JPM whisteblower describing to the CFTC the firm's supposedly illegal activities in the precious metals space, which while we initially dismissed, we now admit there may be more to the story (stay tuned), even though we still have our doubts. What we are 100% certain of, however, is that yet another whistleblower has stepped up, this time one already known to the general public, and one that Zero Hedge covered just over a month ago: we refer to the case of former CBO worker, Lan T. Pham, who, as the WSJ described in early February, "alleges she was terminated [by the CBO] after 2½ months for sharing pessimistic outlooks for the banking and housing sectors in 2010" and who "alleges supervisors stifled opinions that contradicted economic fixes endorsed by some on Wall Street, including research from a Morgan Stanley economist who served as a CBO adviser. As part of the review, Sen. Grassley's staff is examining whether Wall Street firms or others exert influence that compromises the office's independence." As we observed in February, "what is most troubling is if indeed the CBO is nothing but merely another front for Wall Street to work its propaganda magic on the administration. Because at the core of every policy are numbers, usually with dollar signs in front of them, numbers which have to make sense and have to be projected into the future, no matter how grossly laughable the resultant hockeystick." As it turns out, somewhat expectedly, the WSJ version of events was incomplete. There is much more to this very important story, one which has major implications over "impartial" policy decisionmaking, and as a result, Ms. Pham has approached Zero Hedge to share her full story with the public.

As we stated earlier, we will present any and every whistleblower's statement in its entirety, and without editing, and so we will, however we want to bring our readers' attention to several key aspects of Ms. Pham's termination from the CBO, because it may have substantial implications over the enacted $25 billion robosigning settlement. The reason for this is that Ms. Pham was fired because of her work voicing skepticism over precisely the same 'chain of title' validity issues that snarled foreclosure to a halt for much of 2011, which as Adam Levitin has said present a "potential systemic risk to the US economy" and which have necessitated the recently enacted Robosettlement to avoid massive losses for the banks (and in the process yet another shadow taxpayer bailout for the Too Big To Fail banks).

The bottom line is that the CBO was warned at least by Ms. Pham (and possibly others) over the dangers of precisely the issue that Attorneys General are scrambling to shove under the rug in exchange for a wristslap to all mortgage originators (i.e., the same banks that somehow are now getting bailed out by taxpayers and the GSEs on an annual basis). And just like every other issue that merely gets a cosmetic and very transitory liquidity facelift, nothing ever is actually fixed. As Ms. Pham says: "It is unclear how the recent State attorney generals’ agreement to a proposed yet unpublished terms of the $25 billion robo-signing settlement would repair the chain of title issues that continue to mutate. In January 2011, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court reversed the foreclosure actions of two banks for lacking proof of clear title, followed by a decision in October 2011 that a buyer who purchased a house that was improperly foreclosed upon does not make the buyer the new owner of the house; the sale does not transfer the property."

While we are confident that even more contract laws will be terminally bent and broken simply to avoid some more balance sheet impairments for America's already insolvent financial system, the message here is clear: the CBO, and arguably other "impartial" policy advisors, will only focus on the established institutional opinion, preferably that set by Wall Street itself, and retaliate (in some cases with physical force) over anyone who provides a dissenting opinion.

Such as Ms. Pham.

Below is her full story (pdf).


Following the Wall Street Journal story, “Congress’s Number Cruncher Comes under Fire,” I realized that the true nature of the issues would not come out. Therefore, I am making public the letter that I wrote to Senator Grassley (Feb. 23, 2011) regarding circumstances that led to my firing after 2.5 months by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), particularly my writing about mortgage fraud and its roots in mortgage securitization that CBO sought to deny was a problem.

For clarification, the WSJ did not give proper recognition to some individuals. My “supervisors” was Dr. Deborah Lucas, who was CBO chief economist and assistant director, and is currently tenured professor of finance and economics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). MIT Professor Lucas was called by the President to serve in a leadership role at CBO. Morgan Stanley economist and CBO advisor, is the Vice President of Economics Research at Morgan Stanley, Richard “Dick” Berner, whose policy framework for refinancing stimulus was to be incorporated into my writing. Dr. Lucas also shared with me analyses from Goldman Sachs, also on the CBO’s distinguish panel of economic advisors, on the housing market such as the banks’ limited risks on mortgage buy-backs.

As a Congressional senior staffer, financial economist, my initial responsibilities were to write a brief (paper) to Congress on the state of the foreclosure crisis and the alternative policy options, as well as cover banking and housing. Almost to the exclusion of other policy options, CBO Assistant Director Lucas and senior management worked around Morgan Stanley’s policy framework and related ideas to present to Congress as the policy choice (One would be correct to point out that CBO does not make policy). Below are excerpts from my letter to Senator Grassley:

I was repeatedly pressured by the CBO Assistant Director, Deborah Lucas… to not write nor discuss issues in the banking sector and mortgage markets that might suggest weakness in these sectors and their consequences on the economy and households...

CBO: Robo-signing, foreclosure fraud as “hype in the press”

When I wrote about the emerging foreclosure problems in September 2010, CBO Chief Economist Lucas maintained that robo-signing was media “sensationalism,” “the kind of event of the moment where we should be adding skepticism, not just repeating the hype in the press”; CBO wrote that my writing about it “lacks judgment about what is important.” Exploring this further in the letter,

…Issues at the heart of the foreclosure problems pertain to securitization….and the Mortgage Electronic Registration System (MERS), which purports to have legal standing on electronic records of ownership on about 65 million…mortgages… MERS…facilitated Wall Street’s ability to expedite the pooling of subprime mortgages into MBSs by bypassing standard ownership transfer procedures as the housing bubble escalated…


The implications have profound financial and economic consequences that would be of compelling interest to Congress and the public, but the CBO sought to silence a discussion of such risks, that in reality have been materializing. These risks put into question the ability of investors or bondholders to make claims on the collateral (the homes) that underlies trillions of dollars in MBSs, the bulk of which are now guaranteed by …Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This affects $10 trillion in residential mortgage debt outstanding, of which $7 trillion in mortgage-backed securities (MBSs)…

The CBO dismissing such issues prevents an analysis of the risks, so that the public may be forced again to shoulder the consequences for which they have not been a given a voice or a choice.

A month later after being told by CBO Chief Economist Lucas to not repeat this media hype, Georgetown University Law Professor Adam Levitin, Special Counsel to the Congressional Oversight Panel and scholar at the American Bankruptcy Institute, raised essentially the same issues in his testimony before the House Financial Services Committee:

“The chain of title problems are highly technical issues, but they pose a potential systemic risk to the US economy. If mortgages were not properly transferred in the securitization process, then mortgage-backed securities would in fact not be backed by any mortgages whatsoever….


These problems are very serious. At best they present problems of fraud on the court, clouded title to properties coming out of foreclosure, and delay in foreclosures that will increase the shadow housing inventory and drive down home prices. At worst, they represent a systemic risk that would bring the US financial system back to the dark days of the fall of 2008.” [Executive Summary, first page]

Essentially, the chain of title on securitized mortgages appears broken, whether or not there is a foreclosure. This would pertain to most homebuyers in the past 10 years as most mortgages were securitized by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac providing the guarantees, and the largest banks (“The $7 Trillion MBS Problem – Foreclosure Problems and Buybacks”). Recall that these same entities founded MERS, which expedited securitization and purported to have foreclosure authority from its electronic records of ownership on about 65 million mortgages. “Robo-signing” emerged as fraudulent or defective documents were used or created to establish the legal authority to foreclose as MERS faced legal challenges; as of July 22, 2011, foreclosures could no longer be initiated in MERS’ name. At last year’s pace, some figures suggest it could take lenders in New York 62 years to clear their foreclosure inventory, 49 years in New Jersey and a decade in Florida, Massachusetts, and Illinois.

It is unclear how the recent State attorney generals’ agreement to a proposed yet unpublished terms of the $25 billion robo-signing settlement would repair the chain of title issues that continue to mutate. In January 2011, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court reversed the foreclosure actions of two banks for lacking proof of clear title, followed by a decision in October 2011 that a buyer who purchased a house that was improperly foreclosed upon does not make the buyer the new owner of the house; the sale does not transfer the property.

A striking little mention fact of the Massachusetts foreclosure case was that the lenders could not show that the two mortgages were part of the securitization pool. Let’s consider a thought exercise. Others have the raised the question: if the entity that has been taking the homeowners’ mortgage payments is not the real owner, what happens when the true owner(s) of

the mortgage shows up? Are homeowners on the hook again for those ‘missed’ mortgage payments? It was not uncommon for mortgages to be sold multiple times, and it is my understanding that loans were intentionally not given unique identifiers as it moved from origination or purchase through to securitization.
In response to the WSJ story, Director Elmendorf issued a public statement maintaining the integrity of CBO’s work, an excerpt which reads:

“…We have the utmost confidence in the objectivity of our work and devote considerable time and energy to explaining the basis of our findings as clearly as we can to help Members of Congress understand the work that we do.” (Bolded emphasis is CBO Director Elmendorf’s)

In early November 2010, a stunning example was CBO Director Elmendorf’s, a Harvard Ph.D. economist, view that employment growth in housing construction would spur economic growth, in his discussion of inputs into CBO’s macroeconomic forecast model. A question about the assumption was met with Director Elmendorf asking why they were “pessimistic” about such assumptions.

After my termination, Director Elmendorf stated that I should have followed directions from the more knowledgeable and experienced Chief Economist Lucas, taken the opportunity to learn from her. Director Elmendorf saw no ethical issues in her direction, but shifted to perhaps we had a difference of professional opinion. As I understand, Director Elmendorf and MIT Professor Lucas first claimed to Senator Grassley’s office that they could not speak about my termination due to personnel privacy protections, when none exists for Congressional employees. When given full immunity to speak freely to Senator Grassley’s office regarding my termination, they refused to speak.

It has been suggested to not mention these things in polite conversation, but I admit there were oddities following CBO’s termination. After CBO fired me at the end of the day saying “we do not know whether or what you know about economics, economic theory or finance,” I returned to my office to make a phone call. Everyone had left, but there was a silhouette of a man standing in the dark in an office across the courtyard watching me during the 15-20 minute phone call. Later, I came home to find some papers had been moved and could no longer find some important documents pertaining to this case. I attempted to retrieve these documents from my office at CBO, but the power to my office was shut down precisely as the documents from my computer were about to be e-mailed to me; the entire floor and building were unaffected. At about 3 a.m. during a week day, there was sudden a loud crash into my front door followed by complete silence. Perhaps it was just a complimentary early wake-up call.

The truth is still what it is.

As I have come to learn, the issue of foreclosure fraud ‘robo-signing’ seems to be spoken in hushed tones near the powers of Washington D.C. CBO has the ear of Congress and can make or break policies that affect the nation with its analyses.

Who is the CBO serving?

Lan T. Pham, Ph.D.



And her full letter to Chuck Grassley can be found here - pdf.


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Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment urbanelf
urbanelf's picture

Congratulations, ZH

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

You don't congratulate a person who points to a pile of shit.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:22 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

If they help you avoid stepping in it, they shirley do deserve kudos......

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Agree...and stop calling me "Shirley".

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:35 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

ruh-roh ... time to save ZH's IP address before they wipe ZH from DNS servers!

PS. Just noticed recently that I can no longer use google to search for my old posts on ZH. It seems that all (or selected) topics are being totally filtered out of their results ... in addition to prefacing each result that points to ZH with: "Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!"

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

Yes! Same with me. Nowhere to be found on google unless the search was exact and several words long. I used and they were right there.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

google, facebook, microsoft, apple....  all these corporations are in bed together with the fascists that control the government.  they can't shut the internet down all at once, but they can take it over and slowly strangle it, and only a few will notice...

(edit) here is just another example:

sure it all looks basically clean, protecting copyrights etc... but in practice it means that they will erase anything that fascists don't like, and bar anyone who actually tells a little truth


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment Janice
Janice's picture

I asked the same questions to my local Clerk of the Court two years ago. He said that he didn't understand why I was so concerned, no one else had ever brought up the issue of chain of title. I wonder if he's caught up to the rest of the herd.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

doubt it, but time is on our side, except for that option premium decay. 

p.s. unprepared: you do if the pile is unacknowledged.  not original i know but still important.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:34 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Well done Lan.  Thank you for speaking, and thanks Ty for posting this.

The corruption runs deep.  The debts and the burdens are obviously terribly toxic and contagious, otherwise there would be no need to be hushed.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:57 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:23 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Well this is a nice new phenomenon. Whistleblowers have stopped giving a fuck, and have started sharing info. Here's to morality.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:48 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Pham's done a phamously good job here.   I hope her 15 minutes gets extended to an hour or more. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:46 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Oh good......confirmation that the BS......was indeed BS.


Whew.......I was starting to second guess myself for a second there.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:36 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

Economics taught at all levels of education is complete horse shit.  This makes me fucking sick. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:50 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:52 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Fucking sycophants.  Do I always have to be the one to come in here and point out that they are apparently graduating PhD's with fucking horrible grammar?


And fuck you, Conrad Murray, you douche.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Nice to see you too, chumbawamba. I see that religious awakening is really working out for you. Cheers.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

what a nice refreshing breeze, like revolution in the air, can't stop it

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:43 | Link to Comment covsire
covsire's picture

Her story sounds plausible and everything, but I watched a few episodes of the X-Files and the shadow figure watching her, documents missing and power going out just as she was going to email some things sounded like something right out of Mulder's life story, down to the timing of the events. 

Still I know the CBO is a corrupt institution, for the simple fact they completely lied about Obamacare alone from the very beginning.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:02 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

The CBO?

At this point I believe the entire State is shot through with corruption.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 07:09 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture
 you really think so chief?



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:11 | Link to Comment uraniuman
uraniuman's picture

Having been a township supervisor for too long - I can confirm witnessing greed and corruption, even at the lowest levels of government. Term limits would cure many ills.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 04:47 | Link to Comment TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

It`s understandable that she feels vulnerable and scared and becomes a bit paranoid after suddenly finding herself being an outcast. The "Moscow Rule" should give some guidance :
if something strange happens once, ignore. Twice : coincidence. Three times : no coincidence !

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:37 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You should thank Senator Grassley. "There is no claim unless the claim says something meaningful to someone in power." Not that i'm allowed to say this stuff in these here parts but i've always thought of Senator Grassley as one of the true "good government guys" in...well..."Government." Anywho...carry on!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:37 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I have not been corruptedly bought out by anyone.  Hence still living as middle-class surrounded by upper-class. 

"I am The Big Ching-aso and I endorse this stupid non-sequitor message."


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

I love all of these victims who came into the game with nothing and left with something.

Doug Elmendorf is beyond a joke, the guy is never, ever right and he has Obama's ear.

I would have a record of these-he really must be trying to be wrong in order to be wrong systematically-predictions but wiki keeps editting them out.

Think the best one was unemployment would be back to "normal" 6% by 1q 2012 he said this in late 2010.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:55 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I can't imagine internet life without ZH.    It would be like dying by a 1,000 tiny bytes.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:05 | Link to Comment monoloco
monoloco's picture

If we commit financial fraud the DOJ comes after us, prosecutes us and throws us in jail, when the TBTF banksters commit financial fraud they just pass a law after the fact legalizing the fraud.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

Bravo Dr. Pham! and ZH!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 07:54 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



It's Phamtastic!!!


It's like Linsanity squared.


It appears a chink has been found in the CBOs armour......good thing I don't work for ESPN.....I'd be pretty screwed right about now.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:47 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:52 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:47 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

How many times have we witnessed Eric Schmidt slobbering on Obama's dick? Google just an arm of the fascists

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture and are not bad search engines also.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:58 | Link to Comment DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

If more whistleblowers contact ZH, they'll go after the servers, for evidence.  DNS ip backup wont' help us, unless ZH has distributive database backups around the world, like piratebay.



Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

What you describe is a binary event; either they go after (and shut down) news sources or they don't.

Is it a good idea to keep IPs handy? Yes. But, the larger issue is whether TPTB are really brassy enough to shut down legitimate traffic on the interenet. Look to China to see the most oppressive policies play out.

If the US pulled this, the backlash would be epic.

Quite a conundrum if you think about it for the elites ... perhaps Mr. Kreiger is right after all.



EDIT: I just got my copy of "The Forgotten Man". I will chat ya'll in a few days. Later!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:33 | Link to Comment jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

cooter: love you and your posts for a long time (or so it seems).  i would have said you were right all through the bush rule (it seemed there was an opposition).  but since obama, i'm not so sure. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:21 | Link to Comment blindfaith
blindfaith's picture



Dear Cooter,


You say "If the US pulled this, the backlash would be epic.".  Why? we have sat on our collective asses and watched our neighborhood be destroyed with forclosurers when we knew it was the corruption.  We sat on our asses when we saw more and more freedoms and rights removed from the Consitution using the back door.  And, the beat goes on and on demonstrating who easy it is to take over the nation by a band of street thugs, elected and non elected.

Americans will do nothing, same as always

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:12 | Link to Comment EverythingEviL
EverythingEviL's picture

I agree.  It's usually one of a few things.  They don't care, they are scared, they don't want to admit that our government is complicit in all the crimes taking place, or they feel there is nothing they can do about it so why bother?   I have many friends that always seemed like intelligent people but when I tell them about things and show them the evidence a glazed look starts to come over there eyes like it's just instant denial or they think I am the crazy one.  Tell me you guys have all experienced this, I know you have.  Even my wife thinks I'm crazy lol.  It's a sad state of affairs.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:51 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Are you saying this latest whistleblower suspiciously entering ZH's gate is like some sort of Trojan Condom?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

@john...I can't seem to search by the category of news on either of those search engines.......

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Whisteblowers are coming out of the woodwork like termites. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

I logged in to +1 you because the visitors don't see the junks and +'s..

Good form..  wish I could + another for the "butt" pun...



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:10 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I have to be judicious with my "butt" puns.   Some are punny, some are not.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:10 | Link to Comment cnsteph
cnsteph's picture

I use Duck, but I haven't found an email service that doesn't keep all your info.  I wouldn't even mind paying as long as its private and they don't sell my info or keywords.  I'd prefer completely annonomys but I don't know enough to do that.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:19 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Have you considered the benefits of encryption?  Your emails might be totally mundane, but once encrypted, they could function as honeypots for the NSA and other alphabet agencies...

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:42 | Link to Comment I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

yea i switched to duck, seriously thinking about setting up my own email server. Just get a domain name from one of the providers. There are some private email services for $, hushmail and others.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:19 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Jumpshipmail and Cryptohippie's mail both do what you want and more.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Jason_1sandal
Jason_1sandal's picture

I use Ixquick "The worlds most private search engine"   

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Everyone needs to purge Goolgie or whatever it's called from their systems.  Try it.  It's really quite difficult, but worth it.  I like the 'ancient' webcrawlers and meta-search engines at the moment.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:56 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

None of these will happen because something else will happen before that.

I have posted this story a few times before, in my more than 2 years at ZH.

Six of my high school classmates and I went on a long weekend retreat up in the mountains. With not much to do and plenty of time, we decided to play friendly poker game with about two hundred dollars total.

Soon enough two of us have broken the other four. In order to keep the game going, we started issuing little sheets of paper with our signatures and various denominations. $10, $20, $50 and $100

Two days later, the two of us who had won all the actual dollars, put them away and continued playing with these IOU's and the IOU's had grown to thousands of dollars. Mind you that the risk taking had exploded, as you knew that you can create more IOU's.

Now the weekend came to an end and we returned home. Trying to get paid on the IOU's was of course out of the question. You learn from real life experiences.

The time of the derivatives blowing up in the banks' faces is near. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 04:04 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Made me laugh.

Kind of stupid. Typical US citizenism.

What was the difference between your 'real' dollars and the bits of paper you emitted as debt?

You. And your US citizen buddy.

That is what you learn from 'real' life experiences. Only US citizens, with their state pampering them, building up on their propaganda and now fantasy, have this detached attitude toward 'real' life.

US citizens, cant tell the fake from the 'real'.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 04:18 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

But chinese citizenism citizens CAN tell the fake from the real --- and peddle the pirated fakes and cheap knock-offs to stupid, price-obsessed Western consumers.

Hypocrisy, thy name is chinese citizenism!  Such is its eternal nature --- that and blobbing-up, of course.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:06 | Link to Comment Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

But chinese citizenism PRADA BAGScitizens CAN tell the fake YVES SAINT LAURENTfrom the real --- and peddle theHERMES SCARVES pirated fakes andUGG BOOTS cheap knock-offs to stupid, MONT BLANC PENS price-obsessed Western consumers.

Hypocrisy, thy nameARMANI TIES is chinese citizenism!  Such is itsLOLEX WATCHES eternal nature --- that and blobbing-up, of course.


Glad to have you back, AKAK, but if you hope for any understanding from ANANONYMOUS, you have to put it in a form it can understand.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:25 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Make me laugh!  Literally!

Oh my God, your comment had me literally CRYING with laughter!  Most excellent job! 

But such is the eternal nature of Discount Viagra anti-chinese citizenism humor.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:02 | Link to Comment streetcrawler
streetcrawler's picture

You're a loon:


If you're going to come up with a conspiracy theory, at least make it plausible.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:33 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I went through a half dozen of my old post ~7 weeks ago and only two showed up. Those on George Washington's post didn't show even with quotes.

This post did show up, yes, (with a lot of other sites referencing it.).  :)

I guess it just random like how emails from Ron Paul's campaign routinely go into my junk mail folder even though I move them to the inbox each time. Nothing to see here, move along.

On the non-conspracy and therefore uninteresting side Google may not hit the above the line posts very well.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 07:26 | Link to Comment davey
davey's picture

I posted a comment about the underpricing of gold and noticed that it was deleted 5minutes after posting.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:44 | Link to Comment sitenine
sitenine's picture - for those interested.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:54 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

Are these numbers the daily increase in u.s. debt?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:40 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

thank u both.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:46 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Yes but who uses Google these days it went out with AOL, Sorry I think my granddad still used it , but he is dead now. 

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:05 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Do you use any search engine? Or just rely on Facebook updates to bring the news? Or think you can bypass your own bias and find the news you need to know on your own? Not being sarcastic (well not yet) but questions I've asked myself.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:59 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Google just introduced some new algorithmic type search stuff (semantic and named entities ... which they sneered at only a few years ago btw) but which may have some unintended consequences with respect to search results (ranking and stuff).

But if you are getting "Do NOT follow ... blah blah" .... I woud guess you downloaded some virus plagued porn. Get offline and clean up your computer.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:50 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

No viruses on my computer, other than maybe my handle being on a list.

Interesting: Just did another few tests with the same search term from earlier (clicking on it from history) and the preface on each result was no longer there (though I have also noticed it many times in the past, including just after a Windows reinstall ... even questioned Tyler on it once about 6 months ago)!

Maybe I will also be able to find my old posts again now (though the one I really wanted to find, from a week or so ago, is still not coming up). ;-)

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:22 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Ah Windoze, there's yer problem right there! :>D

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 06:56 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture


ruh-roh ... time to save ZH's IP address before they wipe ZH from DNS servers!

PS. Just noticed recently that I can no longer use google to search for my old posts on ZH. It seems that all (or selected) topics are being totally filtered out of their results ... in addition to prefacing each result that points to ZH with: "Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!"



Click on My Account, top right, then on Track...threads you have posted in are listed.


Click on a thread then CTL F and search for your handle.  That's how I do it.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 20:27 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Thanks, RMF. That's how I do it too...if I can remember approximately when and within which type of topic I posted a particular thought.

But, within a typical week, I make too many comments on too many threads for that to be generally practical. So, I generally use goggle's syntax of: +"i-dog" +keywords  to quickly find the post I'm looking for.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 10:45 | Link to Comment MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture





Initiating server query ...

Looking up IP address for domain:

The IP address for the domain is:

Connecting to the server on standard HTTP port:





Requesting the server's default page.

The server returned the following response headers:

HTTP/1.1 200 OK

Server: Apache/2.2.3 (CentOS)

X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.6

X-Drupal-Cache: HIT

Etag: "1331908978-1"

Cache-Control: public, max-age=0

Last-Modified: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:42:58 +0000

Vary: Cookie,Accept-Encoding

Content-Encoding: gzip

Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Content-Length: 22342

X-Cacheable: YES

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:43:54 GMT

X-Varnish: 1455207021 1455204129

Via: 1.1 varnish

Connection: close

age: 0

X-Cache: HIT

X-Cache-Hits: 41

Query complete.

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 19:32 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

But what does this all mean?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment tamboo
Sat, 03/17/2012 - 11:08 | Link to Comment Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

I've always hated Google. Everybody tells me how great they are. Fuck Google.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Agreed. You don't say congratulations, you say thank you.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:20 | Link to Comment true brain
true brain's picture

The Mcnamara Syndrome:  You guys must remember the former secretary of defense during the vietnam war. the guy knew it was wrong at that time but kept his mouth shut until he is near death. This is what I call the McNamara syndrome. We need the people at the highest level to come forward and tell the truth to the public and make necessary changes before it's too late and the whole society collapses. It benefits no one to write a memoir and tell the truth on your deathbed like McNamara. Please the guts to tell the truth while it still matters. 

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:24 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Where is Larry Flint when you need him.....?? He should put up some reward money to anyone who "outs" Jamie/LLoyd..

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

He should put up a reward for anyone who brings him Jamie/Lloyd's bloody head on a stick.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Jabba the Flint is as spineless as they come!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:35 | Link to Comment wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Ooops - double post!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:59 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



No need to apologize for the double-post except for the first post which still doesn't make sense to me.  Ok maybe I get it.  He's paralyzed so he's 'spineless'?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:03 | Link to Comment ResFam
ResFam's picture

The one thing about Grassley is that he's a complete bulldog on whistleblower issues. Yes, he's kind of a cranky old curmudgeon, but he's notorious for sinking his teeth into whistleblower issues like a pit bull. In the '80s he famously drove his own car to the Pentagon after being stonewalled by DoD officials who wouldn't let him speak to a whistleblower. He camped out at the Pentagon until they finally relented. That's when he uncovered the $750 toilet seats and the $600 ashtrays for military planes... Huge fraud.  He has one of the best investigative staffs in Washington, folks with the capacity to understand the MERS issue. Watch this one closely... If he gets his hackles up over this, he'll be ferocious until he gets what he wants.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:03 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I'm amazed he's still breathing.   He must have Hoover-shit on a whole bunch of people.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:24 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

The one thing about Grassley is that he's....

A Politician. Don't get your hopes up.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:48 | Link to Comment Crassus
Crassus's picture

Don't know how much Mcnamara actually knew. Vietnam was a CIA war cooked up by the Dulles brothers to drive a wedge in the fissure of a perceived communist monolith, first blatantly evident in Mao's 'Hundred Flowers" speech. It worked. In 1979 Soviet backed Vietnam invaded the Chinese backed Khmer Rouge in Cambodia. The dominoes fell in distinct directions. Very few knew the real game.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

You do when that pile of shit is revered as God's avatar on Earth, and they do so in the face of a vast conspiracy of inaction and actual repression carried out against truth tellers by the regulators.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:26 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You don't congratulate a person who points to a pile of shit.

Feel free to not congratulate me, then, as I point in your direction.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Amigo, you have to put a space (or dot, or anything) before the <em> tag, otherwise we can't vote you up.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Lo siento muchisimo, compadre --- I usually try to do exactly that.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Good call, I almost stepped in it.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Ms. Pham rightly identifies the legal issues that will continue to threaten the validity and enforceability of any purported global settlement regarding the mortgage crisis, whether based on "Robosigning" (fraudulent, perjured or otherwise compromised and void ab initio documents relating to the chain of title), the suspect validity of any titles that allegedly were conveyed via MERS, and a whole host of other critical legal issues involving constitutionally fundamental property rights that will be adjudicated for a long time in both state and federal court venues.

It has been my contention all along that nothing short of a full hearing on the merits of these many issues by the U.S. Supreme Court and the highest state courts (when dealing with state recording statutes) will render any proposed global settlement between the federal government and/or state attorneys' general enforceable or not.

Stay tuned, because this battle has only begun, and the sheer volume of litigation and gravity of legal issues to be presented to and argued before courts will be epic.

All the talk of any global settlement thus far has been pure political posturing and a poorly veiled attempt to discourage what will inevitably be the full litigation and adjuducation of these claims based on fundamental real property law, state recording statutes and even criminal law pertaining to the felonious signing of, notarization of and swearing to false information in affidavits and other forms of written testimony.

The volume of filings, time to adjudicate these cases and the amount of claims in dollar terms that will constitute these aggregrate issues to be litigated will positively dwarf any other common nucleus event that has given rise to legal action in U.S. history.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:18 | Link to Comment WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

I agree, but I wonder if these cases will ever see the light of day? I'm looking at a foreclosure that might be a great buy, but how do I find out if it has a clear title?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:36 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Here's how that works.  (This is an important lesson that applies to many things.)


You worry about the money you can potentially make.


You worry about whether the property has a clear title.

The best part is that it doesn't matter much what you choose to worry about, because in a year or two or ten, you'll either be on one of the sides of the courtroom, or one of the sides of the legislation that's passed to try to preserve whatever-the-fuck the status quo is at that time.

Quote me on that.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:05 | Link to Comment Janice
Janice's picture

No way. The banksters got to the Florida Legislators and they passed a law stating that title changes in the course of a business transaction did not need to be recorded at the State & County level. So, Ambro bought up a bunch of mortgages and then sold the "mortgage business" portion of their enterprise to Citigroup. CitiMortgage now "services" my mortgage, but they have sold the title and I don't think they know who has the "legal ownership" of my house. I bet this same crap happened in every state. The Florida Legislators sold the citizens of Florida out!

I also think that now, my mortgage is a bearer note, since it has been severed from its collateral change of title restrictions. I was reading that the first thing a socialist government does is seize ownership of real property. This was done under Charlie Crist & George Bush, not Obuma

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:26 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Then quit paying Citi for something they don't hold or cannot produce.... 

Funny thing- I'm in Year Three of not paying on my Florida mortgage....  The last time I heard from my "mortgage holder",  I suggested that they take me to court, where I would demand to that they prove they had a legal basis to demand payment from me for ANYTHING....

That was a year ago...  Not a peep since.

This isn't about me "ducking my responsibility"-  I want to know that the entity I send my mortgage payment to is LEGALLY ENTITLED to it, and can PROVE IT.

Florida can make up all the "laws" they want to about it-  bottom line is, if someone demands payment from me, they sure as hell better have a fundamental right to the payment.

The IOU in my pocket from my 5th grade girlfriend I loaned money to is also a "bearer note",  but I don't see myself taking her to Court, unless things get REALLY tight......

Sat, 03/17/2012 - 00:47 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I think that's actually pretty smart. You shouldn't pay twice & payment to a fraudulent claimant doesn't get you off the hook to the real lender once you can figure out who that is. Having a system that even makes it a challenge to know who is the lender or borrower or buyer or owner is insane.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:08 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



".....that has given rise to legal action in U.S. history."

Roh, roh.   Where have I heard that term 'legal action' for the slighted public-at-large before?

IOW, a whole new shit-load bunch of lawyers are gonna get a whole-lot class-action richer.  At the end of the day, the 'settlement' will be like about $1.50 per household give or take $1.49.    Not adjusted for hyper-inflation of course.

Call me Cynical but don't call me Shirley.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 08:38 | Link to Comment failure to perform
failure to perform's picture

Just used your comment to illustrate the article on fb! Thank you! :)

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

You lack etiquette...


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

At least he likes himself. Gave himself a green arrow up.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

<You guys are merciless. That's why I like this site

<You moron

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:39 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

Being vicious in the service of the Truth is no vice.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

No idea what that is supposed to mean.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

you make a contribution to ZH for hard hitting news you don't get anywhere else, put your money where your posts are!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:03 | Link to Comment rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

You do congratulate a person who shines a light on a den of cockaroaches!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 05:55 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

pony up you mofo's and thank you that have, happy Sts. Pats day that have given a contribution to ZH and those on the fence

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 09:42 | Link to Comment SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Right, you FIRE them. Just like Florida State Attorney General Pam Bondi did to June Clarkson & Theresa Edwards when they were working on the Mortgage Fraud.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 13:31 | Link to Comment RollinsArline3
RollinsArline3's picture

my roomate's mom makes $83/hr on the computer. She has been fired from work for 9 months but last month her pay check was $18339 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this web site .....

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:15 | Link to Comment ACP
ACP's picture

First hard core exclusive...interesting.

I'm sure there will be more.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:39 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Ya, fairly hardcore.   Maybe Mature-Audience.    The rest sure to be rated XXX though.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

godbless the .999% !  we need 'em! imagine thousands of cathrine austin fitts rising up !  (but i too hope they look more like ms.pham)

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:31 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

I think that decimal does not mean what you think it means.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:26 | Link to Comment putaipan
putaipan's picture

naw... i got it right.

it's really only the .001%'s entrails i wanna see hanging from telephone poles.  the others can do time or cooperate

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

ZH is always EPIC.

  Trust me on this!

 Tyler rocks.....Hard.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

Never ever think your story will be heard if you tell a Gub'ment agency. Remember how many people---mortgage insiders, secretaries, S&P execs, and so on--told the SEC and other agencies about the fraudulent mrotgages......see the result? They did Zippo...Nada......Zilch...Even Madoff said they turned a blind eye to all the fraud.

Spill th ebeans to ZH where it will be published and heard (and read) by at least somebody.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment Awakened Sheeple
Awakened Sheeple's picture

Great job Tyler.. Let's make this go viral

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

ZH now breaking news. Tyler(s), you are extremely influential these days. Keep up the good reporting.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:42 | Link to Comment NOTfromSanFrancisco
NOTfromSanFrancisco's picture

Ditto!... And, Watch your back...

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:14 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

not even the tip of the iceburg -- just wait till the real facts come out.....

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:26 | Link to Comment SMG
SMG's picture

THANK YOU!! Both zh and Lan! I want a better world for all of us, and the kids. You guys are helping with that.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:32 | Link to Comment illyia
illyia's picture

Thank you ZH and WhistleBlowers.

We might have a chance.

Okay. But maybe...

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:37 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture



Zero Hedge just crossed over into full legitimacy.  With that, the MSM players just completely shit themselves.

Welcome to K.M.A. status Tylers!

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:06 | Link to Comment fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

This whole whistleblower thing feels like an orchestrated drama, so that we sheeple will behave in a certain way, when some shit happens.
What is the end goal? I do not know.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:44 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture




I just gave the 100th uptick to the first post.    Why's this important to relay?  I have no idea.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 01:59 | Link to Comment BreadnH2O
BreadnH2O's picture

Pack of smokes and a six pack to the Tylers and Miss./Mrs/Ms. Pham

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Followmelightbulb
Followmelightbulb's picture



Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:08 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture


There is hope.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, and to Ms. Pham as well.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

A PhD with a conscience. There is hope after all.

The truth about Robo Fraud is one big fucking whitewash.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:16 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I have worked with PhDs before and generally I wasn't impressed. What is impressing is moral fortitude. I have filed complaints of fraud with an employer before; its a gut wrenching experience. I only did it after I was pretty sure my ass was gone. I (and the fraud) wasn't important enough to follow me.

This lady carries her balls in an ash can.



P.S. I am biased because I have a soft spot for intellectual asian ladies, particulaly the assertive and moral type.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:18 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Intellectual Asian ladies, you would have a field day in my neighborhood.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:33 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Do they like large men whose names begin with 'J'?

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:41 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

No money no honey.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I think the likelyhood of an educated asian lady with balls in an ash can packing it up to the great white north (aye) to hang out with me is slim to none (as my old man would say - betting on a three legged mule to win the triple crown).

Granted, when I got fish in my skillet, venison in my stew, and I am 1000k miles from the nearest population center over 50k when this bitch unwinds, I might have some market value ... but that is pretty out of the money ... honey.



Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Who knows they may serve up some black swan pretty soon?  Ever consider an Eskimo woman (has a bit of that Asian look)?

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 02:30 | Link to Comment Taffy Lewis
Taffy Lewis's picture

No money no honey no funny.



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:45 | Link to Comment The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



I bet they have a football field day with you at midnight, you intellectually influential ninja Asian-type studly guy you.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:59 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

As they say, the glass is always gleener...

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:17 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Not only a conscience, but competence, integrity, and courage. Her display of backbone is an admirable contrast to the writhing annelids that tried to silence her.

Thank you, Dr. Pham.


Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:20 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You, sir, besmirch every honest and decent non-financial annelid by implication --- even the order Helminthes will not take responsibility for the vermiform vermin of Wall Street.

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:29 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

You are right. While annelids are spineless, this phylum of segmented worms includes many beneficial species, and thus it is unfair to compare them to the treacherous parasitoids of the Wall Street / Vichy DC political/financial cesspool.

I stand corrected.


Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:19 | Link to Comment DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

The two of you sent me to the dictionary!

Genuine LOL - thanks!

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 22:38 | Link to Comment bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

helminthes:worm-like parasites 

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

what kind of worms are in a dogs stool.  I've been told that giving your dog a copper penny is a cheap way to get rid of them

Thu, 03/15/2012 - 23:47 | Link to Comment WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

tincture of parsley if you can get them to drink it.

Fri, 03/16/2012 - 00:01 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Typically, if they are visible and obvious, they will be tapeworms, which are not life-threatening (I have had them myself), and can be easily and painlessly eliminated with one pill.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!