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"Textbook Economics" Quote Of The Day

Tyler Durden's picture


For our quote of the day, we go to none other than the Fed's favorite mouthpiece, the WSJ's Jon Hilsenrath:

Fed officials have been frustrated in the past year that low interest rate policies haven't reached enough Americans to spur stronger growth, the way economics textbooks say low rates should... Multiply the fruit of cheap credit across millions of households—with healthy portions of interest savings spent on goods and services—and the U.S. should be recovering more quickly, according to textbook economics.

No... not the textbooks... Does this mean... Economics 101 is... nothing but one epic lie, based on Ponzi assumptions which work in a world of constant and gradual leveraging, and completely fall apart in a deleveraging world such as the one we have now?

And will the Fed, in its attempt to prove its blind faith in voodoo correct, destroy the real world by stuffing the CTRL-P channel full of increasingly more meaningless electronic dollar equivalents, merely to confirm once and for all that the Keynesian utopia may be an illusion, but nobody will be left to enjoy the aftermath of the biggest lie of the past century unraveling?


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Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:39 | 2538066 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Yes....and that same Ph.D economist said that "sub-prime was contained".

So when are they going to admit they actually know SFA?

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:46 | 2538083 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

i did not have sexual relations with that woman

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:50 | 2538104 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

The invasion will pay for itself with the oil.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:53 | 2538117 surf0766
surf0766's picture

We can increase growth by increasing taxes.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:57 | 2538125 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

We need to go into more debt to solve the problem of too much debt.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:35 | 2538251 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Y = C+I+G+NX.  We should increase government spending during a recession to "pick up the slack" and put people back to work building houses, scratch that, whatever.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:42 | 2538264 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Modern reigning economic theory isn't just wrong, it's the inverse of historical reality, i.e., neoclassical and new classical economics are part of the dominant extraordinary popular delusions dominant at the current. epic Grand Supercycle top:

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:57 | 2538320 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

No, I'm quite confident we will find weapons of mass destruction - CP

The United States government does not authorise or condone torture of detainees. Torture, and conspiracy to commit torture, are crimes under US law, wherever they may occur in the world. - CR

"I'm glad you asked. It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil." - DR

I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency - DC

and AG in a bizzare slip:

I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:07 | 2538348 Rahm
Rahm's picture

ANYTHING out of Geithner's piehole.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:19 | 2538533 Manthong
Manthong's picture

So what does the textbook say about the velocity of money when the stock is of infinite mass?

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:22 | 2538542 mcguire
mcguire's picture

We must speak the truth about terror. Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the attacks of September 11th - malicious lies that attempt to shift blame away from the terrorists themselves, away from the guilty. -GWB

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 05:31 | 2538758 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

We also know there are known unknowns

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:42 | 2538266 Killtruck
Killtruck's picture

These jobs are shovel-ready.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:53 | 2538307 macholatte
macholatte's picture



Junk Silver

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 05:32 | 2538760 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

999 fine!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:23 | 2538407 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

so is Horseshit

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:43 | 2538268 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

I don't know where the stock market is going, but I will say this, that if it continues higher, this will do more to stimulate the economy than anything we've been talking about today or anything anybody else was talking about.
Alan Greenspan

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:54 | 2538311 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Macroeconomics 101 Exam Question

Suppose that the stock market crashes. Which of the following is most likely to occur.
A. The aggregate demand curve shifts to the right
B. The aggregate demand curve shifts to the left
C. A movement up the aggregate demand curve
D. A movement down the aggregate demand curve
E. None of the above. Stock market crashes have been rendered obsolete by the Federal Reserve.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:10 | 2538359 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

F. Taxpayers get hosed again

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 09:48 | 2539178 mickeyman
mickeyman's picture

G. Jamie Dimon gets another bonus

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:58 | 2538128 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

We do not condone nation building.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:03 | 2538142 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

They hate us for our freedom.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:11 | 2538170 Thomas
Thomas's picture

The government made money on AIG and GM.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:23 | 2538211 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Now stop calling me Surely.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:48 | 2538291 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

(July, 2005) "We’ve never had a decline in house prices on a nationwide basis. So, what I think what is more likely is that house prices will slow, maybe stabilize, might slow consumption spending a bit. I don’t think it’s gonna drive the economy too far from its full employment path, though."  b.s. bernanke

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:33 | 2538243 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

They hate us for our awesomeness.  We are the most awesomely awesome country of awesomeness in the recorded history of awesome.  It's really that simple. ;-)

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:04 | 2538150 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

we do not wear condoms when pumping the economy

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:06 | 2538153 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Is gold money?



Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:07 | 2538157 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:11 | 2538173 sumo
sumo's picture

"No risk of that. No risk."

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:24 | 2538215 sablya
sablya's picture

When are these high-flying FVCKS gonna get what is coming to them?  What black swan is going to take a CR&P all over their clever schemes to line their own pockets at the expense of the poor and the middle class.  Why can't we even have a normal market correction without expecting some jack a$$ central banker to come to the podium and promise that the central banks are there to support the markets in case things turn bad.  If ever there was evil embodied in people, it is these people, who have the absolute arrogance to think they can engineer the economy, tailor the market returns, keep the market wolves at bay forever, all the while making themselves rich, rich, rich.  I HATE THEM!!!


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:56 | 2538491 Shibumi2
Shibumi2's picture

The middle class lived off the backs of the poor for decades. Now they are in the same bind and howling like banshees.


Paybacks a BITCH

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:11 | 2538513's picture

Right. The only productive people are unemployed and on assistance. The middle class slogs into the city every damn day just for kicks.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 03:39 | 2538702 i-dog
i-dog's picture

+1 [apparently the only one you'll get!], but with a correction: The western middle class lived off the backs of the workers/slaves of poor nations for decades ... importing gee-gaws and trinkets to [attempt to] feed their self-esteem while offering empty promises of payment in return.

An exact repetition of offering the American Indians a few disease-infected blankets in return for their resource rich homelands ... or of the British (and American) middle-class shipping poisonous drugs at gunpoint into China in payment for tea and teacups, in order to prolong their illusion of "living like kings".

Fucking genocidal hypocrites!! Wake up ... put down the guns ... and get rid of government!!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:25 | 2538220 Stackers
Stackers's picture

" I abandoned free market principals to save the free market system "

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:56 | 2538492 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

To save the village, we had to destroy it.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:29 | 2538552 mcguire
mcguire's picture

lets do the whole village..

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 05:34 | 2538761 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Isnt it somit that is sewn into clothes?


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:24 | 2538218 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Reset everyone's FICO to 700-800 , and let the debt machine roll.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:57 | 2538321 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

ain't it funny how the debt/credit rating machine rolls?

S&P   Moody's  &  Fitch

Experion   Equifax  &  TransUnion

why three?  curious mind's want to know,...

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 01:03 | 2538596 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

EGAN JONES!  or do they not count?


Good things always come in threes?

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 05:35 | 2538762 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

4 in China means death!

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:27 | 2538904 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Haha, that might actually help 40 million Americans better there chances of finding a job!

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:36 | 2538559 cdude
cdude's picture

Mission Accomplished 

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:06 | 2538875 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

This sucker could go down.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:57 | 2538126 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Textbook economics wants bankrupt banks gone, greedy execs gone, bubble home prices popped, politicians at the hands of angry mobs, etc.


Status Quo is trying like hell to hide the reality and *that* is not working so well.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:32 | 2538241 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

No, it's not working so well.

Either the room's getting smaller or the elephant's getting bigger, but either way, the elephant's about to sit on all of us.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:50 | 2538959 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

No stems no seeds that you don't need,

Acapulco Gold is..ssssssssssupp..

...bad ass weeeeeeed.

Wait, thats the truth. Dammit!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:46 | 2538088 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Even my mum told me at 5 years old, to spend my pocket money wisely! Fuck you Bernanke!

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:59 | 2538985 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Oh the Bernank does spend his own pocket money wisely....he listened to his mommy just like you.... so to get his jollys he spends other peoples money instead. That he learned from great-uncle Ponzi.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:51 | 2538089 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

When they are officially employed under the umbrella of  "new economics". If you are to forecast, forecast often......

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:54 | 2538119 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

what a fucking douchebag! anyone at this stage that tries to explain, let alone defend, the central planning of the ILLEGAL MARKET DESTROYING FED should's the WSJ what the fuck do you expect? dismantle the fed asap and let interest rates be determined by THE MARKETS! but hey no one gave a fuck about fundamentals since 2007 and fed flow is the perpetual ponzi scam so what does anyone expect? okay evening rant over.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:13 | 2538139 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

"FREE" FED iPAD APP for your iGagdets you iFUCKTARDS:




Did i fucking smoke LSD-laced crack or is that TeH FeD iPad App¿?¿?¿? now you motherfuckers know where your bail-outs and stolen money (ie taxes) are going toward!!!! Not just TBTF institutions but Apple via THE FED's very own in-house app development team!!!!!!!!



watch THE FED (the private yet public yet private yet public bank with a dot gov url) produced and funded video:



Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:11 | 2538172 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

We need to pass it so we can see what's in it.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:32 | 2538240 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Full employment and stable prices.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:56 | 2538489 northman
northman's picture

"I did not instruct anyone to lend customer funds to anyone.”

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 02:12 | 2538652 hedgehog9999
hedgehog9999's picture

Exactly, but Obummer thought he is great so he gave him the job to really screw it royally!

I'd be really worried if I were him.

With Europe broke, the US pension system nearly broke and on an unsustainable path along with the never ending growing deficits and permanent ZIRP, US infrastructure crumbling,the Gulf polluted and in shambles, Fukushima debris polluting all Pacific Ocean seafood, Mexico as a failed state triggering more border issues, 50M+ on foodstamps, growing obesity rates and a dysfunctional food and drug administration, etc, etc....

Are any candidates even acknowledging these issues?

These guys in charge will be remembered in history if there is any to be had as the biggest disgrace on the planet.... they will rank with Caligula , Nero, Hitler and many other ill remembered historical figures.....

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:43 | 2538068 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Forget economics textbooks!

When the Fed master, Goldman, orders the Fed to print, the Fed must print without asking any questions.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:28 | 2538425 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

No no no....just one question. How much?

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:55 | 2538449 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

FWIW Dept: 

"The Bankers hated the FRB until they established the "1951 Accord" [   ] which was an agreement between the U.S. Dept. of Treasury and the Federal Reserve Bank that restored 'independence' to the FRB!

 Simple? But, what's interesting is how 1913 came into play once again under Truman via Wilson. Please note that William McChesney Martin Jr.'s father, was the 'main man' - who helped forge and write the infamous legislation for the "Federal Reserve Act [System]"! Martin Jr. was ironically the FRB chairman throughout "Five Presidents [Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon] in Office"! Amazing,... simply amazing!!!

Oh, and lest I forget... there was alittle something called the "McFadden-Pepper Act [1927] in-between, if ya know what I mean? Worth a glance.    jmo  

Ps. The Reigie-Neal Act repealled  [   ] the law in 1994... oh, and  btw, these same two shills fucked the american consumers with credit card malfeasance & usury loopholes, thus helping the creadit card companies inact[and] change the bankruptcy laws regarding credit-card debt forgiveness for consumer liabilities! Nice!!!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:41 | 2538072 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

what does the textbook say about trickle down kleptocracy?

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 06:39 | 2538802 bdc63
bdc63's picture

It's right there, in small print in the footnotes ... it says we're fucked to the moon and back ...

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:41 | 2538073 westboundnup
westboundnup's picture


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:41 | 2538074 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Consumers simply do not seem to understand that the solution to too much debt is more debt.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:16 | 2538124 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

so....take all your credit cards and MAX THEM OUT on PM's and when they come for you direct them over to 20th Street and Constitution Avenue N.W. Washington, D.C. 20551; tell em you already got the liquid CNTRL+P infusion!








Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:34 | 2538441 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Direct them to the scene of the boating accident....somewhere just south of Guam.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:02 | 2538129 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

most consumers and most non-consumers simple do not seem to understand that there is no solution.  Literally... there is no way out.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:43 | 2538075 miro1a
miro1a's picture

Yes, the same textbooks used in the same schools, at the same classes that don't teach you how money is created and that you should vote because you're so special.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:45 | 2538079 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hey Hilsendork you can keep rates as low as you want but if you have people who don't want the money or can't borrow the money , and lenders who can't or don't want to lend then the only thing ZIRP will do is make life a lot more expensive for a lot of people. Oh yeah it will ensure banker bonuses too.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:45 | 2538082 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

ZIRP 'N HELL - what the World coming to?

Zero interest rates punish the Net savers and feed the Takers and ticket clippers.

Money must be respected and directed into production not Theft by margin taking.

I will bet all I have that Higher interest rates would spur efficient production caused by the fear of ROE.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:48 | 2538084 NeedleDickTheBu...
NeedleDickTheBugFucker's picture

Healthy portions of interest savings spent on goods and services? Uhh, there is none with ZIRP.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:56 | 2538315 malek
malek's picture

Careful, interest savings is not the same as interest on savings.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:46 | 2538085 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Reads more like an obituary.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:51 | 2538090 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

"... low interest rate policies haven't reached enough Americans to spur stronger growth..." because the banks have been using the liquidity to speculate in the markets insead of passing the liquidity down to main street where it's needed.

Shopping mall vacancies are at their highest level in more than a decade

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:47 | 2538091 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

while they worship at the altar of keynesian macro 101 wringing their hands

they ignore another lesson of 101 - simple supply and demand of labor.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:14 | 2538183 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

We haven't had Keynesian policies, we've had Milton Friedman's policies.  If we had Keynesian policies we'd be hiring more teachers, firefighters, and police officers.  Instead we are doing the opposite of Keynesian policies and cutting government jobs.  Too many folks on this site don't understand economics.  Just because Keynes diagnosed the problem we are in (liquidity trap) doesn't mean that we are following his proposals.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:35 | 2538252 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Keynes never advocated that all stimulation would be of the government variety. Worse, you don't get it- you want to hire more people that are funded by taxes- a loss of productive capital. Yes, monetarism is at fault here, but monetarism is just the next step in a fascist regime as envision by Keynes and the Fabians.

The solution lies in using an austrian solution as found in the austrian business cycle, but that necessitates you eliminate the FED and return to sound money. It necessitates minimum government and a focus on production that yields profits that can be redeployed as capital and investment to build a better economy. 

We don't need more teachers, police or firefighters. We need entreprenuers, we need higher interest rates and we need money that isn't spewed by bankers all over the economy like some demonic pink slime. We need production, not debt.

Economics 101 will always be a failure, as long as Keyne's general theory is taught. It is nothing more than intellectual cover for central bankers. 

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:41 | 2538263 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Keynes advocated for government spending in a liquidity trap.  The spending comes from borrowing at 1.5%, which is paid down over years with economic growth, not from loss of productive capital.  

The Austrian "solution" would be great <sarcasm>.  Once people are in complete abject poverty there is nowhere to go but up.  Thrilling.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:05 | 2538340 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Brain child, who do you borrow at 1.5% from? Create from thin air? or from productive capital that is now used on bonds to finance the debt spending? Paid down over the years? Where did the 15 trillion in debt come from? Better yet, how do you pay down debt that requires interest that is borrowed into existence? We can't even fund our existing costs from revenues.

The austrain solution is draconian, only because the Keynesian/ Friedmanites have push the debt to such extreme frontiers. The austrain business cycle still is the best explanation of our economy under a central bank regime. You want to solve it with unicorns and rainbows? 

We ARE in abject poverty. Have you not done the math? The American Family, on average, has 100 thousand dollars in assets, but each member owes over 250 thousand in debt. How do you define poverty? Now, go global. What happens when the money stops? 

We are not in a liquidity trap, we are in a debt trap. We have liquidity sloshing around all over the world- but NO ONE WANTS IT. It is collateral without value. Pumping money doesn't work. A real economist would know that. 

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:19 | 2538389 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Borrowing comes mostly from the US private sector.  Most of the 15 trillion in debt came from our failure to maintain Clinton's policies and from our economic slowdown.

If you think we ARE in abject poverty then you don't know much about history.  We are still wealthy and can still salvage the situation.  The Austrians would have us be beggars though.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:25 | 2538416 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You're going to borrow from the Private Sector? Who from? Everyone is stashing their money and moving off shore. Have you really not been paying attention to what is going on around you? The wealth of the US is leaving it's shores. 


Clinton's policies were a scam, and that surplus is a tired old lie that has been proven to be false numerous times already.


No we are not wealthy, I am wealthy and you would mean to steal my wealth from me by the threat of force. Get it through your head, it ain't happening, those of us that had wealth have moved it out of your reach already.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:43 | 2538938 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

You are free to leave.  There are plenty of countries out there that have governments more to your liking.  The US will do just fine without you.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:53 | 2538970 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

 The ignorant consumer of both information and goods. The US will do just fine without you. Leave the country to those that oppose fascism.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:37 | 2538448 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Technically, since the FED is a private corporation, funding is coming from this sector, BUT WITH FIAT MONEY. Clinton NEVER decreased the debt by one dollar. While the debt growth was slowed significantly, it had more to do with a tech market that created profits from a  bubble that fed revenues until the market turned down at the end of his term.

You really don't understand the math, do you?

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 05:06 | 2538747 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

"Most of the 15 trillion in debt came from our failure to maintain Clinton's policies and from our economic slowdown."


Congrats. You're the biggest fool I've seen on the internet in the past month. And I look at reddit on a daily basis.


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:21 | 2538393 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You're an idiot, I need not waste anymore time explaining anything to you. My advice stick around and read some more, or head over to and get a real education.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:24 | 2538411 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Why so angry?

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:29 | 2538429 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Who is the angry one? THe one that says that they can openly steal from others in a society because of some tenuous bonds of birthright, or those that object and point out how immoral corrupt and prone to failure that plan is.


One day you will meet someone like me in the street, and then you will understand who is really angry, and who is angry because they are scared. It isn't me son. Your internet tough guy socialist routine may fool your little butt buddies, but I have been at the sharp end of that spear. I know what it is coming already, and I am prepared for it, you, you're fucked.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:42 | 2538267 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Who will teach the entreprenuers, keep their businesses from being raided and stop them from being burned down?  Stop it, that is not unproductive capital.  The reason why we are where we are now is because we are lagging the rest of the world in education, you need a foundation before you can build a skyscraper.  We have now turned into a country that believes it can skip education and a means to protect private property and still create a dynamic economy. It won't happen...

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:09 | 2538356 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

All services that are easily provided by private means, at a better cost and with more liberty. If you think the government is the perfect method of service delivery, than why not have them do everything? 

54% of current college grads are UNEMPLOYED. We don't need more education, we need opportunity that is free of government interference and draconian taxation.


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:23 | 2538403 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

While privatizing everything works well in textbooks, reality is quite different.  

Louisiana Private Prisions

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:31 | 2538434 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

It's not realy private if it's being paid for by the State, now is it? 


You guys are so easy to fool that you're borderline retarded.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:55 | 2538986 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I guess you have never heard of arbitration panels, private security nor private universities and high schools. These all work extremely well and have the added value of being consumer oriented, rather than state oriented. It isn't much of a reality if you never lift the curtain to look inside.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:01 | 2538328 sumo
sumo's picture


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:05 | 2538337 sumo
sumo's picture


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:04 | 2538338 sumo
sumo's picture

"We need entreprenuers"

Oh, you mean like mathematicians, physicists, and engineers? The people you despise as tools of the elite?

Fucktard. Let me guess, you're an economics student.


Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:18 | 2538379 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Since when were mathmaticians, physicists and engineers entrepreneurs? You do not even understand the term. Math is a language, it produces nothing outside a classroom or laboratory. Even math in finance has to do with leverage and risk strategies, not products.

Physicists produce nothing . Without engineers, there are merely mental masturbators.

Engineers? Can be productive, they can even be entrepreneurs, but are usually just the machinists. Entrepreneurs dream, build the dream and create profits. 

I,  am a farmer. I am an engineer, mathmatician and physicist, botanist and chemist, weatherman and machinist. without me, you would starve. Oh yeah, and I am wicked smart at economics, history and political science. 

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:38 | 2538453 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I'm a Physicist. I invented several things, and I'm 100% positive you are using one of them right now. What does that make you?

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:21 | 2538536's picture

I'm not a doctor but I play one on TV.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 01:07 | 2538600 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

What did you invent?

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 09:00 | 2539006 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Obviously, a consumer in this instance. Still, that does not make you an entrepreneur. What did you do with the invention? Was there venture capital? Etc. Vague responses are the bedrock of the lies and innuendo.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 02:21 | 2538661 sumo
sumo's picture

"Since when were mathmaticians, physicists and engineers entrepreneurs? You do not even understand the term...."

You do know, don't you that Silicon Valley was started by physicist? No, you don't.

You are so divorced from reality that you HAVE to be an economics student. A Wall Street skank-in-training.

Thank you for revealing your complete lack of real-world knowledge. You are incredibly suited to your future "profession".


Tue, 06/19/2012 - 07:53 | 2538856 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Robert Noyce does not equate to ALL physicists or even a small minority of them. Of course, using a specific example to a general population is typical of those that are unable to make their argument. There are entrepreneurs in all disciplines, but in general, scientists? Not so much.

All that sumo weight has migrated between your ears. 

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:18 | 2538385 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Friedman was a Keynesian.... 

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:28 | 2538424 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Your statement is just one of the many errors that Austrians are prone to.  I'm old enough to remember when Friedman was the savior of the free marketers from the tyranny of Keynes - and I'm not that old.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:36 | 2538444 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Gee, I guess you never read any of Friedman's work then, because he clearly stated that he was a Keynesian, and later adopted the Supply-Side of Keynes. 


Then there was also that whole Reagan thing, "We are all Keynesians now!!"


I guess Friedman and Rothbard were both lying to us in all of those interviews they gave and books they wrote about each other...


It's obvious you are not that old, you can't even get your facts or history correct, but that is common with you socialists though.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 00:23 | 2538543's picture

"We are all Keynesians now" is a famous phrase coined by Milton Friedman and attributed to U.S. president Richard Nixon. It is popularly associated with the reluctant embrace in a time of financial crisis of Keynesian economics by individuals such as Nixon who had formerly favored monetarist policies.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:46 | 2538947 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Friedman was very open about being an ex-Keynesian. 

His quote, "In one sense, we are all Keynesians now; in another, nobody is any longer a Keynesian." tells us what exactly?  In Friedman's words he was telling us that economists have adopted the jargon of Keynes - but refuted the policies.

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 04:27 | 2538729 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

That is one fucked up post.

Cutting government jobs is EXACTLY what needs to be done - Keynes, Friedman, Krugman, Ricardo, Smith - whomever.

I just puked in my mouth a little including doucheKrug in that list.

I believe many on here DO understand correct, unbiased economics. That is not what we have today; we have political economics, based on vote whoring and ponzi scheming. Robbing money from the poor and giving it to the rich - and confusing the fuck out of the public.

Trouble is, too many douchebags reading the "news" are told/cannot/do not understand basic economics, and cannot/will not break it down in easy to understand explanations to the public. Moreover, they are part of the problem; they are told by their corporate masters NOT to; they are told to confuse the public - already mollified by vapid TV and entertainment, and superficial issues.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:48 | 2538092 khakuda
khakuda's picture

And when it doesn't work time and time again, just keep piling on.

I've earned no interest/coupon for 4 years and you keep telling me I won't earn any for years to come and you want to devalue the purchasing power of what i have. I want to spend money why?

One had to go to Princeton to understand the logic, I suppose.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:15 | 2538186 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Not Princeton.  The University of Chicago.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:48 | 2538093 Father Lucifer
Father Lucifer's picture

Cheap credit's great if you're working, your mortgage isn't upside down and gas is cheap. Sorry I forgot reality doesn't play here.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:51 | 2538100 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The models can't be wrong! It has to be something else. Those damn American citizens aren't spending enough! Well if they won't spend we'll have to cram through a law that forces them to spend, even if they have to go into debt to do it! Call it the Plenty Of New Zombie Investment Act.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:53 | 2538113 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Models are never wrong. And underwear models are even more never wrong

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:37 | 2538253 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Obviously its not the models, they have math so they are most certainly right.  What is wrong is reality, why they hell won't it fit the model...

Tue, 06/19/2012 - 01:09 | 2538604 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

It's the Procrustean Bed. They will fit you to the model.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:50 | 2538103 Jeffersonian
Jeffersonian's picture

PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:52 | 2538107 Jason T
Jason T's picture

it's true.. he's been proven wrong with his idea that when fed funds rate goes to zero, monetary policy could still spur agregate demand.. it hasn't despite the Fed doing all it said it would do.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:17 | 2538193 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

That is the Milton Friedman prescription.  It has failed miserably.  Funny how nobody talks about Milton Friedman anymore even though we are living in his universe.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:52 | 2538108 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

OMG! I been sayin here on ZH for years that the economic textbooks don't apply anymore. The reason? Biflation which is now the default modality governing the macro picture and overriding both Keynesian and Fredman/MMT/Supply-side economics. They are out the window. 

With this degree of distortion due to huge debt and decades of cumulative money printing, even the very rules of supply/demand and price discovery are out the window and non-operative. 

Just this month the official stats confirmed what I've been saying all along: household net worth is plummeting despite spiraling prices. And so is income and full-time employment. It doesn't take hyper-inflation or hyper-deflation to kill the economy: all you need is a little touch of both pulling the beast apart at the same time in an additive effect

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:41 | 2538259 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

well we're only arguing with 5000 years of history here...the irony being of course that this is a site devoted to the sanctity of gold as money no less! (something which i subscribe to i might add.) Anywho economics at it's most basic level assumes two forms to me. One is the Greek form of "household management" the other the modern form of "trade off's." That's why i treat such strident views of an entire academic discipline with a sardonic wit. Simply put "it cannot be true" though we may wish it to be (and i don't think we want that either.) The Fed doesn't simply "not understand why there policy isn't achieving the desired result." what they don't understand is how in understanding the nature of trade-off's which is at the very heart of all economic theory (we reduce rates to zero yet banks cut back massively on lending at the same time)they still haven't "built the better mousetrap." which of course is the "profundity of a gold standard." it obviates the need for theory in economy and simply replaces it with gold--the ultimate "economizer." still..."i hear an above average capital concentration was one unintended consequence of that reality." can't argue about that this time! indeed "does capital even exist under the current form of Bailout Nation"? Sure...we have billionaires...and indeed "we have corporations investing billions as well." but then we have governments investing trillions...everyone trying to borrow even more...and then...and then...and then...

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:52 | 2538112 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

textbook liquidity trap

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:53 | 2538115 Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

The textbooks say nothing about untrammeled criminal fraud. They're about as useful as a doctor checking for head colds in a terminal cancer ward.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:26 | 2538225 sumo
sumo's picture

It is telling that mainstream economists don't study fraud and corruption.

Assuming unlimited greed among enough "market participants" - an assumption which fits reality closely - crime and fraud are rational strategies because the "market participants" who engage in them have a competitive advantage over those who don't. And the ROI on fraud and corruption can exceed the ROI on straightforward investment by orders of magnitude.

So why don't mainstream economists study fraud and corruption? Oh, gee whiz Mr Wizard, could it be that economists don't want to bite the criminal hands that feed them? That economists are useful idiots, bought and paid for, with just enough intelligence to know not to study "risky" topics?



Tue, 06/19/2012 - 08:09 | 2538877 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You obviously have never studied economics. 

Fraud and crime have more to do with government policy and the bankers that write them. It is because of those policies that greed is unhampered by market forces. Even a "mainstream" economist is aware of this. There are many books on the subject as well as studies by various economists.

However, the greed you purport to understand and revile is not as universal as many would have us believe, especially as desribed by Adam Smith. The anthropolgical historians write an entirely different history of culture and mores on the exchange systems developed throgh the last five thousand years.

Why are you ignorant of it? Because like many people, you choose to accept the easy explanation, rather than actually do the research. Why didn't "scientists" question the lack of peer review on GE crops? Or on tobacco research? Or any of a thousand studies that favored corporate products? Does "not biting the hand that feeds them" come to mind?

Get off your pedestal. It's an ivory shit pile and you're sinking in it.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:56 | 2538490 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

ACTUALLY there is a big money making supplement of zinc gluconate that was discovered to be of good use in treating colds amongst children in a cancer ward. I have used it for thirty years now to reduce the length and severity of colds. I WAS AN ASS FOR NOT COMMERCIALIZING it before "Cold-Eze" did it. (sticking shift key)

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:53 | 2538116 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Ponzi economics and massive unprosecutable fraud of a magnitude not seen in history makes talking about why, how, if and when idoitic.

idiotic - insanely irresponsible; "an idiotic idea"

insaneafflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement; "was declared insane"; "insane laughter"

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:54 | 2538118 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

My Finance 101 textbook was written by Abel and Bernanke.  I hated that class!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:04 | 2538149 Catflappo
Catflappo's picture

At least it wasn't Able and Bernanke......    they are two words that surely can't appear in the same sentence

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:56 | 2538123 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

According to "The Secret" if the Fed just believes things will get better they will.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 21:58 | 2538131 bruce wayne
bruce wayne's picture

Don't lump the Fed in with legitimate economists.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:16 | 2538187 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

"Legitimate Economists" ???  Reminded of jumbo shrimp

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:40 | 2538262 knukles
knukles's picture

Like a well aged fart

Say, has anybody considered that if the liquidity trap means that additional liquidity don't work (due to the credibility trap...)

and the fiscal stimuli has already reached a passage of sharply diminishing marginal returns thereby becoming ineffective (money don't buy everything)

that maybe, just maybe, the problem is deleveraging which Must Take Its Course before the system can reboot?

That the banks must be reigned in, the relationship between money and politics reformed?

No takers?
OK back to reading Paul Krugman, listening to CNBS, being monetized to Zimbabwe by Ben....

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:42 | 2538459 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Military Intelligence.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:01 | 2538135 CURWAR2012
CURWAR2012's picture

hehehe...hehehehe...He said "stuffing the CTRL-P channel"...heheehe :0

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:02 | 2538137 mammoth mo
mammoth mo's picture

Textbook -

No textbook is needed to describe what is going on.


The good people who work hard and have savings values are being punished.


The bad people who take bad risk are being rewarded.


When the bad are rewarded and the good are punished - everyone starts thinking and doing bad things.  It's called survival of the now even if it always flames out.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:02 | 2538140 Zodiac
Zodiac's picture

The problem with the statement is that Fed officials don't live in the real world, where uncertainty about jobs, cost of basic needs, and current debt loads (like student loans and other debt) really concern people and inhibit consumerism.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:03 | 2538141 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Knock 100K$ off of everyones debt and give the rest of us 100k$ and raise interest rates to 5%.  Then break-up all the big institutions so they're small enough to fail - and fail the ones that should.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:06 | 2538154 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

LOL, right. And exactly how are the banks going to skim that?

They have no intention of getting money to the 'people'.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:11 | 2538360 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Forward swaps and front-running bonds.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:04 | 2538147 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

As an Engineer, I learned long ago that one experiment is worth more than 1,000 opinions.

These fuckers never seemed to get that concept digested.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:04 | 2538148 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Most social sciences, such as economics, are lies engineered and funded by the industrialists in the first place. Welcome to Hotel California!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:08 | 2538160 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Social science is what the dumb asses that couldn't master the physical sciences gravitate to.

It is, in every way, a steaming pile of dog shit.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:29 | 2538231 bobert
bobert's picture

Or perhaps an economist puts math into words in a more meaningful way than you.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:32 | 2538242 sumo
sumo's picture

Those who can, do math, physics, and engineering. Those who can't, do economics.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:45 | 2538274 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

It is math, physics and engineering that are responsible for modern warfare, the nuclear bomb and power plants, industrial pollution, frankenfoods, big pharma and a list of products that are destroying life on earth- as well as encourage the population explosion over the last one hundred years.

The social sciences? For giving them all cover. 

There are no saints or heroes here. Just tools of the Elites, people working hard to enslave their neighhbors and families. 

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 22:56 | 2538313 sumo
sumo's picture

"There are no saints or heroes here. Just tools of the Elites, people working hard to enslave their neighhbors and families"

you say, using hardware, software, and networks that were imagined, designed, and built by mathematicians, physicists, and engineers.

A thief thinks everyone steals. Looking for the nearest hang-wringing tool of the elite? Look in the mirror.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:25 | 2538414 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

What's the matter? Can't  stand being placed in front of a reality mirror? 

You pompous moron. You aren't a hero and if you are working for the system, you are working for the Elites. Perhaps you enjoy delusion, you probably think you're really, really smart and therefore, better than most of humanity. Guess what? Any imbecile from an aristocratic family can shit down your throat and you can't do a thing about it. 

Make sure you let them know you're an engineer as your choking on that turd, I'm sure they'll be impressed!

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 23:13 | 2538368 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Also responsible for every medical device you've ever seen. Those insidiously clever bastards!

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