This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Thanksgiving Day Open Thread

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With Europe set to close shortly, it just may be the case that the relentless headline barrage of rumors, lies and other European sourced imports will cease at least for a few hours. So while we are awaiting to see what Syria and Iran's (not to mention Russia and China's) response will be to the latest Arab League 24 hour ultimatum, here is today's open thread to kill the boredom until we get a chance to express our thanks for all the selling opportunities about to unfold, and until we get to find out if one can buy that completely unnecessary 9th plasma (for 50% off because in America spending money is saving) while dumping BTPs from a WalMart store at 3am in the morning.

Below: black swan before brining and deep fat frying:

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:22 | 1911164 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Nice, Ralphie. Happy Thanksgiving.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:19 | 1910965 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

Back to Tahrir Square on counterPunch
   by esam al-amin

egypt = 1+2+3, where

  1. = the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF)
  2. = the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) and other Islamic factions
  3. = secular & popular political interests

these factors are working on "the transfer of power from the military to a real civilian government" and it is a bloody mess as the 6 months for the constution to be forged, adopted, and followed was up three months ago

as we take pause to consider our place in the food chain and in the the wealth of persons, families, communities, business interests & combines, and nations,  and to appreciate what we have, and how cool we really aren't in some respects~~in that moment of thanksgiving, when we might lean on heaven a tad more than "normal"~~as we say "Thanks",  the folks in Tahir Square are hoping for a day without tanks

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:41 | 1911059 fuu
fuu's picture

Thanks slewie.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:42 | 1911177 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i punched up tyler's link and started reading about the arab league's 24-hour ultimatum to assad in syria [News from The Associated Press]

wowser!  how about this for some ironic black swan gravy on your wild rice and tangeringe stuffing (paste)?

The Arab League already has suspended Syria's membership over the bloodshed and Syria's failure to abide by an Arab peace plan it signed.

Thursday's meeting took place in a hotel rather than at the League's headquarters in the central Tahrir Square, where there have been clashes between Egyptian security forces and protesters calling for the ruling military to step down.

#OccupyArabLeagueHQ???

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:48 | 1911585 malalingua
malalingua's picture

What??? This is INSANE!!  That is controlling human life.....this is very vexing.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:10 | 1910967 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Hey - I was wondering... didn't the indians and pilgrims give GIFTS to each other on "Thanksgiving?" If we could reinvigorate that sacred tradition, we could have a gift buying season that would stretch from Labor Day to Imbolc! I'm going to get busy writing some new carols, maybe start with  the "90 Days of Christmas" or something like that.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:25 | 1911175 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

We can start calling it Thanks-Getting!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:18 | 1911283 fuu
fuu's picture

On the fourty-seventh day of Christmas my true love gave to me,

47 grains of sand

46 strands of hair

...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:10 | 1910968 Royal Fleming
Royal Fleming's picture

Happy Thanksgiving to all ZH contributors.whose comments continuously bring a smile to my face.I would also like to thank the EU for letting me convert those red candles to US dollars , which are then converted to shiny gold and silver coins. I'd like to also thank the govt. for all the protected species in the country, that will be on your table next year for thanksgiving. I would also like to thank our govt. for not outlawing ammunition, even though its not part of the second amendment. 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:11 | 1910975 thismonkeydoesn...
thismonkeydoesnotdance's picture

Happy Thanksgiving to all my American friends, and to all those who frequent this amazing site (the laugh factor alone is well worth it.... every time Robo opens his mouth i buy a new keyboard.....)

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:20 | 1911004 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Dishwasher safe and impervious to milk or bourbon - or whatever you have for breakfast:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823336002

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:17 | 1911151 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

SP thanks for the link, having a house with many teenagers, no Robo doesn't live with us, I will be purchasing one of these the next time a key board dies.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:17 | 1910986 blindman
blindman's picture

many thanks giving.
.
http://www.archive.org/stream/elberthubbardssc005740mbp/elberthubbardssc...
Full text of "Elbert Hubbard S Scrap Book"
.
No man is in true health who can not
stand in the free air of heaven, with his
feet on God's free turf, and thank his
Creator for the simple luxury of physi-
cal existence. T. W. Higginson.

> *

I love the man that can smile in trouble,
that can gather strength from distress,
and grow brave by reflection. 'T is the
business of little minds to shrink, but
he whose heart is firm, and whose con-
science approves his conduct, will pursue
his principles unto death.

Thomas Paine.

!

I do not value fortune. The love of labor
is my sheet-anchor. I work that I may
forget, and forgetting, I am happy.

Stephen Girard.

Page 223

What divisions, hatreds, miseries, and
dreadful physical and mental sufferings
have been produced by the names of
Confucius, Brahma, Juggernaut, Moses,
Jesus, Mohammed, Perm, Joe Smith,
Mother Lee, etc.!
If any of these could have imagined that
their names should cause the disunion,
hatred and suffering which poor de-
luded followers and disciples have expe-
rienced, how these good or well-inten-
tioned persons wouldhave lament-
ed that they had ever lived to im-
plant such deadly hatred between
man and man, and to cause so much
error and false feeling between those
whose happiness can arise only from universal union of
mind and co-operation in practise, neither
of which can any of the religions of the
earth, as now taught and practised, ever
produce. Robert Owen.
.
links ...
James Brown & Luciano Pavarotti - It's a Man's World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Febr_t_qa9U
.
Tom Waits - "Satisfied"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHn_Kb4Dz40
.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/
24 November 2011
Warren Pollock: Open Letter to the CME

Wednesday, November 23, 2011

Open Letter to the CME
To: Terrence A Duffy, Chairman CME Group

As illustrated by the failure of MF Global, I am of the opinion that, the CME has not met its basic obligations to the marketplace as a “public fiduciary.”

Our society depends on “basic finance” to provide “utility function” such as banking,
hedging, insurance, and/or capital formation. Presently, we have an “innovative system”
that degrades the integrity needed for “basic finance” to perform as required in a
well-structured economy.

Worse yet, our “innovative” financial system impedes the effectiveness of the greater
“physical economy.” The “physical economy,” consisting of all those individuals and
entities tasked with meeting actual need. The "physical economy" consists of
many of your customers including farmers, manufactures and electric companies.

Our society needs people working in the "physical world" to create jobs more
desperately than it needs the continuity of the CME. Must we endure another market
catastrophe to figure this out?

The 2008 bailouts defined “moral hazard,” as the socialization of losses due to
over-leverage. MF Global consumers are currently subsidizing losses attributable to
over-leverage and “innovation.” Perhaps, small percentage moves in speculation
rationalized an internal choice between corporate survival and the sanctity of customer
funds. Complexity has been specifically designed, by “modern finance” to intentionally
allow over-leverage leading to out sized profits and reactively-subsidized losses.

The word, “theft,” comes to mind.

I believe that, the products traded by your member firms, at the CME exchange and
elsewhere, well exceed the capacity of the monetary system to cover relatively small
percentage losses or speculative miscalculations. Clearing OTC derivatives on an exchange

does not, and will not, correct the problem.

With repeal of Glass Steagall, and the conversion of mutual companies to publicly traded
entities, meaningful regulation has proved to be politically impossible to recapture. The

solution therefore resides in simplification from “innovative” towards “basic” finance.

Presently, I would urge you to make MF Global customers whole as a perquisite to market
reform towards a “utility function.” More than just the continuity of the CME may be at
stake.

Warren E. Pollock
....
and ...
Should government pay off our debts?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/default.stm
.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:20 | 1910994 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

German budget committee says to discuss new EFSF guidelines on Monday

German government expects EFSF leveraging to be issue at EcoFin next week

SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK.

Submit, slaves!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15867847

France and Germany plan changes to EU treaties

Germany's Angela Merkel and France's Nicolas Sarkozy are to propose modifications to EU treaties to improve governance of the eurozone.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:19 | 1910998 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

I'm grateful to Zerohedge for getting me into the compulsive habit of buying gold and silver coins.  because it's compulsive, though, this year's budgeted money for iphone 4s, ipad2 and macbook air is gone for the sake of canadian maple leave and australian kangaroo.  The same thing happened last year.  No black friday shopping, no cool toy, stuck with the lousy $60 phone.  Goldbugging is an expensive hobby.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:19 | 1910999 digalert
digalert's picture

Turkey's in the smoker with garlic and onions. May 2012 bring us a bounty of banksters in jail.......... Zero Hedge style.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:45 | 1911071 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

Turkey with garlic and onions??? I had to junk you for that!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:19 | 1911001 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It is good to read George Washingtons thanksgiving day proclamation which launched november 24 as a national holiday, a uniquely American one.

Google it. My android wont cut and paste.

Boycott black friday and lets remember what is really important in our lives.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:42 | 1911062 fuu
fuu's picture

Have a good day tct.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:50 | 1911228 slewie the pi-rat
Thu, 11/24/2011 - 23:41 | 1911285 fuu
fuu's picture

Your's is way better than mine, I bow again to you good sirrah.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:20 | 1911005 Dixie Frank
Dixie Frank's picture

Happy Thanksgiving to US troops stuck in some miserable hell hole. May God bless them and care for their families.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:22 | 1911012 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

to all who have posted on ZH even Bruce and leo and Harry, happy thanksgiving..

ps does anyone have a recipe for nuke fried turkey?? we may all need it soon.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:19 | 1911635 a noun a mouse
a noun a mouse's picture

it's not the recipe so much as the 1 sec at 10,000,000o that is the bitch.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:24 | 1911017 Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

Quick shout out to our British brothers and sisters. I've been watching a lot of BBC stuff on Netflix and, be it drama or nature programming, the quality is outstanding. 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 23:22 | 1912079 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

I just downloaded the new version of Netflix on the Wii and it's buggy as fucking hell!!! Short the shit out of this motherfucker!!!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:26 | 1911021 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Load-up on PM, comrades.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:26 | 1911023 FranSix
FranSix's picture

Thomas Cook deemed 'too big to fail'

"For now, Thomas Cook is too big to fail. The banks have lent it too much money. If it were to go bust, the Civil Aviation Authority, which acts as travel operators’ insurer of last resort, would probably go under, too. Thomas Cook was planning to report its full-year results on November 24th, but it postponed the announcement until discussions with its creditors are complete. The bankers are likely to give Thomas Cook another, though maybe the last, lease of life."

 

http://www.economist.com/node/21540271

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:45 | 1911070 Boston Wealth
Boston Wealth's picture

I leave you with this if you are like me and a market junkie!

So FTSE closed down 12 today, yet the FTSE spread betting for open tomorrow already has them down about 30 for open tomorrow.. not a pretty picture.. you can watch this live and then switch to 6 p.m. when our futures open!

http://www.igindex.co.uk/

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:46 | 1911072 surfeitndearth
surfeitndearth's picture

If Russia attacked Turkey from behind, do you think Greece would help?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:46 | 1911073 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

It wouldn't be open thread without a HAARP story!

Did US 'climate weapon' knock-out Russian probe?

http://rt.com/news/phobos-grunt-climate-weapon-129/

"Russian space experts are struggling to decode fresh telemetry signals received from the stricken Phobos-Grunt probe. Meanwhile, rumors are circulating that America’s ionosphere research site in Alaska caused the spacecraft’s failure."

Don't poke the Bear!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 21:56 | 1911958 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Sure been a lot of interest, by many countries, in checking out Mars..

Would open up a big can of worms, if someone explored Phobos (like Russia.),

now wouldn't it..?? Sort of reminds me of how another country 'discovered H2O'

on another astromonical body awhile back.. Someone keeps letting the 'genie

out of the MSM news bottle..

Happy TG all.. Be safe / well..

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:47 | 1911074 azusgm
azusgm's picture

Here's a new radio documentary for y'all. It is set to air tomorrow, but is not under embargo so you're getting it today.

Mexico's Drug War in Context

http://soundcloud.com/fsrn/20111125hifi

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:50 | 1911082 Ruth
Ruth's picture

I'm thankful that I have the privilege of reading Zerohedge and falling in love all over again!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:53 | 1911088 rumblefish
rumblefish's picture

Where can a guy without a futures account get reliable es quotes?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:54 | 1911094 Royal Fleming
Royal Fleming's picture

One more thought before I bail, fork in hand to family glutton fest.

Freedom can be definded as having no restraint;

Liberty can be defined as having no undue restraint.

In political terms then, the loss of complete freedom is the price we civilized people pay for liberty as defined by law.

Happy Thanksgiving to all..

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:57 | 1911101 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

I'm thankful I don't have a blog to pimp.

Also, thanks for everything, Ty.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:46 | 1911332 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

me too!

both countZ!

happy thanksgiving, everybody!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:37 | 1911564 malalingua
malalingua's picture

me three!

This is like the sale ads for Black Friday. 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:57 | 1911102 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

Have a Wild Turkey on me.

I seriously doubt that the medieval totalitarian regime of Saudi Arabia could last for very long alongside democratic (at least of sorts) Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq. The Kuwaiti dictatorship would  be problematic in this regard as well.

As for Iran, a crucial fact that is never mentioned, is that according to the constitution of that Islamic Republic, the Commander in Chief of the armed forces is not the president but the top Ajatollah. The president is pretty powerful for sure but in effect he is more like a chief of staff to the top dog religious leader. This makes going to war against Iran especially dangerous since the commander in chief of the armed forces has absolute power and can invoke both secular and nationalistic duties from the military and religious ones.

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 13:59 | 1911110 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Hey Tyler:

How about a permanent Best of Zero Hedge Humor Thread?

Here, I will start it off:

................................................................................................................................

Zero Hedge Headline:  Sarkozy Says Iran : "Serious and Urgent Threat"

Zero hedger named Zeropoint reply:

Sorry dickhead, the Iran distraction card is being held by the US.  You will need to get your own get out of economic collapse card.

.................................................................................................................................

LMFAO.

Others?   Feel free to join in.

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1911113 ItsMedicationTime
ItsMedicationTime's picture

Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They’re single-serving friends.

After fighting, everything else in your life got the volume turned down.

Happy Thanksgiving.........

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1911114 ItsMedicationTime
ItsMedicationTime's picture

Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They’re single-serving friends.

After fighting, everything else in your life got the volume turned down.

Happy Thanksgiving.........

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:43 | 1911214 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

I'm thankful you didn't post that 3 times.;)

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1911116 ItsMedicationTime
ItsMedicationTime's picture

Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They’re single-serving friends.

After fighting, everything else in your life got the volume turned down.

Happy Thanksgiving.........

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:01 | 1911119 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

Happy Thanksgiving to Tyler and the gang, and especially to WB7 for sharing all his amazing talent. Cheers!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:03 | 1911123 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Thanks ZH, for the last holdout of free speech and P.C.-destruction.

You're doing more ggod than you know, Tyler and crew.

Keep up the good work!

And thanks to all the comment-posters here. Always funny, thought-provoking, and, despite accusations to the contrary, refreshingly troll-free.

ZH rocks.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:03 | 1911124 Freedomtosayno
Freedomtosayno's picture

With the blessings to reclaim our liberty, good health, to one and all a happy Thanksgiving!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:05 | 1911126 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Here's to the end of an exhaustive bear market rally.

Is the girl in this video michelle caruso cabrera? When bears attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2meSJOjKq6s

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:09 | 1911131 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

How low will the CRB Index go?

When will John Williams finally give up and retire?

How much higher can U.S. Treasuries sky?

The chart is simply astounding.  TLT trading like an Internet stock?

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosetti...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:50 | 1911696 Hohum
Hohum's picture

And the rush to bonds shows that there are very few wealth creators left.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:10 | 1911133 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Wow, what happened to imminent war? Things sure change fast.

I believe this is known as a Turkey Timeout. From Tomfoolery and Titillation.

War post went from Sticky to hard to locate. Whew, panic over.

And right in time for the big dinner, how thoughtful.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:11 | 1911135 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

As Bob Hope would say....Thanks for the mammaries....

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:11 | 1911136 JR
JR's picture

Every year we are treated to alternate versions of the Pilgrims’ story and the First Thanksgiving with the Indians.

Lost in these attempts to derail the real beginnings of an America founded on liberty is the true reason the Pilgrims were tenacious and fearless in establishing their home on these shores: it was the search for a place where they could worship God in their own way. Later, huge waves of Puritans would sweep into the New England colonies and one word would describe their new lives: Freedom.

Their search was for that “city on the hill” recalled by one of the most famous leaders in American history, John Winthrop.

And their First Thanksgiving was celebrated to give thanks to God for guiding them safely to the New World.   The only way we can restore that America they created is by restoring God..

Taylor Caldwell, whose many best sellers include The Devil’s Advocate, Great Lion of God, Dear and Glorious Physician and Testimony of Two Men, expresses my sentiments: “I love my God and my country above all else.  And that is love, not ‘luv.’”

Caldwell wrote in 1971 in Growing Up Touch: An Irreverent Memoir regarding this decaying country where the men have been unmanned by Big Mama: “We can restore the love of God to our children, and teach them His ways and His ordinances and laws. When I observed the hippies on the University of Buffalo campus recently, my first anger was suddenly dissolved into pity for them. They are the Godless, the abandoned, by parents and teachers and the clergy. Their youth made them even more piteous. For their parents and grandparents took away their holy heritage in this age of materialism and affluence, and too many of the clergy have led them astray into secularism.

“They made me think of Mary in the garden, after the crucifixion of Christ. She saw the empty tomb and wept, and when the unrecognized Risen spoke to her gently she said, in tears, ‘They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid Him.’ …

“We have taken away their Lord, and they do not know where we have laid Him. Until they find Him, they and our world stand under threat.”

The OWS movement and the current generation’s groundswell support for a statesman such as Ron Paul give me hope that once again America has found God.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:18 | 1911153 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Right on about Ron Paul...

The real lesson from the Puritan settlers of New England is the separation of Church and State...

No sooner did they arrive than they created a theocracy and persecuted every Baptist, Anabaptist, Quaker, Roman Catholic, and Jew they could find, not to mention the odd Wiccan burned or drowned for good measure.

Thanksgiving to Roger Moore and the creation of Rhode Island/Providence Plantation , which gave us church state separation.

Believe what you want, but leave me the fuck alone.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:35 | 1911199 JR
JR's picture

What you have just said and what I have said, the Founders of the nation, following the lead of the Pilgrims, have made possible.

I might add that while I still have freedom of speech your characterization of these historical events is not only incorrect, it is the kind of logic that leads to the lack of freedom of speech.

BTW, I am not afraid of your words but you seem to be afraid of mine, which leads the tyrants to silence us both.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:57 | 1911244 Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson's picture

I'd like to add that most people of any religious faith (or none for that matter) are generally well-behaved. I admit though, that it took me a few years after 9-11 to finally come to this conclusion.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:41 | 1911425 Redstone
Redstone's picture

What he's really saying is that on an open Thanksgiving thread there should be a law that would shut this guy up. This exchange demonstrates one way tyranny originates.

First: someone is resentful of the words spoken, even though they imply no action. Second: this individual might then suggest that these words are hateful or judgmental and could inspire someone to resort to action. Third: the individual then supports legislation or restrictions to stop “hate” speech (Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center uses a vast organization of “intelligence gatherers “ to root out speech through governmental restrictions and then uses the FBI and other federal organizations to have primarily Christian and conservative speech restricted). Fourth: this process now progresses to where rulers can use restrictions to stop all speech that threatens their rule, such as criticisms of illegal immigration or the ethnicity of the international bankers who control the Federal Reserve or prayer in school that recognizes a higher authority.

It was the Christian influence on the worth of individuals that supported the protections of free speech in America.

The atheists, Marxists, fascists and monarchists supported and support the opposite tradition: state control of everything, particularly speech.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:56 | 1911601 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I thought many of the Founding Fathers were Deists and looked at things like the Christian Bible as superstition. For example:

"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

Maybe that doesn't have anything to do with what you're talking about.

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:42 | 1911680 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

the hitch is brilliant debating this stuff

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 20:33 | 1911876 JR
JR's picture

Perhaps Thomas Jefferson was America’s greatest proponent and strategist for a representative government.  But his extensive correspondence regarding Christianity and the Bible have created literally volumes of conflicting evidence of his exact beliefs; he’s a man who believed in Jesus, who believed he lived, and in a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush he explains his views as being “very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself.” From the Gospels he arranged his own version of the Bible -- The Jefferson Bible.

But the key point to make here is that the overriding belief of the early Founders was that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that a government should be formed which respected the principles outlined in the Bible.

It’s especially clear that the Pilgrims, where the seed of our religious freedom was planted, were extremely devout followers of Christ, as were the Founders. If the principles of Christianity were not included men such as Patrick Henry would never have been involved in the founding for one single solitary minute.

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the Nation’s capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 20:51 | 1911890 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thanks for posting this JR.

Freedom of religion is a very different thing than freedom from religion.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 21:36 | 1911935 JR
JR's picture

There it is, in two small prepositions! Thanks, nmewn. Happy Thanksgiving!!

Fri, 11/25/2011 - 11:28 | 1912872 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I assume you mean Judeo-Christian religion and not other flavors?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:11 | 1911137 MrPook
MrPook's picture

Gaaaaaarg. I just wanted to say gaarg. I'm drunk

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:12 | 1911139 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Black swan is prophecy in reverse.

If a black swan is a statistical outlier event, impossible to predict, a surprise to everyone, and if it is retrospectively seen as the logical outcome of events (hindsight is 20-20),

then how does it relate to the law of prophecy which states

"Prophecy is always fulfilled exactly as it is predicted, but never as the prophecy is interpreted before the fact."

Next black swan is ww3 starting in the Middle East.. as if we can't see it coming...

For prophetic confirmation, check out Daniel 11:43-45

Just for entertainment purposes, of course. Not meant to diagnose, treat, or cure any disease...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:18 | 1911147 devo
devo's picture

These pretzels are making me thirsty.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:19 | 1911154 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

Compared to Iran, the Saudi Arabian basket case the Uncle Sam loves so much, is a bastion of democracy.

The king is at 87 and the crown prince is 78 and he was promoted when the former crown prince gave up the ghost a month ago at 81 years of age. These guys are all sons of Ibn Saud, the first king of Saudi Arabia who produced 45 legitimate sons with 22 wives. The daughters weren´t counted. This medieval system has been a major blight on mankind for decades now and continues to be a darling of freedom and democracy loving U.S. presidents.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:23 | 1911165 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

I'm confused.. did you mean, "compared to Saudi Arabia, iran is a bastion of Democracy?

"Cause if that's what you meant, I'm with you.

Press TV. Way more fair, balanced and objective than any US mainstream media outlet.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:39 | 1911206 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

I forgot the /sarc on and off tags.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:19 | 1911157 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

"Guoguang is among the electrical and mechanical producers nationwide that have developed a major category of China's exports. Over the first 10 months this year, exports in the category totaled $882.45 billion, 63 percent of the nation's total."

"A big proportion of the exporters are OEMs without brand names they can trade on, so they earn tiny profits in their deals, Vaigauskas said. "The majority of the profits go to the international companies. If they (Chinese exporters) would like to grow up, they must do what their international peers do."

Time to give OEM's the boot?

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2011-11/23/content_14146800_2.htm

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:20 | 1911160 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

I will choose not to get trampled by 300 pound black women screaming and throwing anything they can get their hands on at Walmart and Target tomorrow! Stuff your faces today and spend money you don't have tomorrow Amerikah and then go sit at Starbucks and find out who gang banged the Khardashian kunts over the holidays on Facebook! Happy Thansgiving all!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:25 | 1911173 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

You must be bitter for the destruction of Kim's marriage...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 23:39 | 1912097 delacroix
delacroix's picture

I know who gangbanged the kardashians,  it was the NBA

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:24 | 1911168 caerus
caerus's picture

happy thanksgiving all! now bring on the meat coma

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:25 | 1911174 no life
no life's picture

I'm thankful for the Mark Knopfler tapes.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:28 | 1911182 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

I'm thankful for the moment. How bad is it right now, really? We're on the internet! For the time being, all of our problems are sucess problems. Enough to be grateful for right there.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:32 | 1911188 Lord Peter Pipsqueak
Lord Peter Pipsqueak's picture

Happy Thanksgiving you Colonial bitchez!!!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:33 | 1911190 Gyro Gearloose
Gyro Gearloose's picture

Thanks ZeroHedge for being the #1 source of information and endless Wit.

For those who are able it might be a good time to click the Donate button and show your appreciation.

If ZeroHedge ever went down (God Forbid).........I think I would Snap!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:47 | 1911222 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

I can´t imagine that it would be very much of a problem to get rid of a measly 50K bpd of crude that France is buying.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:11 | 1911272 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

France doesn't neet Iranian oil.  It's taking Libyan oil, now.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:40 | 1911208 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

https://twitter.com/#!/angela_d_merkel

 

Happy Thanksgiving boys and girls!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:41 | 1911212 Octavio Richetta
Octavio Richetta's picture

Bloomberg seems to be picking up on TDZH sensationalistic, highly successful style of financial news reporting.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-24/germany-buys-itself-first-class...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:45 | 1911219 tim73
tim73's picture

The real problem is not the eurozone, it is the huge debt auctions from USA. Since it is the biggest markets for bonds, it gobbles up most of the investors' money. Markets are saturating in smaller markets first now but it will hit USA too sooner or later. Then it is game over for USA.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:45 | 1911220 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Enjoy your Thanksgiving Day feast in the warmth and laughter of good friends and loved ones. Perhaps spare a thought for those native Americans who have watched you in disbelief over the years as they remembered their losses on this their National Day of Mourning.

http://www.pilgrimhall.org/daymourn.htm

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:52 | 1911232 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

The EU can be summarized in one sentence...

So many traitors, so little rope.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 22:13 | 1911986 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

Only the EU..??

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:57 | 1911236 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

In other news, Wednesday the S&P 500 closed at exactly 61.8% retracement of the latest magic bear market rally and BAC closed at exactly 100% retracement - which obviously calls for a mammoth rally of fresh kamikaze capital.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:55 | 1911238 WilliamShatner
WilliamShatner's picture

Live long and prosper fellow ZHers!

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:55 | 1911240 xiam007
xiam007's picture

Zerohedge is one of the things I'm thankful for - Happy Thankgiving!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:03 | 1911261 cesarsp_us
cesarsp_us's picture

same here

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:20 | 1911241 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

Happy TnX-Indian-Giv’n lazy fat belly eat’n bitchez (To keep it in Zero Hedge comment style)

Time for the …

The Loan Boat

Where White Man Went Wrong

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:26 | 1911302 fuu
fuu's picture

That's awesome.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 14:58 | 1911249 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Up a buck ninety. Is that the best you can do Europe???

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:02 | 1911260 cesarsp_us
cesarsp_us's picture

happy Tkey Day for all @ ZH

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:17 | 1911281 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

If the Pilgrims had shot a Wildcat instead of a Turkey-I wonder what we would be eating on this day-

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:33 | 1911311 cartonero
cartonero's picture

stir-fry?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:22 | 1911293 Maestro Maestro
Maestro Maestro's picture

Excuse me,

But,

Why are you so stupid?

If we live in a democracy (and/or a republic with a constitution) ,

Why is it that I and my friends, we can print money out of thin air and buy your goods and services with it,

even force you to exchange your property against our worthless fiat (eminent domain),

And YOU, you can't?

Idiot.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:24 | 1911299 rambler6421
rambler6421's picture

Happy Thanksgiving bitchez!

 

libertarian86.blogspot.com

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:28 | 1911305 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

Not an expert on markets but I do realize that the closer to zero the market price of stock gets the more likely it is that it´s indeed about worthless. It´s pretty elementary. On the other hand you can have a question of scams of overissuance of stock in otherwise perfectly viable businesses. This would then eventually be corrected by reverse splits, that is simply writing off much of the worthless stock. A few stock watering scams of this nature to mention would be GE, MSFT, INTC, CSCO. These major stock watering scams are all like 60-80% down from the top of their stock watering fraud of a decade ago and understandably under constant selling pressure as you´d expect stuff in extreme overabundance to be.

Citigroup reacted to this reality back in May by writing off 90% of its stock which is to its credit but other major stock watering scams should follow. The BAC zombie is a case in point. 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:39 | 1911322 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Once it gets to 0, it can only stay the same or go up.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:56 | 1911351 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

On the other hand you have non-stock watering scams like AAPL and AMZN and others who could easily do a forward split, that is giving their stockholders more shares while taking down the price per share. It´s a serious disconnect in the market when you have such polarization between those who need who write off worthless stock and those who need to bring down the price of their stock due to under-issuance. These problems have developed over time and are due to an almost total lack of any law enforcement. In other words, the so called police (whose main purpose is to feed a false sense of security to investors) is totally Mob owned. Crime does pay in this marketplace. It´s a fact that certainly will continue to undermine trust in the market and increase the frequency of its collapses.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:34 | 1911312 penisouraus erecti
penisouraus erecti's picture

The detroit lions are a bunch of punks.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:38 | 1911319 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Happy T-day all.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:40 | 1911323 hedgeyourmind.b...
hedgeyourmind.blogspot.com's picture

What happens when all economic agents are de-leveraging at the same time?

 

http://hedgeyourmind.blogspot.com/2011/11/thanksgiving-dessert-what-happ...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:43 | 1911328 Zaphod B.
Zaphod B.'s picture

My table is a no fly zone...nom nom nom gnom nom...plus a few sierra nevada torpedos.....

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:45 | 1911331 McNoob
McNoob's picture

Happy thanksgiving, fellow citizens of ZH!

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 15:54 | 1911348 wretch
wretch's picture

Eat, drink and be merry, my friends, for tomorrow we die.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:03 | 1911366 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

a little ditty from uk

money's gonna die and go to hell some day

the devils gonna come and inflate it all away

so all my friends at zh of which i am very fond

enjoy your bloody holiday across the fucking pond

:)

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:17 | 1911391 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

that's the fucking spirit!

++

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:13 | 1911496 Zaphod B.
Zaphod B.'s picture

If it werent for u brits, we wouldnt have the day off , so thanks for all the fish!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:43 | 1911575 besnook
besnook's picture

i have a tune for you......rule brittania, brittania rule the waves. at least, the usa has america the beautiful as a fall back position.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:17 | 1911385 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

I mean, you have a four cent stock trading at the AMEX. When you look at major losers of the day in this hallowed marke t you see lots of junk fast heading to zero from a dollar or so. Where is the police I must say. This junk started its trajectory to zero at pretty elevated prices.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:24 | 1911392 Hyper Entropy
Hyper Entropy's picture

Happy Thanksgiving ZH. I'm psyched because we're gonna deep fry a fucking 15 pound turkey in the backyard. Hopefully the fucker won't explode like napalm over Da Nang!

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:29 | 1911407 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

The fraud is absolutely mind-bending.

$250 to zero in five years, well it was at practically zero a year ago.

EEE. Its stock is still convulating wildly just above zero. Where is the freaking police?

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:36 | 1911414 oldman
oldman's picture

An oldman does not celebrate this day

he sits in the forest remembering the history

of genocide against a people that fed pilgrims

welcomed to share the horn of plenty

AND WHAT GRATITUDE ALL OTHER SPECIES MUST FEEL

FOR THOSE SAME PILGRIMS WHO BEGOT ALL THIS

NARROWLY FOCUSED EUROPEAN RACE

This oldman would like to name this day

death and destruction day

in honor of our deeds

but he will stop at HAPPY GENOCIDE DAY!!!

and the sun will shine again tomorrow                           om

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 16:47 | 1911437 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

It´s a celebration of theft, fraud and genocide - values that are held in very high regard today.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:21 | 1911638 Hyper Entropy
Hyper Entropy's picture

Shut the fuck up and enjoy a piece of apple pie.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:38 | 1911565 IQ 101
Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:06 | 1911478 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Interesting how the eating of an animal can save it from extinction. Perhaps we should consume more buffalo. After all, the meat is better for you than any of ther other corn fed, anitibiotic laden, hormone injected meats. There are only ~4000 genetically pure bison left on the planet. This organization is buying the bison yellowstone 'culls' every year on behalf of the adjacent ranchers, and relocating them onto Northern Plains reservations.

http://buffaloproject.org/Buffalo_Restoration_Project/Welcome.html

Eat bison, not turkey.

Hook Line and Sphincter ( ! )J

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:10 | 1911486 Below Zero
Below Zero's picture

Jon Corzine wishes everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Corzine especially wants to thank those that had faith in him and were willing to invest their funds with him.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:11 | 1911488 sockcutter moto...
sockcutter motorforker's picture

those of you who bought silver at 40/oz: how does it feel to be a semi-failure: not too bad, but definitely not good?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:53 | 1911700 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

Having bought it for under 10 for so long kind of dulls the pain.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 21:33 | 1911931 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Funny how trolls only look at the percentage drops from highs in PMs. I guess they didn't notice the 10-fold increase..........did all of us just suddenly decide to jump on the PM bandwagon at its height? Or perhaps we got in several years ago, and maybe we are not losing sleep over whether or not Corzine (or Congress) is gonna steal our money? Fuck off, trolls.    It's 8 o'clock: DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR CASH IS?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:14 | 1911499 chaartist
chaartist's picture

last dinner before war starts. enjoy

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:19 | 1911517 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

The market works fine if it has a level playing field. You got to have a referee to have a fair game. A referee that is present also gives you the impression that you´re watching a fair game. But what if that referee was picked by those who have interests in the outcome of the game? Goldman Sachs regularily mans the Treasury Department with people that nobody elected so where do you think the so called stock market police has been coming from? Right. It isn´t a level playing field. It´s biased toward fraud and theft and the so called police is totally mob owned. Its only purpose is to create false security in the market to maximize the profits of its mob owners.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:59 | 1911539 malalingua
malalingua's picture

"It's not happy people that are thankful, it's thankful people that are happy."  BE HAPPY!

I am also Thankful the Federal Government is CLOSED today! 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:35 | 1911556 Salah
Salah's picture

Hate to break it to you, but those 'tribal gaming' tents on the roadside in New Mexico.... well, they've become gigantic casino resorts that would put Vegas to shame.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:37 | 1911560 Odin
Odin's picture

Happy Thanksgiving America... Make it a fun one, a turkey may cost $300 next year lol...

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:49 | 1911587 Skyprince
Skyprince's picture

I was lost in cyberland...groping and feeling my way in the dark...and then found ZH!  For that...I am thankful!  My only hope is that Tyler and ZH just say "no" when approached by CNBC with the proverbial "offer you can't refuse."  

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:56 | 1911600 Goat Cheese Please
Goat Cheese Please's picture

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you on ZH.  I have learned so much from many of you and am truly grateful for the education I receive here.

At this point, I don't know what scares me more...the drums of war beating in far away lands, the prospect of broader civil unreast here in the States, or Mohammed El-Arian finally shaving his moustache.

Cheers to all.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:57 | 1911603 Tick By Tick
Tick By Tick's picture

http://www.tickbytick.co.uk/home/bloomberg-heavy-hitters--.html

Bill Gross and Larry Fink  - Full hour video on their views on the Global Economy

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 17:57 | 1911604 Tick By Tick
Tick By Tick's picture

http://www.tickbytick.co.uk/home/bloomberg-heavy-hitters--.html

Bill Gross and Larry Fink  - Full hour video on their views on the Global Economy

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:05 | 1911615 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

This criminal enterprise that has been in control of governments and financial markets is at the end of its line. By now almost nobody would take their provocations and false flag operations seriously. That´s a very big problem in the face of gigantic ongoing debt liquidation and collapsing prices of overbundant commodities.

This criminal enterprise has never been pro-active, this would have been contrary to its business interests. Instead it has been reactive, constantly reacting to crises that it itself has created. It´s a scam that is way oversold and most people realize this which explains now the desperate and psychotic war clamor.

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:15 | 1911617 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

Happy Thanksgiving

Bonne Action de grâce

¡Feliz Día de Acción de Gracias!

Herzliche Danksagung

Glædelig Helligdag

Vrolijke gedenkdagen

God Helgdag

Wszystkiego najlepszego z ozkazji Swieta Dziekczynienia

(I don't know how to put the Mandarin and Japanese here - it shows as '?'. Paging WB7)

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:15 | 1911628 css1971
css1971's picture

A couple of moral and ethical points with respect to a nation's government and debt.

  • In terms of national security is it wise that the state should be able to sell it's debts to foreign nationals or institutions? Doesn't that give them undue influence over the operation of the state? Particularly if they amass a sizable amount of them.
    • The removal of two, elected premiers is evidence of this. The prevention of a referendum also.
  • Should a particular government be allowed to create debts which can be passed on to a generation which had no say in the creation of those debts?
    • It is a form of future slavery gifted from the past.
    • It is the abdication of responsibility for the present; literally the transfer of freedom from the future to the present. Freedom and responsibility being the two sides of the same coin.

Should a government then be allowed at all, to run a permanent deficit?

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:38 | 1911668 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

It´s never a good idea to be a slave to your creditor but like 2000 years ago when the Romans overran their creditors and thus abolished their own debt - you will continue to see the same familiar policy. It´s of course hopeless in the long run since you´ll run into increasingly strong opponents in the face of preserving and delaying  your bankruptcy,

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:44 | 1911683 oldman
oldman's picture

OK, dudes

I usually do not have anything to sell, so please allow me this simple indulgence       om

 

Occupy Abundance





Dear Turtle Island Friends and Colleagues,

     This infamous celebration of genocide must be transformed next year into a Homeplanet 

 


Gratitude Day whereon we humans express through action everywhere our gratitude for being 
on a planet so swiftly capable of abundance for all and also our thanks for such a wide variety 
of magnificent lifeforms.

 



                                  Yours for all our relations,




       

 




                                                                         Ro-Non-So-Te                                                                             Mohawk Elder

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:48 | 1911689 non_anon
non_anon's picture

Hangman, hangman, hold it a little while,
I Think I see my friends coming, Riding a many mile.
Friends, you get some silver?
Did you get a little gold?
What did you bring me, my dear friends? Keep me from the Gallows Pole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFCeKJhojG0&feature=fvst

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 18:57 | 1911708 css1971
css1971's picture

Just one thing to say about thanksgiving.

Poor turkeys.

 

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 19:28 | 1911781 reader2010
reader2010's picture

According to USDA, about 250 million turkeys just died for your pleasure today. Giving thanks to those suffering animals. 

http://www.meatvideo.com/

Thu, 11/24/2011 - 19:40 | 1911796 Mr_Wonderful
Mr_Wonderful's picture

Reiteration, the supreme commander of Iranian armed forces is the religous leader of the country, not the so  called president.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!