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There Goes Greek GDP: Nazional Lampoons Greek Vacation Just Got Cancelled

Tyler Durden's picture


As if the Greeks haven't suffered enough from Northern European actions (admittedly in response to their own actions), it seems the anti-German sentiment is keeping the wealthy tourists away from the beaches. As Reuters notes today, 'German tourists are in short supply in Greece these days, frightened away by reports of visceral anti-German sentiment in some places'.  Data for the main summer holiday season shows pre-bookings from Germany down by some 30 percent. We guess the pictures of Molotov cocktails being thrown, city-wide strikes, and cardboard cities full of unemployed youths was too much but as one Greek tourist-shop-owner clarified "They're not coming because of the problems. But we don't have a problem with German people, only their government." Tourism - the one remaining possibility for Greece to drag themselves out of the quagmire (aside from olive oil and yoghurt) - is now under pressure as The Germans ("That's just the way Germans are: if there's trouble in some country, then Germans just don't go there on their holidays.") wage "an economic war against Greece". Sadly the xenophobic and nationalist tensions are indeed rising (as we warned many times in the past - and suggest will be the ultimate undoing of the political compact in Europe) as the crisis had revived anti-German sentiment from World War Two that most thought had long since disappeared. "The Greeks moved on and tried to forget, then this. If you ask me, Germany owes Greece billions for all the murders and war crimes. Germany should pay Greece what it owes."


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Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:40 | 2374995 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If I were German, I would be too worried to go to Greece.  Need only 2% of an angry population to ruin a place.  There are lots of other places that would welcome German tourists.  Come to the USA!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:49 | 2375017 Quintus
Quintus's picture

I just love being 'Welcomed' into the USA like a f*cking criminal by the immigration authorities.  Really makes you feel like they're happy you've chosen to visit.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:54 | 2375029 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Ja ze austerity is zound fiskal practice, and ze Greeks vill emerge stronger from ze crisis zan zey vere before!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:20 | 2375093 BORT
BORT's picture

What doesn't break us will make us stronger

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:52 | 2375163 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

work sets you free

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:06 | 2375351 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

If the Greeks hadn't thrashed the Italians - then submitted to Brit military occupation - they would never have been invaded by Germans wearing grey. It's their own damn fault. Then as now.  

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 04:10 | 2375828 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Why would anyone like to spend his vacations in a country where everybody just wants to rip you off. Greece is worse than most places when it comes to rip offd from taxi drivers, restaurants, bars, beach chairs etc.

On top of that it is more expansive than similar places and noone knows if the plane home will actually depart due to strikes or not.

Let the Greeks sink in their own shit until they learn how to run a country.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:11 | 2375069 Solarman
Solarman's picture

Stupid comment.  I travel everwhere, all the time, and I see more sub machine guns in Europe than I ever see in the U.S.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:21 | 2375095 CH1
CH1's picture

Not a stupid comment - foreigners entering the US are fingerprinted, etc.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:55 | 2375177 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Also he clearly  hasn't been to NYC lately.

More than an occasional MP5 brandished by the Hercules unit here.

Not to mention helicopters five nights a week. WTF

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:22 | 2375100 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Ya, like the Ramblas in Barcelona.  Not that the Guardia could hit anything, but "spray and pray" could getcha even so.

- Ned

{Greenie on 'ya.  Probably the junkstaz haven't been out of their mom's basement enough to see the "big scary guns" that they think you are talking about}

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:32 | 2375121 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Nowhere else in the developed world do I have to pay for a permit to enter the country and then send all my personal details to their government before I am even allowed to board the airplane.  Nowhere else am I bodyscanned, groped and generally made to feel like a non-person by the immigration authorities to the extent that I am when entering the US.  

I suspect you are from the US and benefit from entering other countries with more sensible attitudes towards foreign visitors.  Be assured that the US does not extend the same courtesy to its visitors from overseas.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:45 | 2375321 macholatte
macholatte's picture


Travel Tip: If you want to enter the USA without any papers or documentation of any kind just go to Mexico and then simply walk accros the border.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:46 | 2376116 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

You forgot the license to steal.

Ive personally had electronic items taken from checked baggage 3 out of 3 times with a little card that says DHS was here. All claims are denied, but the pattern is there.

I now dont fly, fuck the TSA.

Fuck the shitbags in W Bush admin that created the department of confiscation to save me from my own property.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 05:18 | 2375869 justinius1969
justinius1969's picture

The Brazilian authorities have the right idea.. good on them I say! 

A Brazilian judge has announced that US citizens will be fingerprinted and photographed on entering the country.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 23:37 | 2375559 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Most of the ZH posters who constantly bash the US have never traveled farther than their PC.   If they had, they'd know the stark difference between, say, Morocco, Jordan, Greece or India and the US.  They'd know that the average Joe is desperate to enter this nation.   I've seen guns in Europe but Central and South America look like the final leg of weapons trafficking.  Last time in Costa Rica (the most liberal and modern) soldiers in black masks with submachine guns "accompanied" our tour to the rain forest.  It was, of course, for our own safety. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 04:42 | 2375846 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Which state is PC?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 10:46 | 2376599 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

i can say you don't travel at all from your dumb comment

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:16 | 2375293 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

I just love being 'Welcomed' into the USA like a f*cking criminal by the immigration authorities.

I do too .... and I'm a US citizen.  It's easier for me to enter an EU country as an American visitor than it is for me to enter/depart my own country.  Such is the sad state of affairs in the Fascist Totalitarian States of America


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:24 | 2375303 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Who wants to visit the Kenyan's gulag where tourists get robbed and shot by his voters?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 06:52 | 2375952 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

It wouldn't be so bad if it was just on the way in.  The problem is that they are checking you on the way out, soon to see if you owe the federal government anything...


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:51 | 2375021 SHEEPFUKKER

Riot TV.....coming to a cable subscription near you. Watch it live in the comfort of your own home. No need to get gassed or beaten in person. 

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:27 | 2375105 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

trying to come up with a network "Recreate '68"-->viz. R68.  Not a TLA network, but it is still three ;-)

- Ned

{OT, I'm sure hoping that you don't swing in the porcine direction--right????}

{{but don't worry, I have it on good authority that "Sheep LIE!!!"}}

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:29 | 2375306 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture


Does the Riot Dog get his own show?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:00 | 2375041 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Germans are showing themselves to be some of the more astute people on the planet these days.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:57 | 2375182 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

...Except for the part where they loaned all those euro to Greeks, Portugese, Spanish, Italians, French, etc.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:02 | 2375045 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Like me they would probably object to being groped by your border police. Not to mention groping my wife and terrorizing my kids. I for one will never visit the US again. When we travel to Europe we make sure to go via Asia. You have gone completely nuts after 9-11 with regard to security. And you all just bend over and take it. Unbelievable!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:21 | 2375089 FREEEEEEEEEDOM

Totally agree, aint worth the fuckin hassle, if you dont bow down to some lowlife agent you could be detained for life. I aint playing those odds cause i have a tendency to get a little mouthy around authorities. Edit: The harrassment even starts at home these days. Is it any different if you go by boat over the atlantic or are they as douchy in the ports as they are in the airports?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:22 | 2375448 Maxter
Maxter's picture

I went by car a couple of week ago and it wasn't that bad.  They asked a couple of weird questions about where I got my money to pay for this trip (I work?) and they took our oranges.


I will keep avoiding bording an airplane to the US though.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:46 | 2375149 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

We don't all just take it. Many of us have stopped flying or attending sporting events where the inhumane groping is condoned. Too many of us are sheep, true. But there is a significant minority of us who hate it.

We keep fighting, but we don't always win.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:41 | 2375470 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


agree completely. I NEVER go where I will be searched. I leave if I see I am going to be searched. Have not been to a concert in years. I fly once or twice a year to Asia and have to calm myself before the airport experience. I am ashamed of the way we allow ourselves to be treated. When I was (much( younger I loved to fly. Now it is the worse thing that happens to me all year.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 04:07 | 2390440 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Thanks, Vegas.

The wife and I are big Boise State fans living in GA. Have been for a few years.

When Boise came to the GA dome last year, we couldn't afford to attend b/c I teach. Tickets for that kind of thing can be pricey. But my folks were willing to slide us a few hundred bucks to buy some tickets since we don't get out much.

My wife was thrilled. But then we looked at the GA dome's policy of frisking everyone who entered the stadium and told mom no thanks. It was sad, but it was what my wife wanted--to avoid being groped--so we stayed home and watched online (we don't do cable TV either). We haven't flown since the TSA started their shit in the airports. And we didn't go see the Boise game. She really wanted to meet Kellen Moore, ha. Guess she'll have to make do w/me.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 00:00 | 2375597 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The USA is like an ex-Soviet and African shithole police state.  I think the Soviets and former communist eastern European countries border people were probably much nicer than the vermin at TSA. 

I would bet Soviet-era Czechoslovakia (now Czech Republic) was much nicer to live under than Oba-Holders Zimbabwe 2.   The Czech people are not feral animals and are far more literate than the majority of "americans."

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 04:44 | 2375849 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

To me the US immigration procedures are a copy of former East German  immigration procedures.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:37 | 2376133 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Same broken banks, same incompetant electorate, same broken fascist procedures.

There are no accidents.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:18 | 2375086 hadriansnightmare
hadriansnightmare's picture

Yeah, come to Baltimore-Just make sure you don't get drunk and mind your own business.  Quickest way to become a victim.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:09 | 2375202 Arnold Ziffel
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:48 | 2375476 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

That at least was an unusual event, Baltimore has been like that for decades and its commonplace.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:46 | 2375151 Waffen
Waffen's picture

"Sadly the xenophobic and nationalist tensions are indeed rising"


Why is this sad? Isnt it normal to care about people like yourself more then people unlike yourself? Greece should be for Greeks and they should do whats best for themselves. 


Globalism/regionalism is bad uhm k.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:43 | 2375401 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

I agree in theory, but I think we're going to see it reach extremes that will become very ugly indeed.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 04:45 | 2375851 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Better to have a war than to pay for generations for lazy Greeks.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 06:43 | 2375942 Bag Of Meat
Bag Of Meat's picture

Better to have a war than to read retarded ignorant comments

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 03:17 | 2375809 YuropeanImbecille
YuropeanImbecille's picture

The problem is that then the zionist Divide & concquer does not work as effectivly anymore, and we will run these fucking bankers out in the sea and hang their co-conspirators.


That is why it is a problem, a ethnically homogen society is a sound society a productive and happy society, this can not be tolerated by the interest rate moneymen zionist swines.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:59 | 2375184 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"the ultimate undoing of the political compact" is akin
to undoing fascism once it got en vogue as not only practical but aesthetically universally accepted.

Symbolism lives on, on its own because of aesthetics. Alive
and ready to reproduce to start kicking.

Lot`s of pretty symbols showing up in nations rearing their
ugly heads.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:30 | 2375234 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Only visit the U.S. if you speak Spanish and don't mind TSA crotch grope and body scan.

Don't go near "the hood" in any town either if you are White because "it's your fault".

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:43 | 2375256 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

I do speak Spanish ebwi and I'll go to every hood, mission required. :-)

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:05 | 2375431 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

O.K., O.K., if you have money and are buying you may get a pass.

Most hapless tourists don't understand though.

Just a caveat for the innocent ones.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:46 | 2375474 Usura
Usura's picture

Germans can still go into Greece.  But it might be prudent to send a contingent of Einsatzgruppen in first.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:22 | 2376095 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Einsatzgruppen always came after the army first conquered an area.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:03 | 2376674 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

an entire KampfGruppe i think is better ;)

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:41 | 2374997 jag
jag's picture

"If you ask me, Germany owes Greece billions for all the murders and war crimes. Germany should pay Greece what it owes."


Ah, I love the smell of entitlement in the evening.......

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:02 | 2375044 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Not only that - it's the gift that keeps giving. Or at least, so the Greeks would like to believe.

The Greeks have received substantial WW2-related compensation. Yet, it's somehow never enough.

It's like a Hells Angel lending you money. No matter how much you pay back, somehow "interest" always outgrow your payments.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:45 | 2375147 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Ah, the other 1%.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:50 | 2375158 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Yep. The time to negotiate reparations and collect them was 4 generations ago at the end of the big game.

Too late now to renegotiate the contract (with a bunch of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the original grievance)!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:46 | 2375261 israhole
israhole's picture

Got that right!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:48 | 2375264 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If you love the smell of Greek entitlements then just imagine the smell of U.S. entitlements that come under the heading of unfunded liabilities.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:41 | 2376148 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Generational entitlement, the same thing niggers inc in the US are always crowing for.

White man had slaves, now 6th gen slaves demand reparations after the fact.

Fucking blow me.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 09:04 | 2376245 gared44
gared44's picture

Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks - Sir Winston Churchill. During WW2 Greece suffered (relative to it's population) the largest losses compared to USSR, Great Britain, France etc. Greece will come back from its ashes once again...

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:07 | 2376686 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

yeh... you the greeks are still victim of your glorious past.... fucking 2500 years ago you've been great. FACT

it's 2500 years that your country is just a shithole invaded by every great empire that has passed close to you....

dream about reborn from ashes... dream....

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:44 | 2375007 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Hello Blondie, thank you for your payment for civilization ;)

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:48 | 2375010 Pretorian
Pretorian's picture

Not only Greeks are in fight with Germans and rest of North European countries but with their neighborring countries as well. On bring of war with Turkey on East , Macedonia on North, Albania on west and with Northern Africa regarding immigration on south. Something must be special with this nation called Greeks, it is time for there military to hit the  street .

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:04 | 2375193 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

And before that they have stood against every tyranical bastard that wanted to conquer her from repeated attacks by the Persians, the Ottoman Empire, the Germans and now the Germans again.

Perhaps Greece should have let all of these conquerors through and you would now have a Europe and perhaps a whole world without democracy and full of despots, dictators and feudal peasants. Not to mention minarets and veiled women.

Your poor English (which I am not condemning) does nevertheless betray your ethnic origins and in turn I ask you, why is Greece being inundated by Slavo Macedonians, Albanians and every other lost soul? Simple, the Slavic Republic of Macedonia and Albania are still hell holes from which people are trying to escape. 

Greeks carry a fair percentage of the blame and unfortunately they will carry the bulk of the suffering because that is what small nations always cop. Let that be a lesson to others.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:46 | 2375012 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

People are just plain stupid. All Greece has are a few wharfs, olives and tourism. With Baltic Dry Index constantly making new lows, building boats is out of the picture. The olive market is saturated by non-Irish PIIGS. Tourism, as it seems, is now ruined by the Greeks themselves. 


Have a nice, life long poverty, Costas.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:13 | 2375078 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Greece has tremendous natural resources which have either not been developed due to incompetent governments or even sold for a pittance by corrupt politicians.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:29 | 2375115 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture



There is a fallacy that makes people think that because you have X elements or X compounds readily extractable in the ground you ought to be a wealthy society. That is not so. Not seldomly are producers of raw materials the poorest countries. Making stuff or providing services, thats where its at, not providing raw materials.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:41 | 2375140 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Whilst services and making stuff is a definite plus you forget two things.

Firstly, Australia us doing well ONLY because of its mining production sales to China and Japan and would have been in the doghouse without those sales.

Secondly, mineral rich countries that have poor populations are usually controlled by dictators who in turn are supported by foreign corporations and foreign governments. The wealth does not trickle it just gushes up.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:39 | 2375782 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

"mineral rich countries that have poor populations are usually controlled by dictators who in turn are supported by foreign corporations and foreign governments"


You mean like controlled by a Brussells appointed Goldman Sachs technocrat?

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:12 | 2376713 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

so it's the whole south america controlled by bruxelles tecnocrats?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:06 | 2375195 noses
noses's picture

Natural resources? Which ones eactly? There is not much demand for sheep and goats as sex toys outside Greece these days. There is a reason why even Albanians are running away in masses.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:02 | 2375280 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Rude you are noses, but on the demand side entirely wrong,
all other fellow goat keepers that way you are probably right on and don`t nail me on religion. And surprise : Hellenics as in "all equals" you will find one in a (Per)cent by now. All the wrong eye color and physiognomy , arian nation no more, olive growing all the better for it.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:48 | 2375788 nicxios
nicxios's picture

Bauxite, for one thing. Get your head out of the mass media's ass.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 05:50 | 2375894 Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

You say bauxite? And what is Greece waiting for to start mining and competing with Brazil? Ah yes, they are waiting the German dole check to clear.


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:18 | 2376735 noses
noses's picture

Sorry, but I still had geography classes at school. And if I remember correctly, the quality of the Bauxite in Greek will – at curent production levels – justify digging for it in about 70 to 80 years. Trashcans of industrialized African countries are richer deposits of Al for that matter.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 23:27 | 2375527 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Character and competence always trump incompetent characters.  That is Germany vis a vis  Greece in a nutshell.  And just as the bum on skidrow will never be rich, (even if he wins the lottery), so it is with improvident, imprudent nations.  

That is the way of the world.  And the whining have-nots spend their time stomping their feet instead of doing what has to be done, even if it takes generations.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:48 | 2375015 gerryscat
gerryscat's picture

"Germany owes Greece billions for all the murders and war crimes" (from WWII)

Since when are grandchildren responsible for the actions of their grandparents? And we're taking about actions from decades before the grandchildren were even born! You want to explain that one? 

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:53 | 2375024 pcrs
pcrs's picture

They just try the old guilt/redemption trick with Germany , like the French have been doing for years as well.

It's about time that stopped working.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:54 | 2375026 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Oh, the grandchildren will be responsible for the actions of their grandparents all right.  Wait until the grandkids are burried in debt so deep it would take 3 lifetimes to pay it back because it got spent by the grandparents.   We are starting to witness that now.  It will only get worse.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:06 | 2375284 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

That will make for angry toddlers, I presume..

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:44 | 2376164 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

We are well past 3 lifetimes already, servitude-scotty.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:13 | 2375080 BORT
BORT's picture

Try slave reparations in US.  Now that has been a long time, and my forefathers fought to free them.  My Dad and uncles were in Germany during the war.  Pictures of camps and all.  Disgusting.  You don't get rid of that in a generation

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:28 | 2375113 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The interesting thing is that the cost of the US civil war was far more than the cost of compensating the slave owners for freeing their slaves. Unfortunately war has the same attraction that light globes have for moths.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:32 | 2375123 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Do yourself a favor and read James Bacque's Other Losses.  And then try An Eye for an Eye.   Your smug ignorance of the realities of war is too typical of the US citizen.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:11 | 2375201 BORT
BORT's picture

Yes, war is very ugly.  My father was with Patton and told me as much.  I was not familiar with your author, so thanks for bringing it up.  My point still is, you don't get rid of these feelings in one or two generations. 


Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who helped edit Other Losses, wrote I quarrel with many of your interpretations, [but] I am not arguing with the basic truth of your discovery and acknowledged that Bacque had made a "major historical discovery", in the sense that very little attention had hitherto been paid to the treatment of German POWs in Allied hands. He acknowledged he did not now support Bacque's conclusions, but said at the American Military Institute's Annual Meeting in March, 1990: "Bacque has done some research and uncovered an important story that I, and other American historians, missed altogether in work on Eisenhower and the conclusion of the war. When those millions of Wehrmacht soldiers came into captivity at the end of the war, many of them were deliberately and brutally mistreated. There is no denying this. There are men in this audience who were victims of this mistreatment. It is a story that has been kept quiet.[4]

However, in a 1991 New York Times book review,[5] Ambrose also claimed that "when scholars do the necessary research, they will find Mr. Bacque's work to be worse than worthless. It is seriously - nay, spectacularly - flawed in its most fundamental aspects. [...] Mr. Bacque is wrong on every major charge and nearly all his minor ones. Eisenhower was not a Hitler, he did not run death camps, German prisoners did not die by the hundreds of thousands, there was a severe food shortage in 1945,[6] there was nothing sinister or secret about the "disarmed enemy forces" designation or about the column "other losses." Mr. Bacque's "missing million" were old men and young boys in the Volkssturm (People's Militia) released without formal discharge and transfers of POWs to other allies control areas."

A book-length disputation of Bacque's work, entitled Eisenhower and the German POWs, appeared in 1992, featuring essays by British, American, and German historians.

One of the historians in support of Bacque was Colonel Ernest F. Fisher, 101st Airborne Division, who in 1945 took part in investigations into allegations of misconduct by U.S. troops in Germany and later became a Senior Historian with the United States Army. In the introduction to the book he states "Starting in April 1945, the United States Army and the French Army casually annihilated one million [German] men, most of them in American camps . . . Eisenhower's hatred, passed through the lens of a compliant military bureaucracy, produced the horror of death camps unequalled by anything in American history . . . an enormous war crime."

Despite the criticisms of Bacque's methodology, Stephen Ambrose and Brian Loring Villa, the authors of the chapter on German POW deaths, conceded the Allies were motivated in their treatment of captured Germans by disgust and revenge for German atrocities.[7] They did, however, argue Bacque's casualty figures are far too high, and that policy was set by Allied politicians, not by Eisenhower.[8]

Nevertheless, Stephen Ambrose conceded, "we as Americans can't duck the fact that terrible things happened. And they happened at the end of a war we fought for decency and freedom, and they are not excusable."[9]

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:02 | 2375347 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Don't worry. Whether or not Ike let German POWs die after the war, good ' ol Uncle Joe Stalin killed hundreds of thousands of German POWs in uranium mines, or let them die in prison camps, or whatever, between 1945 and 1952.

Plenty of German civilians died of starvation, disease, exposure, or were just flat out killed in 1945-46, too. Maybe as many as 3 million.

I'd say the Germans paid pretty well for their mistakes.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:57 | 2375489 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Ever see pictures of Southern soldiers in Union camps? They looked the same as what was found in German camps, no difference at all and neither was the treatment. Well, you have the government your ancestors fought for and may it crush you.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:17 | 2376731 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

why instead you dont pay back for what you did to indians?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:16 | 2375084 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

gerryscat                2375015

Germany owes Greece billions for all the murders and war crimes" (from WWII)

Since when are grandchildren responsible for the actions of their grandparents? And we're taking about actions from decades before the grandchildren were even born! You want to explain that one?



Have to agree with ya on this one. Poorly thought out article and biased. Greeks are in the situation they are in because of Greeks. I would agree that various bankers took advantage of the situation but that is how profits are made. A fool and his money are soon departed. If Greece would have declared bankruptcy and told the bankers to shove it, they'd still be suffering economically but much further on the path to recovery. Because Greece has refused to declare bankruptcy, it is GREECE that must pay what it owes.


Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:59 | 2375181 i-dog
i-dog's picture


Actions have consequences. Lack of action also has consequences!

Take note, America! Drive all the criminals out of DC (including all the elephants and donkeys) ... before they drive you all into FEMA kamps.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:25 | 2375101 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Of course the grandchildren will foot the bill just like they have continued to do with the Jewish people. The German people benefited from the Marshall Plan funded by the USA. They were not subjected to an austerity package as Germany is now trying, nor did the USA sell Germany billions of dollars of armaments.

Or should the USA be reminded of how much they made by selling arms to the British during world war II rather than defending democracy against the Nazis. Perhaps you need to read the history of the USA about how closely your top corporations collaborated with the Nazis in providing them with everything from systems for recording the Jews right to engines for their mikitary vehcles.

Ideally no grandchildren should have to pay for the previous generations, but as the saying goes, the sins of the parents will be visited upon the children.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:43 | 2375142 cirrus
cirrus's picture's sister program is called affirmative action and it's unfortunately alive and well in the USA.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:52 | 2376200 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Only for federal faggot jobs.

No competent boss hires blacks because they are black.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:56 | 2375179 from a greek island
from a greek island's picture

If the children and grandchildren of the Greeks are responsible for the debts of governments their parents voted for, then the children and grandchildren of the Germans are responsible for the loan their government took from the bank of Greece during the occupation. That loan brought such hyperinflation that 300.000 Greeks perished from starvation. We are NOT talking about war reparations here but a LOAN, taken at gunpoint of cource, but still signed and serviced till Germany was split. Then, the government of West Germany stopped repaying with the argument that they should not repay the debt of Eastern Germany till reunification. Eastern Germany never payed anything. Well... they got reunified, didn't they? They made hanbags out of human skin and got a Marshall plan to rebuild. Now they treat us Greeks as the scum of the earth because our goverments got involved in their vendor financed economic model. 

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:21 | 2375252 noses
noses's picture

Actually they are treating Greeks like they do because the elected Greek leaders have been lying for decades, employed specialists to falsify docuements and have generally spent money they never were entitled to on the backs of the rest of Europe. If they had used the resources to improve their situation those who paid it all would just shrug and consider it a good investment but as it was completely wasted they will sooner or later cut the supply. Deal with it.


Greeks have been known to be treacherous bastards since Homer described ???????? (who would call someone like him a hero or even an hones man?) and sometimes there are repercussions.Most recent example? Blocking aid for an entire nation over something that smells like the first serious case of patent trolling over the name "Macedonia" (which was the moment I decided for myself that should Greece ever need help in any way I would take care of them being treated the same way – guess my wishes sometimes come true).


EDIT: Something turned the Greek characters denoting "Odysseus/Ulysses" into question marks. Sorry.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:09 | 2375203 noses
noses's picture

"Since when are grandchildren responsible for the actions of their grandparents?"


Hm. I'm certain that the "Zentralrat der Juden" will be able to give you some precise reasons for that kind of opinion.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:34 | 2375463 Maxter
Maxter's picture


"Since when are grandchildren responsible for the actions of their grandparents?"

I don't know but Americans are still seen as the liberator of Europe even though most american who fough there are dead by now.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 11:24 | 2376753 noses
noses's picture

Don't worry. Most people see them as oppressors these days. Which will become a more lasting impression soon.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:48 | 2375477 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


it seems to be an international scam now

why work when you can claim grievence and milk a foreign teat

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:51 | 2375020 resurger
resurger's picture

Privatization NOW!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:51 | 2375022 pcrs
pcrs's picture

Is it soo hard to blaim your own politicians, who sold you out as tax slaves to foreign lenders? Why blame the foreign lenders? They just reacted to an offer made by a greek politician gaining personal wealth and prestige with greek tax serfs as collateral.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:25 | 2375108 CH1
CH1's picture

The State is god and has been god for all their lives... they would have to invent Germany if it didn't exist.

The State may NOT be culpable!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:33 | 2375124 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If what you say is true for Greece then it is doubly true for the USA where in addition to being sold to the bankers, you have them being bailed out, adorned with bonuses and nowhere near being jailed.

The world would be well on its way to recovery if governments that are controlled by banks, had not bailed banks out.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:23 | 2375034 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Greeks don't really need a good 70 yr. old reason to deadbeat the Germans. Makes for good theater, tho




Wed, 04/25/2012 - 17:59 | 2375038 Pooper Popper
Pooper Popper's picture

Another glass of denial please...Oh RED PLASTIC CUP....lets have a party

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:00 | 2375042 Grimbert
Grimbert's picture

Greece used to be cheap for us Brits, but nowhere in Euroland is cheap now except Germany, which always used to be expensive. Figure that one out.

I'd love to go as I've never been, but I'm waiting for the Drachma to come back. The riots don't happen every night - just keep away from them.


Thu, 04/26/2012 - 03:55 | 2375823 Reptil
Reptil's picture

And that's the funny bit. As economies grind to a halt, inflation rears it's ugly head. And that's a little different from the "lost decade". And more destructive.

I'm certain in Brussels the genius planners haven't got a clue, how to proceed.

Don't worry, riots coming to the UK again, soon.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:04 | 2375054 walküre
walküre's picture

Germans don't travel to Greece anymore. Who would have thought? After all the nice receptions and the fancy words the Greeks used in the past few months to describe their tourists from Germany?

We're pretty thick headed and even thicker skinned people, but why would I spend my vacation Dollars or Euros in a place that hates me and my family? Goes for any place.

Don't think the Dutch, Scandinavians or any other Caucasian tourists that could be mistaken as German tourists will continue to flock to the beaches of Crete, Rhodes or Santorin.

They need to reinvent themselves. Not sure how, though. They might end up being another Albania.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:09 | 2375062 Olympia
Olympia's picture

History shall repeat itself in a far greater scale and therefore the benefit for the leading roles shall be much greater. If ancient Greeks won the battle against the barbarity of the East in favour of Europe, then modern Greeks are those who are meant to win the battle against the barbarity of both Eastern and Western world in favour of the human kind. The world has become a little “village” and in this “village” everyone knows what the character of the others is.

The German traitors of Europe along with the Phoenicians from Asia may have forced Europe to get down from the "back” of the Greek “bull”, but it remains to be seen how they shall pull it through with the “bull”. Authored by PANAGIOTIS TRAIANOU

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:38 | 2375098 schatzi
schatzi's picture

Why do the aggrieved Greek people seek to blame the Germans? The crooks and thieves that have impoverished you are the same ones you voted into parliament. Why don't you organise a respectable lynch mob, get those pitchforks and ropes and start dealing with your crooks in a way they have deserved long ago. Do you think the German worker is to blame? He's being fucked over for 12 straight years now. His real wages haven't budged one bit, while those in Europe have risen between 10-30% during that time and all the while your politicians have been cramming European taxpayer money into Swiss bank accounts.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 03:05 | 2375801 from a greek island
from a greek island's picture

The description of this crisis in terms of a moral story is an invention of the German political and economic classes. They fucked the German worker by convincing him to accept frosen payment for years, but that had as a result that German unemployment was exported to Spain and the Spanish worker got fucked by both the German industrialist and the German worker by having to face an unemployment rate of 20%. Then the German industrialist hoarded money that did not invest but prefered to loan to the rest of Europe, so that they buy his products like in Ireland or get him to build infrastructure like in Greece. That did not bother anyone at the time since it was done in small steps and all wanted to help Germany reunify but now the situation is unsustainable. The European Central Bank also helped the German economy and hurted others by keeping interest rates lower than most countries needed but at the number that suited Germany. As a result, the Irish had interest rates lower than their inflation and overborrowed. So did the Spanish and the Portuguese. This is a crisis caused by the wrong structure of the euro and not by lax morality of the south. But then, if one accepts that, he would have to realise, like Greeks do, that the responsibility is shared. This is not what the south hears from Germay. Germans do not accept that the rules of the game were written by them for their interest but instead pretend this is a moral story and collectively discribe the southerners as lazy, although we all work much more than they do, according to OECE data. Then they react when Greeks or Italians get ungry. Well, Greece, the little guy, could be so easily bullied by the big guy in the block but now the situation changed. Gig guys like Italy and Spain feel the pain and Germans will need to decide what they want. Union, fair games, undervalued currency and access to markets and act as in a union or their own way, look at their own interest only but less acces to the markets of the south and a DM 40% higher than the euro. They cannot have it all any more.



Thu, 04/26/2012 - 07:54 | 2376027 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Thanks for pointing out the other side of the story.

The problem is the ECB and the euro itself. Central banks destroy economies. And, they distract us by pitting one region against another, as a natural byproduct of the gigantic distortions they create.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:42 | 2375254 walküre
walküre's picture

Any poll in Germany confirmed that Germans by and large were opposing any bailouts of Greece. Not because we don't like Greeks but because we like ourselves more. Very normal human instinct.

Don't blame me. I have no beef with you. But I won't spend a week on your country's beaches either.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 20:03 | 2375281 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Completely agree. Was gonna head to Greece w/ the lady friend this august...looks like we're doing Dubrovnik instead. Couldn't stand being stuck in the country due to riots or strikes etc.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:25 | 2375773 from a greek island
from a greek island's picture

That goes right to the point. Germans want to enjoy the privilleges of being in a union but not the responsibilities. This is not Germany versus Greece but an unsustainable vendor financed and impoverish your neighbour economic model against the rest of Europe. Same like China is to the US. Chinese are right to insist that they are rigth to like themselves more but they are not in a union with the United States. Greece was just the first domino to fall and the boxing bag for everybody elses frustrations. Now that Italy and Spain come to the place of Greece, the whole narration will change. What is even more revealing is how the Dutch have discovered that the "medicine" imposed on Greece is distructive just as soon as they realised they might have to try it themselves.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:05 | 2375055 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

Let's be perfectly clear.

It is not the common people of ANY country that are the problem.

It is the Central Bankers and their Puppet Politicians that are running the Global Scam that created this catastrophe.

Stay focused, people!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:23 | 2375099 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Except for here in the US where we keep electing the same corrupt politicians. We have the government we deserve I suppose. Just look at our general population that cares more about reality TV then the deficit. Stay focused. I think the problem is that the astute ones staying focused are the minority. With such a huge portion of the population subsidized in one way or another and only about half of the population actually paying taxes, well let's just say this story has been played out before in history and the results weren't pretty.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:32 | 2375117 CH1
CH1's picture

It is not the common people of ANY country that are the problem.


The common people always obey lying scum politicians and hold them to be a higher species.

The system would fall apart in a month if the common folks stopped obeying uniforms and offices.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:52 | 2375164 Clashfan
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:11 | 2375067 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Just got a woody to go rent The Guns Of Navarone.

Real life....real answers!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:16 | 2375076 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Grenzkontrolle... Schlampez

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:21 | 2375094 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

"If you ask me, US owes Native Americans trillions for all the murders and war crimes."

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:24 | 2375104 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:40 | 2375139 Aquiloaster
Aquiloaster's picture

Yeah. Visit a reservation and tell me that the deeds of a couple hundred years ago aren't still influencing the present. At the same time, what is to be done? To ammend everything would be to evacuate a continent, and even then ways of life have been forgotten, the environment polluted, and staple foods (e.g. bison) driven close to extinction. Let's call a duck a duck--it is impossible for full reparation to be made so lets move on. Moving on requires that we still remember accurately what happened. But is also does not involve paying endless monetary reparations (this doesn't make sense anyway. What was lost was invaluable monetarily, so why would compensation do shit to even the scales. The reparation plug is something used by minority groups to gain leverage politically) and welfare state coercions that take away any remaining dignity.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:41 | 2375397 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

I will gladly pay you in lead if you think that that kinda shit is goinna fly around here. How fucking dare you! You are obviously a lost soul thinking that your bullshit is going to be pandered to here. I would think that Yahoo would be your better venue for expressing your non-sensical views. NFOAD!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 22:01 | 2375423 Aquiloaster
Aquiloaster's picture

What is your point? That you are some cyber-vigilante who is going to kill me for some how violating your version of what a ZH chat room stands for? The fucking point of this site is that people's opinions sink or swim based on argumentation. If you want my shit not to fly then come up with a counter-argument. Talk about non-sensical. Did you even read my post to the end? How is saying that what is done is done and that welfare exacerbates the problem inconsistent with the ethos of self-sufficiency and a "let the chips fall where they may" attitude of ZH/fight club? Moron.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 01:54 | 2375736 Peter K
Peter K's picture

"If you ask me, Native Americans owe the US trillions for all the murders and war crimes."

Now that's much better :)

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:48 | 2375153 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

They don't like the "German pastiche"?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:50 | 2375160 schatzi
schatzi's picture

The posts that can be read here are quite the eye-opener. It amazes me how successfully the ruling elites have managed to use nationalism to deflect the anger of those less fortunate onto other nations, instead of focusing on the real criminals to be found in every government, no matter the nation. I fear they will always succeed as we are too much sheeple to realize how badly we are being fucked over by those in power. Too little revolution too much iPhone.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:11 | 2375211 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Amen brother. Just like they use capitalism v socialism and every other -ism to get people feuding with one another.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 14:56 | 2377563 Bag Of Meat
Bag Of Meat's picture

I though this blog wasn't like this, but it looks like one of the tylers went wrong on this one..

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 18:51 | 2375162 BTHB
BTHB's picture

If Germany had run Greece since WW II, it would in all likelihood be far better run than it is today. Personally, if I were German, I'd insist on a few islands as a quid pro quo for any additional assistance, and perhaps an "island for debt" swap with sovereignty transferred to Germany.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:10 | 2375206 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I defend your right to say anything you wish, but I question your poorly thought out contribution.

Perhaps the USA and so many other nations would also have been better run if the Germans were in control.

But then again, which Germans? The ones who today are productive, hardworking and civilized or the ones who marched to the tunes of Nazism.

Please, let's be a little bit more thoughtful.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:14 | 2375213 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

so you are saying the folks backing the Nazi were not the same middle class that is hardworking, civilized and productive??  I guess Nazi are all zombie vampires right?  You are a fool of history

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:10 | 2375208 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the only way Germany will stop being blamed and expected to keep paying for WWII is for WWIII to come and someone else kill a pile of jews

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:22 | 2375222 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

How many clever children like you did your mother have?

Using your logic, we could say, "the Japanese will not be blamed for bombing Pearl harbour if next time round Pearl Harbour is bombed by the Chinese."'

What is the matter with everyone today.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:26 | 2375229 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the point was how far back do you want to go? When was the last time you gave a dollar to a Native American?  What side of the Crusades were you on?  Are you a slave to group think? 

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:42 | 2375247 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

There is no doubt that at some point in time sunset clauses and monetary limits to damages must prevail. However, WWII is not that long gone, and a great many survivors of the Nazi atrocities are still alive. My own mother lost a father under horrifying conditions and was left orphaned along with three other siblings. They never asked for compensation but Germany never provided Greece and other European nations with any Marshall Plan either like the USA did for Germany who was the perpetrator.

Germany is no ideologue. She could have saved Greece from her own shortcomings by:

(a) Not admitting her to the Euro in accordance with the advice that was given at the time.

(b) Guaranteeing her territorial sovereignty against a war mongering Turkey, rather than sell her billions of dollars of armaments.

(c) Having greater oversight of where and how Euro subsidies were being spent rather than handing them out willy nilly to corrupt and incompetent politicians.

(d) Putting a stop to the unsecured lending that was going on to Greek governments without one iota of due diligence.

These are the additional sins that Germany will pay for...and quite rightly the Greeks will also pay for this with 2 pounds of flesh as well.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:33 | 2375388 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

I don't believe in this "cultural sin" crap that you are spreading. White enslaving blacks, Whites killing jews, conquering the indians, ad nauseam, BLAH BLAH BLAH... What a load of crap!!! If you ain't doing it, then someone is going to be doing it to you. I am a firm believer of the old Christian ethic of: Tis better to Give, then to recieve! Or would you rather have a bunch of Chinese running a train on your ass???!!! Just saying!

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:30 | 2375381 toady
toady's picture

There will be no need to kill piles of jews, or any other ethnicity. It may happen, but it's not necessary.

All that is needed is a loser.

The Germans have been good sports, losing the last two big ones, but its time for a new villain.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:14 | 2375214 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

If you ask me, Germany owes Greece billions for all the murders and war crimes. Germany should pay Greece what it owes.

What a load of horseshit. Everybody's a fucking victim. Sounds like a good bitch-slapping is in order.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:26 | 2375230 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Everyone that reads your comment is a victim, so to that extent I agree with your comment. In all other respects your comment is bullshit.

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:31 | 2375237 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Enlighten me (us).

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 19:40 | 2375251 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

If everyone is a victim then so is Blankfein, Dimon and Corzine for having lent money they cannot get back. Do you agree they are victims as well?

Wed, 04/25/2012 - 21:27 | 2375377 WAMO556
WAMO556's picture

All right, you asked for it. The FAIR HOUSING ACT (  , which pretty much laid the ground work for the housing crash just a few years ago, the reasoning??? Why EVERYBODY should be able to have a home, even if YOU can't afford one. Which means that the economic problem was caused by POLITICS. Which means that the people who are responsible are the US Citizens that allowed this shit to happen. There are more political shenanigans then I can put on this comment, nor am I willing to spend more time adding to the list. But I am going to take you to task in regards to victimization by the political elites (read BARNIE FRANK et al) as there is plenty of blame to go around. But be advised, those who are planning and organizing the pitchforks will be using said pitchforks against the bankers and politicians who thrived in this game. Be sure of a cultural revolution so to speak.

There used to be a guy who said to me - don't hate the player, hate the game!

My response: Hate the player that LIKES playing the game!

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 02:01 | 2375742 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The Fair Housing Act is only part of it and you know it. You forget the slimy brokers and real estate agents who were selling dreams not just to the under class but to those further up he food chain with fake documentation and bullshit assurances. THAT wasn't part of the fair housing act. If that act is truly the source of the whole problem then why doesn't the banking industry start a class action against the government?

Or is the fair housing act also to blame for student loans, personal loans, credit cards gone crazy, two dead end wars and sky high unemployment?

So what do you say now and what do you say about every other housing bust in the world that did not involve a Fair Hosuing Act?

Once again, in fairness to your point I acknowledge that the act DID play a part but it was more so a case of moronic borrower meets greedy lender who is empowered by Fed sponsored ZIRP policy to make and then sell the loans to other stupid institutional investors.

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 03:25 | 2375812 Peter K
Peter K's picture

Hey, don't blame the players, blame the game :)

Thu, 04/26/2012 - 08:03 | 2376048 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Games don't exist in a vacuum, they require players.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!