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Things That Make You Go Hmmm - Such As Europe's "Comprehensive Solution"
Five months ago, Zero Hedge first boiled down the math of the European bailout as follows: "The Fatal Flaw In Europe's Second "Bazooka" Bailout: 82 Million Soon To Be Very Angry Germans, Or How Euro Bailout #2 Could Cost Up To 56% Of German GDP." And while everyone was assuming Germany would be delighted to go down for the proverbial insolvency "ride" one more time, we strongly urged not to make that assumption, as we posited the fundamental equation running through the mind of every German: is the opportunity cost of keeping the euro high enough to threaten either a complete German economic meltdown (fiscal support), or hyperinflation (massive ECB intervention), and that the outcome would not be the one the Eurocrats wanted. While at the time our speculation was seen as preposterous, it has since become mainstream (just look at the Eurostoxx). The latest observation on just this comes from Grant Williams' latest "Things that make you go hmmm" where he says: "France and Germany need to be prepared to foot the bills that are coming due and, by ‘France and Germany’, I mean Germany because, with a budget deficit of 7.1%, and debts of 83% of GDP, France WILL be downgraded shortly and will be in no position to chip in to the EFSF as their own ship begins to take on a serious amount of water in the shape of rising borrowing costs. That leaves the intransigent Germans. With a budget deficit of 4.3%, a record of having exceeded the mandated deficit limit in seven of the past eleven years a debt-to-GDP level of 85% and climbing, not to mention an economy that is on the verge of a recession (I told you not to MENTION that), Germany may soon have to go and sit somewhere quiet in order to reflect on what to do next." And so on.
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Why The European Debt Crisis Might Actually Be Over...
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-european-debt-crisis-might-be-over-2011-12#ixzz1gtuGfQ5U
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, lol
The world's problems will not solve themselves, and we have reached a stage in the global awakening when pessimism is no longer an excuse. It's time for a fundamental advancement in global governance for the good of humanity. Say no to poverty. Say no to climate change. Say no to racism. Say yes to global compassion. One world, one people, one government. Join the progrEssivE rEvolution.
What the fuck does that shit mean? Another excuse for printing money and sitting on your ass collecting a check from a white man who works?
Where are these fucking trolls coming from? Obama re-election $$$$$?
tipping point situations like today make extreme strategies an exciting "all in" play; as they can be no plan Bs, at this late hour.
The Keynesians say we are in total austerity so throw open the hatches and fire an investment broadside world wide to kick start new development. Don't look at debt, just invest, invest, invest in infrastructure, new technology, creating jobs. This is like the war economy play as in 1941. Only trouble, debt will be a bitch as will be energy and RM crunch.
The Austerians like RP and ZH say, bring down the ponzi first, wash out the debt, then rebuild sane economic foundation on nation state basis, not world construct. Only trouble, we'll all be dead before re-construct occurs. So say the Keynesians.
You take your pick...
Then let me choose to die, but not yet Keynesians, not yet.
"pump and dump" has already been chosen for you. You weren't expecting to still own your house when this was done were you?
Oh ya banker twink, oh ya.
:-)) @ fp
A complete and total economic collapse of 1/3rd of the world economy, Europe, is currently underway.
The Eurozone is finished. It won't be long till the economic fallout engulfs the entire planet Including the USA that is already bankrupt.
If you don't read Zero Hedge you probably didn't know this bit of current events trivia that's concerning more and more people. Current economic events is a big reason why people are flocking to the Ron Paul camp.
The planet is fucking economic toast irregardless if our next president is Ron Paul or not.
I'd just like Dr Ron Paul to be there to pick up the pieces.
The total economic collapse is currently underway. Have you not been reading Zero Hedge?
Don't worry, the physical bank buildings will survive the bankruptcy and be recycled into new startups and new owners hands.
P.S.
The complete and total worldwide economic collapse doesn't give a shit who the president is. It's happening anyway.
Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
I will openly and freely admit I have been caught off gaurd on the wrong day..
so I will not call them stupid, becuase then I would have to admit I was stupid as well!
but it is funny to watch it happen!
God Bless You Bonus!! you are worth a Million oz's of Gold!
As a card carrying member of the wordsmith class I must say this is one of the finest compliments I have ever heard! Thanks and keep
posting JW!
God Bless You! For your Service!
God Bless You!! For Being a Fellow Brother of Fight Club!!
God Bless You!!! For Not Being A Nazi (United States Anti-Constitutional Kind)!!!
AND!
Merry Christmas to You and Yours! May ALL! of Your Dreams Come True! (I know I would be happier if they did)
But lets not forget that this is fight club and scuffles are what make this place fun! Please???
Regressive evolution<------------fixed it for ya
so what your advocating is a global dictatorship? global "governance impoverishes everyone Im getting really sick of your trolling bitch FUCK YOU
+1 MDB writes the best satiric trolls on ZH. Funny shit.
Thank you, but I'd rather keep the clusterfk of many nations and economies. Why make it easy for the global dictator wanabee's?
Progressive Revolution.
That's when revolution progresses to world war and ends in nuclear war. This time it starts with nuclear war and the few remaining radiated drive fuel tankers and bio virus vats to the bankster, military and government tunnels and empty them. The fuse is lit before the last standing dies of radiation poisoning combined with plague.
Everyone dies because people did not have enough courage to enforce laws to protect them from their human nature. Fraud at the highest levels becomes dangerous proportionate to the population.
People know the fraud at the top needs to be removed but no one has the courage to do it. Until that happens let's all party before nothingness like the Business Insider.
Help the world survive and stick a globalist peace prize winning rifle up your butt. Pull the trigger. you Satanic moron.
MDB If you have not noticed Democracy does not work and large Government does not work , WW1 was about spreading Democracy , the Romans spred Democracy , MDB I suggest you try using your own brain , you know individual thought, and try not to let the Government think for you ,I know that is hard in your position . On the other hand I am sure the Government thinks you are a perfect slave for the system , keep taking the blue pill .
Actually, we should be grateful. I have not seen an expression this concise of a common insanity in a very long time. I do think his development could stand the enforcement of a writ of habeus corpus, though.
The Western meme has always been "more good = better". Laws are good, so more laws MUST be better - right? Government is good, so more government MUST be better - right? And if we have a bad government, a bigger one will fix that - right?
No, but try telling the people who believe this the idea is wrong. The idea that a government that is larger, more remote from the people and their reality, and (more to the point) exempt from accountability for their actions (e.g. the EU) can be of benefit to the general populace can be (and for some has been) disproved by a simple examination of history. Somehow, they always think "this time is different". It never is.
The poster who wanted to keep the "clusterfuck of individual nations" had it right. The less power is centralized, the safer people are. I can already hear the strawman argument that, according to that statement, anarchy is ultimate safety, to which I say, the opposite extreme leads to the same results. Still, truly efficient slaughter requires organization only a government can bring to the situation. Just look at Hitler, or Stalin, or Mao, or...
"The poster who wanted to keep the "clusterfuck of individual nations" had it right. The less power is centralized, the safer people are" I would agree with that statement but I have consider to external dangers which are inherent to small nations or organizations, now you'll have your pick which is better for you.
A deterrent is the only thing that will provide a semblance of peace and orderliness in our respective parts of the world now, with the current system of 'governments'. The edges of many countries are fraying, once more. This alone is profoundly destabilising but we all know far worse is to follow for the system. We either respond with genuine good-will towards each other (not just mouthing hollow arrogant unbelievable twisted shit like Hillary and Barry do) and encourage a live-and-let-live attitude to grow and persist between us, or else, the boiling greed in the sick hearts of elitists, for what the 'other' has, will plunge us into a true dark-age.
A video the whole developed world should see:
http://www.tpuc.org/content/story-your-enslavement
It's up to us because the Govts WILL start a war between us if we allow them to.
.
I am pro good things, and anti bad things.
MillionDollarBonus_
You been hitting the Peyote again Ralph?.
Global Governance IS coming, when we do not know.
As a Believer I say Hallelujah!.............I will be gone soon there after.
Those Left behind, my soul anguishes over............
But The carnal side of me say's Hug an Oscar Mayer.
Because your advocating GLOBAL TYRANNY,your advocating Satans plan come sooner.Trust GOD you do not want to be around when that SHTF.
Holy crap! MillionDollarBonus IS Obama!!!!
MDB as usual tongue in cheek bullshit. Hilarious.
So, they've scraped up a loan to pay this month's credit card bill, but they've done nothing to cut back on spending, so they'll have to borrow even more for next month's credit card bill. That sounds like a brilliant solution only the elite bankers and politicians could have come up with.
BI is a waste of (cyber) space. For every 1 good article I find there, you have to weed through 50 crap articles.
This article is mind boggling "cover all options, spin a new twist" play; selling BI to throbbing newbies who can't tell strawberry jam from orange marmalade.
Something else that makes me go hmmm...when do the french admit they didnt invent French fries.
when the world admits they made pommes frites...fixed that!
In fact another version of this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachis_Parmentier
By the man who planted the first potatoes in France : Monsieur Parmentier.
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Augustin_Parmentier
So the USA is running a deficit of 10.9% of GDP and 100% Debt/GDP and we are the "safe haven" from the Euro trash?
Yes, because our central bank is a special "fairy dust and dragons" central bank and will print all the 1's and 0's both America and the world need.
Yeah well thats ONLY if you beleive the GDP numbers. I think our GDP is much lower. When they are making figures like 1.2 trillion is added to the GDP because "its the rent homeowners didnt have to pay themselves that year" kind of BS I lose faith in the numbers. I think our ratio is closer to 120%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Z1haZ-5jc
On Wednesday in Brussels, Eurozone leaders met with investors to discuss what could be done to fix the economic problems in Greece. The meeting resulted in a 100 billion Euro bail out scheduled for early next year and a 50 percent haircut on Greek bonds. Our very own Max Keiser sounds off on the outcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqeceKUQug8
June 24, 2011 ~ On The Edge with Max Keiser & Gerald Celente from TrendsReaserch who discuss the International Monetary Fund's Mafia / Financial Rape tactics.
The "International Mafia Federation" go to desperate countries and lend them money and as for repayment they tell the host country to tax their people. Later they demand more money so they go after public properties and services (Bridges, Highways, Water Supply ...) of that country.
FAIR USE NOTICE: These pages/video may contain copyrighted (© ) material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. Such material is made available to advance understanding of ecological, POLITICAL, HUMAN RIGHTS, economic, DEMOCRACY, scientific, MORAL, ETHICAL, and SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES, etc. It is believed that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior general interest in receiving similar information for research and educational
and the.. ongoing problem..
will always be..
if not a haircut now.. then later when more money is on the table.. a larger loss later? because Greece and / or add another Countries name here ________________. Now, this time.. or later, next time.. Greece or other can say.. screw it we will default!
so, lose money now.. or lose money later..
but all this negative talk should slow growth.. it has been on full blast for how many years now?
24 hours a day, 7 days a week.. Bad News! Terrible News!
the only way American Companies can suck at the Government Tax Tittty and get away with it.. is over FEAR!!! Terrorists! BOO! and then the money can flow.. or War..
But NO GROWTH! ANY WHERE! http://csis.org/publication/geopolitics-energy
There is NOT ENOUGH CHEAP ENERGY TO GO AROUND! http://csis.org/files/attachments/110919_IEO2011.pdf
THERE ARE TRILLIONS MORE IN CASH SATURATING THE SYSTEM!
THIS NEVER WAS A PRINTED PIECE OF PAPER PROBLEM!
Cheap Energy is come and GONE! http://csis.org/event/eias-international-energy-outlook-2011
Wake UP!! http://csis.org/files/publication/100312_Ebel_IranNuclear_web.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYuLjGQQ-jg
Jeff Rubin
The Global Model for Trade is BROKEN!
Energy is NOT! so cheap as to allow for Wage Arbitrage to be a catalyst to drive trade! instead of resorting to war! (protectionism is here) http://www.alt-market.com/msm/421-china-raises-tariffs-on-us-autos-by-21
You can keep ignoring the truth! and trading the public sentiment! LOL algo's pretending to be the public!
but at some point the truth is going to come crashing down all around you.
sorry..
you now can get back to thinking and talking about things that dont matter but make you feel better!
European big cap equities will be the No. 1 performing group in 2012.
The European crisis has dragged on too long now, only a matter of time before the doomsayers and the bears get exhausted waiting for the collapse that never happens.
IEV is currently paying a dividend yield of over 5.5%.
The Euro is also oversold, so a rally in the Euro plus being invested in IEV will give investors a "double shot" of fantastic gains.
do you hate everyone so much that you would wish upon them all failure?
just becuase playing within the rules broke you.. doesnt mean you should promote the lie to others.
i agree "the euro is not going to be replaced by a D Mark." that means we already have a defacto "rich/poor Europe" dichotomy which could be very good for uber large industrial conglomerates. i'm still trying to figure out how the financials in Europe win under any scenario however...i'll get back to you on that one...if the market doesn't beat me to it of course.
Does anyone actually care about the efsf anymore? I thought that thing more or less died off a few months ago. Last time I heard they couldn't raise money and therefore can bail out countries.
My suggestion for a new Europeon 'post anthem'. ( actually I'm just obsessed with the song and this is the best vid I've found).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lazyDlfaptM
The only thing to love about the Eurofarce is that it might help Americans step away from the cliff. Oh, that and if I play it right I might make a wheelbarrow full of banknotes.
I've gone from Humming to Screaming.
Well as stated, n comparison to the rest of the world the US looks "safe". There are people out their that are scared of buying anything that doesn't pary interest and can't bring themselves to put more than 10% of their managed assets into a precious metal. They are quivering like a lap dog passing a peach pit. In some cases they have no safe way to take physical posession of anything like gold and they don't trust an ETF or any other warehousing set up. I think some are shifting funds to the US and are preparing to follow it overhere. Go figure?
The playbook may be a program or recipe of slow simmering inflation plus hammered-in Austerity.
"We need to come together as a Nation . . . roll up our sleeves . . . these are tough times but tough times don't last . . . "
Media cesspools like MSN and Yahoo! are standing by.
Sell Hard Times to the masses . . . with a bite of cannabis chocolate to help it go down.
Already underway. Tenderize the people.
Outright deflation/cold turkey/sobriety? No way.
Thus inflation-favorable assets will appreciate; but not quickly. But quick enough - see Au chart 2000-2011.
All imvho.
Germany may soon have to go and sit somewhere quiet in order to reflect on what to do next."
They (the scum in power from every party) already know what they gonna do, and that is rape rape rape rape of the german taxpayers.
Rape of the european tax payer you mean. Greek,German,Italian DOES IT MATTER?!
Deutschmarks are looking more and more likely.
I will be really interested when they call it the "final solution".
What a fucking joke.
Like Marc Faber said, all they are interested in doing is having a meeting once a week at a 5 star hotel to discuss the latest "crisis"and not do anything except perpetuate their lavish lifestyle at other peoples expense.
The cost of all those meetings will exceed the GDP of some of the countries in trouble.
they're only interested in bailing out their own respective banks and that's what the ECB is for. That never had a plan for "rescuing Greece"...or anyone else for that matter. And of course "the US is exiting Iraq." "Go long Imam's" seems undeniable to me.
Joebloinvestor
The cost of all those meetings will exceed the GDP of some of the countries in trouble.
Hell Joe, just 12 mos of Barrrrrrrrrrracks,(scuse me, sompin in my craw) and Mocellles vacations are exceeeding the GDP of 89% of most of the worlds GDP.
While our Treasury rates are low,, the YC slope isn;'t signaling reecession or even the case for more QE. That is, if you believe the yield curve. QE3? The Message From The Yield Curve is No – “But these aren’t normal times, Cato”http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com/2011/12/18/qe3-the-message-from-the-yield-curve-is-no-but-these-arent-normal-times-cato/
I don't see how the ECB can print when they would barely have the authority even if Germany caves. The FED might be able to bail out the EU sovereigns using the IMF at this point. But if the ECB goes rogue without authority they would be creating another mess and be targeted by angry European mobs with picthforks.
The welfare state has been seen more kindly when a people are bailing out their indolent next door neighbor, but the notion of wealth redistrubution to indolent and profligate nation states has suddenly awakened people to the immorality of welfare state redistributions in general. People suddenly seem to be aware that the welfare state is really a means to benefit the banks who make money financing the deficit spending, stealing the people's democracy and sovereignty in the process.
...I don't see how the ECB can print when they would barely have the authority even if Germany caves...
ECB can print ad infinitum; as independent bank they are free to print as long as it doesn't create inflation. They can do what the FED does. But the "psychological" onus on them is higher because they do no benefit from 'exorbitant privilege'. So ECB can print to infinity in theory. They don't need anybody's go-ahead.
I think that's what the unelected ECB technocrats say they can do, and are hellbent on doing, but that's not what they are allowed to do under the current arrangement, especially without any pretext of politican popular support from the major sovereign players. The rubicon of losing sovereignty is a key sore spot. That has been a big hang up and why they're using all manner of backdoor methods to improvise. The EURO is not really a fiscal union, it's a union for a common currency.
An oppponent to the annointing of the ECB becoming a bailout printer, Juergen Stark (quitting the ECB in Sept. 2011 for "personal reasons") said, "It is the fundamental arrangement of this currency union that it does not allow the monetary funding of sovereign debt by the ECB. Without these rules, there would be no economic and currency union."
For now they have to wait for a painful deflationary crises to precipitate enough capitulation in the EU to start the presses full on. That's what we're really waiting for. Meantime, it makes more sense (from the miscreant PTB prespective) for the FED to bail out the EU. This would be a two-fer -- strenghtening the EURO and weakening the USD at the same time to keep the dollar from rocketing against a collapsing EURO. The race is to the bottom, not to the top, and the EURO crises is messing up Timnanke's plans big time.
all the politicos have passed around the hot pomme de terrible for a year, while doing the clown-car thingy in the most expensive suites of the finest europeon hotels, so at least we know they all have bed-bugs, BiCheZ!
listen: they each & all avoided being the person who killed the EU
mission accompliced! L0L!!!
if france gets downgraded, they'll be able to blame it on the ratings agencies being such assholes!
a french downgrade blows the house0crads offa la table, imo
TPTB will no longer achieve the prismatic bending of the rays of perception which is allowing us to view this as a unicorns-in-top-hats-&-chanel fest
the masters of the fiat universe know that their game has ways to keep going, but they may have transferred too much wealth, too fast, while destroying much of their own in the process
still, the wheat ears, the corn cobs, the cattle low, and the fish fry
after all's said & done, there isn't much left to transfer at this point on a yearly basis
so, we can't look f'ward to super-duper growth, super, or even -uper, or maybe not enuf growth at all to keep everybody happy, healthy, well-fed, and rich
so: any ideas?
all of this would end if the bernank would agree to take on all the euro debt at face value in exchange for 10 year usa debt at 2% effectively diversifying petrodollars with eurotrash dollars.
Mr Hmmmm.... is not correct on facts
France budget deficit is 5.7% on national income (more than 20% of Mr Hmmmms "guess"..) and the OECD thinks France will run an underlying deficit of only 0.6% of national income in 2013.
How many men to change a light bulb? - Derek Clark
Just like in the United States.. What, you want to start a business? Ok, but these are your preferred vendors you can only use.
If your CFL bulb goes out, you need to contact us for proper changing and removal fees. Failure to comply will result in violation penalties. Don't even think about throwing that mercury bulb in your dumpster, we have created new employment facets to audit your deposal containers.
The light bulb goes … off
For those of you that can remember, Mercury Filled Thermometers. Yep, we played with mercury in Chemistry class. Due to the harmful physical risks of handling mercury, it was banned.
In 2012, its now OK to buy taxpayer subsidized CFL mercury filled bulbs. Why? Because the taxpayer fronts the technology and the central planners create new jobs to police the new norm.
Closure: How many men does it take to change a light bulb? This is why EU countries are broke!
Just my little rant. :)
Anglais je presume.
Omnibus spending legislation greenlighted by House and Senate negotiators Thursday night blocks Energy Department light bulb efficiency standards that have come under fire from conservatives in recent months.
The legislation, which would avert a government shutdown, prevents funding from being used for the implementation of certain Energy Department light bulb standards. The standards would begin phasing in next year.
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/199851-spending-deal-blocks-light-bulb-efficiency-standards?page=2
Don't bore me with your talk of new technology. Ne vous comprendre l'anglais fucker?
Alisdair Macleod (of the clan Macleod) had a good one on Goldmoney this weekend. Says a Ducth physicist did the math on the current projection of the gold price (w/ graph) and concludes we are headed for a Singularity for the Price of Gold in February 2014.
Singularity of the Price of Gold is when it goes straight up to infinity due to monetary printing. This is based on the likelihood of both Euro printing and Fed printing to commence shortly. Feb 2014 is only 26 months away and that's a lot sooner than I've heard anyone previously say such a thing. We do seem to be accelerating towards the event horizon as reality based pundits, such as Bass and Sinclair, are saying. Bass says 3-5 years to the total collapse, not the 10-year elites' timeframe. This latest bumps it up even a little closer. Whatever the timeframe, it is a moving target coming right at us.
I hope any gold singularity does not make all the above ground OZs disappear into a government black hole via confiscation.
I hope any gold singularity does not make all the above ground OZs disappear into a government black hole via confiscation.
Your HOPE is lost.......................but ,you also can dig black holes.
They must have us on our knees begging for Pottage, or it will not work.So, there is the reason for all private citizens must be paupers.
As long as there are well to do, and wealthy people left, their plan utterly fails it's intended puropse.
Trading conditions this week should be a bit difficult due to low liquidity, postions should be watched closely due to pre-holiday market conditions. Here is a Market Newsletter update with several wave potential wave counts for the SPX this week. http://bit.ly/si4o8Y
"Belgium slashes Dexia guarantee" as a result of Moody's downgrade.
http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/111218_dexia