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Things That Make You Go Hmmm - Such As The Transition From Conspiracy Theory To Conspiracy Fact

Tyler Durden's picture


From Grant Williams, author of Things That Make You Go Hmmm,

Attempts to manipulate free markets invariably end badly - after all, they are, supposedly, by their very nature, free.


Over the past few weeks, the exposure of the Libor-rigging scandal has monopolized the headlines of the financial press and inveigled its way onto the front pages of every major news publication in the world through the sheer size and scale of the story.

Something as big as this just CAN’T be hidden from the public.

Only... it can.

It has been. It no doubt still is to a certain extent. I’m not going to go through all of the events of the past few weeks as you are no doubt familiar with them, but [simply understanding how LIBOR works makes for a simple conclusion].

I’m afraid it’s rather obvious. Given that almost half the reported inputs that help establish the Libor rate are discarded immediately, Barclays simply CANNOT have manipulated the Libor rate alone. Period.

What’s more, to effectively ensure the rate is set at the price required, you’d need to not only establish the highest and lowest 25% of prices, but then ensure the remaining 50% average out to the required rate and, based on the fact that there are 16 banks that submit rates, that would mean about 13 of the 16 involved would need to be complicit.

As a very good friend of mine put it earlier this week; at best this is a cartel, at worst it’s outright fraud on a scale that is completely unprecedented.

So for five years there have been attempts to fix the Libor rate and, take it from me, during that time, many inside the financial industry were familiar with the rumors of such manipulation but it was another huge scandal with such highpowered connected interests that it would no doubt be brushed squarely under the carpet. Forget ‘too big to fail’. This was ‘too deep to prove’.

Libor is so important to so many people in the financial industry that the question of why it was manipulated really ought to be framed differently:

Assuming you COULD manipulate something as important and potentially beneficial as the Libor rate with such ease for years, why wouldn’t you?

The answer to this question would ordinarily be:

"Because it’s illegal and government regulators would throw the book at us"


So, working from the ground up; we have a set of traders looking to produce the best profits they can for personal gain, the major bank they work for and who should be supervising them with a need to disguise the level of its own funding costs and above them all, a government seeking to keep borrowing costs down in the middle of a gigantic financial storm. From such alignments of interest are the greatest of conspiracies born.

In my humble opinion, the Libor scandal (which has a LONG way to go before it has played out and which will claim a LOT more scalps) will mark a fundamental change in the treatment of financial conspiracy theories in the media. The sheer amount of coverage it will undoubtedly receive will signal a shift in attitude towards the exposing of such scandals rather than the blind-eyes that have been regularly turned in recent years.


But perhaps, most-of-all, watching how quickly those in high places begin to throw each other under the bus, it will hasten the end of many other possible government conspiracies as exposing such events becomes an exercise in self-preservation. Prime amongst conspiracy theories that may soon be finally proven to be either valid or the figments of overactive imaginations, are those alleged in the gold and silver markets.

The allegations concerning precious metal price manipulation predate those surrounding Libor by decades but until now day they have remained similarly acknowledged within financial circles and ignored without. That may well be about to change.

Unencumbered by liability, the rising price of gold has always been a barometer of governmental failure to protect the purchasing power of fiat currency and the best indication of the damage that inflation does.


Forget inexorably rising gold prices. Forget the corrections that shake loose hands from the wheel at every turn. In the broader context they carry far less relevance than the intrinsic values that gold provides a consistent yardstick to.


A look at the value of assets measured in ounces of gold remains the most consistent way to get a sense of their real value and the charts below demonstrate all too clearly the true performance of the Dow Jones Industrial Average and average US house prices over the long term when measured in gold ounces.

If the long-stated claims about government-sanctioned, bank-led manipulation of precious metals markets put forward so eloquently by the likes of Ted Butler, Bill Murphy & Chris Powell at GATA as well as Messrs. Sprott, Sinclair, Davies et al are eventually proven to have any validity whatsoever, the fallout from the Libor scandal will prove to be (to use the words of Jamie Dimon) just another “tempest in a tea pot” as the precious metals are the very underpinnings of the entire global financial system. Conspiracy or no, it would be a blessed relief to get closure no matter what the truth turns out to be.


As for the full note by Grant Williams, which has much more in it, it can be found below (pdf):

Hmmm Jul 08 2012


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Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:13 | 2597600 veyron
veyron's picture

Bankers messed with nearly every other rate and economic indicator.  Why not LIBOR?


The outrage was expected; The surprise is genuinely surprising.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:23 | 2597615 zaphod
zaphod's picture

That Dow/Gold chart clearly says now is the time to buy stocks and sell Gold. Of course that trendline is wrong because it was manipulated during the past 100 years by the Fed. If the FED is able to put humpty dumpty together again (for awhile), then maybe it is time to buy stocks, my head hurts.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:37 | 2597659 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Forget gold & silver. I'd like to know what really happened on 9-11!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:27 | 2597770 Killtruck
Killtruck's picture

Deep down, you already do.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:08 | 2597922 Western
Western's picture

Andy Griffith vs the Patriot Act;

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:52 | 2597820 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

TM, it's still the most important question one can ask.

Answer: inside job.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:23 | 2597880 Nage42
Nage42's picture

The only question you ever need to ask is:  "Who benefited most from it?"

For only [sorry, but in the scheme of things... this is a small number] 3000 deaths, it represents the bigest group-think change for power-grab and personal freedoms give-up for the beginning of the 21st century across the globe.  It's right up there with "the shot that rang out across the world," which was a case of political assassination setup... hmm, coinkidence!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:15 | 2597931 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Cui Bono?

Big (sometimes a False Flag) event, resulting in war(s), money lent, money spent on war items, and interest collected by lenders.

Pearl Harbor, WWII, MIC, central bank (the Fed)

Kennedy (Gulf of Tonkin), Vietnam, MIC, central bank (the Fed)

911, Iraq/Afghanistan, Haliburton et al & Chertoffs body scanners at airports, central bank (the Fed)

Seems to be a 'beneficiary' pattern in these. And also a pattern of created & scary boogyman too (Japs, Communist Viet Cong, & Fanatical Muslim Terrorists).

War is very profitable for a few.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:09 | 2597727 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



Actually, the Housing Price/Gold and Housing Price/Silver charts are screaming that it's time to trade your precious metals for a house...



Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:53 | 2597823 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

The RE market is not near the bottom yet.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:23 | 2597879 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

Whether that is a sound idea at the moment, it certainly seems so. Housing in PM is at a fantasy low right now. If one bought gold in 2001 and used it to buy a pretty good house now, you are looking at some deals.

 33 oz of gold will buy an all brick ranch style 2 bedroom with a nice yard and 2.5 car garage. (I did it) At $300/oz that gets a house for $4750. Of course one needs to consider the lost opportunity costs along the way, but you know all of that.

 Houses and many other goods are extremely cheap in terms of gold and silver. That is why I refuse to recommend buying Au/Ag for those that ask me what I think. Most of the askers would be better off if they bought long term storage foods from Costco as the foods have been extremely cheap in gold or silver.

 Get your basic needs purchased long before buying Au/Ag. These are ridiculously cheap in terms of gold bullion right now and in the past two years.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:51 | 2597954 reader2010
reader2010's picture

its the classical example of Value Trap! soon-to-be escalating property tax alone will not compute. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 02:22 | 2597984 devo
devo's picture

So buy a house.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:23 | 2597763 d2themfi
d2themfi's picture

uhh no, the dow gold chart implies the ratio is going to around 0.8 by about 2025 imo (check the exact ratios from peak to peak and valley to valley). I would probably buy the broad stock market when an ounce of gold equals a share of the dow. The fed has indeed been manipulative, but the bigger lesson from that graph is the increased volatility brought on from larger and larger bubbles which occur under an "elastic" money supply. I just cant decide if this current dow/gold cycle will mark the end of the dollar or if it will be the next one which will coincide with the social security/medicare/etc obligations. I tend to think the latter. Pricing assets in gold is pretty interesting though. home prices priced in real money seem to be well below long term average and actually at basically an all time low. If real estate investors and foreign buyers are providing a de facto price floor, even with a weak economy/weak lending environment real estate in select parts of the country (vegas, arizona, florida?) seems to be a nice alternative hard asset to diversify out of gold and silver a bit. Anyone agree/disagree?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 09:41 | 2598472 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

I'm in FLorida and seeing a lot of cash buyers getting houses from banks at 1/2 to 1/3 of mortgage balances. I'm trying to get the vacant lot next to my home to grow food!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:43 | 2597674 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Next time, please tell everyone how "obvious" all this was BEFORE it is revealed.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:14 | 2597866 inca
inca's picture

[emphasis mine]

A Powerful British Faction has Aligned with LaRouche

by Jeffrey Steinberg July 06,2012

It is almost impossible to overstate the strategic significance of the fact that an important group within the top echelons of the British Establishment have come to the conclusion that Glass-Steagall is the only survival option open to them. The July 3 Financial Times editorial endorsement of Glass-Steagall has been followed, over the past 48 hours, by a series of further endorsements by leading figures, from Peter Hambro, of the old British merchant banking family; to Lord Myners, former Financial Services Secretary in the Gordon Brown government and a Rothschild-sponsored banker; to Terry Smith, a leading City banker who had called for a return to Glass-Steagall at the time of the September 2008 Lehman Brothers and AIG blowout. In Italy, the newspaper of record, Corriere della Sera, came out Friday with a big push for Glass-Steagall by leading financial correspondent Massimo Mucchetti, who is known to have, in the past, been close to Romano Prodi and the De Benedetti interests.

These actions have been taken with the full knowledge that the fight for Glass-Steagall has been led—in the United States and in Europe—by Lyndon LaRouche. As he noted in the brief statement that appeared earlier, LaRouche is the only person qualified to engineer the return to Glass-Steagall and a system of fixed-exchange-rate sovereign currencies in the trans-Atlantic region. In discussions with colleagues today, LaRouche emphasized that, if leading figures in the trans-Atlantic governments do exactly what LaRouche has prescribed, we can go into an immediate economic recovery. "London has delivered a shot across the bow, and we are the world leaders on Glass-Steagall," LaRouche declared on Friday. "A group of responsible people in Britain has decided that the fate of everything that is important to them requires an immediate Glass-Steagall reform."

LaRouche added a crucial point: "This also means that they cannot any longer tolerate Obama in office. By moving as they have for Glass-Steagall, they are also committing to sink the bastard. They can no longer tolerate Obama's continuation in office in the United States." That is the crucial factor in our moving to remove Obama from the Presidency and the nomination before the Democratic nominating convention begins on Sept. 3.

It is crucial to understand that a grouping in London has concluded that the system has already blown, and they must act preemptively to save their interests. This opens the door for Obama's removal in time. The crimes of Obama are evident, from Fast and Furious—which was nothing else than a coverup of the flood of drug money that went to Obama's illegal election in 2008, courtesy of George Soros and that gang—to the most damaging leaks of national security secrets in the nation's history.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 06:11 | 2598100 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Yes, but chucking each other under the bus....not until prison sentences loom large and certain.....till then huff n puff n large round eyes with a few ooohs and ahhsssss,

Perhaps even a Coo'errr fancy that!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:26 | 2597624 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

LIBOR-gate is nothing.  Try Monetary System-gate.

Debt Money Tyranny is a fraud ENGINEERED TO BANKRUPT SOCIETY to the very inner party aligned with those who set this con game up...  Big Finance Capital.

Debt Money Tyranny

If you don't udnerstand the money flows of that chart, keep looking at it until you do.  Note society NEVER has enough money to pay back its debts, hence the need to constantly inflate to the breaking point.  If they didn't, the system would collapse due to the impossibility to pay back the debt.

Oligarch wealth is our debt - and their wealth is being concentrated, as is our debt.

Asymmetrical financial warfare is the method of the "scientific dictators."

As if that wasn't enough, the Trojan Horse that inflicts the criminal Debt Money Tyranny asymmetricl financial warfare model, criminally blew the world's largest credit bubble that is the ROOT CAUSE FO RTHE ONGOING BUST - that will get much, much, much worse in due time.

Weapons of Mass Debt

NOBODY in the establishment will tell you this.

Karl Denninger covers a few times a year.  I help out when I can...  Maybe 2 or 3 people have responded with specific references to these charts showing the ARCHITECTS AND CONTROLLERS OF THIS SYSTEM ARE THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE.

They aren't morons, THEY ARE YOUR ENEMY!

Please don't wait until your community is destitute to consider this truth.  It will be too late by then.

THE ENEMY will gladly play the fool...  b/c you will let them off the hook if they can convince you that they are merely fools.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:58 | 2597704 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Bang, bang, bang...whistle, whistle...bang, whistle... is this thing on?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:42 | 2597805 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

too deep to prove...


may they get theirs!  TDTP indeed!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:55 | 2597957 OmNamah
OmNamah's picture

Gold/Dow ratio breaking below normal SD zone doesn't mean gold would correct and dow would rise....but can also mean that both will rise but gold will rise faster and the ratio will drop further....

Btw I have tracked this that whenever there is a post on ZeroHedge (>75% probability) on gold you get a more than a 1% correction in gold & silver....zerohedge has made decent money for me this year shorting PM's. Whoever says that zerohedge has zeroedge in trading:) ....We will see how today goes....


Keep up the good work...if you are interested in Indian markets and its shit stories visit

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 03:48 | 2598048 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

"Your (There) time will come".... BITCHEZ

Another tune to brighten a ZH readers day in such dark times.

Great solo BTW @ 2:12 on... genius :)

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 09:32 | 2598436 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

Doesn't everyone also know that US gvt has a committee to control the dollar's value by contolling the gold price? I thought this was diclosed years ago.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:02 | 2597576 death_to_fed_tyranny
death_to_fed_tyranny's picture


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:21 | 2597613 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

we maybe in the streets soon

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:53 | 2597692 tmosley
tmosley's picture

When I asked Remy if he could help, this is what he had to say on the subject:

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 07:01 | 2598167 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:03 | 2597578 THECOMINGDEPRESSION


Central Banks are Nearing the 'Inflate or Die' Stage So hold tightly to your gold
Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:31 | 2597780 All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

For another view, the Money Power is reaching a point where they have to determine who gets their limbs cut off.

1. Hyperinflation will cut off the limbs of the debt holders and the cash holders

2. Debt deflation will cut off the limbs of debtors and nation states.

TBTF mega banks can't fail, by definition, so they don't really care which way it goes.

The problem the "straight to hyperinflation" folks have is that it requires:

1. The private banking cartel that makes the call to determine they will cut off their own limbs in order to bail out debtors.

2. That same banking cartel has to be dumber than a box of rocks for issuing 3.6% 30 year mortgages ahead of this "imminent hyperinflation."

3. You can't just "lose confidence" in the money anymore than you can "lose confidence in your mortgage" or student loan or car loan.  The debt holders won't let you do that, so YOU NEED MONEY OR YOU LOSE YOUR ASSET. 

If you lose the assets, the debt has to be written down - and that's deflation by definition.

Hyperinflation is the end game - of that there is little debate.

The operative question, for those who understand the system enough to even formulate the question, is, "will there be an asset strripping deflation ahead of the hyperinflation?"

I believe there will be.

That doesn't make gold bad - it isn't so long as it is in your possession and you can defend it.

$1,000,000 in the bank could easily turn to $0 in numerous ways.

But you might find that you get much better pricing in order to dollar cost average when such a deflationary "spiked pit" aheads of inflation occurs.

But you also have to consider that it might be h*ll on Earth to get physical gold because a societal asset stripping deflation is gonna be WICKED...  it won't be a gradual decline in prices.  We are talking about 50-90% of bank credit and investment digits being zeroed out - and the insiders have been preparing for this eventuality the last 4 years.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:14 | 2597928 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

All Risk, what does this mean for the average Joe who has a mortgage, and $10,000 in additional debt? If it all collapses, which it will, who will be coming to take over that mortgage and debt? Who will evict the resident and tell them they have to leave? Desperate people do desperate things!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 02:19 | 2597970 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

If I may?

This afternoon I was at a 2 hour class at Tuners Outdoorsman learning how to reload - shotgun reloading saves a little, brass reloads for pistol and rifle quite a savings.

Next I want to learn how to brew beer.

They won't shoot a beer maker that knows how to reload, will they?

Work on the secured debts (mortgages) at the expense of unsecured debt - if you own your home, or have a definite backup plan B, C, & D that will ensure those payments, you're good.

When Hyperinflation hits, you'll be able to pay off debts pennies on the dollar - problem is, getting there.

When the shit storm hits, few will have incomes, fewer will have assets worth anything - so how to hold on to your home WHEN it hits - savings, other income streams (beer making, etc), renting out spare rooms in your house to make mortgage payments. Think worst case scenario where you install 6 beds in a bedroom and put a sign outside your house saying "nightly bunk rental, $10 -- with shower, $15, with hot water, $20 -- family and group rentals negotiated, inquire within"

I agree with All Risk - the shit storm is coming, prepare as best you can, learn to make something people always need/will pay for, pay off secured debts at the expense of unsecured ones

Get your slickers on and Batten down the fucking hatches.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 02:37 | 2597998 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

and ONE more thing

pick the neighbor on either side that voted for Obama, that would never in 1,000 years own a rifle, offer to help plant bushes or trees or install a sprinkler system with them (on their property) -- and then, when they go away for the weekend, get your post hole shovel and some 3' x 6" pipe and caps, bury your $90-$150 rifles and ammo on their property, and then plant a couple nice plants on top.

That way you can keep an eye on your goods when DHS comes to take yours away.

I wouldn't recommend this for your gold or silver holdings.

AND if you're going to plant gold or rifles in a distant location, leave your cell phone at home.

Paranoid???? God Damn Right.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 03:14 | 2597969 Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

But you also have to consider that it might be h*ll on Earth to get physical gold because a societal asset stripping deflation is gonna be WICKED... it won't be a gradual decline in prices. We are talking about 50-90% of bank credit and investment digitsbeing zeroed out - and the insiders have been preparing for this eventuality the last 4 years.


If we get to that point, and so far it looks like a lock...

Gold will go into permanent backwardation. It will not be available for any amount of irredeemable greenbacks. It will be hoarded... like it's money.

We won't be able to buy it at any price. When the debt tower implodes, the ability of the USA to pay it's debts will become a very big issue. The Treasury market will be completely Corzined as the herd Pamplonas into gold. It will be unobtainium at that point.

As for ongoing well-known conspiracies in the precious markets...

Why won't Barrick, the largest miner going, respond to why it hedges it's ops after 12 straight years of losses? Its biggest competitors gave up hedging ages ago. So why does Barrick deliberately undermine its shareholders year and year out? Just so there are enough institutional shorts in the market to encourage other shorts and ensure the snakes are always bigger thanb the ladders?

You know it.

So who's been covering Barrick's losses all these years? The Treasury and the Fed?

You know it.

...If you don't have the jack for an oz, buy a quarter or an eighth coin or whatever you can. Gold will become unobtanium. BTMFD Bitchez.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 08:08 | 2598254 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

It is indeed wise to consider what the powerful players will do based on what is to ehri advantage. However, it is foolish to assume that the powerful players are all somehow in league and on the same side. They struggle against one another as well. the inflationary scenario shifts power, as does the delfationary scenario. Consider, though, that the inflationary scenario is mostly a tool of states and the deflaitonary scenario is moslty a tool of banks.
Consider that not all banks, and not all states, are on the same side. Theyre all wrangling for the upper hand, for power, for their own side-scams, and so on.

Consider the basic difference between these two tools. The inflationary tool allows you to print and buy up assets and anything else, from the rest of the economy. The deflationary tool allows you to activate legal mechanisms called contract law to enslave people and confiscate assets.

Consider that if you have these two mechanisms working against one another, those who are using the deflationary tool to force asset confiscation will be up against those who will print up any amount desired (and, so much more pleasant in a deflationary environment!) and buy everything.

Consider that at the end of the day armed force is the foundation of power, and on this the banks have relied on the state, and in most places the state retains overwhelming force. Corrupt politicians have placed this power at the disposal of various entities, but i would put my money on those closer to the real tool of power - armed force - to have the initiative in the final stages of the great 'collapsing empire' game. In the few rounds right before that, those who have the deflatoinary tool will find themselves being both outbid by those with the inflaitonary tool, and on top of that will find that those with the inflationary tool, who also are the ones who enforce the very laws and confiscations by which the deflationary tool operates, can withold the use of force to carry out the necessary moves of the deflationary tool.

It seems obvious that the deflationary tool is weaker and depends on a functioning state and civil law system, whereas the inflationary scenario is the obvious endgame.

How much will the deflationary tool be used until then? We have already been observing the shift to concentrating the shrinking pool of power in the hands higher up the ladder, to the detriment thus far of th emiddle classes. But expect that this trend will continue upwards. Observe the attempt by california politicians to pull the rug out from beneath the banks
re forclosed or delinquent mortgages. Until you see a bank raise an army to fight back,
you can conclude that the politicians are already feeling enough squeeze that they are abandoning rule of law and just grabbing directly. In such an environment, inflation will prevail.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:05 | 2597583 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Arrogant swine setting interest rates = epic fail.  Period. 

Let's clean house and put these psycho charades behind us.  Let the markets clear, assholes!!!  You think you're smarter than Adam Smith.  Piss off.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:06 | 2597854 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Given the smugness of (Barclay) Dimond's testimony though, it was clearly all done with a nod and a wink all around.

Maybe there is a clone factory and some cloen will go to a white-collar jail.

Unless something really big changes. And that might yet happen.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:56 | 2597889 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

The swine may, in fact, be already cleaning house themselves in their typical burnt sacrificial way to take up residence in a new hidey hole with a new grift...QIBOR

Or if they were going to establish a fresh gold-backed global ponzi they certainly couldn't have LIBOR standing in the way. 

I wonder how it must feel for all these high finance types (Yo! Bob Diamond!...with more to come) who may think they are Knights to then really discover they are just pawns being rooked and then casually disposed upon the board....

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:11 | 2597925 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

you can tell things are hotting up, as they begin to turn on each other. . .

no honour among thieves, and certainly no loyalty.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:46 | 2600952 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

[I don't have to tell you CA! :)]
Just make sure the popcorn is non-GMO organic!!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:05 | 2597584 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

Groucho Marxist is overrated.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:13 | 2597592 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

By the way, the Dow:Gold chart in this post is wrong and dangerously misleading.


Start in 1896 and put it in a linear scale.  Then you'll see WTF is going on.  The 'trend line' on this post is BS.


Try the last chart here:

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:29 | 2597633 Paladin en passant
Paladin en passant's picture

Correct.  Otherwise the rising trendline indicates that over long periods of time the Dow outperforms gold, which, if gold is an inflation hedge and intrinsic store of value, shouldn't happen.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:30 | 2597777 d2themfi
d2themfi's picture

Well no if the companies that comprise the dow are productive and create real value past the real rate of inflation (not CPI) then the dow should gain in value over time. The trendline for most of the US history was probably indeed very positive. Whether it has been over the last 40-60 years is up to debate. Regardless, even if it is still positive it is likely flattening as a result of all the things everyone on this site is already aware of

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:12 | 2597863 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

That is why I love this image right here. Explains the chart so well. Three bubbles since the inseption of the federal reserve and each one is worse than the last... lol.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:07 | 2597919 jomama
jomama's picture

hm. great link.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 08:58 | 2598347 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

Given the whimsical title of the blog, it is probably more an entry for a poetry prize..

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:11 | 2597595 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Time to hang Blythe from the lamp post

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:25 | 2597621 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

She doesn't have time to hang around. She's busy rigging commodity prices.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:01 | 2597845 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

r u kidding if jim in MN is right shes out of the country

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:14 | 2597602 Rock the Casbah
Rock the Casbah's picture

Just dreaming - but wouldn't it be a happy day when you could use your analytical skills to evaluate the markets? alas, it will likely never happen in our lifetime.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:14 | 2597603 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

The government has been manipulating and massaging every market

and all data for a very long time. Do we really need to act surprised?

Free markets and capitalism are only imaginary relics from times

past. Wake up and smell the coffee, the game has changed and central

management is in control, God help us.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:22 | 2597611 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

They can hide it in plain sight, 'cause Joe Sixpack's eyes glaze over whenever finances are brought up. Even if he gets mad, he figures "there's nothing I can do about it, so who cares?".

TPTB is counting on that.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:13 | 2597737 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

Though, here's an idea - why not have the "kardashians', gordon ramsay, jeff probst, Little E, the folks on SNL and on and on explain it.   Sort of.   Then 'the people' will get it.   Just like they 'get' everything else they're told by TeeVee.   Someone out there has to be able to do it?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:21 | 2597612 Nid
Nid's picture

If LIBOR can be, and is, manipulated, why not the VIX? Clearly ther are benefits to be reaped by suppressing it.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:35 | 2597655 Questan1913
Questan1913's picture

Let's be clear.  Everthing is gamed/rigged.  Cronyism rules.  It's so much worse than almost anyone imagines that it is not comprehendible.  

Universal corruption to further financial gain is all that matters.  Forget all the political ideology; that is just one of the myriad smoke screens, along with all the other manufactured distractions.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:37 | 2597661 HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

VIX has been broken...

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:24 | 2597617 JustACitizen
JustACitizen's picture

Didn't anyone tell you guys?

We're all muppets...sheep for the slaughter...fools.

The beauty of it was to manipulate something that most sheeples cannot wrap their heads around. They do not see the impact on their daily lives - just like derivatives. They (the people) trust that someone - likely in government - with greater knowledge is watching out for the greater good. They do not realize that altruism went out of fashion 40 or so years ago - if it was present even then.

Of course - slowly - people are coming to understand that something is really, really wrong. And then, they are going to look for someone to blame...even with Dancing with the Stars on. Someone might want to look up how many patricians got it in the neck because they were soooo visible - and easy to find.

Hubris is such an interesting can always be counted on to plant the seeds of it's own undoing. Boys and girls out there in the banks had better brush up on their Biblical Studies.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:25 | 2597619 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Conspiracy no, the end-game of Self-Absorption yes.

Of course there are small minds who enable and nudge and smirk and perhaps even masturbate to the turmoil...

Yes, it would behoove us all to accept where We are.


And then take it seriously.

Having kids helpful, but not required.


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:26 | 2597625 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

"Barclays simply CANNOT have manipulated the Libor rate alone."

They acted alone.  Many insiders have alleged that Barclays was mentally troubled and suffered from violent fantasies about LIBOR.  Besides if it were a widespread conspiracy, don't you think someone would have talked?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:34 | 2597653 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

I'm sure they talked a lot - and sent emails. My guess is that every big investment bank in Europe and the US has a really big stash of libor rigging emails in their email archives. The real question is not if people were talking but if there was someone listening. The "authorities" sure weren't.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:57 | 2597837 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

coke & hookers: +i

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:27 | 2597769 Roger Knights
Roger Knights's picture

He was being facetious, down-voters!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:33 | 2597779 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You are correct, sir.  I used the MSM's own absurd "loaded words" in an attempt at irony.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:30 | 2597634 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The manipulators have their dirty little fingers in everybody's pie.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:31 | 2597637 catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

Sorry. That's a fairy tale.

We would have never heard the words LIBOR and SCANDAL used together unless it was to become another scripted excuse to MODERNIZE another systemic something.

I did enjoy a brief moment of suspended disbelief and hope while reading it though, so thanks for that. I need that fix every few minutes now.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:33 | 2597649 valkir
valkir's picture

FYB,oh actualy i prefer Lauren Lyster btw.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:35 | 2597657 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Governments are already setting rates at zero. The question the authorities faced upon engaging in the Zero-bound rate policy is "how to effect something identical at the private level." Manipulating Libor seems fairly straightforward as a consequence. The question therefore is "will it work"...and if you're currency is the reserve currency of the world...namely the greenback...and "you don't have to QE anymore...but that other guy sure does" i would argue it's "game, set, match for dollar denominations." Hence oil, gold and commodities in general start selling off dramatically, treasuries soar in value...counter-cyclical policies can be maintained...the only question is whether or not social order can be. We shall see...but clearly the war which was supposedly being "wound down" with the election of BHO is expanding massively. And THAT is all we truly know here folks. Happy trading!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:39 | 2597666 walcott
walcott's picture

silver bitchez!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:40 | 2597669 jcpicks
jcpicks's picture

Too many politics are involved for any enforcement or action to be taken on this.....especially in an election year.

What could possilbly happen?  Disciplinary action on all banks?  If anything, I can see this as being spun to being not an illegality, but a 'loophole' that needs to be closed.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:08 | 2597706 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Just another case of "too big to be prosecuted"

Assuming every banker implicated has been "donating" to at least one politician, every congress and parliament in this world is bought and paid for ten times over. Anyone who thinks justice will come out of this has their head up their ass. At most, a few dip-shit fall guys will go to minimum security resort prison for a few years.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:30 | 2597778 Roger Knights
Roger Knights's picture

"Just another case of "too big to be prosecuted""

My coinage is catchier: "Too big to jail."

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:07 | 2597719 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

Or, it could be used by a shrewd politician to seize control of all the financial business and put it in the hands of the tyrant currently in charge of the white house....and in one fell swoop...he could also arrest all those 'corrupt politicans (who will mostly be republicans I'm sure) and get rid of the congress.   Not that I'm a fan of 'republicans'...


And with that...enjoy your evening!



Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:11 | 2597729 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

We already live in a tyranny and 90% of the public hasn't got a clue. This is fucking paradise for tyrants. It doesn't get any better. Why would they change it and risk making themselves more obvious to a greater segment of the population?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:43 | 2597675 Atlas Shrugging
Atlas Shrugging's picture

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." - H. L. Mencken

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:45 | 2597680 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Keeping our eye on the ball: what we are talking about here is full scale collusion between government and the financial sector to give the appearance of "Free Markets" driven by "the law of supply and demand" and "Private Enterprise" . You are free to fail. But they will always succeed. You will get fucked hard and regularly. They will be immune to Darwinian forces. You have only your own resources to live on. They live off sweetheart deals from the central bank and Congress.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:56 | 2597697 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

It's gotta be good news for Silver

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:12 | 2597735 jomama
jomama's picture

who the fuck knows.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:59 | 2597699 q99x2
q99x2's picture

The system would not grow on its own in the way the central banks needed it to grow so they committed and sanctioned fraud. Without fraud the system will have been found to have already imploded. So if the conspiracy theories become fact we won't see the shit coming at us because it is already here. You won't be able to get out in time.

Time for toast.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:03 | 2597712 I should be working
I should be working's picture

Doesn't your chart imply that now is the time to sell gold and buy stocks?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:11 | 2597731 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

No it means that there is still a ways to go before it hits a ratio of 1. And it also means that as high as the Dow gold ratio was at the peak it will probably overshoot to the downside.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:04 | 2597714 MunX
MunX's picture

J.P. Morgan must be shitting themselves. Silver $100 by years end bitches.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:07 | 2597721 JR
JR's picture

From such alignments of interest are the greatest of conspiracies born. – Grant Williams

Can anyone top this one, documented by law professor, Robert Hardaway, in The War on Baby Boomers today on, and which should be titled The War on Savers?

Writes Hardaway:

With multiple social "wars" now being labeled as such by the media, perhaps there’s room for one more on the pundits’ pages —a war on baby boomers.

Consider the hard working and frugal worker who, over a working lifetime of forty-five years, scrimps and saves and somehow manages to save a million dollars for retirement.  

In 1981, during the Reagan administration, a retiring worker could put that sum into US short term treasuries yielding a guaranteed and safe annualized return of $160,300 ($13,000 a month), or into either 10 or 30 year treasuries yielding in excess of $150,000 a year (over $12,000 month), with the principal left untouched and available to leave to family upon his death.

Now fast forward to 2012 pursuant to government policies designed to punish those who scrimp and save in order to subsidize those who do not. 

A retiring baby boomer who somehow manages to set aside that same million dollars for retirement and invests in the same risk-free US short term treasuries can expect his or her retirement savings to yield a grand total of  $65 a month, or, if willing to risk considerable reduction in principal if interest rates rise, $1,300 a month in 10 year treasuries.

For a retiree today investing in short term treasuries to earn the same amount as retirees earned in 1981, he would need a nest egg in excess of $200 million dollars. Which is fine for those who have a quarter billion or so to invest in short term treasuries, but not so great for the rest of us.

While the treasury yields in 1981 and 2012 obviously represent the ends of the retirement yield spectrum over the past 40 years, and yields have fluctuated considerably in the intervening  years, it should be noted that as recently as five years ago that even short-term treasuries yielded over $4,000 a month in guaranteed retirement income.  ...

They can, of course, invest in the stock or corporate bond market, and thereby risk an up to 50% decline in their retirement funds (as happened in 2007-08). Or they can eke out a slightly higher return by buying long term US and corporate bonds, and risk a decline of 50% or more in their principle when interest rates rise, as most believe they will in the face of mounting government spending and deficits and the pending collapse of the euro.  

They may even risk their retirement or 401(k) assets by buying a so-called “annuity” investing in private companies in hopes that the private companies won’t fail, as so many did during the last financial crisis. Or they can simply spend their principal in hopes that they will die within the next 10 or 20 years before their principal is depleted.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:20 | 2597755 Jackfish
Jackfish's picture

willing to risk considerable reduction in principal if interest rates rise


The bigger risk is if the principal is never paid back.  They're not going to be satisfied until they steal it all.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 05:47 | 2598088 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

The "new" investment return that eveybody will be chasing...... "return of your capital"...... EMP bitchez.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:04 | 2597849 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture

JR, +i!

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:07 | 2605538 Archduke
Archduke's picture

The demographic war revolves between older savers and younger producers. Investment, in a way, is a delegation of risk-taking unto the younger classes. It's the nature of things that at some point in time, the old don't have the energy and the competitive edge to run the business better themselves, and so they entrust that unto mutual funds and pay money managers fees to pick out those young new ventures that will. The interest on these translates to inflation, which of course is proportional and taxes the young at a further disadvantage. We must understand that boomer's savings are not physical capital assets. They are the embodied function of fatigue and fear of risk that come with old age. They are a proxy for the future opportunities of the youth. If these opportunities are lacking, then the value of the saved assets must fall in tandem, thus brining down prices and reducing the barriers for the youth to start up succesful new ventures.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:11 | 2597730 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

You know what makes me go Hmmmm?  This has NEVER been a secret?   Why would we even have a LIBOR rate?  

Why not just let the market set the price of debt (i.e. the negotiated cost of money between savers/lenders and borrowers) that we can all watch on the big screen as prices move in micro-pips back and forth throughout the day?  WHY?

Because that would be a free market!!  The only reason LIBOR exist is SO it can be manipulated and SO it can mask the otherwise true cost of debt?   It's anti-transparency by DESIGN!!   

And if we get from this "crisis" that LIBOR should not be manipulated (vs. abolished) then they will win again and go on with their cartel with a DEEPER level of opacity and an increased commitment to something that sounds virtuous but is, in fact, just more insidious than the first round.


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:12 | 2597733 JustACitizen
JustACitizen's picture

Another important tip for Bankers everywhere - when push comes to shove - the politicians that you thought were your friends - or you thought you had paid off sufficiently - can always, always be counted on to throw you to the mob baying for blood. If it is a question of you or them - rest assured - it will be you.

Sweet dreams.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:18 | 2597746 El
El's picture

As long as you keep playing their game, you are sanctioning their rules. Stop playing the game.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:19 | 2597749 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Anything capable of being manipulated is being manipulated. Any manipulation that TPTB allow to be recognized by the general public is simply another manipulation used to pave the way for bigger manipulations later.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:33 | 2597789 dAnconia
dAnconia's picture

In my humble opinion, the Libor scandal (which has a LONG way to go before it has played out and which will claim a LOT more scalps) will mark a fundamental change in the treatment of financial conspiracy theories in the media.

Tyler, I'm in complete agreement over the significance of the LIBOR manipulation. We have before us a clear manifestation of the fact that our "free markets" are, in an unrealistic best of cirumstances, a soft corporatist tyranny. The manipulation of these rates--essential to the circulation of capital at the most basic level--are clear evidence of a massively-coordinated and rigged system. Those who would tirelessly reject the possibility of such a long-term fraud being perpetrated by such a large number of colluding interests (who must have been actively involved) now have before their eyes undeniable proof of that reality.

While this still-unfolding revelation of broad criminal enterprise should be a game-changing opportunity to re-evaluate the supposedly benign nature of the government-media-financial complex, it is unfortunately just that--an opportunity, and one that will be surely be drowned out by a media suppine enough to move on to other things, and a government content to impose a mind-numbingly slow trickle of fines (at least for US-involved institutions).

You're being too optimistic about the potential for this thing to shake up the media dynamic. Conventions about transparency, "the need for oversight" and the importance of reigning in "rogue traders" will continue to be parroted, and we will see a bit of political fodder be made out of it since there is an election coming up. What you rightly see as evidence of concerted, flagrant, and undeniable abuses are never going to be covered with the enduring type of intensity that might ignite the structural changes you describe.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 08:58 | 2605501 Archduke
Archduke's picture

If anybody has been earnest in exposing libor fraud from the start, it's ZH.

This said I'm +1íng you anyway, for cogency and constructive idealism.


The thing about rates is that they are the basis for calculating the time value

of money, and through that, forwards, and thus every other instrument under the

sun.  Because of this crucial dependency it's essential to get price stabiity at

the rate level, in order to get on to business with the more complex stuff like



LIBOR fixing worked reasonably well when the dealers represented the market.

The ubiquity and scale of it drove us to the previous system, perhaps out of

sheer laziness, where the BBA just short-cutted proper bid/ask processes and

decided to just poll for indicative rates from the primary dealers, which made

sense as they used to hold the lion's share of credit origination back in the day.


Two things happened what put us in the pickles: (1) the emergence of offshore

eurodollars and a derivatives boom shooting notionals up to the stratosphere,

making the previous guestimate no longer representative of real market demands,

or rather the inverse: rendering the rest of the market hostage to the BBA dealers.

(2) political collusion from treasuries favouring firendly primary dealers and offering

rates at ridiculous discounts, basically the free money handouts that fueled the boom.


Ironically, eurodollars enabled a transparent way to price rate curves for the

medium and long term bonds/notes, where in additon to treasury rates basis

we also use futures and swap rates as fixings. Liquidity is your friend.  While on

the surface the idea of overnight credit seems very liquid, if it is forced through

the narrow spigot of a small coterie of primary dealers, then we have scarcity

and interference from predatory middlemen.


Simply put, all this OTC crap must disappear eventually.  It is doomed to, the

clock is ticking.  The rest of the world, ie derivatives, can't wait forever for the

dinosaurs of the fixed income world to get to speed.   To get the restructure under

way we need to impose both stick and carrot, which means prosecute and penalise

as well as create an exchange providing cleaner pricing.




Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:53 | 2597795 Roger Knights
Roger Knights's picture

"The allegations concerning precious metal price manipulation predate those surrounding Libor by decades but until now day they have remained similarly acknowledged within financial circles and ignored without. That may well be about to change."

I think it will be much harder for the MSM, regulators, and judges to pooh-pooh and squelch allegations of PM manipulations. They may decide they have to look under that rock. What they find may provide grounds for immense class-action gold-bug lawsuits.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:42 | 2597802 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

So now instead of just an Emperor without clothes, it's now an Emperor without clothes and a gerbil named Libor peeking out from between his butt cheeks?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:45 | 2597809 knowshitsurelock
knowshitsurelock's picture

The theory is that there is an asset class right now where one could move their capital and be safe and at the low.

The fact is that ALL asset classes are getting taken down in a controlled demolition of the globe.

So yes, this time is different. In the Weimar scenario, you could buy an acre of land for an ounce of gold, but people wanted shovels and seeds instead.

No one cares about much else when they are starving.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:50 | 2597815 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

At this point, people who don't believe in conspiracies should regarded as mentally unstable, but just the opposite is too often true. Since I believe 911 was an inside job and that SRA is widespread, my mental health is often questioned by doubters.

The multitude and magnitude of global conspiracies of the satanic elite know no bounds, folks. Just learn to accept this reality. Things will make a lot more sense.

This is a good piece, ZH. Thanks.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:36 | 2597945 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

Ah!  The batshit crazies are holding their own awards show, like Hollywood and the Oscars.  I’ve been reading this site for three years, and since the crazies migrated en masse (circa 2010) they have "educated" the few remaining sane readers of conspiracies such as chemtrails, HAARP, FEMA Camps, 911, CIA-created Bird Flu that was killing half of the Ukraine (remember the former contributor Project Mayhem and his assertion?), Bilderbergers or 33rd Degree Freemasons running the world, and even a Rothschild disguised as a serpent at the Garden of Eden.  Not a one has been proven correct.

Suddenly along comes something labelled “conspiracy”, about which not a single one of the wing nuts even hinted at (since they were all too busy with chemtrails), and they step up to congratulate themselves for (not) being ahead of something they never saw coming.  To top it off, in the worst kind of science or math style, they start trying to play Euclid and “prove” that since one conspiracy---which they never saw---has been proven true, EVERY single thing that has been labelled a “conspiracy” must also be true.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 23:56 | 2597831 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

you have to a be a moron NOT to see how this will play out. 


scapegoats will be made for the media circus and the banks as a whole, the syndicate will survive. simple. done. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 00:52 | 2597909 Anthony Migchels
Anthony Migchels's picture

To be honest, sometimes I wonder where the alternative press must have been to need Liebor to realize that this is a cartel. The Banking System is One. It rules the planet. It entails all the Central Banks AND the commercial banks and regulators and politics and much of the academia and press. It's a revoling door of lying and conniving crooks, raping us with usurious  fractional reserve banking.

Liebor is not the scandal of the century. The Financial system itself is the scandal.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 01:42 | 2597949 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

I personally want the gold and silver price suppression to continue for a few more years. I haven't accumulated nearly as much physical as I will need in the environment following the incineration of the US dollar and the collapse of the US Treasury "market". So, go GATA, but go slow. You'll get there in the end, but please don't make it too soon.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 02:27 | 2597992 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

This is probably why the MSM has been pushing all this Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes celebrity breakup crap so hard the past few weeks- distraction from the real issues such as the widespread financial terrorism waged by banks like Barclays. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 02:52 | 2598007 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"When does the new season of 'Idol' start?"


Jay Leno can ask 1,000 people at random about Libor and they will guess it is a new ED or birth control drug.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 02:55 | 2598012 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

What is good, prior to the manipulation, the markets were free.

Free markets at play...

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 03:05 | 2598017 silverdragon
silverdragon's picture

Cosimo de Medici

So Silver hasn't been manipulated?

Wake the f*ck up!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 03:06 | 2598019 pcrs
pcrs's picture

right, how naive to think the press will learn from it's mistakes and do some decent investigative research. Like this is the first time a scandal surfaced. Like central banks are not constantly manipulating interest rates with setting short term and operation twist. Why is there so much more attention for this interest rate setting manipulation, than the manipulation the fed and ecb do? Just because the crooks wrote a law that says that it is legal for them to do it?

No problem, that can be arranged for libor as well.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 03:13 | 2598025 pcrs
pcrs's picture

If you jave an interest rate that is a benchmark for over 500 trillion $ and is determined by a protected monopoly, what the hell would you expect? That these people are not influenced? A good crook will say and do anything to get to that position.

That is also why a self respecting psychopath always manages to get into a position of power:Stalin,Hitler, Mao, Polpot, Bush, Blair, Obama. That is why governments killed 200 million people last century (democide). Because if there is a position in society where you can use violence without repercussions:that is were they will get to one way or another.

Any central point of power is an entry point to exploit the masses. It is like a small wound in the skin for a parasite:heaven

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 03:46 | 2598047 Kit Green
Kit Green's picture

"It seemed almost as if the Treasury was trying to achieve the lowest price possible for the public’s gold. It was."

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 05:39 | 2598085 Venerability
Venerability's picture

On cue, Seeking Alpha is once again literally giving itself over to the Gold and Silver Shorts - spouting sillier nonsense than ever and marshalling every Script Bot in sight.

And there is a fella named Simon Lack, former close associate of "the Whale" at JPM in London and now calling himself a "consultant to hedge funds which trade via JPM" - Yes, literally! - with an organized anti-Silver campaign all over the Internet.

I don't know why they are doing this to THEMSELVES - because that is what it actually amounts to. No one is going to change their minds or switch sides at this point. These campaigns are pure propaganda, and all they do is make the smarmy propagandists - like Mr. Lack - look SCARED.

How much you wanna bet Ms. Blythe makes another "rare appearance" on Bubblevision this week?

Much more Silver trading is supposed to move to Asia from the Crimex TODAY - the 9th. And this could - well, should - be a very big week for the Brent spread above WTI blowing out again on Events - potentially moving to 16 or 17 by the end of the week.

The JPM Nexus is acting like puling little puppies - much as they did right before the MF Global implosion, which I do not thnk is the impression they really should want to give. 

In fact, if I were JPM New York, I would start BOOSTING the Silver price right about now, proving that it is divorcing itself effectively from JPM London and all it represents.




Mon, 07/09/2012 - 06:07 | 2598098 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

a question: my local gold & silver & coins guy ( i live in a small town, who wouldnt) will only buy gold and silver from me - when I try to buy from him nada. it has been this way the last 3 yrs. Even when I offer well over spot he will not sell? Why?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 06:16 | 2598104 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 07:03 | 2598126 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

 The sheer amount of coverage it will undoubtedly receive will signal a shift in attitude towards the exposing of such scandals rather than the blind-eyes that have been regularly turned in recent years.

I hope so. But, sadly, this does all depend on the ratings. Will anyone watch? Will anyone listen? Ultimately, it's still up to the viewers to fix this or lose themselves in unreal reality shows.

Here's a tip. Since many ratings are now measured automatically by electronic monitoring, just turn your TV on to the MAX Kaiser Report 24 hours a day. Even if you're not watching it all the time, they will think you are.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 07:09 | 2598171 JackT
JackT's picture

The only way this system gets fixed is if we assign it to the robots.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 09:01 | 2598318 Archduke
Archduke's picture

It's the whole system of credit that needs to be revamped.

Libor's an important facet, but so are the ratings agencies.

The key to sane credit is to scrap the predatory middlemen,

ie the primary dealers and the ratings agencies .


Unfortunately, credit's not a very fungible product.  Even

overnight deposits carry some counterparty default risk.

So a 50M loan from Y to X carries different price than one from

A to B.  How do you price that?  which rates do you select as

your basket?  And then you add the complexities of duration,

currency risk, etc...  that's why it used to take judgement calls.


These factors created our current OTC system of agencies and

intermediaries and polling for indicative rates that often aren't.

At the time that was the best way to solve the pricing problem.

But we need to move on.  we need to put all credit on exchanges.

we have smart math and models that can help fix disrepencies.

At the very least aim for a transparent process of price discovery.


We already do this for the medium part and long end of the curve,

where we base our rates on USD eurodollar futures for example.

Why we can't get our heads together and do this for the short end

is beyond me.  It must be that the primary dealers are too happy

to fleece the public.



Mon, 07/09/2012 - 08:51 | 2598335 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Am i the only one, that finds the TED-spread is looking like artificially locked?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 09:32 | 2598430 monad
monad's picture

Quantatative Easing: when you slip the truth to the marks slow enough that they don't react energetically when the realize they've been taken.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 10:38 | 2598613 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

I am so glad that government was vigorously regulating the banks, just like government vigorously regulates the precious metals market.   Move along, nothing is as it seems.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:57 | 2601228 rich_wicks
rich_wicks's picture

I had a good laugh over this part of the article:

Over the past few weeks, the exposure of the Libor-rigging scandal has monopolized the headlines of the financial press and inveigled its way onto the front pages of every major news publication in the world through the sheer size and scale of the story.

I remember when I still believed that once it was clear that Hussein never worked with binLaden, and that Hussein didn't have any sort of weapons of mass destruction program, people would have to deal with it, because how could you hide the scandal that your government obviously lied you into a war?

People need to grow up.  The reality is there won't be any day of reckoning until there isn't any financial system left.  Duh, it's corrupt, obviously.  Nothing is going to be done about it, the media isn't going to cover it, they are fucking propagandist paid whores.  They're not going to break any story.  Grow the fuck up.  Nobody is going to jail, nothing is going to happen, except the rich people are going to loot the system.

Deal with it, because that's what's going to happen whether you accept it or not.

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