As Treasury Continues Childish Sniping At S&P While Losing Credibility, Investors Lose Sleep

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Sat, 08/06/2011 - 20:57 | 1532053 mendigo
mendigo's picture

cool artical about this in (sorry) NY Times - re. S&P response

the us is not in danger of defaulting - the us has defaulted

it is printing money to buy it's own debt is that the action of a solvent country?

the us has gone banana republic (lo siento mis amigos)

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:03 | 1532067 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

You are wrong.  You don't know what you are talking about.  I am sure of that.  You see, I have discussed these topics with my friend that works at Moody's and he always tells me, in a very condescending way, that I don't know what I'm talking about when I say things like you are saying.

Oh yeah, and he hates gold, thinking it is just silly to buy it.  I bet you feel stupid now. 

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:26 | 1532089 Long-John-Silver
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Gold; that barbarous relic that became the worlds reserve currency yesterday that they can't quite come to terms with, yet.  

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 20:58 | 1532057 Irish66
Irish66's picture

The BS is so deep, no shovel will save us

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:53 | 1532130 Aragorn
Aragorn's picture

we're doing fine...keep shoveling

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 02:59 | 1532316 V10
V10's picture

Too Deep To Shovel

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 05:15 | 1532383 Taku
Taku's picture

NOT using 5% baseline?

Yeah, right. Err..I know about 100 financial sales 'analysts' that have investment vehicles that assume baseline 8% yoy for about a decade. These 'bosses' wanna walk the walk?

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 08:07 | 1532482 Irish66
Irish66's picture

We have "shovel ready projects"

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:00 | 1532059 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Here & in the now… some of the public figures we see & hear are guilty as sin. (still ?!?).  The “enemy within the gates” is so much more heinous than what we may have imagined. It is abominable the MSM treat them like superstars. Disgusting … Blah, spit, puke :-(

“This is the illuminati / satanic movement in this country today.”
“Right up to the White House.”
-Ted Gunderson

Watch [pay homage to] the following Ted Gunderson [an Ex-FBI guy] videos…

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 1_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 2_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 3_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 4_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 5_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 6_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 7_7 PL

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 01:52 | 1532279 Edward Fiatski
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You have to realise the 'Illuminati' have founded the United States of America and have been in control ever since; the path America takes is the road they've paved for it.

The current series of engineered crises, both sovereign debt & currency, have a final goal in common: destruction of the Constitutional REPUBLIC of the United States of America. You will get a North American Union in its place.

Question is, though: is there going to be a second Civil War, a World War 3, perhaps, to facilitate the transition for the aforementioned scheme. :-)

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 06:26 | 1532413 falak pema
falak pema's picture

why should the founding fathers who made the country want to seed it from inception to destroy it as they are supposedly still in charge? 

What sort of perverted logic makes you stick you head u know where to say such things? Do you kill your own child knowingly? 

Mon, 08/08/2011 - 06:25 | 1533872 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

The Founding Fathers knew America would not survive in its on-paper concept state; what you fail to realise is that America is 'just' another country, being the host of operations for the 'Founding Fathers'.

If you don't know the final goal of the game by now, then you won't see a thermonuclear World War coming.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:00 | 1532061 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I look forward to our meeting at work on Monday.  I fear that i am going to really fly off the handle when this topic comes up.  The mindless drones that surround me are sure to be of the opinion that this is an unfair, and dangerous, move by S&P.  They will gnash their teeth at the thought of any reality entering into the financial world.  It will take all of the self-discipline I have to not stoop to, "why don't you just shut your fucking mouth for once and quit boring us with your endless bullshit?"  That will be a challenge.

I noticed this morning that the premium on physical gold had shot up.  What has been going for $42 over spot, as recently as Friday, is listed at $62  over spot right now.  I didn't know why this had happened.  Then I thought that maybe it should have gone up more when I started reading these articles.

The big story here is not the downgrade.  The big story here is that the truth is slipping into the market, whether intentional or not.  That is why I think this will be so destructive to the markets.  These markets, like Tom Cruise, can't handle the truth.  Once the truth starts entering the picture it is going to be hard to stop it.  That should be the fear.  

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:04 | 1532073 Goldilocks
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Market volatility. Mmm Mmmm Good.

Technotronic - Pump Up The Jam
(sorry about that horned bitch Lady Garbage ad frame)
(if “it” hurts your eyes, adjust the width of the browser)
(Froggoroth commented, “This video sets off my epilepsy.” ;-)

Have a great weekend ya’ll ;-)

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:06 | 1532076 Everyman
Everyman's picture

WELL SAID!!!  The "truth" has not been around the markets for about 2.5 years, and you are correct.  It amazes me that economic and financial types "don't get it" and somebody like me, an arm chair economist and investor can pick on this brutally obvious line of BS.

When this starts it wil be the SHTF moment, and there will be violent retribution, mark my words.  These idiots keep going on  and on on how great the economy is and the "recovery" yet there has never been none.

These "geniuses" all think the "market" is the "economy, yet will tell you that exact think to justify their over exuberant position.  Mindless and soulless.

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 01:04 | 1532233 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

US Treasury response:  "The USA is NOT as pregnant as the S&P sez it is!"  Guess the US Govt doesn't know what ZERO CREDIBILITY means!

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 11:21 | 1532528 espirit
espirit's picture

Have been wondering where the Treasurys "other pocket" containing that $$2 Trillion was located. 

Still not sure whether unpatriated multinational profits, SS, medicare, federal and private 401(k) retirement funds, or undisclosed assets might be part of the mix (pockets).

Wash, rinse, shake out the loose change - Bitchez.

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 11:29 | 1532566 espirit
espirit's picture

The more I hear, the more I hear "political posturing". Bah!

Rome is burning, and the political idiots are playing king of the hill.

Recall them all!

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:28 | 1532155 km4
km4's picture

The big story here is not the downgrade.  The big story here is that the truth is slipping into the market, whether intentional or not.  That is why I think this will be so destructive to the markets.  These markets, like Tom Cruise, can't handle the truth.  Once the truth starts entering the picture it is going to be hard to stop it.  That should be the fear.

You nailed it !

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 00:43 | 1532215 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Physical premiums are up...Good observation. I was looking for a gauge today, never though of that.

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 11:39 | 1532613 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Real Price Discovery Bitchez!

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:05 | 1532062 Galen Slade
Galen Slade's picture


Amusing in a "feed the Christians to the Lions" kind of way.  I don't feel too bad, I went short the market with a couple positions just before the close Friday, figuring there would be some sort of bad news over the weekend leading up to Bernake in Jackson Hole II.   Should have bet the farm - I probably would have been able to retire to somewhere nice, like Lithuania, by Monday afternoon....

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 00:32 | 1532204 fuu
fuu's picture

They have 13.4 Mbps internet speeds there.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:01 | 1532064 Everyman
Everyman's picture

I wish these "economic assholes" would stop worrying about the God Damn MARKET and START worrying about the GOD DAMN ECONOMY!!!!!

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:03 | 1532070 Diablo
Diablo's picture

theme for sunday/monday...

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:12 | 1532080 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill, "this is not the end of the U. S. as a sovereign nation, it is not even the beginning of the end, but it "is" the end of the beginning."


For we silver buyers tomorrow night and next week may offer one last opportunity to get silver for under $40 per ounce!?  Silver, still largely perceived by most of the braindead masses as only an industrial metal combined with interest rates set to go up, at least a short term negative price environment "may" rear itself beginning at 5 PM CST this Sunday night?  Be prepared!

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:29 | 1532097 pan
pan's picture

It's a downgrade we can believe in, bitchez!

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:29 | 1532098 oogs66
oogs66's picture

This guy get the short straw? Timmay too busy to write? Our government is a joke.

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 05:00 | 1532378 MarketTruth
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Timma has ZERO credibility in the USA, Asia, Europe, etc. As such, the USA props up the next puppet monkey (who will eventually be spanked down and so puppet monkey #3 will enter the scene). Wash, rinse, repeat.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:31 | 1532104 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Who cares if the markets don't factor in the SP downgrade... what's really important is the situation in Europe. If Italy goes down, Europe goes down and if it goes down, the world goes down.

Not to mention, Fitch is finishing their credit analysis of the US and will probably downgrade the US by the end of the month. Also, next up for downgrade, probably this week or next week : FRANCE... and if France goes down, Europe goes down...

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:33 | 1532106 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

Anyone looking at FSG? - ETF long gold and short S&P. Very interesting

Via The Daily Crux -

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:40 | 1532111 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

That light you think is the end of the tunnel is actually a flash crash in progress.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:42 | 1532114 reefermadness
reefermadness's picture

I'm scared the sky is falling. ZH told me so. Get some sleep for gods sake...

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:44 | 1532117 Cocopele
Cocopele's picture

Or....... there is this perspective from Martin Armstrong


Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:54 | 1532138 reefermadness
reefermadness's picture

Exactly if anyone should be losing sleep its the dumbshits at the S&P.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:39 | 1532169 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

Ok, I'll bite.  Armstrong has a point.

One day later . . . and I'm skeptical.

Skeptical of the trading Thursday and Friday.  Skeptical of the Downgrade.  Skepitcal of the instant analysis.

There may be an equity selloff Monday probably will.   But I see a viscious rally after the spin doctors get to work.

This thing just wont be allowed to go down, because money is a lot of things.  Including Laws, corrupted or not.  Including Government authority, corrupted or not. 

PMs will do well, dont get me wrong.  But an instant systemic collapse is going to be really hard to materialize.

For one, everybody expects one.  Where are they going to go?  Cash?  OK for how long?  Gold and Treasuries is my guess.  But for how long?  Big stable equities?  How long.

Bread and Circus will once again be the order of the day.  The slave pshycology does not lose its grip just because one rating agency finally does what they should do.

Rome was not built in a day.  And neither did it collapse in one.


Sun, 08/07/2011 - 06:29 | 1532417 falak pema
falak pema's picture

So to summarise your skepticisim : go long decline of new roman empire...?

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 11:34 | 1532590 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

yes.  sure bet.

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 11:35 | 1532592 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

The CCCP came apart pretty quickly.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:50 | 1532122 radish juice
radish juice's picture

Well treasury is going through expected emotions on the downgrade. First they were in denial, now they are expressing anger, we need to wait until they enter acceptance phase, who know how long it will last though because they were in denial for a long time. Sooner they reach acceptance better of all of us will be. On Timmy's credibility, its a topic of discussion for another day...

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:53 | 1532125 gwar5
gwar5's picture



For Whom the Downgrade Tolls....

Maybe an Affirmative Action intervention can help Geithner and Doh-Bama excuse their fantasy economics and lower the official standards for them, just this once, or something. 

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:55 | 1532128 MrBinkeyWhat
MrBinkeyWhat's picture

TP (Treasury paper) is NOT Toilet Paper. Repeat, wash, repeat. TFN.

That is official.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 21:53 | 1532132 gwar5
gwar5's picture



For Whom the Downgrade Tolls....

Maybe an Affirmative Action intervention can help Geithner and Doh-Bama excuse their fantasy economics and lower the official standards for them, just this once, or something. 

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 07:04 | 1532439 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Wow, could that Martin Armstrong article be a bigger piece of shit? 

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:13 | 1532146 gwar5
gwar5's picture



These clucks all knew the downgrade was coming and that's why it was dumped on a Friday.

Those fantasy growth numbers were well known and baked into the cake a long time ago -- so does this mean real numbers are going to matter from now on? 

The Hurt Stick has a ways to go. How about fake assumptions for tax revenues? How about fake assumptions for savings from Obamacare? How about those fake BLS and inflation numbers?

All rosy scenario lies.


Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:35 | 1532163 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Geithner called the hapless fuck from the yacht -- or the tenth tee -- and ordered him to issue what became a hollow attempt at plausibility, one that can only make things worse. 

And now the German refusal. Monday should be interesting. The Hamptons could be empty by Wednesday.

Sun, 08/07/2011 - 00:47 | 1532220 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

I heard that Geithner only has like a 2.5 million dollar net worth.

Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:36 | 1532170 pods
pods's picture

Reminds me of the scene in Dumb and Dumber when Lloyd and Harry are arguing:

"You can't triple stamp a double stamp."

I mean, this is all just BS to begin with.  One bullshitter (S&P) called bullshit on another one(US GOV).

These guys all lie for a living, and get handsomely paid for it.



Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:47 | 1532183 alexwest
alexwest's picture

cant believe fuckign liars on both sides

here's treasury man answer. did anybody read one ? i did..

there's chart based on S/P data that ratio GDP/NET DEBT OF FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL is only under 80% in 2011..

who is fuckign kidding whom??? does those people from s%p/treasury completely lost minds?

gdp is ~14 trln (and in reality is much lower), official debt is 14+ trln.. how is is possible to have ratio less 100%? and state/local debt is not included..

fuckers... seems 1 small crook (s/p) jsut crossed bigger crook, and one is bitching...


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