As Treasury Continues Childish Sniping At S&P While Losing Credibility, Investors Lose Sleep

Tyler Durden's picture

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mendigo's picture

cool artical about this in (sorry) NY Times - re. S&P response

the us is not in danger of defaulting - the us has defaulted

it is printing money to buy it's own debt is that the action of a solvent country?

the us has gone banana republic (lo siento mis amigos)

WestVillageIdiot's picture

You are wrong.  You don't know what you are talking about.  I am sure of that.  You see, I have discussed these topics with my friend that works at Moody's and he always tells me, in a very condescending way, that I don't know what I'm talking about when I say things like you are saying.

Oh yeah, and he hates gold, thinking it is just silly to buy it.  I bet you feel stupid now. 

Long-John-Silver's picture

Gold; that barbarous relic that became the worlds reserve currency yesterday that they can't quite come to terms with, yet.  

Irish66's picture

The BS is so deep, no shovel will save us

Aragorn's picture

we're doing fine...keep shoveling

V10's picture

Too Deep To Shovel

Taku's picture

NOT using 5% baseline?

Yeah, right. Err..I know about 100 financial sales 'analysts' that have investment vehicles that assume baseline 8% yoy for about a decade. These 'bosses' wanna walk the walk?

Irish66's picture

We have "shovel ready projects"

Goldilocks's picture

Here & in the now… some of the public figures we see & hear are guilty as sin. (still ?!?).  The “enemy within the gates” is so much more heinous than what we may have imagined. It is abominable the MSM treat them like superstars. Disgusting … Blah, spit, puke :-(

“This is the illuminati / satanic movement in this country today.”
“Right up to the White House.”
-Ted Gunderson

Watch [pay homage to] the following Ted Gunderson [an Ex-FBI guy] videos…

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 1_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 2_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 3_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 4_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 5_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 6_7 PL

Ted Gunderson - The Great Conspiracy Exposed 7_7 PL

Edward Fiatski's picture

You have to realise the 'Illuminati' have founded the United States of America and have been in control ever since; the path America takes is the road they've paved for it.

The current series of engineered crises, both sovereign debt & currency, have a final goal in common: destruction of the Constitutional REPUBLIC of the United States of America. You will get a North American Union in its place.

Question is, though: is there going to be a second Civil War, a World War 3, perhaps, to facilitate the transition for the aforementioned scheme. :-)

falak pema's picture

why should the founding fathers who made the country want to seed it from inception to destroy it as they are supposedly still in charge? 

What sort of perverted logic makes you stick you head u know where to say such things? Do you kill your own child knowingly? 

Edward Fiatski's picture

The Founding Fathers knew America would not survive in its on-paper concept state; what you fail to realise is that America is 'just' another country, being the host of operations for the 'Founding Fathers'.

If you don't know the final goal of the game by now, then you won't see a thermonuclear World War coming.

WestVillageIdiot's picture

I look forward to our meeting at work on Monday.  I fear that i am going to really fly off the handle when this topic comes up.  The mindless drones that surround me are sure to be of the opinion that this is an unfair, and dangerous, move by S&P.  They will gnash their teeth at the thought of any reality entering into the financial world.  It will take all of the self-discipline I have to not stoop to, "why don't you just shut your fucking mouth for once and quit boring us with your endless bullshit?"  That will be a challenge.

I noticed this morning that the premium on physical gold had shot up.  What has been going for $42 over spot, as recently as Friday, is listed at $62  over spot right now.  I didn't know why this had happened.  Then I thought that maybe it should have gone up more when I started reading these articles.

The big story here is not the downgrade.  The big story here is that the truth is slipping into the market, whether intentional or not.  That is why I think this will be so destructive to the markets.  These markets, like Tom Cruise, can't handle the truth.  Once the truth starts entering the picture it is going to be hard to stop it.  That should be the fear.  

Goldilocks's picture

Market volatility. Mmm Mmmm Good.

Technotronic - Pump Up The Jam
(sorry about that horned bitch Lady Garbage ad frame)
(if “it” hurts your eyes, adjust the width of the browser)
(Froggoroth commented, “This video sets off my epilepsy.” ;-)

Have a great weekend ya’ll ;-)

Everyman's picture

WELL SAID!!!  The "truth" has not been around the markets for about 2.5 years, and you are correct.  It amazes me that economic and financial types "don't get it" and somebody like me, an arm chair economist and investor can pick on this brutally obvious line of BS.

When this starts it wil be the SHTF moment, and there will be violent retribution, mark my words.  These idiots keep going on  and on on how great the economy is and the "recovery" yet there has never been none.

These "geniuses" all think the "market" is the "economy, yet will tell you that exact think to justify their over exuberant position.  Mindless and soulless.

StychoKiller's picture

US Treasury response:  "The USA is NOT as pregnant as the S&P sez it is!"  Guess the US Govt doesn't know what ZERO CREDIBILITY means!

espirit's picture

Have been wondering where the Treasurys "other pocket" containing that $$2 Trillion was located. 

Still not sure whether unpatriated multinational profits, SS, medicare, federal and private 401(k) retirement funds, or undisclosed assets might be part of the mix (pockets).

Wash, rinse, shake out the loose change - Bitchez.

espirit's picture

The more I hear, the more I hear "political posturing". Bah!

Rome is burning, and the political idiots are playing king of the hill.

Recall them all!

km4's picture

The big story here is not the downgrade.  The big story here is that the truth is slipping into the market, whether intentional or not.  That is why I think this will be so destructive to the markets.  These markets, like Tom Cruise, can't handle the truth.  Once the truth starts entering the picture it is going to be hard to stop it.  That should be the fear.

You nailed it !

Spitzer's picture

Physical premiums are up...Good observation. I was looking for a gauge today, never though of that.

Galen Slade's picture


Amusing in a "feed the Christians to the Lions" kind of way.  I don't feel too bad, I went short the market with a couple positions just before the close Friday, figuring there would be some sort of bad news over the weekend leading up to Bernake in Jackson Hole II.   Should have bet the farm - I probably would have been able to retire to somewhere nice, like Lithuania, by Monday afternoon....

fuu's picture

They have 13.4 Mbps internet speeds there.

Everyman's picture

I wish these "economic assholes" would stop worrying about the God Damn MARKET and START worrying about the GOD DAMN ECONOMY!!!!!

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill, "this is not the end of the U. S. as a sovereign nation, it is not even the beginning of the end, but it "is" the end of the beginning."


For we silver buyers tomorrow night and next week may offer one last opportunity to get silver for under $40 per ounce!?  Silver, still largely perceived by most of the braindead masses as only an industrial metal combined with interest rates set to go up, at least a short term negative price environment "may" rear itself beginning at 5 PM CST this Sunday night?  Be prepared!

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

pan's picture

It's a downgrade we can believe in, bitchez!

oogs66's picture

This guy get the short straw? Timmay too busy to write? Our government is a joke.

MarketTruth's picture

Timma has ZERO credibility in the USA, Asia, Europe, etc. As such, the USA props up the next puppet monkey (who will eventually be spanked down and so puppet monkey #3 will enter the scene). Wash, rinse, repeat.

lolmao500's picture

Who cares if the markets don't factor in the SP downgrade... what's really important is the situation in Europe. If Italy goes down, Europe goes down and if it goes down, the world goes down.

Not to mention, Fitch is finishing their credit analysis of the US and will probably downgrade the US by the end of the month. Also, next up for downgrade, probably this week or next week : FRANCE... and if France goes down, Europe goes down...

putbuyer's picture

Anyone looking at FSG? - ETF long gold and short S&P. Very interesting

Via The Daily Crux -

Long-John-Silver's picture

That light you think is the end of the tunnel is actually a flash crash in progress.

reefermadness's picture

I'm scared the sky is falling. ZH told me so. Get some sleep for gods sake...

Cocopele's picture

Or....... there is this perspective from Martin Armstrong


reefermadness's picture

Exactly if anyone should be losing sleep its the dumbshits at the S&P.

Re-Discovery's picture

Ok, I'll bite.  Armstrong has a point.

One day later . . . and I'm skeptical.

Skeptical of the trading Thursday and Friday.  Skeptical of the Downgrade.  Skepitcal of the instant analysis.

There may be an equity selloff Monday probably will.   But I see a viscious rally after the spin doctors get to work.

This thing just wont be allowed to go down, because money is a lot of things.  Including Laws, corrupted or not.  Including Government authority, corrupted or not. 

PMs will do well, dont get me wrong.  But an instant systemic collapse is going to be really hard to materialize.

For one, everybody expects one.  Where are they going to go?  Cash?  OK for how long?  Gold and Treasuries is my guess.  But for how long?  Big stable equities?  How long.

Bread and Circus will once again be the order of the day.  The slave pshycology does not lose its grip just because one rating agency finally does what they should do.

Rome was not built in a day.  And neither did it collapse in one.


falak pema's picture

So to summarise your skepticisim : go long decline of new roman empire...?

Spastica Rex's picture

The CCCP came apart pretty quickly.

radish juice's picture

Well treasury is going through expected emotions on the downgrade. First they were in denial, now they are expressing anger, we need to wait until they enter acceptance phase, who know how long it will last though because they were in denial for a long time. Sooner they reach acceptance better of all of us will be. On Timmy's credibility, its a topic of discussion for another day...

gwar5's picture



For Whom the Downgrade Tolls....

Maybe an Affirmative Action intervention can help Geithner and Doh-Bama excuse their fantasy economics and lower the official standards for them, just this once, or something. 

MrBinkeyWhat's picture

TP (Treasury paper) is NOT Toilet Paper. Repeat, wash, repeat. TFN.

That is official.

gwar5's picture



For Whom the Downgrade Tolls....

Maybe an Affirmative Action intervention can help Geithner and Doh-Bama excuse their fantasy economics and lower the official standards for them, just this once, or something. 

WestVillageIdiot's picture

Wow, could that Martin Armstrong article be a bigger piece of shit? 

gwar5's picture



These clucks all knew the downgrade was coming and that's why it was dumped on a Friday.

Those fantasy growth numbers were well known and baked into the cake a long time ago -- so does this mean real numbers are going to matter from now on? 

The Hurt Stick has a ways to go. How about fake assumptions for tax revenues? How about fake assumptions for savings from Obamacare? How about those fake BLS and inflation numbers?

All rosy scenario lies.


Ponzi Unit's picture

Geithner called the hapless fuck from the yacht -- or the tenth tee -- and ordered him to issue what became a hollow attempt at plausibility, one that can only make things worse. 

And now the German refusal. Monday should be interesting. The Hamptons could be empty by Wednesday.

Spitzer's picture

I heard that Geithner only has like a 2.5 million dollar net worth.

pods's picture

Reminds me of the scene in Dumb and Dumber when Lloyd and Harry are arguing:

"You can't triple stamp a double stamp."

I mean, this is all just BS to begin with.  One bullshitter (S&P) called bullshit on another one(US GOV).

These guys all lie for a living, and get handsomely paid for it.



alexwest's picture

cant believe fuckign liars on both sides

here's treasury man answer. did anybody read one ? i did..

there's chart based on S/P data that ratio GDP/NET DEBT OF FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL is only under 80% in 2011..

who is fuckign kidding whom??? does those people from s%p/treasury completely lost minds?

gdp is ~14 trln (and in reality is much lower), official debt is 14+ trln.. how is is possible to have ratio less 100%? and state/local debt is not included..

fuckers... seems 1 small crook (s/p) jsut crossed bigger crook, and one is bitching...