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The "Treaty" Negotiations
Via Peter Tchir of TF Market Advisors,
Well, it seems like the ECB is telling the countries they need to change the treaty if they want the ECB to act more like the Fed (giving up the pretense of sterilization). Maybe the move is designed to push the issue and make the summit come up with an even bigger plan (regardless of how unlikely it would be to get implemented).
That is certainly a possibility. On the other hand, more countries have to be getting nervous about the control they are ceding. Solid countries like Finland and the Netherlands may question why they should give up more control. Why they should let the central bank do more than was originally intended. Are they confident that the changes will fix the problem, or are they more scared that the situation will be made worse, and they will have greater difficulties in the future, all because they gave up more control? Small countries must also be getting nervous. It is clear that power is shifting to Germany and to a less extent France. They have to weigh the benefit of remaining in a euro where they give up more and more of their sovereignty.
It is clear why Germany and France want treaty changes, and may be willing to give the ECB more rights. It is equally clear why Spain and Italy would support any form of agreement, especially if it needs approvals before being implemented, so they can keep their options open. Belgium is probably in for whatever it takes since the Dexia bailout is adding to their existing problems, and more power for the EU politicians in Brussels is beneficial to their economy. What Ireland and Portugal are thinking is a bit of a mystery. No matter what they are saying publicly, they must be wondering if default and a fresh start isn’t a better option than giving up more power to the EU.
It isn’t just the fear of too much influence on all policies by the Germans and French, but that policies will be too focused on Spain and Italy that may make them even more reluctant to sign up.
The chance of a smiling hand-holding photo op has greatly diminished.
Chart: Bloomberg
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Super Mario to the rescue. (my rescue that is)
The Finnish parliament ruled today that the treaty change as outlined would be unconstitutional. It will be interesting to see what the workaround is going to be.
Workaround.
Yes, that's what it will be.
Simon tell it like it is
'The chance of a smiling hand-holding photo op has greatly diminished.'
Wow.
there will continue be smiling hand holding photo ops, all the way to the bitter end.........its what politicians do.......
I think I remember a Banzai "Thelma and Louise" piece like this....
It's called kick the can. They have shit for the markets from this meeting except a promise to do something again at a later date. In reality, there isn't shit they can do to fix this except keep it going somehow. So, tomorrow, expect some grand plan to "adjust" the treaty in say...six months or so. Can kicked a bit again.
Treaty my polish(ed) ass
Germany trying to push euro much lower, get contracts and then ECB will act.
France does not have much to say... just follow
Lying ass Pasani is making me sick.
He has been telling people everyday during the last two weeks that the ECB will print money right after the summit (contrarily to the actual facts and statements from the ECB and Draghi).
What a POS this bozo Pasani.
I wouldn't bet against this outcome. One of the explicit goals of Eurocrats is to punish speculators. Watch out for a faux solution followed by ECB buying and a massive short squeeze. If you're short, you may get your face ripped off in a scorch to Dow 14k.
Looks like this bull is about to get sheered like the rest of the sheep!!!
Euro collapse guaranteed in the next year!
Problem with a 'massive short squeeze' is short interest is low. That short squeeze already happened from DOW 10,900 a few weeks ago. 14,000? Come on give me a break.
A short squeeze when every idiot (both retail and institutional imbeciles) and his/her grandmother are levered up to their ears and waiting for the Santa Claus rally?
Nah, ain't gonna happen.
BTW, Whatever you're smoking, I want some.
These are nation states, if they feel this treaty modification is unacceptable they don't have to sign. They can then leave the Euro game and eventually the Euro market. What is the problem? Its make or break time amongst people who signed the Maastricht treaty which NONE of them respects at this moment. So they are all infringing their given treaty word. If they don't like the remedial action, discipline required to come back to "beyond" Maastricht levels of debt constraints, and henceforth enforce its control, such that derailment never happens again, they can walk away. And face the consequences, each on his own, facing the cannibalistic market run by Oligarchs. Its a free world for Nation states, even bankrupt ones. What's the big deal?
Choose your fate. Nobody says you will die in front of a firing squad. You will probably die from bankruptcy of your own choice by the actions of a relentless market. But that is precisely what sovereignty means.
The only issue that interests the Oligarchs carrying the big Bazooka of market play is : We don't want our banks to burn. We don't give a shit about your population and its welfare. So be brave...nation state.
thank you for writing what I thought
I have the impression that some ZH commenters have no concept of sovereignty, though
Sooo we're back in the cycle of short at close, cover at 10:30, and go long at 11ish [rinse, wash, repeat]
They admitted a recession so we may get the official downgrade today
Sooo go super long as this is a push to get the treaty altered so the ECB can ctl+p to infinity as well.
If all that comes out of this meeting is proposing a new treaty with new guidelines that will be ignored like the last ones that 17 or 27 groups need to take back to be voted on, we are all in trouble..
The immediate counter-intuitive takedown of Gold/Silver gives a clear warning that the Central Banks stand ready to squash any dissent versus fiat money alternatives.
And so it will be until people around the world stop accepting it or have none. Guess which one I would bank on happening first? Got physical?
The most critical country is going to be UK.
QQQ only $3 from 10-year highs.
Where is the recession?
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/kaavio.Webhost/charts/big.chart?nosetti...
On March 20, 2000 QQQ was 117.
The recession from 2000 never really ended then ?
So you were the one that loaded up on QQQ in Jan/Feb of 1999.
I am beginning to think they cannot get any meaningful agreement this weekend.
The German/French tactic seems to have been to leave it to the last minute and threaten Armageddon.
They are aiming for a total takeover of Europe.
The suggestion by the Weasel Von Rumpey will not fly.
This is going to end badly.
Dig deep in FSB policy designed by Draghi and you will get your answers.
The current 'crisis' is really a staged pantomime and power grab to create a fiscal union and later, a political union.
never waste a good crisis to enslave, fear monger, and conquor
The theatre going on here is to force the Euro nations to cede fiscal and monetary authority to a regime controlled by the banking cartel; it's as simple as that. If the quadrillion in derivatives implodes, the Rothschilds, Morgans, Rockefellers et al might have to apply for food stamps; we can't have that now can we?
Yes, a few WORTHLESS families which have never produced 1 thing in the world except misery and death must be saved, even if that means billions of people must die.
And I think to myself.....what a wonderful world!
force? ehmm... I would not use the word "force".
17 countries ceded their monetary authority to the ECB ten years ago, can't remember any "forcing"
fiscal authority? well, what's so authoritative in overspending ad absurdum? it's also called "living beyond your means"
and for the derivatives, there would be such a simple, radical solution: reset the laws to the 60's - just forbid them. they are only a tool for the banks to chain themselves to each other so that they can make political demands
Anyone have a link to this news about the new ruling by the Finnish parliament?
It was actually Constitutional Law Committee of Finland but I'd guess it is the same all over Europe. The control of a government budget cannot be assigned partly to some foreign party. Going to be interesting tomorrow.
Thanks Tim73. Why did Van Rompuy even flag this as a possibility then? Surely he would have known? Another part of the script?
Basic negotiation tactics, throw impossible offer to the table for the counter parties. The proposal is basically all favor of Germany-France but they know it cannot possible fly as such. Plus few "this is the last chance" warnings. Then start haggling and maybe get still quite a good end result :)
UKIP Nigel Farage - Sky News -Dec 7, 2011
ah, for criminy, again Nigel Farage...
-1000 - I could only listen the first two minutes, all rubbish about Italy and Greece - this guy is full of ... half-truths.
A propagandist and a demagogue.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/12/parliamentary_committee_franco-german_proposal_unconstitutional_3089102.html?origin=rss
Tchir no longer bullish! Well, i never...
Look folks, "treaties" are never discussed unless war plans have already been made. Wake the fuck up sheeple.
The Eurozone and its glacial political processes is no match for the millisecond decisions of "The Market". But regardless if the ECB = USFed. All will be FUBAR as the markets shred all bonds, currencies, etc.
No matter what they are saying publicly, they must be wondering if default and a fresh start isn’t a better option than giving up more power to the EU.
This decision is at the heart of what TPTB care about in order of achiving their NWO. Evertyhing else is a side show to them.
Wake up! The NWO and one world government has been running things ever since the establishment of the Federal Reserve. This has only been made stronger by other creations such as the U.N. and the I.M.F.
If you are an American, you should know this as it has been American soldiers that have sacarficed the most to protect the interests of this banking cartel and the American taxpayers who continue to backstop the cartel's lifstyle and risky endeavors.
Yes, perfect solution. Act like our lawless Fed.
ECB Does Quantitative Easing, Eurozone Bonds Drop, Franco/German Proposal In Jeopardy
http://confoundedinterest.wordpress.com
Banker coup EuroBitchz!
The US during the 19th century made the same mistakes of Europe: allowing central banks to be created and thus cede control of the economy to a few.
Europe during the current crisis is making the same mistake of the US: consolidate the banking industry, bail out an insolvent system, and force everyone to participate so that the mutually assured destruction could be used as leverage in perpetuating the fraud.
History repeats itself to those who do not learn from it and unfortunately many more will suffer as a result that democracy and sovereignty is being traded for 'stability'.