This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Tungsten-Filled 1 Kilo Gold Bar Found In The UK
The last time a story of Tungsten-filled gold appeared on the scene was just two years ago, and involved a 500 gram bar of gold full of tungsten, at the W.C. Heraeus foundry, the world's largest metal refiner and fabricator. It also became known that said "gold" bar originated from an unnamed bank. It is now time to rekindle the Tungsten Spirits with a report from ABC Bullion of Australia, which provides photographic evidence of a new gold bar that has been drilled out and filled with tungsten rods, this time not in Germany but in an unnamed city in the UK, where it was intercepted by a scrap metals dealer, and was supplied with its original certificate. The reason the bar attracted attention is that it was 2 grams underweight. Upon cropping it was uncovered that about 30-40% of the bar weight was tungsten. So two documented incidents in two years: isolated? Or indication of the same phenomonenon of precious metal debasement that marked the declining phase of the Roman empire. Only then it was relatively public for anyone who cared to find out on their own. Now, with the bulk of popular physical gold held in top secret, private warehouses around the world, where it allegedly backs the balance sheets of the world's central banks, yet nobody can confirm its existence, nor audit the actual gold content, it is understandable why increasingly more are wondering: just how much gold is there? And alongside that - while gold, (or is it GLD?), can be rehypothecated, can one do the same with tungsten?
From ABC Bullion:
ABC Bullion received the following email from one of our trusted suppliers this week.
Note:
- It was not ABC Bullion that purchased this bar, the email and photos were sent to us as a general warning.
- I xxxx'ed out the city's name to avoid any second guessing as to the name of the dealer.
19/03/2012:
Attached are photographs of a legitimate Metalor 1000gm Au bar that has been drilled out and filled with Tungsten (W).
This bar was purchased by staff of a scrap dealer in xxxxx, UK yesterday. The bar appeared to be perfect other than the fact that it was 2gms underweight. It was checked by hand-held xrf and showed 99.98% Au. Being Tungsten, it would not be ferro-magnetic. The bar was supplied with the original certificate.
The owner of the business that purchased the bar only became suspicious when he realized the weight discrepancy and had the bar cropped. He estimates between 30-40% of the weight of the bar to be Tungsten.
This is very worrying and reinforces the lengths that people are willing to go to profit from the current high metal prices. Please be careful.
Photos of the cropped bars: 1000g Gold bar cut showing inserted tungsten rods
Two halves of the cropped bar:
Finally, some observations from Paul Mylchreest on debasement:
Let’s consider the run-up to Rome’s hyperinflation. I think this comment from jaysromanhistory.com “Good Money, Bad Money, and Runaway Inflation” resonates with what’s happening in the US today:
“Severus Alexander (AD 222-235) tried to reform by going back to the denarius but, once started, this path of runaway inflation and financial irresponsibility on the part of the imperial government proved impossible to control.”
It also seems that the hyperinflation was preceded by some kind of banking crisis, which is an interesting parallel. From “Demise and Fall of the Augustan Monetary System” by Koenraad Verboven:
“Papyri show it was common for private individuals to deposit money at a bank and to make and accept payments through bankers.Bankers in the west disappear from view around the middle of the 3rd c… A famous papyrus from Oxyrhynchus from 260 CE shows exchange bankers closing in order to avoid having to change the ‘imperial money’. The strategos ordered the exchange bankers to reopen and accept all genuine coins and warned businessmen to do the same. In 266 CE we find for the first time transactions being expressed in ‘ptolemaeic’ or ‘old silver’ as opposed to ‘new silver’.”
The chart shows how inflation remained relatively subdued until a tipping point was reached in the late- 260s A.D Monetary systems can absorb substantial abuse before there is a dramatic impact on the price level. For example, the debasement of the coinage was already accelerating in the early part of the third century A.D., before plunging in the latter part. Indeed, the chart below (apologies for the quality) only shows the trend up to 253 AD. By around 290 AD, the coins were only dipped in silver to give them a coating (<0.5%):
»
- 105002 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Difference is density is very slight 19.25 versus 19.32.
A good UT (ultrasonic) tech could find that shit in a heartbeat.
http://www.ge-mcs.com/en/ultrasound/portable-flaw-detectors/usm-35x.html
Time for the bullion dealers to step their game up.
Yep, a UTG would kick this stuff out in an instant. And whoever asked about silver, a UTG will do the same for silver, and coins too. You just need to know the specs (thickness and material) of the object in question, and a UTG will spot any issues.
UTGs are great for bars/coins, but terrible for jewelry since you can't get a good probe contact. I'd think selling gold-plated tunsten jewelry to low-level scrappers would be the way to go if you were in it for fraud.
they usually file at random links on the jewelry piece, so plating would not fool them.
time to watch "cash for gold" south park episode again.
The conductivity of gold is so high that eddy currents are the only good way to measure it. With a neodymium super-magnet and a lot of practice, an individual gold bug could probably learn to sense the difference by hand. Ultrasound would also work.
What about just a standard volumetric density calculation?
Since the density of tungsten and gold are almost identical, the "standard volumetric density" would also be identical and couldn't be used to distinguish them.
Remembering school I'd expect you to be able to just hear it. Build an isolation transformer using a genuine bar of gold, connect one end to a good set of headphones and blast something delicate (as opposed to Metallica or Queen) into the other end. I would expect you to spot the difference easily as soon as you swap the bar with some composite.
Just tried it with gold and lead. Lead sounded different (not necessarily better). Sorry, no Tungsten around - bulbs have been banned in the EC (that's why we've got tons of Tungsten nobody wants anymore 8-) ).
I thought eddy currents only form on the surface?
There is a skin depth associated with the frequency at which the eddy currents are being measured. Look up "skin depth." Lower frequencies penetrate deeper than do higher frequencies.
Ah...
Here is an applet for anyone curious.
http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResources/CommunityCollege/EddyCurrents/P...
At any rate, I doubt one is going to feel a defect by hand unless most of the gold is gone, since "most" of the magnetic field is generated closer to the surface. Your hand better be VERY trained to that sensitivity.
the experienced gold monger would know its value by bighting it.
Depending on the thickness of the gold layer eddy current testing might miss the tungsten rods. Typical eddy current instruments (like the SIGMATEST 2.069) are measuring a material thickness of less than 1 mm (45 MSiemens/m conductivity of gold at 60 kHz measuring frequency). So if that gold layer is thicker than 2 mm you'll be measuring that gold layer. But not the tungsten below.
Eddy current instruments are excellent tools in detecting gold plated stuff (20/1000 mm), fake coins or silver plated stuff. But they might miss a "gefillte fish" 1 kg gold bar.
For such thick gold bars you'll need an ultrasonic instrument like the PHASOR XS.
start cutting your gold bitchez...
Don't worry if you only have coins (sovereigns) and small (up to 250 gram) bars.
Balance them on your finger (coins) edge of desk (bars) and strike them with a high speed steel drill bit. say about 3mm, and if it say 'ding' in a bright, resonant and pleasant lasting way, it's the real stuff. Silver or gold.
'You can tell by the ting' ... as I like to say.
Instead of a drill bit you can also use another coin. Interestingly enough I just did this and tapped a clad quarter coin with the silver coin. The clad coin was a soft thud, nothing pretty sounding at all like a silver or gold coin. There's a reason those silver bells sound so beautiful! effin phony coins
Bars are of most concern due to their irregularity vs. coins. We have always thought the bars are an easier target for the criminal element, But then we saw this...
“It’s a very good fake”, said Haywood Cheung, president of the Chinese Gold and Silver Exchange Society, Hong Kong’s hundred year old gold exchange, highlighting how criminals are developing new techniques to commit an age-old fraud.
Though officially only 200 ounces of fake gold was recorded as traded, Cheung estimated that 10 times that amount might have infiltrated the retail market. Describing the swindle as ” one of the most sophisticated scams to hit Hong Kong gold market in decades”, the Financial Times said it has come when the price of gold has soared to record highs of $1,400 an ounce.
In one case, executives discovered a pure gold coating that masked a complex alloy with similar properties to gold. The fake gold included a significant amount of bullion — about 51 per cent of the total — alloyed with seven other metals: osmium, iridium, ruthenium, copper, nickel, iron, and rhodium." see the article here: http://wealthymatters.com/2011/01/20/chinese-gold/
This is a very sophisticated alloy. A criminal, with this kind of sophistication could massively forge coins as well as bars!
We only know of one technology that can catch this: http://assayintelligence.com/
question:
are there any laws against drilling into your own bar?
where can i buy tungsten rod?
does anyone wanna buy my gold?
i have an assortment of bits that would allow me to drill into the one oz bars easily
easy to seal such small holes
16th inch rod
ten holes along the side
no problem
This is why I stear clear of ANY bars..................
Gob issued, Eagles,Mapes,Krugs,Aussies,Phils..............the rest screw em.
He probably hasn't, but you never know. Also this is telling and we may one day in the near future see a whole bar of gold to be a gold plated tungsten bar.
With over 700 posts on this item I've no idea where to say this - and likely no-one will read it anyway. But ABC Bullion is my dealer of choice (yeah, OK; so I do a bit of bullion - but it's not a problem... I could give it up any time I want...)
I just checked a few 1oz bars, and on my non-calibrated, non-certified balance they all came in at 1.005ozt. Which shows one or more of the following is probably true:
(a) my balance is inaccurate but at least consistent in its inaccuracy
(b) the bars are consistently fake (and no, I'm not going to cut one in half to find out)
(c) the fakers are remarkably accurate in their faking
(d) I am consistently paranoid and shouldn't read ZH as much as I do (anyone know a good therapist?)
Laughing all the way at the Bernank!
GLD
GLD is even worse than tungsten-filled. It's nothing but worthless paper through and through.
Audit their "reserves" now, bitchez.
W-TF'd
Start breaking your gold, bitchez!!
Anyone surprised is a fool.
The only surprising thing is that someone capable of "drilling and filling" was stupid enough to think that the 2 gram weight shortfall would go unnoticed.
Fort Knox - World's Largest Tungsten Storage Facility
that's some great bathroom 'extended visit' reading material right there.
World's largest MT room.
Few years ago there was a campaign to sell florescent light bulb to combat green house. Now I know where all the Tungsten used to make incandescent bulbs is gone. Straight to FORT KNOX.
There is probably something to this theory.
yep.
it's probably true.
Yep, no doubt about it, theories are always accepted as fact until proven wrong.
It's a great marketing plan!!! ;-)
Don't forget those green eco-lights are also highly toxic.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if big pharma was the one behind the whole idea.
"yeah, yet another way to infest the sheeple with cancer!"
If an underweight bar is the tell-tale, this should be easy to detect.
That was just sloppy workmanship. You can see air space in the holes in the pictures. The discrepancy should have been a tenth of what it was.
"just how much gold is there?"
I was more wondering how safe my shit is to be honest
Wait a moment - do you mean we could have a "core" morality problem?
The jokes just will not stop until it all collapses...fare-the-well global economy...
so which event marks the era of moral decay ? I'm thinking presidential teen blow jobs on the seal of the U.S. carpet.
You win a cigar...but they can't find the wrapper ;-)
The wrapper was pledged to the ECB for some LTRO funding....
What do blow jobs have to do with moral decay? I don't see a connection.
Sometimes it's the little spark that will ignight the fire storm,
will this gold story be that spark or the following?
New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for 'capture' of George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - @orlandosentinelIf they play by Zimmerman's rules then anyone who feels threatened by the fact that Zimmerman is walking down a sidewalk can simply gun him down in cold blood and get off scott free.
Get caught up:
Oh crap, Trayvon was under school suspension? the photo of him was when he was 13? .. Now unfortunately another witnesses supporting Zimmerman (who unfortunately is not white)...This did not exactly fit the JJ, Sharpton victim boilerplate..
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimm...
So, a Hispanic man chases a black youth. The Hispanic thinks the kid is a thug and the Black youth thinks the Hispanic man is a gang banger and he needs to defend himself. I think they both profiled each other and the result was tragic. The one difference was that one guy had a gun.
Here is a current photo from Trayvon's Facebook...I must agree with the President- If he had a son, this IS what he would look like:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=264458616957200&set=a.26445838695...
and lets not for get the photo with his gang's name emblazoned on it:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=280296528706742&set=a.28029535870...
At least our President did not act stupidly by stirring up racial hatred before learning all the facts as in the Cambridge debacle. Now a beer summit must be held for him to recapture the latino vote. Scientists from a Blue Ribbon Panel will support Holder's contention that it was "Zimmerman's white side" that killed Trayvon. After the Riots, Obama will be awarded another Nobel prize for bring peace to America for disarming all citizens...
Despicable race baiters never cared about the facts and now that the media doesn't either we are headed straight to shit as a nation.
Zimmerman followed Martin simply because he thought he looked "suspicious." No mention has ever been made about any alleged criminal activity beyond the non-criminal act of walking while black.
Zimmerman profiled Martin, Martin simply defended himself with his fists when a stranger stalked him first by vehicle and then on foot.
People cannot be killed by fists?? Crockett, don't defend indefensible positions- stupidly.
Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details. Almost all news items are written solely from the point of view of the grieving family. The media also fills their articles with outdated baby-faced pictures of Trayvon. Very few include that he was a towering 6’2” football player. Is the media really reporting the news, or is this classic agitation/propaganda to advance a political agenda?
Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read “George ZImmerman, a white man,” or “shot by a white man.” Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is “mostly white.” This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.
All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.
The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners’ association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after thought this was important.
In fact the Miami Herald goes on to interview neighbor Ibrahim Rashada, who is black. Rashada ?confirms that there has been a lot of crime in the neighborhood and indicates to the reporter that the perpetrators are usually black.
The media also characterizes Trayvon as a “model student.” In fact, he was under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A lawyer for Trayvon’s family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.
Just who stood their ground?? Was it impossible for Trayvon to out run the 5-2 240 lb Zimmerman?? Yes there was stereotyping and the hoodie did not help. Even if he was insulted or felt blighted- it does not give Trayvon the right to pummel a neighborhood watchman.
Martin did nothing wrong. Zimmerman had no cause to stalk him by vehicle or on foot. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Aggressors can not claim self defense. A man who persues a victim and kills him can not claim to be standing his ground.
Why did Zimmerman follow Martin? Please provide an answer which would justify the killing of Martin.
Why did Zimmerman get out of his vehicle to further pursue Martin? Such is not the act of a frightened man.
Those who support Zimmerman's cold blooded murder of Martin are enemies of law abiding citizens who want to exercise a legitimate right to self defense. If the "stand your ground law" is to be interpreted in such a way as to protect Zimmerman's right to stalk and murder an unarmed person for no cause other than "suspicion" then that law will not remain on the books.
Those who support Zimmerman despite his obvious guilt play directly into the hands of those who would take our guns away. Why would you want to lose your own legitimate right to self defense just to protect a murderer? Is the idea of killing black kids such a thrill that you can't resist?
Wow, you are going to disallow all the facts and history surrounding this and make it an issue that white people be held accountable for. That is your point and it is what is destroying this nation. I put you in the catagory of most dangerous; those who cannot clearly rationalize information. Enjoy the Berkely weather; Davy Crockett would not be happy you are using his name.
What did the white race do wrong here?? Just answer me that?
There was a lot of crime and someone new is walking trough the private gated neighborHOOD late at night with a HOODIE; I believe Zimmerman had the right to ask his purpose for being there. If insulted by the question, the newcomer should maybe answer his purpose or just run away. Fighting can get you killed.
You might be a liberal if you believe that a boy who is being stalked by a strange man by vehicle and then on foot does not have a right to defend himself with his fists.
You might be a liberal if you don't understand that rule of law requires the punishment of murderers even if they killed someone who is of a race which you detest.
You, sir, are a flaming liberal.
PS -- My grand dad wore a hoodie. But you won't likely get a big thrill out of murdering him because he was white and he's been dead since 1992.
Sanford DA taken off Jewish Killer CaseOf course the Jewish controlled media are playing the race card...starting a big stink and they are fully aware of it. Racial tension? Nothing sells more papers and brings more TV viewers than that. Jews in general do not like blacks (a true fact) and love when then can blame the gentile (non jews) of being racist. Forget about the facts, those are swept under the rug, and our Chief idiot in Washington has nothing better to do than to get into an extrememly touchy case with his big whopping BS story how the guy could be his son. For this act alone the guy needs to be impeached.
Don't let the media play the race card. Stand up against the murderer Zimmerman regardless of your race and because you support the rule of law.
I support the rule of law.
But there is a large difference between a murderer and a killer. You've convicted him before an indictment, if there is one.
Do I think Zimmerman was out of line by following him after 911 siad you don't need to do that?...yes. Do I think the "gun control crowd" has swooped down on this as a way to restrict freedom?...yes. Do I think Zimmerman's potential defense behind "Stand Your Ground" is viable?...no.
He was following Trayvon. If anyone had a right to stand their ground it was Trayvon himself.
Now, did Trayvon attack Zimmerman for following him?..or did Zimmerman attempt a citizens arrest and for what?...that's what this inquiring mind needs to know.
One can only effect a citizen's arrest in the face of an ongoing felony. If Zimmerman had witnessed Martin commit a felony then he certainly would have told that to the 911 dispatcher instead of simply saying that Martin looked suspicious.
As far as my convicting Zimmerman, I'm simply stating an opinion. Somewhat forcefully, perhaps, but I can't help but see some of my own family members in the face of young Martin. In any case I don't believe that Florida will be getting its jury pool out of Pennsylvania so my opinion is not really an issue.
I understand the opinion...the way it looks (from all available information) it looks like he was bird dogging him.
But...there is an eye witness saying the two were fighting with Trayvon on top.
The witness should be deposed. As of right now he or she is the only one who saw more than what is being reported.
On the emotional side, I find it a tad specious that Trayvon's picture to the world is five years old. That is not him at the time of his death...sayin.
Let it work without emotion...a young man has been killed here and we don't know why yet and why one black youths death somehow counts more than the many that happen everyday elsewhere...there's something more than finding truth going on here.
I would like to see the results of voice analysis on the 911 tape in which the gunshot can be heard. If it is indeed Martin crying out for help then there is no question in my mind that Zimmerman is guilty of first degree murder. It's that tape that really chills me to the bone.
I would like to see the "stand your ground" law remain in effect. So I believe that it is important that it not be used to cover up a case of wanton murder as that will put the future of the law in jeopardy.
The Grand Jury will decide if there's enough to go forward and stand your ground does not mean chase people down, so I think his defense needs to prove Trayvon turned and attacked him or find another line of defense...the dispatcher warned him off tailing him.
lol..."stand your ground does not mean chase people down", I think I just gave the race hustlers a new rhyme to try out ;-)
My personal opinion is Zimmerman is an over zealous cop wannabe.
And we are probably gonna find out Trayvon isn't a saint either (though certainly not deserving of being shot for just walking down the street). He was on suspension from school and the family lawyer blocked school records release.
It could wind up manslaughter instead of murder with all the angst that entails.
Trayvon was suspended from school for being late too many times.
You and I know this is what the defense is going to do. It's all a very well choreographed routine by now.
Young man killed. Parents provide outdated picture to media of victim. Appropriate outrage is generated. White this, black that, southern this, small town that. Grand jury comes back with indictment. Both sides familiy names are dragged through the mud at trial. No one ends up satisfied with the verdict.
Meanwhile in Chicago...
http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/
It's hard not to be cynical Crockett, about the whole sordid thing, when Chicago just wracked up their 100th murder of the year and most of those were young black males as well.
No ones holding marches there. No Black Panther wanted posters. No Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson whipping the crowds into a froth demanding justice.
Just a very busy morgue...business as usual.
jews don't view any other humans as equals except for other jews.
Why can't you just let Charlton Heston's people go?
lol.
Don't ever call me a liberal; we both support Ron Paul so keep it civil. I am saying stereotypes happen. The hoddie killed none but those who committed so many crimes gave the baggy pants and hoodie a bad RAP. The white man did not create a stigma for these articles of clothing.
Now, just consider for one instant that maybe the boy had a problem with authority...maybe that is why he was not in school? Then consider that the man was protecting his neighborhood as he did in the past and asked a question to someone who has a problem with authority.
Just let me know if that is a possible scenario.
The most probable outcome is the current US administration labeling you as a (fire fucked) racist.
Your little story is just as plausible as a nigger-hatin' "watchman" starting trouble with Martin and executing him.
It doesn't carry any weight.
Martin's dad's girlfriend lives only feet from where the boy was killed. It's her neighborhood, too. Martin was her guest. When Martin used his fists to fight back against a strange man who had stalked him without cause and approached his host's home it was Martin who was defending the neighborhood.
If you believe that Martin was a fair target because maybe he had issues with authority then I question your support for Ron Paul. Any decent Paul supporter has problems with the kind of authority that assumes the right to shoot first and ask questions later.
What you present is not a possible scenario as Zimmerman had no right to stop Martin unless he saw him in the act of committing a felony. That did not happen. Zimmerman had no legitimate authority against which Martin could rebel. However, Martin had the right to defend himself and stand his ground.
But I'm sure that the irony is lost on you.
So......if a guard follows you and asks questions.....
You have the right to assault him?
That is your basic argument.
A guard? So now you're telling me that any group of people can label themselves as guards and stalk people at will? You are insane.
Martin was closer to his host's home than Zimmerman was to his own home. If anyone had a right to defend himself and his family it was Martin.
Are you familiar with the term "Neighborhood watch program"????
The guy kept an eye on the neighborhood. Hell people were glad to have him there!!! And yes, even blacks were happy about him.
http://www.floridatoday.com/viewart/20120322/NEWS01/303220051/Trayvon-Martin-s-death-begs-inquiry-Was-Zimmerman-guard-or-vigilante-?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE
And even if he wasn't a guard, do you have the right to assault any person that scares you??? If so, then I should go wild in downtown detroit at night when a black follows me!!!!
It's Zimmerman and you who are not aware of what the Neighborhood Watch is all about:
Zimmerman was not following Neighborhood Watch rulesSANFORD, Fla. -- Neighborhood Watch evokes scenes of get-to-know-you barbecues and folks keeping an eye on neighbors' homes while they're out of town or working late.
Until last month, it did not conjure images of teenagers being shot to death by the people who run a program designed to help keep communities safe.
Then George Zimmerman, who coordinated the Neighborhood Watch at a town-house community in Sanford, shot and killed unarmed Miami Gardens high-school student Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, sparking a collective rage that has spread nationwide and beyond.
Chris Tutko, director of Neighborhood Watch for the National Sheriffs' Association, said Zimmerman broke some cardinal rules.
First, he approached a stranger he suspected of wrongdoing.
"If you see something suspicious, you report it, you step aside and you let law enforcement do their job," Tutko said. "This guy went way beyond the call of duty. At the least, he's overzealous."
Second, Zimmerman carried a handgun. Police departments and sheriff's offices that train volunteers advise them never to carry weapons -- though Zimmerman broke no laws by doing so because he has a concealed-weapons permit.
"There's no reason to carry a gun," Tutko said.
Police said Zimmerman was running an errand in his SUV -- with his gun -- when he first spotted Trayvon walking back from 7-Eleven about 7:15 p.m. Zimmerman called police to report Trayvon as suspicious, and although a dispatcher said he didn't need to follow the teen, the two got into a scuffle.
Zimmerman shot Trayvon once in the chest with a 9 mm handgun, officers said. The 17-year-old died steps from the home of his father's fiancee, where he had been visiting.
http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/24/zimmerman-was-not-following-n...
Do you encourage members of your Neighborhood Watch to murder your guests? If so, please don't invite me for dinner.
my state trooper boyfriend agrees- this Zimmerman was WAY out of his element. lol @ someone comparing him to a guard
Moral of the Story: Stay the fuck away from Florida in specific, suburbs in general, and cities in toto.
Absolutely.
We don't need anymore crazies down here ;-)
Then maybe they should take the Republican National Convention elsewhere.
So, does that mean he is guilty???
Trayvon, being a 17 year old football player, would have had no problem running away.
However evidence shows that Zimmerman was being physically assaulted. What rights does Zimmerman have in the face of assault?
Ha, does a "guest" assault a man who is trying to protect the neighborhood???
Again, Does Trayvon have the right to assault someone who did not assault him?
Trayvon has no "stand your ground" right here either unless he was being assaulted.
Zimmerman has acted as a guard for the community for years. Does he suddenly need an "organizational recognition" to make him not guilty in your eyes?
Would this have been ok if Zimmerman was a police officer????
Zimmerman was not a "guard." Why do you keep lying about that? He disobeyed the 911 dispatchers and violated the rules of Neighbor Watch of which he was not even an official member.
There is no reason to believe that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Why do you assume that the boy who committed no crime and was being stalked by a gunman suddenly and for no reason turned into a felon who deserved death? Oh, because he's black, that's why.
It's people like you that keep Jackson ans Sharpton in business.
No evidence? Zimmerman had a bloody face and grass stains on the back of his shirt.
http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin
Defending oneself against an armed stalker is not a crime. Zimmerman has a police record for assault. Martin did not.
Defending oneself from what? A guy that is asking questions??? A guy that is walking away?
It isn't defense UNTIL you are attacked. And it appears that Trayvon was not attacked, but was the attacker.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch
It appears that Martin had a record of graffiti, marijuana use, even marijuana dealing.
Here is irony Crockett
http://patdollard.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-shooter-george-zimmerman-is...
George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life. Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide.
I find it hard to believe that the most compassionate and understanding man who ever lived shot a kid in cold blood who was begging for his life.
Zimmerman was prejudiced against Martin. He made the incorrect cursory judgement that an unarmed kid carrying a bag of candy was a suspicious criminal who needed to be confronted at gunpoint.
If he hadn't incorrectly prejudged Martin then some evidence of a crime by Martin would have turned up long before the police chief felt compelled to step down.
The article you linked to is complete fabrication. It says: "At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin." But we know from the 911 tapes that Zimmerman did follow Martin, first in his car and then on foot.
Here's the 911 call in which Zimmerman says, "Fucking coons." (1 minute 51 seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aVwPqXc-bk
You're wasting your time.
As unfortunate as it is, many so-called libertarians are really just successful and affluent bastards.
Part of this "crowd" happens to be a very good reason why "everyone" thinks Ron Paul's a racist.
What can ANYONE do about this shit?
Plenty of people pretty much suck, whether they're this color or that.
One can speak out loudly and objectively. I must say that I'm a bit shocked about the level of what is apparently race hatred here at ZH. It used to feel like home around here, but now, not so much.
Whoa whoa whoa!!!!
Where are you getting the information that Trayvon was begging for his life?????
It was the other way around.
/
The witnesses say Martin begged for his life. When the case comes to trial -- and it will -- voice analysis will prove that it was Martin crying out desperately for help. Only an idiot would believe the the killer with the gun was the one begging for his life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cWwUAbbWnk
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
And only an idiot would believe that a man with a bloody face, grass stains on the back of his shirt and blood on the back of his head had not been assaulted and was fighting for his life.
Dangertime
And only an idiot would believe that a man with a bloody face, grass stains on the back of his shirt and blood on the back of his head had not been assaulted and was fighting for his life.
Yep, and the Black Community(part of it),i.e. the usual suspects and more, believe everthing before the facts are out.
The man who shot the dude was whit and hispanic mix,w/black nuclear family relatives,so he HAS to be a racist.
The Panthers have a 10k Bounty for his murder.
Brother Martin is rolling in his grave.................this shit was so not like his message.
Reverse racism.
But an intelligent man knows that a dead, unarmed kid is guilty as hell. Now I get it.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch
We sure know he wasn't innocent, especially now that we know he assaulted Zimmerman. We also know that he was on suspension for graffiti and also a known drug dealer.
Again, the question you keep avoiding is....how do you suppose that Zimmerman got the grass stained back? The bloody face? The broken nose?
Crockett IMO you are a perfect example of how EVERYONE is letting their personal predispositions get in the way of disspassionately analyzing this case. The left saw an opportunity to play the race card to try and destract people from gas prices and unemployment. So they bring this up A MONTH after it happens and distort the HELL out of the facts. I swear prior to reading this I thought a biker with a natzi tatoo hunted down a 12 year old 80 lb kid in kakis and a polo. Turns out a hispanic guy killed a 6' 2" football player that was on suspension for gang banging Not that the guys size or gang affiliations means its ok he was killed. But it changes the narrative from what the media wants the story to be. The part that never made sense to me when I thought a big white biker had hunted down an executed a sweet little boy, is how this big ass dude carrying a double barreled dhotgun got a broken nose and bloodied head as he stalkef and shot this sweet little kid from Behind. Turns out what happened was a hispanic guy that lived in the neighborhood saw a big black dude in a hoodie that didnt live in the neighborhood. He followed him and then confronted him. He had no "right" todo it but honestly whats the harm if he had done it in a freindly and helpful manner. But he didnt. He probably said something stupid, insulting and maybe even hateful. The big gang banger got mad and a physical confrontation ensued. At this point you can probably get Zimmerman for assault. But the use of his firearm and ACCIDENTAL killing of the other person was done from on his back with a big dude punching him in the face. It was not premeditated, it was not murder, it was self defense. The point is he deserves to get hit with assault with a deadly weapon, public endangerment and being a douche bag. He deserves a couple years in jail, maybe as few as 2 with good behavoir and community service afterwards. But painting him as a racist murdering psychopath is unfair. And from the FACTS we have it appears the victim was innocent and certianly didnt deserve to die or even be assaulted. But hes not the innocent child he was portrayed as. He was a big, troubled, hot headed teen that was breaking a dudes nose when he was shot hm.
What evidence do you have that Martin was suspended for gang banging? A teacher is reported as saying he was suspended for being late to school too many times.
Shooting a kid who is begging for his life is not self defense. May God have mercy on your soul.
http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html
Evidence suggests that Trayvon was beating Zimmerman, as Zimmerman's face was bloody and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains.
However, no questions will be answered until we know who was "begging". Both sides seem to differ on this subject.
Evidence suggests that Martin is dead. But a grass stained shirt trumps mortal wounds in your world.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch
If you assault someone, expect to get shot. It's a pretty clear relationship.
Convenient how you like to keep everything out of context.
he had a phone did he call the police? or just go right to using his fists? If he was really stalking him he could have at least called 911 first let them know he was being stalked.
If someone is following you I dont think you really have a right to go beat them up. Or how long do they have to be following you? A dude followed me and was even a little close for my liking but he just happened to be going the same direction. Can I just start punching him? That seems a little ridiculous.
But Zimmerman admits he purposely followed Martin. So what was your point? Here's your chance to come up with even more bizarre excuses for the murder of a black kid. Enjoy!
Following and asking questions is not assault.
Throwing someone to the ground and pummeling them IS assault. HTF are you so blind to that?
So if you see someone suspicious on your property, and you follow them, they have the right to beat the shit out of you???
How do you know who initiated physical contact? We know that Zimmerman pursued Martin by car and then by foot. As Zimmerman consistently acted as the aggressor up to the point of physical contact it is likely that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact.
In any case how can you justify shooting a boy who is crying out for help? Do you really believe that this case does not deserve to be heard by a jury of Zimmerman's peers?
Who the hell is junking the suggestion of a fair trial?
People who despise rule of law and the rights of individuals to be secure in their persons and property.
hahahahahahahahah! They even junked:
"People who despise rule of law and the rights of individuals to be secure in their persons and property."
Heil junkler.
crazy right
Nigger-hatin' bastards.
"As Zimmerman consistently acted as the aggressor up to the point of physical contact it is likely that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact."
It does not make it more likely or less likely. Since we don't know the mental state of Martin, we can't make a judgement as to who initiated physical contact.
I do know that in my non-Florida state, block watch is trained to not make contact with suspicious individuals but to report what they see to the police.
We don't know and we won't know unless there is a trial. But it is reasonable to suggest that as Zimmerman initiated pursuit first in a vehicle and then on foot that he was the cause of the escalation from pursuit to confrontation as well. It would seem obvious that Zimmerman did not exit his vehicle in order to not confront Martin.
Zimmerman was told by 911 dispatchers not to follow Martin. His refusal to do so also indicates that he was in a predatory state of mind.
Zimmerman's known actions were acts of instigation. Martin's known actions were not. Any conjecture at this point can only be based on the character and state of mind of each individual as seen in the reported events.
Zimmerman was not following Neighborhood Watch 'rules'http://www.standard.net/stories/2012/03/24/zimmerman-was-not-following-n...
You keep repeating the same things over and over. It is tiresome.
It's not like Zimmerman is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read my posts, you know.
You are the one calling him guilty without a trial!!!!
And again, where are you getting the information that Trayvon was the one calling for help??
The witness says it was Zimmerman. Trayvon's father heard the 911 call and said it was not his son's voice calling for help.
Have you read any of the reports?
By chance crockett, are you black?
lol, racists always think that the people who disagree with them MUST be black.
Fucking Christ.
I'm a racist for asking if he was black?
Tmosley, you are so fvking dumb even outside of buying $50/ounce silver.
From what I read, I don't see how Zimmerman was racist, and I'm defending that point of view from a lynch mob.
But hey, asking questions and doubting the majority must make me a racist.
So you believe that trial by a jury of one's peers constitutes a lynch mob? How wonderful to see that you hate the rule of law as much as you hate black people.
Nice straw men there.
No, I am against a black panther mob calling for a $10,000 reward dead or alive.
I am against public mobs crying about his guilt without seeing the evidence. Let's have a trial before dipshits like you and the rest of the mobs declare him guilty.
There is mass outrage because Zimmerman has not been charged and there will be no trial until after he is charged.
The police and the DA believed they didn't have the evidence to prosecute. The evidence pointed towards Zimmerman's story being accurate.
That is why there was no arrest and trial. But hey, I'm not against a trial at all. Let the evidence all come to light and we'll see what plays out.
Starting with identifying the voice crying for help on the 911 recording.
Glad I could convince you that enough evidence of a crime exists for Zimmerman to be charged and tried.
There was no convincing. I don't have the information but it sure looks worse and worse for Trayvon.....
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch
My picture is on my blog. You'll see that I'm white and I'm armed.
Just keep lying you son of a bitch:
Trayvon Martin’s Father “Positive” Crying Voice on 911 Tapes is Son’shttp://24wired.tv/34308/trayvon-martins-father-positive-crying-voice-on-...
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html
Who exactly is the liar here dipshit????
And why are sites using a "lightened" touched-up version of Trayvon's face?
The original looks a bit more menacing, doesn't it. Feel manipulated yet?
You have a link, I have a link. Guess we will have to wait to see which one is accurate.
Wait for what? You oppose the effort to bring Zimmerman to trial. That's all anyone is asking.
I don't oppose a trial. I oppose a witch hunt.
There is no witch hunt.
There is a witch hunt. Courtesy of shoddy reporting, a stupid racist president, Sharpton, Jackson, a racist new black panther party and a refusal of people to apply critical thinking.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch
I've been reading the arguments of both sides. It seems to me that you are both right as well as Martin and Zimmerman were also both right.
We are all victims of the perpetuation of racial hatred from both sides of the political spectrum for the reasons that we all know and this is indisputable.
These types of events, instead of bringing us together are dividing us even more. I would not want to be the judge handling this case.
Budhism (the only pacifist religion) aspires to what I ascerted above. One student asked: Oh wise one, how is it possible for both sides to be right? One of them must be wrong. And the wise one said: "You are also right."
Perception, prejudice, background, education, breading and experiences makes us all be right in our own minds.
For the record. I am not a budhist.
Wasn't this old Charlie Mansons plan originallY?
I want to junk you for "Buddhism - the only pacifist religion," because it's neither an accurate portrayal of Buddhism, nor of other religions, but I agree with the substance of your post.
Enjoy what nutzoid. I wasn't excusing anyone and I haven't said it was or wasn't murder. I asked a simple question, why didn't he call the police?
I realize that cases like this require evidence and that evidence can be nuanced and difficult to interpret that is one of the main reasons we have a jury system and judges. I try not to jump to conclusions.
BTW your prejudicial nature is the epitome of irony.
Ah, so you agree that Zimmerman should stand trial. Good for you.
Too bad the police didn't bother to collect any evidence at the scene.
If a dude was following me I would feel threatened, "stand my ground" and shoot the fuck out of him; or at least throw my candy at him and run away.
Why wait 'til he's followin ya?
Shit, if a dude is on the same sidewalk as me, I can feel threatened and justifiably blow his ass away.
(As long as I've got cop friends.)
When your father is a judge you can basically do this.
>>There was a lot of crime and someone new is walking trough the private gated neighborHOOD late at night with a HOODIE; I believe Zimmerman had the right to ask his purpose for being there. If insulted by the question
Umm, what about feeling threatened by someone of questionable mental stability? B. I don't believe Z. did. I would not accept that on a public street from anyone except a uniformed cop.
>>Fighting can get you killed.
And Florida has capital punishment for the murderer who attacked you.
Sooooo, whenever I walk in downtown detroit and a black guy starts following me. If I feel threatened then I have the right to beat the everliving shit out of him....right?
Are you suggesting that you do not have a right to defend yourself? If you do find that you are being pursued by a stranger for no legitimate reason do you intend to roll over? I might expect as much from someone who is cowardly enough to defend a man who murders innocent people based on their garments.
Are you suggesting that a a man who sees a boy doing nothing more than walking down a street has a right to defend himself against that threat with a gun but a boy who is being stalked by a man in a car who exits his vehicle and continues the pursuit on foot has no right to defend himself with his fists?
Please explain why Zimmerman has a right to stand his ground by using a gun against an unarmed teen but Martin had no right to defend himself against a strange man who was stalking him for no apparent reason.
Of course you have a right to defend yourself.
But what you are saying is that Trayvon has the right to defend himself by assaulting Zimmerman (when Zimmerman didn't attack him)....
Yet Zimmerman does not have the same right to defend himself to a physical assault.
In short, you say it's ok to resort to attacking someone if you feel threatened.....but it is NOT ok to use a gun if you are actually being assaulted.
WTF kind of ass backward thinking is that????
Martin did not assault Zimmerman. Zimmerman stalked Martin and shot him down. If you enjoying seeing black kids murdered why not just admit it, you lousy coward? Stop hiding behind a twisted interpretation of the law which in reality you despise.
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2012/03/why-was-trayvon-martin-photo-altered.html
This link seems to think differently than you.
I'm not hiding behind anything, but you sure seem angry enough to ignore that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman and instead call me names.
Again, why do you suppose Trayvon's photo was altered to make him look more innocent? Feel manipulated yet?
You're such an insane racist that you believe that lightening a photo of a murdered black kid makes him look more innocent. Why do you equate skin color with innocence?
The real question is, why did the media feel the need to lighten the photo???
You should be asking them. And you honestly say think that both photo's look equal in terms of menace or lack thereof?
Who do you think you're fooling???
Low resolution photos are usually cleaned up before publication. But I understand that at this point you're only trying to fool yourself.
Bull$hit. It was touched up as well, not just lightened.
And of course, all the photos shown are four years old. And don't forget that they conveniently skip the gold teeth.
Also don't forget that he was suspended from school for graffiti. Oh, and don't forget that he was a drug dealer.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-civil-rights-punch
What the hell does this have to do with tungsten jackasses?
I've heard of the golden calf but tungsten jackasses are a new one on me.
aw fuck it. who is that in your avatar?