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Tungsten-Filled 1 Kilo Gold Bar Found In The UK

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The last time a story of Tungsten-filled gold appeared on the scene was just two years ago, and involved a 500  gram bar of gold full of tungsten, at the W.C. Heraeus foundry, the world's largest metal refiner and fabricator. It also became known that said "gold" bar originated from an unnamed bank. It is now time to rekindle the Tungsten Spirits with a report from ABC Bullion of Australia, which provides photographic evidence of a new gold bar that has been drilled out and filled with tungsten rods, this time not in Germany but in an unnamed city in the UK, where it was intercepted by a scrap metals dealer, and was supplied with its original certificate. The reason the bar attracted attention is that it was 2 grams underweight. Upon cropping it was uncovered that about 30-40% of the bar weight was tungsten. So two documented incidents in two years: isolated? Or indication of the same phenomonenon of precious metal debasement that marked the declining phase of the Roman empire. Only then it was relatively public for anyone who cared to find out on their own. Now, with the bulk of popular physical gold held in top secret, private warehouses around the world, where it allegedly backs the balance sheets of the world's central banks, yet nobody can confirm its existence, nor audit the actual gold content, it is understandable why increasingly more are wondering: just how much gold is there? And alongside that - while gold, (or is it GLD?), can be rehypothecated, can one do the same with tungsten?

From ABC Bullion:

ABC Bullion received the following email from one of our trusted suppliers this week.

 

Note:

  • It was not ABC Bullion that purchased this bar, the email and photos were sent to us as a general warning.
  • I xxxx'ed out the city's name to avoid any second guessing as to the name of the dealer.

 

19/03/2012:

 

Attached are photographs of a legitimate Metalor 1000gm Au bar that has been drilled out and filled with Tungsten (W).

 

This bar was purchased by staff of a scrap dealer in xxxxx, UK yesterday. The bar appeared to be perfect other than the fact that it was 2gms underweight. It was checked by hand-held xrf and showed 99.98% Au. Being Tungsten, it would not be ferro-magnetic. The bar was supplied with the original certificate.

 

The owner of the business that purchased the bar only became suspicious when he realized the weight discrepancy and had the bar cropped. He estimates between 30-40% of the weight of the bar to be Tungsten.

 

This is very worrying and reinforces the lengths that people are willing to go to profit from the current high metal prices. Please be careful.

Photos of the cropped bars: 1000g Gold bar cut showing inserted tungsten rods

Two halves of the cropped bar:

Finally, some observations from Paul Mylchreest on debasement:

Let’s consider the run-up to Rome’s hyperinflation. I think this comment from jaysromanhistory.com “Good Money, Bad Money, and Runaway Inflation” resonates with what’s happening in the US today:

 

“Severus Alexander (AD 222-235) tried to reform by going back to the denarius but, once started, this path of runaway inflation and financial irresponsibility on the part of the imperial government proved impossible to control.”

 

It also seems that the hyperinflation was preceded by some kind of banking crisis, which is an interesting parallel. From “Demise and Fall of the Augustan Monetary System” by Koenraad Verboven:

 

“Papyri show it was common for private individuals to deposit money at a bank and to make and accept payments through bankers.Bankers in the west disappear from view around the middle of the 3rd c… A famous papyrus from Oxyrhynchus from 260 CE shows exchange bankers closing in order to avoid having to change the ‘imperial money’. The strategos ordered the exchange bankers to reopen and accept all genuine coins and warned businessmen to do the same. In 266 CE we find for the first time transactions being expressed in ‘ptolemaeic’ or ‘old silver’ as opposed to ‘new silver’.”

 

The chart shows how inflation remained relatively subdued until a tipping point was reached in the late- 260s A.D Monetary systems can absorb substantial abuse before there is a dramatic impact on the price level. For example, the debasement of the coinage was already accelerating in the early part of the third century A.D., before plunging in the latter part. Indeed, the chart below (apologies for the quality) only shows the trend up to 253 AD. By around 290 AD, the coins were only dipped in silver to give them a coating (<0.5%):

 

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Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:17 | 2287464 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Cockroach theory suggests there might be a 'few more' yet to be discovered. (sarc)

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:18 | 2287469 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I want some " Tungsten fibre vests" , when those LTRO payments come due in 2015!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:22 | 2287477 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Show me a 400oz bar from FT. Knox and I'll get a woodie,,until then pass the gravey..

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:26 | 2287492 mendolover
mendolover's picture

‘ptolemaeic’  That's a cool word.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:32 | 2287504 non_anon
non_anon's picture

I'd say the criminal element has captured central banks/banks/corporations/governments and steal any way they can. Fuck the rest of us!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:49 | 2287536 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

QUITTER!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:35 | 2287510 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

terrifying! but my sole purchase was 1 oz Maples back when it was <$1000/oz so hopefully I'm ok

 

I did get some fake silver:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kekekekekekeke/6351063937/

My boyfriend bought them for me at a gun show and he said the guy he bought them from "didn't know" if they were real silver or not :S  poor guy, I think he paid $40 or so per coin.  BUT I was happy that he showed some interest in stacking because he usually just regards it as kooky and silly

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:45 | 2287528 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

SO how did the person drill & re-seal? Re-cast a new bar with all the right numbers from the old bar's gold & the tungsten in the middle? Electroplating? I question how legit the surface of the gold looked in addition to the 2g underweight before it was cropped....

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:52 | 2287544 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Exactly! The( tungsten), rods were layed during the smelting process!  Imagine the gold loss during the drilling process?

  You are on the SMART PAGE!!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:29 | 2287614 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

No idea, but I assume he covered Tungsten with molten gold and polished that side after the fact. Why not? For such a good margin it pays to do a quality job.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:53 | 2287943 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I dented up one of my gold bars. I took it to a jeweler to see if he could use his own 9999 fine gold to repair the little dents.

He said he couldn't do it because there was no way to get the pressure right.

Now that says something to me. I had dented it with my thumb nail since I really liked the "ping" but in the end physics wins - soft gold dents & I knew better.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:55 | 2287551 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

So where's the smiling face of a guy buying a brand new Aston Martin with 10 ounces then? "always with the negative vibes! Always with the negative vibes!"

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:10 | 2287585 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Good point D/A/V. Perhaps the Sub-Whoofer magnets are made from ( XAU)?   Gold is conductive?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:55 | 2287553 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

 

 

Let’s put this gold issue into another example.  

I have a pet rock. Everyone wants my pet rock. I decide to ETF this pet rock & create a revenue stream. All is good, until everyone wants to cash in on the pet rock. Everyone’s horror is finally discovered, my pet rock was merely a spec of sand. At the end of the day, you have been conned by another Ponzi Scam.

 

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:56 | 2287555 jomama
jomama's picture

they're like cockroaches, when you find one...

maybe this is why ben shalom said last week that there isn't enough gold on the planet for a gold standard?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:00 | 2287561 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Just a little surprised that  they took so much work and effort on

a 1 kilo bar.

This is some serious engineering work , but ideal for mass production once

you find the best method.

The gold is so soft it screws up drill bits.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:00 | 2287564 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this is kindaOT but hopefully of humorous interest:

Lawyers Guild Expects More Documents Evidence Homeland Security Coordinated Occupy Crackdown by DAVE LINDORFF

If you want to know where the real government of the United States is located, just check out one of the documents received by the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund in response to their Freedom of Information Act request to the Dept. of Homeland Security relating to surveillance of the Occupy Movement. That document, from the Secret Service, dated September 17, 2011, the day the Occupy movement began on Wall Street, from the US Secret Service Intelligence Division, titled Prism Demonstrations Abstract, list the location as “Wall Street Bull” — a reference to the bronze statue of a bull on Wall Street in front of the New York Stock Exchange, and the “protectee” as “The United States Government.”

As the National Lawyers Guild comments dryly, “American taxpayers might find it odd to learn that the Secret Service was on duty to protect the Wall Street Bull in the name of protecting the U.S. Government. But there it is.”

heeere's linkY!
Evidence Homeland Security Coordinated Occupy Crackdown

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:05 | 2287574 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 That deserves a " Green Arrow". Us Aussies are noon time!  OOps. A day Ahead. Symantics?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:43 | 2287793 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Protecting Wall Street Bull is the job description...

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:03 | 2287568 jomama
jomama's picture

luckily for me, i had my stash assayed by an XRF gun at the friendly people down at pacific precious metals.  

unfortunately, i lost it all in a boating accident last year =/

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:11 | 2287589 nasdaq99
nasdaq99's picture

The Coinage Act of 1792 spells out DEATH for debasement.  Alexander Hamilton knew what debasement was.  See Section 19:

Section 19. And be it further enacted, That basing the coins. if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as to the proportion of the fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same out to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intent, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offenses, shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall suffer death.
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/coinage1792.txt

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:16 | 2287841 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

This is exactly why our short-term fate as a nation is sealed. Somehow, the death sentence for even slightly debasing the money supply, has been reinterpreted by our court system to mean that the Liberty Coin guy goes to jail for making real silver coins that a moron "might" misconstrue for being similar in appearance to the totally debased fiat money issued by the government. Peverse, wicked judicial system indeed. "Woe to those who call white black, and black white."

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:37 | 2287929 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

And thanks to Mr. Burr, Alex suffered death.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 16:21 | 2288940 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

Too bad this wasn't cited in 1964.  We'd have a lot fewer mint employees.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:12 | 2287594 non_anon
non_anon's picture

I guess it's time to get some gov loan and go exploring for sunken Spanish treasure

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:30 | 2287617 Money 4 Nothing
Money 4 Nothing's picture

Get the loan, and I got the Boat!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:51 | 2287643 non_anon
non_anon's picture

uh, perhaps a student loan

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 11:31 | 2288342 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Why dig it up (raise it) if it's just going to get re-buried (sunk)?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:16 | 2287603 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

That’s why Microsoft bought VeriChip. And why ObamaCare is so vital in raping our constitutional law.

 

http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/view/4477

 

A cashless society wouldn’t need gold. This of course, is the opinion of Central Planners.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:27 | 2287708 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

Making all medical records digital serves only one purpose:

 

To allow them to be aggregated in central databases, data mined, and added to individual's profiles.

 

The laws and propaganda surrounding the laws say the electronic medical records are for "security."  But anyone that knows anything about information security knows that digital data is infinitely less secure than ink on dead trees.

 

Before there might be a paper file in some drawer somewhere with your embarrassing medical information on it.  One copy, accessible to, at most, a few dozen humans.  And maybe one doctor and nurse who knew the details, having provided the service.

 

With eletronic records your medical information will be accessible world wide to tens of thousands of individuals or more.  And aside from the fact that the government will access it at will, it might get hacked or leaked and following the digital trail will be far tougher than the paper one.

 

Just more data for the central planners to use to profile us.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 13:21 | 2288600 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Plus it will allow them to either admit or deny the patient (dna) to the registered server (patented patient dna) for service or upgrades.

And everyone thought Windows was notorious for viruses...just wait.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:34 | 2287622 toadold
toadold's picture

So far on the Silver Eagle/Waling Liberty coinsthe only thing I've heard off locally is people trying to pass off circulated coins as uncirculated, proof, and mints after they buffed them up and repackaged them in packaging with certs that they bought off of eBay.  

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:37 | 2287626 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm no Prodigy! 

                           When the Chairman of 'The Federal Reserve', tries to [QUANTIFY] , gold/ XAG reserves to the " Children", It's time to run !

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:51 | 2287646 tears of the moon
tears of the moon's picture

Thanks for publishing my post. Whilst we all would like to draw links (myself included) to grand schemes of high finance I suspect the bar in question was the product of a criminal gang. They most likely bought a real bar with certificate, clamped it in a drill press, drilled out 5 holes and pushed in tungsten rods. The hardest part would have been convincingly resealing the drilled end with melted gold from the drill holes. Whilst I suspect this was not a once off it would certainly be rare. As most gold bought back by dealers (and all bought by scrap dealers) ends up getting re-refined or sold to manufacturing jewelers, if there was a large number of such bars dealers such as us would be hearing about it on a regular basis as the bars were melted down.

Greg Hudson
ABC Bullion
www.abcbullion.com.au

blog: www.gold88.us

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:21 | 2287701 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Page saved Mate! Thanks

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 15:20 | 2288805 Hulk
Hulk's picture

The tungsten filled bar was probably due to a divorce...

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 21:57 | 2287659 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Who sells a gold bar to a scrap metal dealer!!!

Someone who knows they're selling shit I would guess.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:04 | 2287668 luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

Due diligence...America has become the land of cheap and fake!

 

Get the CRIMINALS...Right? 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:23 | 2287851 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You've got the vibe, but it's not really quite like that..."America has become the land where the cheap and fake reap all the rewards."

There's still plenty of shit here that's "real and worth it." 

But sadly we don't pay much attention to that stuff.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:06 | 2287674 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

LOL.  Tungsten 25 bucks an ounce. The new gold.  Have a blast with your scrap shit filled nuggets Europe.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:15 | 2287684 squexx
squexx's picture

Why would anyone trust gold?!? I'm all in for REAL fiat, man!

 

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:20 | 2287698 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

I'm long U.S. dollars at the moment.

 

I wish I were kidding.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:19 | 2287694 Marc_W
Marc_W's picture

Having 50+ little 1 ounce bars seems a little silly when one can buy a single 32 ounce bar.

 

What are you gonna do with the 1 oz bars?  Keister them and sneak into Canada?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:28 | 2287709 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

You can glue them together into the form of a house or whatever, paint it whatever colors you want, and put it on a shelf.

No one is the wiser, and it's cheaper than a safe....

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:57 | 2287741 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Very crafty.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 05:30 | 2288060 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Don't forget to sniff the glue.  This'll be a bad summer to quit.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:03 | 2287894 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

I always thought it would be cool to build a garden shed out of 10 kg. bars.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:59 | 2288290 bonderøven-farm ass
Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:20 | 2287695 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Cracks me up .... Where's the guy who was screaming at me when I exclaimed there's no differance between a peice of paper or piece of metal. What was that he said ... "Gold can't be manipulated" - HA !!!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:59 | 2287745 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

You were right. There is no difference between a piece of paper and a piece of metal. Likewise there is no difference between a doodlebug and the Queen Mary.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:08 | 2287749 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

One down vote for you, Alpo-breath. There is a large difference between counterfeiting a tangible item you hold in your hand, and hitting 'control-P' on the Fed computer.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:20 | 2287697 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I have a question for my esteemed fellow bloggers.......if "gold is not money" according to the Bernank, then why do central banks hoard it??

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:26 | 2287705 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Ask Ron Paul.  But just as a correction...Central Banks are hoarding Gold 'reciepts', not the metal.   

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:46 | 2287729 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

The standard answer is: Tradition.  AKA, No Idea.

Fun Fact: The Treaty of Versailles mandated that German reparation payments be in gold, and any other assets that were turned over to the Allies were valued in terms of gold by a very serious committee.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:53 | 2287736 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Central banks hoard gold because they are Cretans, and all Cretans are liars.

From Wikipedia: "Thomas Fowler (1869) states the paradox as follows: "Epimenides the Cretan says, 'that all the Cretans are liars,' but Epimenides is himself a Cretan; therefore he is himself a liar. But if he be a liar, what he says is untrue, and consequently the Cretans are veracious; but Epimenides is a Cretan, and therefore what he says is true; hence the Cretans are liars, Epimenides is himself a liar, and what he says is untrue. Thus we may go on alternately proving that Epimenides and the Cretans are truthful and untruthful."[1] However, the paradox can actually be resolved if there is at least one Cretan who is not a liar."

Do you think there are any Fed governors who are not liars?

OK, I'll cut to the chase: they hoard gold because they know it is, has been, and always will be the best form of money and wealth preservation the world has ever known. Period. End of story. Don't watch what they say, watch what they do.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:55 | 2287887 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Nah.  It's because it's shiny and they can crow about it.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:44 | 2287938 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It makes great ballast for their sailboats.  And it isn't even (necessarily) radioactive.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 13:24 | 2288602 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

I once had a professor of economics who was a former fed reserve board governor. At the time my family was buying patented mining claims in Nevada and California, as investments, and I aksed him a question that always puzzled me; how did the gold and silver used for coinage in the usa get onto the government's books and how was it paid for when first acquired, since it was not mined by the government. He could not answer me; he said it was a good question and he would seek and answer and let me know.

 

Never heard anything more about it from him.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 18:23 | 2289164 prole
prole's picture

Primero you have pirates and colonists they use Spanish coins Dutch coins German.. these "Dollars" circulate in the Americas for hundreds of years before "US .gov" takes over so to speak. Mostly Silver... I am guessing here gold also for the big money players.

US Mint doesn't need any gold of "its own" to "mint" coins, it's not like they would give it away anyway. They fullfil the roll of a national mint (then, not now) to say "coinage" .. Some gold prospector brings in his bag of gold, mint "mints" the gold onto coins and prospector goes on his way with pocket full of gold (coins)

Actually I'm lost from this point, but I guess taxes bring the gold back to the .gov, combined with fraudulent 'gold standard' which is designed to trick the gold out of the people's hands into the (whoever the fvck stole the 1933 gold) hands, and give the sheeples a bunch of paper for it.

'm sure i am wrong about most of this, but it deserves serious study by those smarter than I, for example, people who know how to not accidently hit "I"

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:35 | 2288016 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) tripped up Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke during a hearing Wednesday when he asked why central banks hold stockades of gold and diamonds.

Bernanke initially tried to explain that many people invest in gold futures because it can help hedge risks in other markets and acts as a more stable store of value than some currencies — but Paul, a longtime critic of the central bank and fiat currency in general, cut him off.

“Do you think gold is money?” the Texas congressman asked.

“No, it’s a precious metal,” Bernanke replied.

“Even if it’s money for over 6,000 years? Somebody reversed that and eliminated that economic law?” Paul pressed.

“Well, it’s an asset,” the Fed chairman answered. “Would you say Treasury bills are money? I don’t think that they’re money either, but they’re financial assets.”

“Why do central banks hold it, if it’s not money?” Paul asked. “Why do they hold diamonds?”

“Well, it’s tradition,” Bernanke answered. “Long term tradition.”

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:40 | 2287719 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

It's tough to tell if the holes were over-drilled and then filled with Au, or if they were drilled to size and the W was installed using a press fit. If they over-drilled it would make sense that the bar was slightly underweight, since molten gold will not readily flow around the tungsten and would most likely create voids. The first image shows that the tungsten rod on the right has an obvious void, although given the hardness of tungsten, the void could have partly been caused by the shear. You can see all the tungsten rods failed catastrophically, and I bet it made one heck of a bang when it was sheared.

It would be nice if the bar was sawed with a diamond saw to better see the internal structure. Also, I'm surprised they didn't take pictures of the ends, since this is where the drilling/refilling had to have taken place. Here I'm assuming they were drilled, although the bar could have been milled from the back using a hemispherical end mill, the tungsten rods dropped in place, and the whole thing covered with molten Au, followed by polishing. Actually, this seems much easier and less prone to difficulties. I'd love to see this bar under a microscope to look for seams in grain boundaries that might suggest different melts.

I see that relatively pure (99.95%) tungsten rod is readily available in 1/4", for all you would-be counterfeiters. 3 feet of 1/4" rod for only $130.00 on E-bay.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:47 | 2287940 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Wow -- you really are a geek.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 04:00 | 2288034 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Yea. Guilty.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:30 | 2288008 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

Any idea why a Bruker hand held XRF would not detect the tungsten?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 04:05 | 2288039 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

It's a surface detection method. Ultrasound can "see" inside the bars and is probably the best bet for folks who can afford 1kg Au bars.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:50 | 2288110 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

if the bar was a tungsten gold alloy with gold coating would ultrasound catch it?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:21 | 2288460 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

ultrasound would only reveal physical anomalies like rods within the phsyical structure.

An alloy would reveal itself by the variance in weight or size caused by the different atomic weights of the elements involved.

Gas chromatography of a drilled sample would be the "gold standard" for verifying true gold content.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 13:14 | 2288590 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

sorry to ask one more question:

 

The bar with rods was easily detected by its density being off by 2 grams for the given volume. if the bar was debased by an alloy rather than drilled rods, the result would still be the same. Easily detected.

 

i realize the difference in atomic weight between gold and tungsten is not much, but amplified over a one kilo bar its a lot, and easy to catch.

 

Or am I missing something here?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 18:25 | 2289169 prole
prole's picture

Another poster mentioned that if you mix the Tungsten 97% with I already forgot (Plat?) 3% that miniscule weight difference disappears entirely.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 13:09 | 2288578 foxenburg
foxenburg's picture

If the tungsten rods were un-sintered, they'd be friable, like chalk. Which is what the photo looks like.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 16:43 | 2288988 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Nice find with the identical rods on ebay! You can even specify lengths to seller and they customize, convenient for whatever size bar you want to wolframe, lol. Three rods sold recently, 9 feet.

 

Your theory sounds plausible. Just curious about how milling would be easier than drilling? Is it that it would be difficult to get the drill width right and to fit the rods precisely?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:47 | 2287730 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Earth to 777? Does 777 still exist?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:18 | 2287759 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 PROPER CONTEXT!  That Fat Finger could feed a Herd of " ticker tapers"!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:26 | 2287771 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

That was an interesting footnote on the debasement of the currency in the late Roman empire. I have written a brief article detailing other parallels between now and the crisis of the third century. What is of particular interest is how things played out as a result of all this:

http://pearlsforswine.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/the-crisis-of-the-third-c...

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:26 | 2287772 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Turd? Forward the story! I'll read it! Good on ya!

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:40 | 2287788 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

No doubt a forgery from China, the best forgers on the planet.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:48 | 2287800 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Slow Motion, ? Any thoughts?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:57 | 2287808 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Who was that " cash on the barrel head" Person?  sp/ one (l)?

  Baltic Dry IS running DRY! The Ships are purchased, and the  miners are " Land Locked"

         China GDP will be in the mid ^' 6's

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:05 | 2287821 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Thnaks Tyler.  dog/god

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:20 | 2287848 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

The timing on this is impeccable. Just think about this week with the VIX, BATS and AAPL.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:27 | 2287853 Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

For the novice worried about fake gold bars they might go with coins,seems to be less lucrative to forge.

No gold here today just a bag of maples.Yea I know, its got lizard woman on them.Ridges and unclipped lol

Edit; Actually they were bought yesterday ,did not realize it is this late.

 Good night,Cheers to all

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:55 | 2287879 deflator
deflator's picture

Corruption is a subject that only gets skirted around the edges even here at ZH. Only the righteous see corruption as it is in day to day dealings and walking around sense. ZH typically only looks at corruption in the top down financial sector--I see it everywhere from fast food restaurants that sell stale bread and deep fried products in rancid burnt oil to cover up stealing to other day to day petty thefts. Corruption is systemically rampant and I seriously doubt the Bernank has factored that in to his arrogant central planning model.

 Once a threshold of corruption is reached there will be a tipping point into hyperinflation. We all can't be gangsters, the majority(including minorities) needs to be honest and hardworking. It takes 2-3% growth yoy just to support compound interest--how much do you suppose needs to be factored in for corruption? 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:54 | 2287888 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Y10's

                   Long live Z/H

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:59 | 2287890 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Slewie? Why do you waste your time?

  Slestacks   ( http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sleestak

 

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:23 | 2287908 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

some observations:

What better way to discourage investment in pysical gold than these kind of period leaked images of fake bars?

drilled out bars are relatively easy to detect if inspected before purchase

drilling out a bar would be relatively labor intensive so you would not expect to see this on a large scale.

the percent of gold replaced with tungsten is small relative to the total amount of gold contained in the bar

coins and smaller bars, like the 152g ingot bars (10 baht bars) we have here in Thailand are much less likely targets of tampering because of their smaller size.

My conclusion: the chances of getting a fake bar are small if know your dealer, but buy coins not 1 kg bars if you want to be sure.

 

Comments?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:06 | 2287992 diffusing
diffusing's picture

@laosuwan any suggestion for a reputable dealer in Thailand?  Some of the 10 baht bars look really cool..  and some of the smaller donuuts/boats etc quite unique..  but being farang in thailand, im skeptical of buying pretty much anythying here..    thoughts?

 

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:53 | 2288109 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

you can go directly to the assay office in Bangkok and buy there or at any of the gold shops. prices are fixed and posted daily. there are about ten different gold dealers supplying the bars obtained via the assay office. its all pretty well regulated and based on trust. the bars are all 96%. eventually you will find the dealer you like best, their stamps will be on the bars. i have never heard of anyone ever being cheated because the consquences would be too great if a shop did that. these are all chinese dealers and customers, afterall. the thais buy the necklesses, not the bars. however, i would stay with the larger shops like thaweesuwan.

as a foreigner you only need to show your passport or thai driving license. if you have a bank account you should get a safe deposit box, annually debiting your savings account automatically and put the bars there. dont show them to the officer; make a point of putting some documents in the box the first time you access your box, in front of the officer. you never know about spare keys here. also if you have a thai girlfriend or boyfriend dont talk about your box and be the sole signator for access. You never know what chemical might be in your beer if you do.

 

here's the assay office's wwebsite: http://www.bkkassay.com/eng/index.php  

 

BTW, you can also get 5 baht bars which are even less likely to be at risk of fraud than the 10 baht bars.

 

If you take the bars out of the country, like to the eu or usa, nobody there will probably know what they are or be willing to pay spot for them because they would not be familiar with them.

interestingly there is a push now by all the gold shops in thailand to sell 1 kg 99% bars. few people are biting.

 

Lastly, avoid the gold futures the banks are pushing. its so easy to buy and sell the physical in Thailand.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 08:29 | 2288137 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

Real, purest, safest, easy to hide gold. No fake yet available. Buy while you still can.

https://online.kitco.com/bullion/gold/product_box_gold_maple_5x9_1oz.html

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 16:44 | 2288994 funthea
funthea's picture

The exact psychogy that sways your argument for the down side of this information, equally can sway the argument for the up side of this information. Namely, that as investors preceive the possibilities of mass fraud from tungsten filled bars, they can conclude that the amount of actual gold, i.e., non-tungsten tainted, is less than what has been propogated. Thus, there is less gold to be had...

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:28 | 2287921 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Those bad dreams are real !

  No comment!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 01:43 | 2287936 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

OT: Will the Real Mitt Romney Please Stand Up (feat. Eminem)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 02:37 | 2287969 dust to dust
dust to dust's picture

 The BIG TEST on everything. IS IT VALID, or BOGUS? Prosecute, seek legal punishment against JON, the MF raper of our funds. I'm pissed. Hey, JON did you get gratification?  

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 02:50 | 2287979 dust to dust
dust to dust's picture

 I retract the CAPS on the ex gov's good name. Thanks ilene. He will get his JUST DUE. The good FOLKS can only HOPE.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 02:55 | 2287982 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Tunsten may not be as good as gold but it sure beats fiat? LOL.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:01 | 2287985 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

In a world where paper is KING, St Ben must be celecbrating to see another reason for the cult of paper continues, and sheeply to keep taking his cool aid

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:04 | 2287986 mc_LDN
mc_LDN's picture

So Im wondering this gig is still being run ever since Rome. Is it the same crew? Honestly when you look at history you start wondering when the game just keeps getting rehashed both financially and militarily

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 03:16 | 2288001 headless blogger
headless blogger's picture

http://maxkeiser.com/2012/03/24/kr266-keiser-report-selective-amnesia-for-brokers-murderers/

 

Interesting interview of Lars Schall by Max keiser. Max says that Germany's 60% Gold holding in NY was hypothecated for the bank bailouts. The rabbit hole has no bottom. All of this gets overwhelming and its easy to see why most people just keep their heads in their asses.

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 04:03 | 2288037 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

The Perth Mint Swindle

is the popular name for the robbery of 49 gold bars weighing 68 kg from the Perth Mint in Western Australia on 22 June 1982. The bullion was valued at A$653,000 at that time (2011:$2.02 million).

The "Yellow Rose of Texas".

In a separate matter, in September 1982 the three brothers, their parents and another man Brian Pozzi were charged over a matter relating to a manufactured gold nugget known as the "Yellow Rose of Texas". Perth Businessman Alan Bond had purchased the nugget for $350,000 in November 1980. It was later found to be worth less than $150,000 and Raymond Mickelberg and Brian Pozzi pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy to fraud at their June 1984 trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth_Mint_Swindle

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 05:04 | 2288053 Quicksilver Will
Quicksilver Will's picture

Silly scammer, one needs to add a pinch of platinum for the best chance of postponing detection. About 1/36 should do the trick.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 11:14 | 2288314 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Yes, and PT (temporarily, at least) is at discount to Au. Don't want to wait until there's a 10 - 20% premium again.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 05:33 | 2288061 bloostar
bloostar's picture

Long tungsten!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 05:40 | 2288064 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

 

 

I trust the krugerrands in my pocket.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 06:36 | 2288075 Zerohedge fan
Zerohedge fan's picture

Fort Knox-Tungsten Capital of The World

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 06:35 | 2288076 Zerohedge fan
Zerohedge fan's picture

Fort Knox-Tungsten Capital of The World

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 07:19 | 2288096 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Fiat gold - bullish - green shoots

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 08:25 | 2288135 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

This calls for a sequel. A triangular “Solution The Three Kind”.

1)      The Fed prints more money than even God (Goldman) can imagine.

2)      The CME initiates a new tungsten futures contract.

3)      Every HFT algo is reprogrammed and every hedge fund strategy is changed to dump all shares of AAPL and use the money to bid up the price of tungsten futures to match gold. 

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 09:14 | 2288160 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

A second look at the Federal reserve by Griffen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAoDUZ1cW6I

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:57 | 2288286 TruthDetector
TruthDetector's picture

The dealer said:

 

I suspect the bar in question was the product of a criminal gang. They most likely bought a real bar with certificate, clamped it in a drill press, drilled out 5 holes and pushed in tungsten rods. The hardest part would have been convincingly resealing the drilled end with melted gold from the drill holes. Whilst I suspect this was not a once off it would certainly be rare. As most gold bought back by dealers (and all bought by scrap dealers) ends up getting re-refined or sold to manufacturing jewelers, if there was a large number of such bars we would be hearing about it on a regular basis as the bars were melted down.

Greg Hudson
ABC Bullion
www.abcbullion.com.au

 

The bar in question IS the product of a criminal gang.

It's called The Federal Reserve, the Western Banking Cartel, the sociopaths at every level of government and their henchmen. 

Remember: they have the technical expertise AND where-with-all to create real-LOOKING bars, complete with certificates and sell them on the open market to be POSSIBLY caught later AND the MUSCLE to keep it quiet UNTIL it's discovered.

 

This goes ALL THE WAY to the top of governments EVERYWHERE.

 

Wake up folks! This is NOT being completed by some small gang...

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:30 | 2288486 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Ummm....Why are you placing comments about gold and tungsten counterfeiting...

In this thread about Cops shooting young black kids?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 09:10 | 2288167 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

#Obama: US will not resume aid to #NorthKorea if it proceeds with launch of satellite long-range missile. #US #SouthKorea /@-AJELive

#Obama: US will not resume aid to #NorthKorea if it proceeds with launch of satellite long-range missile. #US #SouthKorea /@-AJELive

S. Korean military: N. Korean space rocket on launch pad

North Korea is crazy enough to launch their missile on South Korean election day or a day before...

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 09:57 | 2288211 goldinpenguin
goldinpenguin's picture

It would make sense for Bernanke and his central banker buds to float around some debased gold just to try and keep parity with their confetti currencies, right?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:16 | 2288235 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

US Treasury - "I Promise To Pay The Bearer in Bundesbank Gold the Sum of ...."

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:20 | 2288245 magpie
magpie's picture

Hello, my name is Hans Gruber and i'm here to fix the cable.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 10:54 | 2288282 TruthDetector
TruthDetector's picture

The dealer said:

I suspect the bar in question was the product of a criminal gang. They most likely bought a real bar with certificate, clamped it in a drill press, drilled out 5 holes and pushed in tungsten rods. The hardest part would have been convincingly resealing the drilled end with melted gold from the drill holes. Whilst I suspect this was not a once off it would certainly be rare. As most gold bought back by dealers (and all bought by scrap dealers) ends up getting re-refined or sold to manufacturing jewelers, if there was a large number of such bars we would be hearing about it on a regular basis as the bars were melted down.

Greg Hudson
ABC Bullion
www.abcbullion.com.au

The bar in question IS the product of a criminal gang. It's called The Federal Reserve, the Western Banking Cartel, the sociopaths at every level of government and their henchmen.  They have the technical expertise AND where-with-all to create real-LOOKING bars, complete with certificates and sell them on the open market to be POSSIBLY caught later.

This goes ALL THE WAY to the top of governments EVERYWHERE.

Wake up folks! This is NOT being completed by some small gang...

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 07:49 | 2288291 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

Nice flimflam, but do you have any more election year grifts?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByJAC-sfXwumZzI2bVlON2VTMnFyYVZZSnpDYnNy...

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 11:12 | 2288309 tamboo
tamboo's picture

TUNGSTEN ALL THE GOLD BARS!!!

http://i.imgur.com/MExNN.jpg

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:05 | 2288407 grizzle
grizzle's picture

Beat me to it!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:10 | 2288428 cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

Counterfeiting the barsis basically how Rome dealt with their implosion. They clipped and shaved coinage. Good to know that humans haven't advanced since those times. And with the Fed and JP hammering gold price with fake bot trades, flash crashes and paper futures that have no ability to be redeemed, what's different. The Barbaric metal is just a cog in the barbaric control finance system we call "economics."
It's all a big board game, and the rules are changed hourly by the system which controls reserves and money supply.
Remember in Star Trek, they claim money didn't exist anymore?
Money being claimed as an ill in equal weighting to war, or disease.
Maybe that's the issue- we need to rethink money and exchange. I barter my skills for other people's services when I can- because the storage value of money and currency is bullshit. The FED and western economies are purposefully destroying the barter, currency of the labor unit. The USwill be one big Foxconn soon if Ben has his way- twiddling his bullshit numbers.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:12 | 2288433 Ghostintheshell
Ghostintheshell's picture

FYi metalor is the third largest refinery in the world, I have used them for years- yikes!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:30 | 2288472 gnomon
gnomon's picture

duplicate

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:28 | 2288480 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Will tungsten be traded on the stock exchange?

I'm therefore bullish!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 12:28 | 2288482 gnomon
gnomon's picture

The surest money will be the small denominations of Junk Silver that have been smoothed, polished, and dinged by the hands of our patriot fathers and grandfathers.  

It will be readily accepted in back alley dealings without the need to test or authenticate other than the dates on the coins.

Junk Silver is for the turmoil between the fiats, the one ending and the other to be.  Junk Silver in the one hand and a well-oiled revolver held in the jacket pocket will be the new freedom, replacing the lies that now overwhelm us.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 14:13 | 2288691 Jeanne dArc
Sun, 03/25/2012 - 16:30 | 2288962 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

No, the warning sent to ABC Bullion is perfectly legit.

 

The site you linked did not seem to realize that the bar had been cut and thus distorted. You can't shear a bar in two, take a photo, and expect it to match a photo of an intact bar.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 14:31 | 2288720 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

Two measley bars in how many years? So what?!

Every day I open my wallet and find paper dollars stuffed (backed) by debt.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 16:28 | 2288957 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

It is interesting the amount of fraud that comes up and will continue to come up as trust becomes suspect everywhere. Prior to the last Great Depression, massive amounts of gold were moved around the world as various soveriegn nations attempted to gather resources in a failing world monetary system. We see it again.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 18:36 | 2289202 prole
prole's picture

Here is my limited knowledge:

The one, sure fire, 100% accurate test to test if your gold is real and how pure it is or isn't----

Is to MELT the metal in question, per item or all together, melt, stir mix, pour into whatever mold shape bar you prefer, then drill some out and test it, this is your purity.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 18:54 | 2289247 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Is this all a distraction from the Corzine hearings??

 

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 22:22 | 2289787 Rockmann
Rockmann's picture

Planting a seed of doubt about gold? Now who would do that ? A gold bear or the Feds? So who is the anonymous scrap dealer who found the gold in question? It all seems so secret and pretty good timing after Bernanke's comments last week.

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 07:52 | 2290299 Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

Go on about salted gold bars:

 

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3oh45m/

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 11:21 | 2291085 Trifecta Man
Trifecta Man's picture

I want to live,
I want to give
I've been a miner
for a heart of tungsten.
It's these expressions
I never give
That keep me searching
for a heart of tungsten
And I'm not a youngster.

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 09:47 | 2294022 paddy0761
paddy0761's picture

Don't know if this link has already been posted, but here it is (in case not) - sounds like a very rare occurance:

http://www.perthmintbullion.com/blog/blog/12-03-26/Fake_Bars_-_The_Facts...

 

Sun, 05/13/2012 - 23:31 | 2422714 qiongqiong
qiongqiong's picture

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