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Tungsten-Filled 10 Oz Gold Bar Found In The Middle Of Manhattan's Jewelry District
It is one thing for tungsten-filled gold bars to appear in the UK, or in Germany: after all out of sight, and across the Atlantic, certainly must mean out of mind, and out of the safe. However, when a 10 ounce 999.9 gold bar bearing the stamp of the reputable Swiss Produits Artistiques Métaux Précieux (PAMP, with owner MTP) and a serial number (serial #038892, likely rehypothecated in at least 10 gold ETFs across the world but that's a different story), mysteriously emerges in the heart of the world's jewerly district located on 47th street in Manhattan, things get real quick. Moments ago, Myfoxny reported that a 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit. The discovery was made by the dealer Ibrahim Fadl, who bought the PAMP bar in question from a merchant who has sold him real gold before. "But he heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten -- not gold. The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce."
What makes so devious is a real gold bar is purchased with the serial numbers and papers, then it is hollowed out, the gold is sold, the tungsten is put in, then the bar is closed up. That is a sophisticated operation.
MTB, the Swiss manufacturer of the gold bars, said customers should only buy from a reputable merchant. The problem, he admits, is Ibrahim Fadl is a very reputable merchant.
Raymond Nessim, CEO Manfra, Tordell & Brookes, said he has reported the situation to the FBI and Secret Service.
The Secret Service, which deals with counterfeits, said it is investigating.
And cue panic on the realization that virtually any gold bar in the world, not just those in Europe and Australia, which have already had close encounters with Tungsten substitutes, but also New York may be hollowed out and have a real worth of a few dollars max. Which, sadly, is fitting considering our main story from last night was the realization that an unknown amount of Chinese iron ore had either never existed or had simply vaporized, and was no longer serving as the secured collateral to various liabilities circulating in the electronic ether. After all, only the most naive out there could conceive of gold being sacrosanct when every other asset class is being diluted to infinity by a regime that has long since run out of money.
As for gold-based transactions on West 47th street: look for that market to grind to a halt at least for as long as it takes for this scandal to be forgotten too.
The only open question remaining will be how much of the gold located 90 feet below Libert 33 is in the same Tungstenized format. For what it's worth: it is unlikely we will ever find out.
This is what glaring gold counterfeiting looks like.
And for the reading challenged:
New York News | NYC Breaking News
All that said, with false flags rampant these days, we would not be surprised if this is merely yet another attempt to discredit gold, this time physical, as an undilutable medium of warehousing wealth. So buyer beware: in a time when everyone is broke, triple check before exchanging one store of wealth for another.
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And if it can be done with gold bars it can be done with gold coins.
Call me paranoid, but after watching this, and having a number of 10oz Monex gold bars, I'm feeling more than worried.
After reading some of the comments above about ultrasonic thickness gauges, and watching a few YouTube videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T8fdshyEek) on how they work, I promptly ordered one off of eBay from a seller in NJ.
Of course, how do I know that the UTG isn't fake too! AAhhhh.... I gotta stop smoking this stuff...
Monex, yeah, you really did your homework, eh?
Don't beat around the bush... what are you implying?
I suggested a few months back that ZH should kick off a "How low can they go" discussion...QE to infinity cannot buy time without equal and effective discreditation of the metals. Think there wont be quality fake silver as well.....THINK AGAIN...
The fake is an example of precision engineering and fabrication requiring very sophisticated facilities and equipment. IMHO, as a retired aerospace engineer, some person or persons unknown either made a very large capital investment to create these fakes or a legitimate factory is churning out counterfeit minted gold bars.
To clone a gold bar minting factory requires the following capabilities and raw materials:
o real gold bars, of course;
o process gold bars into sheets either by rolling the bars or melting the gold bars and continuous casting of gold sheets;
o everything required for precision copying, machining and polishing of several master obverse and reverse die, duplicating in every detail each legitimate bar to be counterfeited;
o stamping mirror image production die and complete destruction or recycling of worn out die;
o rolling mills to produce the upper and lower gold "envelopes" to precisely control density and dimensions;
o production of the inner tungsten net troy weight "letters" for the gold envelopes;
o placing the tungsten "insert" between the upper and lower "envelopes";
o polishing stations to produce highly polished surface finish;
o annealing furnace to soften the gold "envelopes";
o "cookie cutter" punches to punch-out precision gold bar "envelopes" covering the tungsten "letters";
o annealing furnace to seal the gold "envelopes";
o edge finishing to conceal even the hint of a seam between upper and lower gold "envelope" halves;
o stamping presses with the working obverse and reverse mirror-image die;
o weighig stations because deviation in mass (weight) will be very suspicious;
o detailed knowledge of the serialization for each counterfeited manufacturer and details regarding their anti-counterfeiting technology;
o production lines to counterfeit each legitimate minted gold bar manufacturer's certificate and packaging, including paper and ink, which is nearly equivalent to producing counterfeit currency;
o highly secret, secure and reliable distribution networks;
o money laundering operation to conceal the profits from accountants and authorities;
o the list grows each time I read the preview.
All of the above required to setup a cloned-factory is prohibitively extensive and expensive. The purchase of that equipment would leave a paper trail with equipment manufacturers, shipping networks, customs inspectors, etc. Skilled employees who can be relied on to keep the counterfeiting secret are a key requirement as well.
Therefore, I bet that a legitimate factory is making these counterfeits at the express direction of a sovereign nation's leadership. It has to be located in a country where the employees are skilled, reliable and who most importantly know that leaking information carry dire consequences for one's self and one's family.
Any countries come to mind? No. How many countries come to mind?
What is their motivation? Pure greed? Desire to destabilize one's adversaries? Destabilize a particular political bloc? Produce revenues desperately needed to support a failing regime?
Thinking about this has given me a headache. I'm done.
What country? Probably the USSA.
I think this whole scenario is a plot by the Oligarchia Ruskies.
They just announced they have HUGE diamond reserves.
Now the rollercoaster will start running on MASSIVE fake gold worldwide; like the China rehypoth scam is catching the steel industry by its baaaaalls! No pun meant on ball bearings.
Who will this flashing of diamond Mirrors help; if hot money wants to find safe haven...?
"Tovarich, we sell you goooood gas from Gazprom, and now we sell you 'diamonds are an Oligarch's best friend'. An offer you can't refuse."
Goldfinger meets Diamonds are forever!
COme get your REAL diamonds, those rocks are made for Virgin rockers!
Simple as simple Simon met a pieman...
Putin is RAS-Putin.
All it needs is a "Khazarian joo" connect to Antwerp, Amsterdam, NY jewelry mall and that should do the trick!
We now know the face behind the who-dun-it!
Where is James B ?
[Tiffany Case opens the door almost nude]
James Bond: That's quite a nice little nothing you're almost wearing. I approve.
Tiffany Case: I don't dress for the hired help. Let's see your passport, Franks.
[Bond gives her his passport. She looks it over]
Tiffany Case: Occupation: Transport Consultant? It's a little cute isn't it? I'll finish dressing.
James Bond: Oh, please don't, not on my account.
gregga777: "The fake ... example of precision engineering ... requiring very sophisticated facilities and equipment ... as a retired aerospace engineer
...
Thinking about this has given me a headache. I'm done."
Valiant effort in your post (please, post in the future to this detail!), but I think you may be over-thinking what is necessary to do this; examine closely the fake bars in the images at the head of this thread and I think you can eliminate or change half your process-steps and replicate what is shown in the images shown above ...
Only 1 country comes to mind -
CHINA.
"...so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000..." What a Bulls***. What would you do, to prove you have real gold bars?
Better get my gold checked
I drilled into a $100,000 bar, and all I found was caramel and some nuts.
Priceless
(humor)
Snicker!
I want to bid on these no good pieces of junk. The tungsten can be melted down into a mold for a sabot within a .30 caliber bullet and inserted into conventional lead and copper projectiles. When precisely placed and secured it will turn a normal 7.62 mm bullet into an armor piercing projectile comperable to depleted uranium rounds used in the middle east by the US. Essentially, the tungsten turns white hot upon striking the object (at 2500 fps and spinning 250,000 rpm) working like an RPG to go through 1 inch or more of hardened plate, including APC type layered armor. It can make swiss cheese out of the hardened vehicles used by FEMA/DHS. It will absolutely decimate any clear aviation "glass" such as that used in the Apache.
I open my Ebay bid at $10 per pound, 100 pound lot minimums. I'm going green and helping the planet.
Where should we send contributions for your legal defense fund, man? Some seriously humorless guys in suits with white shirts and narrow ties are going to be knocking on your door pretty soon. Ha, ha. I'm joking but they won't be.
I want to bid on these no good pieces of junk. The tungsten can be melted down into a mold for a sabot within a .30 caliber bullet and inserted into conventional lead and copper projectiles. When precisely placed and secured it will turn a normal 7.62 mm bullet into an armor piercing projectile comperable to depleted uranium rounds used in the middle east by the US. Essentially, the tungsten turns white hot upon striking the object (at 2500 fps and spinning 250,000 rpm) working like an RPG to go through 1 inch or more of hardened plate, including APC type layered armor. It can make swiss cheese out of the hardened vehicles used by FEMA/DHS. It will absolutely decimate any clear aviation "glass" such as that used in the Apache.
I open my Ebay bid at $10 per pound, 100 pound lot minimums. I'm going green and helping the planet.
How much a GE Phasor XS cost ? I am prety sure that all bars from big buyers like GLD are automatically checked. Gold should be embossed with highly sophisticated paterns on 4 sides.
Sheesh.....They'll be faking dollar bills next.
Obviously this was put together by a cabal of UTG manufacturers.
But seriously, it seems the easiest way to get away with this is to have a copy of the original mold.
Bullish news... as there is even less gold in circulation than thought.
After the reported Metalor fake I doubt these are isolated instances.
The Secret Service SAID it is investigating.
The Chinese ARE investigating.....with drill tests.....my guess its gonna be a long day for someone...
If I were going to run a false-flag against the physical gold ownership movement this is EXACTLY what I would do too.
So I guess this is why China is reported to be re-melting all it's 400oz bars into 1 kilo bars.
They will then release their new official gold reserves in kilos, and challenge all countries around the world to prove that their gold reserves are real.
#kaboom
and that is because it is so difficult to melt gold plated tungsten bars sized in oz and produce fake kilo bars... or not really... I'd gladly take care of that for a fraction of "saved" gold
Remelt your 400oz bars into 1 kilo bars, adding tungsten at the same time..... increasing your gold reserves by....hmmmmmm......a few thousand kilos?
#bingo
Sponsored by bankster.
If they are "investigating" then why on earth did they completely destroy the *only* piece of evidence they have?
Looks like a fake story, he would be drilling all his bars as a checking method? bahahah
Also it's almost impossible to get the tungsten inside to make it fit in the way its supposed to have been done here.
A 10 oz is relatively small, resulting in more bars, resulting in higher chance of detection.
I think this is a set up to discredit physical buying.
EPIC FAIL
1) If you have bars of any type, you'd be stupid not to panic and check what you have.
2) This dilution makes the real deal imminently more valuable.
3) Paper gold holders are even further away from the real thing.
4) Allocated gold holders ... still happy with your photos and certificates baring their numbers. I'd check the bars are even there!
5) If this doesn't make people realise the value of silver!
6) Stick to coins
Junk (lol) silver, sounds good to me.
It seems there is something a bit fishy with this story, though it might be caused by crappy reporting or editing. The most obvious aspect that seems unbelievable is this sophisticated dealer drilling the bars to test them. As previous comments in this thread already note, there are several ways besides density to test gold bars for purity.
So the question is this. Why would a sophisticated dealer NOT test his gold bars with non-destructive tests? Of course it is possible he did so, got erroneous readings, and only drilled the suspect bar after performing those tests. In this case, the reporting sucks! Otherwise this guy may be involved in the scam himself (at the behest of the secret service, who understands a clear, visual proof is a more dramatic presentation to sucker weak-minded fools).
Anyway, clearly the full story has not been reported.
FYI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNzwCFJbSs
Anyone know of a tungsten etf? GLD?
It explains this for sure:
http://etfdailynews.com/2012/06/11/why-warren-buffett-is-loading-up-on-t...
What can I say? I've been warning people about this for nearly ten years. And silver is STILL mostly too cheap to bother counterfeiting.
Silver For The People
http://www.brotherjohnf.com/
I just checked my Obama Silver dollars I bought at an aution. Two for $10.00.
They have unusal properties. My magnet is stuck to both of them. The Autioneer said they were valuable.
My Grandsons will get them eventually.
The Birth of Hope.
The serial numbers on the first and third picture do not match.
First, the implication in the story is there was more than one Twinkie bar. Second, am I the only person who found it odd that there was a Christian cross hanging on the wall behind them? Is that guy a Lebanese Christian or what? I can't speak for the NY Jewish Jewelry district, but where I come from it is not normal to have a plain cross hanging on the wall in a Jewish business district, even if you are a Christian. Heck, it's not normal outside a Jewish Business District.
This whole story stinks to high heaven. He "heard" there were counterfeit bars going around, so he just randomly drilled some? What? Watch the clip. Someone is not telling the truth here or leaving an awful lot out. Nothing smells right about this story.
Yeah Mo, that crucifix made me pause also, definately out of place on 47th
Jews aren't nearly as uptight about Christians as visa versa...
Didn't mean it like that. They had two things on the wall, a clock and a plain Cross, about a foot high. Nothing to do with being uptight, do you know many jewerly places that would have that on the wall? I don't.
Tungsten, too, will be a store of value when paper is diluted to 1/gazillion oz of tungsten.
I saw all of this coming. That's why I only buy small bars and coin...1oz and smaller. The premium as a percentage goes up proportional to the gold content, so unless you're buying hundreds of thousands of dollars worth, buy small ones.
In time, the price of coin and small bar (1oz and smaller) will be more valuable since they're much safer (it's not profitable and to go to all that trouble to make a fake 1oz coin/bar)...so higher premiums!
Pays to buy small denominations.
Nothing about this story seems right to me
Not so much an effort to discredit precious metals, rather one more scam taking advantage of a high priced asset in the midst of a mania.
From fiat currencies to tungsten currencies.
Gold is a pretty metal used to make jewelry. I think they still use gold whiskers in chips. Not much else.
I would think that you don't have to drill a gold bar to tell that it is tungsten even if the weight is the same.
Tapping on tungsten and real gold bars would probably produce different sounds if you used the right tool.
Never seen quite as much use of the Like / Dislike button... Another snore day in the markets, may tally up them up!
It's hard to go wrong with old coins...
No need to run a drill through all your gold. Just use a good Whites brand metal detector. The audio tone and digital spectrum readout will expose the presence of the tungsten. In the unlikely event you get a readout that differs from your known gold piece, THEN bust out the Makita.
this is proof-positive that we need to switch to a tungsten standard - they can then make counterfeit bars by filling them with gold
hmmm... i just looked it up and tungsten is actually rarer than gold!
Why would a reputable gold bar manufacturer not stamp the precise weight of the bar on the bar?
Also the bar has a serial number, wouldn't the accompanied paperwork establish the bars precise weight?
Jim Sincliar is not buying it.
"My opinion is this is disinformation. The diamond district in NYC is Hassidic Jewish.
Nobody cons those guys".
I don't believe 90% of what I read and I don't believe this one. Everything about this story seems fishy. Let a hundred bars like this one show up and I might change my mind. Even this bar looks like a fake fake.
Doesn't anyone else find it interesting that this 'discovery' happens just after QE3 is announced and gold prices spike? Casting a shadow on the quality and thereby safety of a gold position would be a really good way to try to stem the flight of capital out of the paper markets and into gold and other precious metals....