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Turd Ferguson: The Inexorable March Higher For Precious Metals

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Chris Martenson

Turd Ferguson: The Inexorable March Higher For Precious Metals

Turd Ferguson is a funny guy.

But there's one thing this irreverent, acerbically goofball forecaster is stone-cold serious about: the need to build personal exposure to the precious metals.

For him, it's a straightforward mathematical certainty that the global economy must collapse under the weight of the excessive (and exponentially compounding) credit amassed over the past several decades. The debt is simply too large to be serviced.

As a growing number of analysts (including Chris) are predicting, Turd sees the replacement of the world's current monetary regimes as the endgame to this story. And he believes we are watching that endgame unfold in real-time now.

In this interview with Chris, Turd discusses his reasons why gold and silver offer the best prospect for preserving wealth through the coming devaluation of world currencies, despite his strong conviction that the markets for these metals are heavily price-manipulated.

In fact, it's precisely due to this manipulation that Turd is able to predict short-term price movements in gold and silver as confidently as he does:

Believe me, if you looked at my trading account and looked at my success in trading corn, or soybeans, or crude, or something like that: I make choices just as badly as the average guy.  The reason why I am successful in forecasting gold and silver is because they are manipulated.


Because once you understand that the bullion banks, particularly JPMorgan in silver, are in there trying to stack the deck in their favor, then you use some simple technical analysis.  And you begin to see where they're going to act, where they're going to place some sell orders to try to start cascading waterfall selling by tripping stocks.  It's not real hard.  I mean, its pretty basic stuff.  But once you admit to yourself that if this does take place, it makes forecasting where price is going pretty easy...


We see this quite often where the prices of gold and silver – they decline rather sharply after hours, after COMEX trading hours, on the Globex because volume is so thin there.  A little bit of money thrown at the market – any new paper shorts can have a rather dramatic impact...


And that is where the manipulation has a lasting impact.  And you can't get that money back... And it takes a whole bunch of new buy orders, a whole bunch of new speculative longs and commercial longs to come in and bid it back up to where it was before that raid. And so, they're always going to be in there.  Again, I guess the ultimate question is at who's behest are they doing this?  But, nonetheless, they're in there controlling price, managing the assent, if you will, to create this illusion that there's still confidence in the dollar, that all is well.  And that it's okay to go buy a new car. 

Turd sees the precious metals as a true barometer of the dollar's devaluation as the Fed pursues its policy of negative real interest rates -- which is challenging for the average consumer to see, when the dollar may strengthen on a relative basis versus other fiat currencies and the government-published CPI is artificially low. In his opinion, the government is well aware of the signaling function of the PMs, and therefore feels it needs to manage their ascent in as drawn-out and orderly a process possible in order to prevent the frogs in the pot (i.e., the citizenry) from noticing that the water is getting a lot hotter.

The important mission here, in Turd's mind, is to realize that the economic reality we have come to accept as "normal" is over, and to take protective action. And once you have done so, to try to help those around you wake up to that fact -- a major challenge, as most people don't want to think about it, and the entrenched status quo powers are aggressively marketing that 'return to normalcy' is just around the corner:

The last thing I would add to that, Chris, and one that's challenging, and I'm sure you've seen this too in working with your subscribers is where we are headed is unlike anywhere where we've been, at least in recent memory. I mean, there may be some octogenarians out there that remember what it was like before the Great Depression and during the Great Depression and before World War II. But it's a world like that where we're headed to.


All I've ever known, all my friends and family, even my parents really have ever known is this hegemonic United States that was the world power, and provided the world's reserve currency.  And we could print as much as we wanted to, and then export the inflation to all the other poor staff that had to – took our dollar.  And so we bought their cheap stuff.  And those days are over, and it's a really hard concept.


If you haven't had personal experience with something else, it's a really hard concept to get your arms around.  That the United States isn't going to be this huge economic and military superpower.  Just because it always has been doesn't mean that it always will be.  And as we talked about, the numbers and the fundamentals suggest that it's not always going to be.


And so you got to kind of prepare yourself that tomorrow's not going to be like today, that we're in a new paradigm.  And try to intellectually figure out, okay, how do I survive and prosper in this new world knowing that it's coming?  And that's what we try to do. I know that's what you try to do.  And it's our job, Chris, to try and help as many as we can. 

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Turd Ferguson (runtime 47m:19s): 


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Fri, 11/11/2011 - 17:56 | 1871036 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

EXCELLENT for bringing Turd Ferguson's article to ZH!  Kudos, Tyler.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:08 | 1871068 ZeeGerman
ZeeGerman's picture

Thank you Tyler for giving visibility to a great man, worried about all of us!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:18 | 1871091 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Amazing how many bloggers started as just posters here on Zero Hedge. Only Turd and Gonzalo seem to have gained major traction after they left, but i'm sure there are many more (do chen, rocky, etc). Feed the Turd!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:52 | 1871167 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

And Bob has his blog, what's it called,,,,

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:10 | 1871203 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

My new blog is coming soon.  It's called,


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:47 | 1871254 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Really Lennon Hendrix? How much pleasure can you derive by thinking and talking about me while I'm not present? It must be enjoyable.

Perhaps a more efficient allocation of your time would be putting on a nice shirt and going to the local bar and chasing some women? If you're not busy talking/thinking about me you might actually go home with a girl (or guy whatever your thing is)

It is Friday night no? 

If you're married you might be better off focussing on the needs of your woman. 

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:12 | 1871285 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Sometimes I joke with my friends.  Learn to take a joke.

I'm heading out to my buddy's house after I make this post.  He is tapping a keg.  I just got back from a restaruant where I made two lady freinds (minus the wait staff, they were friendly as well). 

Being social has never been a problem of mine, which is one of the many reasons I like it here.  I have made some of my best friends on this site.  Anyway, take care Bob.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:27 | 1871474 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



I would call bob a Fag but I dont want to disrepect any of my gay friends here..

so asshole while have to suffice!

Mr. Hendrix you just keep on keepin on, he will get his in the end.. I got $5 on it!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:14 | 1871288 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:21 | 1871309 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I thought his blog was ""?

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:39 | 1871405 piceridu
piceridu's picture

Yeah I think you're right trav, or it might be:

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:02 | 1871273 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

@phyuckyiu-I like what Turd, Lira, and the rest are doing-spreading the word we are in trouble.


That being said (and don't get me wrong, I've 'fed' the Turd and gone to the website many times), but the aspect of trading precious metals is ludicrous. If you have a 401k or retirement plan that you can't or don't want to go to physical, buy Sprott/PSLV (or AGQ if that is your thing) and sit on it. You are just going to get yourself in trouble entering and leaving the market.


I also think it sends the wrong message of market timing for physical. If you have cash sitting around, it is always a good time to buy physical! You don't wait around for an internet guru named Turd to tell you that. Like I said, it is great there are people spreading the word about the inevitable collapse. Just don't base any investment decisions about what they say is coming. If you have the means, buy it now and sit on it. Anyone that claims to know when the collapse will happen or when the market is going to be parabolic is just guessing.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:33 | 1871479 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



I would hope that everyone here..


1. Silver for day to day.. or the next great big run up, it works either way.

2. Gold.. becuase it is Money (so is silver dont start).

3. Guns and Ammo (and I dont mean the fucking magazine)

4. Medicine! all you can get of what you need.. and dont be affraid to hire some young punks if the world goes down the shitter to provide you with a LOT more of what you need.

5. Power.. SOLAR BITCHEZ!! (Physical) or Wind and my Favorite Water / Hydro (you need water to drink any way, why not combine the two and be a Double TIGER WINNER!

6. Water / Dry Goods.. yada yada yada.


But.. Silver is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more scarse than gold.. and guns and ammo.. eveything else if you had too.. you could free from being captive elsewhere.


Sat, 11/12/2011 - 04:11 | 1871819 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Rt's Mom, I talked my mom into buying a decent amount of silver sprott when the premium was only at 9%. She thought I was nuts at the time, but she pays closer attention now. My friends and I prefer coins. Cheers.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:07 | 1871278 Solid Gold Bubble
Solid Gold Bubble's picture

Don't forget SGS - who has recently moved off Blogspot onto his <a href="">own site</a>.



Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:22 | 1871467 oddjob
oddjob's picture

SGS has ZERO original content except profanity.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:45 | 1871583 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Agreed.  The Andrew Dice Clay shtick will die quickly.  I think Dice could spell, though.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:53 | 1871178 bernorange
bernorange's picture

Hear, hear.  Agree 100%.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:09 | 1871070 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

If you live in peru I may come visit someday. You and your factory woyld be easy to find.

Peru is the boring old man of latin america. I need hard partying hot nights with latinas at the clubs though!

I do want to chew the leaf!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:24 | 1871102 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ top!

I live here in the USA.  But, we go to Peru twice a year, me to visit customers and plan our purchases.  My wife goes to see family and friends.  We are going down there soon for a couple of weeks.

Let me tell you something.  Peruvians KNOW HOW TO PARTY!  A 4:00 AM finish is almost typical.  You would really enjoy that there in Peru!

The coca leaf is not impressive.  Really to get any noticeable buzz, you also have to put something alkaline there in your mouth (they use some kind of ashes), ick.  And in Lima, no one chews the leaf, it's considered real hick behavior.  But, the trendy "Coca Sour" (Peru's Pisco Sour made with some coca) is something you should at least try.

I think you know my email.  Let me know if/when you are heading down there.

To Everyone: Peru is an extremely interesting country, they are relatively friendly to tourists.  I met the girl who became my wife there...


They are the world's 5th largest producer of gold.


Sat, 11/12/2011 - 08:25 | 1871902 cossack55
cossack55's picture

and Big Assed Volcanos

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:00 | 1871270 centerline
centerline's picture

Is that where they wear funny hats?  It would be cool to wear a funny hat.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 01:11 | 1871704 philipat
philipat's picture

The main reason why Gold is being manipulated by the CB through the PD's is undoubtedly to prevent other CB's, China in particular, from putting its reserves into Gold rather than green. That would leave only the US to buy its own debt. Gold and inflation would eventually have to respond accordingly and green would be soon worthless.

PS. Green as in dollars not soylent. Although................................

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 03:25 | 1871793 Banksters
Banksters's picture




Fri, 11/11/2011 - 17:57 | 1871038 truont
truont's picture

Let's hear it for the Turd!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:16 | 1871303 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

The Turd is The Word.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 02:47 | 1871768 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Vive l'Turd!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 17:57 | 1871039 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

hey chris.  would you please tell turd that they finally got around to killing that wascally osama the other day,? 


thanks pal....

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 17:58 | 1871040 Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture


Thanks for all you do, man.......

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:00 | 1871048 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Hi Hammy, Dona K, and MBD!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:29 | 1871238 Doña K
Doña K's picture

You rang?

My fear is that the Bernak has unlimited amounts of digital money and he can supress gold forever. Even though, I do have a chunk, I am afraid to buy anymore.

Not sure what's going on. Turd's thesis, is theoretically intact.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:02 | 1871276 centerline
centerline's picture

+1, I visit the Turd site regularly.  Junior Turdite status.  About to convert some long dated bonds for my kids college funds into PMs.  The writing is on the wall folks.  2011 has already said everything you need to know about the extents to which the maniacs will go to preserve the status quo.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 17:59 | 1871041 Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

Turd = Big hat, no cattle ... but plenty of PM.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 17:59 | 1871043 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

Honest question: If the system is imploding because of too much debt that is denominated in fiat currency, the won't actual paper money (which is in relatively short supply compared to electronic money/debt) become extremely valuable?  Isn't the whole thesis deflationary?

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:04 | 1871057 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


I am counting on some monetization of debt, some deflation, and hoping for time, productivity, and growth to do the rest.

I believe in a long slow muddle through to a slightly lower standard of living. No serious deflation. No serious inflation.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:18 | 1871095 common_sense
common_sense's picture

How much time bank system will be support without financement??

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:31 | 1871127 B9K9
B9K9's picture

What you're observing is the middle-game: default & print. TPTB manage effective default through means testing, raising of age limits, etc, in addition to selected actual hard defaults (ie Greece et al "50% haircuts"). Then they offset the deflation via printing in order to maximize the appearance of stability, resulting in this seemingly weird b-flation where both the deflationists (Stoneleigh, Denninger) and inflationists (Lira) are wrong.

But, it's important to note that it is still only the middle-game. That is, it attempts to manage the route towards our inevitable conclusion, which is foreordained by the simple mathematics of exponents. It really is a pity Mako got banned - he was the one guy who rightly pointed out that once that first fateful step is made by using interest bearing credit, the death certificate can be printed, with only the date to be applied at the appropriate time.

Now, the Chosen know this perfectly well. I mean, it's a craft that has been perfected by them for over 5,000 years. So when they launch another credit cycle, they already know the steps which lie ahead in terms of the middle-game we're currently experiencing, and then the eventual end.

The end comes when everyone's purchasing power has declined to such a degree that instincts born of pure animal competition for scarce resources reasserts its dominance. In other words, war. Any review of history reveals this pattern - it's a lock-solid sure thing. So the key aspects to understand are: (a) how the credit-money system works in the first place; (b) where we are in any particular cycle; and (c) how to possibly survive the coming blast.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:36 | 1871144 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Mako got banned? 

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:17 | 1871215 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Don't think so.  Shit, if Robo ain't banned, then no one can be banned.

Mako made some good points, but he also was extreme in calling Tyler out on where we are in the cycle:  Inflation / Deflation thing.  But, in all fairness, I don't believe he was banned.  Like Cheeky, he's either now writing for ZH or just said the heck with it.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:09 | 1871282 centerline
centerline's picture

I enjoyed reading Mako's posts and learned alot - but, he lost it and bit at the Tylers.  Everyone lost in his banishment.  But, he did piss off the host.  Bad form - but understandable when viewed from the perspective of frustration.  Once you look the truth in the face, you are never the same again.  I have struggled for a couple years now to just keep my head up at work at times.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:41 | 1871493 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



I dont think Tyler banned Mako..

1st off Tyler is a BIG BOY and has a set of Ballz to Match.. Tylers Posts (not the filler news updates) are Fucking Toothy and Worthy of ALL the attention plus..

so, Tyler would not Ban anyone for having a good point or a bad point for that matter..

I am still here and I piss off everyone!

So Mako is out there! come one Mako! show yourself! save Tylers good name! I know you want too!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:20 | 1871552 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

Tyler's good name doesn't need saving, ZH is solid for letting people speak... However, there are lines that are not to be crossed and I am pretty sure I watched mako cross one of them some time ago.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:28 | 1871564 defender
defender's picture

I think that I remember a "screw you guys, I'm going home" post from him just before he disappeared.  Basically he said that he was tired of repeating himself and banging his head against the wall, and he would rather spend his time getting himself prepared for what is to come.  He might have even went off the grid, as it looked like that was his end goal.

To the best of my knowledge, every person that was banned was allowed back in after a cool off period.  Chumba would be a good example, as well as someone that I am glad to have back on the board.  I am pretty sure that they were given warnings as well.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 00:14 | 1871617 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Any good ZH 'asset' is under full control.

Once management feels you are not zheeple material they send you to slaughter.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 00:59 | 1871683 defender
defender's picture

I have been lurking here since the blogspot days.  There are very few people that have been banned that I can think of, and of those, at least 2 were allowed back on. 

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 02:11 | 1871751 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Personal spats and disputes with the Tylers hasn't resulted in removal of anyone as far as I can see.   Being crude, rude, and other socially unacceptable writing sure has.  No need for it.   Anything can be discussed rationally but some just don't seem to be able to maintain the required civility.   As a side note, I also get tired of explaining the same old stuff to the same old obstinate folks.   Convincing people who are steadfast in their misconceptions is futile.   I'd rather not.   Same goes for friends, relatives, and neighbors.   If a gentle coaxing doesn't get them started on the road to survival then there is no use wasting time on them.   I do like the Turd and hope he hangs in there with his work.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 02:53 | 1871770 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

They're all lurkers.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 04:27 | 1871825 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

I miss your posts rocky.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 02:41 | 1871767 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"I have struggled for a couple years now to just keep my head up at work at times."

Allllllrighty then!  :-D

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 11:51 | 1872074 beachdude
beachdude's picture

Once you look the truth in the face, you are never the same again.  I have struggled for a couple years now to just keep my head up at work at times.

You said it, centerline... this is a topic in and of itself. Just dealing with people at the office and their cognitive dissonance can be incredibly difficult.

I think they know that somethings wrong, but they don't know what it is, or what they would do about it.

They don't know that they don't know, and they don't want to know.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:00 | 1871190 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

So true. The deflation is labor.  The inflation is cash. 

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:15 | 1871294 centerline
centerline's picture

Not that I know anything at all.. but I think the overall trend is deflation.  Inflation will be a monetary trend (a subset of the larger trend though), and coincident with the primary trend (deflation), which will be experienced in a physical sense.  Which is more "real."  That is easy. It is deflation.  And this deflation will take a great deal of time to happen.  As B9K9 mentions elsewhere in this thread, the monumental pressures this creates ultimately leads to war.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:50 | 1871507 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Just now reading "When Money Dies" by Adam Fergusson, and it always involves war and food.  I can't really do anything about the war part (except keep my boys out of it), but I am doubling down on food storage.  I am only on chapter four and they are already trading gold watches for bags of potatoes.  I am not going to argue about you can't eat gold, but you better have a shit load of food before you start storing wealth in pm's.  As sure as gold is money, food is a weapon.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 00:48 | 1871667 squidward
squidward's picture

A very timely read for Armistice day.  I learned as much from that book about interwar  sentiment as I did the hyperinflation.  

The haunting part are the parallels of German debt repayments and the PIIGS.  

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 05:32 | 1871851 Seer
Seer's picture

Give a man a match and he can light a fire.  Set the man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.  Uh, oh... give a man a fish and...

Fundamentals!  Food, Shelter and Water.  PMs are NOT fundamentals (though, in this materialistic world, and most definitely for the transition period [which folks here may never see the end of], PMs _DO_ have importance).

Those that can feed themselves are the ones that are truly free.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 09:23 | 1871914 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Amen brother, and it is a lot harder to feed yourself than most people think.  This mini-farming lifestyle is hard work with an abundance of opportunity for failure.  No short cuts to it either, there are books and blogs that help but mother nature is a bitch.

Check out a very good video on land vs. gold and silver 

"Why silver and gold won't protect you from the economic collapse that's coming"

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 10:32 | 1871977 centerline
centerline's picture

Dont forget about basic medical supplies as well.  A simple infection can be a real showstopper.


edit:  I have been trying the home gardening thing here and there (calling it micro-framing would be stretch).  Is hard with a full time job to really do it right.  But, I could easily say that even if I had the time, I am not sure I would be successful enough to feed a family.  And definately not within the first few months.  It is not easy.  

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 11:33 | 1872047 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Medical and dental preparedness goes from a basic medical kit to mini trauma centers and everything in between.  Now there is a scenario where a little silver or gold could come in handy.  If you had to barter for some medical or dental care from a local doc or dentist, or barter for medicine.  Of course food is also a good barter item (remember when doctors were paid in chickens?).  So far my family has been lucky, we haven't needed much medical or dental care.  I hope that continues to be the case post collapse.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 13:49 | 1872218 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

What did the smart Jews, gays, ect. do as Hitler rose to power?  They got the hell out!!  They didn't stock up on food and weapons as a long term plan.  But for those of you who plan to stick it out - be sure that gold and silver will be the only money and money will still be necessary for trade.  You can't barter for everything--it's just not feasable.  Also learn to make "colloidal silver" it's very easy and is the best anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal with no side effects. It  can be ingested, inhaled via nebulizer or applied topically( "google" all the uses). It is medicne so only take it when you need it, also it can not be stored so only make it when you need it. Youtube has many demos of how to make it at home. Also Vodka, 420, honey, molases, coffee will be in great demand. Tampons, diapers, razors will be of value as well.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 16:06 | 1872368 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Some days I wish I could get the hell out, but most days are spent preparing for an economic collapse. If they come to round me and the family up, I will deal with it then.  I think they will have their hands full in the urban areas (I am 100 miles from the nearest one).  Agree with the list of barter items (what is 420?).  Alcohol has almost indefinite shelf life, so does honey.  

What do you see on the other side of the collapse?  My concern is a WW3 scenario with nukes, but that is hard to prepare for.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 17:02 | 1872447 Loose_Cannon
Loose_Cannon's picture

420 = medicinal herb

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 18:08 | 1872545 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

There will be no nukes.  TPTB, i.e. the ones that have the power to launch them, know that they will become victims too if this happens.  Nukes are only useful against someone that doesn't have any nukes.  Read Prouty's recent book "JFK".   It's an eye opener told from someone that was there as it unfolded.  I learned a lot that wasn't on the evening news.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 21:52 | 1872854 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

great corner happening here, can agree with the colloidal silver recommendation, thought I'd add another - this one's cheaper & works quickly - I have personal experience with it clearing up a heavy chest congestion overnight. . .

and the original guy - love him! his recommendations for using same in food gardens is also very well proven

thanks Bill !

best wishes guys.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 13:51 | 1872222 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

What did the smart Jews, gays, ect. do as Hitler rose to power?  They got the hell out!!  They didn't stock up on food and weapons as a long term plan.  But for those of you who plan to stick it out - be sure that gold and silver will be the only money and money will still be necessary for trade.  You can't barter for everything--it's just not feasable.  Also learn to make "colloidal silver" it's very easy and is the best anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal with no side effects. It  can be ingested, inhaled via nebulizer or applied topically( "google" all the uses). It is medicne so only take it when you need it, also it can not be stored so only make it when you need it. Youtube has many demos of how to make it at home. Also Vodka, 420, honey, molases, coffee will be in great demand. Tampons, diapers, razors will be of value as well.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:44 | 1871499 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



America has to deflate to re-inflate its self..


Lets not forget America has to lower itself to the rest of the worlds standards, so that everyone can be on equal footing.

The World is lowering living standards for the sheepish workers! and they are getting away with it!


Sat, 11/12/2011 - 07:50 | 1871895 Seer
Seer's picture

Whether there are a group of conspirators or not, the fact is that, despite Dick Cheney's protestations to the contrary, the American Dream isn't sustainable.

This is yet another illusion that keeps us chained to Their wheel, that we should "fight" to keep our "living standards" high.  Physical reality says that we'll lose this fight, and that it's NOT a fight with our "masters," it's a fight with Mother Nature, and Mother Nature bats last.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 13:47 | 1872216 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

good points, as always, Seer (and the others above emphasising WATER/FOOD/SHELTER before anything else) - I'd only like to add best learn to co-operate with Mother Nature, this "every man for himself" line is about to be tested, big time.

and as long as Father Military is messing with Mother Nature's truths, there will be hardships.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:18 | 1871217 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well see how the game was played in england during the napoleonic wars.............

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:19 | 1871220 redguard
redguard's picture

Does Mako still have a web sight? If so what's the address?

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:16 | 1871297 centerline
centerline's picture

Thanks Vic.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:17 | 1871305 centerline
centerline's picture

websites look old...

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:07 | 1871279 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Any advice on ascertaining (b) is appreciated targeted authors, books etc.  Thank you

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:13 | 1871287 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Any advice on ascertaining (b) is appreciated targeted authors, books etc.  Thank you

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:44 | 1871334 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Mako wasn't the only one.

He and I differed only in that I don't see the effing apocalypse and madmax as a result.  the lizards have been doing this since their holy texts were written, always to outsiders.

There's a lot of history people don't know and the history of chosen participation in the basest vice trades, to a point of dominance of them, is but one aspect that has been whitewashed.  Carpetbagger interest lending to freed slaves was another source of income, as was the financing and trade in the slaves themselves.  If you repeat this history, you are marginalized and smeared.

However, these cycles run longer than human lifespans; there is no particular planning in them, just how to work with clan power to dominate any particular phase.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:54 | 1871512 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



There is a better than not chance the idiot sheep will sleep thru being robbed.. I agree.. but Trav.. even you have to admit the law of averages is catching up with them.. it is a numerical certainty.


I would hope and pray for that matter that the World does NOT! tear itself apart over the greed of a few.. I would also admit that they have a winning track record..


But I stand by the Fact that it may happen..

as well, food for thought.. if you so choose.. because of the affordable  energy crunch / Peak Affordable Oil / Peak Lite Sweet Crude.. coupled with an information age that has gotten out of control.. could lead somewhere off the well traveled trails.


I would also like to add.. nothing we see in heavy rotation on corporate owned news channels is an accident. It seems to me that the possibility of 8 Billion people and climbing fast.. is bothersome, it is easier to let us kill each other off and have less natural resource(s) drain and PLUS!! be able to sell the idea we are not to be trusted with firearms.. going forward.


So? are we killing each other off?

or are we just being entertained while our quality of life is lowered to Global Standards?

and Trav.. try not to be a word nazi and just share.. Thanks!


Sat, 11/12/2011 - 03:36 | 1871799 DarkWanderer01
DarkWanderer01's picture


I find it a little discomfirting that given a choice between killing lots of people off and a lowered quality of life.. there are many who suggest the former. And nobody opposes the idea.

Hell, if all Americans were to get rid of their cats and dogs enough resources would be saved to feed a billion people.



Sat, 11/12/2011 - 13:50 | 1872219 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

no need to get rid of companion animals, but ignorant, lazy amrkns that won't spay / neuter need a reality check upside the head.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 21:06 | 1872772 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

Erm...  Your so-called "Law of Averages" isn't a mathematical "law" at all.  It's a poor understanding of the principles of statistics.  Kind of funny that you invoke it as fact after generalizing a large swathe of people as idiots.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:17 | 1871374 OneEyedJack
OneEyedJack's picture

After the 401k's have been saved from the way too too risky stock market and safely secured  (read spent)


The end game will have arrived.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:25 | 1871386 Metal Minded
Metal Minded's picture

"The end comes when everyone's purchasing power has declined to such a degree that instincts born of pure animal competition for scarce resources reasserts its dominance. In other words, war."

TPTB will indeed try to draw us into WW III if we let them. Remember that when the "end" comes, there will be no scarcity of resources, only scarcity of the means of exchange to purchase the resources. Only outright stupidity on our part will allow them to do that to us once again, as they have done time and again for millennia. The bread lines and soup kitchens will be the result of Artificial Scarcity, the war(s) completely unnecessary.

"instincts born of pure animal competition"- how dramatic!

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 11:09 | 1872013 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

You have a major error in timing revealed by "soup kitchens will be". Newsflash! Soup kitchens "are", not "will be". How long would bread lines in America be if the Food Stamp LINK cards were processing payments electronically?

Given that requirements for getting food stamps may be lax for political purposes, there are some 40 million-plus people being fed by subsidy in America.

The devastation that unemployment brings to family structure is part of the big-picture breakdown. Animal competititon is all over the local news with cold-blooded street killings and strong-arm robberies. Just like gangsters in the 1930s, killers today are walking into Aldi grocery stores in Chicago firing away as they enter to rob the cashiers. Two stores in a month sounds like working a plan in progress.

It is easy to see how hyperinflation would appear attractive; after all, isn't the problem that we don't have enough money? Printing more and more currency has a logic to it, that's why it happens: TPTB benefit a while longer from it.

So whether we devalue the currency through inflation or destroy wealth through deflating asset values, we still end up with a need for a new money value, always denominated in relation to ounces of gold. End game


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:58 | 1871518 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Well fucking shicksa, fuck you too.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 05:14 | 1871845 Seer
Seer's picture

As usual, very trenchant!

Happy to see that so many others feel the same.

In the simplest form: CREDIT = GROWTH.  Growth = (eventual) Collapse

The equations are simple.  The issue, however, is in being able to see them through the fog of Grand Illusion.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 09:56 | 1871962 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

It's not so much an issue of a debased currency destroying purchasing power as it is a general overall decline in per capita wealth measured independent of any elastic fiat yardstick.  The biggest tragedies of the current era are the devotion of so many brilliant minds to an essentially at best useless activity--i.e. the short term trading of securities, and the massive unemployment that has resulted from the capital market disruptions and misallocations caused by the end of our capital markets serving as institutions where capital is accumulated then lent out to fund the most beneficial economic activity.

We will never regain the hours and productivity being lost presently when people who want to work cannot find jobs.

We will never regain the capital spent on McMansions and HFT supercomputers and 9 figure bonuses for hedge fund managers.

As a result, we have become poorer per capita, and we will continue to become poorer per capita.  The situation certainly will not be improved by any total loss of confidence in the medium of exchange that makes normal commerce possible, but I can see systems of private currency, or script, or PM emerging to replace the fiatscos.

Economic activity will continue.  The fiatscos were just a way to keep score.  Wiping the scoreboard clean and starting over will not be the end of the world, although it will sure suck if you thought you were superrich because you owned a boatload of financial paper.

I get tired of reading all of the apocalyptic doomer posts that predominate the comments section every day.  I read them, then go to work in the most economically depressed region in the USA, and get stuck in wall-to-wall traffic, hundreds of thousands of people going to work.  20% unemployed means 80% working.  It could and should be better than that, and lots of people are suffering needlessly.  I have a hard time accepting the proposition that next year we'll be roasting each other down by the firepit.

It's too easy to get caught up in the shadow world of financial chicanery and forget that right now the human race as a whole has better food, better housing, and better health care than than at any time in history.  The financial world can go ahead and collapse, and that would still be true.  The banksters would like you to believe that the financial world and the real world are one and the same.  Anybody who claims that the collapse of one is the collapse of the other should wake up and realize that you are acting as the mewling, piddling sycophants of your financial masters.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 10:20 | 1871978 DrunkenMonkey
DrunkenMonkey's picture

But didn't the wars part of your theory start with Iraq and Afghanistan when the US realised they (and the rest of the west) were holding a busted flush and needed more resources ? Not criticizing (as us lazy westerners have lived high on the horse for longer than we deserved), just observing.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 21:58 | 1877859 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

This is pretty much what I was saying . . . purchasing power will be dessimated for anyone crazy enough to trust electronic fiat (debt fiat) rather than just possessing actual dollars.  I'm interested to hear and learn more about what you perceive the "steps which lie ahead," because I am struggling to understand it all.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:17 | 1871216 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The Fed is monetizing right now by definition of ZIRP. 

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:33 | 1871242 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Not enough to hyperinflate.
Just enough to stagflate.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:05 | 1871059 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ yardtsick

+ 1

Hey it's an honest question.  My hunch is that paper money would be rather valuable for a short time if the electronic and credit markets lock up.  A short time because I think there would be a risk of hyperrinflation once they got down to printing the new $1000 Obama FRNs.  Then the $5000 FDRs.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:19 | 1871218 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Followed by the $100 trillion Bernanke note. Zimbabwe equivalent now sells for $2 on ebay.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:16 | 1871295 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

This guy on Ebay has a plethora of fake bills, tempted to get some to use to replace FRN's someday...

I didn't see a Timmay Trillion note though...or the Bernanke Billion, hmmm...

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:41 | 1871411 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

100 trillion is just a number.  Think of them as 0.001 oz. of gold for the time being.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:04 | 1871061 UGrev
UGrev's picture



Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:52 | 1871345 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

heh.  a C programmer.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:51 | 1871588 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

for ( ; ; )

   c_Rulez( oh_yeah );

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:27 | 1871112 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

The question of timing of deflation and inflation and hyper-inflation. 

IMHO, there may be a time when paper notes increase in value, but it will be short, and the true producers (coin shops, farmers, etc.) will already understand not to take paper notes. They might work at the grocery store, but only before the shelves empty. 

Ultimately, you have to plan for the end-game, and not just an inning or even just a play. Even in deflation, paper currency will fail, as people realize that the debts cannot be paid. Deflation can quickly morph to hyper-inflation as the money dies. 

The currency is backed by nothing but confidence, when that goes, it all goes. 

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:42 | 1871330 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

The confidence unike what I have written before will not go away ever as the sheep do not UDDERstand anything they are sooo stupid.  Hunger and only hunger as producers truly go galt will change anything or cause existential threats to the ponzi..

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:07 | 1871534 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Get your food before your worry about gold.  If you have enough FRNs for both, go for it.  I would start rotating a two year supply ASAP.  History shows (lack of) food is a weapon of mass destruction. 

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 11:59 | 1872080 ljag
ljag's picture

The writing is already on the just gotta know how to read it.


IMO, the banksters already have most of the gold/silver and will continue to rig the market until just ZHers have a few coins left. Once they decide they have all the gold/silver they can get, they crash the system( $10 gas and HIGH heating oil prices ought to do it).  FRNs will work until they don't and grocery stores will have food until they also don't. People in the cities will get hungry and DEMAND that TPTB do something. Again, once the RIGHT number of people have died,  they will introduce the new world order currency that is BACKED BY GOLD AND SILVER (so even the smart sheeple will think it is good) and that will be that....TOTAL CONTROL.


Have I missed anything?

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:45 | 1871160 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Remember, it's the ones who get to use newly created currency first who benefit most, and this is regardless of whether it's paper or digital.  By the time any kleptocracy outsider realizes there's a hyperinflationary event in progress, it's already too late.  Holding paper may be negligibly better, but I wouldn't count on it.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:36 | 1871399 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Nobody uses cash anymore.  I feel like the only person out shopping that doesn't whip out plastic to make a purchase.  The CBs don't even need to print anymore.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:41 | 1871413 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Nobody uses cash anymore

Not true, at all.

I only use plastic to buy online, and if I get caught (very rarely) without a wad of cash in my wallet.

Most here have the means to carry $500.00 cash on them most of the time,pay cash for everything you can.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:02 | 1871049 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

Did Turd not cut his teeth under Tyler though?

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:03 | 1871053 fuu
fuu's picture

I expect the new RNR/LFP to make an appearance in this thread.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:06 | 1871066 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I expect you will be right.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:03 | 1871054 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Turd was on the dating game once.  

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:03 | 1871055 economicfreefall
economicfreefall's picture

The list of countries, states or municipalities in a financial mess is endless. There is no practical way out of this situation except a complete restart of the system. The only choice we still have is if the new one will be more free and honest or just as corrupt and disgusting as the system we have today. For the former to happen, a lot of people in high positions must end up in jail which means people have to get informed, rise up and show that enough is enough.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:04 | 1871056 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I do have a problem with the turd. I like his thinking, but he advocates to not take physical delivery.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:20 | 1871097 unky
unky's picture

I also like his short term predictions, but the silver massacre on may 1st or september 26th he also did not foresee. I stick to my plan to just stack physical whenever i have money availabe. this also helps to not loose 1000s of dollars when my broker goes bancrupt (mfglobal)

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:39 | 1871248 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I "foresaw" the may implosion. Put fifty percent of all my spec money on a double short silver etf (i dont play with options directly any more).

Posted my trade and price here a week before the collapse.

I am the forty year old high school quarterback. I will be reminding all of you about my greatest play ever, even twenty years from now.

Unlike some, I post my trades ahead of time :)

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:00 | 1871520 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



You are a P.I.M.P. Sir for that call.. and I bought all the way down.. and still do! I buy on down days! should be my motto!

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 01:32 | 1871679 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yep, A broken record is right every dip, or something like that...

Well, so far at least two others see right through you: good for them.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:37 | 1871326 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

One word - Yogurt.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:22 | 1871104 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:33 | 1871134 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

That is wrong. Turd encourages and promotes stacking.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:53 | 1871170 akak
akak's picture

How ironic --- my snacking encourages and promotes the turd!

However, given that we are talking about the Turd here, "piling up" might be the more appropriate metaphor.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:57 | 1871184 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Bay, akak

Good comments...  And LOL!

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:04 | 1871198 akak
akak's picture

Funny how often the three of us (along with tmosley and Rocky) have commented sequentially in the comments section here.  Or maybe, it is not surprising at all.

Thanks DoChen -- always good to see you here.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:14 | 1871209 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:26 | 1871230 Chicken_Little
Chicken_Little's picture

"A turd in the hand is worth two in the tush"

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:01 | 1871272 akak
akak's picture

My first actual LOL of the day!

Most excellent!


Sun, 11/13/2011 - 02:27 | 1872648 akak
akak's picture

Now what the FUCK did four utter assholes find offensive enough (or offensive at all) in that innocent comment to junk it?

There seems to be a small but determined number of junk-happy, otherwise anonymous trolls in these boards lately.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:21 | 1871221 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

stacking is good.  stack it high and stack it deep, pm and ammo............

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:18 | 1871306 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

And munchies...

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 22:06 | 1871443 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture



And seeds and canned hams and etc....


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:04 | 1871058 B9K9
B9K9's picture

Serious question: let's say you have $1m in net assets. Are you going to put it all in PMs and bury them in your backyard? Someone, somewhere will eventually let something slip, and the next thing you know, your young daughter is getting her fingers clipped off one-by-one until you tell your "guests" where your gold is located.

Or, let's say you put it all into Treasuries - next thing you know, Uncle Ben is speed burning the printers to the point that the purchasing power of your $1m is soon $500k. And that's assuming interest rates stay flat - if yields increase, you also have capital losses.

Alternatively, you could go to cash, spreading out $250k per TBTF. Again, with Ben at the wheel, you could easily see your purchasing power drop by 50%, with the added benefit that a bankrupt FDIC may not actually cover your deposits.

Last, but not least, you can stay in the market. If you own equities in stable businesses, such as oil & gas, utilities, etc, you will end up losing as the stock prices decline to reflect lower economic activity, but unless they go BK, you still, at a nominal level, actually own a piece of producing property.

There aren't any real answers to this conundrum. One must be resigned to the fact that they were born at a certain time that put them in this parcticular time & place. It could have been better ie coming of age in the 50s, or it could have been worse, ie being in your 20s during the period of 1914-1918.

The thing to do is accept that no one is taking anything through the bottle neck. Just try and be still standing when the dust clears, and perhaps help rebuild a new future.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:10 | 1871073 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Your first PM fear driven excuse is foolhardy. 

Shut your face, and bury it.

Loose lips sinks ships. Or blowmouth daughter loses fingers.

Or give up and in as your rationalization is so endowed.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:15 | 1871212 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Invest in some lead to save the girl's fingers.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:21 | 1871222 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Who would tell their daughter where their wealth is buried?  That's just plain dumb.

Yo BK.... you drunk?  First you claim Mako was banned.

Now u claim that daughters will sink the family ship.

What gives?

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:42 | 1871251 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Anyone coming into one's home armed and looking for the family treasure is going to assume everyone knows where it is.  I think it'd be better for the kid to know where the stash is since "I don't know" could be met with lost fingers or a lost life.

Best bet is to keep a small stash where the entire family knows and the majority of the treasure somewhere else.

If anyone is forced to tell, they'll give up a small portion of the overall pie and hopeufully get out intact.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 21:30 | 1871394 RobD
RobD's picture

Unfortunately once the any stash is found by the wolf, the wolf will do what wolves do....kill.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 23:20 | 1871554 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

NO one should know you have a stash until absolutely necessary -- not spouse, not kids, no one.  What good would it do for anyone to know?  Leave instructions upon death.   Why potentially expose family to potential trouble.  Americans feel compelled to talk, tell what they know, boast.

Be quiet.  Take care of your affairs as privately and as anonomously as possible.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 18:18 | 1872558 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Plus if you decide sometime to leave the wife and kids for a new life, you don't have to share with them, eh?  Some wives may not be that trusting.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 18:22 | 1877236 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

That may be your style.....not mine.  

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:46 | 1871338 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Check Mako's blog he says he is banned, me next maybe...

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 04:30 | 1871824 redwraith
redwraith's picture

They wouldn't be asking the daughter where the gold is, dude.  They would be asking Dad as they are clipping off daughter's fingers while he is forced to watch.    Why does this have to be explained?  (Although this scenario is highly speculative and probably Hollywood driven and should not be a deterrant to stacking physical.)  Just be smart about your stash.

Sat, 11/12/2011 - 10:21 | 1871980 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

You guys are really funny!

If there is a complete breakdown in law and order, no single family will be safe.  Large gangs of well armed thugs will be looking for your food and your gold.  At best you might be able to argue that if you shoot back, they'll walk down the road and pillage your neighbor's home, but eventually the pickings will get thin, and your place will get a return visit, and that will be the end for you.  You will be tortured just for the fun of it.  Whether you disclose the location of your secret hoards will be sort of beside the point.  Great if you do, but if you don't, at least the thugs' boredom will have been alleviated for another day, and there will always be tomorrow and another family to torture and rape.

If you want to save yourself and your family, you will have to form your own large gang and live communally in a location that has a defensible perimeter.  Your hoard will either remain secretly in the ground where you buried it, or have to be used as the initiation fee to induce the good people to let you into their compound. 

I am not saying that your hoard will be useless, since if it buys your way into some small amount of security, it will be well spent, indeed.

But this prevailing image of a bold and brave man, standing alone in defense of his family and his PMs, pointing an assault rifle out of the bay window of his brick ranch home at 200 guys with mortars and rocket grenades is hilarious.


Sat, 11/12/2011 - 19:27 | 1872664 akak
akak's picture

But this prevailing image of a bold and brave man, standing alone in defense of his family and his PMs, pointing an assault rifle out of the bay window of his brick ranch home at 200 guys with mortars and rocket grenades is hilarious.

What I find truly hilarious is this prevailing image of so many of you who have bought into the bankster's self-serving propaganda, that the collapse of the current financial and monetary paradigm is somehow going to lead toArmageddon and the end of civilization itself.  THAT is a woefully ignorant and wrongheaded view.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:16 | 1871083 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Diversification, bitchez. You just gave a great argument for it.

Everyone loses in a crack up boom or deflationary collapse. The key is to lose as little as possible.

Even if u r all gold through a crack up boom you lose, as your standard of living and income opportunities will likely be less on the other side.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:25 | 1871108 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

"Everyone loses in a crack up boom or deflationary collapse"

What are you saying you lose a little gain a little?  There are definitely net winners in both scenarios.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:40 | 1871130 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Think about the lack of demand and the lowered economic complexity and specialization AFTER a collapse. Crack up boom or otherwise.

Your employment prospects will be less. Return on equity probably lower, and products such as happy meals will have greater cost inputs. Production in aggregate will be less efficient.

Yes definitely even gold holders lose. Most of us will still need jobs and sources of income afterward. Even if you owned a lot of gold.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:46 | 1871259 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Yes definitely even gold holders lose. Most of us will still need jobs and sources of income afterward. Even if you owned a lot of gold.

Depends on how high it goes, how old you are, and if you can offload it before the Sheeple start the panic.

You have 200-300ozs+, at 6k-11k per oz, your going to be pretty much set for life.(IF your not a pig).


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 20:11 | 1871284 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Understanding how things may be different and what you can do with your PMs is the whole ball game.  that is. . . .if. . . .you are in the ball game at all.  If you have to spend all your PMs just to eat and survive, well. . . . you didn't plan very well. 

Mike Maloney is the best for these kinds of discussions.

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:37 | 1871145 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

In both scenarios, inflationary or deflationary - losing less than everyone else (who will lose everything) is winning.  Since the concept of "wealth" will be reinterpreted not to include fiat confetti - you need to be prepared for a local economy based upon real production and trade based upon real assets - whatever they may be.


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:13 | 1871085 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ B9K9


-- I would diversify PM holdings as well as the places you hide them.  My family's PMs are in SIX different places.

-- Diversification is one of my favorite words.  I am not at the All Inn anywhere.

-- You hint strongly at being prepared and alert.  Yes!  But, it is HARD to be well prepared for who knows what.

-- Stable, solid and cash-generating businesses are good too, as you suggest.


If our standard of living goes down gently, it will not hurt me much (depending on which way this all goes).


Fri, 11/11/2011 - 19:50 | 1871262 domains-are-har...
domains-are-hard-assets's picture

@DoChen - 100% agree. Diversify.  Multiple locations for PMs is good advice.  However, I would also look beyond PMs.  The basic issues with PMs are:

(1) They are hard to transport, particularly if air travel is involved. You will probably have to cash them in first rather than attempting to board a plane with a sock full of Kruggerands a sack of Silver Eagles.
(2) If you lose them -- or if they are taken -- they are hard to recover.

To be clear, I think having PMs on hand as alternate liquidity makes sense, however for anyone trying to hedge 6+ figures of wealth without being entirely in fiat, things get more complicated.  I personally am a big proponent of mutlple forms of alternative assets.  A personal favorite is development-grade internet domain names.  Why?  

(1) They are valuable and finite like PMs but can be transported instantly, and still held anonymously

(2) If you lose them, you can easily find them and regain control. 

(3) With a modicum of effort, they provide yield and capital gain potential.
Keep Hedging ... Diversfy  ...  and Feed the Turd! 

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:30 | 1871123 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

The conundrum of storing wealth has been around since the dawn of the agrarian age.  It either rots, or is looted, or taxed...well that falls under looted.  But the govt and banks have made it oh so convenient for us.  Swanson and McDonald's have made dinner so convenient.  Well it's time to be inconvenienced again, to lead a healthy and sovereign life.  

Fri, 11/11/2011 - 18:35 | 1871140 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ok, you keep your money with MF Global, we will keep ours until our kids fingers get cut off, and then we'll see who holds out the lo...

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