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Turns Out China IS Lying About Everything

Tyler Durden's picture


In what may come as a shocking surprise to exactly nobody, the next great discovery as more and more layers of the global ponzi onion are exposed, is that China was, in fact, lying about everything. Yes, we know, stunning.

From the NYT:

As the Chinese economy continues to sputter, prominent corporate executives in China and Western economists say there is evidence that local and provincial officials are falsifying economic statistics to disguise the true depth of the troubles.


Record-setting mountains of excess coal have accumulated at the country’s biggest storage areas because power plants are burning less coal in the face of tumbling electricity demand. But local and provincial government officials have forced plant managers not to report to Beijing the full extent of the slowdown, power sector executives said.

Even that lonely indicator that some, even us, had considered somewhat realistic: electric output, is a mirage.

Electricity production and consumption have been considered a telltale sign of a wide variety of economic activity. They are widely viewed by foreign investors and even some Chinese officials as the gold standard for measuring what is really happening in the country’s economy, because the gathering and reporting of data in China is not considered as reliable as it is in many countries.


But an economist with ties to the agency said that officials had begun making inquiries after detecting signs that electricity numbers may have been overstated.


Another top corporate executive in China with access to electricity grid data from two provinces in east-central China that are centers of heavy industry, Shandong and Jiangsu, said that electricity consumption in both provinces had dropped more than 10 percent in May from a year earlier. Electricity consumption has also fallen in parts of western China. Yet, the economist with ties to the statistical agency said that cities and provinces across the country had reported flat or only slightly rising electricity consumption.

In other words, the chart we showed a month ago showing already collapsing Chinese power production is far, far worse in reality.

So why is everything piece of data out of China a lie (and by implication, why are all talking heads and pundits who preach the China "bull case" full of it)? One simple reason: politics.

Questions about the quality and accuracy of Chinese economic data are longstanding, but the concerns now being raised are unusual. This year is the first time since 1989 that a sharp economic slowdown has coincided with the once-a-decade changeover in the country’s top leadership.


Officials at all levels of government are under pressure to report good economic results to Beijing as they wait for promotions, demotions and transfers to cascade down from Beijing. So narrower and seemingly more obscure measures of economic activity are being falsified, according to the executives and economists.


“The government officials don’t want to see the negative,” so they tell power managers to report usage declines as zero change, said a chief executive in the power sector.

When all is said and done, the reality is that China, which according to idiotic press rumors that resurface every 2 weeks is supposed to bailout, is in a condition that is worse than even where it was after the Lehman collapse:

The question is whether the actual slowdown is even worse. Skewed government data would help explain why prices for commodities like oil, coal and copper fell heavily this spring even though official Chinese statistics show a more modest deceleration in economic activity.


Manipulation of official statistics would also provide a clue why some wholesalers of consumer goods and construction materials say sales are now as dismal as in early 2009.


Studies by Goldman Sachs and other institutions over the years have strongly suggested that Chinese statisticians smooth out the quarterly growth figures, underreporting growth during boom years and overstating growth during economic downturns.


And Chinese officials have raised questions in the past about the reliability of Chinese economic statistics. An American diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks shows that Li Keqiang, widely expected to become premier of China this autumn, said in 2007 that he regarded China’s broad measures of economic growth as “ ‘man-made’ and therefore unreliable.”

So... let's see here: huge disparity between what is represented and what the reality is... a crucial political election... and a regime that many have accused of misreporting critical data for years (even if others captured media outlets accuse the former of being conspiracy theorists)...

Why... could this possibly mean that every piece of data out of the US is just as made up and just as meaningless? Now that would be truly unpossible.


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Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:48 | 2553458 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

They must have had an internship at the BLS.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:00 | 2553477 Popo
Popo's picture

So... It turns out that our lying economists are now accusing their lying economists of lying. Which either means that our lying economists aren't lying or are lying.

See the problem with a disinformation war is that when both sides play there's always a stalemate.

I'd might believe that China is experiencing economic turmoil, but since our side's economic "experts" have proven beyond all microscopic measures of doubt that they are utterly full of shit -- I can't begin to attribute any credibility to this story whatsoever. If we are to believe China is in trouble, then I must also believe the countless articles from the same sources which claim we are in a "recovery".

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:01 | 2553485 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Chicoms lying, naw never happen. Instead like EU politicians, we have to massage the truth so that the peasants cannot understand just how badly they are getting fucked.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:11 | 2553504 veyron
veyron's picture

They are covering their losses with this "chinese girls dating website". I love how it showed up on the left side when I was reading this article.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:25 | 2553528 Popo
Popo's picture

There's always someone on every comments page who doesn't realize that ads get served to them based on their past browser history.

Veryon, stop surfing pics of young Chinese chicks and you'll stop seeing those ads.


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:31 | 2553544 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

I keep getting the ugly chick in the Microsoft CRM ads, and I've never surfed anything to do with CRM. :(

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:28 | 2553664 potlatch
potlatch's picture

oops, sorry that was me.  I'm CRM-curious.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:13 | 2553751 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

China = Greater-est Fool of All

Lesson:  Reality always catches up to mythology and lays the beatdown from hell upon it. Try to hedge accordingly.

I've said it all along. While the media pundits and Jim O'Neill were hyping the astounding growth in China (I'm not denying economic growth has occurred, but I am claiming it's been MASSIVELY overstated), it will turn out that China, due to fundamental nature of its political and technocratic regimes, is and has been just another paper BRIC in the wall.

Think about it:  Local officials are able to essentially completely lie to central authorities on volumes and amounts of everything from bank loans to coal inventories and anything in between. Is it any wonder that China has been the biggest source of commodity inflation (yes, bigger even than the non-federal reserve-less bank, which is quite the racketeering outfit itself)?

"Oh, China is buying all the oil! Oh, China is buying all the copper! Oh, China is buying all the platinum! Oh, China is hoarding all the 'rare earth' minerals! Oh China is buying all the iron ore! Blah blah blah blah yada yada yada!

They've been buying/hoarding SOME of these things, and to a far lesser degree than the commodity bulls want everyone to believe, and what they have been bought (and stockpiled), that's not sitting around in enormous outdoor and indoor (specially built) storage yards & facilities is enough to last them quite a few years, probably, and that's assuming they don't get an even harder landing than the projectory that they're now on.

This is why China is likely to have the most debt of any nation in the world, despite it not showing up in official statistics. It would be as if each of the 50 states in the U.S. were directed AND FINANCIALLY INCENTIVIZED to grow their economies, in order to hit rigid growth targets, and then SELF-REPORT their progress back to D.C.  Does anyone think individual states WOULD NOT grossly inflate their 'growth' numbers they report? Can you imagine the result? can. Just look at China.

What about those regional Chinese banks? Does anyone else think literally thousands of them would make the fomer IndyMac's balance sheet circa-2009 look good by comparison? If so, add up those numbers in CN¥. 

And about their mountain/stockpile of U.S. treasury notes that was procured using Chinese fiat printed by the PBOC, based on the, shall we say 'less than accurate' data the central economic authorities have been receiving for years now, with the data and numbers distorted and butchered to the extreme by local provincial politicians and technocrats. Think about that and the implications.

Another BRIC in the Wall Lyrics - Part 3 (Waters) 1:17

[Sound of many TV's coming on, all on different channels]
"The Bulls are already out there"
Pink: "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh!"
"This Roman Meal bakery thought you'd like to know."

All in all it was just Jim O'Neills paper BRICs  in the wall.
All in all it was just Jim O'Neill's paper BRICs  in the wall.

And the London & New York banksters NOW warn of epic fallout.*
But Germans can't finance a PIIGS bailout.
For it would cause German living standards for generations to rot.

They don't need New York or London bankster bullshit.
They dont need Krugman's giant money pit.

German's don't need any thought control.
No more dark fiat charlatism for their nation.

For they have seen the Eurozone failed monetary union handwriting on the wall.

Hence-- they don't need any Bernanke Ponzinomics at all.
All in all it was inevitable that the bankrupt PIIGS would fall.
And in addition, so too would Jim O'Neill's paper BRICs in the wall.


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2553760 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Why do I keep getting dumb ass Cramer as my ads? And no smart ass comments about what I must be looking at. (I did use Yahoo Finance for some spreadsheets of historical quotes, so maybe Google sees me as a complete idiot.)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:18 | 2553767 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

And to Popo, all economists, 'theirs' and 'ours,' have been lying. Lies are necessarily perpetuated to keep Ponzi schemes from unwinding.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:47 | 2553815 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Good way to judge ethnic restaurant's quality and authenticity is to look at how many people of the said ethnicity eat there.


Given that Chinese themselves are

  • sending their children to non-Chinese universities (because of lack of creditability in Chinese schools)
  • buying homes outside of China in Canada, Australia, US (because of lack of trust in their government, economy, and pollution)
  • investing in non-Chinese companies (because they know chinese company accounting is worse than Enron's)
  • get money out of Chinese state controlled banks even for state officials (because they know Chinese long term growth is unsustainable)
  • purchase foreign cars, goods (because they know what kind of shitty quality product they produce by cutting corners)


US is not that much better. Americans are just better liars.

  • US banks are insolvent; get money out of US banks and into swiss bank accounts 
  • buying homes in tax shelter countries like bahamas
  • purchase foreign cars, goods (because not much is made in america anymore)
  • investing in emerging economies (because they know state sponsored slavery is profittable)


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:05 | 2553860 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I guess the only TRULY honest people in the world are the jews...

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:59 | 2554021 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Ahhh yes, the incredible imploding authoritarian gov't. It is a repeat of 1991. In a few months, China will come forth and say we are broke. A few weeks after that, the system will collapse. Knowing China's history, it will be most likely a violent manner.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:00 | 2554023 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

maybe the elder  Orthodox Jews protesting against zionism for using Jews...


but definitely not the hollywood jews in SHOW biz where lies are spun as reality...

definitely not the wall st. jews where scams are spun as creditability....

definitely not the political elite dual citizen jews where being subjugated by pro-Israel  lobby is spun as pro-American.


one example of honest Jew: Jewish grandmother in Israel challenging Jewishness of American Jews



Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:43 | 2554463 Michael
Michael's picture

There's nothing in the known universe that can stop the Chinese mega supper housing bubble from popping.

Everyone should know how they play their scam placing a stranglehold on the rest of society.

Defamation True Stories should be shown in every classroom.

True Stories - Defamation (2010)


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 19:07 | 2554735 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It's easy to mix up "Judaism," which is a religious tradition, with "Jewishness," which is an ethnicity.

Most American Christians aren't Christian, either.

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 01:04 | 2555181 Prince Eugene o...
Prince Eugene of Savoy's picture

That video is excrement.  If the self-loathing producer has never experienced anti-Semitism, then take a journey to Gaza or Egypt.  The Palestinian homeland is in Jordan.

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 14:51 | 2556163 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

that's what hitler said about the Zoos.


Zoos' homeland is somewhere else other than Germany.


It is politician's job to divide and conquer and create fake enemies to achieve his own agenda.

When 99% Jews get together with 99% palestinians , 1% elites in each group will no longer have the power.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:56 | 2554485 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

I think the main reason Chinese go to non-Chinese universities is you have to be smart to go in China. US will take anyone with money. As an aside, how can Chinese who are supposed to make $200/month pay for US colleges when American's increasingly can not. Doesn't add up. It's not just the Chinese top 1% sending their kids overseas.


Sun, 06/24/2012 - 15:03 | 2556191 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

China has 1.4 billion people.

1% of that is 14,000,000 people


Elites in China are richer than in western countries due to worse income distribution curve.


Chinese middle class income range is NOT $200/month....$10,000 ~ $60,000  / year.....not that bad compared to US given much cheaper cost of living.


Wake up. Chinese are getting richer. Middle class in China is already richer than dumbass republican voting rednecks in the south.


Sun, 06/24/2012 - 21:24 | 2556785 Hopeless for Change
Hopeless for Change's picture

Next time, wait until you have a valid point before posting.  Or at least wait until the quaaludes wear off.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 01:13 | 2748783 strangewalk
strangewalk's picture

1.4 billion is another suspect statistic. In Hong Kong everyone cites China's true population as closer to 2 billion, as have several independent demographic studies. Chinese monitors under report numbers to make themselves look good, and higher level officials want to portray a favorable picture to the outside, as if their policies are working (they're not). I live in China and you're right, the middle class here has a standard of living on par with the US. However, China's middle class only comprises about 20% of the population, a number that is still larger than the entire population of the US.    

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 03:08 | 2555238 Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture

"The grass is greener on the other side."

"College prep" programs are Big Bucks in China....Not to mention the heavy recruiting by American colleges to get full-pay students instead of local deadbeats. 

I also agree with above: the very top students in China still go to:

1. Tsinghua University; or

2. Renmin Univeristy (People's University).

These two have close realtionships with Standford, Harvard and Yale with many exchange programs, visting professorships, etc.

However......There is no substitute for a hard working ambitious student no matter which uni he attends. The students who have money (but not glowing grades/IQs) may  seek costly programs in the States or Australia. Additionally, it's  Fad now to go abreaod just as it used to be here for students to attend the Sorbonne (for example).

But lets not lose sight of the fact that over 50% of the Chinese live on $1 a day. Powerful; progress the last decade or two, but overall, it's still a poor country.

That's my 2 cents.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:21 | 2553776 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

I visit China once sometimes twice a year...just as a tourist. There can be little doubt China is humming. But like Las Vegas, even with shitty numbers in housing and employment I still have to wait in line at restaurants. This 'downturn' is definitely hitting some more than others. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:34 | 2553791 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I use to visit Las Vegas twice a year, and you wouldn't believe how active/frenzied/rock'n'rollin' that city was, in terms of overall economic activity, and in terms of commercial and residential building, in what seemed like a literal land of milk & honey, right up to very point the whole house of cards began to quickly topple - starting in 2006 (though the media wouldn't report on this until VERY late 2007).

Ahhh, I still remember the ICSC convention headcount/attendee list dropping by 65% in 2008 from that of a year earlier.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:11 | 2553885 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

dumbasses who saw their shitty ghetto shack rise in value gambled it away in Vegas believing that somehow they are rich.


Vegas depends on fools like wall st. You can't beat a rigged game in the long run.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 20:14 | 2554817 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

so true

and water and air conditioning is not getting cheaper

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:54 | 2553597 Burticus
Burticus's picture

Hey, where's all the banner ads with the Chinque teen hotties saying, "You come my hooch I show you good time GI" and "Easy GI, you so beeeg!"  I only see ads for gold and about the only gold I ever buy is jewelry for the wife, girlfriend and daughter.

Silver, you ask?  What silver?!

As for the No. 1 financial blog on the planet, Zero Hedge, calling the obvious in advance again and the Chinque oligarchs getting caught with their hummingbird-like schlongs in their own lying mouths again:  "Act surprised."

Always good copycats, they have obviously learned well from their Western counterparts.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:30 | 2553671 potlatch
potlatch's picture

wow.  wife and girlfriend.  big man.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:21 | 2553910 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"man with GI schlong often have hummingbird for brain"

-ancient Chinque proverb

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:30 | 2554319 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

it's the internets people, everyone has a big dick, monster boxes of gold, and is posting from their private island, surrounded by nubile teens.

back to your fairytales. . .

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 20:17 | 2554821 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

almost Cath, it's a monster dick and a big box of gold 

and all the teens are at least nineteen 


Sun, 06/24/2012 - 03:28 | 2555253 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

heh, posting between Davey & 4thStooging,

trust you both to have a uniquely witty variant on the meme!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 21:18 | 2554921 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Cathartes Aura said:

it's the internets people, everyone has a big dick, monster boxes of gold, and is posting from their private island, surrounded by nubile teens.

I'm posting from Ohio, have a monster box of .22 shells, and am surrounded by a pair of cats (but only at feeding time).

Everything else is true, though.  ;)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 22:03 | 2554995 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Can I come to your place next weekend?

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:29 | 2553937 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If he's from the right area of the Ozarks, the wife/girlfriend/daughter could all be the same person.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:24 | 2554099 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

LOL!! Likely none of them have any teeth either.  ;-)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:41 | 2554169 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

All the better for... well, you know.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:25 | 2553654 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Don't listen to POPO here, not every ad is tailored depends on what you're running and its configuration..  Frankly if that were the case the only ad's I would see would be gold, silver, ammo and knot tying courses..

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:00 | 2553712 veyron
veyron's picture

I suspect ads are linked to content if there's not enough history in your google cache (I perpetually run in Private Browsing mode) for them to present a meaningful ad.  In this case chinese -> chinese girls 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:19 | 2554074 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I get Crammer ads, I've never had any interest in that ass-clown whatsoever. I get ads for the young chicks with the "established gentlemen" as well, never ever browsed anything related to that. 

So I call bulls--t to your rant.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 18:00 | 2554634 ugmug
ugmug's picture

I get pleas for help from Chinese factory workers spitting out iPads endlessly hour after hour.



Sat, 06/23/2012 - 17:00 | 2554030 old naughty
old naughty's picture


You are not paying enuff attention. China is lying, alongside our politicans and econmists. Those girls aren't lying. They're just lay-ing on the left field.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:49 | 2553581 Seer
Seer's picture

I have to laugh at the emphasis on "politicians," like only THEY have a claim on this kind of "falsification?"  Calling Bernie Madoff...  calling Jamie Dimon... calling....

ALL POWER LIES (POWER _IS_ A LIE!).  WTF is it so hard for people to get this point?

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:53 | 2554000 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

If the Powers lie to us, it means that they think we are not powerless.

It means they're worried about what we might be able to do.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:16 | 2553511 neptunium
neptunium's picture

China is the elephant in the room, everyone's aware of the size of their realestate bubble they're in, everyone's aware how indebted their regional governments are, everyone's aware that their factories are idling.

Everyone knows that the CCP will do everything they can to delay the inevitable crunch, that talking about "soft landings" is essentially bullshit in a country where tens or even hundreds of millions of increasingly militant workers are likely to be laid off in the next two years.  

The longer it takes for reality to dawn to the markets the larger the "implosion" would be, what is the west's current banking exposure to the "Tiger Economy" surely if anything deserves to be called out as a global ponzi it's the PRC's "miraculous" era of continual double digit growth. 

How can the PRC maintain an environment of growth when factories are empty, the property and construction markets have collapsed, their regional governments are bankrupt and their major banks (and ours) look set to soon be insolvent. 

It's going to make the Euro crisis seem relatively trivial because the entire world is exposed via investments or dependent as producers. The Aussies and BRICS might want to start panicking right about now.



Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:38 | 2553557 Rainman
Rainman's picture

" Under Chinese law, manufacturing fake data is not a crime, but leaking it is . ".....Larry Lang ( my personal favorite quote : " Every province of China is Greece ")

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:43 | 2553566 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Easy. Beijing will need to start a war and bomb their own cities into shitty pieces, and restart the building boom all over again. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:20 | 2553774 michael_engineer
michael_engineer's picture

See comments on preserving infrastructure as being paramount here:

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:43 | 2553567 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Easy. Beijing will need to start a war and bomb their own cities into shitty pieces, and restart the building boom all over again. 

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 04:32 | 2555276 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

hwooah?, shitty airlines:

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:58 | 2553604 Seer
Seer's picture

Attempts at perpetual growth on a finite planet will always come to a screeching halt.

More than anything else China displays this OBVIOUS flaw.  I believe that all of the world's "leaders" realize that China's bursting is also THEIR end, as their "growth is THE goal" mantra will show them to be standing naked.  Watch Australia crash as China drastically cuts down on its coal imports.  And, as I've been saying for several years now, Canada is going to take a hit to their real estate market (which has defied all reality up until now) when China busts: lots of students of the rich Chinese will be called back home, thereby creating a flood of open rentals (readers should be able to do the math from here).

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:10 | 2554040 Seer
Seer's picture

Someone apparently doesn't understand the concepts of finiteness; that or the effects of China's meltdown on Australia and (or) Canada.  Clearly there's a LOT of work to be done...

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:33 | 2553679 potlatch
potlatch's picture

I am not nearly as "invested" as many here are, but for years, I have wondered, why is anyone believing in anything that is happening in China?  It is a totalitarian military state, with a vast propaganda and information control system.


Why was this ever touted as an "investment hotspot"


Always sounded like just another country to pour money into short-term, to only have all the records reset when the state is ultimately collapsed and/or colapses itself.


Chicoms are going to make Madoff look like an honest broker.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:11 | 2553754 reader2010
reader2010's picture

its been a great 30+ year run. but, saddly, nothing lasts forever.  you aint seen nothin yet. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:20 | 2554084 Seer
Seer's picture

'Why was this ever touted as an "investment hotspot"'

Kind of tells you what the entire premise of "investing" is really about, doesn't it?

Unless based on sustainable practices, NOTHING is going to last.

Madoff was merely an offering.  China is nothing more than a clumsy teenager.  The U.S., as I keep telling my wife (she likes to brag that the Philippines are the bastion of corruption), is where the greatest corruption is to be found, it's where there's the greatest concentration of "wealth." (how the hell can you top "reserve currency status built on NOTHING"?  China is full of amateurs)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:39 | 2554162 moskov
moskov's picture

So US credibility is based on what? You can't even fund your own bonds.

What a pathetic joke

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:59 | 2554494 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Bad as it is, most people want dollars over rubles though.

Sun, 06/24/2012 - 04:40 | 2555279 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

Duh, US credibility is based on the fact that they can fund their own bonds. Why the fuck do you think Wilson let the Fed issue banknotes to the citizens? It sets up the necessary node in the circular funding ponzi, while both parties get theirs. What lacks credibility is not the US, or their shit-Treasuries getting a bid, it is the FRN, co-opting the name "dollar," that risks global doubt over time. Get it straight, the trade is not TBT, but PHYZZZZ.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:54 | 2554213 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"So... It turns out that our lying economists are now accusing their lying economists of lying."

I think 2 negatives = two lying bastards telling the truth about the other lying bastards.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:13 | 2554280 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

So, what you're saying is if a man who is known to always lie tells you, "I'm telling you the truth, the economy is doing great", he must be lying.  But that means he's telling the truth.  Yet he always lies.  Oh, the contiidictions of modern set theory!  In short, he's telling the truth if, and only if, he's lying.

Full disclosure:  I'm short FXI via puts.  So, I trust that the Chinese will always lie-set theory inconsistencies be damned.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 17:17 | 2554538 They Tried to S...
They Tried to Steal My Gold's picture

China is the master of rehypothecation - derivatively speaking.....


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:03 | 2553482 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

The real answer is to tune out all politicians. Better yet, hang them all and start over.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:19 | 2553516 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

no fucking shit the sinkhole of the planet is lying! i welcome the great global purge, but afterwards will there really be much progress? i hope so, but only after this immanent crash.....

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:01 | 2553483 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

MF Global.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:01 | 2553484 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

China is the US!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:14 | 2553634 XitSam
XitSam's picture

All your China belong to US! Or is it the other way?

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:23 | 2553651 prains
prains's picture


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:34 | 2553682 potlatch
potlatch's picture

Chian is what happens when an entire state functions like teh Goldman Sachs

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:04 | 2553490 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Fortunately for all of us, Spain and Italy have been giving us the truth and a couple a hundred billion euros is all they need to fix everything.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:21 | 2553521 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

Chinese fortune cookie:  Panda's eat green shoots

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:12 | 2553630 Seer
Seer's picture

Queue the slaughter (sacrifice) of Pandas...

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:45 | 2553705 potlatch
potlatch's picture

Pandas and the bamboo they eat grow like kudzu if you are not very careful.  Fortunately, no one, absolutely one, destroys common household and landscaping pests, like the US of fuckin A.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:37 | 2554155 Seer
Seer's picture

Exactly!  "Solve" the "problem" by introducing a completely different problem!

“The chief cause of problems is solutions.”

- Eric Sevareid

BTW - I'd heard that Kudzu has some pretty good protein content to it.  If I lived in Kudzu country I'd be wielding goats, and teaching cows to browse it... cheap food source.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:39 | 2553691 cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

Economists don't lie. They are flat earth society members who make calculations based on their world view. Its not a science or math its a weirdo club like the Catholic Church. Lying requires them knowing the truth...which is.impossible since they have no.clue what is going on. These guys think a depression is a bad recession. A recession is a business cycle. A depression is a self inflicted collapse of the financial ponzi mechanism. Whoopsie.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:47 | 2553711 potlatch
potlatch's picture

or, a depression is what it looks and feels like as the ponzi rearranges its dimensions or recollects itself.  There is always that, ya know.  I would be very surprised if things got more out of hand than a simply further conventional war involving ships, planes, troops, etc.



Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:39 | 2554163 Seer
Seer's picture

"Economists" are PAID LIARS, period!  In a world without corruption (not gonna happen- power corrupts!) they'd be providing accurate information on how we're chewing up the planet...

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:05 | 2553750 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Where the "L" is silent.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:49 | 2553459 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Financial analysts should stop analyzing all the fake numbers and start drinking tea for the tea leaf prophecies. Results will be more in accordance with reality.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:53 | 2553468 kensdad
kensdad's picture

In the U.S. we don't falsify, we just "tweak" the economic model to get the desired outcome.  That way the ivory tower economists can sleep at night.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:54 | 2553469 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

Wo ai ni!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:13 | 2554412 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Chi seen ahh!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:55 | 2553471 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

This is all just B(l)S

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:39 | 2553559 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

I suppose calling another a liar doesn't make one a saint. BLS, Fed, Green Shoots, CPI, PPI, Beige book .............

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:00 | 2553473 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

False realities, regardless of how persistently supported, eventually collapse into their own gravity field and create a black hole.

Rising Gold prices and flabby fiat are usually the first indicators of an increasing gravity well distortion.

Beam me up Scotty. The third mud ball from the sun has no intelligent life forms to speak of. :>)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:12 | 2553505 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I don't know CD.. .. I think there are some pretty intelligent people who frequent the Hedge.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:22 | 2553515 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Agreed. Now if only we could find the courage to relocate to another mud ball we might have a fighting chance.

Of course......before we left we would need to purge the ship's bilge with chlorine gas to kill the inevitable stowaway sociopathic cockroaches who also dream of greener (mud ball) pastures. :>) 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:34 | 2553547 Bob
Bob's picture

Did you see Ratigan's last show yesterday, CD?  I kept thinking CD would really appreciate this

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:41 | 2553563 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I did not. But thanks to that Interwebby thingy I still can.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:02 | 2553618 Bob
Bob's picture

Most particularly the "Exit Interview" portion of the show.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:34 | 2553675 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Just did. It seems there will be more of Dylan Ratigan coming down the pike. Good for him. While his proposed project is a work in progress, and still not fully formed, it seems Dylan feels that action speaks louder than words. Bravo!

I liked the part where he explained that once you understand your goal (even if you don't know how to accomplish it) and you realize that what you're doing now is, or will, prevent you from realizing your goal, then the decision to stop what you are doing now and turn towards your goal is easy. So true.

The Big Lie we are told, one that is hammered home to try and convince us of the futility of trying to change the system, is that since we don't have the way forward figured out to the nth degree, we can't even begin.

I call Bullshit and so does Dylan.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:46 | 2553709 Seer
Seer's picture

And Ratigan panders to "veterans."  And, watching the video posted in the other link, he then hands off to one of the biggest fucking liars for the elites out there- Chris Matthews (Hardball*)!

* I stopped watching TV altogether after realizing that Matthews was no more than a wolf in sheep's' clothing, back when he was pretending to not support the ME wars.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:58 | 2553737 Bob
Bob's picture

Agreed, Mathews is an insufferably shrill shill for the Dimocrat Party. He's no buddy to Ratigan, I'm sure.

Yeah, vets . . . well, you can't go off on every hypocritical/conflicted/compromised group or you'll soon find yourself in a world of one (yourself), and he won't measure up either. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:52 | 2553724 Bob
Bob's picture

The Big Lie we are told, one that is hammered home to try and convince us of the futility of trying to change the system, is that since we don't have the way forward figured out to the nth degree, we can't even begin.

Or, if changing a hopelessly corrupt system is, for a number of reasons, realistically impossible, we can't do anything about the problems we're expecting "the system" to fix. 

Sure sounded familiar, alright.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:41 | 2553693 Seer
Seer's picture

All I can think of is Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy.

I believe the REAL test is survival, and if that is the case then it really is a matter of whether we can figure out how to be sustainable where we are, or whether we should realize that the model is to always be looking to move on to other "worlds," knowing, of course, that we will always trash our current environment, thus requiring relocation.  In either case there's a limit to how many can fit on the "ship" ("ship" being the literal or the figurative, as in the earth).

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:11 | 2554273 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Oh, CD, many have the courage. But, but…

The only survivor of Nostromo in Alien 33 years ago (now why is that number kept popping up) thought she could get away but didn’t.  And now the only survivor of Prometheus thought she should go forward to question the demi-gods (real-ly? ) why they created long ago, and now want to terminate us?

Do we deserve <only> this mud ball, along with the sociopathic cockroaches?

I say no one is likely to get away from this mud ball “Scot”-free.  Ask Ridley, he knows.

Paging Scotty, Spock, Kirk. Help!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:23 | 2553523 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Sadly, though, few of them seem to be in positions of great enough influence to change anything of consequence. Or not, yet, anyway. If the idiots that be can avoid blowing up the world for a while, that might change. For damn sure, the bullshit we're doing now isn't working for more than a tiny minority of over-rich assholes and their lapdogs.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:31 | 2553542 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

A question for those pretty intelligent people on ZH is How do you distinguish a stockpile of coal caused by people unwilling to report a slowdown and one that is  preparing for the supply disruptions caused by war?

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:46 | 2553574 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

You start shooting at them and see if they are ready to shoot back right away. If it takes them a while, they weren't planning to fuck you, but unfortunately they now are.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:01 | 2553612 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

So the ghost towns that they built are really decoy cities and not uber Keynes?  And if they bomb the decoy cities they are safe.  And if they bomb the real ones they move to the decoy ones.  And if they bomb them all they move back to their rice paddys and retire.  Fool proof. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:19 | 2553644 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

My reckoning is that the ghost towns, duplicate bridges and new roads that merely created links parallel to existing ones but by a different route were basically just Keynesian follies. But... the Chinese I've met are mostly pretty smart. I'm sure it did occur to someone that having redundant housing / industrial sites, spare transport capacity - and thus more places to hide stuff you don't want bombed - couldn't be a bad thing, if it ever came to it. Plus it keeps the peasants busy and stops them thinking too much about their shitty pay and conditions. And the fact that there ain't enough pussy to go around, thanks to years of 'planned parenthood'.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:57 | 2553844 michael_engineer
michael_engineer's picture

Suspect that Chinese ghost cities are mostly hype designed to make the Chinese look crazy productive or crazy strong or crazy like a fox mostly done for some PR spin reasons by somebody. Consider that most new subdivisions look like ghost cities until they are complete and people are allowed to move in. Is there any credible scientific analysis or reporting that can confirm ghost cities of any quantity?

Chernobyl became a ghost city but there was a reason for that.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:52 | 2554206 Seer
Seer's picture

In China the govt tells everyone what do to.  In the U.S. it's Wall Street...  and Wall Street, in its infinite way of hiding corruption, decided that the best way to run the scam was to "distribute" risk.

I recall a quote from a former soviet citizen KGB-er that folks in Soviet Russia knew that it was all B.S., but that the U.S. is much more polished and the people don't see it.

Edward Bernays was 100% an American product...

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:52 | 2553587 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

May I suggest that it is not an either/or question, but rather a little of both.

It is clear to many, even if not uttered in their out-loud voice, that hard times are coming. Even if they are the root cause of their coming hard times. So they, along with us, prepare for the inevitable.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:58 | 2553605 geoffb
geoffb's picture

If China is lying to us about its economic output could it possibly be that our military is lying to us about China's military capacity just like they lied about the Soviet Union's or Iraq's?? Things that make you go hmmm.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:11 | 2553629 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

They certainly spent years bigging-up China's nuclear capabilities. Before the internet came along, we were led to believe, largely by letting us imagine it to be the case by alluding to it in the media, that China had a big arsenal of ICBMs - not as many as Russia, but still a whole hell of a lot. Turns out that wasn't the case at all; they had a few hundred warheads and most of those were on short and intermediate range launchers.

Still plenty for the job, of course. But 'massive arsenal' does a much better job of frightening the plebs into keeping their heads down and putting more power into the hands of government than 'about 30 that have the range to hit us, which may or may not have reliable launch vehicles and guidance systems of dubious accuracy'. Though Clinton changed that last factor, I believe, with his technology transfers - they're probably as accurate as US, UK, French or Russian missiles these days.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:18 | 2554421 geoffb
geoffb's picture


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:20 | 2554427 geoffb
geoffb's picture

"letting us imagine it to be the case by alluding to it in the media". This statement sums up the last 30-40 years of this country's political MO. I gave you a plus for that.

Economic capacity is required to make war, and China's only economic capacity is the US. There will never be a war while that's the case and if its ever not the case China would have no reason to wage war on us. Its as big a dead end as the idea of an Iranian war. Just not going to happen. It just a fantasy concocted to keep the military industrial complex relevant and a prime example of the above sentence. IMO, we could cut virtually everything but our Navy, Coast Guard and National Guard and our sovereignty would remain as safe as it is now. (BTW, I'm perfectly ok with the use of aggressive war for protection) Now, our own political and monetary system, that's the real threat to our sovereignty.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 17:03 | 2554505 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Isn't it the other way round? US cannot make an advanced weapons system without Chinese electronics at this point. Might be those electronics contain a way of making planes crash, missiles to be retargeted,etc already. Even the parts that look American made are sometimes counterfeit Chinese ones.


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 19:16 | 2554749 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Heh heh.  Well, hanging around here you should understand a common 'Merkin attitude. 

If them Chineses ever stop buildin' us our widgets, we'll nuke 'em until they get back to work.

It is speculated that cro-magnon man may have hunted the neanderthals to extinction. 

If that's not the IDEAL basis for a self-fulfilling prophecy, what would be?

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:27 | 2553659 Seer
Seer's picture

And, would stockpiling contribute to the reasons FOR war?  Haves and Havenots...

At any rate, Australia is going to be squeezed pretty soon.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:52 | 2553828 monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

It has definitely been getting tighter down under.

Property has been getting smashed. Melbourne clearance rates at all time lows and only worsening with regards to auction clearance rates.

And I still think we ain't seen nothing yet...

Rude awakening in 3, 2, 1...

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 12:18 | 2553766 11b40
11b40's picture

War with who?  The very last thing that China wants is a war with us.  Their military would be decimated in about 2 days.  Same with Russia...but proxy more wars are both possible, and many think likely.

The only defense against our air/missle/drone delivery systems is the psychological defense of Mutually Assurred Descruction if things go nuclear.  MAD, as it has been for 60 years.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:06 | 2553868 michael_engineer
michael_engineer's picture

With the planet!! The planet has been short changing us on its natural resources recently . The planet has gotten stingy.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:43 | 2554174 11b40
11b40's picture

No question we are on a planet with finite resources, and stockpiling certain things makes sense to a degree.  If the world's economy heads into a depression, however, big piles of coal, copper, etc., won't help much.  They will be wishing they had filled silos with grain,and would quickly realize they should have stockpiled more fertilizer.  They have a demand economy and millions of hungry people to feed. When demand collapses, just wait and see what happens in China.  There may be war, but it it could easily be internal. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:07 | 2554261 Seer
Seer's picture

"There may be war, but it it could easily be internal. "

I'd say that most wars are about controlling internal opposition.  One's own population needs to be dealt with by "procuring" needed resources or by forcing them (like people are going to volunteer, regardless of whether it's in their own self-interest to do so!) to reduce their needs/demands.  And, really, the closest threats are really what makes the most sense to attend to...

As H.L. Mencken informed us, govt's primary purpose is to keep us chasing hobgoblins.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 18:11 | 2554651 laomei
laomei's picture

China has more grain reserves than any other country period... seriously, we've got a solid 18+ months in reserve at all times as well as a distribution network for it all that was put into place about 6 years ago.  The vast vast majority of our food is also locally produced.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 22:47 | 2555052 11b40
11b40's picture

'Zat right?  And you know this how?  Official government stats?

I will concede the locally produced part, however.  The peasants toil in the fields much as they always have.  Hard, manual labor is the way of life in the countryside.  Now, however, China has much of the same problem we will have if things blow up.  So many have made the trek from the farm to the cities.  Anything that disrupts the food distribution system quickly becomes a big problem in the cities. 

Add to that the fact that many Chinese devote a large % of their income to food.  Food inflation is one of the greatest fears of both the government and the people, and so is scarcity and famine.  Tell me agian what that one child only policy is all about?


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 17:07 | 2554512 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

China's next expansion will be into any resource containing ocean area they can make any sort of claim. Already in disputes with Japan and Phillipinnes. They don't have to start a war to get control of these areas. They just need enough of a military capability to intimidate their neighbors. They already have that. Also they have considerable economic muscle. For example, they cut off rare earth shipments to Japan when they were having a dispute with them. Unlikely US will intervene at this point. Eventually they will make the surrounding countries vassals that pay them tribute in some form like it used to be.



Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:16 | 2553508 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Im workin on it Captain!! 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:21 | 2553520 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

It is an interesting thing to ponder, how the 'tail' of the intelligence curve attempts to manage the middle.  As we approach 10 billion, the ratios hold, but what of the absolute numbers? 

Plus, it sure ain't no fat tail (at the top end). 

Plus, some proportion of the 'smart' are trying to kill us all whether they admit it or not (psychopathic/bad incentives).

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:45 | 2553571 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

No, it's the third ROCK from the sun:

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:57 | 2553603 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I don't know about you, but where I am there's nothing but mud. Maybe it's caued by my frequent urination? Mom always warned me to immediately set up a septic system on whatever mud ball I landed on.

<sigh> I guess Mom was right. :>)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:10 | 2554269 Seer
Seer's picture

When life serves you mud buy a comfortable pair of boots! (and don't piss about it! :-) )

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:37 | 2553961 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Hey, CD, "rising gold prices" is a false indicator (as is falling gold prices).  Just look at what the Mint sells from month to month.   Price is a delusion.

The U.S. Mint had a sales report. They sold 10,500 ounces of gold eagles...1,500 one-ounce 24K gold buffaloes...and 100,000 silver eagles. Month-to-date the mint has sold 43,000 ounces of gold eagles...7,500 one-ounce 24K gold buffaloes...and 2,075,000 silver eagles.

The U. S. doesn't care what the "citizen" does about gold or silver.  It really is just a metal to them.  Seigniorage and all that.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:23 | 2554042 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Interesting. I'll feed that to the flying spaghetti monster and see what comes out the other end. ;)

P.S. - I still think flabby fiat is an indicator, but that's just me.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:48 | 2554188 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The Flying Spaghetti Monster has been busy these days.  Might take Him/Her/It a while to process your request.  I think the RBA banking "delay" has been the latest project.

Anywho, if there were stats on private sector sales of PMs you (and I) would be astounded.  Remember that the Mint is buying by the retail sector who just doesn't know where to go (i.e.: whom to trust) to get their PMs.  All the talk about "We buys yer gold fer the most money" being a harbinger is all wrong.  Offset the purchases by those in-the-know and the motel room sales and we'd find a huge transfer of PMs to the individual.   Again I say, the gov't could give a crap either way.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:57 | 2553474 NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

Government officials telling lies, who would have thought such a thing could happen, thank goodness we live in the USA, our officials would never tell lies. <SARC>

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 09:59 | 2553478 BadKiTTy
BadKiTTy's picture

The great thing about a good con is that those who are conned are so 'invested' in the BS they have bought. It is far easier to get yourself to believe in the lie than it is to face the truth.

"you want the truth?....... You can't handle the truth!"

Because once we know, really know, it means we have to do something.

Easier to fret over X Factor/America's Got Talent/The Biggest Loser (which is us by the way not the fatties on the box)

just my 2c


Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:00 | 2553480 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Just like all the rest of the countries in the world, every single one racing to the bottom in an attempt to rape, pillage and plunder as much as they can before the sheeple wake up. Wake up sheeple!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:09 | 2553497 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Sheeple are awake, but there is a problem that they have to get together to do something. In this world of I and me and mine, it's inconvenient to get together. Besides, there are so many sport events, Holywood movies, cool gadgets and reality shows.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:28 | 2553534 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

"Besides, there are so many sport events, Holywood movies, cool gadgets and reality shows."

Part of the reason why they are all still asleep.   

The sheep are not awake, for they choose not to be.  It's very easy to brush off the troubles of the day and go back to your gossip magazine and big gulp because someone else will 'deal with it' or it's all just a 'conspiracy'.  What is difficult is challenging your everyday thought process and asking 'why' or 'what if?'  Shift your paradigm. 

Waking up can be a chaotic and troublesome time in ones life.  You can and will break down, realizing that your entire world, the world that has been constructed around you, is nothing more than a veil - smoke and mirrors.  Nevermind that man behind the curtain! 

If the sheep were really, truly awake then I have to believe we would see a touch more unrest than we have over here in the states.  When the smoke finally clears and all the colors are truly shown it will be too late.  They know this, so they have your bunk turned down and ready at the nearest camp FEMA. 

You are correct in saying that "there is a problem that they have to get together to do something".  Spread the word, prepare, speak truths and hold yourself and everyone around you accountable.  Do what you can and do it now.  It begins and ends with us. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 10:46 | 2553554 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Paradoxically, the sheep should not come together ... they should separate, scatter, act as individuals! It will drive the globalist sheep dogs bananas!!!

If we (each European nation state, each US sovereign state, each 'Trans Pacific Partner', each member of the 'Union for the Mediterranean', etc) were each to go our separate ways for a little while ... then take stock of who owes whom and who can/can't pay ... then re-form such treaties and unions as the people of each state feel are in their interests and with as little centralised overhead as possible (ie. initially without the IMF, World Bank, WHO and WTO protecting the central banks, big pharma, big ag, big oil, etc) ... then we could re-float this sinking ship and move forward with building a new paradigm for the 21st century and beyond.

The old ruling class have spent nearly 200 years carefully and stealthily shepherding all the nation states into this big global ponzi ... yet we could tear it down in just a matter of months, and rebuild over the years ahead, with just a few catalysing states to set the ball rolling!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:00 | 2553610 t_kAyk
t_kAyk's picture

Right, I agree with you there.  We must disconnect ourselves from the matrix and let it crumble, but it is something that must be done on a grand scale, which would take some form of large coordinated effort, or at the very least a 'coming together' of ideas. 

Unfortunately so many sheep have been trained to attack those who speak of such.  Prepper!  Conspiracy nut-job!  Even as these people become more and more sick, see there family and friends lose their jobs and homes and discreetly have their freedoms stripped away, they would dare not bite the hand that feeds, the one that is ever reaching further to lul us into a slumber. 

We could do it in a matter of months, but it would take much longer for everyone to wake up. 

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:40 | 2553692 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I believe that America will get its wake up call within just a few more months (I have been predicting on here since early last year that the election will be cancelled and martial law will be imposed in Sep-Oct this year ... and I'm still fairly confident of that prediction - though it will have to be put off to a much later date if the European "Union" falls apart before then).

Interesting times dead ahead!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:20 | 2554297 Seer
Seer's picture

"I have been predicting on here since early last year that the election will be cancelled and martial law will be imposed in Sep-Oct this year"

YAWN... I was hearing this same "prediction" for the 2004 election.  Same old party politics rhetoric.

Really, think about it!  TPTB have their candidates, WTF would they need to hold such a coup during such an obvious "people's time?"  TPTB need to continue the illusion that the people are involved in The System; when it's clear that it is no longer the case then TPTB are going to be in for shit and no "declaration" is going to save their asses (their Praetorian Guard won't be there).

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 21:17 | 2554908 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You appear to be overlooking the objectives of the destruction of America!

If those objectives were simply to hang onto some cushy jobs in DC and funnel more taxpayer dollars into the pockets of some polititicians' familites, then you would be right to yawn. (Or maybe you just need more sleep?!).

If, however, the objective of the old European ruling class (of kings and bishops, in league with a monied aristocracy) is to take charge of the planet under a global government "for the planet's own good", then they must remove the thorn from their side of that "beacon on the hill" that just keeps encouraging innovation and other pesky upstart middle classes elsewhere to aspire to such annoying concepts as individual freedom, democracy, equality of opportunity, and the pursuit of happiness.

I do not see the current situation as simply a natural decline, but rather as a planned reaction to the initial formation of a group of independent-minded states outside the direct control of that ruling class.

I see every landmark political action in the US of the past 220 years -- from the reduction of the Articles of Confederation into a centralist Constitution, through the Civil War and the ensuing stripping of states' rights, to the formation of the FED and the ensuing debasement of the currency leading, finally, to 9-11 and the ensuing stripping of individual rights -- as a continuum with a single objective. The ruling class works on multi-generational (almost geologic!) timescales to ensure survival of their species in what they consider to be their rightful position.

Here is what an insider had to say, nearly 60 years ago, on the planned steps being taken. See if you think that any of them have not come to pass:

1. Greatly expanded government spending for every conceivable means of getting rid of ever larger sums of American money as wastefully as possible.

2. Higher and then much higher taxes.

3. An increasingly unbalanced budget, despite the higher taxes.

4. Wild inflation of our currency.

5. Government controls of prices, wages, and materials, supposedly to combat inflation.

6. Greatly increased socialistic controls over every operation of our economy and every activity of our daily lives This is to be accompanied, naturally and automatically by a correspondingly huge increase in the size of our bureaucracy, and in both the cost and reach of our domestic government.

7. Far more centralization of power in Washington, and the practical elimination of our state lines.

8. The steady advance of federal aid to and control over our educational system, leading to complete federalization of our public education.

9. A constant hammering into the American consciousness of the horror of modern warfare.

10. Consequent willingness of the American people to allow the steps of appeasement by our government, which amount to a piecemeal surrender of the rest of the free world, and of the United States itself.


Anyway, we won't have to wait much longer to see who is right. In the meantime, keep on yawning!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:43 | 2554357 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"everyone" is never going to "wake up" dude - stop waiting for your herd to turn with you, get on with taking stock, and care, of yourself.

everyone bleating on and on about "the sheeple" and their distractions are also stuck chasing tails in a repetition rut, when action is all that matters at this point.

the "sheeple" will be watching the London "zion" games, and they'll be fretting over not having access to their online bank accounts, and they'll be worrying over the price of gas vs. where to drive for firework games on the 4th. . .

what will YOU be doing?

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:01 | 2553613 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

True on an individual basis, as well. If people and communities started running as many of their own affairs as they practically could, without asking for help or money from above, the 'state' would start to shrivel. They gained power and grew ever bigger by convincing us that we needed them. Time to show them that we don't.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:24 | 2554305 Seer
Seer's picture

It's about centralized power, something exhibited also by big corporations.  Though, however, I believe that big corporations would cease without govt propping them up.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:38 | 2553688 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

In other words we have to come together in deciding we have to go individual. That's what Daniel Quinn suggests in his book "Ishmael". Detach from the system. I'm not sure it's feasible on a grand scale. In an organism there's only one central point of thinking and deciding, otherwise the system collapses. In a human body trillions of cells are working seemingly independently, but only a cluster of cells are "trained" for decision making. If kidneys made their own ways and arms and legs their own, the coordination would be lost. Our problem is that the brain that's leading us is apparently rabid.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 11:55 | 2553729 i-dog
i-dog's picture

In fact, the human body is a co-operative collection of organisms, each working in their own self-interest and autonomously. Complex organs can be kept alive simply by passing nutrients (blood) through them. The brain has evolved some regulatory control functions, and our decisions and actions are more rational than those of lesser animals, but most activity within the body is accomplished through decentralised sensors and chemical messaging in which the brain plays no part at all while the body goes about breathing and eating and seeking comfort.

There is much that society could, and should, learn from the self-organising and emergent properties of complex fractal systems like the bodies of ants and humans.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 16:53 | 2553742 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

I still say that the "brain" is rabid and needs to be transplanted.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:42 | 2553976 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

So, you're saying that human beings are just portable pleasure palaces.   The groupings of micro-organisms that lived in close proximity symbiotically simply grew an enveloping skin and some mode of transportation.   Right out of some science fiction writer's brain.   I like it!

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 13:51 | 2553994 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Reality can be even stranger and more bizzare than that. I like that story too. It's more romantic than materialism.

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 14:34 | 2554142 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

It's time to watch Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, once again.  ;-)

Sat, 06/23/2012 - 15:28 | 2554313 Seer
Seer's picture

Actually, humans are just a means of keeping bacteria alive...  And here is was that WE thought we were the ones running The Show!

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