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UK Vs France: You Decide Who Is Worse

Tyler Durden's picture


The latest scandalous childish spat in Europe is not between some hardcore religious fanatics in the former Yugoslavia, but between the two countries that traditionally (at least in post-war Europe) have been at the forefront of sense and stability: France and the UK, where things got out of joint after David Cameron vetoed the recent G-27 attempt to bailout French and German banks on the taxpayer's dime, quickly followed up by a media war, and culminating with the idiotic announcement by Bank of France head Christian Noyer who said it is not France who has to be downgraded, but the UK. For our thoughts on this ridiculous statement, which merely confirms how clueless Europe currently is, see here. We will say no more about who is more hopeless between the two - it is pretty clear that in a global coordinated ponzi, everyone is only as strong as the weakest link, especially among the AAA-club: the fact that a central bank head does not, is grounds for great concern... so instead we will leave it up to our readers. Below, courtesy of Reuters, we present a tableau of the key economic dataseries for the two countries, and benchmarked against Europe's strongest economy: Germany. So is Cameron right in saying he is protecting the UK taxpayers by keeping them isolated from the European maelstrom, or is Noyer correct when he says that the UK is far worse off? Readers decide.


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Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:00 | 1984218 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:04 | 1984239 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Where the food is ugly and the women taste badly.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984250 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:08 | 1984272 Manthong
Manthong's picture

OT but interesting:

CNBC: Gold Sheds 'Can't Lose' Status: Now, No One Wants It
That’s the word from the mainstream so it must be true.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:29 | 1984360 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Excellent. My truck will be backing up in januari. Please keep up the efforts and continue the fairy tale please?

Really... I'm all for correct information, but if people still believe this shit, they WANT to believe it.

Financial death becomes then financial suïcide. Not my problem.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:16 | 1985386 trav7777
trav7777's picture

well, shit that didn't take long.  So the shoeshine boy is gonna say sell gold now?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 20:12 | 1985589 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Jamie & Lloyd: Amerika's Shoeshine Boys

If it wasn't for fraud and theft as Wall Street's business model... Jamie 'n Lloyd would be shining shoes...

Gimme a shine, Jamie...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 21:36 | 1985687 sqz
sqz's picture

Both UK and France will be downgraded, though for very different reasons. It is also irrelevant, at least in the case of the UK, until after Eurozone breakup and the short/medium-term consequences!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 02:47 | 1986182 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I was under the impression (too drunk to look it up now) that the UK's debt is of much longer maturity... that must count for something.

It's having to roll over the short-duration debt that's crushing the PIIGS, is it not?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 11:54 | 1986923 Mr Shush
Mr Shush's picture

The longer maturity on UK debt is a factor, but I would say it's less important than the demonstrated willingness of the BoE to print, print, print, as compared to the ECB's reluctance. The weakness of the UK position will manifest itself in high inflation, not a default, and that's beyond the remit of the ratings agencies, who explicitly judge only the likelihood of a "credit event".

Between the devil and the deep blue sea, it may be best to stick with Norway.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:39 | 1984400 pine_marten
pine_marten's picture

Time will tell.  Gold at 700 is a possibility.  Lots of real wealth lost in that event. 

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:57 | 1984469 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture



Ze Celts, William ze Conquerer and ze Anglos and ze Saxons had it all wrong.
They should've stayed away from Barbaria!

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 07:42 | 1986343 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

IMHO it is unlikely that we'll see serious shortage of money as long as socialist Euro-democracies exist.. I remain long PMs and miners, in fact I added to my positions 2 days ago.
I expect some kind of QE in the US by end of January.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984258 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Hhmm.  Wonder if their stats are any less manipulated than ours?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:28 | 1984354 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture



Desolee monsieur Cameron, mister Noyer is right.

Osborne 0 : 1 Noyer

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:42 | 1984418 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

So this is what we have become asking ourselves "whose shit smells better".  All of us are swimming in shit. Relax and enjoy the implosion whereever you are.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:55 | 1984462 Manthong
Thu, 12/15/2011 - 21:13 | 1985717 Seer
Seer's picture

To borrow from a favorite saying: A battle to be the best looking horse at the glue factory.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:57 | 1984467 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

Goldman did the biggest manipulation of all times with Greece.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:18 | 1984315 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

HH, that is completely disgusting.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:50 | 1984423 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Which one?  Cuisine Anglais like spotted dick (below), or cunnilingus anglais?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:54 | 1984460 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

Well put!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:54 | 1984727 Dugald
Dugald's picture

That is NOT spotted dick, aka rolly poley pudding...looks like cake with custard.....God damn..if we can't have truth in pudding, then fuktus cactus we truely are....

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:13 | 1984827 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



...yet, maybe there are some areas where it is better to not claim expertise?  At least you did not say, "That is NOT true...Winehouse snatch tastes like butterscotch!"

Sat, 12/17/2011 - 12:49 | 1989835 mutt
mutt's picture

bread pudding; a claimed speciality by jamaicans, brummies, welsh...

creme anglais done proper-like is a real nice sauce

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:01 | 1984480 Hard1
Hard1's picture

UK macro numbers look a bit worse (both are fucked up), but consider the following:

-Cost of aiding your Euro neighbours:  2-3 Trillion Euro

-Having your own currency and the ability to monetize your debt:  Priceless

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:56 | 1985105 TK7936
TK7936's picture

The Eurozone can monetize there debt they just havent done it yet.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 12:20 | 1987010 Mr Shush
Mr Shush's picture

But France isn't the Eurozone, and the Germans really don't like the idea of monetization. We know the BoE will print if it feels slightly bored on a Thursday lunchtime; the ECB, not so much.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 20:25 | 1985618 johny2
johny2's picture

the argument of the currency devaluation being better than default on debt makes little sense, like two drunks arguing who is going to have worse hangover tommorow. They are both the same thing, as both british and french people are going to find out more or less at the same time.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:10 | 1984284 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:57 | 1984468 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Germany? Meh, I give up!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:25 | 1984915 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

The Three Stooges seems appropriate.

Mo seems like Germany, Larry is France and Curley is Great Britain.


LARRY:  All for one!

MOE: One for All

CURLEY:  Every man for himself!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:22 | 1984332 Alien Invader
Alien Invader's picture

Let's see the US of A for comparison, oh wait forgot we are comparing AAA nations.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:52 | 1984448 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

Who is worse?  The UK, of course.  Those snobs don't know how to cooperate with anyone until you threaten to remove their genitals.   There is no reason for them to have anything to say about it anyway, since they refused to join the euro in the first place.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:43 | 1984667 huanjo
huanjo's picture

Sorry, it's in our nature. We've been doing it for the last 600 years or so. Europe has constantly been trying to force their ways upon us, but we have the best "don't take no shit" attitude in Europe, so that has never happened.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:48 | 1984687 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

And when you get into a jam with that attitude, you could always come crying to the US.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:57 | 1985330 huanjo
huanjo's picture

Well, 300 years ago the US was British, and today you have inherited that trait of the British culture - the US don't take shit either.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:18 | 1985392 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the UK:  where white people have so little balls that they strip down when black people riot.

Where is Napier's "cultural sensitivity" program when you need it?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:08 | 1985365 smiler03
smiler03's picture

RMolineaux - Putain!

Concorde & Eurotunnel?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:03 | 1984503 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

It is probable that Noyer knows exactly what the true situation is, but like all central bankers, he makes these statements in an attempt to reassure the public.  The French public, understandably, has a built in skeptism about anything the conceited Brits have to say.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:01 | 1984225 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

aig lehman brothers mf global madoff



Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:02 | 1984230 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

French fried..

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:19 | 1984322 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

The UK has it's own Sterling-France is using something called EURO... ça c'est la différence..

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:35 | 1984387 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

no because if one goes so do them all

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:03 | 1984234 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

They both look like shit

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:02 | 1984235 0ppenheimer
0ppenheimer's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:03 | 1984238 gjp
gjp's picture

Definitely the UK.  Take away the fraudelent City of London and what's left?  At least the French have some industrial companies and wine and cheese.  What does England export exactly?  I can't believe their current account is in balance.  Must be something fishy there ...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:13 | 1984298 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:19 | 1984317 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

and Haggis.  Which more than cancels the Scotch. 

"Haggis is a dish containing sheep's 'pluck' (heart, liver and lungs), minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally simmered in the animal's stomach for approximately three hours"

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:19 | 1984321 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

That's not even their Whiskey, it belongs to the Scotts and Welsh. Irish Whiskey is better anyways.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:33 | 1984376 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

mmm the old black bush

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:30 | 1984613 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

Whisky. The real stuff from Scotland. Slange var.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:18 | 1984316 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Great musicians, bad ass cars, and mediocre actors..

you know you may have a point...

who gives a fuck?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:25 | 1984349 campag
campag's picture

RollRoyce jet engines / autos Mini /Jags

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:32 | 1984371 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

You mean BMW and Ford?

Still, Ze English are toast!


And there you have the reason for Cameron's boyish behaviour: They can't pay for it anymore (and according to recent predictions by the Exchequer (a french word) its getting much worse in 2012) !!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:45 | 1985047 falak pema
falak pema's picture

how come your boobs point outwards, have they been riding horses like those bow legged Mongols whose knees point outwards and feet point inwards?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:38 | 1985262 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Come a little closer, nothing points outwards except for your balls! *lol*


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:11 | 1985372 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Jaguar is Tata, not Ford

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:32 | 1984373 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Mini=BMW=German, sorry dude you need to dyr

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:06 | 1984497 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Huh ? Mini is British not German.

edit: Okay it is German now after all.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:07 | 1984520 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Watch your words: Bavarian attack imminent.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:12 | 1984538 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

nope been german for has no car manufacturers left...remember the black hole of british leyland, british steel and british coal? now the uk has the black hole of the banks, RBS and Lloyds.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:20 | 1985399 trav7777
trav7777's picture

most bentleys=VW Phaeton

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 00:01 | 1985991 Ivan the Russian
Ivan the Russian's picture

in the same way that Heckler & Koch is now British.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 16:48 | 1988107 Mountainview
Mountainview's picture

That's why they sold guns to Lybia?

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 00:02 | 1985993 Ivan the Russian
Ivan the Russian's picture

That's a lot of MP5s

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:30 | 1984357 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

The City of London corp makes Russian corruption look like petty crime! Occupy The London Stock Exchange (eating French cheese & drinking French wine)!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:22 | 1984567 onebir
onebir's picture

" I can't believe their current account is in balance.  Must be something fishy there..."

Just a collapse in domestic demand (which is why they have the weakest growth and the BoE is able to forecast inflation falling back to target and be taken vaguely seriously. Otherwise UK yields would probably explode, like France but due to inflationary expectations.)


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:03 | 1984774 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Well just as a start you could check out the arms industry..and work your way exports are probably near the bottom....

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:59 | 1985123 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

import minus exports


guess which one has fallen off a cliff


hint real wages declining at 5% pa

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 20:01 | 1985557 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture

quality street

and central banks

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 02:40 | 1986172 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...What does England export exactly?

England is one of the major exporters of the Bankster empire.

As long as the UK keeps supplying men and materiel for every US 'liberation' around the globe, the Fed will continue to buy UK gilts through anonymous blind trusts, keeping yields absurdly low.

The UK's holiday from reality ends... when the Fed does.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984241 Dcheeth2
Dcheeth2's picture

No surrender monkeys here.

Blighty all the way to prosperity at the behest of those Gallic inbreds. 

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:06 | 1984243 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Noyer you crazy ECB govna. Trying to bring down UK with ya ha.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:45 | 1984672 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Nope the Brits city started the shenanigans. This is late knee jerk to City mega corruption and rip off.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:04 | 1984246 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Sorry, any macro economist would easily see that France loses in the contest against the UK.  I guess that was the point of Tyler's posting this.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984247 socratesplus
socratesplus's picture

france, but only because it can't control its own currency

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:40 | 1984626 falak pema
falak pema's picture

France has one thing  going for it, its country side; it'll survive the french bureaucracy. One good joke from history :

The current French Sarkozist government known for its racialist slant prevalent today leading to next year's elections, to fight off rival Marine Le Pen's far right break-through; (she is Tea party type, red neck, traditionalist politician); has a Home Minister who attended a Sarkozy party gathering where a local stalwart was of Arab origin. And somebody cracked a joke saying, "You have Arabs in your party?" The Home Minister replied, "We have one; its becomes a problem when there are more", and the whole congregation cracked up. The media got that repartee and it hit the tweeter and NET and now they were all shitting in their pants that a private comment got "spun" on the NET. To laugh off his comment, the Home Minister said to the press, "Its a local joke, I'm from Auvergne region. And we make these jokes in that region." Obvious side stepping, he got nailed for it.

I looked up History. At the battle of Alesia fort, Caesar's greatest triumph 60000 legionaries beat off 120-180000 "Arverni" Celts, making the 60 000 celts inside fortifications surrender, having driven off those others who came in support. After the battle, his supreme campaign success of Gallic wars, his General LAbienus asked Caesar,  "What do we do with our captives?" Caesar replied "They are brave individually, but as shown by this battle, they are useless when many. So we have a problem with discipline. One is fine, many is a problem." Labienus retained the lesson. Each Celtic battalion had at its head a Roman Centurion. 

No wonder the sons of those Arverni, the Auvergnats of today, have retained the lesson like scalded cats 2000 years later. Now they love playing at Caesar saying to their "minions" : One is fine... ah, History repeats. But the cheese of Auvergne is very good as is their country side. Just kidding...its the elites, their mind set,  I don't like.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:10 | 1984809 Dugald
Dugald's picture

A nice snapshot of history, thank you...should be more of it!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:07 | 1985148 herewego...
herewego...'s picture

good read

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984255 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture



Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984256 Slipmeanother
Slipmeanother's picture

The UK debt tp GDP ratio is FAR worse when bank debt is included. UK taxpayers sunk UK pounds over 1 trillion which is counted as equity!---LMAO

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:22 | 1984570 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Well isn't the balance sheet of the big three French banks something like 400% of their national GDP?  (Too lazy to get the exact number).  They are both fucked by their banks.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:25 | 1984585 onebir
onebir's picture

Wouldn't the French debt/GDP ratio also be far worse, if the cost of recapitalising French banks were included..?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:05 | 1984257 youngman
youngman's picture

But France has more Muslims...the UK second..and Germany coming in a far me that is just as important

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:08 | 1984278 youngandhealthy
youngandhealthy's picture

to me U R as stupid as Ur as your look

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:39 | 1984401 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:51 | 1984443 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

YH, you may not understand the relevance of his observation quite yet but you will especially if you live in the London area while this all unwinds..

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:34 | 1984381 frenchie
frenchie's picture

but all have jews as ruling class...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:41 | 1984414 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Thats er the Zionists, I'm a Jew and if you want to be told what to do go buy some physical Au & Ag

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:31 | 1984615 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

And dont worry. Most of us know the difference.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 01:36 | 1986106 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Umm... no more than half do.... do a search for pogrom...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:06 | 1984260 transaccountin
transaccountin's picture

I'm shocked that the country with it's printer, the UK, has nearly 3 times the inflation.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:13 | 1984276 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



+ £100,000,000,000,000,000,000...


I've seen the future, I can't afford it.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:07 | 1984267 Misean
Misean's picture

In the words of Newt...not Gingrich..."It won't make any difference."

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:07 | 1984268 youngandhealthy
youngandhealthy's picture

UK big time

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:07 | 1984269 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Kyle Bass for Prez of the USA

Michael Burry for VP. 

Ron Paul: the Fed Chairman

Hugh Hendry for Treasurer

All the others we kick out: don't need a Congress anymore with this team.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:25 | 1984342 G_T_A_44
G_T_A_44's picture

President- Ron Paul


VP- J Ventura (whom would provide protection for Paul)


FED- Abolished


Treasurer - William Black


SEC/FINRA - Abolish- Start from scratch - the end of self-regulation. Self Reg never worked and never will.


535- Throw them all out


Retrieve the Constitution & BOR from the shredder.


Direct Democracy!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:44 | 1984670 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Like the Founders, somehow I don't think Dr. Paul cares much for the mob-rule d.b.a. "Direct Democracy."

BTW, the Constitution designed a republic specifically to avoid this danger they referred to as a tyranny of the minority (as the mob is never representative of the whole, nor even the majority, as then there'd be no need for a mob for enforcement, but instead would be viewed as convention).

Sat, 12/17/2011 - 13:20 | 1989897 mutt
mutt's picture

good, but bill Black as financial justice tsar

with approval to add names to the Pres's Naughty List of Financial Terrorists bound for Gitmo

or a pair of ivory handled colts...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:40 | 1984407 JailBank
JailBank's picture

Ron Paul's first act as FED close the doors and fire himself.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:46 | 1984678 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

He knows better than to simply close the door (someone else might reopen it). More likely, you'd see dozers, lots and lots of dozers. Then he'd have a fire-sale on marble.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:41 | 1984416 Cow
Cow's picture

Hire Nigel Farage for Press Secretary

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:14 | 1984277 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

All three Musketeers -- France, UK and Germany -- have to be downgraded (Germany by at least one notch, France and UK by at least two notches).

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:43 | 1984666 unky
unky's picture

Germany should be upgraded to triple A+ because its the economic powerhouse of europe

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:10 | 1984281 Hopium Dealer
Hopium Dealer's picture

France has more negros than the UK, so France.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:29 | 1984307 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

The more Kenyans the more prosperous.

Isn't that a well known fact?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:30 | 1984364 Hopium Dealer
Hopium Dealer's picture

Occupy Welfare Checks

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:53 | 1984452 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Umm, thats a race not a religious/political system, nice avatar stupid comment..

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:10 | 1984282 fgambs
fgambs's picture

Exposing the total amount of expected bank losses, for both countries, might help.


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:11 | 1984285 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Looking at these charts, Germany kind of sucks as well.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:12 | 1984287 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:13 | 1984296 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

France is more likely to whore itself out to China and Russia, so based on that flexibility it probably survives longer.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:13 | 1984300 maxw3st
maxw3st's picture

Looks like the UK still has some problems, but is headed in the right direction. Germany looks good on employment, until you look at avg hourly wages and discover that most do not make a living wage (kind of like the US in that regard). UK inflation is not really a problem given that weak demand will (and already is starting to) bring that down. Current account balance matters when you are trying to retire debt.

In short, French toast. And not the Champagne kind. The Brit's can print, and are stimulating the economy. France cannot print cash and is engaged in choking off all possibility of growth. I'll take the wine and cheese, but would rather consume it outside the borders of the EU.


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:14 | 1984303 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

If UK fails then banksters all over the world fail.  Where else in the world can you rehypothecate freely and collect free assets legally?  

Banksters will downgrade France much before the UK.  

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:15 | 1984304 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

France is a fucked up country that's always been on the loser side of everything. Revolution against monarchy? Heck, let us be ruled by Robespierre and have a real dictatorship instead. A declaration of human rights? Heck, let us be the most socialist, authoritarianistic top-down country in all of Europe. And besides, poverty can be eliminated with legislation, not with sound economics. There, we just passed a law.

I'll go with any country being in better shape than France.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:21 | 1984327 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Nothing to See Here.... hummm.  your name suits you well.  ..... from a frenchman

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:47 | 1984431 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Nothing To See Here, you are about to be told, son (from an English man)!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:57 | 1984473 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

The truth hurts and I hate to tell it. I love Paris, its food, its cafes and its life, I love France as a land overall, and its people are so nice. But guys, you really have no clue about economics and social issues. Your government is a mess. Young people are fleeing. You still have very viable communist parties all over the country. And worst, you think it's alright and a good thing. France needs a caretaker.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:02 | 1984490 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

I'll go with the french chick

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:19 | 1984318 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

As we say back in France "On est dans la merde" , ...[we are fucked]. But..... we take comfort in.

1 realizing that our British neighbors across the Channel are fucked too.

2 We have much better food and a better weather

3 The royal family dresses up awfully specially in the last royal wedding

4 We have 7 times more Gold in our central bank

5 Our booze (fine wines) is worth 100 times theirs (warm beer).   Do not hold your breath though...We will not confiscate and collateralize vineyards for new gov debt issuance (though that would be a smashing success we could trade inside german spreads with such collateral no doubt).

Wait a minute, I am changing my mind... THEY are fucked!!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:37 | 1984394 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

That's what Louis XVI thought right up to the splitsecond before his head decided to extricate itself from the rest of his body.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:38 | 1984399 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

 <=== A 0r B

 <=== C


  • A = theyRfuked!!
  • B = we are D00MED, BiCheZ!  and
  • C = A+ B
Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:08 | 1985129 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

Actually "On est dans la merde" is closer to "we are in the shit" patato patato WTF ever.....

Did you catch that warm exchange last week as David was taking the podium?

Cameron - no hard feelings Nicky

Sarkozy - Va te faire foutre 

Looked like old pals.......


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:21 | 1984326 adonisdemilo
adonisdemilo's picture

The UK, whilst being in better overall shape, has a real problem--look who we have as neighbours.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:21 | 1984328 dereksatkinson
dereksatkinson's picture

The only reason why the UK isn't getting taken out behind the woodshed right now is because they have a central bank that is willing to participate in the shadow banking system. 

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:33 | 1984374 Reptil
Reptil's picture

ding ding ding

we have a winner

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:58 | 1984464 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

the difference is in the amount of net debt issuance over the next two years. uk's debt has a duration of 9 years with very little coming due except its deficit funding in the next year or two. France has a whole bunch maturing this year and next, with a large deficit. They are both toast, pants and worth very little. Britain though has the advantage of a lot of non-UK banking subsidiaries to make the city of london look has a few towers and some very old buildings; its citizens have great taste and zero substance. Compare them to the US and you will find that all have been shafted by the false intellect that has disconnected entirely from delivering any kind of improvement in anyone's standard of living via a political process and a complete dominance of the welfare state. Why on earth give a vote to someone who makes a career choice of not paying tax and passes that on to their next generation as a worthwhile goal.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:23 | 1984334 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Britain and France have fought many wars over the centuries. This is the latest one! I am not counting on it remaining a war of words and philosophies, either!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:27 | 1984335 It is a bargin ...
It is a bargin my friend's picture

What France has over us in debt terms is way lost in the "respect pie chart"

The US (IMHO) long remember the Iraq 2 snub, it will return to haunt the French at our gain, they are fucked, some things carry weight we followed the US into that steaming pile of horsecrap, but it is at least shared horse crap, think back back what was Duybas last act as Pres...a tax on French cheese as I remember. Respect is owed and will be paid cos thats the way the Us/UK play the game

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:24 | 1984339 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

As pointed out in the Economist, among others, the UK didn't veto dick: the rest of the EU is going ahead without them. A veto stops an action from going forward, Cameron just picked up his ball(s) and schlumpfed off back to Albion.

The Channel ain't big enough to prevent the UK from getting sucked down in the wake of the sinking ship Europhoria, so this is just acollection of equally decomposing corpses. The City ain't Switzerland, and France is always the epicenter of bad shit involving Germans.


Mrs. Miggins: Bonjour, monsieur -- it's French.
Edmund Blackadder: So is eating frogs, cruelty to geese and urinating in the street, but that's no reason to inflict it on the rest of us.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:27 | 1984343 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Who's the country that has 15 Trillion dollars in debt their never gona' pay and 116 Trillion in unfunded liabilities?

That's us bitchez. Welfare nation.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:25 | 1984344 machineh
machineh's picture

I've got no dog in this race.

But short term, the UK wins because it can print pounds sterling, while France (despite its best efforts) cannot force the ECB to print euros.

Printing only leads to inflationary ruin, but money illusion staves off the hard default of not paying the coupon.

Ayez un nice jour, mes amis!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:25 | 1985205 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

Ah maintenant je suis baisé ma plume est cassée

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:25 | 1984346 blu
blu's picture

Okay, so one of them is the best looking horse in the glue factory. Winning?

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:27 | 1984355 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Clash of the Big Government/Entitlement State titans.

Neither will survive in the long run.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:27 | 1984356 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Wow! Great charts! Thank you!

From looking at them, I'd say it's a toss-up in Europe for who is the most profligate and irresponsible!

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:31 | 1984370 frenchie
frenchie's picture

it is not very wise to come up with "religion issues in Yugoslavia" as the conflict was judo-masonic engineered as usual and religion was used as one of many covers to serve the story to the goyim sheeple around the world

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:38 | 1984398 Stagflationary
Stagflationary's picture

The UK owns a printer, France doesn't and Germany is only going to give it access to a 40cpm dot matrix printer for one hour every week.


End of story.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:39 | 1984404 css1971
css1971's picture

The difference between the UK and France is that the UK invented the central bank, they know what it's for. For better or worse, the UK can turn depression into stagflation and inflate their debts away.You noticed they started as soon as the crisis hit in 08?

This leaves the situation unpleasant in the UK, but stable and predictable.


Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:14 | 1984542 machineh
machineh's picture

This is the sad reality of Mondo Fiat -- countries get punished more for monetary stability (read: not printing) than for hiding their woes behind a veil of money illusion.

Conventional wisdom prefers the printing press, which leads to a more lingering terminal illness instead of a dramatic departure.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:30 | 1985209 Archduke
Archduke's picture

No.  Actually according to the seminal Ascent of Money by Niall Fergusson,

it was invented in France, by another scottish rake mind you (John Law).

He also created the first speculative stock bubble and monetary ponzi scheme.


Fri, 12/16/2011 - 08:28 | 1986388 tim73
tim73's picture

Sweden has the world oldest central bank.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:41 | 1984411 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Both are losers and don't really care but that some ratings agency finally would finally find a pair and do what needs to be done to protect shareholders...won't be Frenchie Fitch so let's go S&P or Moodys...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:41 | 1984412 pq7
pq7's picture

Let's be generous to both UK and France and downgrade them together...

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:48 | 1984434 Emergcy
Emergcy's picture

The question is when US gets downgraded? Is their debt not also already 100% of GDP and the view into the future even worse. For me is no doubt that Europe is in the shit but the rating is very anglo minded. I guess CIA would come to them for visit if they would intend to downgrade USA.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:59 | 1984474 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the US is uber alles in all areas, including bull shitting on MSM; but that's another story we'll get Kyle Bass to relate to us when he has made a trllion BS USD. I don't admire those who live off other people's misery, albeit I acknowledge he has cojones in doing it, new new world financial conquistador. But that's me, my prejudice, not him and his acumen, I'll admit to that.  I prefer by far a Steve Jobs or a Stephen HAwkins who are creators of true knowledge or its applications.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 16:04 | 1984505 riphowardkatz
riphowardkatz's picture

Warning people about a fire when it is about to burn down their house is nothing to be ashamed of. I wouldn't doubt that he would prefer investing in sane world in people like Steve Jobs. 

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 15:48 | 1984435 Peak Everything
Peak Everything's picture

On a relative scale, whoever has the most fossil energy reserves will do best. On an absolute scale, both are fucked.

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