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UK Vs France: You Decide Who Is Worse
The latest scandalous childish spat in Europe is not between some hardcore religious fanatics in the former Yugoslavia, but between the two countries that traditionally (at least in post-war Europe) have been at the forefront of sense and stability: France and the UK, where things got out of joint after David Cameron vetoed the recent G-27 attempt to bailout French and German banks on the taxpayer's dime, quickly followed up by a media war, and culminating with the idiotic announcement by Bank of France head Christian Noyer who said it is not France who has to be downgraded, but the UK. For our thoughts on this ridiculous statement, which merely confirms how clueless Europe currently is, see here. We will say no more about who is more hopeless between the two - it is pretty clear that in a global coordinated ponzi, everyone is only as strong as the weakest link, especially among the AAA-club: the fact that a central bank head does not, is grounds for great concern... so instead we will leave it up to our readers. Below, courtesy of Reuters, we present a tableau of the key economic dataseries for the two countries, and benchmarked against Europe's strongest economy: Germany. So is Cameron right in saying he is protecting the UK taxpayers by keeping them isolated from the European maelstrom, or is Noyer correct when he says that the UK is far worse off? Readers decide.
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UK
Where the food is ugly and the women taste badly.
ew
OT but interesting:
CNBC: Gold Sheds 'Can't Lose' Status: Now, No One Wants Ithttp://www.cnbc.com/id/45684174
That’s the word from the mainstream so it must be true.
Excellent. My truck will be backing up in januari. Please keep up the efforts and continue the fairy tale please?
Really... I'm all for correct information, but if people still believe this shit, they WANT to believe it.
Financial death becomes then financial suïcide. Not my problem.
well, shit that didn't take long. So the shoeshine boy is gonna say sell gold now?
Jamie & Lloyd: Amerika's Shoeshine Boys
If it wasn't for fraud and theft as Wall Street's business model... Jamie 'n Lloyd would be shining shoes...
Gimme a shine, Jamie...
Both UK and France will be downgraded, though for very different reasons. It is also irrelevant, at least in the case of the UK, until after Eurozone breakup and the short/medium-term consequences!
I was under the impression (too drunk to look it up now) that the UK's debt is of much longer maturity... that must count for something.
It's having to roll over the short-duration debt that's crushing the PIIGS, is it not?
The longer maturity on UK debt is a factor, but I would say it's less important than the demonstrated willingness of the BoE to print, print, print, as compared to the ECB's reluctance. The weakness of the UK position will manifest itself in high inflation, not a default, and that's beyond the remit of the ratings agencies, who explicitly judge only the likelihood of a "credit event".
Between the devil and the deep blue sea, it may be best to stick with Norway.
Time will tell. Gold at 700 is a possibility. Lots of real wealth lost in that event.
Ze Celts, William ze Conquerer and ze Anglos and ze Saxons had it all wrong.
They should've stayed away from Barbaria!
IMHO it is unlikely that we'll see serious shortage of money as long as socialist Euro-democracies exist.. I remain long PMs and miners, in fact I added to my positions 2 days ago.
I expect some kind of QE in the US by end of January.
Hhmm. Wonder if their stats are any less manipulated than ours?
.
Desolee monsieur Cameron, mister Noyer is right.
Osborne 0 : 1 Noyer
So this is what we have become asking ourselves "whose shit smells better". All of us are swimming in shit. Relax and enjoy the implosion whereever you are.
Much easier choice..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3zZ_ih0Jpc
I love it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNigBNUWOs
To borrow from a favorite saying: A battle to be the best looking horse at the glue factory.
Goldman did the biggest manipulation of all times with Greece.
HH, that is completely disgusting.
Which one? Cuisine Anglais like spotted dick (below), or cunnilingus anglais?
Well put!
That is NOT spotted dick, aka rolly poley pudding...looks like cake with custard.....God damn..if we can't have truth in pudding, then fuktus cactus we truely are....
...yet, maybe there are some areas where it is better to not claim expertise? At least you did not say, "That is NOT true...Winehouse snatch tastes like butterscotch!"
bread pudding; a claimed speciality by jamaicans, brummies, welsh...
creme anglais done proper-like is a real nice sauce
UK macro numbers look a bit worse (both are fucked up), but consider the following:
-Cost of aiding your Euro neighbours: 2-3 Trillion Euro
-Having your own currency and the ability to monetize your debt: Priceless
The Eurozone can monetize there debt they just havent done it yet.
But France isn't the Eurozone, and the Germans really don't like the idea of monetization. We know the BoE will print if it feels slightly bored on a Thursday lunchtime; the ECB, not so much.
the argument of the currency devaluation being better than default on debt makes little sense, like two drunks arguing who is going to have worse hangover tommorow. They are both the same thing, as both british and french people are going to find out more or less at the same time.
France?
Germany? Meh, I give up!
The Three Stooges seems appropriate.
Mo seems like Germany, Larry is France and Curley is Great Britain.
(From RESTLESS NIGHTS)
LARRY: All for one!
MOE: One for All
CURLEY: Every man for himself!
Let's see the US of A for comparison, oh wait forgot we are comparing AAA nations.
Who is worse? The UK, of course. Those snobs don't know how to cooperate with anyone until you threaten to remove their genitals. There is no reason for them to have anything to say about it anyway, since they refused to join the euro in the first place.
Sorry, it's in our nature. We've been doing it for the last 600 years or so. Europe has constantly been trying to force their ways upon us, but we have the best "don't take no shit" attitude in Europe, so that has never happened.
And when you get into a jam with that attitude, you could always come crying to the US.
Well, 300 years ago the US was British, and today you have inherited that trait of the British culture - the US don't take shit either.
the UK: where white people have so little balls that they strip down when black people riot.
Where is Napier's "cultural sensitivity" program when you need it?
@ RMolineaux - Putain!
Concorde & Eurotunnel?
It is probable that Noyer knows exactly what the true situation is, but like all central bankers, he makes these statements in an attempt to reassure the public. The French public, understandably, has a built in skeptism about anything the conceited Brits have to say.
aig lehman brothers mf global madoff
rehypocation
French fried..
The UK has it's own Sterling-France is using something called EURO... ça c'est la différence..
no because if one goes so do them all
They both look like shit
France
Definitely the UK. Take away the fraudelent City of London and what's left? At least the French have some industrial companies and wine and cheese. What does England export exactly? I can't believe their current account is in balance. Must be something fishy there ...
Whiskey
and Haggis. Which more than cancels the Scotch.
"Haggis is a dish containing sheep's 'pluck' (heart, liver and lungs), minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally simmered in the animal's stomach for approximately three hours"
That's not even their Whiskey, it belongs to the Scotts and Welsh. Irish Whiskey is better anyways.
mmm the old black bush
Whisky. The real stuff from Scotland. Slange var.
Great musicians, bad ass cars, and mediocre actors..
you know you may have a point...
who gives a fuck?
RollRoyce jet engines / autos Mini /Jags
You mean BMW and Ford?
Still, Ze English are toast!
And there you have the reason for Cameron's boyish behaviour: They can't pay for it anymore (and according to recent predictions by the Exchequer (a french word) its getting much worse in 2012) !!
how come your boobs point outwards, have they been riding horses like those bow legged Mongols whose knees point outwards and feet point inwards?
Come a little closer, nothing points outwards except for your balls! *lol*
Jaguar is Tata, not Ford
Mini=BMW=German, sorry dude you need to dyr
Huh ? Mini is British not German.
edit: Okay it is German now after all.
Watch your words: Bavarian attack imminent.
nope been german for years..uk has no car manufacturers left...remember the black hole of british leyland, british steel and british coal? now the uk has the black hole of the banks, RBS and Lloyds.
most bentleys=VW Phaeton
in the same way that Heckler & Koch is now British.
That's why they sold guns to Lybia?
That's a lot of MP5s
The City of London corp makes Russian corruption look like petty crime! Occupy The London Stock Exchange (eating French cheese & drinking French wine)!
" I can't believe their current account is in balance. Must be something fishy there..."
Just a collapse in domestic demand (which is why they have the weakest growth and the BoE is able to forecast inflation falling back to target and be taken vaguely seriously. Otherwise UK yields would probably explode, like France but due to inflationary expectations.)
Well just as a start you could check out the arms industry..and work your way down....fish exports are probably near the bottom....
import minus exports
guess which one has fallen off a cliff
hint real wages declining at 5% pa
quality street
and central banks
...What does England export exactly?
England is one of the major exporters of the Bankster empire.
As long as the UK keeps supplying men and materiel for every US 'liberation' around the globe, the Fed will continue to buy UK gilts through anonymous blind trusts, keeping yields absurdly low.
The UK's holiday from reality ends... when the Fed does.
No surrender monkeys here.
Blighty all the way to prosperity at the behest of those Gallic inbreds.
Noyer you crazy ECB govna. Trying to bring down UK with ya ha.
Nope the Brits city started the shenanigans. This is late knee jerk to City mega corruption and rip off.
Sorry, any macro economist would easily see that France loses in the contest against the UK. I guess that was the point of Tyler's posting this.
france, but only because it can't control its own currency
France has one thing going for it, its country side; it'll survive the french bureaucracy. One good joke from history :
The current French Sarkozist government known for its racialist slant prevalent today leading to next year's elections, to fight off rival Marine Le Pen's far right break-through; (she is Tea party type, red neck, traditionalist politician); has a Home Minister who attended a Sarkozy party gathering where a local stalwart was of Arab origin. And somebody cracked a joke saying, "You have Arabs in your party?" The Home Minister replied, "We have one; its becomes a problem when there are more", and the whole congregation cracked up. The media got that repartee and it hit the tweeter and NET and now they were all shitting in their pants that a private comment got "spun" on the NET. To laugh off his comment, the Home Minister said to the press, "Its a local joke, I'm from Auvergne region. And we make these jokes in that region." Obvious side stepping, he got nailed for it.
I looked up History. At the battle of Alesia fort, Caesar's greatest triumph 60000 legionaries beat off 120-180000 "Arverni" Celts, making the 60 000 celts inside fortifications surrender, having driven off those others who came in support. After the battle, his supreme campaign success of Gallic wars, his General LAbienus asked Caesar, "What do we do with our captives?" Caesar replied "They are brave individually, but as shown by this battle, they are useless when many. So we have a problem with discipline. One is fine, many is a problem." Labienus retained the lesson. Each Celtic battalion had at its head a Roman Centurion.
No wonder the sons of those Arverni, the Auvergnats of today, have retained the lesson like scalded cats 2000 years later. Now they love playing at Caesar saying to their "minions" : One is fine... ah, History repeats. But the cheese of Auvergne is very good as is their country side. Just kidding...its the elites, their mind set, I don't like.
A nice snapshot of history, thank you...should be more of it!
good read
ROONEY! ROO-NAY!
/Sarc
The UK debt tp GDP ratio is FAR worse when bank debt is included. UK taxpayers sunk UK pounds over 1 trillion which is counted as equity!---LMAO
Well isn't the balance sheet of the big three French banks something like 400% of their national GDP? (Too lazy to get the exact number). They are both fucked by their banks.
Wouldn't the French debt/GDP ratio also be far worse, if the cost of recapitalising French banks were included..?
But France has more Muslims...the UK second..and Germany coming in a far 3rd...to me that is just as important
to me U R as stupid as Ur as your look
Rotflmao
YH, you may not understand the relevance of his observation quite yet but you will especially if you live in the London area while this all unwinds..
but all have jews as ruling class...
Thats er the Zionists, I'm a Jew and if you want to be told what to do go buy some physical Au & Ag
Right.
And dont worry. Most of us know the difference.
Umm... no more than half do.... do a search for pogrom...
I'm shocked that the country with it's printer, the UK, has nearly 3 times the inflation.
+ £100,000,000,000,000,000,000...
In the words of Newt...not Gingrich..."It won't make any difference."
UK big time
Kyle Bass for Prez of the USA
Michael Burry for VP.
Ron Paul: the Fed Chairman
Hugh Hendry for Treasurer
All the others we kick out: don't need a Congress anymore with this team.
President- Ron Paul
VP- J Ventura (whom would provide protection for Paul)
FED- Abolished
Treasurer - William Black
SEC/FINRA - Abolish- Start from scratch - the end of self-regulation. Self Reg never worked and never will.
535- Throw them all out
Retrieve the Constitution & BOR from the shredder.
Direct Democracy!
Like the Founders, somehow I don't think Dr. Paul cares much for the mob-rule d.b.a. "Direct Democracy."
BTW, the Constitution designed a republic specifically to avoid this danger they referred to as a tyranny of the minority (as the mob is never representative of the whole, nor even the majority, as then there'd be no need for a mob for enforcement, but instead would be viewed as convention).
good, but bill Black as financial justice tsar
with approval to add names to the Pres's Naughty List of Financial Terrorists bound for Gitmo
or a pair of ivory handled colts...
Ron Paul's first act as FED Chairman...to close the doors and fire himself.
He knows better than to simply close the door (someone else might reopen it). More likely, you'd see dozers, lots and lots of dozers. Then he'd have a fire-sale on marble.
Hire Nigel Farage for Press Secretary
All three Musketeers -- France, UK and Germany -- have to be downgraded (Germany by at least one notch, France and UK by at least two notches).
Germany should be upgraded to triple A+ because its the economic powerhouse of europe
France has more negros than the UK, so France.
The more Kenyans the more prosperous.
Isn't that a well known fact?
Occupy Welfare Checks
Umm, thats a race not a religious/political system, nice avatar stupid comment..
Exposing the total amount of expected bank losses, for both countries, might help.
Looking at these charts, Germany kind of sucks as well.
yes!
France is more likely to whore itself out to China and Russia, so based on that flexibility it probably survives longer.
Looks like the UK still has some problems, but is headed in the right direction. Germany looks good on employment, until you look at avg hourly wages and discover that most do not make a living wage (kind of like the US in that regard). UK inflation is not really a problem given that weak demand will (and already is starting to) bring that down. Current account balance matters when you are trying to retire debt.
In short, French toast. And not the Champagne kind. The Brit's can print, and are stimulating the economy. France cannot print cash and is engaged in choking off all possibility of growth. I'll take the wine and cheese, but would rather consume it outside the borders of the EU.
If UK fails then banksters all over the world fail. Where else in the world can you rehypothecate freely and collect free assets legally?
Banksters will downgrade France much before the UK.
France is a fucked up country that's always been on the loser side of everything. Revolution against monarchy? Heck, let us be ruled by Robespierre and have a real dictatorship instead. A declaration of human rights? Heck, let us be the most socialist, authoritarianistic top-down country in all of Europe. And besides, poverty can be eliminated with legislation, not with sound economics. There, we just passed a law.
I'll go with any country being in better shape than France.
Nothing to See Here.... hummm. your name suits you well. ..... from a frenchman
Nothing To See Here, you are about to be told, son (from an English man)!
The truth hurts and I hate to tell it. I love Paris, its food, its cafes and its life, I love France as a land overall, and its people are so nice. But guys, you really have no clue about economics and social issues. Your government is a mess. Young people are fleeing. You still have very viable communist parties all over the country. And worst, you think it's alright and a good thing. France needs a caretaker.
I'll go with the french chick
As we say back in France "On est dans la merde" , ...[we are fucked]. But..... we take comfort in.
1 realizing that our British neighbors across the Channel are fucked too.
2 We have much better food and a better weather
3 The royal family dresses up awfully specially in the last royal wedding
4 We have 7 times more Gold in our central bank
5 Our booze (fine wines) is worth 100 times theirs (warm beer). Do not hold your breath though...We will not confiscate and collateralize vineyards for new gov debt issuance (though that would be a smashing success we could trade inside german spreads with such collateral no doubt).
Wait a minute, I am changing my mind... THEY are fucked!!
That's what Louis XVI thought right up to the splitsecond before his head decided to extricate itself from the rest of his body.
<=== A 0r B
<=== C
where
Actually "On est dans la merde" is closer to "we are in the shit" patato patato WTF ever.....
Did you catch that warm exchange last week as David was taking the podium?
Cameron - no hard feelings Nicky
Sarkozy - Va te faire foutre
Looked like old pals.......
The UK, whilst being in better overall shape, has a real problem--look who we have as neighbours.
The only reason why the UK isn't getting taken out behind the woodshed right now is because they have a central bank that is willing to participate in the shadow banking system.
ding ding ding
we have a winner
the difference is in the amount of net debt issuance over the next two years. uk's debt has a duration of 9 years with very little coming due except its deficit funding in the next year or two. France has a whole bunch maturing this year and next, with a large deficit. They are both toast, pants and worth very little. Britain though has the advantage of a lot of non-UK banking subsidiaries to make the city of london look important..paris has a few towers and some very old buildings; its citizens have great taste and zero substance. Compare them to the US and you will find that all have been shafted by the false intellect that has disconnected entirely from delivering any kind of improvement in anyone's standard of living via a political process and a complete dominance of the welfare state. Why on earth give a vote to someone who makes a career choice of not paying tax and passes that on to their next generation as a worthwhile goal.
Britain and France have fought many wars over the centuries. This is the latest one! I am not counting on it remaining a war of words and philosophies, either!
What France has over us in debt terms is way lost in the "respect pie chart"
The US (IMHO) long remember the Iraq 2 snub, it will return to haunt the French at our gain, they are fucked, some things carry weight we followed the US into that steaming pile of horsecrap, but it is at least shared horse crap, think back back what was Duybas last act as Pres...a tax on French cheese as I remember. Respect is owed and will be paid cos thats the way the Us/UK play the game
As pointed out in the Economist, among others, the UK didn't veto dick: the rest of the EU is going ahead without them. A veto stops an action from going forward, Cameron just picked up his ball(s) and schlumpfed off back to Albion.
The Channel ain't big enough to prevent the UK from getting sucked down in the wake of the sinking ship Europhoria, so this is just acollection of equally decomposing corpses. The City ain't Switzerland, and France is always the epicenter of bad shit involving Germans.
Mrs. Miggins: Bonjour, monsieur -- it's French.
Edmund Blackadder: So is eating frogs, cruelty to geese and urinating in the street, but that's no reason to inflict it on the rest of us.
Who's the country that has 15 Trillion dollars in debt their never gona' pay and 116 Trillion in unfunded liabilities?
That's us bitchez. Welfare nation.
I've got no dog in this race.
But short term, the UK wins because it can print pounds sterling, while France (despite its best efforts) cannot force the ECB to print euros.
Printing only leads to inflationary ruin, but money illusion staves off the hard default of not paying the coupon.
Ayez un nice jour, mes amis!
Ah maintenant je suis baisé ma plume est cassée
Okay, so one of them is the best looking horse in the glue factory. Winning?
Clash of the Big Government/Entitlement State titans.
Neither will survive in the long run.
Wow! Great charts! Thank you!
From looking at them, I'd say it's a toss-up in Europe for who is the most profligate and irresponsible!
it is not very wise to come up with "religion issues in Yugoslavia" as the conflict was judo-masonic engineered as usual and religion was used as one of many covers to serve the story to the goyim sheeple around the world
The UK owns a printer, France doesn't and Germany is only going to give it access to a 40cpm dot matrix printer for one hour every week.
End of story.
The difference between the UK and France is that the UK invented the central bank, they know what it's for. For better or worse, the UK can turn depression into stagflation and inflate their debts away.You noticed they started as soon as the crisis hit in 08?
This leaves the situation unpleasant in the UK, but stable and predictable.
This is the sad reality of Mondo Fiat -- countries get punished more for monetary stability (read: not printing) than for hiding their woes behind a veil of money illusion.
Conventional wisdom prefers the printing press, which leads to a more lingering terminal illness instead of a dramatic departure.
No. Actually according to the seminal Ascent of Money by Niall Fergusson,
it was invented in France, by another scottish rake mind you (John Law).
He also created the first speculative stock bubble and monetary ponzi scheme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Law_%28economist%29
Sweden has the world oldest central bank.
Both are losers and don't really care but that some ratings agency finally would finally find a pair and do what needs to be done to protect shareholders...won't be Frenchie Fitch so let's go S&P or Moodys...
Let's be generous to both UK and France and downgrade them together...
The question is when US gets downgraded? Is their debt not also already 100% of GDP and the view into the future even worse. For me is no doubt that Europe is in the shit but the rating is very anglo minded. I guess CIA would come to them for visit if they would intend to downgrade USA.
the US is uber alles in all areas, including bull shitting on MSM; but that's another story we'll get Kyle Bass to relate to us when he has made a trllion BS USD. I don't admire those who live off other people's misery, albeit I acknowledge he has cojones in doing it, new new world financial conquistador. But that's me, my prejudice, not him and his acumen, I'll admit to that. I prefer by far a Steve Jobs or a Stephen HAwkins who are creators of true knowledge or its applications.
Warning people about a fire when it is about to burn down their house is nothing to be ashamed of. I wouldn't doubt that he would prefer investing in sane world in people like Steve Jobs.
On a relative scale, whoever has the most fossil energy reserves will do best. On an absolute scale, both are fucked.