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The Ultimate Krugman Take-Down

Tyler Durden's picture


Forget Ali - Frazier; ignore Santelli - Liesman; dismiss Yankees - Red Sox; never mind Silva - Sonnen; the new undisputed standard by which all showdowns will be judged happened in Spain over the weekend. During a debate on Europe's crisis, Pedro Schwartz (a mild-mannered Spanish 'Austrian' economics professor) took on the heavyweight Paul 'I coulda been a Fed Chair contender' Krugman, and - in our humble opinion - wiped the floor with his Keynesian philosophy. From the medicinal use of more debt to fix too much debt, to the Japanization of world economies and the demand-side bias of every- and any-thing - interested only in the short-term economic growth; the gentlemanly Spaniard notes, with regard to the European crisis, the fact that "Keynesians got us into this mess and now we have to sacrifice our principals so that they can get us out of this mess". Humble and generous in his praise - though definitively serious with his criticism - Schwartz opines: "Often Nobel prize winners are tempted to pontificate on matters that are outside the specialty in which they have excelled," noting "the mantle of authority whereby what ever they say - whether sensible or not - is accepted with resignation from some and enthusiasm by others." Krugman's red-faced anger is evident at the conclusion as he even refused to shake Schwartz's hand after the debate.

For 15 minutes of both education and entertainment - this is as good as it gets...

  • Starting from around 35:00 the Spanish professor praises and criticizes in a thoughtful and gentle tone
  • At around 39:00, he addresses the demand-side description of the world
  • Krugman's less-than-happy response (which sparks quite a rowdy argument) begins around 48:20


(h/t Jean Luis Martin of the Truman Factor)


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Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:22 | 2600734 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

Did Paul "Professional Blogger" Krugman really just claim that he was doing a good job because people disagreed with him?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:42 | 2600787 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Hell, you could use that reasoning to say that Obummer is doing a great job too. Actually, he is doing a great job of stealing from the common folk so that the filth rich can get even richer. How about all the cops take a couple weeks off, and then see if those rich bastards still have that stupid smirk on their face. What's left of them, that is.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:55 | 2600821 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

This seems appropriate...

"A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many bad measures." -- Daniel Webster

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:12 | 2600858 economics9698
economics9698's picture

"The banks need to be rescued"  What a fucking surprise.

Inflation, the EXACT fucking thing Montagu Norman talked Benjamin Strong into in 1925.  And we know that fucking ended.

Krugman is always wrong.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:20 | 2600886 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Holy shit, I thought Gerry Cooney took an ass-kicking from Larry Holmes.  That was nothing compared to this.  I thought these eggheads usually held back punches.  This guy beat the shit out of Krugman going up the street, down the street and in the back alley.  These are jabs. uppercuts, body shots and killer head shots.  None of the shots were unfair or illegal.

Fuck you, Krugman, you are a voodoo Priest piece of dogshit.  You lie.  You steal.  I have seen your textbook work.  It is an insult to humanity.  The fact that college kids get taught from a book that you wrote is a crime against humanity.  The fact that you accept money for that pablum shows you to be as large a crook as anything on Broad Street, Water Street or Wall Street.  You are an intellectual Nazi leading young people to the proverbial showers.  You are an evil being and yes you deserve to be compared to the Nazis.  That is not hyperbole.  Reality can be painful but with one as wretched as you, that is the reality. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:43 | 2600945 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Expansion of the monetary base is not inflationary because the money is parked in excess reserve.

The deficits have not led to increased interest rates because the Fed is printing. 

When ZIRP ends 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:02 | 2600989 flacon
flacon's picture

OMG, listening to Keynes spout his mouth like that..... ughhhh.,..,., oh did I say Keynes... Krugman spout his mouth like that....... welll llllll... come on motherfucker.... print, PRINT, PRINT, PRINT, PRINT! PRINT YOU MOTHERFUCKER!  See if THAT gets you your twenty three trillion dollar spending package you motherfucker ass rapist beast! 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:05 | 2601003 flacon
flacon's picture

Hey Bernanke, guess what? FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:11 | 2601015 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Okay flacon, less venom, more ribaldry.  Yeah, that's it...

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:28 | 2601050 flacon
flacon's picture

Pythons don't eat kangroroos.No venom in me.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:39 | 2601154 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


These Keynesian promoters must know that they are intellectually dishonest.  Their positions of recognition come from their approach of inflate, inflate, inflate and, on some level, they know it satisfies the banking class / political establishment / commercial media who in return give them power.

The teary-eyed stuttering that Krugman displays is of one who, on a sub-conscious level at least, knows that he is a huckster and just prays he can get out of town before the approaching outraged mob of fleeced townfolk gets to him.  Hah mule!


p.s. so much for Youtube stats - 10,300 reads on ZH and 2,190 views on Youtube.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:53 | 2601271 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Webster Tarpley even goes further and suggests that the elite are actually engineering this takedown of the world economy. Though this idea has been repeated ad nauseum on ZH in the comments, Tarpley shows that it is plausible in light of his own recasting of the Great Depression of the 1930's. See his paper

This paper should be read by all people who would otherwise just be giving credence to conspiracy theories regarding the present crisis.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:24 | 2601724 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

I love the fact that Austrians can tear people apart in the nicest and most respectful of ways. Dumb asses like Krugman, though he attempted to show some gentility, showe who he really is. "You're saying we're not qualified." "I didn't run you down, not at all." And, of course, it is up to the watcher to decide who is correct. But Krugman does seem to think he knows everything. Us Austrians know that we know almost nothing and therefore don't try to engineer the outcomes we want. And that seems to be the problem. The quote about throwing away our principles so that they can get themselves out of the mess...priceless. And 100% correct.

Double down, Paulie. Double down. Damn the torpedoes....

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:45 | 2601800 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

My favorite Krugman KO came in 2008 about public health care. Worth 34 seconds :

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:12 | 2601022 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Krugman.. the federal portion of the Y + C+I+ G+ NX expanded from 20.8 to 25.2% from 2008 to 2009.  Keynesian stimulus on steroids...and it failed spectacularly.  This fucker is running such a con game for the NYC elites its pathetic.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:14 | 2601027 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

There are no shortage of delusional assholes in NYC.  Sadly we are in surplus on that account. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:20 | 2601039 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

dang, we haven't reached peak "... delusional assholes in NYC."

- Ned

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:43 | 2601082 economics9698
economics9698's picture

“We didn’t have a modern recession until the 1870’s.”  Completely clueless, 1816, 1837, 1781, fuck and this list is incomplete.  How in the fuck do I get a job where I can spit out shit and get paid the big bucks?

Sign me up.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:04 | 2601671 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Correct.  Krugman is a fucking intellectual idiot mouthpiece for TPTB.  Notice how he wants to ignore the issue of "solvency" right up front.

economics is bullshit, and those who pontificate it are always contradicting themselves.

There is a simple solution to fix the world economy, do what Nature does and inure that there are real consequences for bad behavior AT ALL LEVELS.

Solvency may not matter to Krugman, but it sure as hell will matter when all his paper is fucking worthless.  Krugman and Summers should be among the first in line for the guillotine.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:27 | 2601732 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

You missed his point. He said, "modern recession." Unfortunately, he defines modernity as 1865 and forward. And then that sucky Long Depression from 1873-1896 that everyone forgets about...shit. Krugman's busted again. Nevermind...I try to help him out, but he just keeps openingh is big fat mouth.

Anyone think he looks like he should be in pajamas, eating Cheetos, in his sister's basement? A suit and tie just don't seem right for him.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:34 | 2601759 fresno dan
fresno dan's picture

Its been discovered that delusional NY assholes are schzophrenic...and that their multiple personalities can, like money printing, expand infinitely.  The economy can collapse due to NY delusional assholes.... but the supply of delusional assholes can expand infinitely!!!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:59 | 2601095 Popo
Popo's picture

If you want to see *true* flailing, skip to 1:20:30 where Krugman stumbles over himself embarrassingly trying to answer a question about the inherent contradictions in his position. (The contradiction being the preservation of wages, asset values & markets vs. competitive exports). He then tries to make it seem like he actually knows what to say but "doesn't have time".  Uh huh.   it's clear that he's completely busted as he rambles on about Spain being "increasingly an export economy and increasingly an import economy" (LOL what???) ...   That must be like an "underlying overlay"? (yes, he really said that).  

As is usual in the Economics racket -- his glaring mistake isn't a mistake at all.   No sir.  It's just incredibly, incredibly complex requiring hundreds of additional theories and formulas to cover up for the basic half-baked contradiction of a society attempting to sustain exports, wages, demand and asset values simultaneously.  

Don't worry Paul.  Trade deficits as you well know (you Keynesian fucktard) don't matter.  Afterall, what flows out can just be replaced artificially ad infinitum.  So yeah, sure, the economy is growing and balance of trade is just a weird little (cough cough) "anomaly".    It'll all sort itself out in no time at all, old boy.

Krugman goes for the old, "I could explain it to you, but I don't have time" dodge.  But his setup to his own dodge outlines the contradiction perfectly. He's cornered and he knows it.   

At the end he says, "Good question" as if the Spanish audience member asking the question (most likely an educated economist in his own right) is a pimply-faced college freshmen.  

It was indeed a good question.   Krugman's answer on the other hand was pure hocus-pocus, smoke and mirrors bullshit.





Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:24 | 2601240 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

The problem with your comment is that it is not short and pithy like those of flacon who also spices his with colorful language.

You also say, "It's just incredibly, incredibly complex requiring hundreds of additional theories and formulas to cover up for the basic half-baked contradiction of a society attempting to sustain exports, wages, demand and asset values simultaneously."

Well, you must realize that epicycles did do the job before the age of Copernicus. Epicycles do work in describing the motion of the planets in the case where the sun revolves arount the earth. Krugman has done great work in what amounts to Keynsian Economic Epicycle Theory and has greatly advanced our knowledge of economic epicycles. If you want the equivalent of a Copernican Economic Theory, you need to follow Steve Keen. However, Keen is an outcast and has been excommunicated.

Krugman has not studied enough math to do what Keen does, which is to formulate things in terms of differential equations.  A differential equation is just an equation that includes a rate of change of a quantity. For instance, given a fixed interest rate, your money grows exponentially over time in a savings account using continuous compounding. This comes from incorporating a rate of change in an equation. Not so tough to understand. But Krugman would have to completely retool to learn to think in this fashion--as is the case for all neo-classical economists. Rather than admit their basic ignorance, they pontificate using what amounts to hocus pocus, shifting supply and demand curves right and left. They know nothing of non-linear dynamics or singularity theory.

Keynesians are people who love money. They are happy when people give them lots of money. They then realize that if this procedure works at a personal level, it is easy to generalize it to a whole economy. If the economy is sad (ie, moribund), just print money and throw it at the economy. Krugman demonstrates this in his little book on Depression Economics using the Capitol Hill Babysitting Coop example. Infusions of large amounts of money are all it takes to create "confidence". Confidence is like a baby's smile when you give it a lollypop.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 04:47 | 2601344 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Stop comparing phsyics with the pseudoscience of economics. Human behaviour is not susceptible to  mathematical modeling and will never be modeled.

There is no Copernicus or Newton of economics.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 05:23 | 2601361 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Nonsense. You can model many things with mathematics. Already mathematical biology has made great strides. Statistics is a part of mathematics that has modeled many aspects of human and societal behavior very well.

You missed the point about Copernicus--his name was used tongue-in-cheek. Who said anything about Newton? Epicycles were before Newton's time. You must have meant Ptolemy (agree that N and P are close to each other in the alphabet)?

I never claimed Economics is science, just as I would never claim epicycles are science, though, given the time of Ptolemy they might qualify as science, much as string theory does nowadays (which is currently unverifiable by experiments).

Why don't you go eat some vanilla wafers or something?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 06:48 | 2601403 centipede
centipede's picture

You can model many things with mathematics but if correlations do not hold (happens often in economics) you would have to change the model all the time.

Krugman doesn't understand besides math even basic logic. His answer to the lady who asked whether inflation is not a theft proves it. To compare government enforced and counterfeited fiat with unemployment as an equal injustice and justify that one innocent man should pay for suffering of the other is a blatant idiocy.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:47 | 2601636 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Nonsense. You can model many things with mathematics. Already mathematical biology has made great strides.

Living beings are not machines, do not, ultimately, behave mechanically, and their lives cannot be 'modeled' using mechanics, and will remain indeterministic for the purposes of mathmematics no matter what 'strides' are made in your sterile and artificial laboratory environments. The excuse for failure, of course, is the appeal to 'complexity', itself founded in your ridiculous presumptions of materialism and reductionism. It is your bankrupt metaphysics which is ultimately nonsensical, as has been shown, demonstarted and proved countless times in the history of philosophy, and will continue to show itself incapable of completing the impossible task which it has set itself with the mathematical sciences.  In spite of their pretensions of the intellectual omnipotence of their formalistic game of symbols, mathematicians don't get all the girls, and there is a good reason why. If I want to know abotu human behaviour, I''l go to the likes of Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, or Nietzsche, and not some pencil pusher in a laboratory whose social life consists playing World of Warcraft every evening after work.

Statistics is a part of mathematics that has modeled many aspects of human and societal behavior very well.

No, it hasn't. It can't determine what history will happen tomorrow, nor what a person will say, think or do even from one minute to the next. I am afraid it is you, not I, who has imbibed nonsense.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:04 | 2601687 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

What about those vanilla wafers?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:36 | 2601768 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

OK, seem to have missed some of the points of economic models. If you have all the underlying assumptions, then you certainly can predict (with some degree of confidence or probability) what will happen next. The same thing happens in physics or biology. But every once in awhile, in each of these subjects, something breaks down. For instance you drop a ball and it should fall to the ground at your feet...unless a big gust of wind comes along.

The problem with stats and economic models is that people don't behave like the assumptions. Not everyone is a "homo economicus" in the sense that someone wants to say is rational. Everyone has their own reason for making their own rational choices, even if they disagree with mine. And that's perfectly cool. Live and let live.

But here is where the real underlying philosophy shows up. I say let people do what they want to do, even if it seems stupid, so long as it doesn't harm another, break contracts, take the property of another away or demean its value, etc. Krugman seriously thinks we should all act the way he wants us to act. Call it fascism or communism or whatever. It's not something I can stomach.

So I keep trying to figure out if you're holding aces or rags. I make my decisions based upon what I know and have observed. And often I'm surprised...but I can keep watching and hope to figure more out along the way. I can look at how a country responded to a certain type of policy previously and hope to extrapolate something, with some degree of fear and trepidation that this time might be different. But I wouldn't try to force someone to do what I want.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:41 | 2601786 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

Human beings are not machines, true, but their behavior can be predicted, particularly in the aggregate.  One need look only as far as the incentive structure in the economy:  taxes and taxes breaks, interest rates (for borrowing and especially savings), regulations, stability of currency, etc.  Keynesians seem to believe they can induce individuals to consume by flooding the economy with money.  Reducing interest rates to zero removes the incentive to consume of those on fixed income (as their incomes decline) as well as those earning their incomes (as the negative signal regarding the health of the economy brings caution).  It does achieve higher "asset values" when measured in inflated currency, in that remaining risk capital is forced away from bonds.  Lenders are disincented by low rates for obvious reasons.  If Keynesians were correct, long interest rates would move up instead of down with the short end at zero. 

It is all about incentives.  If  you want to create jobs and spur economic activity, create incentives toward that end:  encourage capital formation and let the markets determine lending and savings rates...rather than redistibute income and repress financial activity with central bank policy. 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:51 | 2601655 fnordfnordfnord
fnordfnordfnord's picture

At least 11 people here can't identify satire.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:45 | 2601802 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Well I can sympathize with your theme, once you accept Quantum Mechanics, you accept Probability.

Once you accept Probability you accept Economics.

The problem with contemporary Economics is Central Banking and Crime.  Tough to get textbook outcomes when the table is rigged.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 22:10 | 2615058 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

But there is a Copernicus of Economics; his name is Bastiat and you can download his writings from the Mises Institute Web page. They are not mathematical models; but rigorously logical analysis full of common sense.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:44 | 2601637 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

We have a strong current assholiness account. It's our only positive balance

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:42 | 2601056 flacon
flacon's picture


krugman:  inflation equals production 



gdp = g


Both wrong.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:37 | 2601066 strannick
strannick's picture

The latins are so civil. Watch as they respectfully, politely and deferentially, call someone an A-hole

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 06:53 | 2601406 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

I believe ZIRP and Fed easing has already went beyond the point of no return.  It can never be ended because the primary purpose of the Fed is to supply government with endless loans, and governent can't pay a normal rate of interest.  We are officially going down the path Japan set out on 20+ years ago, and the economy will never come back under the current monetary regime.  The can will continue to be kicked as far as possible.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:48 | 2601092 brettd
brettd's picture

Spot on. 

That parents are forced/suckered into paying for their children to listen to his fraud should be a crime.

Joseph Goebles would give The Krudman an "A".

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:10 | 2600866 Atlas_shrugging
Atlas_shrugging's picture

Check out 1:32:00... Krugman catches himself in a bit of reality on healthcare, calling continued growth of healthcare costs in excess of GDP impossible...because "We'd run out of money".   Hmmmmmm

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:16 | 2600875 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Debt is money.

As far as healthcare is concerned, ditch the technology and keep the white sheets and blanket. Plus a attending constantly in the ward.

Hospitals are places where people are shipped to decide if they want to live or die. If they are going to crash, they will do it right there on the CT table.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 22:38 | 2615091 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Simply adopting the Canadian National Health Care plan solves the problem immediately; but there is no point in discussing any rational solution because it is impossible. If you try to take the money away from the private health care insurers, as they style themselves, bandits or pirates would be more accurate; they will simply buy the Congress Criturs and prevent this. If you try again, they buy them all over again. This is where you live. This is your country. It has a government by the corporation, for the corporation, and of the corporation. What Obama did, because this is what he agreed to do, in order to meet the criteria for the President Marketers; is sell you to the insurance companies; that's all obamacare is. Fraud and thievery hide behind spin and propaganda and honesty doesn't dare show its face.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:50 | 2600969 JailBank
JailBank's picture

Krugman is a mouth breather.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:15 | 2601030 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Only when he's not sucking the dick of one of his puppetmasters. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:34 | 2601062 economics9698
economics9698's picture

I have to puke now.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:19 | 2600884 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Krugman talking about interest rates, and the lack of inflation due to expansion of the money supply...  Wow, how ingenuous is this b******?  His buddies are busy manipulating markets, LIBOR, suppressing gold, and he has the gall to talk about this stuff?  They are kicking the can down the road, and saying "Others predicted we would have already run into the can again, and yet, its down the road, as you can plainly see..."

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:29 | 2601051 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

I just shook my head when he pointed to "low interest rates"despite QE as if the rates reflected the free market and not Operation Twist Fed manipulation.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 04:42 | 2601341 Tirpitz
Tirpitz's picture

Germany doesn't have an operation twist...

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:59 | 2601055 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

krugman is disingenuous and as such incapable of answering any germane question head on. AD is no longer AD when central planning becomes a massively large component of your D curve, not to mention ZIRP profoundly distorting markets. If economics is about free markets, then krugman is practicing something wholly different than economics; namely, krugman is practiciing public policy with CNTL+P and other fiat gov distorted manipulation interventions; ergo, this brand of economics is anathema to free markets.

This upcoming crash will disprove Krugman yet again and i have little doubt that he will possess the grace to admit that his career is predicated on judgement that is as poor as it is erroneous. 


case in point: how is this economics and not Libor-grade gaming of markets?:

Growth is not something to "prop" up; growth is a function of structural cyclical factors and SAVINGS, NOT GOV SPENDING FAKE FRESHLY PRINTED UP FIAT FOR FAKE AD. You can't spend your way out of debt and into growth. It may appear like growth, but it is flow that has no substance like the SP floated up. And it does not alter consumer credit which is a scary thing as is the component of student debt, since QE is for the insolvent banks and not the insolvent taxpayers that subsidize the private central bank that has a dot gov url which takes in treasury profits yet is not public but whose heads are picked by elected leader despite it all subverting the reserve act of 1913 and the constitution etc etc etc obvious how perverse this game is.....

Think about it on micro micro level: a guy calls up his bank and says, "while I realize I can't pay down the $35k on my credit card, I still need another line of credit extended to me, so that maybe I can pay down the $35k at some point......and i could leverage that $3k credit to buy the thingamajinga that i already bought that obummer may or may not extend me......" Krugman<->Fed = Insanity = Unsound Econ for REAL WORLD SUFFERING

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:30 | 2601597 Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture
Many Wall Street executives say wrongdoing is necessary: survey(Reuters)


"1/4 of wall street believes unethical or illegal behaviour is key to success..." and the other 3/4 lied on the survey.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:54 | 2601843 Kayman
Kayman's picture

"1/4 of wall street believes unethical or illegal behaviour is key to success..." and the other 3/4 lied on the survey".

I spit coffee over my desk !  Beautiful  !

I can't help but notice all the news articles trickling out about how lying is necessary because people "can't handle the truth".

People can handle the truth, criminals can't.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 12:14 | 2602461 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Illegal and unethical (definitely nont the same thing) activities are the key to success, all those uberrich politicians and bankers can't be wrong.


What they should have said was "making unethical activities legal for me and illegal for you is the key to success", counterfeiting money, anyone? Bernank?

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 22:02 | 2615050 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Yes. Very good. Never let a crisis go to waste, etc. Global Warming, etc. etc.The very mechanism of fleecing the ignorant sheep.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:57 | 2600826 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

I won that debate damn it all!

The only solution to the debt crisis, is more debt.

Professor Doctor Paul Krugman

Ivy Leaguer, Economist, Genius, NY Times writer, and All-Around Douchebag.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:23 | 2600896 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

"Ivy Leaguer, Economist, Genius, NY Times writer, and All-Around Douchebag."

I love to see multiple redundancies in a single sentence.

This guy is unfit to work at a grocery store or even run a hotdog stand. 

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:09 | 2601117 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

The perfect candidate for our next Treasury Secretary.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 05:50 | 2601369 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

There is NO Nobel price in Economics or Mathematics. Research yourself. It is yet another scam.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:24 | 2601721 DOT
DOT's picture award given by a BANK. Figures.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:30 | 2600915 bsdetector
bsdetector's picture

Dr. krugman, interest rates have been held low through artifice so you cannot use their levels to justify any of your arguments. You should be able to observe this Doctor and for the fact that you fail to acknowledge the artifice means that nothing you say will be received with any credibility. Please go home Dr. Krugman and start writing books about gardening.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:57 | 2600973 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

He also fails to acknowledge in his first chart that government is part of the problem.  He includes banks in his "layers of crisis" shit cake but forgets, or rather intentionally omits, to add that governments spending more than they take in is the massive elephant in the room.  If deficits weren't a problem then Spain would just have an ever expanding public workforce to keep unemployment low.


It's not that Spain is borrowing too much, it's that they are borrowing at too high a rate. 

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 22:01 | 2615049 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Of course, this is correct. Governments are the entire problem; there is no other problem but the government; there never has been any other problem than the government.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:34 | 2600919 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

That which intelligence giveth, a lack of wisdom taketh away.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:58 | 2600986 FFox
FFox's picture

Hmmmm, let's notice now.... how's that austerity thing working for you JP Morgan/Goldman Sucks, neo-con folk?

An engineered collapse... by the elite, for the elite, at the expense of the working man.  And once they've grabbbed the tangible assets (cars, boats, houses, businesses, companies, gold, silver, high-end whatever (with their criminal capital)... then they hit the inflation accelerator hard!

And everyone is screwed except, you guessed it, the elites neo-con shills who stole the supreme court, and the election of Al Gore... and began wars on false pretense that we're stilll stuck in (because of the elites guy... the wallstreet shoe shine boy Oscamma (placed into position with Timmy G.) by the elite criminal capitalists.

So, yes it would have been better to use those bankster bonuses and give aways on the nation's first  high-speend train... but no... no money for roads here, or anything else because of the military industrial complex pillage... for the benefit of guess who?

Answer:  The master planners who serve the elites... filling the sheeple with misinformation and taking their wool through massive fraud and MSM (main stream media) programming... thus:

"When truth is considered absurbity, the end is near"

So with the upcoming election... the choices will be:  Getting your left hand smashed with a hammer... or your right hand smahed with a bat... workers are screwed (certain) either way. 

So sayeth the Fox.



Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:32 | 2601057 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

FFox, OK, four legs good 'n all, but:

"Hmmmm, let's notice now.... how's that austerity thing working for you JP Morgan/Goldman Sucks, neo-con folk?"

What austerity are you talking about with JPM and GS?  No evidence of anything even close in that direction.  What neo-conz are in that mix?   What are the neo-conz are you talking about?  Susan Rice?  HRC?  panetta?

- Ned

{I'll start thinking about the "steal the Supremez" comment, but 'twere ever so, otherwise fdr wouldn't have tried to "pack the court"}

A reddie on ya.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:00 | 2601234 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

don't play chicken with the gambling house......they have near infinite capital.



Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:29 | 2601743 DOT
DOT's picture

"What austerity are you talking about with JPM and GS? No evidence of anything even close in that direction."

Austerity is for the peasants.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 07:01 | 2601414 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

November is going to be easy for me.  Vote out all imcumbents, write in Ron Paul for President.  I'll walk out knowing I did the right thing.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 21:55 | 2615040 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

The real world is a little more complicated than that. By writing in ron Paul, you throw away your vote. This is exactly what Hilary, (I am a felon), Clinton was exulting over when she complimented Ron Paul on the fervency of his supporters; she was looking forward to the lost vote delivering up the victory for the incumbent; something which we have already seen here in the United States recently; it's a well understood mechanism. In order to do the right thing you must vote for Romney. Why? Because we tried Obama and we know what the result is. As Albert Einstein encouraged us to remember, repeating the same experiment and expecting a different result is stupidity. We need a different kind of crook; a sophisticated crook who is privy to the ways and means of the white power elite business class, and can subdue them somewhat in favor of the people, in order to secure his re-election. Drilling for oil and cancelling Obama Care are all you need to consider; although there is much more. This is the first time in my life I will register and vote in a Presidential Election and I am 69 years old. The country is at stake. There's no time left to goof around.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:06 | 2601189 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

He makes my brain hurt.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:09 | 2600853 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

~40:50 he says of Krugman's drivel "It's homeopathic medicine of the worst kind." EPIC smackdown!

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:01 | 2601235 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

This is the kind of stuff America (mainstream) never gets to see OR understand.

Epic indeed. Stilleto met fat iron ball.

Stilleto won. Hands down.

Supply Side death staring us in the face. Been saying this for over 4 years on record now. About time!


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:50 | 2601065 Alexandre Stavisky
Alexandre Stavisky's picture

Amazing how the simplest conclusions can be confounded by the delusional.  "A man's spirit can pass into another's if touched". 

Dark Arts.  Insolvency can never lead to solvency.  Weakness can never lead to strength by indulgence of further weakness.

But "Yes it can!".  Die Grosse Luge.


The global banking community having adopted benchmarking standards wholesale and correlating all the industry of the world that their flag flies under, have met their simple mathematical denouemont. FROM Ne-mawari de susumu TO Ne ga kusari shinde iru.  A steady state economy giving but a little latitude for generational innovations and inventions (energy, information) should be understood to be bound to epochal rates of growth and move to a steady state.

Instead boom-bust, whipsaw economies.  Only rewarding to practicioners of dark arts.

We have met and passed the peak of a global bell-curve in industry.  The baton was passed from real creators (oil, metals, commodities, information) to paper peddlars (professional gamers).

Since passing the peak would mean structural and multi-generational contraction, and because contraction would mean the end of all growth promoters (entire corporate structure, gov't social program mixed economies), all investment would end.  Why put at risk capital with a negative return? Die all bonds, equities, managers of money.

But no.  Instead (noting the fulcrum separating the two) make a choice between the supreme currency underpinning every transaction of humankind AND the purchases it supports...(i.e. all risk assets--R.E., all bearer instruments, all promissory notes of every colour).  Devalue, denigrate, dilute the currency at whatever percentage point suits your ambitions, while pledging the prostitutionally diluted money proxies at arbitrary expansion to that base of risk assets.

Thereby, NOMINALLY risk assets are seen to rise (and the wide asleep delight in positive returns), just as their purchasing power unpreserved in currency falls away in negative degrees of those same comparative returns.

Loss must be taken.  How to do it?  In slow dibs and drabs of Q.E. (like calling a whore a consort), or in instant step function devaluation?

Which will obtain the ill-gotten from the masses best?  There, that is the choice.

GUISE.  Wonderful guise.  The coffers of the unproductive may still flow from the tin cups of the foolish productive.

If sound money existed, this globe would be surrounded in fire.  With the unproductive trying other expert means to obtain from their efficient brothers.

Canny economists with the "touch" can put the hard-working simpletons into their spell. Until they can't.

Strange concepts erupt here at the meridien of monetary and fiscal policy.

Love, sacrifice, uprightness, honesty.  All gone from accounting and the Columbia Schule.

Who would burn a man's house for geese? GUISE?

And as for the woman in the red dress.  NEO, were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:53 | 2600975 MiddleageThinni...
MiddleageThinninghair's picture

Did I hear right that at about 10:30 into the video Krugman say we are in a depression?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:30 | 2601148 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The title of his book is "End This Depression Now!"

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 00:42 | 2601161 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

St Peter and St Paul finally kissed and made up. I can't see this Pedro and Paul doing the same. Men like Krugman have lead us to hell and men like him would have us roam around hell throwing money at its fires making it even more hellish.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 04:00 | 2601321 verum quod lies
verum quod lies's picture

Much of economics these days, and especially macroeconomics, is a religion. Unfortunately for the Krugmans, Stiglitzs, Summers, … - fill in your favorite ZOG sponsored “economist”- it is a falsifiable religion. That is, most macro empirical experiments have been run (albeit roughly run, but run nevertheless). For example, we know the solution to too much debt isn’t more debt (it’s less or none). We know the solution to too much government spending isn’t more government spending. We know the solution to too much government regulation isn’t more government regulation (captured or not). Etc., etcetera, addnaseum …

What is most amusing is that even though empirical proof directly contradicts him (and others of his faith and academic standing), they continue to talk and write as if there was no real world contradicting them. It’s fascinating in a horrible way, because it has real world consequences, yet it is hard to believe he can maintain such a position. It is sad, but, if we survive this, we will look back and scratch our heads as to what people like Krugman were thinking. My guess is that their hate for traditional U.S. culture and society is so great they kept doubling down on their falsifiable religion until it had a negative impact on them. Thus far, he gets Nobel prizes and tenure for spouting off pure silliness; and is invited to speak (all expenses paid) and justify his court position. For now, he benefits from his lies; let’s hope that soon he will not.


Tue, 07/10/2012 - 07:54 | 2601516 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Did Paul "Professional Blogger" Krugman really just claim that he was doing a good job because people disagreed with him?

Probably so. And the corollary to that is "The only reason things aren't working out is because some people aren't doing exactly what I say". Of course, every economist would be right if that ever happened.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:36 | 2601611 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Poor little Paul. Its hard to hear some truth after being so fellated by the NYT and American Liberals everywhere. The fragile Lil' fella'  just can't take it. He can dish it out, but criticism from an expert bunches his panties so tight he can hardly stand it.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:51 | 2601654 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Why even waste time with these academic fucks.  Academia is not reality. Only the guillotine can save us now...

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:17 | 2601706 vast-dom
Tue, 07/10/2012 - 09:43 | 2601794 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

at 1:50 Krugman equates Donald Rumsfeld's quote "If you are not criticized, you may not be doing your job well" with his own perverse version: "If you don’t make people angry, you’re wasting your time."  Are there no greater words for Krugman to display his twisted brand of misguided priorities to this young audience and the world? 



Tue, 07/10/2012 - 13:00 | 2602582 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

the whole juxtaposition of keynes world view verus the austrian world view is just another fraud.

the idea that you cannot reconcile these two views and still hold banks accountable for fraud, shut them down , and reopen them is just another part of the deception.

demand side and supply side both have their points. but the view that 'economics' is a singular lense with which to view the problems is complete propoganda. economic decisions are not made in a political vaccum.

quite to the contrary the biggest of all economic decisions are almost exclusively political/military decisions.

as long as 'professors' of economics are getting people to spend money to show up to debates. they are all winning. it looks like the austrians are 'agaginst' the keynseians. guess what, it also looks like the plaintiff and defense attorney's are 'against' each other. they are all making money off the pretense of their authority which exists because they both show up at a forum they market to the public as legitimate and worthy of their attention. 

you need to realize the forum is bullshit. it's not legitimate . economics does not Need professors anymore. it needs common sense. it doesn't need 'austrians' versus 'keynesians'. 

look at bretton woods. is that supply side or demand side...? or maybe it's just economics and finance at the end of a gun barrel.

I think---at a certain point one must stop listening to these 'debates' . there is no one who is correct or whose version of the truth there is going to save you [ despite my sympathies with the austrians of course ].

the reality is that the tenure of common sense has left the house. the debate no longer hold meaning. the real answer is to close your ears to these debates but then to open your ears to other debates--political and spiritual and military/police power debates. make your choice. 


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:22 | 2600736 celticgold
celticgold's picture

krugman - smugman

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:34 | 2600772 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:00 | 2600831 i-dog
i-dog's picture

What a despicable piece of listhping, unshaven, lying, slobbering SLIME!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:09 | 2600862 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

C'mon! He's the Comic Book Guy of Economics!!


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:27 | 2600907 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

History will determine that Krugman was nothing less than a snake oil salesman.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:10 | 2601017 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Too many Kugels?


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:22 | 2600738 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Down goes Frazier! Down goes Frazier! 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:40 | 2600784 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

I was on vacation. I must have missed the highlights on CNBC.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:24 | 2600746 Barometer
Barometer's picture

In the face !!

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:24 | 2600747 vmromk
vmromk's picture

Krugman, FUCK YOU and the SCUMBAG Bernanke as well.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:25 | 2600748 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

"I live this shit, man!" - the Spanish Professor

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:55 | 2601102 jcamargo
jcamargo's picture

I lived this shit as well in Brazil in the 90s.

As some ZH readers would say, 

inflationary spiral, bitchez! There is no stopping at 5%, no way.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 07:05 | 2601419 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

And he did keep it very civil.  He could have mentioned Krugman's  propensity to invoke things like alien invasions and free spiderman towels as ways to promote economic prosperity.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:25 | 2600751 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture


the Self-Absorbed are an embarrassing lot.

And they fck it all up, eventually.

They are the Dangerous.

They are to be Shunned.

And We'd better figure that out yesterday.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:26 | 2600753 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

When did Krugman get so fat. Jesus dude really doesn't believe in austerity. 

Krugmans anger is evident as "deference to pedigree" ends. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:57 | 2601105 brettd
brettd's picture

Pedigree indeed!  After giving us Summers, Obama, Roehmer, Geitner & Krugman it's a wonder

anyone wants to go Ivy League any more....

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 10:17 | 2601928 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Kruggy is practising what he preaches.  Living large on your dime.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:28 | 2600757 death_to_fed_tyranny
death_to_fed_tyranny's picture


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:29 | 2600760 Conman
Conman's picture

Krugman's response is typical. He is truly the most vile and condescending piece of crap excuse of a human I've ever seen orate. Add psychotic to that list as well.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:11 | 2600868 khakuda
khakuda's picture

His rebuttal didn't even make sense. Rates have risen in Greece, Spain and Italy. We don't know what they would have done in the US without continual debt monetization, we just know they would be higher.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:26 | 2600904 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture


but it is important to remember there are bigger fish to fry.

Krugman is a Tool. 



Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:30 | 2600763 zero19451945
zero19451945's picture

Paul Krugman: Wrong About EverythingTM

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:36 | 2600776 HD
HD's picture

That's Nobel prize winning, Lollipop Guild member Doctor Paul Krugman - Wrong about Everything.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:47 | 2601642 Acet
Acet's picture

Just want to remind everybody that the Nobel prize in Economics is not a real Noble Prize since it wasn't setup by Alfred Nobel - it was actually setup much later by the Swedish Central bank "in honor of Alfred Nobel" (who was probably turning on his grave because of that).

So the "Nobel" prize of Economics is pretty much just a circle-jerk kind of thing: a bunch of people from a pseudo-science setting up a prize for their own area and calling it a Nobel prize.

It's just as worthy a prize as a Nobel Prize on Astrology would be.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 00:43 | 2604940 Demonoid
Demonoid's picture

It's a prize from a bank. FROM A FUCKING BANK. Goes right along with the paycheck from Enron.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 00:45 | 2604942 Demonoid
Demonoid's picture

Also, was that a piece of scrambled egg stuck in his greasy bank-supported, Enron-consulting beard?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:30 | 2600764 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

LOL, he's not used to being criticized! Krugman's body language vs. all the other panelists speaks volumes.

Thought he was going to stroke out, smug little groundhog.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:34 | 2600765 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Yogurt has taught you well, and I see that your Schwartz is as big as mine.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:37 | 2600778 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

May the Schwartz be with you.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:31 | 2600767 HD
HD's picture

Krugman is a zealot. As is the Fed and most bank CEOs. They have no interest in any opinion unlike their own and will not accept any other reality.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:47 | 2600799 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

While I don't agree with Prof. Steven Keen's suggested fix for our economic problem, he absolutely blows away the garbage economic models of Krugman, Bernanke, et al, here:

Capital Account Interview


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:35 | 2600774 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Krugman is the biggest turd by far in the punchbowl of economics.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:42 | 2600785 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Krugman just won the Nobel for Graceless Impudent Spoiled Brat. 

One can tell that he was raised being praised all his life and never told to "SIT THE FUCK DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" especially when it was needed most.  A perfect example of a child that needed corporal punishment more.

This video presentation is a case study in narcissistic sociopaths who can't handle criticism.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:38 | 2600937 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I'm going to disagree about the always being praised.  Something tells me that this worm was picked last for every team he ever played on.  It was said of Stalin, "he always wanted to be tall".  So many of these academic worms wished they had been strong and fast and good at baseball.  Driven to bitterness they look to destroy to get revenge for their time spent in rightfield. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:03 | 2600994 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I doubt his parents let him near any of those "violent sports" that the dumb jocks play and had doctors notes for gym class.  It may well be that he's bitter but it's more likely a sexual inadequacy issue.  Probably always wanted to be just like his mom.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:44 | 2600791 khakuda
khakuda's picture

So fun I can't stand it. How the F do you find this stuff?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:45 | 2600950 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Go to 1:45:00 and listen to this asshole talk about inflation.  The word "fun" will not come to your mind.  This guy is an evil, evil being.  The road to hell is paved by The Paul Krugman Local 453.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:43 | 2601080 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

What's truly frightening is that people like him often run the economies of countries.

This guy is  Nobel Prize winner yet he says utter moronic things like pointing to low US interest rates as proof that printing doesn't cause high interets rates. Is he even aware of Opperation Twist manipulating rates?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 03:04 | 2601282 Ted K
Ted K's picture


In fact the "twist" does not increase the money supply, that's the whole point.  This is why some people get degrees and honors and others feel the world is "truly frightening".  Often ignorance is not bliss, it's fear of something you don't understand.

And you clearly don't understand.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 08:42 | 2601634 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Where exactly does the Fed get all the MONEY that it uses to purchase assets?

Couldn't the Fed simply purchase every asset on the globe at 10 times the price and put an end to all suffering forever? ( or 100 X or 107 X price?)



Ellsworth M. Toohey has nothing on Krugman.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:47 | 2600796 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I have a feeling the banksters are blocked in by heavy bets against them on all sides and they do not have the money or means to pay. In other words the ice will start to crack like the safety glass of a windsheild, very soon, unless markets are held within smaller and smaller ranges.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:47 | 2600800 reader2010
reader2010's picture

He's worse than the used asswipe. God help us.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:47 | 2600960 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Was I the only one that threw up a little in his mouth when he was so energetically complimenting Alexander Hamilton?  This guy is a Hamiltonian / Lincolnite through and through.  He believes in large central government and central planning and freely admits it.  This guy is as un-American as anything you will ever see.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:47 | 2600802 S474NtheD3v1L
S474NtheD3v1L's picture

this is gold jerry, gold

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:59 | 2600832's picture

Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it Roundtine.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:48 | 2600965 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Why do they call this "economics", Jerry?  The theories are bullshit.  The people are deluded assholes.  They should call it "Go Fuck Yourself".

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 03:07 | 2601286 Ted K
Ted K's picture

I was baffled about part of your ZH id name.  Are you sure you're from WestVillage???

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:48 | 2600803 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Krugman always was a mega-pompous faggot.  He just broke up with Geithner and went with Blankfein... is there no trust in Governmant anymore?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:48 | 2600804 Cycle
Cycle's picture

Paul Krugman's performance solidly earns him his own display case in the Museum of the Self-Revealing Bozo.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:50 | 2600807 Melin
Melin's picture

That was fun.

Why did two of the men defer to Krugman's judgement as to how the debate should move forward after Schwartz spoke? 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:36 | 2600929 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

They probably paid this dicksmoker so much they felt they had to listen to him. 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:54 | 2600811 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

So, then, where's the big inflationary bonfire the Austrians have been predicting is "within 6-18 months" for the last several years? 

ROFL.  Krugman and the saltwater school's predictive record WIPES THE FLOOR with the Austrians.  Earth to the Austrians:  the model you are using doesn't match reality

If everyone saves, there isn't enough liquidity in the economy.  So, we get results like a whole generation of recent college grads; energetic, trained, but they can't learn to put their training to work, can't earn, can't spend, if they start a business no one is ready to buy their products.  When your theory 1) misses large segments of reality such as the above and 2) has no predictive power, it's time to reconsider things.  As Henry Ford said nearly 100 years ago: plenty of skilled people who want to work, plenty of people who need to buy things - but the bankers standing in the middle. 

Where's the inflation?


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:00 | 2600836's picture

At the supermarket.


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:19 | 2601036 Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

No effing shit. The "where's the inflation?" team isn't looking very hard to the point of cluelessness.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:08 | 2600856 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

You're trolling, right?


Look at the Commodity index -- point the deflation to me...

Look at Gold, show me growth in paper

Look at the bond market, show me demand net of the Global Central Banks

Look at the budget deficits and monitization of debt by central banks and governments - show me any REAL growth (not nominal -- that would be inflation and disprove your point)

The Austrian model is bang-on.    What you are witnessing is a final gasp by governments to prop things up with a failed theory before the collapse - and a pitiful job it has been

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:19 | 2600877 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Show me demand net of the CBs?  Are you high?  IBM just sold 7yr bonds at a RECORD low rate, and 3yr at 0.75%.

I'm sorry - WHERE's the inflation that your Austrian model predicts?  Austrians have been claiming we're "at the final gasp" for decades (see "Kurt Richebacher" and "Paul Volcker").  Austrian theory is bang-on alright: bang-on 180 degrees wrong in predictive power.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:29 | 2600911 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Do not feed the trolls

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:36 | 2600920 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

IBM can sell 3yr debt at 0.75%, and I"M trolling??  Try presenting a FACT to support your case. 

Austrian "economics" is about as logical as bleeding sick people "to rid the body of bad humors".

WHERE's the inflationary meltup that the Austrians have been saying is "any minute now" for decades?


Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:44 | 2600948 akak
akak's picture

Trying to idiotically claim that IBM's debt being sold at unrealistically low rates in an enormously central banker-manipulated interest rate environment is somehow proof of "deflation" is, well, so disingenuous and/or clueless that only a diehard deflationary flat-earther (or Keynesian true believer) could make it.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:48 | 2600966 reddweb
reddweb's picture

its the result of QE/printing ad-nauseum. What do you do when you get ZIRP ? Its Ben's plan to force "savers" to spend. (else they lose by negative or ZIRP rates). It doesn't mean printing money is "working" LOL.  It just means "savers" are being forced/$aped into spending their money (trying to find yeild). 


Keynesianism is indirect way to socialism. which explains why krugman LOVES it. Distribute the wealth from savers to non-savers.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 01:32 | 2601211 Seer
Seer's picture

Ever see where hyperinflation has NOT resulted in the collapse of a currency?

It's loss of faith.  And as they used to say in Soviet Russia: "they pretended to pay us so we pretended to work."  Moral of the story: if the currency is worthless than so too will be the labor.  Lost "faith" in a currency, which hyperinflation will bring about, starts with inflation.  It should be pretty clear that all money pumped out for worthless assets is pretty much the same as the pretending to work because you're being paid in pretend money.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:59 | 2601275 rex-lacrymarum
rex-lacrymarum's picture

The Austrian position on 'inflation' is far more complex than your (or Krugman's) one-liners imply. Have you read Mises? I rather doubt it. To begin with, the Austrian definition of inflation is 'an increase in the money supply', not 'rising prices'. The US true money supply TMS-2 has risen at 10% annualized or more for 44 months running. Since January of 2008, the US money supply has increased by nearly 80%. There hasn't been a bigger monetary inflation in such a short time period in the entire post WW2 era. 

The effect of inflation on prices depends not only on the increase in the supply of money. It also depends on the demand for money (cash balances) and goods-induced effects (increases in economic productivity tend to lower prices). Moreover, money is not neutral, this is to say not all prices will react in the same manner to monetary inflation, as it depends on where in the economy the money first enters. Some prices may be rising strongly, others may even be falling. What is certain is that all prices will be higher than they would have been absent the monetary inflation. There can be considerable time lags before a vast increase in the money supply has a more noticeable effect on most, or even all prices. For instance, the strong rise in prices in the 1970's was preceded by strong monetary inflation for several decades. However, monetary inflation will most definitely distort relative prices in the economy, and thus lead to malinvestment and the boom-bust cycle. Furthermore it has redistributive effects, as exchanges of 'nothing' (new money from thin air) for 'something' (real goods and services) are set into motion - and this will redistribute real wealth from later to earlier receivers of the new money. One thing monetary inflation can never achieve is to increase the aggregate wealth of society - it will definitely decrease it, as scarce resources will end up wasted. 

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 02:11 | 2609074 Indrid Cold
Indrid Cold's picture

Beautifully said.  Thank you.


It's important to keep in mind that in common use, 'inflation' means rising prices, when in fact, properly used, it refers to inflating the money supply -- which in fact has been going on for a long time. 


So the Keynesians/Krugmanoids get away with claiming that there is no significant 'inflation' -- nice, eh?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 02:23 | 2601245 amadeusb4
amadeusb4's picture

CRX is the same price it was in 2007. Gold is acting like it's 2008. What am I missing here?

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:25 | 2600902 t0mmyBerg
t0mmyBerg's picture

You apparently suffer the same blinders-on vision problem and short-termism that Herr Krypton also suffers.  When the yardstick you use to measure includes the G as in GDP = C+G+I+NE then yeah in the short term it will seem like the sky is falling and yeah there will be a period that seems painful.  But a year or two of really pusillanimous "austerity" - ie, reduced G - which on your flawed yardstick seems terrible, is not enough time to gauge the effects.  It will take a while of real cuts and reducing the footprint of G to put things right.  When they start to go right well then V will kick up a notch and then the liquidity holding pref will quickly make it necessary to ratchet up FF or you will in fact see HI down the road and in spades.  Of course it hasnt happened yet, it wasnt expected to by anyone with a clue.  Lots of ideas conflated here but suffice it to say that throwing good money after bad may make the flawed yardstick look good in the immediate term but will greatly reduce aggregate wealth of society (something not measured by the tragically flawed yardstick) in the intermediate and long term, something Krugman and his ilk just cannot seem to grasp.  He wouldnt make a good physicist or geologist as his concept of time is apparently flat and limited to the very near future.

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 22:38 | 2600934 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Hmmm- Ignorant or troll? 

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 23:48 | 2601094 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Why not both?

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 04:03 | 2601323 jazze
jazze's picture

"If everyone saves, there isn't enough liquidity in the economy."


Thats so obviously wrong. Savings ARE liquidity. WithOUT savings there is no liquidity.

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