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United Welfare States of America: In 2011 Nearly Half The Population Received Some Form Of Government Benefit
While politicians may debate whether or not America is the most "generous" (with other generations' money of course) socialist welfare state in the history of mankind, the undoctored numbers make the affirmative case quite clear and without any chance for confusion. The single most disturbing statistic: in 2011 nearly half of the population lived in a household that receives some form of government benefit, which in turn accounted for 65% of total federal spending, or $2.5 trillion, and amount to 15% of GDP. And yet some people out there still think these people, long since indoctrinated to do little but mooch off the welfare state (which will continue subsidizing its existence so long as debt rates are so low that the government can issue trillions each year without fears of consequences) will halt their iTunes purchases, will voluntarily stop subsisting on the government's teat, or will rebel against a government which is their only source of income? Why? Especially since something tells us that there will be a peculiar overlap between this 50% and the 50% of Americans that pay zero taxes.
Of course, this chart should be observed in conjunction with the "What is this?" chart we presented two days ago from Morgan Stanley which pretty much explains everything about the US "economy"
From John Lohman
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You are aware that sarcasm is the lowest form of humor ?
it ages badly.
Knock yourself out, spend every dime you have.
Print yourself wealthy, it's worked MAH-velous in the past.
Ok, Bobbodobo. So they get drug tested. Then they fail the drug test. Guess what happens next?
Welfare stops. You move in with mom or accept charity. If you can afford drugs you clearly don't need welfare and if you're using welfare to buy drugs than you don't need welfare either.
Mom's a crack addict which is why I's on welfare and is a crack addict. Charity? Fool! The only charity 'round here crackeye is a knuckle-sandwich and a brown pickle, mofo.
Then get your shit together or end up in jail. It's not my, or anyone elses responsibility, to support your drug habit.
I can't gets my shit together, man. My shit's too heavy, brother. And if I's goes to jail who supports me in da can, crackeye mofo? You does. So I's never leave welfares do I's?
Maybe you just continue and end up as lawn fertilizer soon, you and your brown pickle.
I say do away with welfare. Let addicts die. Heck, round up all the unproductive poor and euthanize them. /sarc off
Sartre said it best "Hell is other people."
What we have is a structural problem in our governance. This will always exist as long as the few get the most for the doing the least and using those that do the least to keep them in power.
Very simple but we have these complicated models to explain what has been going on for centuries.
Problem is, drug testing is too expensive. Florida stopped drug testing because it wasn't cost efficient.
Exactly, and, who gives a shit if the person picking up trash along the highway is stoned? I hear this b.s. too much lately. If someone has to perform a duty to receive a welfare check, that is not "volunteering" - that's just a shitty job. But, I agree, people should have to spend x amount of hours doing something to collect. We let all the convicts do the shit that people on welfare should do to earn their keep. If they earn their check, then who cares if they decide to spend it on drugs? Their problem.
You don't want to go down this route. It would have dire social and economic consequences. I'll put it in perspective for you on a micro scale. There's only about 20 million prisoners in the US. Prisons and they out compete all local labor so much so that they have a monopoly on the areas around them. If you put welfare recipients in the workforce that are working for foodstamps they'll outcompete almost the entirety of the blue collar labor force. This will cause more and more people to lose their jobs which means more people on the foodstamp labor force. Before you know it everybody will be working for foodstamps. It'll be just like the Soviet ration economy. If this ever gets implemented USSA here we come.
"...we could cut taxes for employers who would in turn hire more people. "
In fucking China.
Hire more people? Only if the "people" have disposable income to begin with...no business is going to hire unless there is a reason to.
There's a greater menace no one talks about: structural unemployment.
capital owners can redirect investments at a rate faster than classes of workers can acquire new skills {avg 4 years of college/uni/training & 50K in debt). So with each boom & bust cycle, and easy credit, hot money flows into new ponzi schemes, and bubbles, flowing out of traditional industries, and workers are laid off.
The structural gap is widening. @ 7% compounded interest, you will be 2x better, after 9 years, than your neighbour who has financially slipped, and wasn't able to invest. This problem is accentuated with central bank intervention, and easy money, which wallstreet uses with abadndon.
A lost decade will further bifurcate America, and set up conditions for many civil unrest.
I went back to my hometown over the holidays. It was bleak.. So many mom & pop businesses are out of business. I was so crestfallen.
Hey Krugman, maybe we can all stop working and the government can just print us all nice fat checks, build us all 2000sq ft condos, supply everyone with cars. Nobody will need to work because the Chinese can produce everything for us. Why do we need a productive society when the government can provide everything. GDP ain't real if 15% of it comes from government transfers. That also means 15% of the productive economy must be sacrificed to provide the revenue for next years 15% worth of transfer payments. There is nothing left to say but, you are wrong on every level and it is an insult to intelligent human beings that you are considered by some to be part of that group.
You are surely being facetious. It isn't about free anything. On the contrary. It is about getting out of the ditch. Your plan of having the government serve you milk and cookies in a hole isn't my plan. My plan is to provide productive tools to the economy. That means offering solutions that can stimulate job growth. It is like a dog chasing a rabbit. Without the rabbit the dog wouldn't run.
Dig ditch.
Fill ditch.
Repeat.
Problem solved!
Well if Bush hadn't dug the ditch...
The ditch was already there. It was dig by the Civilian Conservation Corps. (CCC).
long DBS
ditch backed securties
Who had 23:50 in the "Bet on when Krugman will blame George W. Bush" pool?
You my friend are on the wrong side of ditch digging and filling. I'm one of the three guys watching as you dig the ditch and refill it. You also happen to be paid less than we are to stand around and watch you digging and refilling.
dig ditch, throw krugman in ditch, fill ditch
cap with concrete
Install out house shitter pipe in concrete, cap with toilet seat, then feed the troll once a day.
The rabbit is always there idiot. The dog (the workers) are tired of chasing it down only to get the rabbit taken away by the owners and the entitlement classes. See, I can use clever analogies too.
You just don't get it from your ivory tower because you don't do the fucking work. your best hope is that your head is on a pike at the end of this. Maybe then you will have better ideas because the shit will have drained out of your dense cranium and you will understand how people don't like being slaves.
wow, real classy. thanks so much for raising the level of discourse in here.
Hey, he is talking about how we need more debt slavery to solve a problem his class of folks created. He doesn't get it at all. Thought it would take a more dramatic turn of phrasing is all.
I ask you this Mr. Concerned about being classy:
Does it upset you that a cabal of "wise" old unelected men can determine the value of your labor and assets with the push of a button? If not then you must be one of the few beneficiaries. I am not a fan of collectivism or unions but I sure am not a fan of a group of folks living high on the hog just by printing money and using the military/police/IRS to make us all take it.
Many folks are fed-up with this. Maybe not a majority but many more are becoming aware of our monetary system and beginning to realize how it works.
Milk and cookies may not be the economists' plan, but it sure is the government's plan. As soon as the economists say we need to stimulate growth, the government ramps up the handouts, and that alters people's behavior in undesirable ways. The Affordable Care Act does not even have an asset test for its subsidies like Medicaid did, so now high net worth people can get government handouts too. When the time comes that the government needs to dial back its spending, it will be politically untenable—because of too many voters on the dole. It will be just like the Russian Duma in '98. They had a solid plan on the table, but there was no political will. The brinksmanship of the past year over the debt ceiling clearly shows that we are headed down that same road.
Well you are correct about something, yes; it is about getting out of the ditch, the ditch the Govt blindly dug! The Govt needs to stop digging and let the free market provide the productive tools the economy needs, as the Govt is clueless when it comes to productivity. Individuals need to learn to run to avoid mediocrity, starvation and ultimately death, not chase fairy rabbits that the Govt is taking out of their pockets with one hand and giving back with the other. I prefer to think of it as being chased by a steamroller, now that is motivation!
Krugman, Keynes here...
Shut up, you have already given what is left of my life's work a bad name.
I am off to Austria,
Later,
K
i would like some assistance from the Government in the form of keeping all of my earned income. What would the economy look like then Dr. Krugman??
Because something has worked before is no guarantee that it will work again. Especially when the stakes have been raised as they have been now.
The recovery you speak of took place when the world was less interconnected, less interdependent. Now it all moves as one. This is the fatal flaw of globalism.
Is Krugman really Krugman?
If so, it proves that a Princeton degree and a lifetime of studying economics can't hold a candle to a group of independent thinkers using an internet forum to inform themselves on the state of finance, economy, and the world.
Fuck off Krugman. If you like debt so much, put your children into it. Look them in the eye, tell them they have to be debt serfs their whole lives. If you don't have the guts to do it, take your hypocritical bullshit elsewhere.
Are you really that stupid to begin with or did you learn to be that gulible in college?
Here's a hint :The jig is up on "fairytale economics"
Dr. Krugman with all due respect, your full of shit. The banking elite cockroaches benefit from cordinated suppression not the people you speak of sir.
If there was a wimper of honest thought put into bringing our bankrupt system out of this mess, money would be flowing into small and medium size businesses to spur job growth period.
As you can see from the high amount of replies, your opinion is quite controversial. What you're talking about is called Keynesian economics and I don't doubt that a lot of people here would normally not have such an aversion to it, was it not for the fact that in modern times this theory is heavily abused. It doesn't serve as a simple 'push' anymore, debts don't get paid off but we borrow even more. The result is an economy speeding towards a cliff while the time to use the brakes becomes less by the day.
More spending might have worked a long time ago but at this time it's self destruction.
Fall,
I agree. The only ones that benefit from Money printing are the Bankers that create Money from 0 and then collect Interest indefinitely from the Money created from 0.
Knock it off with using the name of a real living person as a screen name. (the real "Absalon" died hundreds of years ago) You are not literate enough to pass yourself off as Krugman.
As to the substantive point - that Federal assistance includes social security and medicare for retired members of the middle class and that is where most of the money goes. Medicaid to provide medical coverage for poor people is another big chunk both of money and beneficiaries.
The original poster should have the balls to not say: "we are spending too much on too many" but rather say: "I would cut X benefit from Y group"
Best ZH troll since HarryWanger.
Dr Paul Krugman and Milliondollar are the best instigators of conversation on ZH, funny as hell ( unless they are serious )....
both, but the 1% get 99% of the joy of the fiat
money, the 99% get the debt of it. it is the system.
Those 44 million people on welfare will not pay a dime of the debt and don't really give a damn about the economy as long as their bills are paid by the working taxpayers
sun tzu, sure that is the problem, the 44 million people on welfare.
sounds like you are ready for the ultimate showdwon with the darks, huh, Art of race War anyone?
G
The Food Stamp President distributes generously across all racial lines so that "darks" idea won't work.
race pimp much? shove your head up al sharpton's ass where it belongs.
You are a viciously racist cunt aren't you?
Americans are actually too stupid to divide along racial lines.
The idiot whites throw away their money to cheer for the blacks at the all important football and basketball games. They then go and waste their time volunteering in Africa. Not to mention the idiot Mexicans and Asians, who, feeling "oppressed" by whitey, throw away their proud cultures and do their best to imitate ghetto blacks.
The only racially conscious group in America is the Jews, but they have a fatal flaw. They've never asked themselves this: if they bankrupt America, who is going to support Israel?
that's easy, america will be re-named new israel
welfare goes to corporations, banks, defense
contractors, foreign countries as well as
those on food stamps and unemployment. and then
you have the entire political class, the political
parties, the think tanks, the students etc.
and then you add the government employees.
now you add the trades people, services that
are hired by this established system of pay
and credit. there ya have it. 100% derived
from government benefits of some kind. it is the
money system, debt based, issued as credit/debt
to be paid back at interests to the banking system.
the more the banks make the less there is that is affordable
to the rest of the economic actors as the issuance of
more credit increases the prices of the things people
need and want.
The Welfare State and their Keynesian fiat economies are in a bad romance.
If you need government assistance to eat...you are a scumbag mooching off the system.
If you take massive government bailouts to pay yourself obscene bonuses for fucking the nation senseless...you are a "job creator".
That's what the fascist call "Capitalism".
that's what the socialists claim is capitalism. real capitalism would have allowed the bankers to rot and die. the socialists bailed them out
you betcha!
i could set up a "vote" but i think you both have a point
he: be careful of a "bankster/corporate" double standard!
you: look! i mean capitalism! not propaganda about capitalism!
this article presents the individual transfers [is a salary a benefit here? let's say not for now, if it matters, "for the sake of argument" L0L!!!] and the "welfare programs" and we may have a few problems here and there. this trend is not our friend!
but before we solve them, let's look at other subsidies. purchases, and programs, too. tyler is correct about these just being facts, but be careful talking about "parts" of the budget in isolation. and tyler mentions "taxpayers" almost as if individual recipients don't pay taxes. if someone is getting assistance, s/he still pay sales and excise taxes which may be, for one person, more tax payments than a dozen of the fortune 500 put together
i don't know, i'm just trying to make a point there, ok? pardon the hyperbolic b.s. on my part too, ok, tyler?
this is poverty and there are more new-vo poor than neuveau riche right now, and many of them usta be middle-class, too!
i really don't think there's anything more "wrong" with them than any other "class" of people and i don't think they're responsible for our systemic economic problems very much at all. many people receiving retirement benefits or VA benefits or disability are not poor, at least compared to those qualified to receive "welfare". then again, a heluva lotta them are poor, too! like any other "groups", it depends on how much you get, too, doesn't it? whether you're poor or not?
as for your post, i also think it is time to defend capitalism, too, because it is getting pushed around worse than the poor! most of what has happened ain't capitalism or even fuking close, but we are getting the obits and post-mortems as if capitalism somehow is the problem
capitalism is not the problem
"capitalism" is the problem!!!
the poor, the retired, and the handicapped didn't repeal glassSteagall, blow up the RE and mortgage markets, and loot the Treasury
and neither did capitalism! if the banksters and politicians caused these problems, perhaps the solutions lie in dealing with them about wtf they are trying to pull here!
Where are the prosecutions of the "banksters" by the Holder justice department?
Is that social justice?
To eat? Tough for someone to sell that here....
We produce so much food that we burn it for fuel.
Anyone know how many people on government assistance have digital television, computers, cell phones and HD flat screen TV's?
++>> food>>>fuel!
as for the "people on government assistance", you seem to assume they all have a place to live
careful there, mrBones!
I would say from experience, ALL of them. I have a property in an area that is mostly Sec 8 Housing. Their Flat Screen TV is the same size as their Living Room (Huge). They get everything paid for, Housing, Food, Energy Assistance, Health Care and yes, even free Cell Phones and minutes. So, most of the Money paid to them for Welfare is just spending Money, to do with as they chose.
During the Summer all they do is to sit on their front portch all day and socialize. Although, I was really impressed with one of them. She had her childred go around and pick up the trash around the house every day. First time I have ever seen this. Plus, she would sweep her side walk every day.
Food stamps are a great deal for mega corp agriculture,methinks,
how much trickels up to the same old pockets? quite a lot.
No food stamps is a great deal for Walmart and the giant food chains like Giant Eagle. Soon to be a grea deal for fast foo chains. You can already use SNAP for Pizza Hut in LA.
Fast food chains were approved not long ago for food stamps. There is no "stamps" anymore. They just get a charged up credit card. The joke is at Wal Mart grocery stores that the registers really get going at a certain time when the states charge up the cards. I think it is Midnight on the first day of the month or something.
Hope & Change with the Democrat's Allah.
and good for 7-11
JPM
runs the food stamp
credit card system ..
wonder, at what %..
2% according to urban legendTM
i'm too lazy to look it up, too!
those debit cards are the "maintenance" expenses of the "system" and 2% admin ain't bad, but that is a personal opinion only
let me explain:
joe6er gets $200 SNAP debit/mo X 2% (.02) = $4/mont OR $48 per year to the morgue for this card & service. more or less
when joe6er applies for this "welfare", how much does it cost to process his application to see if he qualifies? how often does he need to qualify? a person must qualify and apply for all these assistance programs, as far as i know. this work is done by human services and social workers all over the country is it not? these people need offices, computers, secretaries, supplies, postage, paychecks and benefits
probably more than 2%, huh? if joe get $2400/year and must qualif every six months and it costs $200 to qualify him via his Xy-page application, does that seem extreme? i don't know, but this is exactly why i like the idea of a negative income tax where you file w/ the IRS for tax credits (debit card) maybe by computer and they issue it subject to review or something
maybe joe6er had a job last year and hopes to get back to work, soon, but actually qualifies to receive a SNAP card, right now. let's get it to him as efficiently as we can, is what i'm saying
if 50 million of these lengthy applicaions are filed and individually reviewed each year, before approval, what does that cost? whatever the # of apps, i wonder how many don't get approved?
"we would like to report that no applicants were harmed, wounded, or hospitalized in the application process this month, but there were 8,000 welfare-induced psychoses in the nation last month also at public expense, and 142 successful suicides"
just kidding...Hahahaha!
Let's not forget the unemployment bennies - in this neck of the woods (bible/bread belt), Citi is the issued card that gets loaded every week. Nice .gov contracts to the TBTF crowd.
Hope & Change with the Democrat's muslim.
(post under review by DHS)
The 99% get inflation, DWTS and ESPN and the 1% have confiscated billions in real estate and other hard assets, which is their main objective. Looks like a win-win to me.
Karl Marx had a term for these people: lumpenproletariat
People so low in class level that they are being screwed by the system, yet at the same time they are dependent on the system.
So is the 99% or the 1% on the receiving end of this?
Depends on which kind of welfare you are talking about.
http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/ebt/ebt_status_report.htm
Both, JP Morgan is the main SNAP contractor.. Tangled is the web we weave..
This will all end badly, I like most of you am primarily interested in the timing.
The American Revolution was maybe 15% of the population. The "Tories", who wanted to stay with King George were the strong majority. My point being it will take only a non-silent determined minority to end this nonsense.
The vast majority of Tories weren't dependent on handouts from the crown. They "supported" the crown because it was hearsay to do otherwise. Not because they got some material gain from it. At this point, a collapse is necessary to spur a die off or at least force the dependents to take care of themselves. Only then will a rebellion be affective.
"The American Revolution was maybe 15% of the population"
Only 3% took an active role in the American Revolution
"The single most disturbing statistic: in 2011 nearly half of the population lived in a household that receives some form of government benefit."
Why?
Of course this fucking financial crisis is the fault of those that need government assistance to eat. Doesn't that make perfect sense? Were it not for these useless eaters and those fucking poor people, everyone would be a Jamie Dimon...Right?
Fucking assholes.
What was the point of this article? What purpose does it serve? To inform or distract?
Seriously...what's the goal here? What's the thrust?
TJ is speaking from the grave in this article.
“Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ
of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition."
Thomas Jefferson
Perhaps. Or maybe it's Rudyard Kipling:
......And the brave new world begins when all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins.
R. Kipling, 1919, The Gods of the Copybook Headings
On a side note, while perusing through the comments under any article about food stamps and/or government assistance, I'm always amazed by the deep and intense level of disgust and hatred felt toward the poor and needy. Here, let me summarize and speak for everyone: "If only we could FUCKING KILL all the poor people - who are NOTHING MORE THAN PARASITES ON OUR SYSTEM - all of us could live in much deserved prosperity and peace!"
And the right-wing wonders why everyone loathes them so much.....
Max Fischer, Magnus Frater te spectat
Maybe if there were no government hand outs for any one, that would be a great start, no individuals, no corporations. Why should it be government's role to do this? I ask this as a person who used to very much believe in the system (I really did, benefitted from it too).
There will always be the poor. And giving to the poor is a virtue which should be practiced by those who are not afflicted with poverty. This generosity will be met with gratitude from the needy, and gratitude is also a virtue. The problem with socialism is that it is a perversion of morality. Forced giving will not accrue as a virtue to those who give, and it will not instill gratitude to those who receive. It will instead produce the "disgust and hatred" that you talk about (from both parties to the transaction).
Giving to the poor also creates good uncle tomming. Yours is a very eloguent way of expressing Dick Cheney's et al trickle down economics and a form of society we practiced in different parts of the world generations ago. It's called fiefdom. Of course Dick Cheney described the same system this way: "Go Fuck Yourself!"
Really, do you buy your own bullshit. You see it happening all over the world. Big business displacing millions of small businesses creating massively increasing GDP wealth while simultaneously creating ever increasing poverty. How do you think Sao Paulo went from 8 or 9 million to 22 million in 20 years time. It wasn't until the ConAgra's, Monsantos, etc... started moving in, kicking small farmers off their land and out of work. India, while getting richer and just as much an economic power as China, is also experiencing farmer suicides in the tens of thousands per year. It is happening here everyday. Wal-Mart built their strategy on it -- move into small towns first to put the small businesses out of work and creating a more efficient pipeline to Chinese made goods.
You know if the government stopped empowering the wealthy to become more wealthy your theory might be acceptable but that is not the case. Look at any large industry in a community and it is easy to see how the government is corrupted to serve that industry. Look at marijuana. Do you think it is illegal because it is a drug as bad as heroine or is it illegal because hemp production was about to cut into Hearst revenue stream from timber or big oils revenue stream from synthetic fibers; And today big pharma's revenue stream from pain killers, anti-nausea, anti-anxiety, and appetite stimulation.
What bill is being passed today to separate food from the FDA and create the Food Safety Administration -- a bill that would essentially put every small farmer out of business and illegal to sell vegetables from your back yard garden to your neighbor?
I'm not about to extend my hand for a freebie from anyone. That combined with the current inefficient distribution of wealth around the world can only mean one thing -- revolution You displace enough people and then start preaching to them the virtiues of being totally dependent for life on the good graces of a few people who pay off our government and that is what you are going to get.
Well the point is that we're going bankrupt. And part of the reason why we're going bankrupt is all of these government programs.
Mind you, it's the wars and the Fed and bad policy all around, to be sure. But you can't escape the math - eventually, if you keep on taking and taking from those actually working and supporting themselves, and keep giving and giving to those that aren't, eventually you'll destroy everyone.
Actually, the fact that we have Jamie Dimon on the one hand and a gazillion dependent serfs on the other goes hand and hand. That's how it's designed. We no longer have a large, productive middle class.
Correct me if I'm wrong but...doesn't Jamie Dimon (JPM) make money off "food stamps"?
Look it up.
You're just too fucking stupid. Go away.
JPM and food stamps:
http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/who-really-profits-bi...
The thrust is, the point is, that the dependance is by design, the dependance is the desire of the designers, they desire that you come to them, cap in hand,and ask then for help, they gladly help,with the sweat of your brow and the labor of your children mortgaged.
They create the circumstance the need and the poverty and when you are eating shit with the chickens they will throw you a bone and you will be gratefull, they will always be your master and you will always be their servant.
That is the point, the thrust, the truth, slave.
"The thrust is, the point is, that the dependance is by design, the dependance is the desire of the designers, they desire that you come to them, cap in hand,and ask then for help, they gladly help,with the sweat of your brow and the labor of your children mortgaged."
They create the circumstance the need and the poverty and when you are eating shit with the chickens they will throw you a bone and you will be gratefull, they will always be your master and you will always be their servant."
Harry Brown who ran for President several times used to say "The government breaks your leg, then hands you a crutch and says "see, if it weren't for me you wouldn't be able to walk!" I miss Harry. No one before or since, in my opinion was better at exposing US socialism for what it was.
How does one domesticate animals? By making the animal reliant on the master for food.
Yet there are fucking idiots who see nothing wrong with tens of millions of people dependent upon the government for their basic necessities. These fucking evil bastards love the sight of soup kitchens and poverty.
Dude, I think your banana hammock is too tight. It's cutting off circulation to your head, and making you mad....
You're a fucking moron if you see nothing wrong with the fact that half the population depends on handouts to survive. That means there are not enough jobs, the economy is shitty, and when this welfare state collapses, a shitload of people will have no skills needed to survive.
You're so fucking stupid that you have to ask what the point of this article is?
Chick's that talk like drunken sailors are hot.
You're like a dog chasing a car...you wouldn't know what to do with it if you caught it. Another internet tough guy spewing his impotent vile shit all over the airwaves. Swinging his microscopic member under a magnifying glass swearing it's really that big.
You are a sad joke.
Perhaps without the bailouts Jamie Dimon would be one of those receiving government assistance.
America: Land of the free, and home of the brave!
that's tragically comical.
This is a main reason why it will be hard to get rid of Obama. You think any of the 69 programs will stop before the election. And it is true, with interest rates as low as they are, just keep printing. Those that rely on govt. benefits will not vote Obama out or Paul in. Not until the funding crisis hits will any of it change. Just gotta deal with that and not get too livid about it. The facts in this post speak many words.
Monopoly,
So, we need to get rid of Obama and everything will be allright, huh?
Idiots like you who think that a Republican is different than a Democrat are the reason US is doomed.
Please dude, get real.
G
If you think there's no difference between Obama and Ron Paul then your head has been stuck up your ass for the past 3 years
You gotta give the mice a bit of cheese every now and again.
The Obama Legacy: No Hope, No Change, No Jobs
This is America you don't see in the news -- No Jobs in Chicago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UTGh5iMXtc&feature=youtu.be
(someone else posted the clip on another thread; lots of profanity)
The stats by state would be interesting, South Carolina explained,
California would be interesting too,
I hear that the border patrol in Cali now call themselves 'Bean counters',
a more fitting job description.
IQ, a fitting description of you would be racist bastard, with all due respect of course.
G
A fitting description of you would be a piece of shit that dripped from a whore's asscrack and stained the mattress
Is that bad? and FYO, i'm not a racist but any mention of ethnicity to the likes of you will be met with knee jerk responses desired by the .gov and MSM.
Any comment shedding light on the reality is met with a blindfolded denial of racial traits or impacts of cultures on society as a whole.
Mexico for example is an utter paradise, rich in so many ways, where the nationals are even today trying to emmigrate,at all costs, even to a bankrupt Norte America,Mexico remains a 3rd world country because it is full of Mexicans, Africa! don't get me started.
So if I receive military disability and retirement as well as a paycheck from a government contractor should I consider myself on three welfare rolls? Not to mention the welfare mortgage tax exemption, student financial aid, and my kid's Tricare. Did I leave anything out? Oh yeah, the part where in another three years I'm turning my house back in to Fannie so I can retire in a third world country so I don't have to listen to pompous asses tell me I'm a welfare king.
I believe the VA compensation is more rightly called a payoff, to keep vets (that know how to fight and shoot) from getting pissed enough to rebel.
The rest is cheese, you rat.
You're such a fucked in the head brainwashed moron that you think a person who keeps a little bit of his own money is on welfare. Pieces of shit like you think that all labor and property belongs to Washington DC and any money that a person earns rightfully belongs to that jackass 0bunghole and his goons from Shitcago. Keep living like a slave you bootlicking piece of shit
Does anyone else find it eerie that last time the Giants played the Pats in the superbowl was the beginning of the market meltdown? History rhymes right?
Well, bet on history to repeat. Take NYG and the points, and short the financials this year. Even that's one game the Fed or Wall Street can't rig.
I'm not so sure about the books in Vegas. Perhaps they have a criminal element as well? Just a theory. ;)
The only difference is grandma and grandpa stopped playing the markets.
Pay enough of the common folk off, and they will fight to assure your survival; at least until the $$ runs out.
Since it is fiat, hypothecated from nothing, how can this cakewalk ever come to an end?
The illusion of democracy and only vague memory of our Republic.
Endless fiat = endless dilution. The con doesn't work if the free money keeps pace with inflation, and if it doesn't, it progressively buys less and less.
This will end. Just as every fiat before it has. When you notice that steep exponential rise at the end of every financial chart you know the end is approaching. We can't predict it with precision thanks to the smoke and mirrors, but there is zero doubt in my mind that it will.
That doesn't scare me. It's the shit they'll try to pull when this is going down and immediately after that scares me. That's what the NDAA and expatriation act are all about.
And then trillions are spent on other peoples wars! Sad!
yup, i'm sure we are going bankrupt ! what the hell ! when you give trillions & trillions away to bailouts for banks in Europe & the U.S. , we're sure as hell going bankrupt. it's got nothing to do with the peanut change that little old ladies need for groceries. & if there were JOBS IN THIS COUNTRY, people could work for their income. FUCKING GOV'T & WALL ST. POLICY .... FISCAL MISMANAGEMENT & OUTRIGHT THEFT & FRAUD on WALL ST. & the CITY .......... yea, we are going bankrupt & the looters & thieves need to be strung up, not starving grandma & children.
it has everything to do with all kinds of welfare to people and corporations. no able bodied person should be sittin gat home on welfare. they should have to perform community service. no business should be bailed out. let them fail and another will pop up in their place
One interpretation of Mayan texts predicts 2012 will be the end of the Welfare State.
So do veterans' disability payments fall under "cash assistance" or is that one of those things that just isn't included because nobody would count it, as it would be ridiculed to death?
Either way, I KNOW I earned that cash!
There seems to be a shift taking place in ZH. A disturbing and heartbreaking shift.
Alas...all good things come to an end.
I hate bankers as much as the next Zerohedge reader, but let's get real. If the 99% actually understood the terms of their enslavement there would be a revolution tomorrow. The fault ultimately rests on them.
And whom is this article defending?
Defending? Actually this is one place where the class warfare you so eagerly seek will not be found. What this article is telling you, if you took your partisan hat off, is that the system is on collision course. It is unsustainable, as much due to untenable leverage, as due to exponential social funding.
I'm not seeking class warfare...this does not, however, mean it does not exist and is not taking place. And given the reality that this warfare is taking place, I have taken a side. We all have. Not the same side to be sure, but irrefutably, everyone takes a side. Some nakedly, some stealthly, but nevertheless...a side is taken.
Tyler,
I disagree but would look at the figures once SS and Medicare are removed.
I am a CPA/CFO and figured that I would have enough money after 40 years of work to payout a 30k pension and assuming taking out 1/25th a year principle, a lot more.
I will not get nearly that in Social Security.
Put the cash back in SS and Medicare that funded 5 wars and then talk to me about welfare.
G
You're one fucking stupid CPA/CFO. If you really knew your math, the $1 trillion spent on the Iraq and Afghan wars would be a drop in the bucket of the SS/Medicare deficit coming the next 20 years. The fact is no country has been able to fund a government pension without massive deficits. Look at Japan, Greece, Spain etc. - no wars and still massive deficits.
You're just fucking stupid.
Personal Income excluding government transfer payments:
http://the-compass.org/2012/01/20/whats-this/
Really? Anyone who watches TV or pays for cable/sat TV is a f**king sheep that keeps the elites in power. If you watch TV and are too lazy and/or stupid to cancel it to hit back at your overlords then you are f***king useless.
Many morons know they are slaves but they love their clicker and the HD 1080i brainwashing.
The fault lies with the victims for letting the bankers steal and not punishing them? This somehow excuses the bankers?
There's a sociopath talking.
Actually no. ZH continues presenting all facts equally and without prejudice.
These are the unspun numbers - of course, one may prefer numbers not be presented in the first place, in which case other media venues would be far more suitable.
While the numbers may be "unspun"...it's hard to deny the spin in the text.
Go back to your lame stream media you retarded fuckwit. Green shoots and goldilocks economy make you idiots happier.
Half the fucking country cannot support themselves and you're pissed off at the messenger. Unless you think these $1.7 trillion deficits can continue to infinity, these people are going to starve to death when the ponzi scheme collapses.
ZeroHedge has been running stories like that since it exists. Some were far more vehement and there was not so much uproar in the comments. Zerohedge has changed, but much more in the leftist inclination of the comments over the last year than in the libertarian inclination of the articles.
While banker welfare is problematic, welfare for the "poor" and the "minorities" is just as problematic, if not more, and the latter is precisely used by our shadowy masters, along with the entertainment and media industries, to quell any possible popular revolt (violent or electoral).
This being said, being for or against government welfare is much more about your vision of the world -- your Weltenschauu -- than about logical arguing.
Some people think that poor people don't want help, they want work, social ascension and dignity ; some others think that we should look at the causes of poverty rather than looking at artificially correcting poverty ; some others think that there is no problem with government welfare.
Personnally, I tend to believe in the first two statements and not in the third. But I will not attempt to convince you.
Note: I've temporarily broken my "cover" to answer this, as you may have noticed.
Thanks for breaking your cover. And I appreciate the thoughtful answer. I tend to largely agree with you on this in particular:
"Some people think that poor people don't want help, they want work, social ascension and dignity ; some others think that we should look at the causes of poverty rather than looking at artificially correcting poverty"
This is a big topic. The problem can't be solved by providing welfare. However, if needed welfare is taken away, then the scale of the problem will rapidly multiply. If people think things are bad now...take away food stamps...then you'll see true chaos and violence.
I agree, but you still have to consider why they will get violent. My personal opinion is that people have been recieving money from the government for so long that they think they deserve this money, ie. that they are owed this money.
I think that the only logical / useful thing that we can do for this country is to end the welfare programs and have charities fill the voids. The reason is that people won't be able to miss the fact that someone else had to give money for them to recieve it. With the current system we have no attachment between taxing and spending, so no one can see the loss that allows their gain.
Do you know what you are talking about? I don't think so. I don't think you realize how bad it is. I've worked all my life (since 11yrs old). I'm from Vegas and have worked casino pools, rodeos, restaurants, various start-up companies, etc... But today I'm unemployed. One of my older brothers got sick, ultimately died and I took care of him but today there is almost no way to get back into the job market. My other brother has to work two jobs to make up one full time job. He does not have healthcare insurance as family coverage would exceed $1,000/month. As it is he is now in his 50's, working as much as 10 days straight with overlapping shifts and as little as 4hours sleep (a recipe for a heart attack).
I can tell from your post that you are thinking 50% of this country just sits around with their mouth open screaming feed me and that it is easy street for them. You couldn't be more wrong.
BTW. I take nothing from our gov't, niether does my brother or his family.
Here is a possible solution for you. Let's just change the wording of welfare. Let's call it what they call when the give welfare to big corporations and the rich -- incentives.
Good post, Hamy. I will add that taking a side on this issue is unreasonable. At these high levels (regardless of the precise values), there is clearly a dire imbalance in the system, and ultimately no group wins in that situation. Various factors have resulted in a lack of jobs and impoverishment of a far-higher-than-normal percentage of the population. Historically, such conditions have not resolved easily. The handouts may be critically important for immediate survival, but it is also a type of moral hazard and degrades many otherwise responsible people.
As much as I detest the thought, I defend the right to express and hope that their will be more like this and the pro-Newt article (classic).
Challenge reveals character and refinement of thought.
As the zennists say, be thankful for the weeds in your life.
G
Tyler,
Are these UNSPUN NUMBERS? Who the fuck is John Lohman and exactly where did he get this numbers? What is included in his definition of benefits? Is Social Security and/or Medicare included or excluded? Do total payments to individuals include or exclude wages to government employees, soldiers,sailors,etc.?? Did those receiving benefits contribute wholely or partially toward their funding for payment?
Numbers and pretty graphs without context and without clear definitions of what they represent and how they were derived are NOT facts.
TD, I think you're way off base here. There are structural inequalities that have never been addressed that have resulted in the current economic clusterfuck, and while it's easy to point to "unspun numbers," the fact of the matter is that few have benefited while many have lost.
The structural inequality never seems to be addressed, here, or anywhere... I don't believe in blaming the victims, but I see it here frequently.
I am quite certain that in 2011 more than half of Corporations in the United States received some sort of government welfare, even if it was only through the Fed's policies.
If you want to be truly objective you would compare the benefits both groups receive from the government, including all externalized costs which groups do not have to pay for in the now. Then compare that trend over a period of time to determine the truth about the state of our nation.
No, no sir, sorry, but that is not the problem.
If you believe it to be so, you must be the person that wrote the
pro-Newt rant.
Many of these government moochers had 7.45% of their salary withheld for years and are recieving SS, baby boomers a mystery to you?
That is not welfare, sir.
The employer, of course pays in a similar amount, which is de facto salary otherwise availabe to labor.
You are like the man being consumed by quicksand, killing a fly with an elephant gun.
The quicksand is the banker backed miliary industrial complex.
But, I know, figures lie, and liars figure.
So, with all due respect, fuck your iTunes rant, you racist bastard, with all due respect, of course.
G
That 8%ish salary withheld fr years would only cover about a couple years of payments. Remember for quite a long time the average yearly salary was south of $10k for current SS generation. If 50% of the population doesn't work and 90% of the working class makes minimum wage, that isn't a lot to draw from. My grandmother gets $1100 a month in SS. Most workers pay less than $80 in witholding taxes. Do the math on that one. What will you have when most of the boomers are collecting? Obviously not enough workers to foot the bill.
Not only that, but the payroll taxes haven't always been 7.65%
The age of 65 for receiving Social Security was established when SS was set up in the 1930's. Back when the average life span was 65. So -- on average -- no one was expected to collect....
Amazing the SS Ponzi has continued for as long as it has.
Ok, sorry, but I call foul.
" long since indoctrinated to do little but mooch off the welfare state"
Utter nonsense. Suggesting that people that "receive some form of government assistance" do little but mooch off the welfare state is rank propaganda.
Student loans, food stamps, WIC. The VAST majority of these people are the working poor. And most of them can not wait to get the hell out of a situation that requires them to jump through all sorts of "WEEDER" hoops to get their marginal assistance.
I'm pretty libertarian, and I'm not a big fan of welfare of any sort, but drawing equivelancies between people that "live in a household that gets some form of assistance" with people that "do little but mooch off the state" is just bullshit.
Not to mention that they "at some point in 2011 got government assistance".
I've simply met too many people on assistance that work Fucking HARD.
I have met too many people who game the system. As a matter of fact they make a pretty damn good living at it. All they do is fill out the paperwork , maybe go to a couple hearings and they are set. Then to top it off they work for cash under the table. It's pretty damn disgusting to me. Welfare is supposed to be for people who fall on hard times. It's not meant to be a way of life.
That goes for corporate welfare too. If a company can't survive on its own it shouldn't exist.
You mean you're not supposed to have 6 kids with 5 different men of 3 different colors, like my wife's niece?
She missed the memo: http://tv.breitbart.com/homeless-lady-with-15-kids-somebody-needs-to-pay...
And I've BEEN and LIVED WITH far too many people that "live in a household where at least one member gets some form of assistance". Treating the 50% of people that happen to LIVE WITH someone who; got foodstamps for a month, or a discounted medical treatment when they cut their fingertip off at their deli job; or is some grandma whos on disability who had to move in to the spare bedroom while everyone else in the "household" has a job (or two), as though they are all parasites, merely for living with someone who got assistance at some point in the year, is rediculous, and honesly is only the perogative of the arrogantly lucky.
Disability is government assistance. Tell me that all the laborers, and every single person that lives with them that got disability at some point during the year, are parasites living off the system. I dare you.
I've lived in hispanic agricultural communities. I've stood in line with them at the grocery store, I've taken my kid to the same ER as them. They may be getting SOME help from the government, but they also man, woman and Child, spend 10-12 hours a day in a field getting sprayed with poison so the people that call them parasites can have cheap strawberries.
I've also met people that ARE professional parasites on the system, but claiming tht 50% of the American population is essentially parasites living on the system, because they live in a household where someone at some point in the year got SOME form of government assistance, as if they are doing NOTHING to get ahead or benifit the community is sheer CLASSIST SNOBBERY.
Last time I checked you need to pay back student loans. In fact you end up paying a whole lot back than the sum borrowed. A pitiful savings for a mortgage interest deducton is nothing compared to paying $325k for a $125 loan over 30 years. You have obviously never seen the ease most of the "working poor" get their assistance. There is a billion dollar legal industry created just to get welfare queens the money they think they deserve. If employers know they can get away wth paying $12k a year because the worker can apply for another $20k worth of assistance, they aren't ever going to pay more. The low class worker is never going to try for more because they will lose the easy assistance. Sure go tell the worker t get a $35k a year job so they have to pay $5k for health insurance, bear the brunt of triple digit inflation in food, forget about home energy assistance. I've never met anyone recieving government assistance that works hard. I've also never seen anyone try to get off it once they start sucking the government tit. Working poor is having a wife and kid with a $50k salary, not a minimum wage scumbag with a $200k section 8 townhome, bran new Chevy Cruze, 50" TV and two Xboxes.