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US Climate Update: Warmest 12 Months On Record

Tyler Durden's picture


The Northern Hemisphere just experienced the all-time warmest June on record, at 2.34°F above average. The average temperature for the contiguous U.S. during June was 71.2°F, which is 2.0°F above the 20th century average, contributing to a record-warm first half of the year and the warmest 12-month period the nation has experienced since record-keeping began in 1895. Scorching temperatures during the second half of the month led many cities to set all-time temperature records. The nation, as a whole, experienced its tenth driest June on record. Record and near-record dry conditions were present across the Intermountain West. Over 170 all-time warm temperature records were broken or tied during the month. Temperatures in South Carolina (113°F) and Georgia (112°F) are currently under review by the U.S. State Climate Extremes Committee as possible all-time statewide temperature records. According to the U.S. Drought Monitor, as of July 3, 56.0 percent of the contiguous U.S. experienced drought conditions, the most since records began.

Globally, the US is anomalous...


but it is the entire Northern Hemisphere that is bathing in the heat...

As rain (or lack thereof) remains a massive problem...


With some of the craziest anomalies ever in the US...



Source: NOAA


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Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:32 | 2622371 drink or die
drink or die's picture

At least we have a new culprit to blame for the bad economy...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:53 | 2622463 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

yeah, it's Bush's fault. /sarc

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:56 | 2622469 FEDbuster
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:58 | 2622481 Western
Western's picture

Warmest 12 months on record, does that mean I need to pay an extra tax on top of my tax to some bank in Switzerland run by the rothschilds?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:02 | 2622490 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

I think we're gonna need a new hemisphere!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:07 | 2622506 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The AGW crowd is missing their right and left hemispheres.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:26 | 2622594 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture


The only country that doesn't believe in global warming is the only one getting fried.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:51 | 2622711 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Most Americans realize the truth, but ZH seems to attract more than its fair share of climate denialist crackpots. Anyone who has any actual interest (and not the fake interest of an oil company troll) must read through

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:03 | 2622743 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


A lot of the best research on this topic comes out of American institutions, I wouldn't worry about what a few brain-dead idiots on zh think. What difference would it make if they did understand the basics anyway - a bunch of uneducated morons aren't exactly going to be the difference maker in finding ways to combat ocean acidification etc. 


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:49 | 2622897 White.Star.Line
White.Star.Line's picture

With this low opinion of ZH posters, I'm suprised that someone of your intellect would spend any time here....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:00 | 2622932 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

What about the southern hemisphere?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:09 | 2622961 knukles
knukles's picture

Ignore it.
Toilets flush backwards down there.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:20 | 2622997 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I have one of the best carbon tans of my life this year because of all the extra carbony days..

I think that has something to do with the 11 year “carbon cycle”, or the “carbon maximum “or carbon UV radiation or something like that.

Maybe I can use a #2 pencil to fill in the strap lines on my backside.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:35 | 2623178 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I think you can trade your carbon tan credits for free rainforest nuts and fruits down at Whole Foods?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:19 | 2623349 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Al Bore got his money and his hookers, Obama is president, and there is no media coverage.  Those Yids are just so clever.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 12:08 | 2624558 redpill
redpill's picture

Whether the planet is warming and whether humans are causing it have very little to do with the motivations of those attempting to impose centralized economic control upon the planet, and every single one of us by extension. Don't be fools and subject the human race to perpetual slavery based on this. The insatiable appetite of globalist authoritarianism is far more of a risk to all of us than a few degrees in temperature one way or another.

And it's worth noting in terms of direction, we should all be incredibly thankful it's getting warmer instead of colder.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 04:18 | 2623383 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

Alright this needs to end once and for all.









All of the planets in the solar system are heating at exponentially increasing rates.  All of them.

This isn't manmade.  This is stellar forces at work.  So stfu with ur carbon taxes illuminati retard shit.

Goddamn fuckin retards get a stupid consiracy in their head, and b/c 9/11 turned out to be true,

they wanna pretend all conspiracies are true.


Just accept the fact that you don't know what is causing it.  It doesn't help that our activity is contributing to the earth's heating,

but it is clearly a solar phenomenon.  fucking DUhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 06:44 | 2623440 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 All of the planets in the solar system are heating at exponentially increasing rates.  All of them.

Some (fairly reputable) links would be appreciated.

My problem with your assertion is that the outer planets have extremely long 'years' (ie, time to complete their orbits)... Saturn 29 years, Uranus 84 years, Neptune 164 years.... and Pluto (recently relegated off the planets list) 248 years,  I fail to see how we can be sure any of these latter three have been seeing their temperatures increase 'exponentially' given the fact we haven't been closely or accurately monitoring them for anything like their entire orbits.

Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty skeptical about most AGW claims, but I think there's too much misinformation being promulgated by both sides.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 09:15 | 2623832 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I suggest you read the following history

In particular

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 10:06 | 2624002 BigJim
BigJim's picture

  ...A final nail in the coffin of scientific skepticism came in 2005...

In the first decade of the 21st century, international panels of experts reviewed the evidence, and announced conclusions that were checked by virtually all the major national science academies, scientific societies, government science agencies and other bodies representative of scientific expertise. All these bodies agreed that the world faced a serious problem; all recommended that governments adopt strict policies to restrict greenhouse gas emissions. (All, that is, except a few self-appointed panels composed primarily of people with limited expertise in climate science, representing ideological and business interests that opposed all forms of government regulation.) Individual climate scientists, while almost unanimously in agreement with the consensus in its broad outlines, continued to argue vehemently over details, as always in frontier research. Critics pounced on every apparent discrepancy. They published long lists of scientists who denied there was any problem — although the lists included hardly any scientist who had made significant contributions to climate research.(58*) Debate over policies to restrict emissions grew increasingly intense.

This is your idea of objectivity?

There's a reason it's mainly non-climate 'science' scientists are often the most vociferous AGW skeptics. It's because they practice empirical-based science, are intimately familiar with what is considered good and bad science, and they can't believe the hypotheses of climate scientists are being treated as actionable, let alone settled.

It's a bit like the skepticism physicists have for Keynesian economics. Oooh! They're not economists, their opinion is worthless! All politicians and academics are in consensus that the correctness of Keynes' ideas is settled!

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 10:35 | 2624134 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sorry buddy... but the SCIENCE is settled and has been for a *long* time.... the uncertainty in the predictions is driven by the experimental uncertainties in the DATA...

Unless you don't think we can do IR spectroscopy and are confident that 125 years of thermodynamics and quantum mechanics is wrong....


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:09 | 2624310 LowProfile
Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:17 | 2624344 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

My you are a persistent little troll....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:47 | 2623367 Karl von Bahnhof
Karl von Bahnhof's picture

Climatic warfare bitchez

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:47 | 2623084 Landrew
Landrew's picture

I am living in Chile now for the next three months. The reservoirs are empty and the water is going to be rationed. I am working on a mountain 7.3k and there is no snow in the middle of winter here. At 11k there is very little snow with patchs of rock showing and melting by day. I have worked here for the last two years and I haven't seen anything like this year.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:57 | 2623109 Nassim
Nassim's picture

Yes amigo, that is because there is a La Nina event going on. Have you not noticed. Over here, in Melbourne Australia, our drought ended 3 years ago, when the Nino became a Nina. Please don't blame it on global warming or whatever, it has always been so. India's monsoon is tied in with it and the records go back many hundreds of years.

Here is the chart you should be checking out


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:26 | 2623353 Gatts
Gatts's picture

I didn't get the impression that he was relating the melt to global warming, just making an observation over the past few years in his experience.

How long will it be before your drought returns and how long will it last? 10yrs, 20, 100?

Hope your prepared or will that 'fiscally responsible' govt. save you?


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:45 | 2623364 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Climate change readings ‘inaccurate’


A climate change group has taken the National Institute for Atmospheric and Water Research (NIWA) to court over what they say are inaccurate temperature recordings.

The New Zealand Climate Education Trust – a branch of the NZ Climate Science Coalition – are challenging NIWA figures which show a rise in temperatures in New Zealand of 1degC over the past 100 years.

This figure is significantly higher than global warming figures around the world and the trust is questioning how NIWA calculated the figures and whether they are accurate.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:00 | 2624141 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Challenge them in court....LOL

Why don't they challenge them in scientific journals with a defensible analysis of the data? Oh, could it be because they are full of shit?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 07:13 | 2623483 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

As long as you have SPF 1000 your good.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:11 | 2622968 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 I wouldn't worry about what a few brain-dead idiots on zh think

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:30 | 2623033 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

The Earth has had 5 ice ages...what caused the earth to warm when it came out of those ice ages? Could it be simple climactic cycles?

BTW: Here is a PRECISE temperature recreation back to the Roman Empire...uh oh, it's a cooling trend:

Science and facts and's a bitch for those statist control freaks.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:56 | 2623107 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Why waste your time with facts, sound scientific analysis and rational thought? The fact is wall street wants global warming as an excuse to implement a new global taxation program. So get with the fucking programme already.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:38 | 2623186 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Wall Street takes advantage of a lot of things.  Is LIBOR no big deal because WS says so?  Does the CDS mess not exist because WS profits?  

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:35 | 2624418 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes, I love the logic that some corrupt institution is gaming off it, so all related concepts are false. Last time I checked, that's every subject. And of course, the oil / carbon industry doesn't play games, pay senators or twist numbers or arms either.  

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:41 | 2623192 long-shorty
long-shorty's picture

well, the good news is that as abnormally hot as it is this year, if it averages half this abnormally hot for each of the next 10 years, it will be pretty clear that we've more than reversed your 2,000 years of global cooling in less than half a century. so then you can say "temperatures have been stable for the past 2,000 years." and 10 years after that, you'll probably be able to say, "the amount of warming, when averaged over the last 2,000 years, is quite small." it should take a good 25-30 years at least until you realize you were wrong, and by then you'll probably be old enough not to realize it.


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 04:49 | 2623395 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



Climate was HOTTER in Roman, medieval times than now: Study

IPCC has got it all wrong, say boffins


10m years ago there was less CO2 - but the Earth was WARMER

Warmth and carbon 'decoupled': 'A surprising finding'


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure The Register is not an American enterprise...


btw I'm not up on the UK lingo, so what's a "boffin?"

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 06:03 | 2623417 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

It's a kind of bird.  Extinct, or soon will be.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:07 | 2624298 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Why don't you link the original paper and the press release?

Then this week, the Mail Online demonstrated that it had learned nothing from the episode when it misrepresented a new paper on 'Orbital forcing of tree-ring data' by a group of German, Swiss, Finnish and UK scientists, published in the journal Nature Climate Change on 8 July.

The study describes a reconstruction of summer temperatures over the past 2,000 years in northern Scandinavia based on an analysis of tree rings, concluding that there has been a gradual cooling trend over this period and that regional temperatures during Medieval and Roman times may have been warmer than previously thought.

Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz, Germany, issued a press release about the new paper on 9 July to publicise the role of one of its staff, Professor Jan Esper, as lead author of the study. The release provides an accurate summary of some of the key points under the heading 'Climate in northern Europe reconstructed for the past 2,000 years: Cooling trend calculated precisely for the first time'.

Somewhat predictably, the press release was picked up by climate change 'sceptics', who are obsessed with the Medieval Warm Period in the profoundly mistaken belief that if it can be proved that global average temperature was higher than today about 1,000 years ago, it will overturn the many lines of compelling evidence that emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are causing the Earth to warm now. The current evidence suggests that some parts of the northern hemisphere may indeed have been as warm during the Medieval Warm Period as they are today, but it is not clear that it was a global warming.


Could it be that because the Murdoch owned Daily Mail is deliberately twisting the facts?


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:37 | 2624432 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Murdoch would never do such a thing.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 04:59 | 2627264 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



Flakmeister's link said:


"but it is not clear that it was a global warming."


I guess it's possible that Zunli Lu and colleagues are also influenced by Murdoch, but I doubt it...


Medieval warming WAS global – new science contradicts IPCC



A proper temperature record for Antarctica is particularly interesting, as it illuminates one of the main debates in global-warming/climate-change: namely, were the so-called Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age merely regional, or were they global events? The medieval warmup experienced by northern Europeans from say 900AD to 1250AD seems to have been at least as hot as anything seen in the industrial era. If it was worldwide in extent that would strongly suggest that global warming may just be something that happens from time to time, not something caused by miniscule concentrations of CO2 (the atmosphere is 0.04 per cent CO2 right now; this figure might climb to 0.07 per cent in the medium term).


The oft-mentioned "scientific consensus", based in large part on the work of famous climate-alarmist scientists Michael Mann and Phil Jones and reflected in the statements of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), says that isn't true. The IPCC consensus is that the medieval warming – and the "Little Ice Age" which followed it – only happened in Europe and maybe some other northern areas. They were local events only, and globally the world was cooler than it is now. The temperature increase seen in the latter half of the 20th century is a new thing caused by humanity's carbon emissions.


Lu and his colleagues' new work, however, indicates that in fact the medieval warm period and little ice age were both felt right down to Antarctica.


“We showed that the Northern European climate events influenced climate conditions in Antarctica,” says the prof, who was at Oxford when most of the work was done but now has a position at Syracuse uni in the States. He and his colleagues write:


This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic Peninsula.


In other words, global warming has already occurred in historical, pre-industrial times, and then gone away again. Lu et al's work is published in the peer-reviewed journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters. ®



Personally I think there is global warming/climate change but that it is a natural cyclic thing(looong cycles) and nothing to do with the activities of man...I'm wondering if it's connected with precession which is a 26,000 year cycle, and also natural cycles of the Sun itself??


There are many hints that it's not just global warming, but planetary warming as well...but I'm not a scientist so I'm just speculating.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 08:39 | 2627522 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Oh you mean this paper and author?


Three months ago, I wrote about a researcher, Dr Zunli Lu, whose new journal paper was misrepresented in an article published by the Mail Online, after it was transmitted through the echo chamber of climate change denial. Dr Lu took the unusual step of issuing a statement to explicitly refute an article about his work in the Mail Online, which grudgingly responded by making some minor amendments while still refusing to correct the most egregious errors.

An official objection was made by Mr Philip Bell, and the Press Complaints Commission ruled last month that the article was in breach of the Editors' Code of Practice. But rather than correct the errors, the Mail Online simply removed the article from its website without posting any explanation or apology.

Wow.. the article was ruled to be in "Breach of the Editors Code of Practice"......

Or maybe you could read this for more info

Hell, here is Lu's statement from Syracuse

So are you are a fool or a liar?

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 18:15 | 2629960 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture


From Lu's statement:


We clearly state in our paper that we studied one site at the Antarctic Peninsula


The original story at

(Title: Scientists use a rare mineral to correlate past climate events in Europe and Antarctica)

does not seem to me to refute my previous post. In the original it has this:


They compared the results with climate conditions established in Northern Europe across a 2,000-year time frame. They found a direct correlation between the rise and fall of oxygen 18 in the crystals and the documented warming and cooling periods.


We showed that the Northern European climate events influenced climate conditions in Antarctica,” Lu says. “More importantly, we are extremely happy to figure out how to get a climate signal out of this peculiar mineral. A new proxy is always welcome when studying past climate changes.”


Now to me, if European climate events influenced climate conditions in Antarctica I would surmise that these effects carried just as far in other directions...hence a global event. No? After all Northern Europe to the Artic is a hell of a lot less distance than NE to Antarctica.

Sounds to me like Dr. Lu has been experiencing some pressure from those who have an agenda, and he kinda sorta responded to that pressure with his statement regarding the supposed misrepresentation of his work. A statement that doesn't really refute the supposed misrepresentation. The original story I linked above was straight out of Syracuse University whom Lu is now affiliated with and you can clearly see the statement that Lu makes that I highlighted...That is not coming from The Daily Mail or The Register. He also mentioned "past climate changes."

The facts are that planet earth has been as warm or warmer previous to man's industrial with it. Personally I think it's a natural cyclical thing.


btw Huffington Post vs. The Daily Mail...I think we have a Mexican standoff there.


As for Bob Ward I'm sure he has no iron in the fire, right?


Bob Ward is policy and communications director at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at London School of Economics and Political Science.

Wed, 07/18/2012 - 19:25 | 2630092 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Sounds you you don't have a clue what you talking about and are grasping at straws...

Take some advice and *really* learn the science and history of climate change...

The "SCIENCE", i.e. thermodynamics, isotopes, chemistry etc... was nailed down ~100 years ago, and we have just be waiting on the DATA and the overwhelming interpretation of the DATA is that we are anthropogenically warming the earth via the massive release of C02 in a geological tick.... 200 years for 1 Gigatonne of C02 is comparable to the rates required to explain massive changes to the biosphere observed in the past.... 

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 05:00 | 2630963 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



I think that bankruptcylawyer nailed it elsewhere in this thread as to the reasons you and others are bound and determined to link the cause of this current cycle of climate change to be the fault of humanity and its technology. He posted:


there is a big difference between understanding that there is a propoganda war about the meme of global warming because of the political ramifications it has for disparate taxation and regulation reasons ---------that being naked corporate energy lobbying for private interests, versus naked lobbying by government to increase its authority and taxation power and job excuses--versus other industries that seek to make money off of global warming hysteria like wall street pushing credit trading, al gore pushing books, and solar energy companies pushing anything that will help their bottom line.


In other words, it's just another way for the usual suspects to profiteer using bogus justifications.


Even Obama and his Goldman cronies saw it wasn't gonna fly and shut their CCX(Chicago Climate Exchange) down a year and a half ago.



The Chicago Climate Club Gets Capped



CCX was cofounded by Richard Sandor, a former research professor at Kellogg when the school received the Joyce grant, along with former Goldman Sachs ( GS - news - people ) CEO Hank Paulson. The group got off to a blazing start, with hundreds of companies, including DuPont ( DD - news - people ), Ford and Motorola ( MOT - news - people ), rushing in with agreements to buy and sell rights to emit CO2 above a legally binding quota. At its peak in May 2008, CCX was trading 10 million tons of carbon permits per month, causing the price of carbon offsets to rise from $1 per ton to a high of $7.40 in mid-2008. Time magazine called Sandor a "hero of the planet."


The actual operating system for CCX trading was provided by deposed former Fannie Mae ( FNM - news - people ) head Franklin Raines, who had purchased the technology rights. Raines had become an expert in bundling bad subprime mortgages, and the technology was ideal for bundling worthless air credits.


Al Gore's longtime pal Maurice Strong, leader of the U.N. Rio de Janerio Earth Summit and a key Kyoto Protocol architect, was a CCX board member. Speaking in Rio, Strong left no doubt about his priorities: "We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrial civilization to collapse." Another board member was Stuart Eizenstat, who led the U.S. delegation to Kyoto.


Several partner companies positioned themselves to capitalize on the CCX carbon-trading markets. One was Al Gore's Generation Investment Management LLP, a London-based firm established in 2004 that invests money from institutions and wealthy investors that are "going green." GIM planned to purchase lucrative CO2 offsets when anticipated federal government regulations were passed to mandate cap-and-trade.


Gore's co-founding partners in the venture are former chief of Goldman Sachs Asset Management (GSAM) David Blood, along with Mark Ferguson and Peter Harris, also of Goldman Sachs. Bloomberg reported in March 2008 that the investment fund had hit a hard cap of $5 billion, and had been turning away investors.

Thu, 07/19/2012 - 09:50 | 2631562 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You do understand you are commiting a fallacy known as "Appeal to Consequences"....

Moreover, if what you claim is correct, can you demonstrate a clear connection between CCX monies and the scientific advocates of AGW....No you can't because it is patently untrue....

Contrast this to the well known ties between academic "skeptics" and the fossil fuel industry...

Sorry, but you had better figure out what the best way to deal with C02 is given your ideology... I don't care how its done, as long as it is done...


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:33 | 2623047 Freddie
Freddie's picture

A few of us know how corrupt those "institutions" are especially American universities.  It is all about grant money an dmore grant money.  US universities are as corrupt as the bannksters Mr. Sandusky.

Ever hear of La Nina, El Nino and Los Ninos?  Plus solar radioation?   Effing maroons.

We are going through El Nino right now.  It will pass.


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 01:50 | 2623132 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Freddie is now using big words...

So in your judgement, just when did the current El Nino conditions come into being?

Perhaps you should read

and get back to me, kay?


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 07:17 | 2623496 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

No shit! That 99% of the world's trained experts, climate scientists, agree that global warming is man made and the greatest threat to all of us means nothing to a bunch of yahoos that read a few articles that told them what they wanted to hear.

The deniers aren't stupid. They flew past stupid in an F-16 at the speed of sound and are about out of fuel. The funniest part of all this is that the red states with all the non-believers are taking the brunt of the hot temps and droughts!

Don't worry, it'll cool off tonight. See, no global warming here!

It's not a normal cycle anymore when we're setting all time records. Fools.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:04 | 2622935 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

It would be a lot easier to take AGW seriously if its leading proponents weren't all liars and scam artists.

And where's my damn check? The University of East Anglia can't have gotten all the oil company money. I want my check.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:25 | 2623015 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL! Yeah we are all oil company trolls!  I hate big oil but the smaller independents provide a service like any other businesses.

Sorry I must go to have martinis with the Koch brothers at the country club.  

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:14 | 2623341 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

the difference between most , well at least some , of the wisemen on ZH and the reflex self proclaimed 'environmentalists' (many of whom drive suv's and run their AC---like al gore ) is that there is a big difference between understanding that there is a propoganda war about the meme of global warming because of the political ramifications it has for disparate taxation and regulation reasons ---------that being naked corporate energy lobbying for private interests, versus naked lobbying by government to increase its authority and taxation power and job excuses--versus other industries that seek to make money off of global warming hysteria like wall street pushing credit trading, al gore pushing books, and solar energy companies pushing anything that will help their bottom line.

it is a delicate interplay of self interested battles for message control that wisemen on ZH see. the 'environmentalists' see big energy , especially big oil/coal/cars/nuclear etc....all lumped together as the villain upon which assumptions can be cast that anythign they do is wrong. it's called diametric oppositionalism. it's usually a sign of thougtless reflexive uncritical boo-ing and villanizing. meanwhile day in day out, the environmentalists are using the electricity created by these villains. instead of accepting the inherent difficult of finding a way to seek a progressive policy, Thoughtless 'environmentalists' engage in their politically motivated diamteric oppositionalism in order to gain 'strength' in numbers for the sheer reason of drumming up 'support' without any thougt out purpose in mind. the end result is a wish washy nonsense aggregate of 'environmentalists' who wind up being used by more organized interests, usually for the most simple of selfish reasons like raising donations. when the sierra club asks you for 100$ for agw support. 70 or more of that is going to staff salaries who sit around on their ass spening 90% of their time asking for more money. the university does the same thing, and asks for super large grants from government frequently for research that is poorly organized but properly seeded with buzzwords throughout the grant application. unfortunately when you earmark money for specific areas, those areas wind up attracting a lot of crap research.


non-profits my ass.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 06:49 | 2623448 BigJim
BigJim's picture


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 08:07 | 2623601 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

And your scientific credentials as to climate is?... Or just another asshat right winger who read an article that supports your hatred for the left and that trumps decades of actual climate research? Yeah, sure, you sound really smart.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:52 | 2624467 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

that's nice, now what about the science? All of what you describe is politics in this excuse for a democracy and gravity speed falling empire. It's ultimately irrelevant...except for the fact that the side that wants this issue to go away has more power, a lot more power. Enough to start wars, seize countries, and redraw the lines of the middle east. Add to that an incompentent and arrogant country that manages it environment like its debt, nt wanting to change the stauts quo, living in denial, and much too late to react to peak oil, at least constructively, so it must turn to dirtier easier sources.  

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:56 | 2622722 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The operative word is believe.

I don't want to live my life according to your beliefs and I don't want you to live your life according to my beliefs.

Please show me the same respect.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:05 | 2622744 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture


I don't want to live my life according to your beliefs and I don't want you to live your life according to my beliefs.  Please show me the same respect.

Wow.  If you don't believe in gravity, go jump off a cliff.  I'm wondering if you left the /sarc tag off or you're just trolling me or if you're actually serious.   A belief doesn't deserve respect if it goes against empirical evidence.  Otherwise, um... there'd be no human progress in history.  Ignorance should never be respected or condoned, ya big dummy!


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:49 | 2622900 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

You have evidence that ANTHROPOMORPHIC warming is a SIGNIFICANT contributor to this warming cycle?     Really?


Enlighten us....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 12:11 | 2624532 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

ice core popsicles. Keep licking them, maybe they'll go away. Explain the unique ramp up and its HISTORICALLY UNIQUE "cycle" SPEED coincidentally timed with the human race discovering and burning the most energy rich fuel source ever created on the planet and putting at least half of it into the atmosphere of a FIXED ecosystem. Is the earth an ecosystem? Has mankind ever affected an ecosystem? Are the number of men walking around a factor? driving around? playing on all their plug in devices? Don't you remember one of the themes on this site (and many others)?  Math matters.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:03 | 2622940 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I could say that if you believe in an afterlife, then go kill yourself, but that would be stupid.


Your beliefs are specific to you. You keep them.



Tue, 07/17/2012 - 05:38 | 2623400 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture





You can't think and believe at the same time." ~ John Trudell


Elsewhere on another video I can't locate at the moment, he's also the one I heard say that "there's a lie in the middle of believe."

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:58 | 2622929 Nels
Nels's picture

Happily, the only country that doesn't believe their politicians (and government paid scientists) when they claim the sky is falling.

Globally, every month this year has been cooler than the same month in 1998.

In the USA, the 1930s were hotter and drier.

Even the IPCC has is backing off on support of their previous position papers.

And yet we have fools that think the same government that could not figure out the subprime loan, fraudclosure, money laundering by HSBC and others, Bernie Madoff even when when warned, are somehow on target when forecasting the climate 50 years out.

If the government was really worried about climate change, you'd see a lot more weather monitoring stations, and a big effort to bring the current collection up to date.  Instead, we spend lots of money trying to get the pre-determined answers out of a dwindling array of collection stations.  And preferentially, we are getting rid of the stations in remote and northern regions.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:43 | 2623075 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Don't forget those govt paid acedemic "scientists."  The grant money scams at American and some other unis like the UK would make the banksters look like saints.  I know people who did consulting for the best uni's in America and the grant scams in the billions of taxpayers would make your hair stand on end. 

If you think universities are wonderful halls of learning think about child rapist Coach Sandusky getting a free pass for at least a decade.  He was so beloved in jock townand with the univer$$$ity that they let him set up a tax exempt group to help poor young boys - i.e. bring him more vicitims.  

I hope there is a hell and I hope Sandusky and all of his enablers go there for eternity.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:40 | 2623187 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

"they let him set up a tax exempt group to help poor young boys - i.e. bring him more victims. "

Sounds like a Catholic Church orphanage?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:21 | 2623002 o2sd
o2sd's picture



Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:36 | 2623182 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Just as I suspected.  A "hit" piece.  This article will garner the most hits of any today.   All the Global Warming zealots (pro and con) will emerge and do battle on the bloodless internet.   Let the games begin!

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 01:43 | 2623269 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

And the HITS just keep on comin'

It's fun to watch. But I too have become a little cynical about the placement of more than a few articles on Zero Hedge.

Sometimes, it feels like the Tylers just decided it would be a lot of fun to toss 10 pounds of raw meat into a pen of jackals, just to see the excitement.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 12:08 | 2624559 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

next week, he'll throw out seven pounds of tofu to cover the bases

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 10:57 | 2624225 centurain
centurain's picture

It seems you don't comprehend the difference between a scientific theory and a scientific law.  Try reading a real astrophysicist to learn the difference between opinion and science.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:27 | 2622612 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

As much as I enjoy a good pissing contest, maybe we could all just agree to refer back to the previous AGW Olympic urination-fest we had?

Probably should instead discuss the ramifications of a increasing supply of dollars bidding for less food..?


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:57 | 2622925 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You really want to remind people of what a fool you made of yourself?


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:09 | 2623137 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 01:03 | 2623226 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Funny.. that was exactly what you were making people do... but it was not a "with", it was more of an "at"....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 04:05 | 2623374 Western
Western's picture

Hey LP, remember your thesis on the gold:silver ratio in Weimar Germany. You stated it was because gold was easier to transport, and then you made some bumbling remark about nazi checkpoints and how that will somehown drive the ratio >60 in modern day america?


it would only be fair for the BIS to send you courtesy cheques for doing the work for them.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:00 | 2624250 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

lol, remember whatever you think I said helps you sleep best at nights.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:14 | 2622537 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

No fuckin shit...all this weird weather is the Earth's self defense mechanism to protect itself when it is being swarmed by a parasitic race of humans who are pillaging its resources. Expect more droughts, floods, tornedos, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes as the Earth try to get rid of the humans that are overpopulating this world.

Of course, when all the policy makers and central bankers are doing everything to keep the economy afloat while we got the Chinese doing their best to build bridges to nowhere to maintain their 8% GDP threshold and effin GM building more cars to stuff the channel, of course all this industrial production is expediting the downfall of the human race on this planet as we keep polluting the environment at an even faster pace.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:35 | 2622645 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'll have what he's having and make it a double.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:52 | 2623097 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is El Nino..  The SE USA and Florida have had more rain in the Spring and Summer.  This will mean a mild hurricane season.   La Nina means more hurricanes.  The UK is getting record rainfall.

The central US bakes during El Nino.

These stupid fkkkers should turn off the TV and NY Times and go buy old Farmer's Almanacs.

Yeah libs - go turn off El Nino or La Nina - good luck.  Humans are insignificant to the power of nature.  Deal with it.

The strength of the La Niña made the 2008 Atlantic hurricane season one of the most active since 1944; there were 16 named storms of at least 39 mph (63 km/h), eight of which became 74 mph (119 km/h) or greater hurricanes.[26]

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 09:35 | 2623886 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


you really should read up on what the ENSO does...

Also note what NOAA really said

And maybe you can explain why the recent La Nina years have been warmer than the all but the most recent El Ninos....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:45 | 2622683 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Don't worry, the planet will survive, but humans maybe not.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:54 | 2622716 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



From the time glaciers covered part of the earth until now – yes, I believe the earth has warmed up a bit. On a long enough time line it will all work out, I am sure the earth will win.


The Great Lakes area turns into a tropical paradise? Hmmmm can we help to speed this up a bit because I can’t wait.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 13:06 | 2624784 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Yep.  I'm going home tonight and shooting a hole in my last can of R-12.  I'm sick of Chicago winters.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:51 | 2622904 White.Star.Line
White.Star.Line's picture

Even if the planet doesn't survive, the universe will.

And if the universe doesn't survive, ..................................

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:48 | 2622693 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Earth is dumb matter.

A status you apparently share with it.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:09 | 2623339 geoffb
geoffb's picture

You could do the earth a favor and kill yourself if your so parasitic.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 08:42 | 2623715 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Why don't you show a graph of the ENSO?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:01 | 2622485 Michael
Michael's picture

Lets talk about that big orange ball in the sky. 2012 is solar max year after an anemic 1st half of the current solar cycle 24 that failed to ramp up in normal style.

The solar minimum is causing the earth to cool substantially over time. Just look at the citrus crop failures in Argentina. Look for the next 8 winters to be very brutal in the northern hemisphere too.

Inhofe Speech: Cooling Down the Rhetoric on Recent Global Warming Coverage

All you need to know about climate changing;


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:04 | 2622494 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Solar cycle is 11 years. And we're breaking records that span 117 years. Solar maxima and minima never affected earth in this way

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:14 | 2622527 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Yea, because we've been able to monitor the activity of the sun since the beginning of time.

It's a big fuck ball of nuclear fusion that always changes. I'd be willing to bet that some sun cycles are more intense than others. In fact I believe in the month of June the sun experienced one of it's largest solar flares we've been able to record.

BTW - What was the weather like in the US during 1931? I'll tell you, 71% of the United States was under drought conditions compared to 58% now.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:14 | 2622539 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Dinosaurs once roamed the Arctic. We gonna roast. But on the bright side, all those oh so fancy seaside mansions will become water ski jumps

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:41 | 2622652 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

To all you yuppy liberal tree hugging twats, it's the weather, and it changes. This was in 1931 before I was taking joy rides around your neighborhood in my gas guzzling SUV spraying hairspray out of the window:


2, Little Rock (Pulaski County) had seen seventy-one consecutive rainless days. August temperatures peaked at 113 degrees with successive 110-degree days.

And guess where the power to cool your homes is probably coming from you fucking cunts. Coal.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:56 | 2622723 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Inbetween his rants on zh Bob enjoys "taking joy rides around your neighborhood in my gas guzzling SUV spraying hairspray out of the window"

Folks, the American dream has arrived - bob_dabolina hairspray legend!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:05 | 2622761 White.Star.Line
White.Star.Line's picture


Bob baby.

Stop blaming tree huggers for all your woes.

I am not a yuppy liberal twat, but I am a tree hugger.  Of course I grew up in the desert and learned to appreciate shade.  Haven't read any Edward Abbey?

One of our Nation's greatest writers, along with John Muir, Hunter S, and Mark Twain.

Maybe you should read more, comment less....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:20 | 2623156 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Who owned forests and still does - where the trees are killed and used to print yellow journalism and propaganda for the elites and left?  The NY Times.  How many millions of trees have those liberal fxxkks murdered?   I know they printed pro-Stalin propaganda as he starved 6 million Ukrainians.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:50 | 2622902 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Marble Bar Australia had a record heatwave of 100 degrees or higher for 160 straight days.

It was October 1923 to April 1924.

Aboriginogenic Global Warming


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:03 | 2622937 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Son, that's called cherry picking data....

Why don;t you provide link for Australia as a whole for the past 90 years? eh?

PS Provide a link to reputable web site to back your say the Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:23 | 2623011 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Why? Neither ninety years, nor 160 days, nor a climate model, can predict the future.


Something you can't grasp.


I visited Marble Bar. They were proud their ancestors got their brains fried.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 09:36 | 2623046 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

What excuse will you claim, ignorance or stupidity?...

Here is a synopsis of a prediction from 1975....

The original paper is linked therein...

I would say he did pretty fucking good, would you not agree?

Here, educate yourself

Global Climate Models have successfully predicted:


  • That the globe would warm, and about how fast, and about how much.
  • That the troposphere would warm and the stratosphere would cool.
  • That nighttime temperatures would increase more than daytime temperatures.
  • That winter temperatures would increase more than summer temperatures.
  • Polar amplification (greater temperature increase as you move toward the poles).
  • That the Arctic would warm faster than the Antarctic.
  • The magnitude (0.3 K) and duration (two years) of the cooling from the Mt. Pinatubo eruption.
  • They made a retrodiction for Last Glacial Maximum sea surface temperatures which was inconsistent with the paleo evidence, and better paleo evidence showed the models were right.
  • They predicted a trend significantly different and differently signed from UAH satellite temperatures, and then a bug was found in the satellite data.
  • The amount of water vapor feedback due to ENSO.
  • The response of southern ocean winds to the ozone hole.
  • The expansion of the Hadley cells.
  • The poleward movement of storm tracks.
  • The rising of the tropopause and the effective radiating altitude.
  • The clear sky super greenhouse effect from increased water vapor in the tropics.
  • The near constancy of relative humidity on global average.
  • That coastal upwelling of ocean water would increase.  for all the references to published papers....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:55 | 2623106 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

You really should stop taking your advice on global warming from Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt.   They are making you dumber than you already are - if that is even possible.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 05:37 | 2623409 Gatts
Gatts's picture

Lemmings have the same trait.



Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:02 | 2623122 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL!  It is El Nino.  And like La Nina it has been going on for thousands of years and it affects most of the globe.   The moron and tenured fraud scientists think this has only happened recently but illiterate fisherman in South America have more brains that the grant casing klepto creeps in academia.

The good news is with El Nino there is a lot of rain in the spring and summer in FL and the SE which means a mild hurricane season.  In La Nina you get lots of hurricanes.

El Niño is credited with suppressing hurricanes and made the 2009 hurricane season the least active in twelve years.[26]

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:47 | 2623202 long-shorty
long-shorty's picture

only 42% of U.S. electricity generation now comes from coal.

so unless the c*nts are in Arkansas, probably not so much.

incidentally, I don't have anything against Arkansas. had a good friend in college who had worked for Tyson there. he was Indian so people would always ask him "What tribe?" So he'd tell them, "the biggest tribe of all."

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 12:16 | 2624586 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

simplifying this to a "liberal" or any other political label is your first scientific mistake 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:42 | 2622676 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Dinosaurs once roamed the Arctic."

Well that clinches was Dino's fault.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:02 | 2622747 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



There is another theory about that one ……..

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 03:11 | 2623340 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

"In fact I believe in the month of June the sun experienced one of it's largest solar flares we've been able to record."

Nope.  That was in the 1870's.  They did have a biggy in Canada - 1987 or 1989 I think.  But 2012 is the forecasted peak in a long, long cycle going back to the 1870's.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:07 | 2622509 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Geez Canada  finally gets some benefit from this much advertised global warming that has been such a disappointment for the last 20 years, and now you say get ready to freeze our asses off for the next 8 winters.

Wait till the Minnesotans for Global Warming hear about this.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:19 | 2622562 Michael
Michael's picture

One of my favorites;

Frozen Wasteland

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:27 | 2622614 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

Big.. orange...ball.... WHAT?

I'm sorry, I live in Seattle, you're going to have to give me more to go on.

So this Sun thing. It's hot you say?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:41 | 2622673 Michael
Michael's picture

Too bad you have to go on line to see, yes the Sun Seattle.

It's pretty anemic looking for solar max year.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:29 | 2623167 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

I recall the great Seattle heatwave of 1992 where temps soared all the way up into the low 90s. Seattelites were dropping faster than Curt Kobain. Turns out none of yoos has air conditioning.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 12:21 | 2624597 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

London and Moscow's 100s were more interesting ...and deadly

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 01:51 | 2623273 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The biggest, bluest, codlest blob on the U.S. temperature map is here in Western Washington.

The grandest, greenest, wet spot on the U.S. precip map is here in Western Washington.

All I can say is it's been fuckin' cold and wet, so I have no idea why the hell everybody is bitching about droughts and heat waves.

You people are IMAGINING THINGS!

Sorry if I'm cranky, but I have to sleep in the wet spot EVERY NIGHT.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:14 | 2622742 Michael
Michael's picture

If warmists can't answer this question, their openion is worthless and not worth your time;

Michael Oppenheimer and Dr. Steven Running, two of the foremost global warming alarmist scientists.

Seth Borenstein: Let me try and put you more on the spot, Mike and Steve: I know there's no attribution - you haven't done attribution studies, but if you ballparked it right now and had to put a percentage number on this, on the percentage that the heat wave, the percentage of blame you can put on anthropogenic climate change, on this current heat wave, and on the fires, what percentage would the two of you use?

Dr. Michael Oppenheimer: Come on, I'm not going to answer that. Yes I will answer it, and my answer is: I won't do it. You know, we have to do these things carefully, because if you don't, you're going to end up with bogus information out there. People will start disbelieving because you'll be more wrong, more often. This is not the kind of thing I want to do off the top of my head. Nor do I think it can be done, you know, convincingly, without really taking - doing careful analysis, so I'll pass on this one and see if Steve has a different view.

Dr. Steven Running: Well, I already got way too hypothetical in my last answer. Yeah, it's... it's probably really dangerous for us to just lob out a number. I - We could certainly lob out some guess, but it wouldn't be based on the kind of analysis and statistical rigor that we want to put out into the public arena.

Seth Borenstein: Okay let's make it easier. 50% about 50% line: Is it more than 50%, do you think, or less? Just, you know, on one end. More or less?

Now let me stop there for a moment. Seeing that the Seth Borenstein was asking an inconvenient question, one of the moderators tried to step in and tell the AP reporter that his question was a bad one. Let me quote from the recording again:

Susan Hassol, Moderator for the Climate Communication conference call: Seth, most of the scientists I talk to say it's a contributing factor and that's what we can say and that it's really not even really a well-posed question, to ask for a percentage, because it just - what you're asking really is for a model to determine the chances of this happening without climate change or with climate change and models are not very good at that.

Let me stop again. Borenstein didn't take well to the fact that the moderator attempted to shift away from the question and he doubled down on Oppenheimer. Let me quote Borenstein further:

Seth Borenstein: I understand, I've been covering this for 20 years, I understand. I don't need a lecture, thank you very much. What I'm asking for is when the fingerprint - when the attribution studies are done, two or three years later, it's already beyond people's memory. I'm just looking for whether you could say this is - global warming was the biggest factor, more than 50 - most of the factor, you know, either more or less than 50%...

The Question Global Warming Alarmists Wont Answer!

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:14 | 2623143 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The question is a bullshit question, that is not how one measures or calculates discreet events.

A better one would be: What would be the probability of seeing a heatwave of such intensity in two scenarios, the observed warming trend over the past 30 years, and assuming no trend over the past 30 years. What is their ratio?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:25 | 2623162 Freddie
Freddie's picture

BS.  2012 is an El Nino year.  Look it up DH.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 09:54 | 2623231 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I know where to find the data... what do you think the lag time is between an ENSO index tagging an El Nino and the weather patterns in the CONUS? Care to comment on when we left neutral conditions?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 22:40 | 2622868 White.Star.Line
White.Star.Line's picture

You normally seem to be a WWIII cheerleader.

Why any interest in climate, when your prediction for our future brings on the fireballs and radioactive sickness?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:35 | 2622643 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture 

Read some of the farmer stories / comments...

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 02:56 | 2623331 ABG LINE
ABG LINE's picture


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:33 | 2622374 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

Koch Brothers say it ain't happening and that's good enough for me!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:28 | 2622617 TimmyB
TimmyB's picture

The “scientists” hired by the big tobacco companies told us cigarettes didn’t cause cancer either.

I find it odd that the same people who believe in "markets" above everything else for some reason have great difficulty believing that a multibillion dollar industry would spend a few million dollars a year to discredit a scientific conclusion that threatens those billions.  

Especially when we all saw it happen before with another industry.


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:44 | 2622682 AnarchyInc
AnarchyInc's picture

So you trust the government scientists instead.  The government wants to use AGW to control every aspect of a person's life.  Pick your poison I suppose.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:12 | 2622970 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

How in the hell does AGW threaten oil companies? I have never heard any warmist threaten an oil company. They want to tax the hell out of the public and start a carbon credit scam that they admit will not help AGW but I never heard any of them propose doing anything to oil companies. Except ask them for money.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 11:07 | 2623462 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I suppose the argument is that oil companies may see much of their government subsidy re-directed to 'sustainable' energy sources of the future, like nuclear and solar; for example, Fukushima and Solyndra.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:34 | 2622375 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

In 117 years, out of how many thousands in human history?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:43 | 2622420 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

It's that motherfucker Al Gore who is to blame for all of this.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:02 | 2622488 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Damn those physical chemists, faking the infrared spectra of CO2 and CH4 all these last 150 years!

How did they ever get a CO2 laser to work, with all that fake spectral data floating around?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 21:19 | 2622563 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

CO2 pales in comparison to CH4 which pales in comparison to...

Water vapor.

Read this

Then FOLLOW THE MONEY as in who profits from global warming legislation (hint:  They also do God's work).

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:11 | 2622964 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey, shit for brains...

Does H20 condense out of the atmosphere? Is there a limit to how much H20 there can be in the atmosphere as a function of temperature?


C02 unlike water does not condense out... and H20 unlike C02 has not really changed much (hint: it;s a feedback)

How cold would the earth be without H20 and C02?

Maybe a look at this to see what is going on....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:28 | 2623025 o2sd
o2sd's picture

I guess you are hoping for a repeat of the great oxygen catastrophe.


Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:35 | 2623052 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

If anything I am hoping that we don;t go anywhere near the what the high emission simulations suggest is coming....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 22:05 | 2626695 o2sd
o2sd's picture

The Jurassic period had 6-7 times the CO2 level that we have now. Great for reptiles and plants, mammals, not so much. If the reptiles and the plants eat a few mammals as we finally exit this ice age, so be it. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape turning the lights on because of it.


Tue, 07/17/2012 - 23:01 | 2626802 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Its a tad more serious than that, but if you really don't have a problem with and understand the magnitude of the change coming...(Which I really doubt...)

I don;t get bent out of shape either, only that I wanted a proper discounting of the value and we are alledgedly more advanced than 19th century energy sources....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:03 | 2623126 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Please tell us more about how the atmosphere is normally always 100% saturated with water, and how it is impossible to increase average humidity and thus increase heat retention capacity of the atmosphere.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:21 | 2623158 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


why don;t you explain a mechanism for increasing the WV that does not involve C02 given the solar output is flat?

You did just agree that the WV can saturate, did you not? I do want to file that for later, kay?

And you do understand the difference between a driving and a feedback forcing?

PS It has nothing to do with heat retention of the atmosphere.....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:53 | 2623211 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Name a product of combustion other than CO2.  Here's a hint, it's a chemical compound that absorbs more slowly into concrete and asphalt than into soil.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 01:20 | 2623253 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Cliffie, please show data that even remotely supports what you are inferring....

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 08:41 | 2623712 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I'm not inferring anything.  You are the one who is trying to claim that humidity is always 100%.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 08:46 | 2623726 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Nope... another case of you not understading what the fuck you are talking about...

Hint: What is the average global temperature? And did you look at the WV plot?

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 09:38 | 2623900 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I don't care about you or your argument.  I just happened to notice while I was scrolling past your inane BS that you claimed that the atmosphere can't hold any more water.  When I point that out, you instantly resort to insult and attempt to redirect the conversation rather than simply admitting that you were wrong.

Only a fool claims he is never wrong, and as a result, he is ALWAYS wrong.  You would do well to learn that.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 10:17 | 2624047 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Nope.. you interpreted what I said in the context of your own faulty understanding... Not my fault you are a combination of clueless and disingenuous....

Pop Quiz:

If there is a closed system at temperature T that has zero water vapor and one removes a barrier to expose the volume to liquid water, how long does it take the H20 vapor to saturate its equilibrium partial pressure?

Now since we know that the world is not all at the same temperature, that equilibrium VW partial pressure wiil vary widely, but the global average of the amount of VW is fairly constant...  

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 14:20 | 2625073 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you mean the whole world is not all at the same temperature? Imagine that. Weird that they fail to understand that it's the overall system, the entire earth's ecosystem that matters. Of course, that said, and consistent with the evidence, the effects will not be evenly distributed either. Places will flood, places will fry, places will even have freak cold snaps. The moderation is waning, the overall is warming. 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:31 | 2623037 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Try to concentrate for, oh, 2 or 3 seconds, OK?

Water was already a natural component of the weather system. Without it, weather would resemble that of the Moon.

CO2 and CH4 were very minor components, until we started spewing them by the megaton.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:50 | 2623205 Money Squid
Money Squid's picture

Bravo you three-eyed freak. Blood and Gore.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:13 | 2622974 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Has he ever been involved in anything that wasn't a scam?

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