This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

US Closes 2011 With Record $15.22 Trillion In Debt, Officially At 100.3% Debt/GDP, $14 Billion From Breaching Debt Ceiling

Tyler Durden's picture


While not news to Zero Hedge readers who knew about the final debt settlement of US debt about 10 days ahead of schedule, it is now official: according to the US Treasury, America has closed the books on 2011 with debt at an all time record $15,222,940,045,451.09. And, as was observed here first in all of the press, US debt to GDP is now officially over 100%, or 100.3% to be specific, a fact which the US government decided to delay exposing until the very end of the calendar year. We wonder, rhetorically, just how prominent of a talking point this historic event will be in any upcoming GOP primary debates. And yes, technically this number is greater than the debt ceiling but it excludes various accounting gimmicks. When accounting for those, the US has a debt ceiling buffer of... $14 billion, or one third the size of a typical bond auction.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:51 | 2030516 redpill
redpill's picture

OT: Oh Snap!  Santorum's nephew endorses Ron Paul!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:56 | 2030541 Thomas
Thomas's picture

And then there's that frothy mix of unfunded liabilities. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:07 | 2030589 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Just send me the bill for my share. I'll try to pay it off by performing sexual favors on attractive divorces or heiresses. I may take me a while though. I'm not as young as I once was.

I am The Chief

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:43 | 2030800 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

All Timmah needs to do is rehypothecate public pension funds for a minute until they raise the debt ceiling.  Oh hey, there's that word again!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:45 | 2030826 sheeple
sheeple's picture

Timmah might need to try rehypothecate all of Europe's public pension funds as well

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:16 | 2030897 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The Rehypothecation Game

Coming to theaters near you!  2012!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:44 | 2030940 trav7777
trav7777's picture

so how much did Bama rack up?

TreasuryDirect says 10.6T on 1/18/2008, now 15.2.  That is a cool 4.6T just on the headline number.  Give this guy another 4 years of this and he will have doubled the debt in around 8 and change years.  This is historically DEAD ON with the 9-year doubling interval I have previously discussed as having been relatively constant over the past few decades.

That suggests, yes, an 8% growth rate using rule of 72.  On a log scale, Bama isn't a bigger spender than Busch

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:52 | 2030991 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Not in percentage terms.  In nominal terms he is, but we know that matters little.  Since the dollar has held onto DXY 80, the real rate is also the same.  I am pretty amazed at Central Planning right now, but I had thought for years that people would wake up.  I don't know if that will happen until the wheels fall off and the world is in the middle of WWIII, $500 p/b oil, $100 silver, and $3k gold.  Who knows anymore though.....

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 21:45 | 2031193 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

Dont worry, my phd keynesian economics professor said debt and deficits don't matter, and that they will actually make you and me more rich. I paid a lot of money for that class so he must be right

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 01:31 | 2031871 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

So what's the problem? That's about 15 US dollars when valued in 1924 Reichsmarks...

No sweat...

So what's a good price for gold then?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 13:07 | 2033064 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

According to Bernanke, Obama, and Krugman, the best way to solve a debt problems is by going deeper into debt.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 10:46 | 2032314 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Your right, It seems so simple but some people just don't want to listen no matter what.

People know, they just don't want to seem like they are not part of the norm.



Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:01 | 2031231 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture




so how much did Bama rack up?

TreasuryDirect says 10.6T on 1/18/2008, now 15.2. That is a cool 4.6T just on the headline number. Give this guy another 4 years of this and he will have doubled the debt in around 8 and change years. This is historically DEAD ON with the 9-year doubling interval I have previously discussed as having been relatively constant over the past few decades.

That suggests, yes, an 8% growth rate using rule of 72. On a log scale, Bama isn't a bigger spender than Busch

Obama did not have control of the Budget until well after the election..

But the thing that should be noted is..

Obama dd the same thing Bush did.

Exactly the same and worse.

So if the Liberal Democrat of Hope and Change did NOT! change the Status Quo?

Until We the People decide that Constitution is more interesting that Dacing wiff da Starz.. America will suffer.. and as ignorant as the Masses are.. "We the People" may want to consider taking up a hobby.. cause this wait is going to be a while.

I dont think I will see change in my life time any more. Honestly.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:39 | 2031336 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

Yeah, i know what you mean...depressing.  

I intend to make my own change.  Get out of the rat race, tune out, turn off, disappear and live the country life.


And, btw, the way I figure it, the debt should grow at a faster and faster rate;  if the growth in the cost (size) of government is constant, you would have the neat linear (on a log scale) increase.  the problem is that all that debt also has interest associated with it.  The total debt would be much higher even now if we had not had ZIRP for 2 years.  How much faster does it grow when rates "normalize"?  and then go higher still?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:40 | 2031357 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 23:21 | 2031506 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Wouldn't the debt rise much faster over the next four years because it's actually beginning to rise exponentially now? In other words, even though small, the rise from 10-14 is slower than say, the rise from 14 to 20. I'm thinking of this in the same way that it takes a long time to get from $10,000 to $100,000 dollars, but once over $100,000 the interest on the ever growing sum of now-larger amounts of money helps the money grow faster.

Someone out there can explain the math better on this than I can.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:26 | 2030639 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture



Don't worry!!

The US should just print another 15 trillion,



Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:13 | 2030740 sheeple
sheeple's picture

gold...and silver...bitchez

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 23:22 | 2031509 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Any of you guys buying platinum?

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 01:32 | 2031874 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

they can't eat platinum

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:46 | 2030829 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

This comment seems needlessly provocative. I LOVE it! Of course thank God the Treasury market is rigged otherwise someone might have to actually pay for that! Yet another reason to think interest rates will fall further!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:22 | 2030903 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i'm not stupid; buy gold, vote 'bama; unless, Paul actually gets the nomination. I think they'll shoot him first, though.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:29 | 2030924 Vagabond
Vagabond's picture

If we lose, we can just try again with 30 trillion.  

But fuck that breakeven strategy. I say we start with 16 trillion, and if that fails go with 33 trillion, then 67... etc  That way the longer we lose, the more we end up making!  It's a strategy that makes perfect sense for this financial world.  Unfortunately when I tried it in the online blackjack world I eventually ended up bankrupting myself...  a nearly impossible feat with fiat!

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 04:57 | 2032143 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I once lost 15K in a casino with that system... while being drunk like a sailor...


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:46 | 2030959 trav7777
trav7777's picture

at an 8% growth rate, doubling of the debt should be EXPECTED every 9 years.  This isn't hard shit.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:00 | 2030863 kito
kito's picture

for all those optimists, this is the u.s. debt load in 2015. YES 2015!! debt gdp 135 PERCENT!!!  U.S. DEBT, JUST UNDER 24 TRILLION!!!  THATS 3 YEARS AWAY PEOPLE!!!!!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:48 | 2030968 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

$8 trillion of new bond issuance in 2012 is about $1,150 for each of the world's 6.928 billion inhabitants.

For the large portion of the world that makes less than $1/day, they'll break even about the time $24 trillion is reached in three years.

We need someone like David Stockman to get us from this point to solvency again... what? ... Oh, he's been traveling and speaking and saying what?


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:04 | 2031240 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Your maff is fuzzy!

what you mean.. is!

out of the $8 Trillion dollars in bonus monies to Wall Street.. it only bought America a year or so.. so expect more printng..

Wall Street has to pay for a war in Iran! the first American Privatized War! (or second if you count Iraq, but that info is still top secret.. so we wil stick with 1st!)

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:14 | 2031286 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Obumer has another $1.2 trillion to spend getting reelected.  $16.4 trillion by November.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:02 | 2030568 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ redpill: ha ha!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:23 | 2030765 Blue Dingo
Blue Dingo's picture

Debt > GDP ?

yahtzee !

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:16 | 2030616 Parabolic
Parabolic's picture

"John Garver is a 19-year-old student at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown. John is a strong supporter of Ron Paul despite his love for family member Rick Santorum."


Gotta love the disclaimer for old Uncle RDick
Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:40 | 2030815 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Uncle John!  I wanted to wish you the best, but I am also writing to inform you that I will openly be supporting Ron Paul for President.  I love ya Uncle Rick, but you totally suck at being a politician.


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:59 | 2030705 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

I dont care for the Drudge report . But there is a online pole taking place

you can VOTE Ron Paul .. is  up 31%

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:41 | 2030817 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Ron Paul is the only one who hasn't wept on stage.  Just sayin'

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:25 | 2030911 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture


are they crying because they will not have ther'er zionest bought govement  anymore and the ppl are tierd of the lies and theft of ther'er lives .

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:30 | 2030926 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

That and the fact that they have been B'nTFD on PM's and they know if Paul wins PM skyrockets.  No one can ever be rich enough.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:05 | 2031244 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

I am with you there Mrlennon .. But I buy PMs becuase I hate the fucking lies teh Gov feeds us and the ass raping we all take in taxes.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:55 | 2031002 supafuckinmingster
supafuckinmingster's picture

"Ron Paul is the only one who hasn't wept on stage"

In other words, Ron Paul is the only one of the candidates that has overtly distanced himself from your typical America's next top model/x-factor/the bigges loser candidate..........and that, people, is in itself a reason for voting for him.


That is all.


You may now return to the mundane drudgery of your normal "lives".

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:03 | 2031233 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture


 who would you pick >?

 I am tierd of haveing a shadow goverment ... I am tierd  of watching bubbles make only the inside guys money and my cash rip off .. I am tierd of watching ppl getting brian washed and lied to all the time threw  media ..  Fuck off  show me a better person to vote for.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:51 | 2030518 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:55 | 2030536 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

This is not a problem, everyone needs to shut the hell up....and eat their IPads.  /sarc

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:25 | 2030636 d_senti
d_senti's picture

Hey Tyler, I was wondering, would it be possible for you to put an open thread post out every day? That way those of us, like myself, who enjoy them (and often go off-topic) would have somewhere to comment for the day. Just a thought. Occurred to me just before I was about to post yet another possible thread-hijacking comment. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:56 | 2030699 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

where the fuck are the green shoots?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:12 | 2030735 carguym14
carguym14's picture

They were transitory.Now it's time for green peas.......

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:28 | 2030761 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Goddamn sheep ate them all!!

We need a second debt clock because the first one is FULL!!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:34 | 2030932 URZIZMINE
URZIZMINE's picture

String Theory Grasshopper... There is an infinate number of Debt Clocks.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 04:20 | 2032118 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

The gold market, the last time I looked.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:51 | 2030521 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You know, thinking about it, it might not be too late.  The US had a higher debt/GDP ratio after WWII.  With RP doing so well in the polling, perhaps there is a chance.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:54 | 2030534 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I agree Tom, but at a minimum we would have to return to the post WWII spending AND tax rates.  How much of your silver stash are you willing to bet on that happening?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:11 | 2030606 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

$15 tn debt works out to about $124,000 per taxpayer.  How will that be paid?  It won't, at least in real terms.

Jubilee/default or hyperinflation.  Both?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:18 | 2030621 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

And if everybody moves out of the country, the last sucker to leave will have to foot the entire bill!!!


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:48 | 2030683 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Yep, that's one hell of a bar tab to get stuck with.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:53 | 2030846 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Whatdaya mean how? We monetize causing not only more spending but interest rates to plunge! What could possibly be wrong with this picture? Wait 'till the USA get's it share of the millions of Islamic refugees from all the wars Anderson Cooper has demanded we wage! I can't think of a better place for all of them to settle than New York City now that we know the Mayor has ordered their Mosques so loaded with listening devices they can't even hear themselves thinking anymore!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:13 | 2030887's picture

$15 tn debt works out to about $124,000 per taxpayer.  How will that be paid?  It won't, at least in real terms.


And then there's the $100 trillion to $200 trillion in unfunded Social Security, Medicare and Veteran's Benefits over the next thirty years.

Ron Paul 2012. If not now, when?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 21:02 | 2031035 supafuckinmingster
supafuckinmingster's picture

"Ron Paul 2012. If not now, when?"


He's 76. So if not now, probably be honest.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 21:06 | 2031058's picture

If we don't reign in spending now, when will we? The canoe is heading for the falls. Backpaddle!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 21:02 | 2031034 non_anon
non_anon's picture

just do your part and be a "tax protester", of course be prepared to be NDAA'ed and wearing stripes, not pin stripes unless you walk among the well heeled

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:58 | 2030550 Thomas
Thomas's picture

See above. First off, to be comparable to a post world war is not great shakes. Second, we got to rebuild the world. (Seems likely not to repeat here.) Third, how many unfunded liabilities did they have? Probably none. Now? $200 trillion of Kotlikoff is correct.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:01 | 2030564 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The "unfunded liabilities" will be sent to the FEMA camps along with all other unproductive assets/tenants of the corporation of America.

Wake up thomas. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:09 | 2030599 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I cook a mean spaghetti & meatballs... That's gotta count for something dammit!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:18 | 2030623 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

It does if you have the grain and meat to make the meatballs and spaghetti, otherwise, not so much.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:41 | 2030667 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Care for some gopher?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:01 | 2030868 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Got a good recipe for frying up CongressCritter? 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:23 | 2030631 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

About 60 million Italians who totally agree with you....


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:21 | 2030900 yabyum
yabyum's picture

I would rather eat the homecooked meal of a poor Italian than any Mcdonalds , KFC, Arbeys. Taco bell or ( fill in the blank_______) on Earth!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:17 | 2030608 Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

The WWII debt/GDP ratio was mainly reduced by inflation, which caused noninal GDP to expand. Ron Paul's sound money policies would tend to preclude this option.

The US also had much stronger real GDP growth in the postwar period than we have experienced recently, and it didn't have a huge crop of baby-boomers about to retire and start claiming Social Security and Medicare benefits.

All in all, I think with RP we would be very lucky to maintain the debt/GDP ratio constant. But this is much more than we could expect from the other candidates.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:22 | 2030628 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The U.S. also had abundant oil the was EASY to extract (meaning that the capital and energy required to extract the resource was much less than the energy released by the recovered material).  Not the case anymore, drill all you want, when the capital and energy costs make it unprofitable than a true "capitalist" won't touch it.  Good thing the U.S. has kleptocapitalism where only certain folks can steal and not go to jail.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:03 | 2030659 Manthong
Manthong's picture

You can’t even begin to compare our present situation to after WWII



·         After the war we were an industrial powerhouse in a bombed out world

·         We had prestige and the world both respected and feared us

·         We had a strong currency

·         We were the only ones with the bomb (until 1949) land until the 60’s we were way ahead in atomic, electronic and industrial technology

·         We didn’t have a huge illegal population

·         We were not confused as to who we were

·         We didn’t have 40% of the population receiving government benefits

·         We had a productive natural resource sector with yet to be tapped potential

·         We had our way with foreign sources of minerals and energy

·         We had a degree of integrity and as yet reasonably Constitutional governance

·         The average 12 year old girl never saw a video of an air-tight

·         The US of A was a different country on a different planet

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:44 | 2030823 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Any comparison of economic conditions from today to a post WW2 US are just ridiculous. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:53 | 2030843 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

"The average 12 year old girl never saw a video of an air-tight"

Nobody right after WWII saw a video of an air-tight.

Closest was donkey show in TJ.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:31 | 2031343 Manthong
Manthong's picture

That was a less than elegant statment.. I got a little carried away trying to be snide.

To rephrase the sentiment: The average 16 year old thought that a penis in a mouth was sex.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:59 | 2030857 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I agree. Back then "we were white and we were right." Now look at us. What happened? From triumphal bigots to mongrel losers in just a few short years. I've had it! I'm

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:52 | 2030992 trav7777
trav7777's picture


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:20 | 2030898 xela2200
xela2200's picture

You said it. Why do people keep on drawing comparison to WW2? Different world all together. Nothing good comes out of war ever.

sun Tzu said that war should not be taken lightly as its outcome is NEVER certain.

We have 7 Billion people on the planet, and We are starting to reach scarcity in some of our resources (oil, silver, copper). A World War now would be the mother of all wars. Death toll could be in the billions. Furthermore, it took Germany, Japan, etc almost 60 year to rebuild. It would probably take us 200 years to rebuild that if we still have what to rebuild with.

How can politicians and war industry in country with so much debt can even consider taking on Iran or any other country as an aggressor is really immoral. The kids dying are the dumb ass kids in the 7-11 parking lot asking me to buy beer for him. Not the congressperson's kid mind You. For oil and money? Fuck it. I say let's drop to been the 10 economic power of the world and let's have a kick ass standard of living. Fat, chunky, smart mouth, brats that eat hamburgers and Mr. Pib while they play X-Box.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 21:09 | 2031070 supafuckinmingster
supafuckinmingster's picture

"How can politicians and war industry in country with so much debt can even consider taking on Iran or any other country as an aggressor is really immoral. The kids dying are the dumb ass kids in the 7-11 parking lot asking me to buy beer for him. Not the congressperson's kid mind You"


.............that's the way it always has been brotha....

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:43 | 2030950 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

We didn't have as many politicians bought off by elites.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:51 | 2030989 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the US hadn't even hit peak IRON in 1945.  This nation was blessed with arguably the BEST reserves of nearly everything on the planet.  Except platinum, that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

Best land, best water, best oil, best all of it.

And we didn't have diversity then either.  Therefore that entire society is rejected as evil.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 22:47 | 2031385 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Whatever.  Percentage wise there were alot more natives in 1945, blacks were about the same.  Not nearly as many Asians or Mexicans, that is true.

But back then "whites" wasn't as meaningful as a term.  There were WASPs and Germans and Jews and Italians and Irish and who knows how many others.  And alot of class differences and warfare between them.  Look it up, German Americans were interned just like the Japanese.

This idea of a utopian society that existed in the past is typical of a declining country, with that I agree.  Just like Brits who could never accept that their Empire was gone.

All things, good or bad, come to an end.

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 04:24 | 2032120 deKevelioc
deKevelioc's picture

Then we discovered the joys of off-balance sheet accounting.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:38 | 2030810 Banjo
Banjo's picture

After WWII the US economy was >53% of the world. The us made and exported stuff. The debt was internal not to foreigners.

But you're right we will make it through just like after WWII if only
- we vote in xyz
- something polarizing about welfare or socialism
- something polarizing about free markets or capitalism

America has lost the ability to have rational balanced and well informed debate on the economy. Everyone wins corporate and welfare till TSHTF!!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:22 | 2030904 Samsonov
Samsonov's picture

Sorry to say, but there is no chance, regardless of who's in the White House.  Ron Paul would only get blamed for it all.  I can't figure out why he'd want to be president: Either he's delusional and thinks this can all get fixed, or he's lying by saying it can.  Sorry, but those are the choices.  Same goes for all of them, by the way.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:47 | 2030966 trav7777
trav7777's picture

what, do we still have 90% of the world's largest oil reserve still unused?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:58 | 2031012 supafuckinmingster
supafuckinmingster's picture

As posted earlier, he'll be shot before the embedded establishment allows him to become Potus. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:53 | 2030522 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Interesting. Wonder what happens when BOA folds and oil rises above $120? Interest rates are already essentially negative...............I hear a rumble in the distance in black clockless hours.....

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:05 | 2030575 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1  B of A would get bailed out.  Take that to the bank.

Oil goes to $120?  I hear the same rumbling...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:08 | 2030590 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The oil issue will be the problem, and as always war will be the solution.  No technology big or cheap enough to fill that void.  Perhaps it is a good time to own a bike shop.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:25 | 2030906 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Forget the bike. Many states have an overpopulation of wild horses. Wild boars too if You need cheap bacon. That's Spanish Conquistadors for You.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:10 | 2030728 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

120$ is last years 100$

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:53 | 2030526 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Most J6Ps have no clue what it means.  They are just glad they are not GDP, whoever that is.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:57 | 2030547 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I think GDP must be a WWE wrestler.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:07 | 2030586 brew
brew's picture

i say ron paul kicks the bernanks ass in a caged death match... probably a strangle hold...


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:12 | 2030609 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Ron Paul/Chief Strongbow 2012...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:10 | 2030594 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Most soccer moms that cheat on there hubbys think they cought GDP

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:53 | 2030527 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

It's pretty hilarious how they call it "debt held by the public" - because I know for damn sure none of that debt is mine. :-)

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:54 | 2030530 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Then you haven't been paying taxing and for that I salute you!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:26 | 2030912's picture

Taxpayers pay and would therefore be more rightly defined as creditors.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:56 | 2030542 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Gee, cant they just fix it by printing even more? I hear from 'sources' thats the plan.

Extra LULZ'y new year to all.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:06 | 2030581 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 more

They will either print sooner or they will print later.  But, print they will.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:56 | 2030546 printmemoney
printmemoney's picture

Offset the 4 trillion dollar asset held by the social security fund and we are around 70%.  Not that we're any less screwed......

Maybe if 2012 was the last year we only spent 1.5 - 2.0 trillion more than we took in.  Ron Paul is the only hope.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:29 | 2030645 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Actually the SS trust fund is dumping more treasuries to make up its cash shortfall than most nations- so offsetting them would be an accounting gimmick.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 17:58 | 2030552 chump666
chump666's picture

Obama is insane

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:31 | 2030928's picture

No. He simply has a different agenda from the one which he publicly advocates. Every action which Obama has taken or that Bush took before him were coldly calculated in order to achieve our present state.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:43 | 2030560 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

rhetorically, how prominent of a talking point this will be...




Correction, they mentioned it (debates?) briefly (as if from 40,000 ft.) in the newz...

...that along with a flurry of campaign rhetoric peppered (riddled?) with BS.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:04 | 2030571 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

This will only cost you your retirement account, SS, Medicare, paved roads, and your freedom.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:14 | 2030612 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I disagree.  If there are no paved roads to my people or my property, I would argue that we would have more freedom from the central planning financial fucknuts - bring it!  Nature and the laws of physics make no promises regarding anyone's survival anyway.  If we have the freedom to live and die by our own means, we have already won,  fucking bring it.

The only thing that paper-pushers (who create nothing of real value) fear is a loss of FAITH and confidence in paper.  Paper is how these idiots currently get people to do their bidding.  History shows us over and over just how this turns out, hedge accordingly.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:26 | 2030640 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

No more paved roads would be PERFECT...

See then, Krugman's logic on GDP being bolstered by an alien invasion would finally prove correct... (Only NOT in the way he envisioned it)...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:04 | 2030573 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

It's only debt.  Look deep into the eyes of our children and just tell it like it is...

If you want a future you want Ron Paul.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:06 | 2030580 fast mover
fast mover's picture


I've got the $1.09 covered, so it's not as bad as you would think.  I'd better pay it soon or it will be $1M.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:08 | 2030593 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That $15 tn debt works out to some $124,000 per TAXPAYER.  Have $124,000 to pay your share?  Me either.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:16 | 2030750 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And its only going to get far larger.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:17 | 2030752 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

It isn't about money it's about the consolidation of power using money as control and something to blame it on (the system).

Globalization is fraud-paradise, fiat it's beverage of leverage.

Money is dying.   Does nature really need it?  Nope, only the weakest among us cherish such incorporated fraud-bullshit.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:09 | 2030600 dereks1
dereks1's picture

I say double-the-fuck down!

Wed, 01/04/2012 - 06:56 | 2032204 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Derivatives, anyone?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:10 | 2030605 ricecake
ricecake's picture


Worry too much about nothing. They can print and pay the creditors. 



As long as they can exchange the IOU with chicken, pork, Boeing, WMDs, coal, Apples, everyone's happy. 





Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:17 | 2030618 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

And when "they" can't exchange the IOU, or it requires too many, you better kill "them" before they kill you, because despite what all the eCONomists say they will still need the real asset to survive.  History keeps rythming like that.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:29 | 2030646 youngman
youngman's picture

Should be the headline on the Chris Mathews show right...

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:30 | 2030647 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Pretty sure yanks can hit my target (perhaps with an upside surprise) of 160% by the end of Obama's 2nd term. 

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:51 | 2030691 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

You can bet we'll give it the old college try.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:57 | 2030852 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

So you're saying tuition is going up? LOL

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:33 | 2030651 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

14 Billion they could cash that out tonight. Another debt ceiling debacle so early in the year? Didn't Obama delay the request for more funds? When is Congress back in full session?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:40 | 2030666 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

...sounds like

...mark of The Beast sure turned out to be global ...and ugly.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:42 | 2030669 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Can't we just borrow money from China to pay off the debt? This brings us to prosperity right?


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:43 | 2030671 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

What proportion of US National Debt is held domestically ?  What proportion is held by nations running a trade surpluis with the US ?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:03 | 2030718 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The only question is what portion of the US National Debt is held by the Fed.  You know, that private banking cartel that charges YOU interest to print your (really their) money. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:44 | 2030673 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:44 | 2030674 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

I'll gladly pay you Thursday for a Hamburger today.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:12 | 2030736 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I'll just keep in safe storage in my mouth. You bring the money tomorrow and then you'll get whatever comes out of my ass of whats left of that burger. Deal?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:45 | 2030675 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture



Nobody Understands Debt* 


"And that’s why nations with stable, responsible governments — that is, governments that are willing to impose modestly higher taxes when the situation warrants it — have historically been able to live with much higher levels of debt than today’s conventional wisdom would lead you to believe. Britain, in particular, has had debt exceeding 100 percent of G.D.P. for 81 of the last 170 years. When Keynes was writing about the need to spend your way out of a depression, Britain was deeper in debt than any advanced nation today, with the exception of Japan."


- Paul "Alien Whisperer" Krugman


*oh snap


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:50 | 2030685 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Oh man cannot get enough of this guy.

Can I have another Krugman?

Yes sir, fill er up to the brim.

I wonder if I should even expect my tax refund come Feb haha.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:05 | 2030720 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

And now the WORLD is Japan.  Stupid is as stupid does and infinite growth with finite resources is impossible.  I wonder if Krugman tastes like chicken?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:06 | 2030875 Spacemoose
Spacemoose's picture

i'm curious, how did that work out for britain?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 20:38 | 2030937's picture

"It's the Brain Drain. His brain is draining." -- Victor Spinetti in Help!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:47 | 2030680 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

...not to worry! "The Tough" will go shopping till their droopy drawers are dropping 

And everything will be allright again. 

Because we know who we are: United Uppies of Merika! And nobody can reach for their plastic as fast as we can. Sing it loud, sing it proud!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:52 | 2030693 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I have a question for the gold experts. What happens if the Feds revalue their gold and declare that they are a buyer and a seller at $2,200? Does that put a cap on gold? Does that help them to pull in more gold ? What happens to fiat if they do that?

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:07 | 2030725 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Hold on, its coming.  Any sudden gold revaluation will be the greatest theft of all.  History shows that revaluations occur only after confiscation.  After all, only the "right" people can hold wealth.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:11 | 2030734 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

I'm not a gold expert, but I'll venture a prediction since I don't think this will happen and so I am unlikely to be proved wrong.

In the short run, everyone who thinks gold is worth less than $2200 sells their gold to the government, so the government pulls in a substantial amount of gold. Then the price of gold remains stable at $2200 for a while.

In the long run, inflation eats away at the purchasing power of the dollar and that $2200 becomes worth less and less in real terms, while an ounce of gold remains an ounce of gold. So at some point, people begin to purchase gold from the government and eventually US government gold reserves are depleted. The price of gold then rises above $2200 and the US government cancels its offer.

It is similar to what happened to silver in the 1960's, which resulted in US silver reserves being depleted.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:15 | 2030749 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Thanks for your response. That's kind of what I thought too, but I have seen it suggested that the Feds should follow that path to 1) put a ceiling on gold then 2) take in more gold and use it later to pay down the debt.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:35 | 2030801 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

Here's another question:

If RP audits the US gold stock and actually finds anything near what's on the books, would he sell it to pay down the debt or would he just tell debt holders to eat it? Which choice would be more appealing to a Libertarian that is "long" gold miners?





Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:49 | 2030812 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Tell em to eat it and like it.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:57 | 2030704 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Bullish...another market rally. I've got this figured out now...the bigger the debt and the deeper one goes, the more the markets like it. Doesn't make sense...but it is what it is.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:58 | 2030707 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

If everyone is responsible then no one is responsible --least of all me.

See you at the jubilee party.

-Ron Paul

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:25 | 2030773 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's the indians fault!
Let's go kill their buffalo's in retalliation!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 18:59 | 2030708 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Mission accomplished, now who's got my bonus?


Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:01 | 2030713 Shadowsil
Shadowsil's picture

OT RP poll on MSN< mitts in the lead atm.. ermm ya right. Go vote. Bottom right hand side...

Go paul go!

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:07 | 2030723 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

The General Accounting Office decided to release its 2011 Fiscal Report of the United States on the Friday before Christmas, likely so the press would be screaming about how broke the US is when the report came out. It's not like the white house is even trying to hide it..the very first sentence of the report is Geithner stating, "this report provides another sobering picture of our long term fiscal challenges."

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:14 | 2030745 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



The real debt is closer to $30 trillion and the real GDP is closer to $10 trillion, meaning real debt-to-GDP is around 300%.

Accounting gimmicks are going to fail against a tide of national leaders waking up and seeing what's really happening to America.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:32 | 2030791 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Yes, GDP deflator is routinely understated as well as well as what the government borrows and spends is counted in GDP which is a joke.

Also, all of the off balance sheet debt like what the government is backing from Fannie / Freddie / FHA / student loans that will not be paid back is not counted in debt, which should be. Not to mention the over $100T in unfunded liabilities.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:24 | 2030767 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

The_Year_of_the_Dragon IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!

We can just go for it, knowing the Golden Dragon will protect us.

A US $20 gold piece brings about $1600 FRN cabbage leaves per coin, so if you can learn from a small cloud of golden coins, you'll be able to laugh at the Debt Dustdevil whenever it kicks up.

A US silver quarter is worth $5 now, so anyone can put away real money. Buying one ounce of gold a month in 2012 will make you very merry in 2013. Dragons love gold because it is a durable constant in a world of lies, smoke and mirrors. Human nature and gold are the two constants in society.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:26 | 2030774 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

There are 110,000,000 households in the U.S.  If you add up all the income it comes to about $6 trillion.  That's all that matters to Americans.  Subtract taxes and you get ~$3 trillion in real income.  Now the $15 trillion debt has real meaning.


Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!