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US Closes 2011 With Record $15.22 Trillion In Debt, Officially At 100.3% Debt/GDP, $14 Billion From Breaching Debt Ceiling
While not news to Zero Hedge readers who knew about the final debt settlement of US debt about 10 days ahead of schedule, it is now official: according to the US Treasury, America has closed the books on 2011 with debt at an all time record $15,222,940,045,451.09. And, as was observed here first in all of the press, US debt to GDP is now officially over 100%, or 100.3% to be specific, a fact which the US government decided to delay exposing until the very end of the calendar year. We wonder, rhetorically, just how prominent of a talking point this historic event will be in any upcoming GOP primary debates. And yes, technically this number is greater than the debt ceiling but it excludes various accounting gimmicks. When accounting for those, the US has a debt ceiling buffer of... $14 billion, or one third the size of a typical bond auction.
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OT: Oh Snap! Santorum's nephew endorses Ron Paul!
http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/03/the-trouble-with-my-uncle-rick-santorum/
And then there's that frothy mix of unfunded liabilities.
Just send me the bill for my share. I'll try to pay it off by performing sexual favors on attractive divorces or heiresses. I may take me a while though. I'm not as young as I once was.
I am The Chief
All Timmah needs to do is rehypothecate public pension funds for a minute until they raise the debt ceiling. Oh hey, there's that word again!
Timmah might need to try rehypothecate all of Europe's public pension funds as well
Coming to theaters near you! 2012!
so how much did Bama rack up?
TreasuryDirect says 10.6T on 1/18/2008, now 15.2. That is a cool 4.6T just on the headline number. Give this guy another 4 years of this and he will have doubled the debt in around 8 and change years. This is historically DEAD ON with the 9-year doubling interval I have previously discussed as having been relatively constant over the past few decades.
That suggests, yes, an 8% growth rate using rule of 72. On a log scale, Bama isn't a bigger spender than Busch
Not in percentage terms. In nominal terms he is, but we know that matters little. Since the dollar has held onto DXY 80, the real rate is also the same. I am pretty amazed at Central Planning right now, but I had thought for years that people would wake up. I don't know if that will happen until the wheels fall off and the world is in the middle of WWIII, $500 p/b oil, $100 silver, and $3k gold. Who knows anymore though.....
Dont worry, my phd keynesian economics professor said debt and deficits don't matter, and that they will actually make you and me more rich. I paid a lot of money for that class so he must be right
So what's the problem? That's about 15 US dollars when valued in 1924 Reichsmarks...
No sweat...
So what's a good price for gold then?
According to Bernanke, Obama, and Krugman, the best way to solve a debt problems is by going deeper into debt.
TheSilverJournal.com
Your right, It seems so simple but some people just don't want to listen no matter what.
People know, they just don't want to seem like they are not part of the norm.
http://www.dailyjobcuts.com
.
Obama did not have control of the Budget until well after the election..
But the thing that should be noted is..
Obama dd the same thing Bush did.
Exactly the same and worse.
So if the Liberal Democrat of Hope and Change did NOT! change the Status Quo?
Until We the People decide that Constitution is more interesting that Dacing wiff da Starz.. America will suffer.. and as ignorant as the Masses are.. "We the People" may want to consider taking up a hobby.. cause this wait is going to be a while.
I dont think I will see change in my life time any more. Honestly.
Yeah, i know what you mean...depressing.
I intend to make my own change. Get out of the rat race, tune out, turn off, disappear and live the country life.
And, btw, the way I figure it, the debt should grow at a faster and faster rate; if the growth in the cost (size) of government is constant, you would have the neat linear (on a log scale) increase. the problem is that all that debt also has interest associated with it. The total debt would be much higher even now if we had not had ZIRP for 2 years. How much faster does it grow when rates "normalize"? and then go higher still?
dupe
Wouldn't the debt rise much faster over the next four years because it's actually beginning to rise exponentially now? In other words, even though small, the rise from 10-14 is slower than say, the rise from 14 to 20. I'm thinking of this in the same way that it takes a long time to get from $10,000 to $100,000 dollars, but once over $100,000 the interest on the ever growing sum of now-larger amounts of money helps the money grow faster.
Someone out there can explain the math better on this than I can.
Don't worry!!
The US should just print another 15 trillion,
AND BET IT ALL ON BLACK!
VOTE OBAMA! RIEN VA PLUS BITCHEZ!
gold...and silver...bitchez
Any of you guys buying platinum?
they can't eat platinum
This comment seems needlessly provocative. I LOVE it! Of course thank God the Treasury market is rigged otherwise someone might have to actually pay for that! Yet another reason to think interest rates will fall further!
i'm not stupid; buy gold, vote 'bama; unless, Paul actually gets the nomination. I think they'll shoot him first, though.
If we lose, we can just try again with 30 trillion.
But fuck that breakeven strategy. I say we start with 16 trillion, and if that fails go with 33 trillion, then 67... etc That way the longer we lose, the more we end up making! It's a strategy that makes perfect sense for this financial world. Unfortunately when I tried it in the online blackjack world I eventually ended up bankrupting myself... a nearly impossible feat with fiat!
I once lost 15K in a casino with that system... while being drunk like a sailor...
at an 8% growth rate, doubling of the debt should be EXPECTED every 9 years. This isn't hard shit.
for all those optimists, this is the u.s. debt load in 2015. YES 2015!! debt gdp 135 PERCENT!!! U.S. DEBT, JUST UNDER 24 TRILLION!!! THATS 3 YEARS AWAY PEOPLE!!!!!
http://usdebtclock.org/2015-current-rates.html
$8 trillion of new bond issuance in 2012 is about $1,150 for each of the world's 6.928 billion inhabitants.
For the large portion of the world that makes less than $1/day, they'll break even about the time $24 trillion is reached in three years.
We need someone like David Stockman to get us from this point to solvency again... what? ... Oh, he's been traveling and speaking and saying what?
Nevermind.
Your maff is fuzzy!
what you mean.. is!
out of the $8 Trillion dollars in bonus monies to Wall Street.. it only bought America a year or so.. so expect more printng..
Wall Street has to pay for a war in Iran! the first American Privatized War! (or second if you count Iraq, but that info is still top secret.. so we wil stick with 1st!)
Obumer has another $1.2 trillion to spend getting reelected. $16.4 trillion by November.
@ redpill: ha ha!
Debt > GDP ?
yahtzee !
"John Garver is a 19-year-old student at the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown. John is a strong supporter of Ron Paul despite his love for family member Rick Santorum."
Gotta love the disclaimer for old Uncle RDick-John
I dont care for the Drudge report . But there is a online pole taking place
you can VOTE Ron Paul .. is up 31%
Ron Paul is the only one who hasn't wept on stage. Just sayin'
Mrlennon
are they crying because they will not have ther'er zionest bought govement anymore and the ppl are tierd of the lies and theft of ther'er lives .
That and the fact that they have been B'nTFD on PM's and they know if Paul wins PM skyrockets. No one can ever be rich enough.
I am with you there Mrlennon .. But I buy PMs becuase I hate the fucking lies teh Gov feeds us and the ass raping we all take in taxes.
"Ron Paul is the only one who hasn't wept on stage"
In other words, Ron Paul is the only one of the candidates that has overtly distanced himself from your typical America's next top model/x-factor/the bigges loser candidate..........and that, people, is in itself a reason for voting for him.
That is all.
You may now return to the mundane drudgery of your normal "lives".
@supafuckinmingster
who would you pick >?
I am tierd of haveing a shadow goverment ... I am tierd of watching bubbles make only the inside guys money and my cash rip off .. I am tierd of watching ppl getting brian washed and lied to all the time threw media .. Fuck off show me a better person to vote for.
FAIL
This is not a problem, everyone needs to shut the hell up....and eat their IPads. /sarc
Hey Tyler, I was wondering, would it be possible for you to put an open thread post out every day? That way those of us, like myself, who enjoy them (and often go off-topic) would have somewhere to comment for the day. Just a thought. Occurred to me just before I was about to post yet another possible thread-hijacking comment.
where the fuck are the green shoots?
They were transitory.Now it's time for green peas.......
Goddamn sheep ate them all!!
We need a second debt clock because the first one is FULL!!
String Theory Grasshopper... There is an infinate number of Debt Clocks.
The gold market, the last time I looked.
You know, thinking about it, it might not be too late. The US had a higher debt/GDP ratio after WWII. With RP doing so well in the polling, perhaps there is a chance.
I agree Tom, but at a minimum we would have to return to the post WWII spending AND tax rates. How much of your silver stash are you willing to bet on that happening?
$15 tn debt works out to about $124,000 per taxpayer. How will that be paid? It won't, at least in real terms.
Jubilee/default or hyperinflation. Both?
And if everybody moves out of the country, the last sucker to leave will have to foot the entire bill!!!
LAST ONE OUT TURNS OF THE LIGHTS!
Yep, that's one hell of a bar tab to get stuck with.
Whatdaya mean how? We monetize causing not only more spending but interest rates to plunge! What could possibly be wrong with this picture? Wait 'till the USA get's it share of the millions of Islamic refugees from all the wars Anderson Cooper has demanded we wage! I can't think of a better place for all of them to settle than New York City now that we know the Mayor has ordered their Mosques so loaded with listening devices they can't even hear themselves thinking anymore!
And then there's the $100 trillion to $200 trillion in unfunded Social Security, Medicare and Veteran's Benefits over the next thirty years.
Ron Paul 2012. If not now, when?
"Ron Paul 2012. If not now, when?"
He's 76. So if not now, probably never............to be honest.
If we don't reign in spending now, when will we? The canoe is heading for the falls. Backpaddle!
just do your part and be a "tax protester", of course be prepared to be NDAA'ed and wearing stripes, not pin stripes unless you walk among the well heeled
See above. First off, to be comparable to a post world war is not great shakes. Second, we got to rebuild the world. (Seems likely not to repeat here.) Third, how many unfunded liabilities did they have? Probably none. Now? $200 trillion of Kotlikoff is correct.
The "unfunded liabilities" will be sent to the FEMA camps along with all other unproductive assets/tenants of the corporation of America.
Wake up thomas.
I cook a mean spaghetti & meatballs... That's gotta count for something dammit!
It does if you have the grain and meat to make the meatballs and spaghetti, otherwise, not so much.
Care for some gopher?
Got a good recipe for frying up CongressCritter?
About 60 million Italians who totally agree with you....
I would rather eat the homecooked meal of a poor Italian than any Mcdonalds , KFC, Arbeys. Taco bell or ( fill in the blank_______) on Earth!
The WWII debt/GDP ratio was mainly reduced by inflation, which caused noninal GDP to expand. Ron Paul's sound money policies would tend to preclude this option.
The US also had much stronger real GDP growth in the postwar period than we have experienced recently, and it didn't have a huge crop of baby-boomers about to retire and start claiming Social Security and Medicare benefits.
All in all, I think with RP we would be very lucky to maintain the debt/GDP ratio constant. But this is much more than we could expect from the other candidates.
The U.S. also had abundant oil the was EASY to extract (meaning that the capital and energy required to extract the resource was much less than the energy released by the recovered material). Not the case anymore, drill all you want, when the capital and energy costs make it unprofitable than a true "capitalist" won't touch it. Good thing the U.S. has kleptocapitalism where only certain folks can steal and not go to jail.
You can’t even begin to compare our present situation to after WWII
· After the war we were an industrial powerhouse in a bombed out world
· We had prestige and the world both respected and feared us
· We had a strong currency
· We were the only ones with the bomb (until 1949) land until the 60’s we were way ahead in atomic, electronic and industrial technology
· We didn’t have a huge illegal population
· We were not confused as to who we were
· We didn’t have 40% of the population receiving government benefits
· We had a productive natural resource sector with yet to be tapped potential
· We had our way with foreign sources of minerals and energy
· We had a degree of integrity and as yet reasonably Constitutional governance
· The average 12 year old girl never saw a video of an air-tight
· The US of A was a different country on a different planet
Any comparison of economic conditions from today to a post WW2 US are just ridiculous.
"The average 12 year old girl never saw a video of an air-tight"
Nobody right after WWII saw a video of an air-tight.
Closest was donkey show in TJ.
That was a less than elegant statment.. I got a little carried away trying to be snide.
To rephrase the sentiment: The average 16 year old thought that a penis in a mouth was sex.
I agree. Back then "we were white and we were right." Now look at us. What happened? From triumphal bigots to mongrel losers in just a few short years. I've had it! I'm moving...to...Baluchistan.
DATS RAYCISS
You said it. Why do people keep on drawing comparison to WW2? Different world all together. Nothing good comes out of war ever.
sun Tzu said that war should not be taken lightly as its outcome is NEVER certain.
We have 7 Billion people on the planet, and We are starting to reach scarcity in some of our resources (oil, silver, copper). A World War now would be the mother of all wars. Death toll could be in the billions. Furthermore, it took Germany, Japan, etc almost 60 year to rebuild. It would probably take us 200 years to rebuild that if we still have what to rebuild with.
How can politicians and war industry in country with so much debt can even consider taking on Iran or any other country as an aggressor is really immoral. The kids dying are the dumb ass kids in the 7-11 parking lot asking me to buy beer for him. Not the congressperson's kid mind You. For oil and money? Fuck it. I say let's drop to been the 10 economic power of the world and let's have a kick ass standard of living. Fat, chunky, smart mouth, brats that eat hamburgers and Mr. Pib while they play X-Box.
"How can politicians and war industry in country with so much debt can even consider taking on Iran or any other country as an aggressor is really immoral. The kids dying are the dumb ass kids in the 7-11 parking lot asking me to buy beer for him. Not the congressperson's kid mind You"
.............that's the way it always has been brotha....
We didn't have as many politicians bought off by elites.
the US hadn't even hit peak IRON in 1945. This nation was blessed with arguably the BEST reserves of nearly everything on the planet. Except platinum, that's the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
Best land, best water, best oil, best all of it.
And we didn't have diversity then either. Therefore that entire society is rejected as evil.
Whatever. Percentage wise there were alot more natives in 1945, blacks were about the same. Not nearly as many Asians or Mexicans, that is true.
But back then "whites" wasn't as meaningful as a term. There were WASPs and Germans and Jews and Italians and Irish and who knows how many others. And alot of class differences and warfare between them. Look it up, German Americans were interned just like the Japanese.
This idea of a utopian society that existed in the past is typical of a declining country, with that I agree. Just like Brits who could never accept that their Empire was gone.
All things, good or bad, come to an end.
Then we discovered the joys of off-balance sheet accounting.
After WWII the US economy was >53% of the world. The us made and exported stuff. The debt was internal not to foreigners.
But you're right we will make it through just like after WWII if only
- we vote in xyz
- something polarizing about welfare or socialism
- something polarizing about free markets or capitalism
America has lost the ability to have rational balanced and well informed debate on the economy. Everyone wins corporate and welfare till TSHTF!!
Sorry to say, but there is no chance, regardless of who's in the White House. Ron Paul would only get blamed for it all. I can't figure out why he'd want to be president: Either he's delusional and thinks this can all get fixed, or he's lying by saying it can. Sorry, but those are the choices. Same goes for all of them, by the way.
what, do we still have 90% of the world's largest oil reserve still unused?
As posted earlier, he'll be shot before the embedded establishment allows him to become Potus.
Interesting. Wonder what happens when BOA folds and oil rises above $120? Interest rates are already essentially negative...............I hear a rumble in the distance in black clockless hours.....
+ 1 B of A would get bailed out. Take that to the bank.
Oil goes to $120? I hear the same rumbling...
The oil issue will be the problem, and as always war will be the solution. No technology big or cheap enough to fill that void. Perhaps it is a good time to own a bike shop.
Forget the bike. Many states have an overpopulation of wild horses. Wild boars too if You need cheap bacon. That's Spanish Conquistadors for You.
120$ is last years 100$
Most J6Ps have no clue what it means. They are just glad they are not GDP, whoever that is.
I think GDP must be a WWE wrestler.
i say ron paul kicks the bernanks ass in a caged death match... probably a strangle hold...
Ron Paul/Chief Strongbow 2012...
Most soccer moms that cheat on there hubbys think they cought GDP
It's pretty hilarious how they call it "debt held by the public" - because I know for damn sure none of that debt is mine. :-)
Then you haven't been paying taxing and for that I salute you!
Taxpayers pay and would therefore be more rightly defined as creditors.
Gee, cant they just fix it by printing even more? I hear from 'sources' thats the plan.
Extra LULZ'y new year to all.
+ 1 more
They will either print sooner or they will print later. But, print they will.
Offset the 4 trillion dollar asset held by the social security fund and we are around 70%. Not that we're any less screwed......
Maybe if 2012 was the last year we only spent 1.5 - 2.0 trillion more than we took in. Ron Paul is the only hope.
Actually the SS trust fund is dumping more treasuries to make up its cash shortfall than most nations- so offsetting them would be an accounting gimmick.
Obama is insane
No. He simply has a different agenda from the one which he publicly advocates. Every action which Obama has taken or that Bush took before him were coldly calculated in order to achieve our present state.
rhetorically, how prominent of a talking point this will be...
<Crickets>
~//~
Correction, they mentioned it (debates?) briefly (as if from 40,000 ft.) in the newz...
...that along with a flurry of campaign rhetoric peppered (riddled?) with BS.
This will only cost you your retirement account, SS, Medicare, paved roads, and your freedom.
I disagree. If there are no paved roads to my people or my property, I would argue that we would have more freedom from the central planning financial fucknuts - bring it! Nature and the laws of physics make no promises regarding anyone's survival anyway. If we have the freedom to live and die by our own means, we have already won, fucking bring it.
The only thing that paper-pushers (who create nothing of real value) fear is a loss of FAITH and confidence in paper. Paper is how these idiots currently get people to do their bidding. History shows us over and over just how this turns out, hedge accordingly.
No more paved roads would be PERFECT...
See then, Krugman's logic on GDP being bolstered by an alien invasion would finally prove correct... (Only NOT in the way he envisioned it)...
It's only debt. Look deep into the eyes of our children and just tell it like it is...
If you want a future you want Ron Paul.
$15,222,940,045,451.09
I've got the $1.09 covered, so it's not as bad as you would think. I'd better pay it soon or it will be $1M.
That $15 tn debt works out to some $124,000 per TAXPAYER. Have $124,000 to pay your share? Me either.
And its only going to get far larger.
It isn't about money it's about the consolidation of power using money as control and something to blame it on (the system).
Globalization is fraud-paradise, fiat it's beverage of leverage.
Money is dying. Does nature really need it? Nope, only the weakest among us cherish such incorporated fraud-bullshit.
I say double-the-fuck down!
Derivatives, anyone?
Worry too much about nothing. They can print and pay the creditors.
As long as they can exchange the IOU with chicken, pork, Boeing, WMDs, coal, Apples, everyone's happy.
And when "they" can't exchange the IOU, or it requires too many, you better kill "them" before they kill you, because despite what all the eCONomists say they will still need the real asset to survive. History keeps rythming like that.
Should be the headline on the Chris Mathews show tonight...lol...yeah right...
Pretty sure yanks can hit my target (perhaps with an upside surprise) of 160% by the end of Obama's 2nd term.
You can bet we'll give it the old college try.
So you're saying tuition is going up? LOL
14 Billion they could cash that out tonight. Another debt ceiling debacle so early in the year? Didn't Obama delay the request for more funds? When is Congress back in full session?
...sounds like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBC1nCCKiNY&feature=related
...mark of The Beast sure turned out to be global ...and ugly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTNrXeL8u8
Can't we just borrow money from China to pay off the debt? This brings us to prosperity right?
-Obama
What proportion of US National Debt is held domestically ? What proportion is held by nations running a trade surpluis with the US ?
The only question is what portion of the US National Debt is held by the Fed. You know, that private banking cartel that charges YOU interest to print your (really their) money. Stupid is as stupid does I guess.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll gladly pay you Thursday for a Hamburger today.
I'll just keep in safe storage in my mouth. You bring the money tomorrow and then you'll get whatever comes out of my ass of whats left of that burger. Deal?
Oh man cannot get enough of this guy.
Can I have another Krugman?
Yes sir, fill er up to the brim.
I wonder if I should even expect my tax refund come Feb haha.
And now the WORLD is Japan. Stupid is as stupid does and infinite growth with finite resources is impossible. I wonder if Krugman tastes like chicken?
i'm curious, how did that work out for britain?
"It's the Brain Drain. His brain is draining." -- Victor Spinetti in Help!
...not to worry! "The Tough" will go shopping till their droopy drawers are dropping
And everything will be allright again.
Because we know who we are: United Uppies of Merika! And nobody can reach for their plastic as fast as we can. Sing it loud, sing it proud!
I have a question for the gold experts. What happens if the Feds revalue their gold and declare that they are a buyer and a seller at $2,200? Does that put a cap on gold? Does that help them to pull in more gold ? What happens to fiat if they do that?
Hold on, its coming. Any sudden gold revaluation will be the greatest theft of all. History shows that revaluations occur only after confiscation. After all, only the "right" people can hold wealth.
I'm not a gold expert, but I'll venture a prediction since I don't think this will happen and so I am unlikely to be proved wrong.
In the short run, everyone who thinks gold is worth less than $2200 sells their gold to the government, so the government pulls in a substantial amount of gold. Then the price of gold remains stable at $2200 for a while.
In the long run, inflation eats away at the purchasing power of the dollar and that $2200 becomes worth less and less in real terms, while an ounce of gold remains an ounce of gold. So at some point, people begin to purchase gold from the government and eventually US government gold reserves are depleted. The price of gold then rises above $2200 and the US government cancels its offer.
It is similar to what happened to silver in the 1960's, which resulted in US silver reserves being depleted.
Thanks for your response. That's kind of what I thought too, but I have seen it suggested that the Feds should follow that path to 1) put a ceiling on gold then 2) take in more gold and use it later to pay down the debt.
Here's another question:
If RP audits the US gold stock and actually finds anything near what's on the books, would he sell it to pay down the debt or would he just tell debt holders to eat it? Which choice would be more appealing to a Libertarian that is "long" gold miners?
Tell em to eat it and like it.
Bullish...another market rally. I've got this figured out now...the bigger the debt and the deeper one goes, the more the markets like it. Doesn't make sense...but it is what it is.
If everyone is responsible then no one is responsible --least of all me.
See you at the jubilee party.
-Ron Paul
It's the indians fault!
Let's go kill their buffalo's in retalliation!
Mission accomplished, now who's got my bonus?
OT RP poll on MSN< mitts in the lead atm.. ermm ya right. Go vote. Bottom right hand side...
Go paul go!
Msn.com
The General Accounting Office decided to release its 2011 Fiscal Report of the United States on the Friday before Christmas, likely so the press would be screaming about how broke the US is when the report came out. It's not like the white house is even trying to hide it..the very first sentence of the report is Geithner stating, "this report provides another sobering picture of our long term fiscal challenges."
TheSilverJournal.com
The real debt is closer to $30 trillion and the real GDP is closer to $10 trillion, meaning real debt-to-GDP is around 300%.
Accounting gimmicks are going to fail against a tide of national leaders waking up and seeing what's really happening to America.
Yes, GDP deflator is routinely understated as well as well as what the government borrows and spends is counted in GDP which is a joke.
Also, all of the off balance sheet debt like what the government is backing from Fannie / Freddie / FHA / student loans that will not be paid back is not counted in debt, which should be. Not to mention the over $100T in unfunded liabilities.
TheSilverJournal.com
The_Year_of_the_Dragon IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!
We can just go for it, knowing the Golden Dragon will protect us.
A US $20 gold piece brings about $1600 FRN cabbage leaves per coin, so if you can learn from a small cloud of golden coins, you'll be able to laugh at the Debt Dustdevil whenever it kicks up.
A US silver quarter is worth $5 now, so anyone can put away real money. Buying one ounce of gold a month in 2012 will make you very merry in 2013. Dragons love gold because it is a durable constant in a world of lies, smoke and mirrors. Human nature and gold are the two constants in society.
There are 110,000,000 households in the U.S. If you add up all the income it comes to about $6 trillion. That's all that matters to Americans. Subtract taxes and you get ~$3 trillion in real income. Now the $15 trillion debt has real meaning.