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US Consumer Taps Out: Personal Savings Rate Drops To Lowest Since December 2009

Tyler Durden's picture


The August Personal Income and Spending report is out and while there were some modest surprises in the data, namely a drop in Personal Income of -0.1%, on expectations of an increase of 0.1% (and an adverse revision for July data from 0.3% to 0.1%) - the first drop in two years, while Personal Spending was in line with expectations at 0.2% (previous revised from 0.8% to 0.7%), the biggest news of the day is that the US consumer is getting tapped out, with spending coming entirely from savings: the savings rate dropped from a revised 4.8% (previously 5.0%), to 4.5%, the lowest since December 2009.

August income components are not pretty, in fact they were pretty damn ugly:

Private wage and salary disbursements decreased $12.2 billion in August, in contrast to an increase of $23.8 billion in July.  Goods-producing industries' payrolls decreased $1.3 billion, in contrast to an increase of $6.3 billion; manufacturing payrolls decreased $2.9 billion, in contrast to an increase of $5.8 billion. Services-producing industries' payrolls decreased $10.9 billion, in contrast to an increase of $17.5 billion. Government wage and salary disbursements increased $0.4 billion, in contrast to a decrease of $1.8 billion.

And what is even worse is that based on other personal income, the primary source of "income" was and continues to be the squatter's rent where not paying one's mortgage effectively translates into income:

Rental income of persons increased $8.3 billion in August, compared with an increase of $8.1 billion in July. Personal income receipts on assets (personal interest income plus personal dividend income) decreased $5.7 billion, compared with a decrease of $5.8 billion.

Lastly, the government was not very generous last month: the result - a tapping of consumer bank accounts.

Personal current transfer receipts decreased $7.1 billion in August, compared with a decrease of $10.7 billion in July.  Government social benefits to persons for Medicaid decreased $10.5 billion, compared with a decrease of $13.6 billion.

And Goldman's take:

Weak Income and Spending

BOTTOM LINE: Weak real income growth a negative for consumer spending outlook. Downward revisions to consumer spending a small negative for Q3 GDP.

Personal income -0.1% (mom) for August vs. GS +0.1%, median forecast +0.1%.
Consumer spending +0.2% (mom) for August vs. GS +0.1%, median forecast +0.2%.
Core PCE deflator +0.15% (mom) for August vs. GS +0.1%, median forecast +0.2%.

1. Nominal personal income declined by 0.1% (month-over-month) in August, in contrast to consensus expectations for a small increase. Income from wages and salaries fell by 0.2%, the first decline since last November. Real disposable income-household incomes adjusted for taxes and the effect of price change-fell by 0.3%, and was up only 0.3% from a year earlier. Poor real income growth is a negative for the second half consumer spending outlook.

2. Nominal consumer spending increased by 0.2%, in line with consensus expectations. In real terms consumer spending was unchanged after a 0.4% increase in July. Real consumer spending growth was also revised down for June and July, and the result overall was a slight negative for Q3 GDP growth.

3. The core PCE deflator increased by 0.15% in August, or 1.6% from a year earlier. The overall PCE price index increased by 0.2% or 1.7% year-over-year.


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Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:53 | 1725365 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullish for collapse, bravo ZH!  Soon enough, the entire western world will be for sale, barter, or trade, as all fiat collapses.  Not really worried about China as they still need to feed a billion people and they bought a lot of our soybean crop last year.  Looking forward to paying off my remaining property notes with a few ounces of physical.  Better get the slaves and security details lined up now.  If you don't think this is exactly where states like Texas are already positioning themselves, you haven't been paying attention.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:56 | 1725391 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Could you imagine what spending would be if there weren't 5 million households living rent free????

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:01 | 1725410 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

...or if the UE benefits clock timed out at 26 weeks instead of 99?

(channeling Yoda)  Believe you must: dire, straits are.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:04 | 1725428 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture


I appreciate your contribution, but unfortunately forgiving rent would be totally unfair on banks whose balance sheets are already suffering. To boost aggregate demand we need to give people incentives to spend. This could be achieved through a fiscal stimulus program that gives people tax breaks for replacing old electrical equipment, or through easing monetary policy to discourage saving and encourage borrowing. The last thing we want is for people to save because this will cause a collapse in consumer credit. Our officials understand that, and that is why I am heavily invested in retail stocks.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:08 | 1725443 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Do we need to say it one more time for the three remaining Keynesian dipshits hanging around here? You need to have savings in order to invest it into worthwhile projects that will mak emoney. Borrowing doesn't get it done, bceaus it relies on inflation or more and more sales in order to work. Eventually, the consumer "taps out" of the spending or substitutes inferior goods for the ones they have been buying. You might go long potatoes or something, but retail? Really? Good luck with that.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:12 | 1725458 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

But let's look at all the incentives to save...

Oh, I see.


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:13 | 1725466 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

"Borrowing doesn't get it done". Sure it does - its been working for our economy for the last three decades, and interest rates are at RECORD LOWS.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:15 | 1725473 Hero Protagonist
Hero Protagonist's picture

Don't you think we're just getting a little soft :).

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:28 | 1725513 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

Let the economy contract, and it'll firm up. How far you ask? About 1965 because that was when shit started to become surreal.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:37 | 1725689 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

economic collapse sign #436

sheriff's office in high crime county will STOP dispatching 911 calls at midnight

let the anarchy begin...

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:38 | 1725733 moondog
moondog's picture

+1000 Hot Lead  I'm not worried about Florida as it is a Castle Doctrine state. Looking at the future of states like NY and New Jersey is much more gloomy.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:19 | 1725482 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

And debt has crippled the government, the banks and made the dollar worthless. You have a strange definition of "getting it done". The economy is destroyed and wealth has fled into the banksters accounts. Interest rates are at record lows because they arbitrarily set versus allowing the market to reward capital formation. 

All we get are discount trolls...

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:26 | 1725505 Sledge
Sledge's picture

"[The] abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit.... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value... The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.... [This] is the shabby secret of the welfare statist's tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights."

Alan Greenspan in an article he wrote in 1966.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 15:18 | 1727043 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

now he eats children

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:29 | 1725519 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

"Borrowing doesn't get it done". Sure it does - its been working for our economy for the last three decades, and interest rates are at RECORD LOWS.

You're not even very bright about it.. All it has done was encourge unsustainable debt and the transfer of our industrial base to a non-producing fairy tale economy. And that's just for starters.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:44 | 1725566 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

It works until it doesn't...just as always. But when you can't continue to make the Keynesian multiplier grow...well BOOM!!! or bust as the case usually is. When will you learn? Well, there's nothing so bad as one who willfully will not see.

(Disclaimer- I've borrowed to the hilt to invest in inverse ETFs and PMs. So borrowing can help in some ways, especially with the chief inflationist being at the helm of the Fed.)

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:45 | 1725568 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Great, I don't need to keep my money in the bank then making no interest. They will just print more when I withdraw mine anyway.

Keep interest rates low, and the banks are going to regret boosting all their bogus fees.

Getting people to borrow money that does not exist is as funny a concept as your comedy routine.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:49 | 1725581 centerline
centerline's picture

Funny. I have always had a desire to create another login just to poke the beehive with the broken MMT stick to keep this place on it's toes. Thankfully there are still some folks around like you to keep the ball rolling! LOL.

From here, I think you push back with the line that the current problem is not too much debt - it is lack of the government and Fed not creating enough new stimulus debt to actually do what is needed to get the private sector out of the hole it is in!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:59 | 1725605 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

look out below centerline

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:38 | 1725540 kinganuthin
kinganuthin's picture

So you want me to dump assets, for more debt in the name of a tax credit?  Yeah, right after I hire someone at 35K a year that I dont need for a free 5K..
Thank you for playing "should or should we not, follow the advice of the galactically stupid?"

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:09 | 1725446 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Look if youre going to be an effective troll, it takes much better work than what youre presently producing. More words does not mean better trolling. For instance, 'electrical equipment'? Egad...youve lost it man.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:28 | 1725516 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I don't consider him a troll, more like comic relief. I mean he's the equivalent of a mime; you can't hear him, you can barely stand to watch(read) him, and as with passing one on the street, you laugh at the banal stupidity and walk away. DON'T FEED THE MIMES!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:01 | 1725612 fuu
fuu's picture

Can we beat the mimes?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:38 | 1725732 pods
pods's picture

If you beat a mime in the forest and there is no one around to hear him scream, does it make a noise?


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 12:34 | 1726231 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

ROFL. If you break his arms first, not even other Mimes can...

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:11 | 1725453 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



You haven't taken the red pill yet, have ya sport?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:29 | 1725518 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

MDB manufactures the blue pills mayhem.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:33 | 1725455 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

They tried all that. It didn't work the first time
won't work this time. But you keep pretending to be

The only option left to stimulate the economy before a prolonged depression, is war. Real war. Not the destabilization bullshit the government keeps fucking up.

Hope people wake up to this fact soon. Or you will be sending your sons off to die for more bullshit.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 11:15 | 1725859 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Do your research. "Real war" does NOT stimulate the economy. That theory has been debunked. Consider the serious shortages of basic materials such as copper, steel, paper pulp, FOOD, energy, etc. that existed during WWII (the last "real" war). These are not the earmarks of a stimulated economy, they are earmarks of a seriously depressed standard of living.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 16:10 | 1727263 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

You are right. You don't have to convince me!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 15:12 | 1727014 smiler03
smiler03's picture

How many wars will it take?

2? 3? 4 or more?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 16:19 | 1727269 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

Zero as far as I am concerned.  Again, you don't have to convince me!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 16:13 | 1727278 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:12 | 1725460 spankthebernank
spankthebernank's picture trolling clown

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:15 | 1725472 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I agree, we wouldn't want to be unfair to banks! They merely caused the crisis, live off the debt interest they encourage the government to create, they charge 29% on credit cards- the benevolence is off the charts!

We could encourage savings and the formation of capital that could be used to produce goods and services, creating jobs and then allowing consumers who can now feed themselves to look for something to purchase too, but I can see that the creation of more debt by the government would be so much preferred.

Are you for real? Don't they put you trolls through a class at least?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:21 | 1725490 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

This is the best, most consistent sattire ZH has ever seen. We should appreciate MillionDollarBonus' work here, it really is quite hilarious.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:33 | 1725530 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Thanks Steve, having paying enough attention.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:17 | 1725620 fuu
fuu's picture

I guess if you enjoy listening to the same bullshit spewed on every other media outlet it is funny otherwise it is just sad attention whoring.

Then again the comment section does echo.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 19:03 | 1727774 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

It's all about context dude....

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:26 | 1725501 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

and that is why I am heavily invested in retail stocks.

And that's why you will be broke.. A saying comes to mind... "a fool and his money are easily separated"


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 11:48 | 1726009 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Always worth a laugh, thanks MDB. Your my kind of troll. ;)

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:20 | 1725485 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i thought the reason slavery failed was because Wall Street determined it was too expensive and got rid of it.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 11:04 | 1725825 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Sir, your logic is warped. If the entire wester world is for sale, wouldn't that mean a desperate need for cash, ie that fiat SURGES?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 13:54 | 1726632 Hayabusa
Hayabusa's picture

Pay off notes with a few ounces of physical... LOL!  Keep dreaming and snorting on the physical "riches" dream pipe.  You must work for APMEX, or be heavily invested in PMs to say this kind of crap!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:48 | 1725369 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Im dragging money out of the bank too, just to have cash on hand. I dont know how long it will be worth anything, but at least I have it and its not just some entry on a screen. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:00 | 1725407 Esso
Esso's picture

I'm not sure why anyone would keep money in a bank now. The interest on a $15,000 deposit amounts to about $3.00/yr.

You can get a pretty nice digital wall safe at Harbor Freight for less than $70 if you're obsessed with "safety."

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:07 | 1725436 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I still have the big floor safe my grand dad used as his bank. He saw the great depression and refused to ever put a dime within grasp of a bankers claw hand.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:02 | 1725417 Overflow-admin
Overflow-admin's picture

Yup, thanks to globalization I had to use the same strategy... since september and the SNB berserk, I withdraw 60% of my net income -> cash.

(not talking about barbarous relics / sarc)

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:26 | 1725504 pops
pops's picture

Yep.  At less than 1% return, there's not much incentive to keep it in the bank.  I've been converting it to gold and silver (price be damned) and I'm hitting the ATM for the max every day to have a source of ready cash when they declare a "bank holiday."

Cleared all my debts, gave away my TV (very liberating) and learned to thrive on beans and cornbread.  I may not be much fun to share a bed with (think dutch oven) but I sleep soundly.

I once had to live with only a weapon, entrenching tool and poncho.  I haven't forgotten how.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 11:17 | 1725868 donsluck
donsluck's picture

You sleep in a dutch oven?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:53 | 1725593 centerline
centerline's picture

Been doing the same thing for some time now. Worst case scenerio is that cash still has functional value, but the banks are closed or place limits on withdrawals a la Argentina. No sense in not covering the bases here when there isn't much too it.

Just make sure the cash is safe and secure. In my case, in a good safe guarded by a 90 lb German Shepherd.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:49 | 1725371 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

anyone who tries to save is an enemy of the bernank.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:50 | 1725373 Jayda1850
Jayda1850's picture

I think the DOJ would label that "economic terrorism"

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:51 | 1725376 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No shit.  Weinmar indeed.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:55 | 1725374 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So let me guess....U Mich 'consumer confidence' phone poll gets bra stuffed and lipstick applied, so this gets deleted and euphoria springs anew.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:50 | 1725375 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

They were betting it all on a big rescue from Bernank and Co. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:51 | 1725378 ParaZite
ParaZite's picture

Savings accounts = loaning the banks your money, for their profit. 

Maybe the American Consumer just realized the banks are doing nothing for them, so they said, F U, you can't have my money to lend?

Or perhaps everyone is so busy begging for change, that they don't have enough money to put into a bank account for  zero percent interest?

Why save your money, when there are really no incentives to save?

I earn almost the same interest by sticking my money under a mattress, and I have no withdraw or atm fees associated with pulling my money out at any time.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:12 | 1725457 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

You think BAC just gave the Bank of Serta a few more customers?

I got to thinking, oh, 4.5 least they're still saving something, until I remembered that they rejiggered the stats to include 401K contributions. I have a required 5% contribution to my account so that my employer will give the 8% "match" from their side. I've already cashed out the 401K from a previous employer. And when I'm gone from here, I'll be doing the same. So, are we back to negative savings rates...same as always?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:52 | 1725379 Gandalf6900
Gandalf6900's picture

if you save it means you are sick and need a cure...

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:54 | 1725385 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Personal income drops for the first time since Oct 09.    PLUS:

The price index for personal consumption expenditures rose 2.9% on a year-over-year basis in August, a bit faster than the year-over-year gain in July. 

=What kind of _flation? 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:04 | 1725427 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture




Throwing more fiat onto the burning mass.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:06 | 1725434 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Right on. Burning through money at a faster rate

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:58 | 1725387 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

The amreican consumer might be tapping savings to cover credit card purchases from the summer of recovery 2.0.

Credit is dead and cash is king.

I will wait for Prince PM, to usurp the throne.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:25 | 1725500 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Credit? Fo-getit!  You got it, you get it.

--closing line in a 70s radio ad for a mo-town audio shop.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:56 | 1725389 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Obama: "America's gotten soft".

Americans: We're living on savings, you asswhipe.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:57 | 1725397 ParaZite
ParaZite's picture

I like how Obama makes America's problems seem like errectile disfunction.

Where's the Viagra Bernanke? We swallowed the little blue pill and all we got was a little green shoot, and now we've went soft. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:18 | 1725476 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Zimbabwe economics

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:58 | 1725398 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Says Obama, the guy who has never worked a day in his life as he stuffs his face full of lobster thermadore and plans his next $7 million dollar vacation.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:56 | 1725393 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Dont consumers know what their only purpose is? Borrow money at 20% interest and go BUY crap! Get crackin, peasants, or the screws will REALLY get turned!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:27 | 1725507 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yeah, that and austerity . . . uh-huh .  .  . no wonder people don't understand economics.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:58 | 1725399 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

For now, "saving" is lower in priority than (1) building liquidity and (2) converting 'perishable' units of exchange to things that store value. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:00 | 1725409 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea like food and ammo.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:19 | 1725481 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

The best generals do not win battles by having plenty of ammo.  They win by being in the right place at the right time. 

If you are in a place where you think you may seriously need ammo when TSHTF, then the best investment you can possibly make is to figure out a better place that you can get to and frikking di di mao right now.

It's a hard thing to do, and you need to do it about a year ago.  But it's better than gold, better than food, and way the fuck better than ammo.  There are places where you have your own land, your own water, and you're glad to have neighbors instead of afraid of them.  If you feel that we are close to the Big Change -- find one of those places and go there.

Once you get there, it's fine to have ammo.  I do.  I think that 2.75" 12 gauge buckshot is the closest thing to universal ammo there is.  I have a shocking amount of it, and I know how to make more.  I have so much because, if the worst things happen I will hand boxes of it to all my neighbors.

so :

1. a good place

2.  good neighbors

3.  water

4.  food

5. heat

6.  the ability to grow food

7. ammo for you and your neighbors

8.  junk silver U.S. coins

9.  books

10. a ZH hat, in case you need to come to my place begging for any of the above.


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:38 | 1725543 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

SSSHHHHH! Dammit man, you keep this up and MillionDollarBoner's gonna be moving in next door! I bought property 10 years ago and while I'm not built out the way I intended, I've got the room to grow, literally. Just wish I could chain link and barb wire the whole place and had poured my walkout level's ceiling in 6 in. concrete instead of regular framing. I think it's great that when the county inspectors were coming out several of them drove by and never even knew a house was here. I have no 'savings' because every spare cent goes to food and PM's. I only use banks to move money from one place to another and then remove it in FRN's. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:26 | 1725617 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Oh, I don't think MDB will be stopping by.   I hope he comments, though! 

On second thought, here -- I will write an MDB_1.0 comment so that he doesn't have to.


This kind of alarmism is OBVIOUS PROPAGANDA and only serves to confuse weak-minded readers.  The bailouts put in place by the government and the Federal Reserve have ALREADY turned the corner on the economy.  The approach that's being taken has ALWAYS WORKED and is clearly ...  
it's clearly .. it's, um...  the approach is .....

oh god.  god.  i can't ..  please.  somebody...  they don't let me out.  i can't

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 12:31 | 1726219 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

You or SD1 ever read the Deep Winter Trilogy? Similar to Patriots by JWR. Just good zombie-filled friction...

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 14:00 | 1726663 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I will take a look!  I am ... friendly to the idea of self-published SF.      :-)

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:42 | 1725558 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

With a good rifle and plenty of ammo, all else is easily obtained. 'Know thy enemy'...and it wont be neighbors, unless youve already set this up with them years ago and theyre 100% onboard. When things turn real shitty suddenly, theyll all turn zombie. Theyll attack you for what youve got, or turn you in for what youve got. 

Watch who you trust very carefully, the american sheeple may be docile right now but theyll turn vicious on a dime.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:25 | 1725683 kinganuthin
kinganuthin's picture

I work in the city, but you bet your ass i do not live there.  Co-workers often ask how I can live among so many rednecks out in the sticks.. i just laugh, and reply "Ok tree hugger".


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 08:59 | 1725404 digalert
digalert's picture

...and I should put my money where?

In a bank? Fuck the banksters

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:02 | 1725415 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Now I understand what my grandfather was saying years ago, grumbling how about how no rotten bankers are ever getting his money into an account. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:01 | 1725411 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

"The US consumer is getting tapped out, with spending coming entirely from savings" Hold on I'm putting on my prescription Selective Reading glasses. But they are spending, right? Bullish, I'm buying the dip weeeeee!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:03 | 1725421 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Actually no, yesterdays news was the 'consumer' is also tapped out on buying as well, as that data hit the new lows.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:02 | 1725413 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Put this together with the recent exceptional drought in consumer sentiment.  Once upon a time, savings was low because everyone was confident.  Not now.  If sentiment is near record lows, and savings is also near record lows -- um -- that means we've all run out of options.

Nothing left to lose.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:26 | 1725503 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture


I would love to see the champagne swilling elites at occupy wall street get the midevil punishment they deserve.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:05 | 1725432 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Summer of recovery part ll. lol!  

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:07 | 1725437 bullchit
bullchit's picture

How's that "occupy Wall St." protest going Durden?........Durden??........DURDEN???
Too busy sucking cock I expect.


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:12 | 1725461 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well, Tyler never talked about it much at all, however today 30,000 NYC transit union members are joining the protest.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:21 | 1725488 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

bullchit is another BAC infiltrator, these weasels are everywhere!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:45 | 1725529 Bob
Bob's picture

The comment was clearly in poor taste, but speaking to the content: What do you make of the issue itself?  How is it that the "radical" critics in the finance community are effectively colluding with the corporate mass media embargo against the only significant protest of the Wall Street oligarchy to date?

It's continuing to grow, almost solely on the backs of the liberal fringe, so the damage will ultimately be negligible . . . except for the finance industry.  Why would ZH effectively align itself via ommission and neglect with the banksters? 

I love my ZH, but this one is hard to square favorably.      

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:49 | 1725577 bullchit
bullchit's picture

I thought the comment reflected what ZH has recently become. Sorry to offend you there Bob.
Where's Layne when you need some decent imput.


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:05 | 1725607 Bob
Bob's picture

Yeah, while it doesn't technically break any rules of Fight Club, it does offend to the extent that folks identify with our Leader. Cock in mouth and all.

FWIW, the "voting" tally on your comment is inexplicably skewed.  I was willing to give you a vote on the basis of content rather than form, yet it was registered as one "for" and nine "against."  When I attempted to reverse my steps, it shifted to twelve against. 

The software seems to have its own preferences at times.  My guess is that the voting on SheepDogOne's reply is a reasonable proxy for the sentiment on the actual content of yours. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:14 | 1725642 fuu
fuu's picture

Others hit the down while you dithered? The arrows update on any change even if the page has not refreshed.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:16 | 1725656 Bob
Bob's picture

No, I can toggle back and forth between my own "for" and "against" votes (simple erasure/full reset is not an option) and the result is either +1/-9 or +0/-12. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:20 | 1725666 fuu
fuu's picture

Odd. Does it happen on other comments of just that one?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:25 | 1725686 Bob
Bob's picture

Yeah, it's not a rare thing, though it's not the norm either.  Beats me--maybe I'm "special," lol. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:33 | 1725716 fuu
fuu's picture

You are the FAZ of comment arrows.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:38 | 1725533 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

I guess you missed the, Revolution comes to America, piece yesterday.

The OWS crowd is partly socialist, and the aren't protesting against the real culprits.

If they focused on JPM, GS, C, BoA, and the FED, I would be there.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:50 | 1725587 Bob
Bob's picture

The OWS is "partly" alot of different consituencies.  Ron Paul is represented well. 

The fact is, the entire effort was organized on a "Field of Dreams" model.  Build the field and the players will come. The message was deliberately left unsettled in deference to notions of truly participatory democracy. 

What we're seeing, imo, is who actually shows up when the bullshit meets the road. 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:03 | 1725614 tickhound
tickhound's picture



"If they focused on JPM, GS, C, BoA, and the FED, I would be there."

The "partly" crowd IS partly, if not mainly, focused there. 

You can wait to join the partly capitalist crowd once the RINO wagon picks you up.  Hold your breath.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:32 | 1725707 swissbene
swissbene's picture

go check it out.  plenty of anti fed sentiment there.  also sympathy for your disdain of {jpm, c, bac, gs, ...}.

the movement in current form may not be optimal, but at least we see americans showing some presence.  more bodies and more support will help.  2m citizens in manhattan would achieve a different level of awareness and psychological impact on corporate-political parasite class ... and the pigs at nypd (sorry heroes i mean).

enemy's enemy == friend

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:39 | 1725739 WoodMizer
WoodMizer's picture

Socialism is a dangerous friend.

The broken window fallacy underpins communism and socialism.

The ignorant masses will not side with freedom if it means no wealth redistrubution.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 11:40 | 1725979 tickhound
tickhound's picture

I see... Corporate welfare, fantasy accounting, zirp, an inflationary monetary policy, pillaged retirement accounts and the overall rape of our middle class is freedom?

So what would you be protesting at Wall Street exactly?  Higher fucking bank fees?

Don't confuse the sorry state of our entitlement programs with the more recent trickle up effect of wealth redistribution... One may confuse you with the "ignorant masses"

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:09 | 1725447 dcb
dcb's picture

well according to krugman we need more QE qnd inflation to help us broke people out.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:24 | 1725474 Jayda1850
Jayda1850's picture

Krugman goes on and on saying the right wants to kill the ederly and the poor by cutting medicare, medicaid and social sec., yet advocates more inflation which hurts the elderly, living on fixed income, and the poor, who spend most of their money on food and energy. All with a straight face. What a dick!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:10 | 1725449 Marzen
Marzen's picture

Just fucking crash already!  I am sick of all this foreplay!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:10 | 1725451 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Absolutely no doubt QE3 will come now.  They will take one last try at reviving the corpse before the collapse.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:19 | 1725470 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Theyve never been 'trying to revive the corpse' at all, thats what people keep misunderstanding, their plan from the start was ensure THIS depression was so big no one could ever possibly get out of it and they'd then have clear path to their 1 world govt, 1 world currency, and the New World Order. 

Ive been warning people about it for years and called a kook, now its plainly obvious.

People actually believe they hired Bernank the 'foremost expert on depressions' to get us OUT of a depression? Anyone STILL believe that today? No he was selected to get us INTO the Greatest Depression!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:27 | 1725508 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Blind we have been
If true this be......

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 13:39 | 1726572 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

bernanke is the enemy of the true economy

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:38 | 1729234 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Agree 100%.  You really have to marvel at the naivete of the sheeple.  They think their glorious Ivy League educated overlords are just as stupid as they are.  Hardly.


They have been planning for one world government and the New World Order for multiple GENERATIONS.  This system is theirs to manipulate at will.  It is of their design, creation, and they exercise active control over it.  If it is "collapsing" it is a controlled demolition.


At the end of this European "crisis" we will have one central taxing authority in Europe.  A central treasury, and no national sovereignty for member states.  They will have as much sovereignty as California has from the U.S. federal government - none.  You see that's the point.  That was always the point.


How else does one destroy the Bill of Rights and break the will of a strong and proud people?  How else does one convince the American people to give up national sovereignty and embrace the North American Union, followed by the New World Order?  It's a multi-pronged and multi-generational approach - and it's working.


1. brainwashing in the compulsory public schools

2. mass immigration of "more pliable" peoples from South of the border

3. slave training for the next generations through the police state like school environment and ever increasingly strict "security measures"

4. outright denial of constitutional rights by the very top levels of the U.S. federal government (see: Obamacare, attacks on the second amendment, attacks on the first amendment, free speech zones, assassination of U.S. citizens using aerial death drones without judge or jury, etc.).


Quite frankly, I feel sorry for those of you with children.  Your children are going to be slaves to the Neofeudal aristocracy that is setting themselves up to rule humanity forever.  Assuming they survive the first several waves of pre-planned die offs to reduce the human population to a number that the elite have decided is best for mother gaia.


And there is nothing you or I can do about it.  Look upon their power and despair - the power to build empires and destroy civilizations at will.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:11 | 1725454 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

IPO Family Quarter Store up soon

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:19 | 1725477 paulie
paulie's picture

It's "Brace, brace" already

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:20 | 1725486 sabra1
sabra1's picture

mommy, daddy, is santa claus coming this year? well, damn it! is he or isn't he?

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:21 | 1725491 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Burn this mutherfucker down!

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:23 | 1725493 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

And still no big refi announced.  Every day they wait makes it less effective.  They have to get it before the big default comes.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:27 | 1725510 Belarus
Belarus's picture

This is exactly why anyone expecting the U.S. to follow the deflationary path of Japan will be wrong not once, not twice, but many times over. Japan's consumer had a savings rate of 22% going into their collapse. Since we are entering our next collapse, we don't have near that kind of savings, which if it were all put toward U.S. Treasury bonds there is no way we fund our governement--it's just not enough money, as it was in Japan to fund Japan's huge deficits (though that too is close to a tipping point).

It's why without printere, expect a 30's style depression. With Bazooka Ben, expect and complete collapse of the U.S. dolllar. It's funny how Japan has completely slipped out of ALL the news recently. They are as fucked as anyone.

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:29 | 1729219 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Japan is largely a radioactive death zone.  The Japanese people have decided its best to muddle through and accept their shortened life spans and freakish birth defects than shut down Tokyo and everything within 500 miles of Fukushima (which probably wouldn't be sufficient).

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 09:39 | 1725546 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Ha, yes, 22% savings. How about 2% for us before this is over. The failed banks should be shut down, broken up into little pieces, move the valuable parts to solvent small banks, credit unions, put the ones in charge and responsible on trial and file for bankruptcy, lets get this shit over with.


Fri, 09/30/2011 - 10:00 | 1725611 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I think the more interesting question is "How does the BLS calculate the GDP on homes not paying thier mortgage AND not paying rent?"  You see, the BLS uses what you WOULD have been paying in rent if you didnt own as part of the GDP.  But you neither own nor rent.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 11:50 | 1726014 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

and rents are on the rise in SoCal. the CPI and this measure are going to take a hit. as the foreclosures slowly drip drip out these people have no where to go but apartments.

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 12:33 | 1726118 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

weak income, BiCheZ!

baaaack-to-school shopping was from the "clearance" racks, for many, and i noticed penney's, sears, and kohl,s using "cash coupons + huge sales" events, as i recall...

cotton stuff on clearance is good to go!  i've recently found some ridiculous prices on a coupla new +brand+quality+  XLg bath towels, and some black 100% egyptian cotton briefs with several 3-paks in my size marked down from $15.00 to...$3.00(!) for $16 i got 2 nice heavy cotton towels and 6 prs of upscale unmentionables, and most of the salez taxes paid, too... 

i wonder if women are threatened by piratical hetero-male shopping?  prob'ly just the straight ones.  both of them...  which is why i didn't mention how the cash-off coupons worked into this deal via...  well, if you don't know, i ain't a-gonna tell ya!  but this wasn't in august;  i took this stuff aboard in september, when the retailers were in sheer panic mode, perhaps?  maybe some of the less fortunate parents even waited a week or three to finish their relentless assaults to meet their children's needs to dress according to local customs? 

Fri, 09/30/2011 - 12:48 | 1726294 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I'm the anti-shopper. I only buy on clearance and then in quantity typically. I buy more than I need NOW, so I'll have some THEN. I also buy clearance and then re-sell it to cover my shopping trips. No coupons because I seldom eat the carb and sugar-laden, indigestible, GMO, crack-in-a-box like the average American. People look at you like you're a moron if you buy 6 packs of TP on sale, 8 cases of water, and enough canned goods for a family of six(and I'm single). You can never have enough TP, I mean when the SHTF, what are you going to wipe it off with? Your fingers? You only have to look at the sheeple that packed the stores before the recent storms because they had nothing in the pantry and then went BACK to the stores to return FOOD after the storm passed?! It's really reached that level of ignorance out there?  Ordering more ammo, pronto...

Sat, 10/01/2011 - 14:26 | 1729210 MarketWatchTerrorist
MarketWatchTerrorist's picture

Some interesting discussion of how to best play/fuck  "the system" in this thread.


Here's my plan:


1. Convert 80% of my liquid assets into PMs.

2. Keep 3 month expenses on hand in cash.

3. Shut down all accounts with major banks and stick to credit unions.  Keep minimal assets in them.

4. When I inevitably lose my job, run up all of my credit cards living like a member of the elite (foreign vacations, fine dining, and other expenses that do not produce assets that can be repossessed) for as long as I can.  Obviously I won't be paying back those credit card debts.

5. During that time when I have no income, empty my 401K plans (since I don't want them taxed at a high rate which they would be if I emptied them while working).

6. Continue to avoid debt that involves equity (i.e. real estate).


But I really expect things to get so bad in America (they're pretty much already there, if you're paying attention) that at the end of my "fuck the system" plan I would be best served leaving and never returning.  Pack up the PMs and cash, cross into Mexico, get on a plane to somewhere (maybe Europe, if I'm going to be a slave I might as well be a well kept one with 8 weeks of paid vacation every year), and never come back.


If you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my studies learning Spanish and German to give myself multiple avenues of escape from the American police state.

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