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US Navy Says Any Disruption To Straits Of Hormuz "Will Not Be Tolerated"
Just out from Reuters:
- U.S. FIFTH FLEET SAYS ANY DISRUPTION OF NAVIGATION IN HORMUZ STRAIT "WILL NOT BE TOLERATED"
Compare this statement with what an Iranian navy chief said earlier:
Closing off the Gulf to oil tankers will be "easier than drinking a glass of water" for Iran if the Islamic state deems it necessary, state television reported on Wednesday, ratcheting up fears over the world's most important oil chokepoint.
"Closing the Strait of Hormuz for Iran's armed forces is really easy ... or as Iranians say it will be easier than drinking a glass of water," Iran's navy chief Habibollah Sayyari told Iran's English language Press TV.
"But right now, we don't need to shut it as we have the Sea of Oman under control and we can control the transit," said Sayyari, who is leading 10 days of exercises in the Strait.
It appears that just like in the case of the ECB, where all the powers involved need a crash of some sort to proceed with "next steps" so the same mentality has now gripped the US Fifth Fleet.
And more on the original story:
The U.S. Fifth Fleet said on Wednesday it will
not allow any disruption of traffic in the Strait of Hormuz, after Iran
threatened to stop ships moving through the strategic oil route.
"The free flow of goods and services through the Strait of Hormuz is
vital to regional and global prosperity," a spokesperson for the
Bahrain-based fleet said in a written response to queries from Reuters
about the possibility of Iran trying to close the waterway.
"Anyone who threatens to disrupt freedom of navigation in an
international strait is clearly outside the community of nations; any
disruption will not be tolerated."
Asked whether it was taking
specific measures in response to the threat to close the Strait, the
fleet said it "maintains a robust presence in the region to deter or
counter destabilizing activities", without providing further detail.
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China and Russia are natural enemies (one has people but needs resources - the other has resources but not many people - both are right next to each other). Any alliance between them will be a marriage of convenience only and will be short-lived.
very true, but they've never dealt with a dying america robbing oil everywhere
"The US cannot be beaten at sea or in the air - agreed. One carrier fleet should take out the Iranian Navy."
Think outside the box i.e. Asymmetry.
http://globalmilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2011/12/russia-delivers-yakhont-supersonic.html
Carrier groups are lumbering and vulnerable. War game 10 of these missiles coming in @ mach 2.6 from several directions at once.
Complacency is dangerous.
My view is that we are broke and should lay off the "foreign entanglements" and focus on our many domestic malignancies.
Good point - brings to mind the war game on the eve of the Iraq war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/21/usa.julianborger
http://www.rense.com/general64/fore.htm
"The Army Times reported that, as commander of a low-tech, third-world army, Gen Van Riper appeared to have repeatedly outwitted US forces.
He sent orders with motorcycle couriers to evade sophisticated electronic eavesdropping equipment. When the US fleet sailed into the Gulf, he instructed his small boats and planes to move around in apparently aimless circles before launching a surprise attack which sank a substantial part of the US navy. The war game had to be stopped and the American ships "refloated" so that the US forces stood a chance.
"Instead of a free-play, two-sided game as the joint forces commander advertised it was going to be, it simply became a scripted exercise. They had a predetermined end, and they scripted the exercise to that end," Gen Van Riper said. He said he quit when he found out his orders were being over ruled by the military coordinators of the game."
Here's the problem with your scenario. Let's assume for a minute that you are correct and a bunch of guys in dinghies can sink the U.S. 5th fleet. What would happen next? What is Iran's vulnerability? The one thing Iran has going for it is its oil production. Take that away from them and they starve to death very quickly. They sink the 5th Fleet, the U.S. air force destroys Iran's entire oil production capability. Iran is a big, open, mostly-desert country. No way to hide or protect your infrastructure from the U.S. air force. Game over.
Elvisdog - do us a favour and check out the flow of the argument:
1) I said that the US was invincible at sea and in the air
2) Dantzler pointed out that asymmetric warfare can hurt the US at sea - invincibility is not a given
3) I thanked Dantzler for reminding me of the Millenium Challenge, and agreed that asymmetric warfare could hurt the US. I cited to the articles to support my new idea.
For the record I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying either. The US has sufficient productive capacity to make good its losses. Sure, the US could pound Iran to a fine dust. I don't doubt all of that. But even in victory, it doesn't look good for the President or the military to have 16 warships at the bottom of the Gulf and thousands of dead sailors.
Furthermore, even if the US wins militarily, it hurts itself in other ways. The Iraq war cost USD 3 trillion (direct and indirect costs) to fight. Sure, the US won. But it hurt the US in so many other ways. I'd argue that it was one of the worst mistakes Dubya ever made in his presidency.
War can yield an immediate result today, but the real winners and losers will not be known until many years after.
Then the price of oil skyrockets, hyperinflation is unleashed, interest rates reach double digits, the US and Europe can not afford to pay even the interest on their debt, governments and economies implode. Game over.
PS - Iran is a not a desert, it is mountainous counrty. If you want to go to war with another nation you should at least learn something about its geography. How many US troops would freeze in the mountains if you as their quartermaster outfitted them for desert operations?
duplicate
Try reading my post before your knee-jerk reaction. Where did I say "ground troops"? Are their oil production facilities in the mountains? Most of them aren't. Read your own post - all the "stuff" are located on basins and plateaus. Easy pickings for airplane attacks. Also, I just looked at a topographhic map of Iran and I would estimate 75-80% of the country is listed as "arid" or "semi-arid". So calling it a desert country is accurate.
As far as oil skyrocketing, hyperinflation, etc., etc., the sinking of the U.S. 5th fleet (in my opinion ridiculous but let's go with it) would require a shock-and-awe response. If the U.S. did not respond in such a manner, it would be "game over" for the U.S. and for the political prospects of the U.S. president and his/her political party. Besides, what percentage of World oil consumption does Iran provide? A few percent perhaps? Not enough to ignite global meltdown I think.
Iran is the world's fourth largest oil producer, third largest exporter and controls the second largest fleet of tankers in OPEC. But you just keep asking American boys to fight and die based on your faulty intelligence.
Why don't you do some research on your own before posting any more embarrassingly inaccurate statements?
You really are a fucktard, Crockett. In 2005 Iran produced about 4 million barrels a day. That is about 5% of world daily production. Seems pretty consistent with my "few percent" statement. Seriously, it's like arguing with a 8 year-old.
But the facts are inconsistent with your belief that total destruction of Iranian oil production wouldn't cause a spectacular rise in prices. The world's economies can not absorb a 5% drop in oil production. Destroying the output of the world's third largest exporter would be catastrophic by any standard.
And thanks for the ad hominem attack. It only goes to weaken your ethos and strengthen mine.
.
Thanks for reminding me of that article - I think I first read the story in Malcolm Gladwell's book Blink. Van Riper used very smart tactics to win that - 16 US warships at the bottom of the Gulf in 3 days!
oh please, the
doesn't prevent amrka from using weapons of mass destruction (depleted uranium) which fucks with the DNA (genocide) of everyone "engaged" - not just the "enemy" - and certainly doesn't stop amrka from testing their biowarfare agents on both the locals & those "serving" - search what fresh new virus they're releasing via "ticks" up in those hills - ticks don't care which uniform you're wearing, *nods*
but you're right, "Afghanistan isn't really a war" - it's a genocidal theft of another state's resources, at the expense of ALL there, bar the elites.
double post :(
It wasn't even worth posting once. Unreadable.
[junk]
War's typically are not wham, bam, thank you maam events. The huge tech advantage of the USA war machine on smaller opponents has created the perception of the opposite (Shock and Awe BS). The events have only been tactical battles not strategic wars. Under the longer ginding battle the only measureable goal is to degrade the enemies ability to do you harm. In that regard Agfhanistan check, Iraq check. I did not agree with the Iraq War but did agree with the Afghan War. What I think personally is irrelevant. What is relevent is the armoured footprint surrounding Iran in Afghan and Iraq,. This has degraded Iran's ability to expand and arm terrorist organizations. To those who say we are only playong into Iran's hand and increasing their power in the region I would respond, "WTF do you think Iran would have if we were not there?, Passivity is not an option. Think of USSR supppoted Red Brigade terrorists during the Cold War. This war will end either coldly or hotly.
It would be ironic if the war went hot over the Staits at this point just at the time just when the the USA is tasked with an expensive demobilization of war assets from Iraq and Afghanistan. Just like Saddam who started a fight when the Iron Curtain was being demobilized, Saddam then and potentially like the Ayatollah now would be saying," Hey, don't waste your money shipping those weapons back to the USA: Use them on me"!!!!!
The Red Brigades were supported by the CIA.
This has degraded Iran's ability to expand and arm terrorist organizations.
Impossible for Iran to do that since those terrorist organizations were / are created and maintained by America's CIA.
Iran supporting "terrorism" is a bogus argument, just like Afghanistan and Iraq supporting "terrorism" are bogus arguments.
"Terrorism" itself is a bogus argument. "Terrorism" is the cover story for American imperialism.
Bugman, Coursemate is a blood-brother. If he tells you he was in "exercises" in the Indian Ocean with a US Navy Fleet and they sucked at x, y and z, I believe him.
Plus, Is it not obvious that the US war machine is so bloated, so in-efficient and completely supply line dependent that any major hit to that is curtains.
All your wins have been against GRENADA, PANAMA, Haiti.... brave, very brave.
Latest exploits (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya), all the US does is rute force, more brute force, bomb, chemical weapons, white phosphorous... break every rule in the book.
Americans should be weepiing in SHAME for what their military represents, not getting all jingostic and huffy.
RIght there is the problem.
Be proud of this
/this-that-and-the-4th-reich/
And sleep well at night.
ori
I do weep in shame for the idiocy of our political leaders and their projection of our military industrial complex. I do weep in shame that our nation is an imperliastic empre. However, that does not mean I speak untruths about the US military and its capabilities. It is a force beyond any other in the history of the world and its only purpose should be the defense of our nation and not the projection of power we see.
Your bloated military is an anachronism...cripplingly expensive...a liability and a danger to the people of the US and the world. It has become a monstrosity whose unimaginable terror and violence will soon (after defeat or pyhric victory in the gulf) be turned on the subjects of the former US republic. Good luck.
How do you think you win wars? By killing people and breaking things and generally pounding the Enemy into a fine paste. Who decides when a war is over? The Loser when he is too exhausted to fight anymore and/or his military disintegrates. And I proudly say: better them than us. Trouble is too many of you bleeding heart, ass clowns get your panties tied up in a bunch when we visit asymmetric destruction on our enemies. I say, have at it with no apologies for being the biggest, meanest MF on the planet. Instead of spending so much $$ on useless entitlements, we should be building up our military--at least that will boost employment and pay dividends in the future. Any "hearts and minds" strategy is just so much happy-crap.
Oh, and I call BS on Allies with next to no military (like Canada or any European country) who supposedly laugh at the capabilities of the US Military. They are jealous because they get jack squat in terms of funding or training. These are the same guys who are afraid to come out of their bases when there is REAL danger and (as such) are typically relegated to ineffectually enforcing UN resolutions. Its a lot easier just to say how stupid we are than to actually try to succeed.
... and American meat-muppets are so cheap to produce in vast numbers.
"How do you think you win wars? By killing people and breaking things and generally pounding the Enemy into a fine paste. Who decides when a war is over? The Loser when he is too exhausted to fight anymore and/or his military disintegrates. And I proudly say: better them than us."
Sure - let's resort to war without thinking. Because - hey! War don't cost us money right?
"Trouble is too many of you bleeding heart, ass clowns get your panties tied up in a bunch when we visit asymmetric destruction on our enemies. I say, have at it with no apologies for being the biggest, meanest MF on the planet."
No problems with beating someone up who's trying to pick on you, but visiting asymmetric destruction on your enemies cost you USD 3 trillion in Iraq. Oh and being the biggest meanest MF on the planet? Sinking you deeper and deeper into a hole of debt.
"Instead of spending so much $$ on useless entitlements, we should be building up our military--at least that will boost employment and pay dividends in the future. Any "hearts and minds" strategy is just so much happy-crap."
Pray tell how you're going to build up your military? With what money? Or have you also forgotten that every time something goes BANG, there goes at least half a million?
You obviously don't get the idea of "hearts and minds" do you? As Clausewitz put it "diplomacy is continuation of war by other means." Diplomacy enables a country to get what it wants for thousands of dollars instead of millions. Or millions instead of billions.
And to have well educated diplomats and military personnel/scientists/engineers to build, develop, design and run military equipment, you have to have a smart, healthy populace to draw from. Which means - guess what - there's a need for things like public education and affordable healthcare. You know, those "entitlement" programs you complain about.
Do ZH a favour, and start doing some reading, then some thinking. Read how Britain with 30 million people built an Empire - simple answer is diplomacy and a Navy. Do the same for Rome. Also, read what led to the decline of both Britain and Rome as empires - simple answer - it's the economy. Try understanding what China's strategy long-term is.
Don't get me wrong, I like the US a lot. I just wish some Americans would stop and think for a minute about where their country's policies are taking them long term and would realize that military means are not the best solution to everything.
If the truth be known, our debt problems have little to do with our Military and much more to do with our ever expanding Welfare state. All it takes is a quick look at a Federal Spending Pie chart to figure that out. In the 1950s, the US Military was far larger in terms of size and % of GDP and Federal Budget than today. In fact, the Military share of GDP and Federal Spending has generally been shrinking since then. Yet, we had practically no deficit in the 50s. If we scaled back the welfare state, we would have plenty of $$ for an 1980s style military buildup. And that would have the effect of keeping lots of people employed too.
I never said that Military means are the best solution to everything. But Europe (and a lot of folks on this site) seem to think that the Military is the solution to nothing and that's 100% wrong. You need to carry a big stick. In Iran's case, it's way past time we bombed them back into the Stone Age (or at least the Middle Ages). I am sick to death of many on this site who think you win wars by talking to people. That never works, which is why the UN has been so damned ineffective 95+ % of the time.
" In Iran's case, it's way past time we bombed them back into the Stone Age (or at least the Middle Ages). I am sick to death of many on this site who think you win wars by talking to people."
Back up a second there buddy - here's something for you to wrap your brain around: Sometimes you have to fight wars e.g. WW2, Afghanistan, Korea. Sometimes fighting a war is just plain stupid e.g. Vietnam, Iraq. Sometimes diplomacy is more effective than war, and waaay cheaper than war. Think about bombing Iran back into the Stone Age - how much is that going to cost? I mean both - directly and indirectly. BTW I too have a problem with the hippy peace and love crowd. I prefer to look at things in a more rational way.
"If the truth be known, our debt problems have little to do with our Military and much more to do with our ever expanding Welfare state. All it takes is a quick look at a Federal Spending Pie chart to figure that out. In the 1950s, the US Military was far larger in terms of size and % of GDP and Federal Budget than today. In fact, the Military share of GDP and Federal Spending has generally been shrinking since then. Yet, we had practically no deficit in the 50s. If we scaled back the welfare state, we would have plenty of $$ for an 1980s style military buildup. And that would have the effect of keeping lots of people employed too."
If the truth be known - the US debt problem is due to the fact that it takes in less revenue than it spends. The solution to the budget problem realistically entails reducing spending across the board and increasing taxes. If the US pulled back its defence expenditure, and instead invested on its citizens - building infrastructure, improving education, healthcare, it would be in way better shape than it is right now. Couple that with some tax increases and the US would be in much better shape financially than it is right now. This will translate into lasting power in the long term. The US was on the right path in the 90s thanks to Reagan, Bush and Clinton - the US began to realise the peacetime dividend. The budget deficit was dropping and debt was being paid off.
Cut Europe loose - about time they manned up and paid for their defences. Stop spending money on the ridiculous wars and start focusing on investing, rebuilding and strengthening the US. It will serve to strengthen the US long-term. The current trend is not the US' friend long-term.
It's time to return to the right path. The world has to realise that the US can't be its policeman any more.
Read how Britain with 30 million people built an Empire - simple answer is diplomacy and a Navy. Do the same for Rome. Also, read what led to the decline of both Britain and Rome as empires - simple answer - it's the economy. Try understanding what China's strategy long-term is.
Comparing the Empires of Rome and Britian to our "Empire" today is like comparing applies and oranges. First, we don't have an Empire in the same way that those countries did. Almost all of the countries where we have bases are allies and not hostile. The only recent exceptions were Iraq (no more) and Afghanistan. Also, the circumstances now are much different from even 100 years ago. That is due to the increased velocity of information--that makes it much harder to establish and maintan order today than before 1940 or so. Both Rome and Britain lasted as long as they did had major technological advantages over the people they were occupying--which helped. Rome lost her Empire because her people became too decadent to reproduce or defend themselves. Britain lost hers because she was decimated by two world wars and the emerging world power (the US) didn't much support European-style colonialism.
As for China, maybe you haven't noticed, but its trying to replicate the Force we have. Just yesterday, they started launching their own GPS system and are testing their first A/C carrier. They are also busy carving out colonies in Africa and Latin America.
Meanwhile we progressively disarm and send our manufacturing plants & technology to them. Our leaders are suicidal.
Both Rome and Britain lost their economic power first, then their military power. And it seems like the US is ignoring this lesson from history.
"As for China, maybe you haven't noticed, but its trying to replicate the Force we have. Just yesterday, they started launching their own GPS system and are testing their first A/C carrier. They are also busy carving out colonies in Africa and Latin America.
Meanwhile we progressively disarm and send our manufacturing plants & technology to them. Our leaders are suicidal."
Yes, they are trying to replicate the US military - but they're still heavily concentrating on building their economic power first. They realise that all empires lose economic power first, then military power declines.
Rejunal Injun: It is going GREAT in Little 'Ghani! Them Little Paki's is comin' on line any day and the whole world knows we done wun in Little 'Raqi !!! We is goin' kick us some Eye-Raynian BUTT, for sure! And Imma gunna watch it all on the Big Screen TeeVee sittin in my Barca Lounger in my livin room! The USofA is the Greatest Country the World has ever seen and I know Jesus was really an American because my Preacher told me so and besides, the Bible is in English and that proves it. Now git back to your 7-11 and sell me some beer and smokes so I can go home and watch football and git me some of them cheerleaders.
You need to study the Iraq war in 2003. We were told repeatedly that Iraq was a powerhouse that could crush Iran, and to expect 50,000+ American casualties. We were told during the first few months, anytime US troops stopped moving, that we had another 'Nam-like quagmire in the making.
Instead, that part of the war was over in months, as soon as Saddam lost the ability to wage it. Saddam thought he had the infrastructure in place to outlast us, and paid for his underestimation. He believed he had the means to fend us off, because he executed those who told him otherwise. We believed he was the shit because he believed it.
The next 90%+ of our time there was fighting to determine who would fill the power vaccuum. That was a separate war, not fought nearly as well, but then not a military's strong suit.
Rest assured nobody, not one nation on Earth, desires to see American warships moving towards their land or American bombers flying overhead.
maxi maxi maxi
YOU WERE TOLD what was required to whip you into a war fever. As it ever was.
YOU WERE TOLD.
You do realize that what you are told is what tptb wishes to have broadcast.
Does it not penetrate that Iraq-Iran fought aa war based on hand to hand trench combat for 8 YEARS.
Ha hahaha and then after that and under a most intense monitoring program that Iraq was then a major military power????????
bwhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa. YOU WERE TOLD FOOL and you bought and but it everytime.
Bullshit. The claims of Saddam's invincibility were not made with the intent to whip us into a vengeful fury but instead to talk the American people down from all-out war by putting fear of fighting in them. I clearly remember a pole that came out a ferw months after 9-11 in which thre-fourths of respondents said Iraq had something to do with it and two-thirds felt military action was warranted (a year before it actually happened). This was long before making our case to the world at the UN using questionable evidence (mobile chemical weapons launchers). Revisionists forget Saddam was a weekly if not daily part of national news coverage at the time, constantly dodging sanctions and violating no-fly zones. He wasn't just a spectre conjured up by Colin Powel. Don't fool yourself into believing that Americans cared not about Iraq after 9-11 until confronted with yellow cake claims. There would have been far more support for the invasion, right or wrong, had W done it a year earlier than he did.
American patriots want to see our ships and planes moving toward our shores in order to defend our own nation and end our onerous overseas empire.
Ron Paul 2012!
Unfortunately, ORI is correct. My brother is a colonel in the Canadian Reserves. They do joint training exercises with the U.S. regular forces and he always comes back literally laughing at their ineptitude. I guess that will happen when your recruiting base consists increasingly of latino gang bangers and other marginalized youth without a pot to piss in and little education beyond playstation wargaming.
You're back!
Is Socrates on the 10,000 bill?
This is for you:
I call BS on Allies with next to no military (like Canada or any European country) who supposedly laugh at the capabilities of the US Military. They are envious because they get jack squat in terms of funding or training. These are the same guys who are afraid to come out of their bases when there is REAL danger and (as such) are typically relegated to ineffectually enforcing UN resolutions. Its a lot easier just to say how stupid we are than to actually try to succeed.
Drachma
Not disagreeing, but when the Canadian NAVY shows me something, I might listen.
Since they do not have one, or need it, because we cover their asses since there was a Navy.
Give me a 1000 reds, Truth hurts doesn't it.
Since you brought it up, WHO's been living high, since their military budget is near nothing, because Big Bro has been baby sitting your nation since day ONE.
I know you have a great army, and troops,but when it comes to who's footing the bill, and who has eaten freely from our tax dollars.
Truth is Truth.
You got a real way with words brainiac!
With the closure of Avro, Canada outsources it's defense industry to the USA. All those jobs and techology go south to fatten the golden calf, and Canada gets American subsidiaries in exchange. And now you wannna rub it into to the face of the northern neighbors?
No wonder Amerika is reaching the end of it's period of ascendancy. What, do you work for the State Department or some other part of the diplomatic machinery? Better drop some numbers from your rolodex when your ass gets in a sling somewhere along that Khyber Pass bottleneck...with that kind of smooth talk from the American side, I suspect that there will be quite a few less volunteer colonials going out to save their bacon than last time the Anglo-American Empire called.
Yeah, I know, who needs friends when you can INFLUENCE people!
I did training with the Canadians in Europe. Bunch of faggots. Weakest Infantrymen I ever saw, not worthy of the name. Bunch of pussies. Isn't a Colonel in the Canadian Reserves equal to a Corporal in the US Army? Just wondering, faggot.
(claps)
Wow Moe - really convincing argument there buddy. Let's just resort to name calling. That always works doesn't it?
I sincerely hope youre joking ORI. The US is, by FAR, the strongest army in terms of navy capabilities in the world. Shit doesnt go by any ocean without them knowing, and then basically own the pacific and atlantic oceans - which is a requirement for any nation to become a world power. Please write down possible options for country's with a stronger naval power. I cant even think of one that comes close!
Instead of criticizing during this holiday season (i know yours is coming up in a few weeks), id rather suggest a book which might at least be a good introduction to US naval power:
http://www.amazon.com/Next-100-Years-Forecast-Century/dp/0767923057/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325086288&sr=8-1
(You dont have to agree with the predictions [though since i know youre against anything Pro-West, youll enjoy that too], but the history is top notch).
Maybe instead of continuing the mass delusion of the Anglo-bias for the next century, Friedman should be concerned about the security of Stratfor servers...
Just Sayin'
ZP, high technology, brute force and numbers do not a winning force make.
100 years? Haaaaaaah, seriously.
The soon to be 3rd world US of A will remain a global power for another century?
C'mon, I know the fleet details and capabilities, that si not what I'm talking about. if you pick the 5 highest paid NBA stars, would they make a champion team?
See?
ori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team
bad analogy
In the parlance of our times, ORI got pwned on that!
Zero Power
I cant even think of one that comes close!
I cant think of any or ALL others combined that come close,counting subs...........fergit it.
Ori, I do not think they underestimated Afghanis, IF they shut off the flow of weapons from Iran,and sealed the border into Pakistan.Afghans would be up a deep shit creek.
Correction: Aircon and Golf and Chilled Vending machines is what I meant to say, in Iraq.
ori
What's your problem with "chilled vending machines"?
The taxpayer expense to provide them.
That GMad, but much more. If a fighting force needs to carry "Life in the Good Old Home COuntry" all the way to the battlefield, you have a problem.
All you red arrowers, check out the pictures here, tell you a story: face it, US is a bully nation that is very good at "attacking" Somalia, Grenada, Panama, haiti.... all these Global Powers....
/this-that-and-the-4th-reich/
Goddamn joke.
ori
Iran is a bridge too far. it is not some poor little weak country that the U.S. can bomb into submission. this will not end well for the U.S., but that is probably exactly what has to happen for the world to move beyond the grip of the cabal currently in control.
"that is probably exactly what has to happen for the world to move beyond the grip of the cabal currently in control."
You mean "further *into* the grip of the cabal currently in control"
War is used to consolidate power. It's like a hostile takeover of competitors.
In this case it's the head honchos telling US Corp to fight Iran LLC. (small family owned business).
It's the old "let's you and him fight"....
US Corp. is the military division of Globalist Corp. US Corp has been very successful so far. A wonderful return on investment.
They have many locations worldwide from witch to serve their "customers".
its not going to work for them. not that they are not going to try. ugliness ahead, prepare accordingly.
john39, I get ya.
It's a win-win for the "head honchos" regardless. Military spending, evil rampant, chaos increasing, lots of people dying etc.
This stuff gets them off. Real people need to remove their consent (accidental or otherwise) from this game.
Though I do believe the good people have done so for the most part.
Evil does consume itself. Good things and people are a generative force always creating abundance and peace.
Take your stand. And make sure it's the right one.
If I recall,that's what was said about Iraq.All the talk back then of the 30,000 body bags the military ordered,the great tank brigades,on and on.
Apples and middle eastern oranges
Iran is #12 in firepower, Iraq is down in the thirties
http://www.globalfirepower.com/
Russia has a large interest to protect
http://rbth.ru/articles/2010/03/24/240310_iran.html
so does China
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2011/1109/Iran-s-nuclear-program-Will-oil-ties-prevent-China-from-backing-tough-Iran-sanctions
You don't get it, YOU don't fight anyone except an existential threat to the nation, thus ALL ARE SO!
They pimp you out on either side, either you beat a nothing (the libs hate that) or you put down the greatest threat ever to humankind(the cons jizz to this one over and over).
The greatest bullshit con and it works everyime.
I was sort of imagining service members using their excessive pay to buy bricks of chilled gold from the Halliburton vending machines. Why chilled gold? Just because...that's how we roll in this Empire, baby.
It's hot in these places. Why *not* take a nap in the heat of the day on some chilled gold bricks?
just because we need starbucks, pizza hut, mcdonalds, dunkin donuts etc. to go to war doesn't make us weak...you are a racist homophobe...and you're jealous all you people get are dosas in the field...
Zinggggggggggggggg....... ;-)
ori
Understanding something of the history of the US military, I wonder if it's the Straights or the Homoz that won't be tolerated ?
USS Liberty?
After this kentetic action it will be renamed USS Shalom in honor of Benny.
Truth is all that needs to be done is fill the Straits in with sand. A dozen or so D9's and a slurry pump should get it done in about a week. Then as holes are blasted in it just slurry some more sand into the shallows.
It will slow the vessels down then they can magnetically mined. It should be an interesting show.
There is nothing of real value in the area for my team. Not like in Iraq. We went in before the advancing troops and looted the fuck out of their national treasures. ;) Ooh-rah!
http://opovet.blogspot.com/2008/01/dire-straits-of-hormel.html
Wednesday, January 09, 2008The Dire Straits of Hormel
For Immediate Release
In a surprising move today, Iranians took action to tighten up the Straits of Hormel. It is a little-known fact that over 80% of the world's supply of chili comes through the straits.
If the Iranians are successful, it will have grave implications on the United States, and indeed, all of the West. For example, the long-awaited remake of Blazing Saddles will be shelved, and even Terrance and Philip, the Canadian duo will be forced to hold it in.
But it's even more serious than that. If the straits are indeed closed, President Bush, himself a fart joke connoisseur, will have to put a cork in it.
"And that is unacceptable," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "I mean, I'm not the kinda guy who'd start World War III, exactly, but this is cutting it too close."
Unless the Iranians take steps to relax the sphincter of the Straits of Hormel, Bush stated, they can expect the United States to take direct, pointed and insertive action.
"We won't turn the other cheek," the president said. "They -- and we -- need to cut it."
Ya don't fuck with the US navy, i hope this is clear.
Seems like the somali pirates havent got the memo yet.
Let the sparks fly
http://youtu.be/MrdVqgt0Dwk
Unless you've got a strap-on dildo...
No seriously, I agree, the US navy would take some lickin'
Unless you've got a strap-on dildo...
No seriously, I agree, the US navy would take some lickin'
More sabre-rattling from the Z.O.G. and its hired killers. When Isramerica attacks Iran (not "if"), the straits will be mined and closed. Oil then goes to $300/barrel, Japan and China dump dollars and - look around - you can kiss all this goodbye. The only question is, why are our domestic Zionist warmongers and the Israeli's so careless about finishing off the economy of an America that has kept Israel on the map for the last 50 years? Answer: not only does Israel have beaucoup de nukes...there ain't no gold in Ft. Knox. It's been hijacked (think: Greenspan, Bernanke). It's in Israel. And when the dollar goes, gold goes to infinity.
Here's black swan that's not so unlikely. Everybody remember around last spring when a Chinese sub "accidentally" surfaced inside a US carrier group COMPLETELY UNDETECTED? Might China sell a few of those subs to Iran, perhaps in exchange for a slightly used drone?
It may indeed be easy for Iran to close the strait, or sink a few navy ships. Those generals better not be as over confident as they sound.
"Here's black swan that's not so unlikely. Everybody remember around last spring when a Chinese sub "accidentally" surfaced inside a US carrier group COMPLETELY UNDETECTED?"
Link please
Link please...you forget to add 'or STFU' as is customary
But here's a link anyway:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/14/world/main2179694.shtml
(AP) A Chinese submarine came close to the USS Kitty Hawk carrier group in the Pacific Ocean last month, a top U.S. naval commander confirmed Tuesday, adding the encounter could have triggered an "unforeseen" incident.
A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, however, said she had not heard of such an incident.
The aircraft carrier and its supporting ships were conducting exercises in an unidentified location when the encounter occurred, Adm. William Fallon, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, told reporters.
The carrier group was not engaged in anti-submarine exercises, but if it had, "and if this Chinese sub came in the middle of this, then it could have escalated into something that could have been very unforeseen," he said.
Fallon, who is in Kuala Lumpur for a 23-nation Chief of Defense Forces meeting, did not give any other details. He was commenting on a report on The Washington Times' Web site that said a Chinese submarine "stalked" the Kitty Hawk and surfaced within torpedo firing range.
The newspaper said the carrier group was operating close to Okinawa at the time of the incident.
A similar IMO event, that no one talks about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AMdHBgHtNE
Does this look like a contrail?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cH-Cz9u2ts&feature=related
I'm shocked. I thought it would be tolerated...
Tolerated!?!?!? Obama would probably apologize for it!
Apologise...yea... while he crushes your liberty. Damn that weak-ass nigger, right?
I4 racist so far on Zero Hedge. Good work assholes. Hope you got new sheets for Christmas......
You're assuming no proud black people read ZH and agree with his statement. Fucking racist.
Have yea burnt a cross on somebody's lawn, you jackass cock sucker.
Have yea burnt a cross on somebody's lawn, you jackass cock sucker.
..sigh...
Can't fix ignorance.
CPL lamented:
Some minds should be cultivated, others plowed under.
Up to twenty now (20). Perhaps this site should be re-named to zero- brain-racist-pig-hedge-klux-klan. The motto we'll be, "on a long enough time line, you'll be hang'in from a tree cause your black.
Cue the Pearl Harbor-ish false flag.
They don't need an attack it is just as easy to lie because the propaganda machine will back them. They can say Iran did this, and we fired upon them, and that was that.
Here is a scene from a movie that I think it will resemble:
http://youtu.be/Ef9qqk0CvFc?t=38s
You're 10+ years late on that call. The neo cons wrote about their "Pearl Harbor moment" in the late 90's... and just like clockwork, 9/11.
They don't need a false flag anymore. NDAA remember.
Any where, any time, any place at the discretion of the powers that be.
The peace prize warrior continues his great works!
And the next set of puppet clowns waits in the cornfields.
And the saber rattling grows louder.
Those aren't sabers, they got their Flintstone multi-vitamins and the Viagra mixed up again.
Is it just me or are all these douche-nozzles, US and Iranian, really aching to start another war so bad they have to strut around crowing at the top of the lungs to every news outlet on the planet? Why can't we just stick a couple ambassadors, a couple politicians, or a few generals in a ring, charge admission, and let them beat themselves to death one at a time. Betcha it makes a few bucks on PPV and we have one less ass-hat to worry about...useless f'ers.
Be careful what you wish for. Most recent Iowa debate. Americans eat this stuff up. But its not the generals or even .gov workers who are in charge.
... Followed by a radical old man saying something about tax payer funds paying the salaries of people that are epic fail. And something about being the only person on stage that was drafted during the cold war..... who gets more campaign contributions from military and .gov workers than all other candidates combined.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-lD3YqP9Sw
Text transcript (for history teacher purposes) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/2012-presidential-debates/republican-primary-debate-december-15-2011/
Game On Bitchez
WAR Bitchez!
From the Nobel Peaze Prize Prezident!
oooh! THIS is why the US wardollar is all of a sudden "stronger" than the EUR...
achmachat
"THIS is why the US wardollar is all of a sudden "stronger" than the EUR..."
Automatic Earth has been calling a fight from the Euro to USD for quite a long time.
The Iranians sure love to use words. Their representatives are probably way more bright than anyone in congress except a few including Ron Paul.
Chess was invented in Persia and poetry is a national pastime.
The use of words is part of strategy.
Underestimating the Iranians is an age-old form of stupidity.
Yeah but do they have Jerry Springer & Maury Povich?
+1
Boo-ya!
#winning
Unfortunately the Iranian equivalents were detained and have not been heard from since.
I didn't say the current regime was friendly, or nice.
Indeed jim, right up there alongside under-estimating the Afghans.
ori
Look how well that part of the world has eaten every empire that's marched into it thinking it was the golden ticket to riches.
Something about that rocky region. Haunting, beautiful and cursed at the same time.
It comes down to this: Are you ready and willing to KILL them ALL?
If not, the best move is not to play.
that was then, this is now, they still stone their women for being raped, and eat right, wipe left................
that was then, this is now, they still stone their women for being raped, and eat right, wipe left................
Jewish gender segregation campaign turns violent
Residents of Beit Shemesh, a town of some 80,000 people 30 kilometres (18 miles) west of Jerusalem, showered police and television crews with eggs and also set fire to refuse bins.
The majority of the town's residents are religious Jews, among them a large and growing ultra-Orthodox community.
Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said one policeman was slightly hurt by a thrown stone.
Several placards urging segregation between men and women that had been removed by police were later put back by protesters.
Earlier, Rosenfeld said a man from Beit Shemesh had been arrested over an assault Sunday on a TV crew filming a sign instructing women to cross the street to avoid walking past a synagogue.
Other signs posted in an ultra-Orthodox neighbourhood instructed women to dress "modestly" in long sleeves and calf-length skirts.
The Haaretz newspaper said the cameraman from commercial station Channel Two was thrown to the ground and his sound recordist grabbed by the throat in the attack by ultra-Orthodox men.
Other journalists were also attacked and a police car stoned.
http://news.yahoo.com/jewish-gender-segregation-campaign-turns-violent-1...
American Girl Target of Extremist Jews in Israelhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U2M6vsMy48
Right, and they he the highest rate of heroin addiction in the world. Be afraid of the dopeheads...be very afraid.
Yeah and to that we are going to "bring" order and a rule of Western "law"?
Is that it?
There are dead people brighter than the people in congress! There are door knobs that are brighter than the people in congress.
The US now owns the Strait of Hormutz or what? Seriously who the fuck do the US think they are?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdJRDpLHbw
International water dumb fuck. Nobody OWNS the Straights. That said, what gives Iran the right to threaten to close it?
#OSOH (Occupy Straits of Hormuz)
Actually it's been under Persian (Iran) management for around 1100 years until the British redrew lines on maps after WW2.
Not to nitpick or anything.
Oh, OK.
Whos your daddy?
Obama day 1: Welcome home troops!
[polls have small spike up]
Obama day 2: Uhh.. don't unpack your bags yet - We have more democracy and flag waving in the Middle East to accomplish!
[polls go up again]
Real mission accomplished...
snarc: Oh boy. I guess I have stop supporting Ron Paul and switch to a strong leader that wants a tax code such that only 30% of the population has to get their hands bloody either fighting or paying for F-35s so we can get cheap oil to mix with good ole' Iowa ethanol!
Just 'cause we can't run a financial system or govern ourselves don't mean we cain't fight. Yall had best not fool with us cause we are mad as Hell and looking for some's ass to kick. If DOJ and SEC won't give us no satisfaction the USN will.
and enjoy paying the bill for securing our oil!
i love it when us goes to war.
Yeah, that's just what Hitler said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Given the new laws in effect in the USA Jim I think Godwin's law has ceased to apply to discourse on our politics.
Where mentioning Hitler before was an act of bombastic hyperbole, today it is a valid and salient point in most regards.
like in "Hitler attacked Russia for oil"?
Hitler attacked Africa for fossil fuels, for sure...
Like when Hitler ate the last doughnut and blamed it on someone else!
WTF's going on? I see someone has quoted Godwins law.
LOL, thats about it! 'Hey Iran, we comin to kill you and take you over, and resistance will not be tolerated'!
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9007278962
Iranian Navy Thwarts Pirate Attack on Saudi Oil Tanker in Int'l Waters
TEHRAN (FNA)- An attempted hijack of a Saudi oil tanker by unknown pirate boats was foiled after an Iranian fleet of warships present in the region rushed to the scene.
"After the regional center of Chabahar coast guard watch announced last night that a Saudi oil tanker had asked for help due to the suspicious approach of several unknown boats, Jamaran destroyer was dispatched to the area swiftly," Lieutenant Commander of the Iranian Navy Rear Admiral Seyed Mahmoud Moussavi told reporters on Monday.
"After the presence of the destroyer (on the scene), the unknown boats fled the area and the entire region came under the control (of the Iranian Navy forces)," he added.
Moussavi did not mention the specific coordinates or region of the international waters that the Saudi oil tanker was saved by the Iranian destroyer, but the development has most likely taken place in the Sea of Oman where Iran is presently staging massive wargames.
Iran's naval forces have deployed in the international waters of the Sea of Oman and the Indian Ocean after they started massive wargames in the international waters on Saturday.
The naval maneuvers dubbed Velayat 90 are due to cover an area stretching from the East of the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Aden for 10 days.
Jamaran was part of Iran's 16th fleet of warships which returned home last week after accomplishing a 70-day mission in the Gulf of Aden and the high seas where the Iranian warships defended the country's cargo ships and oil tankers against attacks by Somali pirates.
In its 9,700-mile voyages, the Iranian flotilla provided safe passage for and monitored the missions and moves made by 1,380 military and non-military vessels and aerial vehicles.
The Iranian Navy has been conducting anti-piracy patrols in the Gulf of Aden since November 2008, when Somali raiders hijacked the Iranian-chartered cargo ship, MV Delight, off the coast of Yemen.
According to UN Security Council resolutions, different countries can send their warships to the Gulf of Aden and coastal waters of Somalia against the pirates and even with prior notice to Somali government enter the territorial waters of that country in pursuit of Somali sea pirates.
The Gulf of Aden - which links the Indian Ocean with the Suez Canal and the Mediterranean Sea - is an important energy corridor, particularly because Persian Gulf oil is shipped to the West through the Suez Canal.
Iran! Save us!
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=4964380
Let's get it on bitchez!
The boats are in good shape. Only bid on them is $150. For retail salvage you could get $500
Odds are the boats on "suspicious approach" *were* the iranian navy vessels.
the oil ticks can always talk a big game, but they never seem to fare so well in a stand up fight. at least not since 1947. :)
No shit. The 5th fleet and Stennis strike group are vastly superior to Iran's 'navy'.
Like it or not, America is still way way too powerful in terms of military to fuck with.
Now, what time is the market going to be ripped higher?
Maybe the Iranians want to field test their new anti-ship missiles. How many service members are you gambling today?
From 400 miles lobbing tomahawks? None. Or, if you prefer, some stealth bombers dropping guided bombs.
I'm not blood thirsty. But, you guys need to get a grip on reality. Iran's navy and 'air force' would be wiped out quickly. They won't even let the plane take off. It's not like it hasn't been proven over and over.
This "blood in the streets" saber rattling is the same old middle eastern bullshit.
No one is bloodthirsty. But oh my, what a lot of blood!
They won't engage in a conventional head-to-head naval battle. I don't think they are that stupid.
Of course not, as they surely get Wiki in Iran:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002
Oh wait, you meant the US?
pods
There is an old Buggs Bunny type cartoon where there is a little dog giving other dogs a lot of shit, as if he is the toughest dog on the block. The other dogs do not attack. Why? Because there is a really big dog the other dogs are afraid of in the background who sees the little dog as his buddy.
Russia, China, are watching. Iran is dancing. US can watch, but I am not sure about doing much else, unless, with our superior fire power, we are ready to go to war with the globe.
If...*IF* Iran engages, we will bitch slap them.
It's not going to happen anyway. It's just some vanilla rhetoric from Iran. The infidels and all that shit.
"unless, with our superior fire power, we are ready to go to war with the globe."
That is what worries me.
like every empire, we have and will continue over reaching and exhausting our ability to maintain our financial, food, military, domestic and international political systems.
like every other nation suffering any empire's deteriorating control and chaos, there comes a breaking point where they start to fight back
You may be correct but only up until Iran tries to close the Straits of Hormuz or attacks the U.S. Then it's "game on" and China and Russia will do nothing to stop it.
So do you work at the Kremlin and moonlight as a Chinese take-out delivery driver or what?