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USS Stennis Supposedly Leaves Straits Of Hormuz, Replaced By USS Lincoln With USS Vinson Staying Put, But Not Just Yet
For those following the latest naval developments in the general Arabian Sea area and the Straits of Hormuz in particular, the latest news is that the duo of Aircraft carriers on location, as was reported last week, the USS Stennis and USS Vinson, has became a trio, with the arrival of the USS Lincoln, however, if only briefly. According to the US Navy's website, CVN 74 Stennis has left the 5th Fleet, and is now back in the 7th fleet, on its way home. Yet this is somewhat contradictory with the following picture posted on the facebook profile of one CVN 72 Abraham Lincoln (yes, faceook), which quite vividly shows CVN 74 - the same Stennis - and CVN 72, Lincoln, side by side, at least as of this morning. As such, absent further photographic evidence to the contrary, it may be the case that while the Stennis is planned to be on its way back, but in reality is still in the vicinity. Which begs the question: why three aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea, and for how long?
From Lincoln's facebook profile: two aircraft carriers... caringly side by side.
And positioning updates from the Navy, first on the Stennis:
Stennis Strike Group Enters 7th Fleet Area of Operations
USS JOHN C. STENNIS, At Sea (NNS) -- John C. Stennis Strike Group (JCSSG) entered the U.S. 7th Fleet area of operations(AOO) Jan. 19 after nearly three months supporting Operations Enduring Freedom (OEF) and New Dawn (OND), as well as maritime security operations and anti-piracy efforts in the U.S. 5th Fleet AOO.
While operating in the seas surrounding the Arabian Peninsula, JCSSG played a pivotal role in the drawdown of U.S. forces in Iraq and provided aviation support to coalition ground troops in Afghanistan.
After conducting weeks of command and control support operations to coalition forces in OND, an E-2C Hawkeye from the "Golden Hawks" of Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 112 embarked aboard Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) flew the last Navy aviation mission over Iraq Dec. 18.
"Flying the last Navy air mission in Iraq was a historic achievement for all of us," said Capt. Dale Horan, commander of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 9 embarked aboard Stennis, the flag ship of the strike group.
"Everyone in this strike group played a part in making that happen and it's a part of history we will always share," Horan said.
In January, after transitioning from OND to supporting operations in Afghanistan, JCSSG forces thwarted an attempted pirate attack on a Bahamian-flagged cargo vessel, then freed a group of Iranian mariners held captive by the same crew of suspected pirates.
"This was a well-executed display of the mutli-mission capability of the carrier strike group and a testament to the professionalism of our Sailors," said Stennis' Command Master Chief Stanley Jewett.
In the 7th Fleet AOO, the strike group plans to conduct several readiness exercises with partner countries in the region as well as visits to Singapore and the Philippines before preparing to head back to the United States.
"The manner in which we've conducted ourselves and executed our mission is indicative of the character of our Sailors and the spirit of our country," said JCSSG commander, Rear Adm. Craig Faller. "While we have much to accomplish before returning home, and I'm confident that we will finish our deployment with the same level of professionalism and personal conduct we've displayed throughout."
The JCSSG consists of Stennis, the guided-missile cruiser USS Mobile Bay (CG 53), aircraft from CVW 9, and guided missile destroyers USS Pinckney (DDG 91), USS Kidd (DDG 100), USS Dewey (DDG 105), and USS Wayne E. Meyer (DDG 108) from Destroyer Squadron 21.
And next, the Lincoln:
Abraham Lincoln Arrives in U.S. 5th Fleet
By Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Zachary Welch, Carrier Strike Group 9 Public Affairs
USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, At Sea (NNS) -- The Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group (CSG) arrived for a routine deployment in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of operations (AOO), Jan. 19.
Abraham Lincoln conducted work-ups for months to train, man and equip the CSG prior to it deploying to the U.S. 5th Fleet AOO, to support maritime security operations, counter-piracy operations, theater security cooperation efforts, and conduct air missions over Afghanistan for Operation Enduring Freedom.
"Our strike group has trained countless hours to ensure our Sailors are ready to conduct vital operations," said Rear Adm. Mike Shoemaker, commander, CSG 9. "We're looking forward to working closely with our coalition and regional partners to keep the sea lanes safe and secure for the free flow of maritime commerce that is so important for the continued prosperity of nations in this region and around the world."
Abraham Lincoln CSG is comprised of Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 2, guided-missile cruiser USS Cape St. George (CG 71) and embarked Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 9, which includes the guided-missile destroyers USS Momsen (DDG 92) and USS Sterett (DDG 104).
"From our air wing to the destroyer squadron and other surface combatant ships, we have a fantastic team," said Capt. John D. Alexander, Lincoln's commanding officer. "We provide a flexible, adaptable and persistent force that will support the regional commander by providing the greatest assets the Navy has to offer."
The arrival of Lincoln brings the number of aircraft carriers to two within the U.S. 5th Fleet AOO. Carl Vinson arrived in theater, Jan. 9. A second aircraft carrier in the U.S. Central Command area of responsibility (AOR) ensures the U.S. military has the naval and air capabilities to support operational requirements while adequately meeting other security commitments in the region. The aircraft carriers will simultaneously conduct operations in different areas of the AOR, to adequately provide support operations requirements and other security commitments in the region.
Abraham Lincoln departed its homeport of Everett, Wash., Dec. 7, for a deployment to the U.S. 5th and 7th Fleet AOOs. The ship departed Laem Chabang, Thailand, Jan. 10, following a four-day port visit prior to transiting to U.S. 5th Fleet. Following deployment, Lincoln will change homeports from Everett, Wash., to Norfolk, Va., for a periodic refueling complex overhaul.
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They. Heh, and me without my tinfoil hat!
How can we be sure that photo wasn't taken in Lake Michigan? Big lakes can look a lot like oceans.
Carriers are to big for the St. Lawrence Seaway.
Dude, you just totally crushed his fantasy! How mean!
LOL!
Fighting Spam with Spam.
Maybe they trailered it. Duh.
I think this calls for a little Sabbath:
http://youtu.be/gbxfe7DMxVo
Excellent selection!
Right on ! And dont fuck with the boys from Manchester !
The one you have to be concerned of it's whereabout's is HMS Daring, Isreal is going to do their own premptive strike and than all hell is going to break loose, undertones of thermo nuclear fall out has been weighed and calculated as an accetable risk by thses psychopaths in the Pentagon.
We have installed 9,000 + troop in Isreal and just waiting for the the SHTF, it's inevitable folk's, wish it wasn't, but Iran told us to stick our Petro Dollar up our ass 3 weeks ago.
Turkey has tested their countermeasures to make sure they come off line when the Sortese starts. check.
Diego Garcia has shipped 50% of all the bunker busters to England, France, and Israel. check. (originated from CA San Deigo port)
Saudi Arabia says they can fill the void pegged at 100 USD a barell if the Strait is closed, (which it is). Iran had a shit fit.
Were towing a decomissioned ship into the area to be "False Flagged" and off we go, WWIII kids.
Hope the light of God not shine down on humanity.
God help us.
There is no "real" in "Israel".
isntreal
9000 U.S. troops? Hells Bells. Not since Alexander the Great has such a threat presented itself to Persia. What's your timeline on this Israeli pre-emptive strike? And will you come back on ZH crying "I was wrong" when it doesn't happen?
Nope, it's all going to happen regaurdless, I'm just sayin what's going to happen.
Yeah, crude just jumped $0.40 cents. Gee. I wonder why?
I see it down $0.44 now. Crisis over, er, never was.
WWIII! LOL!
WWIII! SOL!
WWIII, not gonna happen, not now. If people let them have nukes, then I'll agree. Those 12th Imam Mahdi Persian's is batshit fucking nuts!
Navy Times? That Facebook picture could be weeks old. I wonder how one posts the photo from that view when the USN is monitoring their posts.
Safe to assume JCS is in the Indian Ocean on its way to the Malacca Straight.
Or Sunda.
While worth raising an eyebrow over, that's really all...
Speaking as a former member of the Tailhook association, I can tell you that, to me, this appears to be SOP. The new CBG arrives on station, and begins operations; with some overlap provided be the previous group on station before the relieved asset departs.
Perhaps this may be some intentional "gunboat diplomacy" but, personally, I doubt it.
Fair winds to all.
Merchant business in Strait looks normal today.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?level0=100
And dont forget, each of those carriers has its compliment of support craft, including subs and missle frigates.
why three aircraft carriers in the Arabian Sea, and for how long?
i don't know, either!
but if someone told me they were probably just awaiting orders, i might figure he could be right!
Can't wait to read the latest scuttlebutt from the Sea Sparrows twitter accounts.
Too close to elections. Just sabre rattling. Come 2013, that is a different story as the economy plunges. We'll need a really big, scary war..
So we do not have to fight them here, you know, the bad guys.
Such a nice display of force, they do look good together.
gotta love the smell of jet fuel bitchez...
Stupidest thing to do, tactically and strategically, putting 2 aircraft carriers close together like that. Has our glorious Commander in Chief actually read the Art of War? I highly doubt it. Remember Midway?
So I've looked. The current costs of operating a Carrier Group is not readily available by the Navy or the GAO. They do state that the cost of operating a carrier group was $1.6Billion in 1998. So taking average CPI/GDP appreciation that 1.6Billion conservatively represents $2.35Billion today, which is $6.43Million per day. Now we've got 3 carriers surrounding Iran at a cost of $19.29Million per day. Iran's entire GDP is $331Billion/year. So all we've got to do is get Iran to pay $20Million/day or $7.3Billion/year which is only 2.2% of their GDP and they can keep getting this wonderful US enhanced protection while the US breaks even! If IRAN would just cough up the 2.2%... well even Israel wouldn't fuck with them.
Oh wait... we provide free security for Israel too... $3.2Billion in 2010. Their GDP is $221Billion/year and $3.2Billion is only 1.4% of their GDP. So maybe we could just get Iran to pay Israel the $3.2Billion, if Israel provides the enhanced protection. Hell then Saudi Arabia wouldn't even fuck w/ Iran. And the $3.2Billion is only 0.96% of Iran's GDP and a hell of a lot cheaper than paying the $7.3Billion US price-tag.
So the US continues to conjure make-believe money and provide Free Security World-wide! Hell, why doesn't Blackwater/XE/Academia provide Free Security??? It's the fuckin' American Way!
Here’s a thought. We've got 10 Nimitz Class Carriers still operating... The last one we built in 2009 cost $6.2Billion If we could sell a couple of the older ones for half that (firesale prices), we could operate 3 of the newer ones for a year and then blow up the ones we sold on the other country's dime!
Ron Paul is trying to tell us the truth... Neither Iran nor Israel is gonna pay the US shit, and we can't afford to provide free security for IRAN & ISRAEL. Oh wait… ‘The Bernank’ can afford it. He’s got all that make-believe money... and you and I are paying the interest.
It all ends when the world finally says, "What the fuck am I doing business with the US and their make-believe money." You think Rome fell because they were invaded by the Huns? The Huns were their employees. Rome fell because it couldn't pay it's fucking bills!
The current costs of operating a Carrier Group is not readily available by the Navy or the GAO.
And the cost of NOT operating them?
I was mocked for pointing this out on saturday, and directed to www.aircraftcarrier.com (which I knew was fucking stupid as shit)for information concerning uss lincolns mission and destination.
Those three carriers are not the only ones, there is at least one NATO carrier in the Med (along with a Russian just to make it interesting) and the French flagship carrier de Gaulle has also just arrived in the Arabian Sea. How many weeks has it been now since Stratfor our only real source of fleet locations went down? By now every ship in the world could be there or getting within strike distance and we would not know but what we are fed on the net. I get the feeling there are Farsi speaking guys with binoculars watching Yokosuka harbor, Bremerton, San Diego, and Newport News every day now. But it is funny how many are out to sea on "exercises" or sea trials, or in route to dry dock/maintenance, or changing homeports, just about the only thing tied up right now is decommissioned. Now if those start to move look out Iran.
the french carrier is safely at home in Toulon, France. Dont believe all you read on debka. And the Stennis IS sailing back to the US.
I have never used DEBKA, though there is a friend that sends me DEBKA briefs which I do not open, they look buggy to me. I read that on Reuters, or was it al Jazeera? I will see if I can find the story, it was a few days ago. Odd, I can find absolutely nothing about it right now and I have to go to dinner. But check back tomorrow and I will see if I can find it, true or not I would like to know but it is hard to get RELIABLE information on the whereabouts of naval forces these days and that alone scares me more than the idea of them massing someplace.
Speaking softly, carrying very big stick !
FWIW Dept:
"Modern World Timeline [1900-2008? / decades] Middle East [ME] Players"
Players: Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran[Persia], Iraq, Syria /Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Cyprus, Crete, Greece, Turkey, UAE, Greece[?], Yemen, and Israel
1902- the 1st aswan dam is built in egypt. ibn.saud captures riyadh, beginning the creation of saudi arabia ; 1905- in crete the greeks revolt against turkish rule; 1907- britain and russia partition iran; 1908- crete unifies with greece/ the young turk revolution takes place in turkey. a successful counter-revolution takes place in persia [iran] is supported by russia; 1909- the sultan of turkey is overthrown and replaced by his brother, muhammad v. bakelite is manufactured commercially/ tel-avie is founded; 1911- the agadir crises , when the german gunship panther enters the port of agadir in morocco, heightens tensions between germany and britain. italy goes to war with turkey after occupying tripoli; 1912- the first balkan war:bulgaria, greece, montenegro, and serbia fight turkey. albania declares independence from turkey. a french protectorate is established in morocco; 1913- the young turks stage a coup in turkey. the balkan states win the first balkan war; the second balkan war sets serbia, greece, romania, and turkey against bulgaria; 1917- britain takes baghdad from turkey; t.e.lawrence takes control of the arab revolt against turkey; britain takes jerusalem; 1918- emir faisal proclaims the syrian state and becomes king in 1920; 1920- the first meeting of the league of nations takes place. palestine is established as jewish state under british supervision; 1921- greece attacks turkey but is defeated. a turkish nat'l gov't is established in ankara; abd-el-krim leads the berbers and arabs against europeans in n. africa; 1922- the sultan of turkey is deposed by mustafa kemel who is elected president the following year. egypt becomes independent of britain under king fuad; 1923- turkey is declared a republic under president mustafa kemal; ankara replaces istanbul as capital. transjordan gains independence under the leadership of amir abdullah; 1924- greece and albania become republics. the shah of persia[iran] is deposed; he is replaced by reza shah; 1925- the modernization of turkey by president kemal attaturk; islam is abolished as the states religion; the wearing of the fez is banned. abd-el-krim's arab uprising in morocco is squashed by the french and spanish. ibn saud creates saudi arabia; 1930- the treaty of ankara is signed between greece and turkey; 1933- britain recognizes iraqi independence ; king ghazi takes the throne; 1934- the british oil pipline from kirkuk[iraq] to tripoli [syria] is opened. in turkey women get to vote; 1935- the monarchy is restored in greece. persia changes its name to iran; 1936- prince faisal takes power in egypt. the fench grant syria home rule. palestinians begin the great revolt against zionist settlement; 1940- italy invades greece; syria becomes part of vichy france. italy bombs palestine; 1941- germany troops march into athens; italy and germany invade egypt; british and soviet forces take teheran in iran; reza shah of iran is deposed; 1942- rommel launches an offensive in egypt; the germans retreat into libya; 1943- the allies take tripoli, the last axis stronghold in n. africa; the allies take tunis; a military junta, under arturo rawson, takes power in argintina; 1944- lebanon gains independence. the jewish organization irgun, under menachem begin, proclaims a revolt against the british rule in palestine; 1945- the U.N. charter is signed. the arab league is founded to fight the creation of the jewish state. the jewish brigade raises the jewish flag; 1946- the kingdom of jordan gains independence. the baath party is established in iraq; jaun peron is elected president of argintina; 1947- palestine is partitioned into arab and jewish states; arabs reject the partition; 1949- the n. atlantic treaty organization [nato] is formed by western nations. david ben-gurion becomes PM of the new state of israel; war between the arab league and israel ends in a truce; jerusalem is partitioned; 1950- britain and egypt argue over sudan and the suez canal; 1951- egypt withdraws from the agreement on suez; british troops occupy the canal zone . king abdullah of jordan is assasinated. libya gains independence from italy; 1952- turkey and greece join nato; 1953- a military coup ends the monarchy in egypt; a republic is created. in iran , the c.i.a. helps in the restoration of the shah to power; 1954- trouble flares up in cyprus and greece over their union. war for independence from france begins in algeria. *colonel gamil abdul nassar* is elected egyptian president; 1955- the greek cypriot terrorist organization . EOKA, begins activities in cyprus. israel raids the borders of egypt and syria. the first sudanese civil war begins; 1956------cont.
thankyou tyler
There may not be another "cont" at the end of this war if it happens.
They're probably busy trying to convince Russia we will give them half the country if they just stay out of the way.
I'm def getting tired of this bullshit. At this point im like either shit or get off the pot i'm in no mood for another 30 years of trying to survive an economic decline.
as i cont. the timeline,... there are no new strategies that are, or have been any different than the 1900 - 2011 [last century ?] time-span, other than the fact that three [3] world superpowers [only] U.S.A., Russia, and China exist today in all reality [the potential to destroy the entire planet]
Carriers are sitting ducks for the new supersonic Chinese missiles. The Chinese are waiting for a moment to force the US to back down. China said it would back Iran up. It would be a matter of Chinese pride to see the US back down.
I can't believe that photo is genuine. There is no way they would place two carriers that close to each other; first, they are too vunerable to attack, secondly, being that close would cause serious problems for the sonor operators {the "wash" from each others propellers would make accurate reading of sonor impossible.} BTW, it would take a minimum of three carrier battle groups to conduct warfare in the area. The give away will be what is going on at Diego Garcia. Is that base being reinforced? If so, war is days away.
The US Navy has very specific rules regarding at sea refueling and which ships may get to within so far from any other ship. The Ocean determines how close we can do this safely. That information is classified. Although you can generally make a guess.
I think the photo is real, The deck coating is worn down from duty and the other carrier has a pretty fresh coating on her deck. So it's ready.
Don't know about the third one.
The picture is of what is known as a turnover. It's just like a change of command where one CO relieves the other, except this is done with Battle Groups. The staffs hold a meeting on one of the ships and at the end of the meeting messages are sent to the higher ups indicating the change of responsibility. There are five jets in the picture sitting in alert status.
FWIW Dept:
cont. "Modern History Timeline"
1956- britain withdraws its troops from the suez canal zone; *president nassar* nationaizes the canal; israel invades egypt; britain and france reoccupy the canal zone; the U.N. sends in forces to police a ceasefire. france recognizes the independence of morocco and tunisia; 1957- the suez canal is reopened; 1958- egypt and syria form the united arab republic [uar]; joined by yemen, it becomes the united arab states. abdul kassem leads a military revolt in iraq; king faisal II is assassinated and a republic is declared; 1959- the militant arab organization al-fatah is founded in kuwait by yassar arafat; 1960- in turkey, a military coup restores secularism. OPEC [organization of petro exporting countries] is founded; 1961- syria withdraws from the united arab repubublic; 1962- algeria gains independence from france. yemen splits in two after a coup; the north is a monarchy, the south a republic; 1964- greeks and turks fight in cyprus; U.N. troops are sent in to maintain peace. the palestine liberation organization[plo] is formed to unite palestinian refugees; 1966- temples and statues of abu simbel in egypt are moved to protect them from the rising waters of the aswan high dam [nassar*]; 1967- colonel george papadopoulos leads a successful military coup in greece. in the six day war between arabs and israelis, israel occupies the sinai desert, jerusalem and the west bank of the jordan; the U.N. brokers a ceasefire; the suez canal is closed until 1975; 1969- golda meir is elected israel's fourth PM. muammar al-quadaffi seizes power in libya; 1970- civil war breaks out in jordan. anwar sadat becomes president of egypt; 1972- at the munich olympics, 11 israel athletes are killed by the arab black september organization[abso]. the first sudanese civil war ends and s. sudan is granted autonomy; 1973- **arab oil producing countries restrict oil supplies, leading to a world economic crises**. the yom kippur war, a coalition of arab states, led by egypt and syria, attacks israel; a ceasefire is imposed after five weeks; 1974- the greek military junta resigns; elections are held. the turks occupy nicosia on cyprus; the island is partitioned into greek and turkish sections. syria and israel agree to a ceasefire in golan heights; 1975- civil war breaks out in lebanon between muslims and christians; 1976- between 1976 and 1984' thousands disappear in argentina's 'dirty war'; 1978- the U.N. hosts the camp david summit between egypt and israel; 1979- the shah of iran goes into exile after riots and political pressure; the exiled religious leader, ayatollah khomeni returns and adopts an islamic constitution for iran. the ten-year iran-iraq war begins. a peace treaty is signed in washington between israel and egypt. sadam hussein becomes president of iraq and wins U.S. support; 1981- egyptian president sadat is assassinated. israel annexes the golan heights; 1982- the falklands war; argentina occupies the falkland islands; a british task force recaptures them; lebanon to drive out the plo; lebanese christian militia kills hundreds of palestinians in the sabra and chatila refugee camps in w. beirut. hezbollah, a political and military organization, is founded in lebanon; 1983- more than 200 marines die when a bomb is detonated at the u.s. embassy in beirut; america withdraws from lebanon. israel signs an agreement to withdraw from lebanon. more than 1.5 million people die in the second sudanese civil war between muslims and non-muslims; 1986- u.s. warplanes bomb libya in retaliation for libyan terrorist activity. british journalist john mccarthy is kidnapped in beirut; he is released in 1991; 1987- the palestinian intifada uprising against israel begins. terry waite, special envoy of the archbishop of canterbury, is kidnapped in beirut; he is released in 1991; 1990- in the lebanese civil war, syria military forces invade lebanon and oust general michel aoun's gov't. iraq invades kuwait; the U.S. and allies send forces to the gulf region and the gulf war begins; 1991- n. irish writer brian keenan, held hostage for nearly five years in lebanon, is released; 1992- a bodyguard assassinates president muhammad boudiaf of algeria; the country experiences turmoil until 2002; 1993- palestian leader, yassar arafat, and israel PM,rabin, sign a peace agreement in the U.S.; arafat forms the palestine nat'l authority[pna] to govern gaza and jericho; america launches a cruise missile attack on iraq intelligence headquarters in the al-mansur district of baghdad, in response to the attempted assassination of former president g. bush during his visit to kuwait; 1994- itzhak rabin, P.M. of israel, is assassinated; ***Benjamin Netanyahu becomes PM*** and brings the israel-palestinian accord to an end; 1995- saddam hussein continues to hinder searches for weapons of mass destruction; 1996- al-hakam, iraq's main production facility of biological warfare agents, is destroyed under the supervision of the U.N.special commission[unscom]. yassar arafat is voted president in the first palestinian elections. israel launches a major offensive against hezbollah. the u.s. launches operation desert [storm] strike against iraq; 1997- israel hands hebron back to the palestinians, the west bank city it controlled. iraq says it will begin shooting down UNSCOM surveillance; 1999- mohammad VI becomes king of morocco. king hussein of jordan dies; his son abdullah II ascends the throne. ehud barak becomes PM of israel; 2000- after years of killing and terror, the islamic salvation front disbands in algeria. terrorist organization al-qaeda holds a summit. bashar al-assad becomes syria's leaded in a nat'l referendum; 2001- ariel sharon is elected p.m. of israel; violence with palestinians worsens. britain and the u.s. make bombing raids on the iraqi defense network; 2002- the u.s. congress authorizes the president to use u.s. armed forces as deems necessary and appropriate, against iraq. the U.N. security council approves resolution 1441, forcing saddam hussein to disarm or face 'serious consequences'; iraq agrees to terms; 2004- it emerges that pow's in abu-ghraib prison in iraq have been tortured by their u.s. captors. in iraq, sovereignty is transferred by the u.s.-led coalition to an interim gov't. the u.n. security council calls for the removal of all foreign troops from lebanon; 2005- mahmoud abbas becomes president of the palestinian authority following the death of yassar arafat. rafik hariri, the PM of lebanon, is killed by a suicide bomber. syria withdraws the last of its troops from lebanon after 29 years. iraq hols its first free elections in more than 50 years; bombings and protest continue; saddam hussein's trial begins. king fahd of saudi arabia is succeeded by his half-brother abdullah. chad declares war on sudan; 2006- israel p.m. ariel sharon suffers a massive heart attack; ehud olmert takes power. israel invades lebanon; hezbollah declares war against israel. hamas wins a majority in elections to the palestinian legislative council. saddam hussein is executed in baghdad; bombings and protest against occupation continue in iraq; 2007- al-qaeda kills 33 people people with two bombs in the algerian capital, algiers. barzan lbrahim al-tikriti, former iraqi intelligence and half-brother of suddam hussein, and awad hamed al-bandar, former chief judge of the revolutionary court, are executed in iraq. iran's revolutionary guard hold royal navy personnel for 12 days after capturing them in disputed iran-iraq waters; 2008-2011 cont. thanks again tyler for the space
Yeah. Boogeymen and ghosts. Bite me.
http://rt.com/news/us-general-israel-iran-233/
the u.s. is quietly trying to take out syria through covert actions - ain't gonna work,... sure their stock-piles of biological and chemical weapons can be taken out, but - only unless russia were to allow it, and that ain't gonna happen
iran and iraq are shiite now - solid
jordan is the poor fellow that's gonna get squeezed [basically a patsy for israels money regarding their survival]
lebanon, yemen will jump in, along with egypt and palestine [gaza]
lastly, china ain't gonna let all of iran's oil and gas go to the u.s., and the british - no sir're,... they loath the limey's, and quite honestly still like the germans as do the egyptians
ps. ___ if the french, turkish get to close - well a violent sirocco will engulf them all--- why? why is there all this violence from israel [God's chosen people?]? is it simply because iran wants nuclear power as do their jewish neighbors, so as to enjoy the comforts of what the 21st century has to offer
ps2. ___ or,... does israel want jordan and all of palestine [gaza death camps make liege peasants all the more desirable] to feather-bed their growing pains
Wonder what one of them 300 mph surface torpedos would do to one of them?
Supposing it hits? A lot of damage.
Besides releasing the Kraken?
Loose lips... err FaceBook pages sink ships!
It's either a a big breach of opsec or just part of a bigger disinformation plan.
You choose.
Does anyone believe the two ships have to be that close so they can "do meetings" and relieve the other? BULL SHIT. In my day, they flew over to one another on Sea King choppers, then returned. Other times they would just signal each other. One iranian sub could sink them both in the space of less than five minutes the way they are positioned. The carriers stay a good distance from one another, there is no way they would be this close in a potential war zone.
In 1993 he had a vision from God that this would happenThis is a vision from Bob Neumann, where he saw attacks on three aircraft carriers, including the USS Abraham Lincoln and the USS George Washington
Bob Neumann-The Lincoln and The George Washington (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WPA-Prophetic-Accumulations/message/8)
that Iran would hit three aircraft carriers in the gulf with a nuke
Iran is NOT going to blow their load via attacking a Carrier strike-group. I don't believe that's what they're signalling at all.
And it's very unlikely they would annihilate a US carrier and its escorts anyway.
Let alone two or three of them! No chance they will manage to do that.
The US ships have staggering defensive and also retaliatory capabilities.
One thing most people don't realise is that most US anti-aircraft 'SAM' missiles are in fact multi-purpose missiles, by design.
i.e. They have the ability to attack moving vehicles, buildings, ships, and also small fast boats. And one DDG can let fly with about 200 such missiles (or more depending on loadout configuration) in about 3 minutes flat (or faster), and do it with amazing precision.
The USN has about 50 of those DDGs and they are designed to have a high-probability of surviving any sort of intense combined air and surface attack.
US missile Cruisers are just as deadly, if not more so.
And even the carriers can launch scores of extremely high performance short-range multi-purpose self-defence missiles.
These US ships are no push over, and the DDGs combined with USMC carrier-based ASW choppers and shore-based long-range Orion ASW aircraft, they can smash almost any sub-surface attack, just as easily and quickly.
The US navy's real vulnerability is the closed geography of the strait close to Iran's shores, and what happens if they run low on VLS and CIWS launched missiles ... which they will ... which is why you want lot of such ships in the area ... so that you can cycle them back to a naval base for VLS reloading at a dedicated naval facility and missile magazine (and why the US needs bases everywhere, and similarly equipped allies, BTW).
And this is where Iran's precision guided ballistic missiles come into play ... they can destroy dedicated US VLS missile reloading facilities ... thus bring the USN into a quasi-stalemate that forces a 'negotiated-settlement' ... which sounds a lot better than terms of a cease-fire, or US surrender and retreat.
However Iran may close the strait, and that IS what they have been signalling.
And that means closed to Carriers and DDGs as well ... especially to them.
And Iran can probably do that for several weeks, and possibly a few months.
But the US navy is BIG and it packs huge punch and it will just keep coming.
The Iranians would be far better off to make tanker trade and transit virtually impossible for up to several years, rather than to try going toe-to-toe with the USN, for a few days, or weeks.
Iran simply can't compete in an open battle. They can get hits in, they may sink a few US ships, I'm sure they can.
But USN commanders are not stupid and they have many other options to get it done.
The idea of Iran wasting any nukes it has on USN fleet units is silly, it's just kicking sand in the face of a 300lb bully.
They would be much more devious than that with any nukes, and would probably go after targets that really hurt the US/NATO/Israel military and its political command structure and its logistics core.
Decapitation and/or starvation.
Asymmetric effect would be western economic devastation (thanks Barry, you're a real commander dude .. or is that dud?).
Much better outcome for them, than killing a few irrelevant ships.
If you are going down shooting, anyway, you may as well take the other guy down too.
And I'm sure they would give that a red-hot go, if the USN and USAF started to pound on them.
M.A.D.
Sorry, but your sonopsis is flawed. Any closure of the Straights by Iran would be considered an act of war. Hostilities would begin at once. Don't put so much faith in PC-3s against subs. A chinese sub propped up right in the middle of a carrier battle group {between the carrier and it's defensive cruisers} back a couple of years ago. Iran will be the first country the US has fought since WW2 that has modern subs in it's fleet. This will not be a cake walk. The US Navy is a "blue water navy" by design and doctrine. It will be at a disadvantage in a "brown water" action. The USN is not invincible. Consider this:
http://www.examiner.com/city-buzz-in-charlotte/iranian-subs-laying-wait-for-us-aircraft-carriers-the-persian-gulf
And this:
http://rt.com/news/iran-submarines-us-vessel-183/
During a training exercise a Chinese sub popped up in our midst...
Closure of the SOH would be war, you can deny it, you can wish it otherwise, but the entire world is critically dependent upon the oil that flows through the strait and the entire world is not going to submit to blackmail by Iran, these are FACTS that are not going to change in the rest of my lifetime (I am 53). If Hormuz were blocked it would not be for long, and in the event we had to go vaporize the blockage every flashing light, every bell and whistle aboard our ships and satellites would be switched on, not like some training cruise, and anyway how do you know we did NOT see and track that Chinese sub before it popped up? What better way to get the opponent to underestimate your capabilities than to allow them to put one over on you when you know there is no danger from it because it is peacetime?
If you want to know what our capabilities are regarding defensive detection, at least the ones the public is permitted to know about because god knows we have technology FAR in advance of what you and I could discuss or even dream of, look up the Poseidon P-8A sub hunter/killer aircraft coming out of Boeing. Many of the specs are still classified but anyone with a military background can tell you that this plane based on a 737 platform can see what is in the ocean as if the sea were not even there. Enemy subs look like fat slow moving blimps to them. This jet is deployable anywhere on the planet in a few hours notice and though it is scheduled to be deployed in 2013 I am sure the 3 testing prototypes stationed in MD can fill in if the need is great enough, and anyway the plane is just the platform for the sensor gear already in use aboard naval vessels.
This should not be construed to mean I think we should have a war with Iran or anybody else, but you seem to be dealing with an idea of our military capabilities that we did indeed have, in 1978. The P-8A is the replacement generation for the PC-3 and it is like comparing the Santa Maria to the Millennium Falcon. A whole lot has changed since the last time the DOD updated the public on what we can and can't do. War is ugly and people get killed, the fact that we have so much invested in our technology to minimize the toll does not mean we can't get a black eye, but wait till you see the other guy. And there is really a very simple solution to all of this, Iran can allow inspectors back in with unlimited access and return to the negotiating rooms, and it would not hurt matters if they drop the government policy of genocide toward Israel. If it is war they want it will be war they get, and I for one hope that should they go that route they get a beating so bad that they never ever think of war as an option again.
Well, it's not that good, but it certainly can make the sea/ocean appear quasi-translucent.
The US has been absolutely pouring resources into brownwater (and also bluewater) ASW capabilities with the rise of China, the Iran issue and the re-emergence of Russia and impressive new generation Russian subs.
Of course closing the strait is an act of war ... what the fuck is your point? So is economic strangulation of a non-hostile Sovereign UN Member state. The United States Treasury Dept declared war on Iran and its people late last November.
What precisely don't you understand about that?
And sorry pal, the USN was a solely bluewater affair, in 1990, (with the USMC getting in close for landings).
But for the past 20 years the USN has been relentlessly increasingly developing both the doctrine, and the platforms, weapons, sensors and updates to existing platforms, to engage in high-intensity brown-water operations against diesel electric boats, and near shore offensive forces.
I posted a detailed comments and links about this a few days back.
LCS & MH-60S Mine Counter-Measures Continue Development
The USA’s New Littoral Combat Ships (LCS)
For your information sub-launched torpedo attacks are literally sucidal acts of stupidity against a modern Western navy. If you don't know that, then you don't know much.
These Kilos would be used to lay mines and gather intel for other engagement systems, or at worst to fire anti-ship missiles within a co-ordinated missile attack with other forces, and from as far away as possible friom US ships and helicopters.
(and I happen to know the Australian A-PC3 variant is a devastatingly effective brown-water ASW platform ... and I bet the USN aircraft are, as well)
Those Kilos are at the very top of the hit list and are constantly tracked and monitored.
If I was on one of those Kilos I'd tend to do a lot of preying for world peace.
The USN will NOT lose the battle with Iran, but the USA itself WILL lose the war.
The point is that every time I have said that closing Hormuz would be on it's face an act of war there have been half a dozen ZH posters here that called me every dirty name in the book. Nice to know at least one poster agrees with me.
As to the capabilities of detection, you said they are "...not THAT good..." and I will submit that I do not KNOW from personal experience how good they are or are not, because nobody including you knows what or how good those abilities are and lives to write about it on a site like ZH. But, I do have a good sense of what the abilities were many years ago from a trusted relative and the capabilities were better in 1984 than most readers here would give the current navy credit for.
"So is economic strangulation of a non-hostile Sovereign UN Member state..." Like Israel? By the way, I ain't your "pal." I am rereading what I wrote in a vain attempt to discover where you got the idea that I mentioned anything about torpedoes no matter the launch platform.
Preying for world peace? Classic, prey for peace, did you mean to do that?
When it comes to war and it's possible outcomes define LOSE. Like we lost in Viet Nam? I guess you could claim Viet Nam "won." Though it strikes me their win was a somewhat Pyrrhic victory. Twenty plus years of war and in the end the government in Hanoi is just as capitalist and friendly with us as if we had actually "won." Some blurry shit these lines in the sand. I have wondered since the sixties if the North had been patient would they have achieved their goals of a socialist independent North Viet Nam without any war at all, I mean the French Empire was crumbling already, had hostilities not been started there might well have been a negotiated independence by 1960 without a shot fired.
You rant against the way things are, I did not make them what they are but you are impotent to affect change with the Cheney's, Obama's, or others that do have authority, so you take it out on me. I call a fact a fact and those that want to live in denial call me names for it, duh, was always so and I am sure always will be, that is a major part of how shit got so fucked up to start with, no truth, no debate, just schoolyard bullies in denial beating on the most convenient geeky kid they can find. But, at least I am up front about my posts and call them speculations because NOBODY posting here has a crystal ball or inside information, what you post is qualitatively no better than what I post, pure speculation on your part as well.
er ... you got the bull by the tit there (pal).
If you looked up at the thread hierarchy you would have noticed my comment is responding to the comment of TheObsoleteMan ... not to you ... dumbass ... (just a bit of light verbal abuse, to keep your massive inferiority complex in a superior-state of tune-up).
This is the comment I was responding to (hence the reference to torpedos you could not fathom):
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/uss-stennis-supposedly-leaves-straits-oman...
I'm not agreeing with you, per sec, I'm just pointing out a few of the realities of the military equation because I think it's important that we have a much clearer picture of what's going on within this crucially important pending-war situation, and of how it may develop, and why.
So I 'm putting across both sides of the coin, to that end, mainly because I don't want to see another country destroyed for no REAL reasons by Washington war-criminals, and nor do I want the US itself to completely blow its idiotic foot off, plus seriously impair the near and medium-term prospects of the entire Western world, nor to create another cold war for the benefit of the treacherous US military industrial estate.
RE North Vietnam, Hanoi made considerable and concerted efforts to reach out to the US during the 1950s, specifically to obtain political an economic support, and to aid the unification of post colonial Vietnam. Guess what? Washington just slapped their hand away and labelled them Commies. So they reached out to China and Russia for exactly the same support and aid, with exactly the same objective.
'prey' was not deliberate.
BTW, I much prefer people to post a contrary view, with a bit of abuse if it helps (which is really just a form of punctuation ... dickhead! ... lol), than a consensus one with lots of verbal sycophancy, not because I like the aggression of it (although I do), but because it works so much better than that passive butt-licking bullshit alternative.
You'll just have to cope ... pal.
To quote Spock, double dumb ass on you, I was replying to Obsolete man so go fuck yourselt shit for brains.
(1) You referred to that line within my comment above, have a look fool.
(2) You nested your comment directly under my comment, indicating you were replying to my comment.
(3) And you're a ... lame-arse trekie?
OMG!
If you can't even manage that stuff without making a complete twat of yourself, TWICE, then what hope do you have in any real discussion?
OK, anybody reading this will see that A) I do not give a shit and am laughing at you, B) not much of a trekkie since Kirk actually said that, and C) you are really easy to manipulate. I actually did not even read past the first line of your last post because you are the kind of fuctard troll that thinks calling people names is valid support for your stupid posts.
LOL ... yeah, right ... but you and I both know that's not true ... you read the whole lot.
(1) Apparently you're enough of a trekie to know such levels of inane trivia (OMFG!)
(2) And I've noticed you immediately give yourself a green arrow, after you post! (WTF?!)
wow man ... just wow ... your inferiority complex is that much of a problem? ... those people above who all called you all sorts of disparaging names ... they're right about you ... but you knew that already ... right? ... yeah ... that's right.
LMAO!
Again, you have made my point. The new generation weapon system that you mention is for blue water operations. Iran's subs {small compared to ours} could easily hide under rigs in the gulf. The rig count in the gulf is 114! Talk about an ambush zone. Irans torpedos are of the rocket propelled type, 4 to 5 times faster than convential torps. That would put them at about 200mph. Their sub launched missles are much faster of course. Finally, there is Russia. Are they bluffing? Time to call or fold:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/151739
Open your eyes, why would the USN ever use a sub in the gulf when all it has to do is seed the littoral with self-deploying torpedos in sea mine mode, that will wait for and select to attack ONLY the Iranian Kilos.
Those kilos will be tip-toeing around in a MASSIVE unseen high-tech minefield.
Face it, they're going to be dead meat long before the USN re-enters the gulf (which would take months to occur after the Iranians decide close it, if not longer).
You are just under-rating and under-estimating the US Navy - don't.
They MAY not be the best at littoral sub-surface combat ... but ... well ... they probably are the best.
"Finally, there is Russia. Are they bluffing? Time to call or fold..."
Russia? China some say, doesn't matter, they have no dog in the fight unless they choose for other reasons to challenge the western powers. If you are cynical enough to think the west is playing the ME like a chessboard why would you then naively think Russia and China are doing otherwise? Perhaps we have to play it like chess because they are, chicken meet egg, egg meet chicken. Will China sacrifice it's queen and a rook? Will Russia commit knights and bishops to Iran? Neither China, nor Russia, is going to commit it's best pieces in defense of Iran which is essentially a pawn that thinks itself the white king.
Russia is using Iran as a goad to it's old nemesis, without which they would not even be on the chessboard anymore. My reading of Russia's position in all of this is they are beginning to seriously regret their part in it and seek a way to bow out that saves face, one way they are exploring now is by acting as mediator in the mess, it might still work. I really believe Russia would be relieved if Israel did bomb the nuclear facilities in Iran, even if the US did. I do not believe Russia wants a nuclear armed Iran any more than we do, less so because they are so much closer to Iran than we are. I think the Russians have slowed the progress of Iran rather than helped them once they were sure of Iran's real intentions. The Islamic terror Russia experienced so far upon their civilians has been worse than what the US has dealt with, though incrementally in many episodes rather than one huge attack as we had. When the power of the Soviet Union suddenly collapsed it left a vacuum in Russia, one that Putin has been working to fill, he is determined to get Russia back on center stage and will go far to get that, but not war with the western powers.
Note when I say western powers it is because this deepening gloom over the issues of Iran and atomic weapons and Israel and all the rest, it is not just the USA, if anything the USA is the least willing to make war, doing the most to prevent it, trying to make sure that Iran has had every opportunity to resolve the issues short of war. We have been able to hold Israel back so far, though I wonder how much longer we can do that short of threatening to cut the hawks there off of their welfare ticket and maybe we already have made just that threat should Israel act unilaterally. France and Britain, even Germany have pushed harder for real sanctions beyond what the USA was willing to do for years. They have jumped on the new sanctions even as the USA holds an olive branch to Iran to get back to calmer negotiations. We do not hide the fact that we hold some big sticks, but it is the USA that is reluctant to use them, Europe is more militant in this than we are and Israel? No comment necessary, even other Arab states would quietly prefer bombing runs than to see a nuclear capable Iran.
And it is not because of Russia or China either. If they act on behalf of Iran should war come then it will be for other geopolitical reasons that could and should better be resolved through diplomacy. If they were to act then it would simply be an "OK then" moment, "let the chips fall where they may." Russian or Chinese blackmail is no different from Iranian should they resort to it. I mean it when I say I hope there is no war, but you can also believe it when I say peace, as valuable as it is, should not be obtained at all cost. Sometimes men do go to war, and sometimes it is even just. America isn't perfect, it very often is three steps forward and two steps back, but compared to the rest of the human family, some of whom are outright psychotic, we are the best hope for man still. You want some steps forward? Make it happen. Without active locomotion forward the default gear is backward. Start by recognizing that almost all human activities today that are negative would not be necessary if our global population was not exploding ever higher. Voluntary population control is the necessary prerequisite to any meaningful change and the without which all other attempts to save the world will fail. Maybe it is time for man to come to an end.
EDIT: By the way, that is not my red arrow, I suspect someone dissed you just reading the source of your link. That happens a lot here, anyone that thinks that Israel has a right to exist is automatically red arrowed on every post even if it is about the quality of the cream in your morning coffee.