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With Vacation Over, Europe Is Back To Square Minus One: Merkel Backs Weidmann, Demands Federalist State

Tyler Durden's picture


Earlier today we showed for the nth time that with insanity and insolvency ravaging the old continent, at least one person has the temerity to avoid sticking his head in the sand of collectivist stupidity and denial. That person is Bundesbank head Jens Weidmann, who until now may or may not have had the backing of Germany's elected leader, Angela Merkel. Moments ago it became clear whose side Merkel, who recently came back from vacation and is set to spoil the party that the (insolvent) mice put together in her absence, is on. From Reuters, who quotes Merkel in her just released interview with German ARD: "I think it is good that Jens Weidmann warns the politicians again and again," Merkel said. "I support Jens Weidmann, and believe it is a good thing that he, as the head of the German Bundesbank, has much influence in the ECB."

Merkel also has some additional words about the Grexit.

Merkel allies, particularly the Bavarian Christian Social Union (CSU), have stepped up criticism of Greece in recent weeks, with senior CSU lawmaker Alexander Dobrindt saying at the weekend that he expected Athens to be out of the euro zone next year.


Last week, Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras visited Merkel in Berlin and issued an impassioned plea for German politicians to tone down their rhetoric, saying it was making it impossible for Greece to win back confidence and launch its privatizations drive.


Merkel said she believed Samaras was making a serious attempt to turn Greece around and issued a similar warning to her fellow politicians in Germany, saying Europe was in a "very decisive phase" in its three-year old crisis.


"My plea is that everyone weigh their words very carefully," she said.

Which she certainly did when Samaras came to Germany begging for more money. She very definitely said absolutely nothing. What she did say, is that after all the posturing, masquerade, and outright lies, Germany now demands precisely what it demand months ago, a year ago, and when this whole European implosion started. A European Federalist state. Again from Reuters:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel wants an EU 'convention' to draw up a new treaty for closer European political unification to help overcome the bloc's sovereign debt crisis, weekly Der Spiegel said on Sunday.


Germany, the European Union's biggest economy, has long argued for more national competences, including over budgets, to be transferred to European institutions but faces strong resistance from other member states.


Merkel hopes a summit of EU leaders in December can agree a concrete date for the start of the convention on a new treaty, Spiegel said.


The idea, which Spiegel said Merkel's European affairs adviser floated at meetings in Brussels, recalls the 100-plus strong convention of EU lawmakers set up in 2001 - inspired by the Philadelphia Convention that led to the adoption of the U.S. federal constitution - charged with the task of preparing a European constitution.


The charter that finally emerged was rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005 and it became instead the basis of the EU's Lisbon Treaty which is still in force today.


Many member states, recalling the lengthy disputes and setbacks that preceded the Lisbon treaty's entry into force, are reluctant to embark on another prolonged process of institutional reform.

Which is funny because as we were reminded earlier today by the Independent, it was none other than Europe, i.e. the Troika that forced Ireland into a bailout courtesy of a secret letter that is about to be unsealed (one can hope). Why: so European bankers aren't forced to mark to market the value of their insolvent loans either in Ireland or anywhere else.

Finance Minister Michael Noonan has said a secret "threatening" letter from the European Central Bank to his predecessor Brian Lenihan, which forced Ireland into the troika bailout in 2010, should now be released.


The letter has to date remained top secret and both the Department of Finance and the ECB have repeatedly refused to make it public.


Now Mr Noonan has said he favours it being made available, putting him on a potential collision course with the ECB, which is adamant that it remain "strictly confidential".


The controversial letter from the then ECB president Jean Claude Trichet to Mr Lenihan dated November 19, 2010, is said to have threatened the withdrawal of emergency liquidity assistance (ELA) to Ireland if the then government refused to accept the bailout, that included a ban on burning bondholders.

It is these same people that are now expected to not only continue footing the bill for the banker bailout, but to hand over their sovereignty, together with rest of insolvent Europe, over to Berlin, because the alternative is once again simply "unspeakable" (thank you Hank Paulson and 3 letter term sheets). Maybe not:

Some countries such as Ireland would have to hold a referendum on any new treaty and the process would increase pressure in Britain - where opposition to closer EU political union runs high - for a complete withdrawal from the EU.


However, Germany believes a much closer fiscal and political union - with EU oversight of national budgets - is needed to ensure that member states get their public finances fully in order and to restore stability to the euro currency.

All of the above summarized in one word: "volatility" which is what is about to come back to Europe with a vengeance as the fundamental problem at Europe's core is made all too clear once more: 17 countries in the "Union", 17 different languages, 17 election cycles, and 17 different rates of going broke, all of which, however, are converging toward unity with each passing day.


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Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:11 | 2738694 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

All heil the Fourth Reich!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:11 | 2738696 jcia
jcia's picture

Different cultures and hiSTORY

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:18 | 2738707 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

One world government, coming to a theater near you.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:20 | 2738713 akak
akak's picture

That IS the ultimate wet dream of every diehard statist, isn't it?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:35 | 2738737 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Once again you are exposing the complete absence of logic in your black and white view of the world better than anyone who is arguing with you could hope to achieve.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:38 | 2738748 akak
akak's picture

Projection much?


(That was, of course, a rhetorical question --- the answer is patently obvious to anyone who has read any two of your posts.)

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:49 | 2738764 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Black = fascist state.  White = liberty, where unicorns run free of any restrictions of any kind.  Gray = balance of small government with fair taxes for infrastructure and other desirable ends, and regulations to protect against unbridled oligarch power.  The latter doesn't exist in akak's perception of reality and is not a worthy goal.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:55 | 2738781 akak
akak's picture

Ah yes, some societal coercion is good --- as long as YOU get to decide which kinds and how much, right?

Or maybe we can decide these matters through democracy, yes?  Because of course a tyranny of the majority is automatically acceptable, and that majority can NEVER be co-opted by the sociopaths who actually have their hands on the levers of power, right?

Your simplistic spoon-fed nostrums and childish naivete never cease to amaze me --- nor does your vicious dishonesty and irrational emotionalism.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:24 | 2738848 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And yet your solution is the let the lunatics run the asylum lest they be coerced.  Humanity is flawed, akak.  No matter how much your simple view of "liberty" wants to believe otherwise, sociopaths exist and they will not play nice or fair.  They will do bad things and coerce others regardless of the societal construct.   If it is not coercion through elected government, it will be by economic monopoly force or just good old brute force (Kings and Queens existed long before Democracy did, and there would be plenty of those seeking the "throne" if we did away with government as we know it).   The key is balance in an imperfect word.  But seeing that requires a mind that sees nuance.  These are concepts that escape those who see in black and white terms such as yourself.  This is also why you can worship Ayn Rand yet reject Greenspan as an apostate and forgive Rand her war against drugs and neo-con view of the military as aberrations as opposed to the pure hypocrisy that underlies her "philosophy" of selfishness.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:39 | 2738857 akak
akak's picture


And yet your solution is the let the lunatics run the asylum lest they be coerced.  Humanity is flawed, akak.  No matter how much your simple view of "liberty" wants to believe otherwise, sociopaths exist and they will not play nice or fair.

And yet YOUR solution is to give the most evil among us, the sociopaths who most crave power, even MORE power over the rest of us, via the unparalleled and all-encompassing power of government.  You are insane.

My solution is to decentralize power as much as possible through a a free market based on the free and voluntary actions of individuals --- yours is to concentrate and expand positions of power through the power of government, which is to say, institutionalized coercion.  There is nothing 'progressive' about such a philosophy; it is in fact regressive in the most literal sense, taking us back to feudalism and ages-old authoritarianism.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:50 | 2738874 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Power always centralizes.  That is the point you and your ilk always gloss over.  Look at history and tell me about how humanity organizes itself when there is no elected government.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:55 | 2738881 akak
akak's picture

COERCIVE power always centralizes, yes.  Meaning the power of government.

In a free and open society, and economy, power actually tends to decentralize.  But you clearly do not know nearly enough history to be able to appreciate that fact, or else are too blinded by your statist ideology to accept it.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:05 | 2738895 LetThemEatRand
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So please list a few examples in history where kings, queens, warlords etc did not fill a power void and rule by force.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:28 | 2738910 akak
akak's picture

Medieval Iceland and Greenland were both stateless societies, to give just two examples.

But in your dishonest and disingenuous all-or-nothing thinking, you neglect to consider the degree to which different societies have been free of government control vs. the amount (or lack thereof) of the kind of abuses of power (again, always granted by government in the first place) by favored or monopolistic business concerns against which you so misdirectedly flail.


Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:39 | 2738933 LetThemEatRand
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Medieval Iceland and Greenland were sparsely populated frontier areas.  Moreover, individual settlements in Iceland were ruled almost immediately by various cheiftans who later banded together and formed a government.  So even if we ignore that medieval Iceland does not remotely resemble society as it exists in modern times, it does not prove your point in the slightest.  In fact, it proves mine.  Try again.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:26 | 2738928 gwar5
gwar5's picture



I think you love to hate-rape Ayn Rand so much because it's in your own self-interest. No? Oooh, the irony!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:38 | 2738863 Lore
Lore's picture



" regulations to protect against unbridled oligarch power."

Yeah, control freaks always respect regulations.


Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:55 | 2738878 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture


The people to whom you would give the keys, have corrupted some regulators.  

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:03 | 2738891 akak
akak's picture

The imperfect, but optimal, solution to that problem is to make EVERYONE a regulator, via their voluntary choices and decisions within a free market.  Concentrating that power in the hands of a select few (government) only guarantees the abuse of that power, as well as providing an irresistable lure to the sociopaths who most crave wielding power over others.  Nobody was ever forced to go to war by a business concern.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:13 | 2738902 LetThemEatRand
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"Nobody was ever forced to go to war by a business concern."

You do know why it's called the military "industrial" complex, right?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:20 | 2738917 akak
akak's picture

What a specious and irrelevant response.  Only par for the course with LTER, though.

And where would the military-GOVERNMENT-industrial complex be without the power of an aggressively militaristic goverment to wage war?

I'm still waiting for your examples of wars waged by private, free-market forces.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:37 | 2738945 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You are making a circular argument.  I asked you earlier to show me a single example in history where a tyrant did not fill a power vacuum, and you came up with medieval Iceland and Greenland as your best examples.  Both had chieftans, so even your weak attempt to prove your point failed miserably.  Human beings have always had rulers who are the ones who wage war.  If there were an example where private individuals living in a perfect free market existed, I assume you'd mention it.  As far as I know, there has never been such a society therefore I cannot give you an example of such a society waging war.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:47 | 2738955 akak
akak's picture

You are as disingenuous a son-of-a-bitch as I have ever encountered in this forum. 

My point was precisely that no business has ever marched off conscripts to war, or gone to war in the first place, your implication two posts above having been that it is business interests (corporate and government-allied as they may be) who are primarily responsible for wars.  I asked you to show me an example of a war waged by private, non-governmental forces, something which you cannot do, so you avoided the issue altogether.

Statists.  You are an intellectually sorry lot, each and every one of you.  I despise you, and damn the weakness of mind and spirit among so many that forces me to share the planet with the likes of you.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:50 | 2738957 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And now with the name calling, huh?   That is where I call it a day.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:17 | 2738996 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

?! "examples of wars waged by private, free-market forces"

- The private India companies, like the East India Company. Private armies, private fleets, private wars, own flag.

- The Norsemen, or just all pirates, privateers and buccaneers ever existed, your flag.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:29 | 2739026 akak
akak's picture


- The private India companies, like the East India Company. Private armies, private fleets, private wars, own flag.

Yes, but the East India Company was granted exclusive privileges (i.e., a monopoly on power within their sphere of influence) by the British crown, so to the extent that they waged war, they did so as agents of the British government.

However, I will grant you the example of pirates, and I will even add the vile record of the Russian promyshlenniki in Alaska prior to the founding of the Russian-American Company in their savagery against the Aleuts and other Alaskan native peoples.  Nevertheless, are you REALLY going to compare the relative pinpricks of such non-governmental violence to the wholesale hacking-off of limbs that government-waged wars have been throughout history?


Mon, 08/27/2012 - 03:09 | 2740268 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 of course not, the body count of "the state" is far greater. Nevertheless, when "the state" is weak, the non-connected individual is not necessarily freer. Renaissance Italy is a good example, the great families were private, comparable with modern oligarchs with own mercenaries.

and the battleground between the "Great Private" and the "Great Community" were the cities like Florence et al, where you can still see the palace-fortresses and towers of the dominant families that answered to no-one. the square holes, by the way, were often used for gibbets.

most of the Greek and Roman-Republican history revolved around the fight between the power of "private" strong men vs the all the others.

homo homini lupus was something everybody understood, and forged communities for protection against them.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 07:35 | 2740323 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Those city states relied on numbers under arms and behind battlements. Modern cultures can deter external aggression by means of chemical, biological and/or nuclear M.A.D. - as well as by asymetric tactics.

There is no comparison to the old world (look how unsuccessful the US has been in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia and elsewhere...imagine how even less successful a private Xe or GS militia would be in maintaining control against other private militias attempting to monopolise a resource!).

Your old saw of dragging out the [so-called private] East India companies [yet again] is a total red herring ... they were proxy government [royal] militias that served a colonial purpose. That turkey won't fly in the 21st century.

It is time for the western world to stop sticking its nose into every other culture in an attempt to stop other cultures from worshipping Allah or selling their own oil on their own terms.

The world needs to grow up and start acting like adults!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:00 | 2738789 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 to take-no-shit akak!

Vacation is over for the next day or two down here as "Isaac" goes by...  A different storm than what is happening in Europe. But, that gives me the time to write today as the wind blows and the rain comes down in sheets.  

"Silver and Gold"

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:06 | 2738804 akak
akak's picture

Hey DoChen, good to see you around!

Nice segue to your blog link, also.   ;-)

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:24 | 2738723 john39
john39's picture

>>>Different cultures and hiSTORY

no worries, they are already destroying your culture... what fact remains known of your history (aside from the propaganda) will also be erased...  imagine how easy it will be when most books, magazines etc are digital only...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:45 | 2738954 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

 "Merkel hopes a summit of EU leaders in December can agree a concrete date for the start of the convention on a new treaty, Spiegel said." we kick the can further....It's all Bullshit!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:17 | 2738703 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Really this just shows once again that Merkel is a lying biatch, bent on destroying Germany as a sovereign nation and create a superstate, just as her banksters puppeteers ordered her to do. She only talks against ``Germany funded bailouts`` because she wants the whole EU bankrupt so the sheeple can then ask a ``solution`` which will be a United Soviet States Of Europe.

The whole :

- Create crisis

- Bring solution

- Profit

Scheme is at work once again. Merkel parading as a politician who defends Germans interest against those greedy Greeks when in fact, she's backstabbing Germany in the neck.

She's a stinking traitor.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:39 | 2738864 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture





Obama asks eurozone to keep Greece in until after election day

US officials are worried that if Greece exits the eurozone, it will damage President's election hopes

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:22 | 2738920 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

No surprise.  He told Russia he'll have more "flexibility" after the election. 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:42 | 2738866 Lore
Lore's picture



Same question keeps coming up: WHERE ARE THE CHARGES OF TREASON?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:15 | 2738907 The Reich
The Reich's picture

but her actions speak different than words...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:12 | 2738697 john39
john39's picture

so the real aim all along begins to take concrete form...  more fascism in the form of further centralization of power....  

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:39 | 2738727 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Fascism doesn't exist .... it's an invention by the left to distance themselves from Hilter's failed socialist plan !  It is the Mother of all Straw Dogs .... the "Big Lie" !

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:14 | 2738905 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

lol you cad

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:18 | 2738710 KingTut
KingTut's picture

Why do people think that an insolvent continent will be made solvent by forcing it into a single "Federalist State"?  It will be equally insolvent afterwards, and remain so untill all the cultural differences are irradicated.  Cultural diversity is a good thing, not bad.  But tell that to the idiots who put an efficient economy above everything, to the exclusion of everyting else.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:25 | 2738729 akak
akak's picture

The people who really matter, those in power, of COURSE do not believe their own self-serving and dishonest propaganda.  It is all about the centralization and expansion of economic and political power --- "solvency" is merely the rationalization used to acheive that goal, much as "security" is currently in the USA.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:37 | 2738740 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Extend your logic and guess what?  The fucking planet is insolvent, but the elite want their fucking rent peasant, they own you.  Now pay up.

I often ask my optimistic friends, "What happens once the entire planet is an efficient producer like Germany?  Who will the earth be selling to?  Where will the earth get the raw materials from to keep the "growth" meme going?

Stupid fucking sheep.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:07 | 2738810 malikai
malikai's picture

That's why we are expanding our markets into places like Mars. Soon we will be signing free trade agreements with the Titans as well. Naturally, we will have to send a few aircraft carriers in order to secure democracy for the poor Titans, who have been living under the evil dictator Saturn. But we will bring them freedom. I promise you that.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:55 | 2738880 TIMBEEER
TIMBEEER's picture

Thank you. The algae and bacteria on Mars desperately need "democracy."

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:12 | 2738900 Ungaro
Ungaro's picture

I have the exclusive rights to McDonalds franchises on the planet Mars. I will make you a good price for any number of restaurants. For Burger King, Wendy's, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut deals, send $10 with SASE.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:09 | 2739609 epwpixieq-1
epwpixieq-1's picture

It is funny, how the human civilization was given with an opportunity to develop a civilization with harmony of the Natural world on this planet and it scramble this for some 100 years or so.

Now it is too late, or at least it is too late for about 5-6 Billion of us, and we are worried about insolvency, funny really funny.

It the reality of the coming decades was not so dark, these type of statement would deserve a status of a first class comedian joke.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:19 | 2739645 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Why do I have to pay rent to some asshole who got here before me and owns everything?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:02 | 2738794 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Because socialists don't know what insolvency means. They just murder those who are different, whether culturally or politically different.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:36 | 2738942 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

The Europeans should learn from the states that joined the union here.  They should look what our central government is doing to states that don't tow the line and how there have been many end-around attempts to bypass the constitution.  With centralized printing of money, the states have been bought off with offers of free cheese.


It also just seems Europe is completely different than the United States.  They have a long history of being seperate and many attempts at forced unification that killed thousands.  The US was a new and the states were new without that history.  I'm not sure the states would form such a union today.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:28 | 2739023 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 Explain this to the various "analysts" that just want to present a "clear case" so that a bull or bear run can start. 

btw, "The Europeans should learn from the states that joined the union here." Just a small reminder: the USA is a Superpower since WWII and the Hyperpower since 1989. It's not a country that has been under-analyzed by european political thought.

All the push from the German side is based on something very simple: no help without political, financial and economic reform. There is no such thing as a free lunch, in the economy as little as in politics.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:22 | 2738720 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Deutschmarks!  Deutschmarks!  Deutschmarks!

Germany could solve this Euro problem by leaving it, and leaving the propping to France.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:24 | 2738726 john39
john39's picture

but germans are not in control of germany, any more than Americans are in control of the U.S. government...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:38 | 2738752 odatruf
odatruf's picture

This is truth.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 15:38 | 2741698 Tursas
Tursas's picture

Both ruled by one Body...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:25 | 2738728 JR
JR's picture

The attendees at Brussels versus the attendees at the “Philadelphia Convention that led to the adoption of the U.S. federal constitution” came not only with different portfolios but with quite a different objective: one was to form a pact to defend freedom; the other to form a pact to harness sovereignty.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:35 | 2738859 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

The attendees at the Philadelphia Convention were also all Englishmen (except for a few Dutchmen from New York perhaps).

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:36 | 2739036 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Why did they not invite some of the Indians. At that time Im sure there were still more around than nowadays.

By the way its very common that over time different tribes form more or less a single identity.  The old heartlands of Euroland France, Germany and Italy have very much in common.  The language barrier is not that much of  a problem.  Look at India. it has many different languages and cultures but one language everybody understands a bit. As a matter of fact the situation in Europe is similar. but its hard for the French to accept that a language other than French dominates the continent. But facts are facts and dreams are dreams. So English is going to make its way overtime in Europe and French is spoken in France and German in Germany etc. So no problem. Just have to get used to it.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:19 | 2740138 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

"France, Germany and Italy have very much in common".  Yes, they've all tried to dominate their neighbors, including one another, by force.  They're still trying, just through political manoeuvring.  They have a very exciting future together.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:27 | 2738731 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

My, my..

These German pols really know how to win friends and influence everyone. Perhaps Letzemborg will jolly up and cede sovereignty but no-one else will - Eurozone or otherwise.

Perhaps Germany should cut to the chase and bugger off from the EU, maybe get pally with the Ruskies again (yeah, that'll work) and the rest of Europe can have an economic free trade area with tarrif control for the Mercantilist Bosch.

Good times for all


Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:34 | 2738739 JR
JR's picture

Trichet’s letter to Ireland's Brian Lenihan reminds one of Comrade Paulson’s friendly threat to Bank of America's Ken Lewis: either take Merrill or we’ll ruin you.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:43 | 2738743 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Socialism is Faux Democracy designed by statist pigs to deny any measure of real freedom to the peasants !

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:36 | 2738744 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

It will all end in revolution, it always does.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:37 | 2738749 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Europe, even with a federalist model will be about as functional as a Siamese twins conjoined back to back.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:38 | 2738753 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

And history of continuous wars.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:11 | 2738761 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Modern governments are way more oppressive and arrogant and intrusive than King George ever was on a bad day !  He would have conformed himself momentarily to a modest VAT on Tea !   The other colonies survived .... of course they are eternally indebted to our American impertinence if they are men enough to admit it !  FSF  (Fuck Socialism Forever)

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:49 | 2738768 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The short term political coniderations will outweigh the possible long term benefits of federalsm and so any move towards federalism is doomed.

The schizophrenic and often combative gibberish emanating from European leaders over the last two years clearly portrays divided thinking, divided loyalties and lack of process.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:11 | 2738820 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yet, it has gone on for several years...

To use a trading metaphor, in the absence of the world's largest margin call, nothing will change.

Really, there is collateral behind the world's debt, trust us...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:03 | 2738796 flaunt
flaunt's picture

Hang on wait a sec... Zerohedge is bearish on Europe?  I had no idea!  


Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:13 | 2738821 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Lisbon Treason-2. You know Merkel, give us the flag and the euro anthem and keep the rest of your fascist union. At least we'll have something to sing when the flag gets burned.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:59 | 2738886 TIMBEEER
TIMBEEER's picture

Nobody in Europe wants that shit. Not in Germany, not in Greece, not even the Martians want an European anthem (puke!). Stuff it down Herman van Gollum's throat.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:31 | 2739030 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Eh? there is an european anthem. and it get's sung all over europe.


Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:57 | 2738882 BrigstockBoy
BrigstockBoy's picture

Deutschland Deutschland über alles

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:03 | 2738893 Ungaro
Ungaro's picture

Wow, what a heated thread! I am in Germany (Munich) at the moment, which lends a bit of prespective. The Germans are sick and tired of handing over money to the profligate southerners and cannot understand why other European economies cannot function as well as their own.

Germans work hard and they produce much more than they consume, even though they live well and enjoy nice vacations, clean cities and systems that function well. The only fallacy I can find in their thinking is that not all nations can be net exporters. If all nations had an overcapacity, we would experience deep deflation.

Their counter-argument is that they do not mind China selling cheap junk to Tajikistan and Albania, as long as those countries buy quality manufactured goods from Germany. So why did the EU have to destroy entire industries in some countries in order to protect the ones in the core? By becoming a member of the Eurozone, Hungary's refined sugar industry was destroyed so she now has to import sugar from other member states. This is just one example, there are dozens of others. This is one of the two main reasons for the periphery going broke.

The other reason is economic imperialism. After setting up rules under which a country must import virtually everything, loans are offered to pay for those imports, often at onerous rates. Thus, "too much debt" is not the root cause of the crisis but a side effect or unintended consequence of the economic rape.

The solution is bitter medicine all around. Debtor nations' external debts must be written off (they will be eventually anyway, or inflated away). These nations must not have access to any foreign credit and they must do everything to become competitive (forget EU minimum wage scales, or the 7,000+ pages of laws governing the growing and merchandising of cabbage, for example). They must become net exporters so they can pay for needed imports and to build up their reserves. Managed economies do not work, so the countries' economies must be freed up to become globally competitive.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:17 | 2738912 gwar5
gwar5's picture

A Supranational banker union run by central bankers only serves to legitimize the illegitimate bankers. 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:50 | 2738958 Centurion9.41
Centurion9.41's picture

They should stop this farce.  Break up the EU, now.  

A good old fashion American North/South might work ;)

Maybe a new triumvirate of GB, Ireland and Germany ...

Fact is none of these nations/peoples want to join with the others, they just want the cheap loans from the others.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 16:03 | 2738975 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture


It is these same people that are now expected to not only continue footing the bill for the banker bailout, but to hand over their sovereignty, together with rest of insolvent Europe, over to Berlin,

I wonder why to Berlin. Dont you know that the capital of Europe lies in France Strasbourg, home to the European parliamant and the highest European court. This is the place of the future. Brussels will fall back since its way to much under US/Uk influence through Nato etc.

The capital is going to be Strasbourg otherwise the French would not accept it. For the Germans its ok because the Alsace region is not typical for France. Its orientated to Switzerland and Southern Germany.  The Italians like it too because its neither Berlin nor Paris and close to Milano the Italian economic powerhouse.

The German people are going to hand over also their share of sovereignity to Strasbourg but that is fine for the Germans. They are used to live in a federalistic system for most of the past. . Unlike France where the power is concentrated in Paris.  A true European government in Strasbourg would be more powerful than Paris. That is hard to swallow for the spoiled Parisians. 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 17:14 | 2739098 Ungaro
Ungaro's picture

Federalism is dead, some just haven't read the memo. Small, regional governments living within their means (never spending more than their citizens are willing to pay for) is the answer.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 00:13 | 2740130 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

The Germans are not going to be too thrilled when they discover that in a federation the power lies with the multitude of pauper states (including France), all of whom believe Germany should continually bail out the rest.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 10:50 | 2743538 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Power needs also ingenuity. And there is no short of this resource in Germany. So come what may the Germans will always manage to stay close to the top.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 18:16 | 2739235 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Financial terrorism in absence of a good old fashioned war has never been proven to accomplish end results. Down with the FSB.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 20:14 | 2739628 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

They didn't even fire one bullet.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 16:10 | 2741812 dadichris
dadichris's picture

demand sweeping monetary and banking reform now.

it's the only way out of this unsustainable system.


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