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Warren Buffett's Philosophy On Investing In Banks
In light of last week's surprise announcement of Buffett's bailout redux of Bank of America (the first one being Goldman back in 2008), and following today's even more surprising objection by the FDIC which threatens to scuttle the Bank of Ameria settlement and force Bank of Countrywide Lynch to raise far more capital, pushing Warren to double down on his investment throwin more good money after bad, especially if the legal case moves from an Article 77-friendly NY state court to Federal, here are the philosophical thoughts from the Berkshire's oracles contained, in his "Collected Writings", on his desire to put money into banks.
And we quote:
The banking business is no favorite of ours. When assets are twenty times equity-a common ratio in this industry-mistakes that involve only a small portion of assets can destroy a major portion of equity. And mistakes have been the rule rather than the exception at many major banks. Most have resulted from a managerial failing that we described last year when discussing the "institutional imperative:" the tendency of executives to mindlessly imitate the behavior of their peers, no matter how foolish it may be to do so. In their lending, many bankers played follow-the-Ieader with lemming-like zeal; now they are experiencing a lemming-like fate.
Because leverage of 20:1 magnifies the effects of managerial strengths and weaknesses, we have no interest in purchasing shares of a poorly-managed bank at a "cheap" price. Instead, our only interest is in buying into well-managed banks at fair prices.
Perhaps a better title for this post would "Buffett on lemmings"...
Full humorous musings:
h/t Geoffrey Batt
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Warren Buffett likes Coca-Cola, Dairy Queen, Nebraska Furniture, baseball, apple pie & Chevrolet, and he has the pure, salt of the earth wisdom, and gentle ways of the most loving grandfather.
Obama 2012 election campaign quote (so get used to it):
Insider information and manipulation go a long way. You don't think you can make billions doing things the honest way do you?
the formula:
buffet in bathtub + bubbles therein + lecherous thoughts of becky quick + coincidental redline phone call
multiplied by
inside info - fast and easy money off sheepsuckers to follow - altruistic good ol' boy veneer
equals
$$$ squared for the ol' oracle
* See Gordon Geckos philosophy on investing in Airlines.
Blue horseshoe loves BAC.
Buffett's philosophy on banks:
Beat self over head with blunt instrument.
Put him in Matt Simmons' tub. He is such a liar.
Yes...just pick up the phone...talk to the Prez. Get in the tub and get a brilliant insight, a piece of genius: why not just piggy back onto a huge taxpayer-funded gov stimulus plan that will be a back door bailout to BAC?
That's what I call "free-market capitalism" at its finest!
free markets are an illusion... this is the norm. capitalism does not work without corruption and class warfare. it's so obvious now that it takes a genius not to notice it.
Central banking and free markets cannot co-exist, when you have one you cannot have the other.
We have not had anything even resembling a free market in the US in close to 100 years.
Intervention is a result of free market failure, we HAD free market capitalism but it doesn't work well with humanity because too many people will fuck each other over for a buck.
Free markets could never work, and it's been proven. This fantasy land of 'let the market decide' is total crap, often spoken by those who wouldn't have to stand outside your local bank and explain tot he mob that 'sorry, all your savings have gone, it's the free market you know'....shortly before being torn limb from llimb.
The sooner people give up this fantasy the better.
Face facts, unless you're warren and able to buy banks with 'spare cash' then you're a loser in capitalism, no matter what you tell yourself about 'I'm doing ok'.
The system only keeps going because of the cretins who believe in it, just like a ponzi scheme.
...until he blatantly supports a candidate for president with Marxist tendencies, or when he is writing his treatises on population control....at which time he goes from loving grandfather to dangerous fellow with enough money to fund all of the worst things [like Marxists or crony corporations that have almost destroyed America] exactly at that point in time when he is approaching prime dementia years.
Sweet! Go grandpa....ALL IN ON Blight on America Bank!
the liberal usage of marx here is completely random at best and rather ironic given that capitalism has eaten itself the way he predicted.
+1, prole.
Eaten not by capitalism (a concept defined by Marx himself, in this context) but by the Marxists disguised as "capitalists" as he envisioned it.
The fault is in believing the label while glazing over the rotten content.
eaten by decreasing marginal profitability, monopoly-seeking, rent-seeking, concentration of wealth, imperialism (read vietnam/iraq/afghanistan/libya/cia/[insert imperialist war du jour here]) and compound interest... everything else is hokus pokus...
Those are actually symptoms of statism, sir.
capitalism is not possible without the capitalist state protecting capitalists' interests. it has always been that way. now that it's so blatantly obvious, the average us citizen has started to notice. progress..
Your overuse of capitalism/ist does not make it so. When you stop rationalizing and *see it* for what it is you'll realize they are Marxists. The country is being increasingly run by marxists, more and more, while they in unison blame the "capitalists" (but really themselves, as defined by Marx) and you take it like a well programmed/brainwashed human that you are.
When the "fat cat capitalists" are labeled so they accept it. It is their team role to take the blame.
I hope you understand it because you'll then see a lot more with clear eyes. But I don't really think you'll...
Marxists? WTF people! This is Fascism come on! Corporations and Government working together to form a behemoth aparatus that grinds away the common man. These guys are about as Marxist as Adolph fucking Hitler and I mean EXACTLY as Marxist as Hitler.
Let me conclude by saying fuck Marx, fuck Hitler and fuck this bullshit mess by whatever label our government has turned into. A sad, sad day in America no matter what label you want to put on this steaming pile.
They are mostly the same.
But let us disagree on the name/thing and agree that, whatever it is, it is bad and should be fought with mind and body... till the end.
We can agree to disagree on the label (which I note is often divisive). Far more important that people agree that the monster one attempts to describe is indeed a menace to all.
It needs to be reclaimed, reformed, reshaped, and redirected. Let us all pray it's not too late for a peaceful outcome. At the very best the hour is late indeed.
Sorry the US is not a Marxist run society. If it was, ordinary workers would own the means of production, finance and distribution themselves, and they would pay the economic surplus generated to themselves.
They don't, so its not.
The US is a KLEPTOCRACY.
You`ve got your work cut out for you Babar. I believe you'll find that a disappointingly large portion of ZH`ers conflate Marx with, well, anything they don`t like and a lot of other stuff they don't understand, no matter how unrelated. Loudly.
For some here it's the preferred version of Godwin's Law.
Marx didn't define capitalism (i think i'm the only person in history that has properly defined it to date) ...instead Marx defined the chip on his shoulder (jealousy) and an idealised world where his moronic philosophy would work
...if he understood capitalism, like all the socialists in history, he'd understand why it wouldn't work ...but reality is not the idealists strong point
Quoting myself,
I should have said in *his* context. He needed an excuse, so, like a good politician, he created an enemy and put a label on it. The thing is that not many are stupid enough to, paraphrasing badly, "sell the rope used to hang themselves". That's why his class revolution is taking so long to happen, thankfully.
So, they need to create this class of "evil capitalists" but it takes a lot of money and a bunch of willing/washed morons to take the blame. Funding used to be from drugs... still is but seems that there are much easier ways now. I'll leave it at that.
funny.. i learn from this thread that there are "good" capitalists and "bad" capitalists.. only if it were for good capitalists everything would be fine... there are no good/bad capitalists. concentration of wealth and diminishing marginal profitability lead to rent-seeking, monopoly seeking, corruption and imperialism for all eyes willing to see. it was always like this. it always will be. good thing the us citizen is at least seeing the present corruption. maybe with some critical thinking he will also connect the dots and see the omnipresent corruption indogenous to capitalism. the tale of perfectly competitive free markets is a tale. there never has existed one there never willl.. maybe fruit/vegetable markets, which now are facing extinction brought to you by the wonderful capitalist monopoly-seeking inventions of monsanto...
the us entered the first world war by organising false flag attacks on its vessels so that capitalists could sell nerve gas to both sides. the us entered the second world war by allowing japs to bomb pearl harbor so that capitalists could make more money. the us organised another false flag attack on ny and killed 1 million iraqis so that oil could keep flowing and haliburton could make a few bucks meanwhile. there's no "clean" version of capitalism. wake up!
and for the nth time.. no, obama is not a marxist. if he were, he would not be waging imperialist commodity wars in afghanistan and socialising bank losses. marx would probably be severly frustrated if he knew people called slick imperialist puppets marxists...
Communists & fascists are just bickering brothers spawned from the same demon.
They both promote the state as superior to the individual.
It would be difficult for me to pick between them in a line up...but I can say my second shot would settle the matter.
Individuals aren't important in the current American system. Unless you have a net worth over $10M that is.
We shall see ;-)
Syndicalism, or unionism, is loosly based on Marxist economics, or "Labor Theory of Value". Carl Menger and Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk showed us that all value is "subjective", based on the principle of "diminishing marginal utility".
Capitalism has not eaten itself as Marx predicted, Capitalism has been destroyed by hostile forces as Joseph Schumpeter predicted.
Warren (Mr. Potter) Buffett is all about self sacrifice. Mr. Potter would never foreclose on the middle class would he?
Aha!
Warren Buffet's investment in BAC is altruistic, and he plans on saving orphans and widows from being foreclosed upon!
He's a great man, this Warren Buffett [senator's son].
He also likes hookers, money and power
And pretending he is folksy. He's a smart guy. People buy into it.
Becky Quick is a hooker?
Crony capitalist.
Drudge's has a link to the NY Post. The article is about how Berkshires owes the IRS back taxes as far back as 2002! Buffett is a slimeball.
Slimeball? Buffet is always going on about how he doesn't pay taxes, so you've got to give him credit for honesty.
Yeah the FDIC opposes it because they don't have enough information... till they get ``more information`` they'll be for it... or for a ``better deal`` for those sons of a whore at BAC.
I hope The Thief of Omaha's attempt to be remembered as "The Greatest Investors" fails.
It is easy to be great when the deck is shuffled in one's favor.
Buy and hold my ass. He does backdoor sweetheart vulure deals. If he believed in BAC he would have bought the common. Fuck this.
+1 correct.
He got a sweet deal he would not have done otherwise.
He is a general bull(shitter) and by saving B of A he gets to save other assets of/besides his own that would following the pandemonium of a B of A takeover by JPM.
He has sold out. You have to remember he has already pledged half his fortune to charity. You think he really gives a hoot-a-nanny if he really lost a 5 billion dollar insurance policy. Or someone threatened him in the tub. 80 year old men are easy to "get rid of naturally."
Especially considering he couldn't spend all his money before he died, even if he tried.
He's just George Soros with truth issues.
Is this site above copyright laws? I knew it was all-seeing and powerful, but damn.
Google is your friend.
LOL! Yeah Google/NSA, Big Brother and Buffett are my "friend."
"Would you like a toaster with your Bank of America passbook savings account Mr. Durden?"
;-)
@tyler--not if youre facebook or microsoft ;)
@kito
I see what you did there.
Fancy Bear
Is this site above copyright laws? I knew it was all-seeing and powerful, but damn. ************************************************************ Did Tyler put your scumbag Wall Street firm out of business? are you part of one of those Chinese Frauds? are you and evil Goldman Sachs (JP Morgan Shield) people?HOW DID YOU KNOW?? Crazy bitchez.
+1 LOL!
Sino Forest or some of ChiCom shit scam. I hope the Muddy Waters bust some more scams soon. It is the only flicker of hope that someone is trying to keep a few scam companies honest.
Well! Some bankster-apologist sure got his silk panties in a bunch!
I think that I shall never see
A bigger worm dirt magnet than Warren B.
Not enough "information" gathered at Buffet's fundraiser I take it?
Buffett can still quit...and i would fully support that decision...i mean look at Soros....
After that i will support Rupert Murdoch's decision to step down....
these 80 year olds are screwing us..
They need to have their meds taken away.
like Kapitain Kirk Kekorian getting long GM stock during the little convert arb crisis in 2005 that short squeezed the arbs, old doods will jump at the opportunity to squeeze the shorts. to prove to the world they can still get it up.
purple dented hula-hoop loves BAC
purple headed warrior with hula-hoop piercings also luvs BAC
How to be a Crony Capitalist. Have Dad serve on the US Congress.
Buffett was born in 1930 in Omaha, Nebraska, the second of three children and only son of businessman & politician, Howard Buffett, and his wife Leila (née Stahl). Buffett began his education at Rose Hill Elementary School in Omaha. In 1942, his father was elected to the first of four terms in the United States Congress, and after moving with his family to Washington, D.C., Warren finished elementary school, attended Alice Deal Junior High School, and graduated from Woodrow Wilson High School in 1947, where his SR yearbook picture read: "likes math; a future stock broker."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/blackboard/warren-buffett#ixzz1WSV1fRO0
Learned at the knee of an insider.
When I was a lad I served a term as office boy to an attorney's firm.....tra la
Maybe he sees it as a form of taxes, that is what he really likes to pay. Instead of giving his money to Obama, who bails out BAC, he directly pays taxes to BAC.
Well, duh. Warren wants to raise my taxes, the better to fund the bailout.
cnbc has a poll on whether their readers support a return to the gold standard:
sit down for this one---
70 pct support the return to a gold standard!!! this is CNBC we are talking about, not ZH--holy shit!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/43898638
That's because everyone, including my mother, is long gold.
Is your mother hot?
Does your mom have big tits?
lol my mistake for bringing my mom into the conversation
Gotta love,
Fight Club.
is all you need to know..
FAIL.
Buffett will decide to buy 750 million worth of Travelzoo while nearly drowning in a bowl full of Cheerios (after falling asleep at breakfast) tomorrow.
i'd become more bullish if that happened
My sense is the Buffett invested after getting an implied wink and nudge from either Obama or Bernanke that the BAC would be backstopped.
This whole Frank/Dodd BS that they will let banks fail is complete BS. They're just making their bailouts look like others investments. Buffett is in on it. BAC is likely already bust w/o this latest money. Its being kept hush hush by the Fed.
$5bn is just a drop in the bucket as to how much BAC probably will be on the hook.
That being said, I highly doubt Buffet loses $ on his preferred and super cheap warrant investment.
That's my point. His investment is a "sure thing" because he knows the Fed or the Obama admin won't let BAC fail. TBTF lives.
It would be foolish to think Obama and Buffett didnt have some form of "understanding" with this investment. Regardless of whether $5b is chump change to him or not, he wouldn't make it rain on BAC without knowing he'd at a minimum get his principal back. Thus he takes a senior preferred position with a common "kicker" all while knowing the gubment will wrap BAC and save everyone but maybe the commons and who knows...maybe tossing $5b at BAC not only is a slam dunk insider deal but also goes a long way to saving the more immediate counterparty risk that Berkshire Insurance Co. could have if the BAC ship were to start listing.
Well, I don't know where you get your news, but..., BAC has already made it clear that they don't NEED anyones money or help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjzAWvt83T4&feature=
Iowa corn being destroyed by a superbug that has adapted to Monsanto's genetically-modified seed
16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: 17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? 18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. 20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? 21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
Luke 12
King James Version
I Like it..
but it is just a wordy version of "If a man were to gain the whole World but lose his soul in the process".
the more people you reach the better you are doing by God..
Given the fact that most are ignorant.. K.I.S.S. should be your motto!
Just becuase someone goes out and speaks the word.. is not the same as someone who goes out and communicates the idea of the Word to others. IMHO, I am not the Pope so I can make mistakes.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/205530/20110829/bank-of-america-stock-ny...
Who are the "unnamed investors"? Hmmm
I prefer "The life of Brian", by Monty Python myself; but whatever you find amusing.
Buffet is the master. The fact that no less than the President calls him and says he calls him says it all. I think he's got them and you all and maybe even me figured out az well. Love it! The fact is it was insurance stocks that soared today--his profession. The real question is why isn't Jamie Dimon in europe right now "conquering the planet." the fact that Qatar beat him to the punch on Greece says to me he's been spending too much time focusing on DC who have just won the USA another war thank you very much. With the beautiful Ms Lagarde simply stating all the banks in Europe are broke and it makes ya wonder--hey there tough guy how 'bout a little ACTION.
assmaster fraud
he had the power to stop the housing fraud and avert the destruction of millions of middle class lives.
burn!
Greenspan had that power not Buffet. Greenspan according to the media "created a bubble"--which if that's the case he also burst it. Buffet merely made a fortune off the calamity--on Goldman Sachs no less. Anyone who squids The Squid is all right in my book.
Beelzebub
buffet is a godamn jew so he is part of the zionist conspiracy to destroy the world. no good.
"we have no interest in purchasing shares of a poorly-managed bank at a "cheap" price. Instead, our only interest is in buying into well-managed banks at fair prices."
And you're buying BofA because...? Sheesh Warren, just looking at their balance sheet:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=BAC+Balance+Sheet&annual
Total Current Assets (in thousands) - - Long Term Investments 1,359,844,000 1,325,639,000 1,474,758,000 Property Plant and Equipment 14,306,000 15,500,000 13,161,000 Goodwill 73,861,000 86,314,000 81,934,000 Intangible Assets 9,923,000 12,026,000 8,535,000 Accumulated Amortization - - - Other Assets 182,124,000 191,077,000 114,650,000 Deferred Long Term Asset Charges - - - Total Assets 2,264,909,000 2,230,232,000 1,817,943,000Please note that their Goodwill is over 5x their plant and equipment. And over 13% of their total assets are "other assets" (no doubt Skittle-shitting unicorns living in Vegas condos).
he thoroughly reviewed their books while sitting on the crapper and deemed them tbtf and thus taxpayer backed.
Hence the irony central to Tyler's post.
Buffet and Trump both long BAC, keep posting BAC collapse
crackhead stories, more you post, higher it goes..
*LOL*
*LOL* indeed
Wait Trump is long BAC? That alone would make have second thoughts if I was Buffet.
Life is far from sunny When the laugh is over And the jokes on you
Have to do a mea culpa.
Been discussing the candidates for, oh, 12 beers now, and have decided I will support Rue Paul.
Believe he won't pull Executive Orders out his ass if Congress goes a way he thinks is wrong. Rather he will TV us all on the issue with meaty discussions.
You're a sick, sick man. Please continue ;-)
Rue Paul. Liberty to express yourself. In drag!
Thank goodness for reporters actually doing their jobs and reporting on these beraking events.
Reporter explains tropical storm Irene "sea foam" to the plebes ;-)
http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/fox-reporter-gives-update-covered-in-sea-foam-20110827
Here is the video of the Sea Foam incident...unbelievable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qRJeIhW89s&feature=related
Dear Warren, eat a dick. Whoops, did I type that out loud?
Time to buy 1 share of Berkshire Class A so that I can watch Warren slip into senility first hand.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Buffets deal doesn't close till Sept. 1
warren doesn't even follow his own advice anymore
Buffett stopped following his own advice 10 years ago when he got into the derivatives game. The same person who claimed they were "WMD's" apparently thought he was smarter than everyone else and decided to join the shit show. I knew then his buy and hold philosophy was a bunch of BS
That old codger Buffet has Obama in his hip pocket.
Watch Obama push some program to bail out the banks AGAIN and label it as "Housing Recovery" or some bullshit moniker.
What a load of crap.
Once again the only people getting the shaft will be the responsible household.
Thanks for the Buffet essays, finally some insight from people who matter on this website. Those who can't. Blog. ;)
Well at least we all now know what you're doing here. If you'd been paying attention sooner you might not be such a bitter 'cannot'.
And BAC was the best opportunity he could find? I guess Buffett has even more dirt on the rest of them than you and I know.
(Buffett be dissin on you "C").
Can't believe it wasn't said yet... Alzheimer's bitchez!
lol, he's made more money than your entire bloodline will in the next millenium at the game you probably tell people your so good at. JEALOUS MUCH BITCHEZ?
Let me guess: you don't care if the world is unjust, just so long as it is unjust in your favour.
Making money = Bitchez
Losing money = Markets rigged, Everyone is iStupid, Its the government.
ITS THE NEW WORLD ORDER. MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
Oh, and making money is bad because only shiny rocks are money. maaaaaaaaaaan!
HCP: this is not the ZH'er you're looking for; though he's probably still doing well enough since he's been keeping his savings in silver since 1962.
Iowa corn being destroyed by a superbug that has adapted to Monsanto's genetically-modified seed
@slewie the pr-rat
bad link
Ahh the American Dream....I think back upon the baby boomer squids, and how much damage they have done to commodities, philposophy, politics...and I cant' help but wonder. Is it possible that they think we are all the marks? That maybe, they justified their philosophy not becuase it was right, but rather lucky (depending on your side of the fence of course)? I look around the trading floor now and see the same old reasons given by the "Greatest Generation's offspring" to try and convince me that what they say is golden. Stocks return X, this has never happened because, blah blah blah, phd etc. etc, . I heard a guy on the train say "Can you believe what happened to Rob? His boy was a boy scout, grade a student, QB, and blam...leukemia. Who would have thought?" I stared and said...well, last I checked fortune didn't ask for a resume. Most of these moves, the desire for QE3 or to keep asset prices afloat, are not because they believe it, but because they need it..or else everything that happened between 1946 and 2008 was a mirage...And that may be too much weight for those who could never live up to their parents' generation who actually fought for what they believe...out of necessity
In Classical Antiquity, an oracle was a person or agency considered to be a source of wise counsel or prophetic opinion, predictions or precognition of the future, inspired by the gods. As such it is a form of divination.
Buffet is certainly no oracle.......... BAC = Buffets American Cover-up. Cant we hear it now, during the highest bidder lunch carnival as the winner of the lunch with buffet all excited and all they hear come out of his mouth is KILL or BE KILLED . Of course he will say that it always good to have a quickie on the side.
Warren Buffoon is a rich socialist hypocrite.
Interesting. I get the 'rich hypocrite' part, but would you mind elaborating on the '-ist'?
hey G_F!
socialize losses + privatize gains = fascist
better?
Sure, for you and me slewie, but maybe Gosplan wasn't just knee-jerking like a clockwork orange.
So 'knew', what do you know?
haha too much fox news madlib confusion!
Reminds me of when he pulled out 5 billion for preferred shares of Goldman at the height of the last financial panic. Basically Goldman, and every other major bank was circling the drain ready to take the dive and Warren magically felt it was the perfect time to invest. We now all know the story of how Timmay at the NY Fed had bailed out AIG with no haircut at all for Goldman's CDS's. Goldman and JP Morgan had called Timmay's bluff and rejected his demand to put together a private consortium of banks to provide bailout lending. That would have meant Goldman would have to take a haircut on the CDS's. Brazenly they told little Timmay to pound sand, so Goldman got 100 cents on the dollar in their bad dirivitive bets with AIG. I gotta hand it to Warren, he gamed it just about perfectly. He made billions and made it seem like he was the good samaritan coming to the rescue. We'll probably never know exactly who said what and when, but I get the feeling it takes a lot more than a hunch to lay down a 5 billion dollar bet on a bank that should, by all natural rights of a free market, be bankrupt.
BAC calling Countrywide the worst investment they have ever made. Muhahahah. They even paid the courtroom expenses, in excess of 20 million, for that full blown piece of lying shit...Angelo Mozilo. Mozilo I think...is still on BAC's board, instead of a Leavenworth cell. Not bad for a guy who essentially bankrupted the US, lied about the scope of it, and is now taking BAC with him.
Mozilo you are a fucking piece of work. May your chains rest lightly on your shoulders and God help ya if I run into you.
Warren Buffett now becoming the Debacle of Omaha.
http://lonerangersilver.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/pyramid-of-capital-syst...
Hi there I am wondering if I can use this article on one of my blogs if I link back to you? Thanks.
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You forgot the epilogue:
"All of the above is null and void IF the Feds prove willing to bail me out. If that's the case, then back up the truck!!!"
Tyler Durden of ZeroHedge looks at “Warren Buffett’s Philosophy on Investing in Banks.”
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