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Was The "Collapse" Of MF Global Premeditated? A Conspiracy Theory Thought Experiment

Tyler Durden's picture





 

 Derivatives, unlike stocks where the equation has always been murky, are for the most part zero-sum products: one's gain is someone else's loss (net of commissions) unless of course the entire system collapses in a daisylinked chain reaction (think AIG). And MF Global's bankruptcy, by dint of being a derivatives broker, and the resulting massive losses to both shareholders and clients, means that some entity, on the other side of all these failed bets, made off like a bandit. Which bring us to a rather disturbing theory proposed by Walter Burien of CAFR1.com who has floated the rather the chilling idea, and what some may call an outright conspiracy theory, that by scuttling MF, Corzine effectively helped some shell company (or companies) which were controlled by a "cabal" of his closest confidants (we will let readers come up with their own theories who the former CEO of Goldman Sachs may have been close with) to make the offsetting profit that resulted from the accelerated and massive losses borne by MF's stakeholders in the vicious liquidation. As Burien says: "A government and media cover up would just focus on MFG's loss. A true and open investigation would be focused on "who" took the other side of the coin; the profit." And now that we know that Corzine allegedly lied to the Senate, just how much deeper does his transgression go, and did his really hand over the company on a silver platter to some anonymous "Hold Co" by taking on massive risks he knew were going to blow up in his face, albeit knowing the "other" side of the trade would compensate him for it? After all, Corzine's legacy may have been forever tarnished, but if there was one thing the man knew after all those mostly successful years at Goldman, it was risk. So did he really blow up MF on a idiotic risk miscalculation bet within two years of joining, purely by mistake, or is there something more?

From CAFR1

"Collapse" of MF Global?

 

Corzine MFG

Corzine is a thief. He lost by trading activity the house's (MF GLOBAL) money to the tune of a billion dollars and then dipped into the client's money for 700 million dollars (almost a 2-billion dollar loss). It is the #1 criminal infraction that can be committed in the commodity futures market by using client's funds for a house posistion and with something of this magnitude the CFTC would have gotten an arrest and seizure order against Corzine from day-one when discovered if it was for other than the politically connected Corzine.

Here is the BIG point that needs to be immediately passed on to the public. In a situation like this the "loss" to MFG is just one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is who made the profit that counter balances with the loss.

If Corzine had this set up as an intentional sting operation,  in advance a shell trading company is established and for example purposes we will call it Hong Kong Trading Partners LTD. (HKTP) held in Singapore. The sting goes like this:

As Corzine through MFG takes a derivative futures market position HKTP takes the exact corresponding opposite position tit for tat to what MFG is entering into. The market goes against MFG creating a loss but now the equal profit is growing in HKTP.

MFG increases their position and HKTP likewise does the same and the market again goes "against" MFG and "for" HKTP.

Now for the play-out of the sting. It is announced MFG has taken this large position with their own funds and also did the primary no-no of using client's funds to back it.

Well, procedure is clear in this type of situation: "Forced liquidation of all positions held by MFG"

What this does is give HKTP the liquidity to get out of their position from MFG's forced liquidation without causing an adverse movement to HKTP's position when being liquidated. MFG's forced liquidation is HKTP's volume needed to get out of their position and lock in their profit. Wealth transfer complete; MFG and a few of their clients decimated, and none outside of the sting are the wiser if no one carefully looks at who was playing the other side of the position against MFG.

If Corzine and a few of his buddies set up a sting as noted above, as far as they are concerned, they did not loose 1. something billion dollars for MFG and MFG's clients, what they did was they transferred 1. something billion dollars to themselves through a shell global trading company(s).

In most cases when a sting like this plays out it is not just one shell company used to play the other side of the coin, usually it is spreed out between ten or more shell trading companies.

A government and media cover up would just focus on MFG's loss. A true and open investigation would be focused on "who" took the other side of the coin; the profit.

 


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Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

i thought Corzines trade in itself did NOT lose any money ????????????....if so, it has to be something else

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

What are the chances of this being the next episode of "American Greed" on CNBS?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:17 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture
Scavenging Soros: Market Speculator Buys Up $2 Billion of MF Global’s Debt

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/scavenging-soros-market-speculator-buys-...

Too easy?

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:29 | Link to Comment strannick
strannick's picture

If Corazine ends up in the clink, using his holding co. profits to pay for cigarettes and protection, then he's really bunged up his risk assesment, and needs to fire his actuary.

Then again, a Wall Street banker going to jail is a far more fantastic, outlandish notion than purposely blowing up your own company for profit.

I wonder how the US Military feels about this coup d'etat in motion, and serving fraudsters like Corzine, and slick buffoons like Obama, and harpies like Secretary of State Clinton

Since the US is a banana republic in all but Treasury bond yield, how long til some general says 'enough'?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:33 | Link to Comment ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Can you spell Presidential Pardon? I'd suspect he's convicted by the end of Obummer's term and the according pardon comes right on cue. I would not be srprised if O was in on the action. Call it the ultimate fraud. 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:10 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

"the Chicago way" comes to mind. I've long held that the 'progressive' movement, at the political level is merely an organized criminal gang. Graft is the blood that keeps the whole scheme afloat. The democratic party is nothing more than a scaled up version of your local SEIU mobster affiliate. Not saying the republican establishment is any better, just pointing out that criminal gangs run our country (and the world for that matter). 

If there is really any difference then it would be in underlying philosophy. Street 'progressives' have their hearts in the right place but commit the same basic error that 'street conservatives' commit; that is both demand for government to enforce by law or regulation moral/ethical restraints to individual Liberty.

In short they both wish to expand turf and utilize the cover of government to tilt the balance of power toward their individually favored path.

Solution?

RON PAUL. BLOW IT UP.

The dempublican con artist love to speak of revolution and or transformation.

Why? Focus groups and polling retard! THEY TELL US WHAT THEY HAVE SPENT MILLIONS DISCOVERING WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR.

Take the game away, take the credit card away and take your Liberty back.

Ron Paul.

We can do this people.

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:45 | Link to Comment whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

if Ron Paul gets elected will it not be bad for gold prices ?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:04 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

Quite the opposite. His policy would allow PMs to find a MARKET price.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 06:55 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

What's with the "honorable" title?

..or the use of a title at all?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:02 | Link to Comment Jena
Jena's picture

No.  If Ron Paul gets elected it will be good for gold prices.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:09 | Link to Comment Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

He would have to go to a gold standard to fix the debt crisis and with the money supply the way it is, depending on which figure he used, M1 M2 M3, it could be anywhere from $12,500-$44,000/ounce. Jim Rickards and Max Keiser both talk about this.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Or I could grow another penis, slightly larger but complimenting my existing one and then fly circles around the Moon with my new gossamer wings.

Just sayin'

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:12 | Link to Comment Teapot_Dome
Teapot_Dome's picture

 

If we go back to a gold standard like Ron Paul wants I wouldn't be shocked if gold prices went up by a factor of 5.

 

It would be interesting too to see the President of the United States of America being completely ignored by the media.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:12 | Link to Comment Judge Arrow
Judge Arrow's picture

Were it so.  But, the fibrosis of corruption is all that keeps the body propped up and going here, there and well, everywhere. Should Paul get his wish and can implement even 10% of what he speaks of, the crash, boom, bang that you hear will be the gunfire around you. It is unfortunate but the shit is so thick that it is going to take brain surgery to pull the vital organs out of it and make a new financial entity work again. But a mad doctor with guns blazing, as much as I like that, will only cause chaos. To get there will take a decade just to keep a river of blood out of the streets, and that is looking on the bright side. Long bourbon, lead, gold, and shit.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 05:39 | Link to Comment Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Nah, I junked you because changing the money supply is just like a replacement credit card - 7 days or less.

The only thing that matters is relevancy of the new "money" -- will people buy it like they do the present debt based fiat(s)?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 08:15 | Link to Comment Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Nixon moved us off the Gold standard overnight. Will there be some chaos and pain? Sure.. However, the alternative is a continuation of an all seeing all powerful corrupt Gov't monstrosity passing laws that essentially lock good Americans up forever and perhaps even advocate torture behind their veils of secrecy. History marches on...man stays the same. Looking at history as our guide, we need to be very afraid of our recent Gov't power grab. The devil needs to be put back in the bottle at all costs.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 03:50 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

"...both (liberals and conservatives) demand for government to enforce by law or regulation moral/ethical restraints to individual

Last I checked, no big liberal politicians were pushing for drug legalization with any fervor. On virtually every important measure of liberty - property rights, the right to self defense, freedom of speech, freedom of religion - there are vast differences between liberals and conservatives.

In general, the left feels comfortable only if they are able to boss everyone around and loot openly. Republicans are comfortable only when people are aren't looting from them directly and not interfering with their secretive looting. Conservatives want to be left alone, and don't care what you do with your private parts, as long as you keep them to yourself. True conservatism means local control. The left equates that with homophobia, racism, and misogyny. You don't have to like any of the above mindsets, but to say they're the same simply isn't accurate.

People make the mistake of thinking that because conservatives are openly opposed to rampant anal sex and abortion, they want to restrict individual liberty. Even if you buy that, they're not for centralized control over _even those_ liberties. The left is for central control of everything.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:06 | Link to Comment saiybat
saiybat's picture

Both Democrats and Republicans are real big on centralization. It's not just the left doing it. There's a big move toward a more centralized economy and both the Republicans and Democrats are pushing hard for it. I don't call them liberals or conservatives because those words don't mean in the mass delusion of politics what they are supposed to mean. Politics is all rhetoric and no matter what they say there is the constant push for more centralization in all aspects of governance. What does centralization ultimately lead to? Totalitarianism. There is no left or right and it's all a farce; there is only centralization and decentralization that has any historical relevancy. What you call a liberal and a conservative now will not be the same thing it 10 years from now, atleast in rhetoric because it needs to be constantly updated. A historian doesn't look at the demagoguery going on in past regimes, they look to how centralized the regime was and the effect of what the state did. George Washington back then if such a political system existed would be called a left wing extremist and today he'd be a right wing extremist. How would you even classify Julius Caesar in the politics of today? You can't but what he did was centralize all authority to himself.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:22 | Link to Comment Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Well now there's the solution to all our problems: a military coup d'etat. Just what this country needs. /sarc

Once you go down that road there is no turning back. Look throughout history. "some general saying enough..." is the end of the American Republic (democracy/freedom) and the start of military dictatorship. I hope I never live to see it.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:44 | Link to Comment el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

I think you have it ass backwards.  Isn't it usually generals who convert republics into banana republics?  The last general who told the American public the truth was one 5 star named Dwight D. Eisenhower on the way out the door 50 years ago.  It's probably General Betrayus who is now well positioned to say "enough" to the last vestages of the Republic.  See you at the KGB "FEMA" internment camps.  

I am sick of all this "blue team" - "red team" shit.  Wise up.  They are both working for the same franchise, the one up on the hill that sends the slops down the slide which tees into the left and right congressional troughs where all the pigs feed.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 07:36 | Link to Comment johansen
johansen's picture

That is a good question, how does the US Military feel about it.

For about 3 months in the office where I worked, I had a paper printed out and afixed to the side of my desk, clearly visible to all that walked in. It said: "Save a country, hang a banker." A superior took it down, I suspect on a complaint, or by direction.

This is a topic i would prefer to discus over secure channels. for the moment i will say: perhaps one out of 50 know what is going on.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 05:09 | Link to Comment kiwidor
kiwidor's picture

Wishful thinking on your part.  One doesn't get to be a general by being independently minded or altruistic towards civvies.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 05:51 | Link to Comment kiwidor
kiwidor's picture

<duplicate removed>

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:32 | Link to Comment CIABS
CIABS's picture

it's always good to try to figure out what really happened, but this example is pretty amateurish, and for various reasons unlikely.

corzine and chris flowers did not remain tight with goldman sachs.  corzine was ousted, and flowers resigned while at the height of his powers, when someone (probably paulson) blocked him from being included on the committee that was going to manage goldman's IPO, despite the fact that flowers ran the financial institutions investment banking practice for the firm.

corzine does not come close to fitting the neville chamberlain profile of a man who is willing to utterly discredit himself publicly and permanently in order to advance a secretive agenda on behalf of his elite cronies (which is what i believe chamberlain did).  on the contrary, i believe that corzine vowed the day he was ousted by goldman to get his revenge.  i believe he aspired to become president of the u.s.  he won a senate seat but then gave it up in order to run for governor, at a time when four of the last five presidents had been governors, but none of those five had ever been senators.  after losing the election for a second term as governor, he became a wall street CEO and wanted to turn his firm into a miniature goldman sachs.  at this point he was probably angling for the job of treasury secretary.  from that position he might have revived his presidential hopes and run in 2016 to succeed obama.

things seemed to be on track, and we should ask whether he unnecessarily set himself up for what has happened, or whether what he did was not actually as risky as it now seems.  if his bets did not lose money, as he claims, then perhaps the fall of MF was more a matter of its being maneuvered into failure through regulatory moves, ratings downgrades, and margin calls.  the motive, of course, was to prevent corzine from becoming treasury secretary and perhaps president afterward.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:39 | Link to Comment strannick
strannick's picture

Maybe its as simple as his CDS didnt payout because Greece was claimed not to have defaulted. Would be awfully naive of him to think his CDS were sancrosant and automatically payable though,

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:24 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Might have been sheer narcisstic over-reach. He was lobbying for P.D. status. That is a very small, elite syndicate. They may not have much appreciated an uninvited wanna be attempting to get in on the 'pool'?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:31 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

it's always good to try to figure out what really happened, but this example is pretty amateurish, and for various reasons unlikely.

You're talking about the example you've provided right?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 03:49 | Link to Comment Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

There is also a theory that the Comex defaulted, and MF Global bankruptcy was the fix. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 08:31 | Link to Comment Sakka
Sakka's picture

Seconded, the situation with Calente seems to make sense.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment CIABS
CIABS's picture

the comex explanation is possible.  if true, it would relate to the timing of the MF failure and add a motive.  i don't believe that corzine voluntarily self-destructed in order to bail out the comex and the metal shorts.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:00 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Not by a long shot, the "American Greed" examples are tiny enough to warrant the full faith and credit of the US of A.

 

I.E. They didn't organize the heist.

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Former NJ governor Democrat Jon Corzine let his pal Democrat bill Clinton loot MF Wordlwide to the tune of $50,000 a month with the approval of the muslim democrat. Democrat Bernie Madoff would be proud.  

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:53 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

I'm suspicious of the origin of your plus one, freddie. 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:33 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

You are allowed to touch yourself, here, it is true.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:29 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Seriously. What's up with you Freddie? I'm thinking you might be of the same mold as robotrader. In house entertainment? Is that you Marla?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:52 | Link to Comment kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

how dare Keith Ellison!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Strut
Strut's picture

Please see my post here for my take on your BS

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:52 | Link to Comment WhatCouldGoWrong
WhatCouldGoWrong's picture

Commodity trading by it's vey nature is a zero sum game. When this crap first hit the news, my immediate reaction was; "whose on the other side of the trade?". I posted, at the time, my questions about the unseen machinations of this BS... and I'm still searching for an answer to the following question;

How many MFG customers were standing for delivery at the COMEX for PM's?  Were the contracts for delivery more than the available inventory? If contracts standing for delivery were more than available stocks, it would be far easier to wipe out the customers (contracts) by dissolving (blowing up) a company than admitting the system was insolvent. Easier?... it would be absolutely necessary!. Corzine might just be a good soldier doing his duty for the TPTB system. May 6th was a wakeup call to those that have assets at risk in the equity space. MFG is far more than a wakeup call... this is the horrible sceaching of ice on the hull of the Titanic. MFG is not a business failure, it is the first unraveling in a systemic failure. Beware, my friends, beware....

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:09 | Link to Comment gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

BINGO!!!!!!!     u win the prize of most illucidated  :)   

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:09 | Link to Comment Strut
Strut's picture

100% on point.

 

"who is on the other side of the trade?"

... JPM first and foremost. We already saw JPM registered silver inventory go up almost exactly the amount of "missing" 1.4 MILLION ounces once registered to MFG right before the collapse.

 

The BIG question isn't commingling, its right here in the COMEX BS under everyone’s noses. 

 

P.S. MFGI is going to get interesting too.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

WHO?? JPfuckinMorgan!!!

See this:http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog

Lock and load.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment hamstercheese
hamstercheese's picture

any post that sounds plausible and makes me think "Holy Shit!" deserves acute attention.  If you continue on your line of reasoning (the calculus equivalent of defining 'the limit' of an intregal) a generalization can be predicted...no one will be safe in any paper assets in the long run.  The money printers armed with financial engineered WMDs can manipulate the price of anything, force liquidations, steal from accounts, erode wealth via inflation and taxes....honestly, ladies and gentlemen...the hypothesis this whole financial system made of toilet paper is eroding becomes more and more plausible to me each and every day.  You will not be able to own anything, no wealth whatsoever.  And if you take physical delivery of any wealth they will outlaw it for the benefit of the common good, and if you refuse they will make an example of you. 

Enough of anonymous corporate or governmental lables...we need names...names.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 04:13 | Link to Comment 4horse
4horse's picture

take a wild fucking guess

 

corzine.paulson.bernanke.dimon.blankfein . . . mere hirelings

 

 

United States . . .  ?  . . . this is the Ukraine: fin de seicle PNAC < 20th

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 06:33 | Link to Comment PMakoi
PMakoi's picture

Zactly!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 06:34 | Link to Comment PMakoi
PMakoi's picture

DP'd

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:21 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

To quote an Irishman, I wouldn't put anything past these Fuckshites!!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:41 | Link to Comment whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

My thoughts exactly from day one !!

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:48 | Link to Comment LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Erect the gallows, lads.  Once a century or so, it becomes obvious its time to use them again.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 05:50 | Link to Comment Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Same as the US Constitution, but entire states need to do the pushing -- start by cutting uncle sams fiscal tits.

I'll take Homeland Security and Education.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:30 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

This man has been in the financial game (the top of the game) for decades, and for him to do what he did and get sand bagged bullshit.  This was done for a reason, I just don't know why.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 09:01 | Link to Comment SDS Trader
SDS Trader's picture

Seasmoke - you heard what I did - at this time, if MF Global had been able to meet the margin call or had placed a smaller version of that "repo to maturity" trade or whatever it was, they would be making money on it.

What a supreme irony.

I suppose if this conspiracy theory is true, then Corzine managed to place the ultimate hedge wrapper on that trade.

 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Jon was HUGE! He risked the solvency of a $10 Billion dollar firm AND jeopardized thousands of employees' livelihoods to make 10 million dollars, which was less than his contracted hard put clause on exit of $12 million(not quite since it would have been instantly legally challenged).

Is he really the pope of wall street without an orange jumpsuit but $500 million in a off-shore account?

I wouldn't go his bail for 90% of the total as a prime flight risk facing 20 years without his signature sweater vest and blackberry markets.

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Follow the money...all paths lead to the bank accounts of JP Morgan!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:40 | Link to Comment HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

shady liquidity in the ES is down.. hmm imagine no bids http://hedge.ly/u4r7JU

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:32 | Link to Comment DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Interesting site, now my only Libya bookmark.

My paranoid delusional mind started wondering about an 'on-purpose' tank job from day one but I don't see it happening just to make a few billion. It needs to have a bigger goal like destroying market volume in the markets. If one could drop participation in the bigger markets one might be able to make real money. How much money did the winning side make on the euro trade today? It would be worth tanking a PD to get control the markets.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Melin
Melin's picture

"My paranoid delusional mind started wondering about an 'on-purpose' tank job from day one..."

Mine too but I assumed the take-down was to "prove" once and for all that you can't trust "Capitalism" cuz, see, one or two bankruptcies can bring down the whole enchilada.  Kinda like how Fast & Furious was supposed to destroy gun rights if only they could get enough guns into the hands of enough barbarous thugs.

Of course, suspicious minds would rather know the truth but in truth’s absence...

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment False_Profit
False_Profit's picture

my friends, you are thinking to small...:

http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=70

we are being played from above the top level...

Gott mit uns...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:07 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

well, if all you moonbat idiots think it was some kind of conspiracy then that's enough evidence for me that these people like Corzine were just incompetent

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 03:54 | Link to Comment Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

your drunk

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:50 | Link to Comment woggie
woggie's picture

.... and then into the Obama re-elect ops. likely they had some kind of gun to Corzine's head.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

According to the New York Times there's 200 million of this money sitting in the London office. The only reason to keep it there is to determine exactly how it got there in the first place. If this was a sting and the 200 million is from Effen Global then this was a pretty bad one. Moreover the testimony of "i really have no idea" makes no sense either cuz "the government obviously knows" so the best approach would be to "spill the beans" and start "naming names"--preferably people who tried to stop it from happening in the first place. this obviously did not happen. the only name coming up so far is "Corzine, Corzine, Corzine." And of course "Gensler, Gensler, Gensler." I sense "Clinton, Clinton, Clinton" and "Emmanuel, Emmanuel, Emmanuel" as well--but who knows. Talk about a rolodex! That's a friggin "who's who"! The Democratic Party is beyond belief lucky that they have a President who has a moral sense and has "kept the Chicago loonies at bay." I imagine something about reading those national security reports and seeing how "they" deal with threats to America...

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:18 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Well Obama did say he was going to 'raise' $1 billion for the re election. There you go....

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:19 | Link to Comment False_Profit
False_Profit's picture

you are getting warmer...

teddy>progressive party>osawatomie speech>federal reserve>barry>osawatomie speech...

it's easy to fund an election when you print the money...how was it that double entry accounting worked in the old days...that's right:

credit: misc income

debit: obama re-election campaign finance

however, gaap is dead, long live gaap!

get the picture?

"if you can't guard it with an assault rifle, it is not an asset" www.barnhardt.biz

Gott mit uns...

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:56 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Corzine placed his bets on Europe. Clients lost. UK is not playing ball with Europe. Just another shell game gone bad. I can only theorize that many accidents or suicides will begin in MSM breaking news segments. Unlike last time, Corzine's' direct/indirect team members will not walk away so freely.

Dead men can't testify, nor talk. There's no such thing as a perfect crime. The orchestrator directing the MF Global show is already known. When the remaining names are leaked on the blogosphere, there will be no where they can hide.

 

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:17 | Link to Comment Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

You might be a JPM troll.

JPM fucked MF - here:http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:36 | Link to Comment rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Isn't this post about just what robertcarlos said earlier in the day in the previous post on this topic

Post Tue, 12/13/2011 - 12:16 | 1974567

robertocarlos


Vote up!

1
Vote down!

0

"Liars. They know where the money is, it was taken by the winners of the bets that MFG placed."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/watch-jon-corzines-follow-testimony-mf-glo...

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

i agree

you don't put a high profile Democrat, New Jersey Govenor, ex Goldman Sucks turd like Corzine at the head of a company you're going to deliberately rape You'd choose a non-entity nobody from nowhere 

'The Sting' was similar to Goldman Sucks screwing AIG causing their collapse. In that case Sucks teed up the regulator to move the goalposts forcing AIG to pay out on policies monthly rather than annually. Sucks sucked AIG dry

I think MF Global looks like it was sucked dry by 'Dirty Dicky' Dimon at JP Morgan upping margin or capital requirements.. maybe they did have people the other side of the coin/trade too

...but it wouldn't be Corzine who will be benefitting as his high profile added to this huge stink will never allow him to enjoy it ...he will not be able to live this down, he's going to get crushed despite the initial 'above the law' walking free... the Grim Reeper Cometh wether it be the Law or fleeced customers

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:00 | Link to Comment tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Honest question here: if you put a non-entity into MF Global would they follow this non-entity leader into the abyss?

Another, if the commission was high enough, don't you think a scumbag like Corzine would take the flack?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:27 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

JPM's Jaime Dimon got the real dope on Geithner and Paulson's  Goldman snatch. The thin blue line is d and d, just like in old Hoboken 1954.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture
http://scripturetext.com/lline.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat repeat;" width="98%">

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:53 | Link to Comment Lore
Lore's picture

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

Short Souls.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:58 | Link to Comment WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Dude. Perfect.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:31 | Link to Comment Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

there's no poor souls in New York that's for sure... no matter how much these gambling junkies lose their pockets are still bulging with either taxpayers or their clients money despite their companies being insolvent (here's lookin at you Lloyd Blankfein)

just cut in the hogs-for-hire Democrats and Republicans and being a NY financial gangster you're above the Law ...anyone arrested yet? ...the silence of all the regulators, Serious Fraud Office and Police is deafening, all the way to the quiet as a church mouse White House

Jo Biden must be really cut up (or cut in) over his busom buddy Corzine being grilled for pissing away other peoples money ...that's standard practice in DC as well as NY

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:10 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

i always take the long on soul and souls.
outcast you could say, an historic tradition
too.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

They had no souls to lose to begin with...

Jamie & Lloyd, et al: Fictional Reserve Ponzi Scammers
They are creatures... not men.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:13 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Devil: I can give you everything you dream of. Wealth... power... fame... beautiful women... men will fear you and will obey your every command... the very sovereign governments of the earth will tremble at your power

All it will cost you is... YOUR IMMORTAL SOUL!

Bankster: What's the catch?

 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:51 | Link to Comment LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Banksters can re-hypothecate their souls at a leverage ratio of 1,000,000 to 1. 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:42 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

I can see Joel Cairo (Peter Lorre) in the Maltese Falcon now saying, "soul, what soul?"

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment roccman
roccman's picture

the effects of peak oil can no longer be papered over

 

oil is the new fed funds rate - bumpy ride ahead

 

enjoy the kill off

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment omniversling
omniversling's picture

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia : "Your next 'money' will be based on the real value of energy consumed, bought or sold, including all forms of appreciation. All systems of taxation will likewise need overhauling, such as to tax unearned income and reward actual production.   Prepare accordingly."

Quote from:

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/saudis-want-you-know-theyve-got-big...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 01:12 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

KSA becomes irrelevant past-peak.  They can go fuck themselves, basically.

And if the chips are down, they appear to have been coddled spoilt brat piece of shit arab trash for so long they've forgotten that any of the western powers could utterly kick their ass in about 5 minutes

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Mark Cuban talks about the transactional value of cash, the XONs of the world know extremely well the transactional value of motion.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:55 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

"It's not my fault, peak oil made me do it!  Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:36 | Link to Comment JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

Killing MF Global (& Lind-Waldock subsidiary) keeps small speculators out of the precious metal futures market.

 

& takes pressure off the fiat Ponzi.

 

Perhaps Corzine was pushed into it by shadowy power-brokers.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:47 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Small speculators should just stay in physical.  As I see it, the big boys only play the futures market because they can get a play...if they put that money (a billion trading ounces of silver!?) into physical they would blow up the market.  They're in the skimming game.  For us small fry I say we just accumulate.  You can speculate with physical if you really want to - just buy and sell...why even bother with the rigged game the CFTC is running?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:40 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

More like a roadblock on the now-ripped ladder of success into agent-free entry  into the transactional value of being able to pull your own free trigger with 20:1 leverage. PMs are just JPM and HSBCs silver lease program and credit-monitor-able industrial usage buyers showing up and old school.

The Corzine (Manchurian Candidate like DSK who didn't need to be prompted to whip it out and saves on the hypnotist) cruise missile was designed like 9/11 as a multi-pronged attack on the runway to free enterprise for the nobody who yearned to be free to short the MF Bank of England.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:37 | Link to Comment Dr.Evil
Dr.Evil's picture

No matter if it was intentional or not , Corzine should be the poster boy (hang em) for the OWS crowd!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:44 | Link to Comment Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

no such luck..OWS sucks Obama/Biden dick...Corzine and Soros are their fellow travelers...FUCK OWS hypocrisy

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Strut
Strut's picture

 

Your still suckling on the tit of disinformation. Quit watching Fauxnews. Their message is meant to divide us, and therefore conquer all sides.  OWS may not have their shit together, but they are nothing but a product of our failing system. At worst some are victims of political insurgency, or simple ignorance, just like the original Tea-baggers. I say anyone who doesn’t at least resonate with their message, has yet to wake up, still suckling on the “tit” with the rest of the sheeple. 

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:32 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+1 on "disinformation"...

Did you see the photo of R(D)ick Perry taking that foot long bigger than Michelle Bachmann??

Classic R(D)ick Perry

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Strut
Strut's picture

 

Thanks for that, I had not seen that one.

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:31 | Link to Comment markar
markar's picture

Perry allegedly has a lot of experience with that maneuver. Probably more than Bachmann

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

No. Jamie Dimon,fool. Oops, I meant troll.

See this, punk:http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:38 | Link to Comment pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

didn't the losses come from declining value of italian and other sovereign debts?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

As I understand it the trade never went sour...it just got perceived to be riskier and it was margin calls that sunk MFG by eating cash faster than MFG could liqidate assets.  By the time the white knight buyer was in the picture they'd already screwed the pooch by comingling customer funds...too late.

That repo to maturity may well be intact to this day.  Owned by Soros at a nice discount...but intact :)

Sheer speculation of course :)

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:06 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

if true...i doubt that it is btw...that would mean 'the commingling had been going on for a long, long, LONG time.' moreover "it's going on pretty much everywhere." can't wait for the bank failure!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:17 | Link to Comment wattsnotsaid
wattsnotsaid's picture

I read in Monday NYTImes a similar thing- regulators who initially endorsed MFG's plan got nervous and increased the capital cushion requirement to $200M.  Then S&P and Moody's downgraded it, despite having earlier endorsed the plan, and the stock went into free fall.

The NYT  concluded with "As of today, none of the foreign debt securities that MFG used has defaulted". "There actually were no losses"

Sounds like a regulatory problem.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 19:20 | Link to Comment Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

 Nope. JPM fraud.

See this:http://www.myspace.com/tom_heneghan_intel/blog

 

U might be troll.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Conax
Conax's picture

I didn't know until this day, it was Don Barzini all along.

 

Maestro- if you please..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWqKPWO5T4o

 

JPM

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:39 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

,,,gee you think they stole the money...? we are the sheeple...!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:40 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

The DTCC should be able to clear this up. 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:41 | Link to Comment bwgnr007
bwgnr007's picture

Yes it was premeditated ...   all Roads lead to ROME.... just as Legatus 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:44 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

Is that a neighborhood in tel aviv?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:43 | Link to Comment catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

Yes. It was.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:43 | Link to Comment Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

If I could break all laws and steal a billion dollars in broad daylight and then play dumb and not get in any trouble I still wouldn't do it...but I'm not a theif like Corzine.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Conax
Conax's picture

+1

Will Rogers once said he'd rather be the man that bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man that sold it. 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:45 | Link to Comment jesse livermoore
jesse livermoore's picture

gary gensler will get to the bottome of this..............lol

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

It's hard to get a full-days work done when you can only come out after the sun has gone down.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Corzine learned the lesson of Bernie Madoff. Steal the money *before* the final crash. Then play the Sgt Shultz defense at the hearings -- "But Col Klink, I knoooow noooothing."

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Robslob
Robslob's picture

I'll take "something more" for $500 Billion Alex!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:46 | Link to Comment PSEUDOLOGOI
PSEUDOLOGOI's picture

Tyler, 

this is for you:  http://www.cnbc.com/id/45659547  there have been many posts on ZH that pretty much predicted this... Enjoy!

 

Oh, and I'm completely shocked, just SHOCKED that home sales were double counted and now must be revised down...

I wonder if property taxes gonna be revised down too? Hahahahaha

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Robslob
Robslob's picture

They won't be...just like "short sells" or bankrupt auction properties don't count when deriving average home price in your neighborhood.

Definition of a ponzi - 1 man enter 2 men leave...

Mad Max would be disgusted

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

How the f do you double count? Yeah, i want my property tax cut in half!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

Soros .

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:48 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture

TOWNES VAN ZANDT - THE COO COO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtW108oGyhY&feature=bf_prev&list=AVGxdCwV...
.
Townes Van Zandt - Mr Gold and Mr Mud (Live at the Old Quarter)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkkNtU8VmU0&feature=autoplay&list=AVGxdCw...

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Hansel
Hansel's picture

Who would possibly want to take the money of commodity speculators (e.g. gold bugs) and funnel it into Euro sovereign debt... other than every central bank in the world?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

no wonder! he was "bucking promotion" to become the next Treasury Secretary!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:20 | Link to Comment Danielvr
Danielvr's picture

..Exactly! What better way to discourage people from taking their money out of stocks, bonds and fiat into the safety of commodities, than by destroying the commodities market.

(and however nefarious, there's also the upside that this may keep commodity prices from exploding, which would have hit the world's poor the hardest). 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:27 | Link to Comment azusgm
azusgm's picture

Reason enough to buy physical...frequently.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Stanley Lord
Stanley Lord's picture

This is the kind of article that makes ZH lose credibility.

Corzine might as well had a mask and a gun, he stole, but he is protected, and he will be pardoned.

The derivitives market is way bigger than the commodity market, there is no one trader on the other side.

Stop dreaming up scenarios and stating them as fact.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:15 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Well you've convinced me, genius.  (sarc)

Hey do you have a link to your blog?  I'd love to read more of your insight (more sarc)

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:49 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

No, he is right, but for the wrong reasons.  MFGs prop trading----which sunk the firm---was not a zero sum game.  MFG bought Italian debt.  The debt fell.  MFG lost.  Whoever sold to MFG was completely out of the game when Italian debt fell.  They did not gain anything any more than you did when Italian debt fell.  They no longer owned it.

There is nothing to "prove" to you.  All that is required is an understanding of the difference between futures/commodity markets and spot markets.  One is a zero sum game, the other is not.

 

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:56 | Link to Comment ReactionToClose...
ReactionToClosedMinds's picture

Having read chindit13 for a long time .... I would advise most to follow this articulation over most others.

 

Also, conspiracy theories and conspiracies .... are great reading & great 'explainers' but rarely real .... especially in financial machinations.     People (human beings) notoriously do NOT follow 'scripts' ....which blows out conspiracies.   So enjoy the 'story' but my guesstimate is that chindit13, unless more information comes out, which it may, is more right than wrong

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 22:54 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Thanks, Chindit13.  I rushed to judgment; my mistake.

Like the poster below I am a fan of your comments.  Keep it up & thannks again.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:33 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

There is any number of traders on the other side. Soros and JPM are already admitted beneficiaries. This is far from dreaming in case you had not heard commingling is a crime. Lieing in front of Congress is a crime. Violating Sarbox is a felony. All are already comitted by Jon Corzine. Puzzle me this Lord Stanley Cup. Why would a smart guy like Corzine buy Italian sovereign debt in the first place knowing all the risk it entailed? Hint: It wasn't about an extra 2-3%.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 03:43 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Lots of "smart guys" like Jon Corzine make mistakes in markets by being on the wrong side.  Sometimes "smart guys" have egos and rather than admit they were wrong, they double down.  Sometimes they triple down.  When it continues to go against them, they panic, because the most valuable thing they have---their ego---is on the line.  Under those conditions, it is not surprising they might overstep the bounds of legality.

I suspect Corzine believed Italy was TBTF and that the EU (or the Fed or IMF) would balk in the face of a potential meltdown and come in to backstop the country.  I suspect he was counting on a continuation of everything that has happened since 2007, which is to say endless bailouts.  I doubt he felt Italian debt had value on the basis of cash flow projections or on the willingness of Italians to accept austerity measures.  Probably Corzine had "made calls" and come to the conclusion that the authorities would step in.  He called the wrong people and made the wrong assumptions.  It seems (though innocent until proven guilty) he panicked and broke the law in order to fund his disastrous position.

At first I believed he would get away with it, having membership in the Ole Boys Club which tends to overlook these kind of indiscretions provided no major player was hurt.  Unfortunately for him, he is now dealing with egos even larger than his own:  Congressmen who now believe Corzine lied to them.  They will want to teach him a lesson.

He might not do hard time, but I'd be willing to bet he is going to do Mike Milken sort of time.

Better take his passport.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 09:03 | Link to Comment Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

You have little to no understanding of his trade because it was so over the top. Including the amount of leverage he placed on the Italian debt trade and the fact that the trade only had to move a few percentage points against him to ruin the trade indicates something beyond stupid. No one besides Corzine would have placed this trade with Italian debt knowing what was unfolding in Europe to begin with and then he makes it so insane on top of it all with the amount of leverage.

I predict he will not serve time because this administration does not enforce the rule of law.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:34 | Link to Comment rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

"The derivitives market is way bigger than the commodity market, there is no one trader on the other side."

Is not the same thing as saying the traders on the other side are unknown and unilimited. There may be more than one. But who the counterparties are can be determined. If there is nothing to hide than there is no reason not to look right? Size does not affect the ability to trace the transactions. There are probably few but larger transactions, and easier to analyse. I have been amazed at the ability of DTCC to go back years and produce the details of several year old transactions when it suits them.

 

In your favor, I forgot to mention. I lean towards the unauthorized trading explaination. I worked for a commodities firm where the branch manager got in trouble with some compulsive unauthorized trading. You would never have guessed it if you had know the man.

 

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:45 | Link to Comment njdoo7
njdoo7's picture

How is presenting something as a thought experiment, as the title clearly presents this theory, equivalent to stating as fact?

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 03:02 | Link to Comment Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

I disagree about the credibility part.  I agree with the "he is protected" part.  Corzine is one of "the People" aka - not a serf or a "citizen" of the United States.  He doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of any crime and will not be charged.

 

Why do you think they refer to him as "Governor" or "Honorable".  He'll walk, bet the ranch on it.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Well sure, why not, but.... prove it.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 21:59 | Link to Comment SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

It would be more shocking to find out there was no corruption.

 

The banksters make the rules, the banksters break the rules.  

 

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:00 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Interesting theory.

Lets see who is on the other side of the trade and their associates.

I suspect Corzine was just another really smart guy who thought he was smarter than he actually was.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:00 | Link to Comment DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

Occam Razor.  Corzine was a greedy SOB and he raided customer funds.  Far easier explanation, and less steps than the conspiracy theory.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Never assume conspiracy when simple incompetence and stupidity can explain it.

However all my previous successful conspiracies looked like accidental incompetence and stupidity, so if I figured out that looking stupid and incompetent makes intent hard to prove, then corzine probably knows that too.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:39 | Link to Comment alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Occam Razor. Corzine was a greedy SOB who engaged in a conspiracy to raid his costumers accounts and transfer the loot to himself and co-conspirators.

Conspiracy is the most common crime on earth. Financial conspiracy is the most common of the common. Why, then, would anyone be so loath to believe that this was a conspiracy to steal money?

What is a conspiracy? Definition: In the criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to break the law.

Is it not possible that Corzine and two or more people planned this? If so, then THAT IS a conspiracy.

A conspiracy THEORY is merely an event explained by "conspiracy". The use of the term "conspiracy theory" has been made to turn the definition on it's head. To make people ashamed for suggesting such a thing when often times, the only logical explanation to a crime is that it was a conspiracy. The suggestion of which is the "theory".

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Flammonde
Flammonde's picture


 Journal For the Protection of All Beings, 1961) By Gregory Corso and Allen Ginsberg

 

Gregory Corso: What is your department?

William Burroughs: Kunst und Wissenschaft.

Gregory Corso: What say you about political conflicts?

William Burroughs: Political conflicts are merely surface manifestations. If conflicts arise you may be sure that certain powers intend to keep this conflict under operation since they hope to profit from the situation. To concern yourself with surface political conflicts is to make the mistake of the bull in the ring, you are charging the cloth. That is what politics is for, to teach you the cloth. Just as the bullfighter teaches the bull, teaches him to follow, obey the cloth.

Gregory Corso: Who manipulates the cloth?

William Burroughs: Death

Allen Ginsberg: What is death?

William Burroughs: A gimmick. It’s the time-birth-death gimmick. Can’t go on much longer, too many people are wising up.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:01 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Didn't Soros end up with the Italian bonds? 

Wouldn't shock me. He is the shadiest MFER on this planet.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:37 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

They don't call Soros "The Black Hand" for nothing!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:03 | Link to Comment tao400
tao400's picture

Oh come on, Corzine, a gazillionaire, would never risk putting himself in the position of going to jail. He fucked up. End of story.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:12 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Yeah, tell that to Raj Raj......

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

But it's not about the gazillions, it's about the massive ego. You know, master of the universe and all that.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:04 | Link to Comment dwilso39
dwilso39's picture

Of course it was a set-up; execpt I BELIEVE corzine didn't know anything about it.  He was set-up be his JP Morgan buddies the left him holding the bag.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:06 | Link to Comment SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

Jim Willie thinks it was premeditated in order to prevent a COMEX default- that 2 major longs were preparing to stand for delivery- so MF Global was taken out, and their longs were frozen and then liquidated rather than being allowed to stand.  The game goes on.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:14 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

this is actually a very interesting theory. having said that i thought most of the victims were in the ag business and "they were pissed off because the prices had fallen" which was the reason to hedge in the first place. of course "the price of their dollar fell more." To "zero" to be exact. Oh, well. That's what you get for beating the market. "Cozrine will make you pay for that." I mean..."who the phuck are you to be smarter than him!" right?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 23:41 | Link to Comment rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Interesting point, the victim angle. But isn't that the media version? Made for consumption?

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Haole
Haole's picture

"Things do not happen.  Things are made to happen." - John F. Kennedy

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 00:41 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

“In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.”

-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 22:07 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

This is where the presumption of innocence should be suspended.

We all know that poiticians are liers....ALL of them.

We know bankers of scum.  Most of them.

Hedge Fund and derivative players are psychopaths.  Almost all.

Goldman Sach CEO's are all the above.

So...let's see.  Corzine was the....

CEO of Goldman Sachs.

CEO of MF Global

State Senator of New Jersey and left 1 year early to become....

Governor of the State of New Jersey.

Yep....why does anyone not think this guy is AUTOMATICALLY lying every time he opens his mouth?

I'd rather let all those terrorist and so-called terrorist go in Guantanamo just to make room for everyone needed to torture the truth from this guy and then leave him there forever in his own shit.

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