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Was The "Collapse" Of MF Global Premeditated? A Conspiracy Theory Thought Experiment
Derivatives, unlike stocks where the equation has always been murky, are for the most part zero-sum products: one's gain is someone else's loss (net of commissions) unless of course the entire system collapses in a daisylinked chain reaction (think AIG). And MF Global's bankruptcy, by dint of being a derivatives broker, and the resulting massive losses to both shareholders and clients, means that some entity, on the other side of all these failed bets, made off like a bandit. Which bring us to a rather disturbing theory proposed by Walter Burien of CAFR1.com who has floated the rather the chilling idea, and what some may call an outright conspiracy theory, that by scuttling MF, Corzine effectively helped some shell company (or companies) which were controlled by a "cabal" of his closest confidants (we will let readers come up with their own theories who the former CEO of Goldman Sachs may have been close with) to make the offsetting profit that resulted from the accelerated and massive losses borne by MF's stakeholders in the vicious liquidation. As Burien says: "A government and media cover up would just focus on MFG's loss. A true and open investigation would be focused on "who" took the other side of the coin; the profit." And now that we know that Corzine allegedly lied to the Senate, just how much deeper does his transgression go, and did his really hand over the company on a silver platter to some anonymous "Hold Co" by taking on massive risks he knew were going to blow up in his face, albeit knowing the "other" side of the trade would compensate him for it? After all, Corzine's legacy may have been forever tarnished, but if there was one thing the man knew after all those mostly successful years at Goldman, it was risk. So did he really blow up MF on a idiotic risk miscalculation bet within two years of joining, purely by mistake, or is there something more?
From CAFR1
"Collapse" of MF Global?
Corzine is a thief. He lost by trading activity the house's (MF GLOBAL) money to the tune of a billion dollars and then dipped into the client's money for 700 million dollars (almost a 2-billion dollar loss). It is the #1 criminal infraction that can be committed in the commodity futures market by using client's funds for a house posistion and with something of this magnitude the CFTC would have gotten an arrest and seizure order against Corzine from day-one when discovered if it was for other than the politically connected Corzine.
Here is the BIG point that needs to be immediately passed on to the public. In a situation like this the "loss" to MFG is just one side of the coin. The other side of the coin is who made the profit that counter balances with the loss.
If Corzine had this set up as an intentional sting operation, in advance a shell trading company is established and for example purposes we will call it Hong Kong Trading Partners LTD. (HKTP) held in Singapore. The sting goes like this:
As Corzine through MFG takes a derivative futures market position HKTP takes the exact corresponding opposite position tit for tat to what MFG is entering into. The market goes against MFG creating a loss but now the equal profit is growing in HKTP.
MFG increases their position and HKTP likewise does the same and the market again goes "against" MFG and "for" HKTP.
Now for the play-out of the sting. It is announced MFG has taken this large position with their own funds and also did the primary no-no of using client's funds to back it.
Well, procedure is clear in this type of situation: "Forced liquidation of all positions held by MFG"
What this does is give HKTP the liquidity to get out of their position from MFG's forced liquidation without causing an adverse movement to HKTP's position when being liquidated. MFG's forced liquidation is HKTP's volume needed to get out of their position and lock in their profit. Wealth transfer complete; MFG and a few of their clients decimated, and none outside of the sting are the wiser if no one carefully looks at who was playing the other side of the position against MFG.
If Corzine and a few of his buddies set up a sting as noted above, as far as they are concerned, they did not loose 1. something billion dollars for MFG and MFG's clients, what they did was they transferred 1. something billion dollars to themselves through a shell global trading company(s).
In most cases when a sting like this plays out it is not just one shell company used to play the other side of the coin, usually it is spreed out between ten or more shell trading companies.
A government and media cover up would just focus on MFG's loss. A true and open investigation would be focused on "who" took the other side of the coin; the profit.
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when you are leveraged 40 to 1 the money never existed to begin with, just the bet. The counter-parties didn't like your bets and force you to pony up some more margin because they are of high risk. Though I'm sure JPM forced the destruction because they could it was ultimately corzine's dumbass who made them implode being leveraged so much, that's my initial thought anyway. I'm not sure why they just didn't sell positions if the market didn't move against them as they claim.
Does the famous section 1.2.5 allow them to gamble on margin on sovereign debt with customer funds? If so, then couldn't customer funds go bye bye pretty quickly?
To ask it another way: If you wanted to gamble away customer funds but remain completely within the law, how hard would it be?
I just finished watching Jon Corzine’s follow up testimony on the MF Global scam. Man this makes no sense. Money is moved electronically not physically. How the hell does $1.2 billion go missing and the CEO, CFO or COO have no idea where it went? Perjuring yourself seems normal now. Reverse wire transfers exist, if this is all done elctornically Im going to assume the counter parties can easily be traced and accounted for. I’m beginning to get convinced this might have been a planned grand larceny. The DOJ and the FBI are not even coming to the forefront of the investigation effort.
The winners don't have to be direct counterparties to MFG positions. Portfolios designed to move inversely to the damage/fallout of an MFG collapse would do just fine. And be much harder to detect.
Please forgive my ignorance but could you please explain? In my mind I'm imagining at the most basic level of how money is moved through banks. For example if a third party not directly on the opposite side of the trade with MFG had an inversely designed port that moved in their favor with the collapse of MFG how could funds from MFG enter their hands?
They wouldn't necessarily. I was speaking to the fact that winnings wouldn't have to come directly through MFG for someone to profit by knowing MFG was going down before the fact.
a' la Chanos and Lehman? Chanos' approach to busting the bank to cash in on his big bag of Lehman shorts was simplicity at it's best - he (his fund) simply wrote billions in puts against Lehman stock and the market reacted like someone was `bout dump 4 times the total number of Lehman shares outstanding
The FED, through JPM (et otres) has been doing this to the silver and gold markets for decades.
Did MFG clients have routed MFG bank accounts? If not MFG may not have required wire transfers or customer authorization for every tap on client assets - they could have had some kind of fine print "power of attorney" release all mushed in with the legalese foot notes nobody really reads to set set up a trading account.
There could be one way around a wire or clearing transfer (guessing). Suppose JPM was also an MFG client (or MFG was a JP client?) - then moving assets requires no more than a journal transfer. Perhaps a fuzzy disclaimer allowing MFG power of attorney was embedded in the (yawn) foot notes of their client agreements is the out so desperately sought through this new round of circumstantial victimization claims Easy with capital and transfer assignments in the small print - but how to transfer a lien, or (re)pawn a futures contract that is held by someone else , as Celente (and others) are alleging, is beyond imagination - unless the market for the underlying breached some kind of double secret trigger mechanism.
This may explain why Cameron's after shave hinted day old "hot" tuna with just a dash of back-alley-shadow-banking-bukaki-sauce while he pretended to explain his reasoning for the veto to the commons so it did not appear like he was a butt-boy for the UK's renowned shadow banking industry.
Few daze back a ZH commenter posted the obvious - eg, that 1.2 Billion is pocket change and could have easily been papered over) - just go to the repo window and get a loan to, let's say, "pay stock dividends" or whatever boxes typically checked off in the loan application.
JPM touted 2500 gold before year end, and the Soros, who was part of this little ménage à trois, made his wealth rigging markets so his short USD positions "always" paid off. Under normal circumstances open eyes would read JPM's forecast as a short signal. What if JPM, noting all these fiduciary failures seem to hit the wire just around contract expirations, was it's best customer - and - like MFG - followed it's own bad advice - and held just one too many long positions in gold?
It is so banana republic embarrassing to live in a culture where the media belches rumor as fact like a cow chewing GMO cud - only to - minutes later - and only after the mullets took the bait - retract it.
Interview with EU PM:
Q: Are you considering bailout proposals.
A: Yes
Market News Provider headline:
EU and Germany have agreed to ECB bailout.
Market News Provider headline (5 min later):
The EU and Germany have only agreed to who will pay for lunch - we are workig to understand where the earlier rumar regard a bailout agreement came from/
The judiciary needs to examine the other side of those trades - it pure bullshit otherwise - also - very fortunate, indeed, for the very special courtiers walzing in the halls of the Global Usury, that UK shadow banking industrialists have the very light of foot Cameron as their fairy godmother in shining armor.
Some catastrophic structural failure has occurred. There are cracks everywhere - a 1.2 Billion co-mingle pig in a poke ain't shit n the scheme of things - so many cracks everywhere that pinpointing the prospective epicenter is most difficult. Someone, something fucked up real bad - and it ain't no little 1.2 Billion buck heist - this may be the "Something Big is going to Happen" Dr. Paul warned us about/
Stay tuned folks - prepare yourselves to cross that allegorical epochal threshold old testament style - the Phoenix is about to hatch and take flight. Prepare.
Billions of dollars get laundered every day, disappearing down one rathole and out another, through dozens of bank accounts for shell corporations with multiple beneficial owners who each have dozens of other shell corporations, holding companies, trusts, etc etc. A forensic accountant's nightmare. This is a perfected art. That money is long gone by now. Hell it's been over 10 years now and they still haven't figured out who bought all those AMR puts the day before 9/11.
Hell it's been over 10 years now and they still haven't figured out who bought all those AMR puts the day before 9/11.
Between August 26 and September 11, 2001, a group of speculators, identified by the American Securities and Exchange Commission as Israeli citizens, sold “short” a list of 38 stocks that could reasonably be expected to fall in value as a result of the pending attacks. These speculators operated out of the Toronto, Canada and Frankfurt, Germany, stock exchanges . . .
It is widely known that the CIA uses the Promis software to routinely monitor stock trades as a possible warning sign of a terrorist attack or suspicious economic behavior. A week after the Sept.11 attacks, the London Times reported that the CIA had asked regulators for the Financial Services Authority in London to investigate the suspicious sales of millions of shares of stock just prior to the terrorist acts. It was hoped the business paper trail might lead to the terrorists . . .
Lynne Howard, a spokeswoman for the Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE), stated that information about who made the trades was available immediately. "We would have been aware of any unusual activity right away. It would have been triggered by any unusual volume. There is an automated system called 'blue sheeting,' or the CBOE Market Surveillance System, that everyone in the business knows about. It provides information on the trades - the name and even the Social Security number on an account and these surveillance systems are set up specifically to look into insider trading . . .
Investigators from numerous government agencies are part of a clandestine but official effort to resolve the market manipulations There has been a great deal of talk about the insider trading of American stocks by certain Israeli groups both in Canada and Germany between August 26 and the Sept.11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
Government investigators have maintained a diplomatic silence about a Department of Justice (DOJ) probe of possible profiteering by interested parties with advance knowledge of the attack.
The matter still is under investigation and none of the government investigating bodies -including the FBI, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and DOJ -are speaking to reporters about insider trading. Even so, suspicion of insider trading to profit from the Sept. 11 attacks is not limited to U.S. regulators. Investigations were initiated in a number of places including Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom, France, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, Switzerland and Spain. As in the United States, all are treating these inquiries as if they were state secrets.
http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a048.htm
The SEC's response to a recent FOIA request was that they no longer had those particular transactions on file. SEC did not deny that transactions took place (the puts were traded - cause I have have a chain related to pre 911 AMR trades) - but the chain history don't have no info on the counter parties.
They could have been righteous trades - the economy, thanks to the false flag genocide effort got a temporary reprieve until 2008, was bout to do a Keynesian implosion - thank g*d for the alchemy that turns blood to gold(!).
The issue is the secrecy that seems to be protecting the counter parties. Noting one WTC leasee that was flagged out of "our bestest friend in the middle east" broke their lease and forfeited a 50K deposit to skedattle out of the Asbestos condemned, but under waiver when Larry took over the WTC a week before the reports of vans with bombs on the GW bridge was quickly muffled by the lame stream. That company moved to Houton TX - which - to be sure - must give lots of comfort to bayou city residents.
from "well GET THE MONEY then!!!!" to "where did you get that money again?" to "from the guys who outsmarted the market and protected themselves from exactly what we told them would happen." to "Oooops." Just like that. In other words "it's more comedy, really." Think "Keystone Cops" meets "30 billion dollars just lying around."
Embezzlement is always premeditated. Don't think for a second that investment brokers don't think about what they can get away with, and how to do it. This is gambling that we're talking about, not active, personal participation in a business.
http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/the-daily-climb-2/
dig a hole and fill it with gold may be a money tree will grow.... do you think they really belive that some times I wonder.
To me one of the sickest things about Corzine is that he grew up on a small farm in Illinois, so he knows how hard farm life is, yet he screwed over all these small farmers while seemingly having no real concern about it. Textbook Sociopath.
You know in gangland they call that the ol bustout.... Perhaps the cabal has a life insurance policy on Corzine...
Holy crap Tyler, I get more respect for you everyday. I thought only a handful of us "fringe loonies" where aware of cafr1.com existance. Kudos for being well read.
re-hypothe con-trol fraud e us-forni cation osi o sious, sing along..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-Z0SSyUcw
.
jon reduced to a fall guy. sad but consistent with
the order of the day, perfectly symmetric as events
of import turn out. you could sing it, choiresk, it
is so harm-one-ous. harmonious.
The USA only exports dollars now. It is the most important trade. They will buy anything from any country to get the dollars floating around. Then all those countries can use the dollars to buy all the resources that ALL trade in only US dollars........If the US exports anything the money comes back and they don't want that. It's much better if the US is the buyer and the money goes out to the world. When the US stops buying..........the music stops!!!!!! High oil prices (and other commodities as well) get more US dollars out there. Make no mistake.........commodities will go higher in price....especially food.
Well, if we are going to go for a conspiracy, this doesn't seem that compelling.
1) Corzine already has half a billion. Would he really try to do this knowing that everything including him will be picked over?
2) He and his Goldman cronies must have plenty of other ways of extracting money from the DCNYCLONDON fraud machine.
What about some alternative lines of thought?
a) Did MFG's precious metal positions matter in the grand scheme of things? Do all the Celentes add up to anything that the Morgue has to worry about?
b) If so, could others have set up Corzine just to close down the Celentes and their positions?
c) A different possibility: Maybe some other guys under and around Corzine set him up. They set up the "Hong Kong companies" then leaked some info that set up the "run on the bank".
Dunno. Just thinking out loud.
why was it that the phrase btfd was so wide spread?
Just B.T.F.D.!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g10kNyuLuF4
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caaaandy ... pomo pomo pomo pomo....
not sure if this has been posted on zerohedge or not but I just stumbled upon this:
"
CONFIRMED: The Trillion-Dollar Lawsuit That Could End Financial Tyranny"http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/995-lawsuit-end-tyranny
The lawsuit is linked with the 2009 case where two Japenese guy got caugh with 100 billions worth of US bounds.
Maxter,well done.keep following.
If I told you the amount was closer to 40 Billion...
How about JP Morgan was beind this planned takedown as the investors (like Celente) were going to close contracts for physical. And they don't have that physical (surprise!). It was the money as much as they stole the ability to close for physical for 1000's of future's traders. Yes, reserves are that low...
Guys, we are closer than ever to a COMEX default - MF Global's intentional takedown was how to avoid it. Pretty drastic eh? You haven't seen anything yet...
How do you know anybody was going to take a lot of delivery? Where are these PM vigilantes? I've been waiting all year for them.
No No No its never that easy. I doubt this was about someone on the other end of the trade. It would never be that simple, has to be much more complicated that that. This is what it was about...
So Corzine's trades will turn out to have been good trades. Part of his exoneration defense. It was a run on the banks that took it down, watch for it.
He never "intended" to comingled funds. He never instructed, knew about, etc. If that did happen then it will be a he said she/he said and no one will ever prove it, and he will deny it to the death. But he will point to the fact that his trades would have made money. And he will be exonerated.
If it was thru rehypothication (most likely although i still don't totally understand all the rules there and i don't think many do) that would make the most sense. It would be totally legal (under current laws) and his trades would have made money, thus he is off the hook. (Why would Soros and JPM take over those trades if they were bad, that was part of the set up)
Now to who makes money.
The squid (or similar) wanted to blow up MFG and get the practice on the front pages. Get everyone to know what it was. I heard about it hear a week ago, then yesterday Pim Fox read the definition off wikipedia on the radio, and so on it goes into the main stream media.
This in turn blows up others eventually. And the bets have long been placed. We will see who blows up, and who was on the other end of those trades, and thats how it was played.
Corzine doesn't let it happen unless there is a way for him to walk away unscathed. And he will. So look to where this is going for the perp, because thats where the truth lies.....
This was an organized crime and with the current attorney general there is a good chance Corzine can get away with it. Face it if Mazillo is still walking around free then anything is possible. Sarbox was violated and this is a felony, commingling is unlawful yet he may slide on a technicality here, and lieing before Congress today about the 150 mil loan against client accounts only days before the collapse indicates he knew. Corzine is a criminal and if he is not brought to justice then all of our brokerage accounts are at risk of being stolen. I would go after him under RICO.
Corzine is trying to find a patsy in MF Glogal to take the fall. It's taking a few weeks to makeup the evidence.
Jon is the chosen patsy. However, the leak will expose the true criminals involved. Be patient and enjoy the show.
Gensler is involved up to his eyeballs.
The longer he waits to come clean the worse it is gonna get.
The CME isn't happy he put them on the hook for the $1.2 billion, although the CME shouldn't have allowed MFG to operate at all.
Corzine eats shit.
Capital punishment is warranted.
OT:I take my conspiracy with a grain of salt but HOLY FUCK $1T lawsuit
http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/995-lawsuit-end-tyranny
Edit: Start here with the 134 billion in "fake " bonds http://cryptogon.com/
This is way cool, its just impossible to know what is real anymore...
Excellent post.Someone is getting closer.
Benjamin Fulford and his silent Chineese backers are getting very close. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvPDEMcvum8&feature=share
check-it in English http://divinecosmos.com/start-here/davids-blog/995-lawsuit-end-tyranny
Last one, this shit is awesome
THE CABAL IS FIGHTING TO THE BITTER END But first, we have to let the old system collapse. These guys are not going to go quietly into the night. They are threatening war still. They are still trying to attack Iran. I’ve had reports now that they are planting nuclear bombs in the seabed off the shore of Tokyo to create another tsunami here. DW: Jesus. BF: They’re up to all sorts of nasty stuff. And we have to stop them. WHAT ABOUT THE PENTAGON CONDUCTING MASS ARRESTS? DW: Now you’ve said before that one of the enforcement arms that could come into play, now that you’ve driven the wedge with this lawsuit, is the Pentagon. The good guys in the Pentagon could at some point actually do mass arrests at gunpoint of, as you’ve said, I believe most of the House of Representatives and the Senate. [This is] because these guys have private accounts in the Vatican Bank and they have been bribed, right? BF: Yeah. DW: You’re [also] talking about the heads of the top five media companies that have been controlling the media to promote this agenda. These guys [in the Pentagon] are preparing to move on that at some point, right? This is some fun stuff.....Finally, someone i was looking for, a Zh er who reads BF.
So, based on above conspiracy. MFG was a trade either to strip off some cash for personal use in the west or make a west to east payoff. (Maybe interest and penalties or to buy time.)
What derivatives trades went south to support this wild theory?
Getting back to the story that seems to be being pursued by investigators most recently addressed today in ZH (here) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/jp-morgan-stock-breaks-down-news-companys-role-lender-be-probed is something along the lines that the "segregated accounts of customers" were 'violated' in some way leaving the amount short 1 billion or so dollars at bankruptcy day that fateful Sunday. (before the next business day Monday post mark to market payup - the risk of next business day contracts...etc etc)
The smoking gun scenario that seems to be coming out ever so slowly would run like this:
1) Somehow in the context of the segregated accounts there was collateral that could be accessed (legally even) to be lent out for cash,i.e., the repurchase agreement context. At the end game of the hours or day or two before the bankruptcy this is most risky to the clients since once the bankruptcy occurs they are low on the creditor list ladder -screwed.
2) If there was no bankruptcy and the next week buy out works no problem the transactions are covered and unwound.
3) But what happens is an agent to MF Global like J.P. Morgan is a link in the chain. So, the collateral is lent and the cash is on its way to MF Global via the agent (who if it were J.P. Morgan has for example a revolving credit facility to MF Global which has its own liens on MF Global moneys) when bam the buyout collapses and before the cash arrives at MF Global the bankruptcy freezes the situation.
4) So the agent link is left holding the cash much to their pleasant surprise. In one or two capacities as agent and revolving credit facility lender they may have equal or superior ranking to MF Global clients as creditots in the bankruptcy. They have the cash in hand until its wrenched out of their cold dead hands. And furthermore they may have the ability to unwind the related repurchase agreement to prevent the implosion of all the related daisy chained transactions in European sovereign or other collateral...with the blessings of the powers that be the U.S. government who would prefer Europe not have collapsed yesterday...or something like that.
This imagnary scenerio fits with Corzine saying he "did not intend" the consequences that occurred since he thought up until the bankruptcy and failed buyout it would all work out. It explains the so called 'break the glass' contingency which is undertaking the program and things don't work out. And it explains the slow uncovering of what actually happened since the ugliest possibility is that it was all perfectly legal and everyone "lucked out" as to how it went down but some farmers that never received the funds because MF Global's agent never released them to MF Global...all with the blessing of the U.S. government who see it as having averted the bigger problem of a global financial meltdown.
Well played. (irony/sarcasm) -Except if the scenario when like this not one party can claim they didn't know or didn't understand how this could play out. As financial professionals they would have to know and understand the scenario layed out above before it happened was the other possibility to it all working out. And then there is the issue of mailing bad checks which seems like mail fraud to me a federal crime I believe as well as the reported alledged reversed wire transfer which only an institution of the calibre of J.P. Morgan would probably have the balls to do if it happened.
P.S. was this derivatives fantasy just an attempt to goad me into explaining this all again hopefully more clearly - Tyler - if thats who you really are?
nos,
Verrry insightful, nos. I intuit that you may be quite close to spot on... although I think you may have overlooked INTENT on the part of that filthy British-Rockefeller financial tumor - JPM.
And now, it is time, globally, to divest those who claim ownership of the Crown, i.e., the City.
Divest them of their lives.
You bring up the interesting area of intent....I think the intent you allude to would fall under a broader rubric of who decided, intended, to end the game before it got any more out of hand? If J.P. was part of that you can rest assurred it was hand in hand with the government since they have always worked very closely together --which should be fairly well known by anyone in the interbank business.
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/12/jim-willie-jp-morgan-crashed-mf-global.html
The BEST WAY to ROB a bank is to own it!!
Somebody is confused here. (Maybe it's me, but I don't think so.)
MF Global was a commodity broker that also happened to do proprietary trading. The ongoing business and the prop trading are two different things and in two vastly different kinds of markets.
The futures/commodity trading is merely a facilitation of customers trades as a clearing and execution agent. An MFG customer, let's say the proverbial New Jersey dentist, goes short pork bellies via his MFG account. MFG executes the trade on the CME to some unknown counterparty who is a customer of another FCM. MFG has no skin in this game, and the position is funded via the customer's margin. If pork bellies go to zero, or a billion, the gain or loss is simply between the MFG customer and the other side of the trade at the CME.
MFG's prop trading was apparently a highly leveraged position in Italian debt, which is not a zero sum game. It was not a trade in Italian treasury futures, nor even a "when issued" trade. It was a straight up leveraged bet on Italian debt. Whoever MFG bought from was completely out of their own Italian bond trade when they sold to MFG. If Italian bonds fell, MFG would lose, but the person who sold the bonds to MFG suffered no effect, because they were already out of the game. There do not seem to be any CDSs associated with MFG's position, so that eliminates another chance to "partner" on a zero sum game.
There are plenty of things wrong with MFG---the post-bankruptcy sale of debt instruments to parties at below market prices, co-mingled customer funds, missing funds---but this "zero-sum partnership does not seem to be one of them. I believe the author of this article is confused, or has specific facts that are not presented in the article.
Part 8 - The Gold Rush Currency Wars
Every fucking wire transfer is assigned a Fed Wire Transfer Number. No monies could have been moved out of MFG without a wire transfer. The numbers are resident at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (from whence our Sec Treas hails) attached to the instructions as to whom sent, from whom, to what account (as in account MICR or equivalent) the amount and when.
All the information one could need to solve said mystery.
So simple even a Clue buff can do it.
There is no mystery as to where the monies were sent, only a lack of anybody looking. As in coverup. Way past palin buttfuck ignorance, folks.
Same as when Benji swore under oath about all the TARP etc., funds and said that he didn't know where they went. Truth!! Of course he didn't know each and every transfer. He Told the TRUTH!
And of course, it is from the exact records I ciite that such information became accessable and reported later by the press. After everybody said that they don't know.
Fine, if they don't know, then source the transfer data and get the information.
And nobody bothers to look for the hard data, the Wire Transfer Instructions. People holding hearings, lawyers screwing around, spectacle as in no fucking use what so ever... the circus portion of bread and circuses.
And the evil broker is the foil which takes the heat whilst the regulators and central bankers go off Scott Free.
Jesus, people!
This is a class A-1+ P-1 AAA across by all services fucking outright theft and con job being perpetuated by the villans and enablers alike.
Was it premeditated?
Fuck no, just more coincidences like everything else.
$1.5 Billions a lotta blowjobs.
And alls needed are some wire transfer instructions.
The assumptions are not valid. The other party to a contract can be very removed from MF, and most likely. For this example to work, both sides of the contract would have to be MF clients/ie connected. The other problem with the invalid assumptions overlook that both sides to a contract put up margin. And lastly, the money was not lost on the trade, contract, but taken from the account. If it had been lost, the money wouldhave gone to the winner, mostly likely an another of unknown identity or whereabouts. There are other items but you get the drift. We know many of those hurt were in regulated futures so the above applies to much of the losses.
Not the same as unloading some worthless mortgages in a swap, etc. etc.
It is a bit of a stretch to think that Corzine would have a partnership or other entity in which he had an investment directly purchase CDS sold by MFG. However, the investigators would be fools if they did not look to see what entities purchased CDS from MFG and who the owners were. Never know what you might find.
MFG was buying Sov debt (selling CDS) into a broad and deep - yet dark - market with lots of participants. No need to be crude and buy direct from MFG. They would almost certainly buy from some other seller, and absent trades on a regulated exchange, it is going to be extremely difficult to trace all the purchases and sales of Sov debt and related CDS to see if an owned entity purchased it. However, once a certain probable cause threshold is met, the Feds can discover all of Corzine's personal bank transfers, and then check to see if any investment partnerships or entities that received his personal funds sold Sov debt or bought CDS thereby establishing a countervailing position.
This is going to get very interesting.
Who got the Silver...JPM. Nuf said!
What silver? MFG was an FCM. Their customers may have held Ag positions vs. some other customer using another FCM, but this has nothing to do with MFG's collapse, which was the result of a bad bet on Italian Government debt.. You are confusing things.
As they say....follow the money.
An even better hypothetical scenario off the back of http://www.zerohedge.com/news/presenting-three-unscripted-sentences-may-... .
Keep in mind its not clear who is transferring the money around from MF Global client accts to "the firm account" it seems like MF Global is but quoting the quotes,
"No such error was ever found. Instead, at about 2 am Monday morning, MFG informed the CFTC and CME that customer money had been transferred out of segregation to firm accounts"
If it was the agent of MF GLobal like J.P. Morgan handling both the segregated client funds and coincidentally their own credit line to MF Global as well then at first they are holding the funds/collateral whatever of the clients realize their rank in the bankruptcy is improved if they decide to take the role of credit line lender (vs custodian of the clients funds) so the agent lifts the clients funds and deposits them back to the firm (MF Global) account so there is something for them to collect in the bankruptcy as the credit line lender.
Voila a prime suspect would be J.P. Morgan shuffling the billion about to their own benefit...and the reason Corzine had no clue was MF Global had no control over the funds throughout except they started the ball rolling. And Corzine only knew after the fact.
Almost comical but has a criminal stench about it. So why is everyone covering it up? Apparently J.P.M. has some clout? J.C. knew but was helpless since the intender was outside M.F. Global and was J.P.M. To admit it would make J.C. the fool wouldn't it.
Explains that "I just ate a bag of shit" look on his face too occassionally broken by his ironic smirk here and there at how far off the questioning is from what actually happened.
Corzine supposedly pressured the NJ pension funds to buy Lehman bonds just before it imploded. The question is......who is he bailing out with these losing investments?
I'm almost certain there is a conspiracy angle to the story, since a major debacle like this could not have been orchestrated by any one single individual. But the theory presented here doesn't seem likely at all. People like Corzine and his buddies wouldn't do something so stupid which would almost guarantee eventual exposure. If they just wanted to make money there are easier ways of doing it. If they wanted to be obvious, they would have had legislation passed and have Uncle Ben print up the money (like Hank Paulson did). If this was an intentional blow-up, there are other reasons behind it.
Also, I thought the money lost was due to hypothecation... I'm not sure that hypothecation is possible with futures contracts which this theory implies. Futures contracts are marked to market at least on a daily basis and the amount of collateral that contract can be used for would fluctuate violently on a daily basis (but I don't think any bank would accept a futures position as collateral, even prime brokers). If it was hypothecation, that kind of fluctuation would create too wild of a fluctuation every tier of leverage it went up. There's no way something like that can be done without attracting serious attention in very short order. Therefore, it had to have been the bonds that FCM's sometimes use as collateral in lieu of cash. FCM's will accept T-bills (with a haircut) as collateral for margin. Similar rules apply for other soverign debt securities, and it was this that was hypothecated to the Nth degree, not futures positions. The theory persented here is so weak and full of holes I'm surprised ZH posted it...
Also, the futures market IS a zero-sum game, but there's no way each individual position can be matched up with a specific opposing buyer/seller. If all open interest were unwound, as each contract does on expiration, every long and short position does match up. But the person you buy from is most likely not the person you are selling to, or vice versa. The only way this is possible is if the instrument traded was a very low liquidty contract with a wide spread and a limit order was placed between the bid/ask, which was then hit by the opposing side (the supposed shell company). But this too would be way too easy to trace. FCM's and clearing firms will regularly bust an incorrectly placed trade (for a penalty fee), and they easily track who bought against the sold position and vice versa (within MINUTES if not hours). So again, this theory seems a bit amateurish...
Honestly, my PM holdings are greater in gold than silver. Enjoy this late 2011 summer video. Understand, I bought all of my silver holdings @ $12/oz. Haven't been bothered by the media scaring me to sell.
Silver! Final Warning!
Of course on Wall St., once there's a little blood in the water the sharks come out to play. They'll take you down just for the fun of it. Profile of Corzine in NYT rang true, kind of a risk junkie without the brains to back it up. Once he was in over his head, it would have been easy to tip the scale against MFG and take the other side. No conspiracy theory required, just steroidial greed.
The MUST LISTEN is Jim Sinclair on KWN, pointing out that derrivatives have jumped the line. Derrivative positions are ahead of depositors and customers in a bankruptcy, which is totally insane. This is because an asymmetric deritivative unwind is now unacceptable to the system. That's where the MFG customer money is: trasferred somewhere and keeping those derivative contracts from triggering. That means if ANY of the unsolvent TBTF banks goes under, depositors get NOTHING back accept FDIC. And given that FDIC has no money (never did), they may not get that either. MF Global has shined a light into an unsavory world where no instituion can be trusted, even with cash. The derivatives are everything in this game: Russian roulette with financial nukes. Musical chairs is for pussies.
the gambler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q2mFiN7GIc
The answer is here http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/12/13/bloomberg_articlesLW5T6T07SXKX.DTL
This has already been covered, Jpmorgan....
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/12/jim-willie-jp-morgan-crashed-m...
Well said Tyler Durden.
The whole game was smoke and mirrors. Now we are getting some where ;-) and who would need a 'shell game' to make giant transactions simply evaporate before the 'regulators' eyes?
Yes, that is an astute question.
The 'why' hardly matters because it is clear that the perpetrators are delusional idiots with silly ideas about gods (or becoming gods) and other such tripe. But the 'Who' we would all like a crack at with our own well honed sense of revenge. At this point it is like a wood tower full of angry termites, eventually the whole thing will lose its illusion of integrity and not just one fatted CEO will be taking a very abrupt leap with out a rip cord.
Get some popped corn.
MF Global, a 200 year old commodities broker and financial firm (and every other financial institution) is permitted by regulations to hypothecate customer property as institution assets which can be used as collateral for loans. MF Global used these hypothetical assets as collateral for a loan they got from JP Morgan. The loans were used to buy distressed Italian bonds. So JP Morgan is holding hypothecated customer property as collateral for the loan. MF Global purchased insurance against default of these bonds. Unfortunately JP Morgan sits on the board (with Goldman Saks) of the organization tasked with deciding whether or not the bond default insurance pays out. Please note that GS went to Europe to tell bankers there to negotiate a settlement on the bonds that does not result in a default event. A settlement was reached that did not trigger a bond default, just a voluntary haircut. The bond insurance did not pay out since there was no default event. So the bonds MF Global purchased with the loan devalued to the point they were unable to repay the loan. JP Morgan called the loan in default and took the pledged collateral. (Opps, that was customer property, remember?) Keep in mind that all this is permitted by existing finance regulations.
You hear on the news that investigators looking into the MF Global bankruptcy do not know what happened to the customer account assets. This is a lie and a cover up. Why is the public being lied to? If the public was informed that the loss of customer property was not the result of any crime, but was the result of permitted regulations and permissible actions, then customers would not want to keep assets in the financial system. If the public withdrew their assets from the system, the system would implode.
It gets worse. JP Morgan had the means, opportunity and motive to bankrupt MF Global and take customer assets. What was their motive? Of the 150,000 accounts clearing through MF Global there were a total of more than 600,000 ounces of Silver assets which were not delivered to the customer. Shortly after the bankruptcy JP Morgan deposited more than 600,000 ounces of Silver in their recently acquired Silver depository. See
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/12/jim-willie-jp-morgan-crashed-m... and
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/11/did-jp-morgan-just-convert-614...
Why does JP Morgan want MF Global customer’s Silver? JP Morgan has sold many times more Silver via COMEX Futures Contracts than they have metal to deliver. They desperately need Silver to avert a COMEX failure to deliver default. Why have they sold many times more silver than they have? See the referenced lawsuit for details.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/another-lawsuit-filed-against-jp-morgan-si...
In a previous silver manipulation lawsuit, JP Morgan claimed immunity since they were acting as an agent of the US Government for the cause of National Security.
The short simple answer is the above lawsuit provides evidence that JP Morgan in cooperation with the Federal Reserve is trying to suppress the price of Gold and Silver to maintain the relative value of the dollar. Why? To keep Oil affordable. Why? The US economy has been designed around and is dependant on cheap oil. If Oil becomes unaffordable, the US economy crashes. Why do you think our military is all over the Middle East? Making sure Oil flows freely from East to West.
Great info, could you also explain how George Soros benefited from this MF collapse.
The non-default talk was on Greek debt and not Italian debt. It would have likely impacted the price of CDS that was trading on all debt. The question I have is why was Corzine even buying Italian debt to begin with knowing full well the risk involved. Then on top of it all he goes in with so much leverage that even a small move in price against him wipes out the firm. Sounds a little to convenient to say he just made a bad trade.
well said.
cover of ft today jpm being investigated for their role. I find it amazing these companies can engage in fraud over and over without penalty to people ornbeing broken up. rackow seems to be working on it, but it is so fucked up.
Listen, John.
Let's get ready to pull Building 7. I got your back.
Jamie
planned demolition. where does the incest stop?
i know, when the farmers are all out of business and
everyone starves ! what a financial plan/system.
it was not jon's intent to do anything other than deliver
the assets of mfg to the creditor. there is where you find
the intent, the intent to grab other peoples money while
it was on the table and they were all sleeping, not
even allowed at the table. this can't stand. we have the jail
space or can easily come up with it.
Even if a shred of this was true, we are still missing the very important part that would make this plausible. What we need is the why? part. Even if Corzine was the triggerman, what was his motive? Why do this? Who made him do it? This article and comments focuses a lot on the who and the what, but the why part is missing. If Corzine was the shooter out of the book depository, who is General Y?
MFG is the new Bear Stearns?
BTFD!