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Was The NYPD Responsible For 10 Of The 11 People Shot Yesterday?

Tyler Durden's picture


Update: Yes it was - Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers

The official media-friendly narrative explaining yesterday's latest tragic shooting incident in midtown Manhattan in which a recently unemployed Jeffrey Johnson, 58, walked up to his former boss and shot him three times point blank before "calmly" walking away, is that Johnson also shot 9 other people, luckily none fatally, before being taken down by the NYPD. Sadly, as so often happens these days, the "media-friendly" narrative is wrong, and as CBS and Guardian report, Johnson did not fire during the quote unquote shootout, in which at least nine other perfectly innocent were hit, all of them by stray NYPD bullets.

From CBS: "Police said it is unlikely that Johnson fired during the shootout." Uhm, then isn't shootout a somewhat inaccurate word? "One witness told investigators that Johnson fired, but ballistics tests don’t back that up, authorities said... At least nine other people on the street were also shot, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it is unclear whether they were shot by the suspect or police. “Some may have been shot accidentally by police officers who responded immediately,” Bloomberg said." In other words of the (at least) 11 people shot yesterday, 2 of whom fatally, the NYPD was responsible for 10 of those shot, 9 of whom were literally "collateral damage" in a non-shoot out, and should be sacrificing various animals to their assorted guns that the NYPD, in missing their designated target, is at least quite atrocious in hitting any major organs. All of which of course begs the question: is a hit-to-miss (and potentially hit-to-casualty) ratio of less than 10% for New York's finest really acceptable and is this the kind of statistic that NY City wishes to boast in enticing new tourists?

Below is a graphic complete clip of what happened around 9 am yesterday:

And some more on what really transpired via the Guardian:

Robert Asika was among those wounded, shot in the elbow from a distance of around eight feet by one of the two police officers who confronted Johnson. He accused police of "shooting randomly", and said he saw at least two others hit by police bullets.


"If you're gonna aim try and aim perfectly. If you wanna aim at the target, you got to know what you're doing because it's the street," Asika said. "I could have been dead right now. I could have been dead."


Asika was working on 5th Avenue on Friday morning, selling tickets for tour buses and the building's observation deck. He had only been in the job a week, after having been unemployed for over a year. "I was just standing there and I saw people running. I didn't want to run because I wanted to know why people were running so I turned around and I saw this guy," he said.



Police said Johnson been employed for six years as a designer of women's accessories at Hazan Imports. Kelly said during a press conference that he was laid off as part of a downsizing at the firm. Kelly described the gunman as a "disgruntled former employee" who came back to confront his former manager. "He shot and killed the former co-worker, striking him three times," Kelly said.


Johnson moved to draw his weapon, a .45 caliber handgun, as the officers approached, police said. There are conflicting reports as to what happened next. "The [police] tape clearly shows that the gunman had the gun out, and was trying to kill the officers," Bloomberg said. Other officials at the scene reportedly said the man had not fired on police.


The two police officers discharged 14 rounds, killing Johnson outside the entrance to the Empire State Building. Kelly at first said Johnson fired on officers, but police later said they were trying to determine whether Johnson fired. "These officers ... had absolutely no choice," Kelly said. "This individual took a gun out very close to them and perhaps fired at them."

He didn't. Instead he was mowed down in a cannonade of fire by the NYPD which has shot at least 9 other perfectly innocent bystanders, of whom miraculously none were killed.

Four women and five men were taken to city hospitals with gunshot wounds, but none was believed to be in a life-threatening condition. Police shut down nearby streets as forensic teams checked the gunman's body. The FBI were quick to confirm that the attack was not an act of terrorism.


Askia described the scene when officers caught up with Johnson. He said the gunman stopped six feet away from him, with two officers about eight feet in the other direction. "All of a sudden the guy stopped, and he was facing a cop who was following him," Asika said.


"He just reached in his suit and took out the gun, and I saw him pull it [towards] the cops. I'm like, is this guy for real? One of the cops was trying to shoot back at him and one of them shot me while the other one shot the guy."


"As soon as the bullet hit me, I felt like I didn't feel it. But then as soon as I tried to get up, I couldn't get up. I looked there and the blood was gushing out," Asika said.


"I was crawling, trying to get across the street, to the safe side of the street. I got across the street and I just fell at the bus stop and I was laying there and I couldn't get up no more. I was so tired, I was so scared. I've never been scared like that in my whole life."


Erica Solar, a mother of two who works as a receptionist on 37th Street, was hit in the back of the leg as she made her way to Dunkin' Donuts. Solar's friend, Christopher Collins, found her lying on the street as he got off a bus on his way to work.


"She was basically in shock. She didn't know if she had gotten stabbed or if she had gotten shot, but she just knew she was bleeding, and I was just there trying to keep her calm until paramedics arrived," Collins told the Guardian.


"It was chaotic. Everybody was running, cops were there immediately," Collins said. Solar was taken to Bellevue hospital, about a mile from the Empire State Building.


Another among the wounded was Media Rosario, from Brooklyn, who like Solar was hit in the back of the leg. She said that everything happened so fast, she saw people running, and when she turned around to see what happened, she was already shot," said her sister-in-law, Auselis Rosario.




Asika said Bloomberg visited him in hospital, but he received no apology from police.

That's explainable: the Mayor was likely distracted by his profound confusion how a deranged assassin with intent to kill was so blatantly unaware of New York City Administrative Code § 10-131 on the use of Firearms, which effectively makes any use or carrying of guns in the city of New York illegal.

Oh well, time to cut the maximum legal size of a New York soda drink by edict one more time.


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Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:49 | 2736664 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I'm telling u son it ain't no fun starin straight down a .44

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:50 | 2736666 tsx500
tsx500's picture

wow, crazy !     good thing many paralegals were sent to the scene !!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:52 | 2736669 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Reflexes got the better of me... & what will be will be...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:56 | 2736679's picture

No wonder the government needs a billion plus rounds.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:11 | 2736715 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

I know in Chicago when they report "shootings" they don't separate the gang-banger shootings from the police shootings. It is just assumed that all shootings are from "illegal" guns in the city. My bet is that the cops are at least 50% responsible for all shootings in America. 

There is a law that Congress passed a few years ago that requires reporting on police shootings, but the Justice Department has NEVER enforced the law requiring reporting (big surprise there)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:30 | 2736763 Popo
Popo's picture

I'm picking up on some heavy anti-gun messages in this piece. ZH needs to get its platform a little clearer. Anti-gun whining? Really? This must be one of the newer, non-civil-liberties Tylers.

Just to recap: Zerohedge is *for* personal liberty, freedom and responsibility. Check.

Zerohedge is *against* big brother government and the encroachment of fascism on our civil liberties. Check.

Zerohedge is for people-power and resistance to oppression. Check?

..and yet, amazingly, Zerohedge is *for* an unarmed population, unable to mount resistance of any kind to any form of armed threat.


Because we all know that if Mr. Bloomberg did actually make sure there were no guns being brandished in public, that criminals would (of course) obey the laws as they always do. < / sarc >.

No one is a bigger fan of gun control laws than oppressive regimes and criminals. (The former being the ENTIRE reason for the fourth amendment).

So, Dear Tyler, can you please clarify your position here? Is it against stupid, trigger-happy cops (ok, we're with you) or is it that guns are bad because they enable one in a million people to intentionally hurt the innocent a little too easily. (You know, sort of like those equally-evil motor-vehicle killing machines which are equally capable of marrying intent-to-kill with actualization).

Are you for or against increased government control of civil liberties, Tyler #7?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:55 | 2736787 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture





Askia described the scene when officers caught up with Johnson. He said the gunman stopped six feet away from him, with two officers about eight feet in the other direction. "All of a sudden the guy stopped, and he was facing a cop who was following him," Asika said.


Compare New Yorks's finest hit rate to a recent Texas shootout where an old man saved a cop by hitting a bad guy with his pistol 5 out of 5 times at 165 yards (495 feet).


Despite the distance Vic Stacey knew he had to take the clear right flank shot that he had with his 5? barrel 357 magnum. Vic estimated he was 165 yards out.  But as you are about to hear, that was not a problem for ole Vic.  


His first round got the double murderer in the thigh and put him down, but the guy amazingly chambered another round and got a shot off at Vic that almost got him. Vic fired four more times, got four more hits as the officer got the range and finally killed the shooter.


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:59 | 2736828's picture

Yea, old guys!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:28 | 2736917 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

We do it right here in Texas. Besides sending those pigs to the firing range, how about putting them on a diet?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:33 | 2736933 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Shit no doughnuts! You're just being ridiculous now! The union will have something to say about that.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:00 | 2736946 Precious
Precious's picture

Message to citizendum.  Maintain ammo.

You now see what a panicked police force can do to innocent people,


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:12 | 2737036 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

I'm sure the NYT, the premiere local/global source for "all the news that's fit to print," was all over this, maybe even breaking the news that 10 of 11 people were hit by police gunfire.

Oh, I see they have yet to publish a word on it. 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:36 | 2737091 Precious
Precious's picture

Bloomberg wears the boots in this town.  All 5'6" inches of him.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:45 | 2737108 nmewn
nmewn's picture

He looks larger on TV...that explains his staff of midgets ;-)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:50 | 2737124 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Hey good news.. according to a just released story about that New York shooting, the cops only shot 3 of the 9 injured innocent bystanders. The other six were just injured by “bullet fragments” from the cop’s bullets while they gunned down the perp.

It’s a good thing there is so much gun control in New York, especially by the NYPD.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:19 | 2737201 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

“bullet fragments”

wonder which PR flack came up with that meme.   betya Mikey was up all night last night doing damage control.   like having his boys talk to the doctors who pulled out those "fragments" to make sure that what they pulled out of the people were indeed "fragments".   for the good of the city of course.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:45 | 2737255 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

I wonder who got there first the paramedics or the paralegals (and yes, I mean paralegals)?  Is this an ambulance chasers wet dream, or what?  How much with NYC pay out per victim?  Anyone have a guess?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:19 | 2737277 Precious
Precious's picture

The New York Bar Association will be holding a lottery for lawyers wishing to represent the victims on a 30 percent contingency basis.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:26 | 2737337 r00t61
r00t61's picture

The damage control has already started.

"NYPD a model of restraint in use of deadly force"

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:34 | 2737348 Michael
Michael's picture

Gerald Celente - "Iceland is the only country left with fight in it" - (14-Jun-11)

Media Military Complex- Same 6 owners for Media & Defense Ron Paul coverage investigative journ pt 2

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:47 | 2737362 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Kelly was on CNN Outfront last night for a sitdown interview - which was a surprise considering how quick after the shooting - and then he went on to claim the bystanders had been injured by police but it was only fragments from objects with bullets richochetting around the place. Pretty tall tale, not surpised it isn't true. 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:17 | 2737512 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

Double standard.  Now if a citizen had fired and fragments were flying, look out for the media coverage, mayors, police chiefs, etc. talking about risking lives.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:57 | 2737575 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture


"Hype Alert Double standard.  Now if a citizen had fired and fragments were flying, look out for the media coverage, mayors, police chiefs, etc. talking about risking lives."

Bingo a citizen would be charged.  I wonder if these officers will be if not it's frankly not equal justice it's a city street not a war zone where shots can & often times are coming from all directions. There was a 65 year old lady in CA a few weeks ago who shot at some thugs robbing her chasing them out of the shop 

Newsman Jim Nash "Garden Grove police officer's say it may be the same crew but they caution store owners with guns"

"Just like a police officer, when you fire that weapon and those rounds go down range, you have to be accountable for where those rounds end up," said Garden Grove police Lt. Jeff Nightengale.

Newsman Jim Nash again at the end of the clip

" as much as those cops like seeing the bad guys having the table turned on them they still caution everybody that down range beyond the target there's always often an innocent bystander."

AMAZING: 65 Year Old CA Woman Shoots and Fights Off FIVE Armed Robbers


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:34 | 2737428 Michael
Michael's picture

If bullets are being shot on my person, I shoot back.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:03 | 2737904 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

you mean his jackboots on the throats of the citizens of NYC???

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:59 | 2738677 saturn
saturn's picture

Looks like NYPD is full of Breivik fanboys..

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:03 | 2737850 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

Not a problem, it's only collateral damage.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:41 | 2736957 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

It's the real life Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight. Jimmy Breslin would have a field day with this.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:21 | 2738023 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

I lived and worked in the streets of NYC for many years, and had numerous encounters with "New York's Finest" Not one was pleasant or productive. On one occasion rode a bicycle into the middle of a cops-and-criminals shootout on W. 47th St., jewelry district. Hid under a car while the Po Po blasted off around 500 rounds, shoooting out every storefront window on the block. Bad guys still got away. On another occasion, I saw some drug dealing going on around 103rd on West Side. Called police dispatch and she sez, "do you think they have guns"? I givvup.  

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:28 | 2737422 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

New edict.  If you can't put a round through a doughnut hole, no doughnuts through the pie hole.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:23 | 2737062 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:38 | 2737092 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Had one as a kid.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:40 | 2737097 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Those things shot lots of rounds!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:56 | 2737714 caconhma
caconhma's picture

This is what happens when NYPD officers don't differenciate between New York City and some other places somewhere in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, etc.,

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 12:28 | 2743848 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

I had that exact same one too!  I cant remember the name of it!  That thing was powered by big ass "D" batteries.  I was pissed whenever the batteries went dead. Can anyone tell me what its name was and who made it?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:55 | 2737136 JR
JR's picture

Banzai7, not only a talented artist, but the best of the world’s original idea men (and FAST!) – combined with ZH an info-boggling world class team.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:08 | 2737490 Michael
Michael's picture

This is a wake up call for public oversight of the NYPD and all PD's throughout the country.

Officers must go back to the police academy to re-learn proper use of their service weapons used in the line of duty and be recertified.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:12 | 2737592 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"This is a wake up call for public oversight of the NYPD and all PD's throughout the country.

Officers must go back to the police academy to re-learn proper use of their service weapons used in the line of duty and be recertified."

The purpose of a heavily militarized police force is spreading good old TERROR among the populace. NYPD seems to be doing rather well.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:26 | 2737675 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

RIght on forgot the last sentence though,


....and be terminated if they fail to qualify for firearm usage or fail their obstacle course test.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:28 | 2738028 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

And Field Marshal Bloomberg wants us to give up our his policia...can "protect" us. There's a reason urban police and County Sheriffs/Deputys are on opposing sides of the political fence. Stuff like this is it.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:32 | 2736930 Pampalona
Pampalona's picture

495 feet? That BS

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:20 | 2737009 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



NYPD during target practice?

"Ready, sorta aim, spray away!"

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:08 | 2737016 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



495 feet? That BS

I have done long-range pistol training, with duty/carry weapons, up to 200 yards (600 ft).  You can get the hit.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:08 | 2737908 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

bullshit...  25 years in military, 200 yards is difficult with an M16... you are not hitting that with a 38, 45, or 9 mm from 200 yards dip shit...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:44 | 2737934 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Bullshit back, you do not know what your talking about, Henry Bowman anyone.. Bueller... bet me that m16,  Drop may be 120" but hit, your damn right..

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 23:53 | 2740107 DYS
DYS's picture

You are a terrible shot.   I consistantly put 10/10 in the black at 500 yards with the M16A2.   For me, 200 standing rapid fire is the most difficult, but 500 prone is a breeze.  The weapon can outshoot me any day of the week.   25 years in the military?   Let me guess, cook in the Army?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:15 | 2737044 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The guy he hit five times disagrees with you. Hard to BS when the evidence is crystal clear.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:21 | 2737057 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Why BS? A .357 mag has the capability, it's a matter of skill. In fact, the distance involved should be a reminder that while hand guns are more often than not used in close range situations, the bullets are quite capable of traveling far outside the perceived area of operation.

Apparently, this ol' boy was used to shooting a little further down range than is common with a hand gun.

Skillz, it's what provides dinner.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:38 | 2737093 Rentier
Rentier's picture

Calls BS because he doesn't know much about shooting.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:33 | 2737226 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

This is the other reason why they need a billion rounds and are scared shitless of gun-toten' rednecks.  Good 'ole boys know how to shoot.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:42 | 2737101 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

.357 definitely has the capability. People use it in short lever carbines as a 100 - 125 yard deer round all the time. Out of a 16" barrel, it reaches up into .30-30 territory ballistically.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:29 | 2737221 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

The caliber is not the issue, it's the sight radius of the weapon.  A 5" revolver is going to have about 7" sight radius.  When you calculate it out, to hit a 3 foot target you have to be within 4/100 of an inch in accuracy with the iron sights.  Meaning if you move your front sight 4/100 of an inch, you miss your target by 3 feet at 165 yards.


Try holding a laser pointer strapped on a 7" stick on target at 165 yards in a pistol stance and you'll see what I mean by the slightest movement throwing you off target.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:06 | 2737302 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture


I don't believe it.


No evidence for Mr Old Guy only a post on the Internet (inert-net).


Most pistol ranges including police only train @ 7 yards. Most autos are useless + 50 yards (fixed barrel versions like Walther .380 and Luger 9mm excepted). Hit a target with a long-barreled revolver @ 100 yards is tough on a range but not impossible. Longer than that you need a bench and scope.


Most shooters can't hit the broad side of a barn with a shot gun if they are standing next to it. They do talk tough, however ...


Glock police 9mm autos recoil pretty hard, are awkward to handle in a hurry and aren't ergonomic. Pistols are sold to police departments make money not for any other reason. 99% of police never fire their weapon at a person.


Good thing NYPD does not use .40 cal hollow points. Probably fewer casualties (no ricochets or bullets through the body) but more severe wounds/amputations to bystanders.


This will cost the city $$million$$. New York City cops are trigger-happy. The city needs to go back to older Smith-Wesson K-38 six-shot revolvers and limit officers to 18 rounds. To hit a target and keep from being killed the officer has to aim carefully. He has to spend time on the target range. Revolvers are a lot more accurate and the K-38 is more ergonomic than an auto w/ better balance. There are millions of them in existence so it would not cost NYPD very much to switch over. 


Probably less than what paying the victims will cost.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:08 | 2737392 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

A) the police report and the autopsy back him up
B) he was firing from a supported position--using the hood of his truck as a bench rest IIRC

.357 revolvers can be spectacularly accurate pistols.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:58 | 2737983 Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture

I'll take my uncle's .357 any day over any other handgun...never jams, super accurate, and knocks out your criminal with one don't need 16 shots.

My uncle was a State trooper in the 'ole days before all these police departments decided to go with whatmy unlce calls "the sissy 9mm round."



Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:03 | 2737473 vato poco
vato poco's picture

"Glock police 9MM recoil pretty hard..."

That's all about we need to hear outta you, pard. Yeah, they *do* have quite a kick - if you're a 70-lb. 8-year-old girl. For full-grown men & women, it's not an issue at all, in my experience.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:51 | 2737564 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Give "Steve From Langley" a break.


When he isn't trolling for the Government, or chronic masturbating to child porn, his only weapons experience comes in the form of marathon sessions of COD.



Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:04 | 2737950 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture


The cops can't handle them ...

Why do you think bullets were flying all over the place instead of into the criminal?

This isn't the first time the NYPD has filled a wide area around a suspect with lots of lead.

Nuttin' macho about it, the game is to hit what you aim at, it should be easy. Not happening w/ Glock autos (unless yr just blazing away for the hell of it.)


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:11 | 2737495 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

As I understand it, most handgun encounters are at close range, although I disagree that most training is done at 7 yds. I'm "not cop, I'm little people". I practice regularly out to 25yds and have had to qualify at that distance, with both strong and weak hand.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:22 | 2737333 CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

It's not impossible.  I've bulls-eyed womp rats in my T-16 back home.  They're not much bigger then two meters.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:37 | 2737688 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Ed McGivern (who taught the FBI), famous pistol shot, did longer range shooting than that, over irons, in the 30's and 40's.  It's hard, but not impossible.

I help police re-qual. (I'm a gunsmith/coach)  Most of them cannot hit a 8x11 sheet of paper at 10 paces reliably - without stressful conditions.  We started hanging out helium baloons around the target backstop as "innocent bystanders" to make a point.

They sure do kill a lot of baloons.  When it's easy, no one is shooting back, no real danger of any kind.

An this is in VA, where it's not hard to find a place to practice.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:35 | 2738036 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

My .40 Glock23 is very "ergonomic". Like they built it to fit my hand. I can hit the bullseye anywhere inside of 7 feet. Outside that range, I'll use the M1a with a scope.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:07 | 2738578 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

Sad. I can put 8/8 into a piece of binder paper at ten feet with my CO2 pellet pistol :D

Guess I'm a better shot than an Police officer.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:28 | 2737074 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

357 w/5" barrel, 100 % at 165 yds

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:32 | 2737426 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

No, not BS at all- a man that knows what he is doing, knows his weapon, and knows his rounds can do quite well. It is very uncommon for sure, but a talented and knowledgeable shooter most certainly can- plus a .357 is fairly quick and flat shooting as pistol rounds go.

At the local public range I go to there is a mid 60's two tour Vietnam airborne vet who shoots an at most 18" X18" rock maybe 25 yards up the hill behind the targets at about 140 or 50 yards with using a .38 snubnose.  The man is a helluva pistolero and nails every shot- I sure as hell can't do it (tried, failed miserably, caught all kinds of commentary from him lol) but he makes it look like its nothing because he knows his stuff and has the gift.

A different old timer (pro shooter) with a .38 snub at 200 yards-

Fear the geezers!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:34 | 2737429 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

No fair.  He was using an auto-aim-bot or the hip fire perk.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:48 | 2737560 11th_hour
11th_hour's picture

What? 150+yards?  No way!  There is not a chance in hell.

Yeah.  Looks completely impossible.  /sarc off

Just for those folks that have never seen a talented shooter.  This clip is a quick example of shooting at that kind of distance.  And wait until you actually watch a professional competitiion shooter.  It makes you realize what the real limitations of weapons are and not what you perceive them to be.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:32 | 2737616 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Yeah, lots of comments from those who are completely clueless about firearms - - - or have never shot outside the bounds of a short indoor range with a 9mm.

That ole' Texan is likely a guy with many years experience and is completely familiar with his revolver in order to make long range hits.

You can tell that he wasn't 'happy' with the way things turned out, but couldnt just sit their while that cop would likely be killed.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:13 | 2737040 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Robert Asika is a negro. The old 'American' man would not have missed him. The officers only hit him in the elbow...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:49 | 2738050 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Ur fuckin' right, dogeater. Ditto with a chink communist. Like U. Be warned. Don't get in any containers.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:35 | 2737086 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

I really don't get it... 8' away. In checking up on this, I learned that the standard issue NYPD duty weapons are: Glock 19, Sig P226, and S&W 5946. I have fired the former two and can attest there should be no issues with accuracy at many times this range. Certainly, there's an element of combat stress that you have to make some allowances for, but I think these guys need a lot more trigger time at the range.

Also, the article doesn't really say if the rounds that purportedly hit the bystanders overpenetrated, or they were just misses. If the latter, then what's needed is more frangible ammunition.

Agree with you on the .357. It is the gold standard for stopping power, based on 80 years of gunfight data. Once I learned to handle the beast well, my S&W 686 will put the 125g JHPs into 2" at 25 yards all day long.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:03 | 2737163 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Agreed mostly.

One of my "house" guns is a GP100 in .357. In times of stress I don't need the kids or my wife worrying about racking one, safety's or jamming. Not so much on frangible ammo needed for cops or home defense...sometimes you need to shoot through drywall to get at the bad guys before they hurt anyone or hurt someone else.

Its just my preference I guess.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:33 | 2737427 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Had one of those for years, it is a fine piece of equipment and 100% reliable.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:24 | 2737807 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I love the piece.

Fits the hand well, like pointing the index finger right out of the box, solid as a rock like all Rugers...158gr Hydra-Shoks.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:34 | 2737962 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

A little research shows Hydra-shoks to be  prone to nose plugging with sheetrock, denim limiting effectiveness.  I would check out Federal HST's,  incredibly reliable and the expansion has to be seen to be believed.. 2 cents..

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:31 | 2737676 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

In another piece I read later, it said the perpetrator was struck 10 times out of the 16 shots fired.


"Officer Craig Matthews shot seven times, and Officer Robert Sinishtaj fired nine times, police said. Neither had ever fired their weapons before on a patrol....

Police officials have said the officers appeared to have no choice but to shoot Johnson, whose body had 10 bullet wounds in the chest, arms and legs."


So this is some mediocre shooting and also an issue of overpenetration. I can't seem to find anywhere what the standard issue duty round is for the NYPD. You'd have to imagine, though, that it's a fairly hot 115g or 124g +P JHP. This would be a data point supporting a return to an old-school 'flying dinner plate' round in urban environments.  

I also understand that the pistol has gotten a great deal more use than normal in urban fighting in 20+ total years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, and its stopping power with the military-issue 112g ball has been suboptimal. They are taking a hard look at the .45 ACP again.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 17:29 | 2739126 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I'm partial to the .40 myself and if some of the articles on ZH are to believed, there'll be plenty of ammo to be had once the ball gets rolling.

I also have an original (pre-CZ) Dan Wesson (made in MA!) .357 revolver that is an absolute joy to shoot.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:18 | 2737602 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Texas ain't New York City - - - thank God

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:25 | 2737673 puckles
puckles's picture

Not only that--These so-called "officers" violated the first rules of gun safety, i.e., never fire into an area where you can hurt others than the one you want to kill, never fire at water or any hard surface, due to richochet issues, and, finally, only fire if you can isolate your target.  This is basic stuff all cops are taught.  Apparently, these weren't.  Perhaps they were too new off the Afghan farm.  War situations do make one a bit trigger happy.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:06 | 2738058 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Both have been on the force for some time. Never fired in anger before. One is involved in a lawsuit against the PD. Some Union crap. In my experience, NY Police are very bad stuff. Tho contra to what I said above, I do recall a situation where one prolly saved me some grief. I had just locked my bike up to a brownstone's front railing, making a delivery. Door opens, Negro with knife comes out and bounces down steps...All I'm carrying is an icepick. At just that moment, 6'7" of Irish cop comes walking around the corner. Negro drops to all 4s, scuttles back in door. Police don't do foot patrols any more, tho; too dangerous. Might stumble on a crime-in-progress, resulting in damaged cop.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:37 | 2738635 Jagger
Jagger's picture

..........Vic estimated he was 165 yards out.....

That sounds like total BS to me. It would be a miracle to get even one hit at 165 yards with a pistol.  5 straight wasn't anywhere near 165 yards.   It is hard to hit anything with a pistol at 25-40 yards much less 165 yards.  Unless he had some sort of special target shooting pistol which I have never heard of, the range was no where near 165 yards.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:43 | 2736799 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Popo- I thing the ZH base is very pro-gun. What we are against is the police shooting innocent people. We see what armed forces (police and military) do when they have a monopoly on the firearms.

New York, Chicago, and in all the big cities, the citizens are sitting ducks for the criminals AND cops. We just want a level playing field.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:32 | 2736931 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

To protect and serve........and occasionally riddle innocent bystanders with bullets.............

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:00 | 2737007 Precious
Precious's picture

+ 100

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:55 | 2737139 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:01 | 2737153 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

WB7 - You've nailed it man.

No wonder they hit 9 civilians 

Banzai Never Fails.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:11 | 2737227 Precious
Precious's picture

Cinderblocks.  Yay.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:14 | 2737739 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

They were 8 feet (3 steps) from the shooter, wtf?  Two to the chest, one to the head.  Gunfight over.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:50 | 2737170 duo
duo's picture

you forgot the family dog.  They are a favorite target of police now, since a dog looking/barking at a cop is considered a threat or "resisting arrest".

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:45 | 2737637 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

I hear it doesn't even have to be a 'big, mean dog' like a pitbull.  Grandma's toy poodle better not  bark out a sound either !

Supposed to be an 'intimidation factor'.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:11 | 2737184 nmewn
nmewn's picture it my eyes or is the cop on the left "leading" a stationary target?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:27 | 2737215 duo
duo's picture

Extra points for innocent bystanders

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:15 | 2737797 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Might as well empty the clip - everybody knows if you leave any bullets unshot, they'll just spoil.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:03 | 2737159 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Has the "Gay" angle to this story been explored ?  Sounds like a designer's love spat ?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:12 | 2738066 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

That's what it was and No, it will not be. Fags = A#2 Group Entitlement. Jews = A#1.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:50 | 2736815 Melin
Melin's picture

The Tylers do frequently hold contradictory ideas as they relate to liberty but I'm not seeing it in this one.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:04 | 2736842's picture

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."


The statement is figurative for Whitman but literal for "Tyler."


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:33 | 2736934 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Popo get your head out of your ass. The Tylers (and the rest of us) are for civil liberties, like NOT GETTING YOUR ASS SHOT BY THE PIGS because they can't get any shit right. This should have been easy. If they thought they needed to kill him, do it. There were two of them and they were six feet away. My eight year old hits the target from that distance. But did they even need to shoot the guy? This is the bigger and more germane question.

Personally, if I mow down an ex-boss in the street, I've got to expect shots to come from somewhere...sometime...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:03 | 2737384 max2205
max2205's picture

Gonna look good on their resumes when they interview at TSA

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:40 | 2737758 Precious
Precious's picture

Can't wait to see what happens when the NYPD gets their hands on some drones.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:45 | 2737763 akak
akak's picture

It looks like they already have.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:14 | 2737401 Popo
Popo's picture

Retread this post and tell me it's pro gun.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:49 | 2737449 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture


Ok, time to reinstitiute the captcha math questions Tyler...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:19 | 2737869 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Popo's all about disinfo.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:44 | 2737828 nmewn
nmewn's picture

To me, its not pro or anti...its pointing out that guns are illegal for citizens to carry (for all intents and purposes for the common man, the law is cited) in NYC, that cops can't be everywhere at once if WE prefer to live in a "free" society, that cops are people too (adrenaline), that often times when cops show up more innocent people are harmed than are "saved" and that Bloomberg is a fascist douchebag who will use the blood of anyone (cops or civilians) to advance his agenda.

Ok...I threw in that last one ; -)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 11:43 | 2736963 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

Popo, i think Tyler's sarcasm is plainly evident. Must we always use a < /sarc > tag?

"That's explainable: the Mayor was likely distracted by his profound confusion how a deranged assassin with intent to kill was so blatantly unaware of New York City Administrative Code § 10-131 on the use of Firearms, which effectively makes any use or carrying of guns in the city of New York illegal.

Oh well, time to cut the maximum legal size of a New York soda drink by edict one more time."

sounds sarcastic to me ;)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:01 | 2737008 redpill
redpill's picture

Wrong Popo, you've misread it entirely.  New York City's gun laws did nothing to prevent this mad man from executing his former boss, obviously.  The point is that if you're willing to kill someone with a gun, whether or not it's illegal to have a gun is beside the point.  Banning guns turns law-abiding citizens into victims.  And to make matters worse, the police that are here to "save us" wind up causing a higher body count than the actual perpetrator.

Perhaps if you were allowed to carry a weapon in New York City, the supervisor who knew he may have a disgruntled employee on his hands could have had a chance at defending himself.  Instead not only he dies, but a bunch of other people get shot when the reckless sledgehammer of law enforcement decides getting their man is worth some "collatoral damage."

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:17 | 2737048 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

When a market is saturated with guns, it is a bit too late to wish for banning guns...

As to the boss packing at work, it is again the same old story. He would have helped him as the killer would have ambushed him.

Once again, the best measure is perimeter of security, check points, X-rays etc... The exact solutions 'Americans' on this site claim to wish to avoid.

But, hey, the cure for the ailments of 'Americanism' is well known: it is always more 'Americanism'.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:42 | 2737100 PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

4 out of 5 Texans recommend more "Texanism"

'round here gun control means hittin' what yer aimin' at.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:06 | 2737303 akak
akak's picture

4 out of 5 Tibetans recommend Chinese Citizenism for their fellow Tibetans who wish to suffer genocide.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:35 | 2737430 malikai
malikai's picture

By "genocide", you mean furnishing each home with television sets, monetary subsidy, and sattelite TV?

Because that's exactly what the party did. After they got rid of that annoying Dalai Lama dude.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:05 | 2737444 akak
akak's picture

No, by "genocide" I mean shooting those Tibetans who dared (and dare) raise a voice against Han Chinese invasion and annexation of their homeland, the wanton and purposeful destruction of hundreds of sacred religious temples and historically invaluable Tibetan cultural sites, suppression of traditional Tibetan religious practices, an active and ongoing war against the Tibetan culture (up to and including the constant propagation of the lie that the Tibetan people, as such, do not even exist, and are merely a branch of the Chinese), the Orwellian rewriting of history to claim that slavery was rampant in pre-'liberated' Tibet in order to rationalize the Chinese invasion and occupation of that nation, and the uprooting and forced relocation of many tens of thousands of Tibetans to make room for hundreds of thousands of Han Chinese colonists in order to dilute their population in their own (former) homeland, much as the USSR did with Russians in Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic States.

Still want to make disingenuous apologies for the crimes of the Chinese Communists against the Tibetans, you contemptible sack of shit?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:06 | 2737483 malikai
malikai's picture

Calm down there sparky. Also, I think you need to turn off the FOX. O'l rupy is pulling a fast one on you. Tell me something, have you ever been to Tibet?

I have.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:23 | 2737503 akak
akak's picture

Strawman much?

Nobody has more revulsion for, and aversion to, Rupy and his satanic FOX monster child than I.

As for your (likely brief and tourist) visit to Tibet, I have no doubt that it instantly made you an expert on every aspect of the political and historical situation in Tibet.  I am also sure your Chinese 'tour guides' (handlers) did their best to present their imperialistic invasion, occupation and colonization of that benighted land in the best possible light, self-serving propaganda which you evidently swallowed hook, line and sinker.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:32 | 2737534 malikai
malikai's picture

LOL. Akak, normally, you're pretty smart. But not so much this time.

Nevertheless, I do agree with your sentiment. Tibet should be free. And if you read into my initial statement a bit more, you'd see the cold satire in it, because there is no genocide like intellectual genocide. I guess I'll leave that one to you.

Oh, and by the way. If you're going to take such an extreme view on something, you ought to make sure you know what you're talking about first. As for my time spent in Tibet, well, that's my business. I reccomend you go there and see for yourself. I think once you get over the "they all look alike" thing, you'll find that it is very hard to find many Han outside of Lhasa or Xining. One thing I find odd about the whole Tibet episode is how many Tibetans I find in Beijing.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:36 | 2737541 akak
akak's picture

Must one visit a particular place in order to know of its history, and of the historical crimes committed against it and its people?

You are coming across as an apologist for the Communist Chinese regarding their innumerable crimes in Tibet, something which I cannot tolerate. 

What's next, you standing up for AnAnonymous?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:14 | 2737596 malikai
malikai's picture
See my answers below:

  1. History is written by the winner.
  2. See my example above about intellectual (and cultural, for that matter) genocide. For another example, turn on MTV.
  3. AnAnonymous is his/her own person.

And that's it for me. Not enough room here to keep going on.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:37 | 2737887 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

The "square" in front of the Jokhang temple is a Chinese innovation.  Before it was a maze of narrow alleys with shops and residences, making it difficult to get tanks up to the temple complex.  Now they can drive right up front and park.  People and whole villages are forcibly relocated from the countryside into appartment blocks.  Maybe they get their new TVs in there that you're talking about, but none of them like it.  None of them have a choice.  They have no way to make a living all crammed in on top of each other and they have to forget about their livestock.  Ancient cobblestone streets are dug up and paved over with asphalt.  What do the Chinese authorities in Tibet have against cobblestone streets?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:25 | 2737521 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Orwellian rewriting of history to claim that slavery was rampant in pre-'liberated' Tibet in order to rationalize the Chinese invasion and occupation of that nation,


Nope. Slavery was witnessed by Indo Europeans themselves.

'Americans' have been doing that all time long: invading people to teach them the natural rights theory.

The only difference with the Chinese: the Chinese actually abolished slavery.

What's the name of that Hollywood actor who is in that Tibet thing? Time to pin a poster on the bedroom's door.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:39 | 2737549 akak
akak's picture

And predictably, the rodent pokes his snout out of his nest, and mindlessly squeaks.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:30 | 2737748 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

"The only difference with the Chinese: the Chinese actually abolished slavery."

Get me some of that shit you're smoking, dude.  Must be some real mind-altering substances in it.

The Chinese abolished slavery?  Snort.  No they didn't, fucktard, they just retitled a "slave" as a  "Foxconn worker" and put them to work 18 hours a day seven days a week building iGadgets for pennies.  I don't see the labor force of any American company going up to the roof en masse to commit suicide over working conditions.  In America, they go on strike or quit or shoot the boss that abused them.  Reference the article above.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:25 | 2738074 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

We need to show some understanding for our Chicom Troll. The Party pays him per # of words, # of comments, something like that. No comments, no dog-nuggets. 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:25 | 2737335 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Isn't that where Dick Cheney shot his friend in the face, Texas?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:16 | 2737740 Precious
Precious's picture

Cheney's friend after being shot: "Where the fuck are the Secret Service when you really need them."

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:58 | 2737846 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The Kennedy' death.

Cheney down by 2.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:07 | 2737173 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Another leg down in the incoherence of AnAnonymous's US Chinese Chinese US Citizenism ramblings.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:36 | 2737625 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Incoherence ? Due diligence in testing an automated troll algo...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:07 | 2737174 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

Ahh yes your long debunked Americanism theory rises again.

Why don't you tell me how many have perished from democide in:


Soviet Union?


All of these populations were disarmed by their own killers.

Americanism can surely explain this away, I'm sure

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:22 | 2737517 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ahh yes your long debunked Americanism theory rises again.


Debunked? By whom? when?

All you do here is kicking the can the 'american' way, others did stuff, non sequitur... Do not forget Gengis Khan, the roman invasion of the Gauls and your no reference to nazis...

The day 'Americanism' is debunked, the world will know at the second. Will be such a big change...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:18 | 2737743 Precious
Precious's picture

As every good dictator knows, the first step to tyranny is disarming the citizenry.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:49 | 2737898 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

Americanism... US Citizenism.... All garbage propaganda intertwined by your foreigner fucked grammar.

This is for your unhealthy fondness of Nazis, (which falls lower on the list than your great cultural leader Mao):

Your comment history looks like its a job and your employer is paying too much.

Arrows, spears, or swords are not comparable to guns, just ask the Zulus.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:28 | 2738080 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

The day Chicom citizenism collapses, all surviving puppies will bark with joy.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 12:07 | 2737022 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Popo - what story are you reading?

I see none of what you say in this article.

Satire about Bloomberg and laws against guns, yes.

Did the satire sail over your head completely?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:38 | 2737236 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Dude, you are not a very discerning reader are you? You created a fantasy blog and filled it with your ideation.

But what I find incredibly funny are all those assholes who never considered that a shoot out would bring collateral victims.

They must watch the same goddamned movie where each and every shot is perfect and an immediate kill, and where you never get hit by return fire.

Now we know that just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you will hit your fucking target during a time of stress.

That innocents will be shot no matter how big your pretend balls are.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:18 | 2737406 Popo
Popo's picture

"Dude"? What are you a frat boy?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:50 | 2737705 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

You just forced me to give him an up, and you a down.


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:50 | 2737706 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 13:59 | 2737288 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Anti gun messages? Don't worry, on this forum, there will be plenty of pushback on that. See, in here, most everyone thinks we should all be armed so when someone that shouldn't have a gun starts shooting, we can all shoot back.

Which is flat, fucking brilliant, of course. Then there could be shootouts everywhere, and if the cops can inadvertantly shoot so many innocent bystanders, think of how great things will be when everyone else closes their eyes in a panic and starts firing!

Just think of how great that will work out in a darkened, crowded theater, for instance.

I saw something last week that showed that if you own a gun, you are three times s likely to get shot, and five times as likely to kill youself with your own gun. Here you go.

To that I say, load up all you civil libertarians! Just like in Chicago. Take each other out and make things safer for the rest of us! Dumb shits.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 14:20 | 2737328 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If only those 8 year-olds walking by had had guns with armor-piercing rounds.  They'd have been able to defend themselves from the cops and prevent this tragedy, saving everyone.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:32 | 2737423 CR Bill
CR Bill's picture

plexiglass belly-button ??

1/2" below the rt eye @ 4AM in the livingroom, single shot;  ya just gotta know what you are doing

no idea what the deal is with those cops, never shot anyone ?? (stats on NYC cop shootings ? anyone ?)


ahem, yes in TX (but I was from CA, killers also)

- no bullet-proof vest btw, were those killers wearing vests ??



Sat, 08/25/2012 - 15:52 | 2737451 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

If you spend a fair bit of time on shooting ranges you will come to realize that a large number of cops are not good shots at all even under good  conditions- add stress and adrenalin and this result is not too surprising.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:36 | 2737751 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

You speak the unvarnished truth my friend, so here's a greenie.

The range at which I used to shoot was frequented by people of the law enforcement persuasion, and to say they couldn't hit the side of a parked tractor trailer would be no exaggeration.  I'm putting six shots in a circle the size of a quarter, they're putting six shots in a circle the size of Manhattan.  Which might explain what happened yesterday.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:18 | 2738592 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Ok, so what drugs are cops on these days?  Are they just roided & raged/paranoid up?  Are they amping on something?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:31 | 2737613 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Just think of how great that will work out in a darkened, crowded theater, for instance.

Works well, if you see ONE muzzle flash, and its not moving, or slowly slaughtering the sheeple.Aim for the flash.........guaranteed show stopper.Even w/TL II/II on.Won't kill the perp, but will damn sure slow way down, or stop them long enough to get the upper hand.

Getting CM shot w/either of the vests on, with a .45, or 9mm, of any major caliber asking to getting hit with a thrown brick into the dead center of your chest........tried breathing, walking, talking after that?.

You live,but think your gonna die.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:45 | 2737896 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Just think of how great that will work out in a darkened, crowded theater, for instance."

Good point. Criminals and people with evil intent prefer the unarmed.

And to the point of  "progressives" who constantly drone on about someone should have known about the theater shooter beforehand...we need more government surveillance and help them find these people....and and and MORE MONEY to help the state...well, "someone" did.

In fact several "someones" did. The shrink at his unisversity knew he was acting weird and so did a friend of his when he said he wanted "to kill people."

"Before a gag order was issued, the university had said campus police had no records on Holmes. University officials also said Holmes lost access to university buildings after his June 10 withdrawal because his student access card was shut off, not because of threats or any other safety reason.


The university also said in writing there were no documents related to the decision to bar Holmes from the campus.


Prosecutors say they need the university documents to gain access to a notebook reportedly containing violent descriptions of an attack. The notebook reportedly was in a package Holmes sent to university psychiatrist Lynne Fenton. King has said the notebook is protected by a doctor-patient relationship. King claims that Holmes is mentally ill and had sought out Fenton for help with that illness.


Fenton is expected to testify at the Aug. 30 hearing.


Pearson said prosecutors want to establish whether Fenton was Holmes' psychiatrist at the time he sent the package to her, and if she was, whether the notebook was meant for therapy. If it wasn't meant for therapy and Fenton wasn't Holmes psychiatrist, prosecutors can have access to the notebook, which wouldn't be protected under the doctor-patient privilege.


Former Denver Deputy District Attorney Karen Steinhauser said arguments over the records show both sides are gearing up for a trial over Holmes' sanity.


"They know it's not a question of who did this," Steinhauser said. "They know that the only possible defense is that he was not sane at the time."


School records don't have the same legal protection as communication between a doctor and patient. Steinhauser said the records might help prosecutors establish that Holmes implicitly waived his right to privacy if he talked about some of the same things he spoke to his doctor about."

And the "friend"...

"In March, he had a conversation with a classmate at the University of Colorado-Denver about 'wanting to kill people... and that he would do so when his life was over,' according court documents filed by prosecutors.

The student was not identified and the threats were not reported to police."

Run like hell...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:53 | 2737713 mtomato2
mtomato2's picture

Trolls should at least leave some doubt behind in their path to pull the suckers in.  You're not even good at that.


Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:47 | 2737806 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You're mixing your messages here son. We are anti-statism, not anti-firearm. I want every person armed. 

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