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Was The NYPD Responsible For 10 Of The 11 People Shot Yesterday?
Update: Yes it was - Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers
The official media-friendly narrative explaining yesterday's latest tragic shooting incident in midtown Manhattan in which a recently unemployed Jeffrey Johnson, 58, walked up to his former boss and shot him three times point blank before "calmly" walking away, is that Johnson also shot 9 other people, luckily none fatally, before being taken down by the NYPD. Sadly, as so often happens these days, the "media-friendly" narrative is wrong, and as CBS and Guardian report, Johnson did not fire during the quote unquote shootout, in which at least nine other perfectly innocent were hit, all of them by stray NYPD bullets.
From CBS: "Police said it is unlikely that Johnson fired during the shootout." Uhm, then isn't shootout a somewhat inaccurate word? "One witness told investigators that Johnson fired, but ballistics tests don’t back that up, authorities said... At least nine other people on the street were also shot, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it is unclear whether they were shot by the suspect or police. “Some may have been shot accidentally by police officers who responded immediately,” Bloomberg said." In other words of the (at least) 11 people shot yesterday, 2 of whom fatally, the NYPD was responsible for 10 of those shot, 9 of whom were literally "collateral damage" in a non-shoot out, and should be sacrificing various animals to their assorted guns that the NYPD, in missing their designated target, is at least quite atrocious in hitting any major organs. All of which of course begs the question: is a hit-to-miss (and potentially hit-to-casualty) ratio of less than 10% for New York's finest really acceptable and is this the kind of statistic that NY City wishes to boast in enticing new tourists?
Below is a graphic complete clip of what happened around 9 am yesterday:
And some more on what really transpired via the Guardian:
Robert Asika was among those wounded, shot in the elbow from a distance of around eight feet by one of the two police officers who confronted Johnson. He accused police of "shooting randomly", and said he saw at least two others hit by police bullets.
"If you're gonna aim try and aim perfectly. If you wanna aim at the target, you got to know what you're doing because it's the street," Asika said. "I could have been dead right now. I could have been dead."
Asika was working on 5th Avenue on Friday morning, selling tickets for tour buses and the building's observation deck. He had only been in the job a week, after having been unemployed for over a year. "I was just standing there and I saw people running. I didn't want to run because I wanted to know why people were running so I turned around and I saw this guy," he said.
...
Police said Johnson been employed for six years as a designer of women's accessories at Hazan Imports. Kelly said during a press conference that he was laid off as part of a downsizing at the firm. Kelly described the gunman as a "disgruntled former employee" who came back to confront his former manager. "He shot and killed the former co-worker, striking him three times," Kelly said.
Johnson moved to draw his weapon, a .45 caliber handgun, as the officers approached, police said. There are conflicting reports as to what happened next. "The [police] tape clearly shows that the gunman had the gun out, and was trying to kill the officers," Bloomberg said. Other officials at the scene reportedly said the man had not fired on police.
The two police officers discharged 14 rounds, killing Johnson outside the entrance to the Empire State Building. Kelly at first said Johnson fired on officers, but police later said they were trying to determine whether Johnson fired. "These officers ... had absolutely no choice," Kelly said. "This individual took a gun out very close to them and perhaps fired at them."
He didn't. Instead he was mowed down in a cannonade of fire by the NYPD which has shot at least 9 other perfectly innocent bystanders, of whom miraculously none were killed.
Four women and five men were taken to city hospitals with gunshot wounds, but none was believed to be in a life-threatening condition. Police shut down nearby streets as forensic teams checked the gunman's body. The FBI were quick to confirm that the attack was not an act of terrorism.
Askia described the scene when officers caught up with Johnson. He said the gunman stopped six feet away from him, with two officers about eight feet in the other direction. "All of a sudden the guy stopped, and he was facing a cop who was following him," Asika said.
"He just reached in his suit and took out the gun, and I saw him pull it [towards] the cops. I'm like, is this guy for real? One of the cops was trying to shoot back at him and one of them shot me while the other one shot the guy."
"As soon as the bullet hit me, I felt like I didn't feel it. But then as soon as I tried to get up, I couldn't get up. I looked there and the blood was gushing out," Asika said.
"I was crawling, trying to get across the street, to the safe side of the street. I got across the street and I just fell at the bus stop and I was laying there and I couldn't get up no more. I was so tired, I was so scared. I've never been scared like that in my whole life."
...
Erica Solar, a mother of two who works as a receptionist on 37th Street, was hit in the back of the leg as she made her way to Dunkin' Donuts. Solar's friend, Christopher Collins, found her lying on the street as he got off a bus on his way to work.
"She was basically in shock. She didn't know if she had gotten stabbed or if she had gotten shot, but she just knew she was bleeding, and I was just there trying to keep her calm until paramedics arrived," Collins told the Guardian.
"It was chaotic. Everybody was running, cops were there immediately," Collins said. Solar was taken to Bellevue hospital, about a mile from the Empire State Building.
Another among the wounded was Media Rosario, from Brooklyn, who like Solar was hit in the back of the leg. She said that everything happened so fast, she saw people running, and when she turned around to see what happened, she was already shot," said her sister-in-law, Auselis Rosario.
...
Asika said Bloomberg visited him in hospital, but he received no apology from police.
That's explainable: the Mayor was likely distracted by his profound confusion how a deranged assassin with intent to kill was so blatantly unaware of New York City Administrative Code § 10-131 on the use of Firearms, which effectively makes any use or carrying of guns in the city of New York illegal.
Oh well, time to cut the maximum legal size of a New York soda drink by edict one more time.
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They should be held criminally liable for their actions, just like anyone else would be.
They will get 2 weeks' suspension with full pay AKA paid vacation. The Internal Affairs investigation will find NO wrongdoing and no one will be punished. The victims will be offered a pretty decent settlement, though, to make sure they keep quiet.
We're not in Albuquerque anymore...
http://opnateye.com/?p=360
"There is a law that Congress passed a few years ago that requires reporting on police shootings, but the Justice Department has NEVER enforced the law requiring reporting (big surprise there)"
i m not even surprised
Just make sure you're not standing anywhere near someone slurping on a "Big Gulp".
training shot and warning shot are now synonymous in the rotten apple.
Here is an idea for the NYC popo.
Practice shooting at the side of a barn from 4 feet away, BEFORE, drawing your weapon in a crowd of barn stormers.
According to Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne: 16 shots were fired by police. The perp(Johnson) had 10 holes in him. but "some of the bullet holes were exit wounds"
According to (wounded)witnesses: the officers fired from "eight feet away from Johnson"
At 8ft, 5 of the 10 holes were most likely exit wounds. So New Yorks FINEST only hit the target 5/16 times at a range of 8ft.
This is why your government needs millions of rounds of ammo, Their highly trained troops couldnt hit the broad side of a barn even if they were standing in the barn.
That is implying that the police officers were all aiming at the killer.
As US citizen nature is eternal, it is a bold hypothesis...
I've watched the video. The two officers are standing right in front of him, 2 steps forward and they could just hit him with their guns.
As for "As US citizen nature is eternal, it is a bold hypothesis..."; Do you actually think before you comment, or just type random words?
JFC, I was wondering the same thing. If any aspect of human nature is eternal - why would it have anything to do with Americans or "Amereicanism" (whatever the fuck that is)?
If this is the best the PRoC/Chinese Borg collective can come up with to troll ZH - They've got serious problems.
The most disingenuous propaganda always becomes self-satirizing.
He sounds like the MDB of the PRC or perhaps he's some other SOB from an alphabet org tasked with sowing division and hatred...wherever he's from, it's getting thin.
Do we even know if anyone in the PRC believes this shit? Every chinese I've heard talk about their government believes it's just a huge ponzi scheme. Clearly a troll, but his only agenda seems to be shitting up and derailing threads that discuss issues of liberty.
With the doors closed...you forgot that part.
thanks
Actually, now it's worse than that.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/26/us/new-york-empire-state-shooting/index.html
Suspect was hit 5 times out of 16. 5 head shots and 1 'grazing chest shot'. 3 bystanders were struck by outright misses, 6 by fragments.
So, in addition to poor shooting and overpenetration, I'd also throw in an aspect of poor judgment, trying for head shots in a crowded urban environment. Whatever happened to center-of-mass shots?This reminds me of black bitch 911 operators telling trade center employees to go to the roof and await Bernanke's helicopter ! Let's give these jerks more power and money to run our lives !
Is there a grassy knoll nearby?!
A tad OT, but similar, a few years back the DPD Dept cornered a suspect, and a shoot out ensued.
The DPD shot 110 rounds in the stand off/shoot out.The victim was hit 2x's, and lived.
Luckily they were on the Highway, and so not innocents behind as a back drop.
And people who have CCW permits are feared for not being smart enough to check the backstops before firing ,unless the threat is shoot now or die,then it's you or them.
And the suspect probably wasn't in an armored vehicle either.
More OT
Fast and Curious
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_MEXICO_EMBASSY_VEHICLE_SHOOTIN...
Mexican authorities are trying to sort out why a U.S. Embassy vehicle was shot up by federal police on a rural back road in mountains south of the capital, leaving two U.S. government workers wounded.
via Drudge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Phillips and M?t?s?reanu began to engage the officers, firing rounds into the patrol cars that had been positioned on Laurel Canyon in front of the bank.[15] Officers immediately opened fire. The patrol officers were armed with standard Beretta 92F and Beretta 92FS 9mm pistols and Smith & Wesson Model 15 .38 caliber revolvers, Officer James Zaboravan also carried a 12-gauge Ithaca Model 37 pump-action shotgun, but the body armor worn by Phillips and M?t?s?reanu was strong enough to resist penetration.[14] Multiple officers and civilians were wounded in the seven to eight minutes from when the shooting began to when M?t?s?reanu entered the robbers' white sedan to make a getaway; He ushered Phillips to get into the vehicle as well, however Phillips remained outside of it, retrieved a HK91 from the trunk, and continued firing on officers and helicopters while crouching behind the cars in the parking lot, possibly providing covering fire for M?t?s?reanu. Phillips fired from 60 to 120 rounds from the HK91, until it was struck in the receiver and magazine by police bullets, and Phillips was hit in the shoulder. He later retrieved a Norinco Type 56 S-1 from the trunk of the Celebrity.[14] A tactical alert was issued, and 18 minutes after the shooting had started, a SWAT team armed with AR-15s arrived. They had just started an exercise run when they received the call and had no time to change, and were thus wearing running shoes and shorts under their body armor. Officers then commandeered an armored cash-delivery truck, which they used to extract wounded civilians and officers from the scene towards the end of the shootout.[14]
...
In this case, approximately 650 rounds were fired at two very heavily armored men, who had fired approximately 1,100 rounds.[2] The responding police officers directed their fire at the "center of mass," or torsos, of M?t?s?reanu and Phillips. Each man was shot and penetrated by at least ten bullets, yet both continued to attack officers.
The LAPD did not allow M?t?s?reanu to receive medical attention, stating that ambulance personnel were following standard procedure in hostile situations by refusing to enter "the hot zone," as M?t?s?reanu was still considered to be dangerous.[14] Some reports indicate that he was lying on the ground with no weapons for approximately an hour before ambulances arrived
I remember that. It isnt OT. Over 100rds fired, and he was wounded twice.
Ready, fire, aim.
All time classic Raymond.
Gallows humor at it's finest.
Well done Sir...
ori
Fuck ready. Just fire.
'Zackly. I can't believe how crappy the cops are in that video, it actually looks like the one on the left has drawn and is firing 90 degrees off the alleged perp.
I live around here and the news last night made it very clear that the police were responsible for all the wounded. So this story kind of loses me with the perception that they are blaming the perp for all the wounded. That is simply not the case. The news did go out of it's way to defend the police action. They said the police don't get to choose where a shootout happens and that people getting wounded was a matter of bad luck.
What is interesting is they admitted the guy had no psychological or health issues. He just was broke and and unemployed and that turned into anger. I'm sure thats isolated.
Here comes the cop, all dressed in blue. He's after me, he's after you. He's got a gun, he's got a knife, you better run for your life." -- David Peel & The Lower East Side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FFdSf8Ue8U
It’s all good..
They were each holding a Big Gulp.
The bullets probably went through the perp and continued on to injure bystanders .... should have used humane hollow point .... the perp was considerate to the bystanders and used a shot gun .... less arrogant and self righteous than our fat overpaid public employees !
They were likely using Hollow Points, and even at that range a hollowpoint will still overpenetrate.
Thanks ! I'm a little embarrassed by my jerky post .... I can do much better !
Im in the city everyday, and I doubt most of bloombergs "army" could hit the side of a barn in a shootout scenario.....
I think you would have a better shot grabbing the gun from the cop and dealing with it yourself then depending on some of the cops I see in the city. That being said I am going to get skewered for what I said below. So be it.
Darn right! I think those 'innocent' bystanders should be charged with interfering with a police investigation by walking in front of those bullets meant for that guilty perp. If they complain too much perhaps a long trip yo a psychiatric hospital to investigate their terroristic tendencies is in order?
I've said it a million times..........if you want to hit the intended target drop the fucking jelly doughnut and use both hands...
fonzannoon
Yes, after the fact it went viral that the shooter had wounded the innocents.
Then the truth came out, so we then correct it.Trust me, there will be MANY lawsuits for Mayor Doomberg to pay out taxpayer funds.
It does not take 14-16 rds to STOP the perp,this was a total lack of control.
The officers acted in self defense, since the bystanders, still moving, presented a unknown threat to the officers' safety.
NYPD Union Representative
From the video I saw some running away. No doubt guilty as hell.
Fortunately, none of the bystanders died.
NYPD Police Chief
The officers acted courageously while in the line of fire.
Mayor of New York City
By fire, Bloomberg means their own?
Yup.
We commend the officers for their valor. One cannot imagine what must have been going through their heads.
New York Better Business Bureau
We issue weapons to officers on a first-come first-serve basis.
NYPD Department of Procurement
Just one of those summer days, where you're sitting on a bench minding your own business, and the cops start shooting everybody.
Bystander to Nurse at Hospital
We continue to support the NYPD and we thank them for supporting us.
New York City Bar Association
Fantastic sir.
Cop walks into a bar and says to the bartender "Have you seen any criminals around here?"
The bartender says, "No."
The cop says, "I'm not asking you again."
NYPD All Precinct Meeting for Monday, August 27th, 8:00 AM
------------ AGENDA ------------
a) Always assume your firearm is loaded.
b) Always point your firearm in a safe direction.
c) Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
--------------------------------
Sunday New York Times Headline:
"NYPD puts new twist on calling 9-1-1."
CNN: Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts sends Bloomberg a dictionary with the word "CEASEFIRE" underlined.
Drudge: Schumer calls for Senate healthcare bill to add vision coverage for emergency reponders.
ROTFL!!!...and more cops on the beat.
ESPN: Anonymous woman at Empire State Building sets new world record in 40 meter dash.
Vogue: Ralph Lauren announces new line of Kelvar casualwear.
Yes it was. This guy also, like someone else here said, chose suicide by police.
" You didn't kill yourself ... "
Obama to NYC cops:
"You didn't shoot those fatal bullets --- somebody else did that."
It takes a village to massacre innocent bystanders, eh? Sounds like something Obummer would say. In fact, it sounds like his Middle Eastern foreign policy, verbatim.
News failed to mention these people should be world-class marksmen because they work in a densely packed urban environment.
The news made it sound as if the sheriff's deputies from Bumfuck, Nowhere showed up to a shoot-out at the OK Corral, totally obliterating the fact that they in fact work there every fucking day. Who exactly is surprised that a shooting in NYC - where these cops work every single day - took place in a crowded area? Unless otherwise specified, the whole city is a crowded area.
How long until we find out how many rounds the perp was carrying and how many were physically in the gun? Was there even a round chambered after the 3 fired point-blank? Who wants to bet he didn't even have a full magazine.
PS: Cops get paid to attend firearms training and have access to ranges all the time, no excuses for their abysmal performance seemingly every time they discharge a firearm.
Sherriff's deputies from Bumfuck, Nowhere can generally shoot and have usually been doing it since elementary school. The urban dipsticks in the big metro police units are the ones who need advanced training after being hired to determine which end the bullet comes from.
Way, yo.
how much will the compensation claims add to the deficit?
Bloomy will just pick up the BEN phone or shine the "$" BEN signal on a passing cloud.
20 hollow points down and 999,999,980 to go.
Been there done that..truer words never spoken...francis sawer.
Great...these guys were trained in using guns and ammo. So let's get more guns and ammo into the hands of "normal" survivalists and see what happens when these wackos start firing.
Buddy. I'd bet on a practiced civilian shooter over a cop or "security" guard any day of the week.
How many cops do you see in the Olympics shooting competition. Zip. That's how many.
I'm all for easy gun availability. That said, it's sheer crazy to pretend that if you make guns as easy to get as knives that everyone who buys one will be a disciplined and trained shooter. Most people aren't disciplined or trained for ANY of what they do.
If you give guns to everyone, you guarantee an enormous increase in the number of people being shot.
As demonstrated in this situation.
(Now I'll say again--I'm opposed to gun control, and personally, that scenario would suit me fine. I think if we spend a few weeks living in Dodge City, a LOT of innocent people would be killed/maimed, but if most of the assholes who want to shoot people get taken out too, that's a net win. Whether you love or hate guns, it's worth distinguishing between wishful thinking and predictable outcomes.)
Every Swiss man between the ages of 18 and 55 has a fully automatic rifle. It is not unusual to see them in uniform on the train carrying their gun on their way to "the office" as it were. And yet somehow, nobody ever gets shot in Switzerland.
There are other considerations. If you implement mandatory military service like in Switzerland, at least you'd know the gun owners would have some training.
But I'm not a fan of those big government solutions. Forcing everyone through military service is far worse than having some folks shot now and again. If you want government commandeering 4 years of your life, just enlist. I prefer keeping the freedom to choose.
No gun control, but people with a bad upbringing and bad intentions and malicious tendencies as commonly expressed by those willing to work for the state should be kept away from the trigger.
Moderation (and training!) is the key. Advocacy and stewardship (of the Second Amendment) should never be conflated with an irresponsible fervor. That is the road to fanaticism and you will never win playing their game.
"I'm telling u son it ain't no fun starin straight down a .44"
Even if you are wearing a bullet proof vest.
Even if you have been trained at a firing range to shoot at what you intend to hit.
Even if you are scared to be shot at
Even if you have been trained not to fire your weapon in a crowded area.
Even if you know that your union will protect you for discharging your weapon
Nonthing would overide the normal self preservation response. Been There!! Done That!! These cops have no business carring a weopon!!!
BS
crystal clear in my mind what needed to be done by me, self preservation never a thought
agree that these cops are crap (untrained)
Bill
A blast of freezing pepper gas has the same immediate stopping power; not so miraculously everyone gets up and walks away after the movie.
Have you ever used pepper spray? It's only accurate at arm's length.
There's a reason why it's not a meaningful self-defense option.
How about a stun-gun? Or a carbine rifle? Doesn't matter, they still couldn't hit a man-sized target at 10 feet.
A blast of freezing pepper gas has the same immediate stopping power
No it doesn't.
Watch the video of the takedown and imagine being one of the cops armed with just pepper spray. It wouldn't work.
That said, one of those officers needed waaaaay more time on the range in tactical exercises.
May not be fun staring down the barrel of a 44 but from the sound of things if it is a police 44 and you are five feet away you are pretty safe....
Just sayin.......
K@
"Dear kindly Judge, Your Honor, my parents treat me rough, with all their marijuana, they won't give me a puff,
they didn't wanna have me, but somehow I was had, Leapin' Lizards! That's why Im so bad!
Officer Krupke, you're really a square, this boy don't need a judge, he needs an anaylst's care,
It's just his nuerosis that ought to be curbed, he jus psyco....logically..disturbed"
Lyics from the song Officer Krupke from the musical,West Side Story.
Shoot first, ask later...
Who cares about "collateral damage"...
Like the movie QExxx soon to be seen in the same NY theater...
They were SIX FEET AWAY from the guy and emptied their guns at him, missing at least NINE TIMES? These cops need to be removed from the force for PUBLIC SAFETY!
I doubt that the police will show much interest in the shooting since the only people that were shot were ordinary slaves. It’s not like they shot someone important like a TSA worker.
Perhaps they could be assigned to protect and serve “Bloomberg,” himself; after all, they’re making his case (good examples) for gun control.
Are you a fat fella with hair colored yellow?
Too bad the NYPD fired this babe awhile back. One shot, one kill @ http://seductivejewess.com/type-iii56-carol-sarah-shaya/
And at tha close range, unless running down the street with her weapon in hand, when the guy turned around with his gun, she probably would've taken the two extra steps and punched the guy in the neck, rather than taking the time to unholster.
LOL at the mother who leaves her daughter in the blue shirt in the line of fire.
Holy shit theos good pickup. Way to leave your kid out there....
Wow, seriously. WTF.
Hey Mikey Bloomberg, if your gonna have Google and Cisco have real time cameras running on every square inch of NY, you better get those joker cops some better training, the cameras don't lie!!!
Lol
Or you better get your system set up so everything is a "national security" issue, therefor the public can never see it or it can be "edited"! You guys look like a bunch of fucking amateur hour, clowns in this incident!!! Can you imagine these fucking idiots in Iraq or Afganistan, my god, we might have lost 100,000 men over there, if this undeciplined shit was allowed in the military!
Ohh but ask those fucks in the NYPD police officers union, and they'll tell you they deserve $150,000 a year pensions with full medical for life after 18 years of service!! Thanks Mike, at least NY residents know what their paying for with this new cameras everywhere!
They don't need to declare "national security". Giuliani figured out that the trick is to declare a crime scene...thats all it took during the 9/11 clean up to have all cameras confiscated ( read:stolen ) so that the Boys in Blue can steal the change from the vending machines and then point a gun in my face when I gave them a dirty look for doing it.
"LOL at the mother who leaves her daughter in the blue shirt in the line of fire."
The government has people to take care of mini-me, right?
As soon as Mayor BB watches that video he'll have the shameful 'mother' fined for drinking a Big Gulp in public.
If there were any justice, it would've been a nanny with some rich shithead's kid. ;)
"Someone shootin' at Miss Thing? Well, shit. I'll have to get a new job."
In his little duchy, Bloomberg's troops can do no wrong.
Still, he says "we must get guns off the streets", while his literally BLOATED force carries around HKs and ARs.
Bloomberg's troops can do no wrong.
Of course - they are worshipped on TV - every night, all night!
How could they possibly do wrong?
Right, remember the bill boards, "Support our troops AT HOME, and abroad"? The NYPD is on the front lines in the war against, uh, obesity? Uh, Smoking?
The Thin Blue Whine.
And 32oz sodas.
And you thought New York had a lot of stray CATS !
U-3 numbers are only 8.3%
Est. 92% of America is working.
This inicident has nothing to do with the economy.
This article is about how government agents shot 10 people comprising one target and nine innocents, which is to say, doing far more harm than good. The same applies to the actions other branches of government do, for example, to the economy: far more harm than good. The government manages to put people in jail for stealing $400 from liquor stores, but somehow can't find anything wrong with Jon Corzine who stole $1.6 billion dollars from customers, despite the fact that multiple people have spelled out the case for knowing fraud in numerous ways. The mortgage settlement is another case. Adventures in Afghanistan. Prosecuting raw milk sellers. Gibson Guitars. There are thousands.
Last week, a lady in Arizona got a citation for passing out free bottles of water on a hot 100+ day...
Stick to the facts rehypothecator. This article is incorrect if it is about how the police shot 10 people. They shot at 1 person. People got wounded and I am sure you can tear apart their training and preperadness all you want but the police shot at 1 person. To make it sound like the police took the opportinity of shooting all over the place and hitting 10 people is crap and anyone pushing it is really out there.
I"m confused. Are you saying that the cops didn't shoot anyone except the perp or are you saying that they did shoot a bunch of people but it was just an accident -- no harm, no foul?
Here is rehypothecator's first sentence "This article is about how government agents shot 10 people comprising one target and nine innocents"
All I am saying is that is incorrect. I am awkwardly defending something again and I am sure you will hand me my ass again. I actually agree with everything rehypothecator said from then on....but unless I am waaay off, his first sentence is wrong. The cops shot AT one person. Saying they shot 10 people is spin. How they did their job and if they over did it (resulting in people getting unnecessarily wounded) is certainly in question. But they shot AT one person. Bullet ricochet's and fragments ended up wounding 9 people. But this was outside the empire state building not in a backyard. Again I am all for questioning everything but I was disputig that one sentence.
No ones trying to hand you your ass...but it can safely be said, the police prevented no injuries or deaths yesterday.
Here is how causality works: Cop squeezes trigger and fires a bullet--> Bullet travels through air --> bullet hits innocent bystander. Cop shot innocent bystander. Cause --> Effect.
Doesn't matter the intent or what he was aiming at. If the trigger was not squeezed, no innocent bystanders would have been hit....9 TIMES.
Yes, exactly, thank you. You can bet your ass that if Joe Citizen had been the one firing the bullets at Mr. Psycho Boss Killer and Joe hit nine innocent civilians, Joe Citizen would be bundled into the back of the cop car with Mr. Psycho Boss Killer. Civilians don't get a pass for "collateral damage", but watch these clowns in blue get nothing but a slap on the wrist and a finding of "Unsustained" by the boys at Internal Affairs.
No fonz, they TRIED to shoot AT one person, but wound up shooting AT nine others because they arent exactly the most proficient "army" in the world..........
Agreed all around. But I did watch the news last night and they made it clear that the cops were in fact responsible for the wounded. There is a bit of spin in this article that I did not find factual. Everything else I agree with.
No spin is needed. The cops shot 10 people they weren't aiming for. This shit spins itself.
You've got a valid point or at least a defensible one. Target primarily means that which is meant to be attacked but it can conceivably also mean that which is attacked.
Definition of TARGET
1
: a small round shield
2
a : a mark to shoot at b : a target marked by shots fired at it c : something or someone fired at or marked for attack d : a goal to be achieved
3
a : an object of ridicule or criticism b : something or someone to be affected by an action or development
4
a : the metallic surface (as of platinum or tungsten) upon which the stream of electrons within an X-ray tube is focused and from which the X-rays are emitted b : a body, surface, or material bombarded with nuclear particles or electrons; especially : fluorescent material on which desired visual effects are produced in electronic devices (as in radar)
Just image some bodega owner, licensed ( not that Lord Bloomberg would ever allow working class muppets gun licenses ) had hit 9 innocent people after a attempted robbery.
I'm late on this comment so no one will probably read it.
Turns out shop keepers are a much better aim, even in gun phobic NYC
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/nyregion/14shoot.html?pagewanted=all
they shot AT one person, six paces away, and HIT ten. thats called 'spray and pray'. might as well had the afghan police trainees do it for them.
Agreed. I am just saying there is a bit of spin here in making it sound like they shot AT 10 people intentionally.
They shot 10 people apparently due to poor firearms handling (and bad judgement), not due to intention.
Just consider what would happen to the average citizen if they had shot 10 bystanders while defending themselves from one perpetrator. Yet, here we have cops who obviously do not have proper gun control on the streets taking shots they probably should not have attempted.
Pretty fuckin funny how you were up arrowed all around Pay day and I got creamed for saying the same thing.
You seem caught up on interjecting the word "at" as if it matters, I don't care how many were shot "at"- what matters is how many were shot.
Thats true. I am only caught up in using it becuase I felt this article was implying that the cops shot AT 10 people. They shot AT one person. That person chose suicide by police. He was going to get shot and they shot him...way too many times, with awful accuracy and a lot of unnecessary people got hurt.
If two cops shot four times and missed and the bullets ricocheted and hit 4 people between missed bullets and fragments then I would think their response would be under much less scrutiny, but apparently not.
Do you think any of the people who got shot give a flying fuck whether it was "intentionally" or "not intentionally"?
Hey New York dupes. When are you going to recall your criminally negligent Mayor?
That's just it, they care about literally nothing. I call that hell-hole nihilist for a reason.
.......""""Hey New York dupes. When are you going to all your criminally gligent Mayo""""""".....
Some of the "civilians"( aka muppets ) might of had high BMI or Big Gulps in their hands and thus pulled away the attention of the Officers.
from the looks of it on video looks like one cop crosses over in front of the other behind him which already has his gun drawn and pointed at Johnson...morons.
Well now fonzannoon - the cops may have shot AT one person but they SHOT 9 others. It will be interesting to see how many of those who were shot were hit by ricochets and how many were simply drilled by the gang that couldn't shoot straight. At least a few of those cops were less than ten feet from the bad guy - wonder how far away the others were. Is this a case of everybody wanting to get a piece of the action?
BTW this sounds like suicide by cop to me - and there were certainly plenty of boyz in blue ready to oblige.
I agree completely. The article seems to make it seem like they shot 10 people (and almost seems to imply intent). I have a bit of an issue with that. One of my neighbors is NYPD. He actually just said to me last week that in a simple drill cops shooting at a stationary perp while the cops were walking toward him missed 80% of the time.
If the cops missed 80% of the time, that's a lot of stray bullets. Which in this case appear to have struck 10 other people.
i am defending the cops by saying they acted stupidly and bungled their response as opposed to rehypothecators point about other arms of govt that i believe have intent and that intent is evil and i am getting hammered for it. that tells me people on here thinks the cops had evil intent instead of just being bad at their job and inept. thats scary
The is plenty of "evil intent" here. Here's an incomplete list:
1) Bloomberg outlawing the 2nd Amendment in NYC
2) the NYPD chiefs who make Political Correctness their overarching mission, instead of fitness for duty and proper training
3) the media, which gives Bloomberg and the NYPD brass a pass for the above
How's that for starters.
don't pin all that shit on me stick to the specefic incident and response which is what i was referring to
Au contraire, it's quite specific to the incident. Policy Decisions have very specific consequences in the real world. Send your police force to Sensitivity Training instead of force-on-force simmunition drills? Then this is what happens.
I get where you are going. I am seperating two things. Defending one and not the other. You are tying them in. I don't agree, and if I did I would back off my point. But I get it.
buckaroo to be clear..are u saying the cops should not have shot a guy who just blew someone else away and did have a weapon out on them or that they should have had better aim
i don't mind the down arrow but how about someone answers the question?
You say what you like dude, that's what ZH is for.
However I think you've said it way too many times ;)
Fair enough. All this over semantics....
It's been fun, I think you'll find there is broad agreement that the NYPD suck,
oh alright, chill - (in this case).
I didn't say anything about intent. I can't read minds. Can you? Good intent or not, governments often do more harm than good. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
my problem was with the article not you. when you extrapolated on it i took issue. anyway...how bout them mets.
Yeah there have been studies on all shootings cops are involved in and they usually take place at like two meters range with almost all shots missing largely due to the massive adrenaline dump.
That said, this incident is completely unacceptable, the officers abjectly failed and should be fired.
What do you think the union would say about that?
Don't they have reckless endangerment laws in NYC?
I'm sure they do. But they also have strong public cector unions to protect incompetent cops.
It's not unlike pheasant hunting. When the hunter jumps the pheasant, the bird is so close it scares the hunter so he misses the bird even though the pheasant isn't more than 10 or 15 yards away. The bird gets away. The next time Mr. Cheney is ready for the bird and shoots his hunting partner.
FWIW, I've hunted pheasants.