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Was The NYPD Responsible For 10 Of The 11 People Shot Yesterday?
Update: Yes it was - Police: All Empire State shooting victims were wounded by officers
The official media-friendly narrative explaining yesterday's latest tragic shooting incident in midtown Manhattan in which a recently unemployed Jeffrey Johnson, 58, walked up to his former boss and shot him three times point blank before "calmly" walking away, is that Johnson also shot 9 other people, luckily none fatally, before being taken down by the NYPD. Sadly, as so often happens these days, the "media-friendly" narrative is wrong, and as CBS and Guardian report, Johnson did not fire during the quote unquote shootout, in which at least nine other perfectly innocent were hit, all of them by stray NYPD bullets.
From CBS: "Police said it is unlikely that Johnson fired during the shootout." Uhm, then isn't shootout a somewhat inaccurate word? "One witness told investigators that Johnson fired, but ballistics tests don’t back that up, authorities said... At least nine other people on the street were also shot, but Mayor Michael Bloomberg said it is unclear whether they were shot by the suspect or police. “Some may have been shot accidentally by police officers who responded immediately,” Bloomberg said." In other words of the (at least) 11 people shot yesterday, 2 of whom fatally, the NYPD was responsible for 10 of those shot, 9 of whom were literally "collateral damage" in a non-shoot out, and should be sacrificing various animals to their assorted guns that the NYPD, in missing their designated target, is at least quite atrocious in hitting any major organs. All of which of course begs the question: is a hit-to-miss (and potentially hit-to-casualty) ratio of less than 10% for New York's finest really acceptable and is this the kind of statistic that NY City wishes to boast in enticing new tourists?
Below is a graphic complete clip of what happened around 9 am yesterday:
And some more on what really transpired via the Guardian:
Robert Asika was among those wounded, shot in the elbow from a distance of around eight feet by one of the two police officers who confronted Johnson. He accused police of "shooting randomly", and said he saw at least two others hit by police bullets.
"If you're gonna aim try and aim perfectly. If you wanna aim at the target, you got to know what you're doing because it's the street," Asika said. "I could have been dead right now. I could have been dead."
Asika was working on 5th Avenue on Friday morning, selling tickets for tour buses and the building's observation deck. He had only been in the job a week, after having been unemployed for over a year. "I was just standing there and I saw people running. I didn't want to run because I wanted to know why people were running so I turned around and I saw this guy," he said.
...
Police said Johnson been employed for six years as a designer of women's accessories at Hazan Imports. Kelly said during a press conference that he was laid off as part of a downsizing at the firm. Kelly described the gunman as a "disgruntled former employee" who came back to confront his former manager. "He shot and killed the former co-worker, striking him three times," Kelly said.
Johnson moved to draw his weapon, a .45 caliber handgun, as the officers approached, police said. There are conflicting reports as to what happened next. "The [police] tape clearly shows that the gunman had the gun out, and was trying to kill the officers," Bloomberg said. Other officials at the scene reportedly said the man had not fired on police.
The two police officers discharged 14 rounds, killing Johnson outside the entrance to the Empire State Building. Kelly at first said Johnson fired on officers, but police later said they were trying to determine whether Johnson fired. "These officers ... had absolutely no choice," Kelly said. "This individual took a gun out very close to them and perhaps fired at them."
He didn't. Instead he was mowed down in a cannonade of fire by the NYPD which has shot at least 9 other perfectly innocent bystanders, of whom miraculously none were killed.
Four women and five men were taken to city hospitals with gunshot wounds, but none was believed to be in a life-threatening condition. Police shut down nearby streets as forensic teams checked the gunman's body. The FBI were quick to confirm that the attack was not an act of terrorism.
Askia described the scene when officers caught up with Johnson. He said the gunman stopped six feet away from him, with two officers about eight feet in the other direction. "All of a sudden the guy stopped, and he was facing a cop who was following him," Asika said.
"He just reached in his suit and took out the gun, and I saw him pull it [towards] the cops. I'm like, is this guy for real? One of the cops was trying to shoot back at him and one of them shot me while the other one shot the guy."
"As soon as the bullet hit me, I felt like I didn't feel it. But then as soon as I tried to get up, I couldn't get up. I looked there and the blood was gushing out," Asika said.
"I was crawling, trying to get across the street, to the safe side of the street. I got across the street and I just fell at the bus stop and I was laying there and I couldn't get up no more. I was so tired, I was so scared. I've never been scared like that in my whole life."
...
Erica Solar, a mother of two who works as a receptionist on 37th Street, was hit in the back of the leg as she made her way to Dunkin' Donuts. Solar's friend, Christopher Collins, found her lying on the street as he got off a bus on his way to work.
"She was basically in shock. She didn't know if she had gotten stabbed or if she had gotten shot, but she just knew she was bleeding, and I was just there trying to keep her calm until paramedics arrived," Collins told the Guardian.
"It was chaotic. Everybody was running, cops were there immediately," Collins said. Solar was taken to Bellevue hospital, about a mile from the Empire State Building.
Another among the wounded was Media Rosario, from Brooklyn, who like Solar was hit in the back of the leg. She said that everything happened so fast, she saw people running, and when she turned around to see what happened, she was already shot," said her sister-in-law, Auselis Rosario.
...
Asika said Bloomberg visited him in hospital, but he received no apology from police.
That's explainable: the Mayor was likely distracted by his profound confusion how a deranged assassin with intent to kill was so blatantly unaware of New York City Administrative Code § 10-131 on the use of Firearms, which effectively makes any use or carrying of guns in the city of New York illegal.
Oh well, time to cut the maximum legal size of a New York soda drink by edict one more time.
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The article states that people were hit "by stray NYPD bullets". That means they were not being targetted.
You walk through the city looking at most of bloombergs infantry and you would swear it was the Bad News Bears all grown up and in police uniforms instead of little league uniforms....
Never mix guns and sodas.
Agreed, but to be fair, the pay really sucks. The only folks who'll take that job for that pay-rate are kids, basically.
Bullshit. Pay starts at ~$55k/yr plus full bennies. SGTs with seniority can make $100k. LTs and CPTs even more.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pu400RdEAzSJbEb7yyXN4CQ
Oh, you poor dear. You don't know how to read a spreadsheet, do you?
Try some of this:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=excel+for+dummies&hl=en&client=...
I'm reading that after 1/06 (six years ago) starting pay for officer bulk rate was $49,023.
Maybe low for New York, but still good money.
$49K is good money. It's not a cop's starting pay, though.
Starting pay is $41K with a bump at 6 months (washout period) to $44K. About 3 years duty to get to $49K.
I'm currently working a McJob for $27K, and I certainly wouldn't be tempted by that kind of income. On the other hand, I've got a degree. I guess considering you can be a cop with just a GED, it's not bad. That doesn't even take into consideration the opportunity to supplement your take-home with crime.
It's not enough to shoot straight, you also have to consider what type of ammo was used. High power full metal jacket stuff is known to go right through people at close range. They may have hit him (and a couple others behind him).
The police shot 10 people. They shot at 1 person, but they shot 10 people.
Correct, and if you use that sentence in place of the one I questioned, it puts the intent in better context.
I did not use the word "at" in my first sentence. "[...] government agents shot 10 people comprising one target and nine innocents." If and only if a bullet at high speed intersects a person, that person "has been shot." Ten people were shot. That is all.
i hope this chain at least got me off some govt watch list cause i just took a beating
Check the pizza box.
I knew you had an ulterior motive...well done ;-)
The good news is while very few agree with me everyone on here would defend my right to say what I did right?
right?
(crickets)
You have the right to say what you want here, as far as I'm concerned. Just be prepared for the fallout. ;-)
I will always defend your right to say it.
Agreeing, supporting or believing it is a completely different matter ;-)
i hear ya nmewn i don't have it in me to believe these cops were anything other than ill prepared and inept and more people than necessary ended up hurt. i think there was a bit of spin and i think the media quickly pointed out that people were hurt by cops. but i can see thats not the majority opinion here.
I think as more comes out most of the "wounded" will be found to have minor injuries...you know how the MSM whips everything into a froth.
Still, thats a lot of shots by two cops to take down one guy on a crowded sidewalk...they had to (or should have) had that at the fore front of their minds when they drew.
Never ascribe to malice what can more easily be attributed to incompetance.
And yes you have the right to your opinions, that is what we come here for.
Hmmm,
Psst, hey. Yes you, come here... I have this bridge... in Brooklyn.... yea, you have this golden, onle time opportunity to buy in.
Citing U-3 = TROLL
http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
What idiot uses u-3?
Try 16% and that doesn't breakout for part-timers. Have you been to this site before? Shadowstats will help you out. Try to keep up.
U-3 numbers are only 8.3%
Yeah, and if you believe that, I have swampland in AZ for ya..............
It's actually around 23%.
New York's Finest..NOT
Project and swerve.
After that pathetic display of proficiency, Bloomberg should worry about the control of his officers guns rather than gun control.........
they can't even control their bladders. expecting them to control their aim is like expecting figs from an oak tree.
Where I come from, "gun control" is the product of good training and lots of range time.
Being from Queens but having lived in Texas for 11 years, I imagine the NYC cops only fire their weapons for quals and not for fun or recreation. It makes a diffenece.
Seems that the NYPD needs to go back to school regarding shooting.
I think the closest cop didn't even know who the threat was until he was already down. The only valuable spark of training the cop had was reloading when the mag was empty!! Was the other cop shooting with one hand when he hit the actual threat??
It all started innocently enough, with Poker & McDonald's.
When will people learn?
The cop on the right is ducking down and firing his gun. Nice training there, NYPD...not prepared at all.
Actually the cop ducking down should of had a TWO handed grip on his gun,not one.One handed grips are reserved for injury to either shooting hand.Recoil with one handed grip not so great,hence,missing target.Esp in the Big City's.
10mm
While I agree the best is always a two hand, one must train using weak hand only.
Plus the recoil from a 9mm Glock,IF that is what they were using is NIL,even in a 26, much less a 19/17.
The squat was a smart move,present the smallest target possible.
The cop on the right is ducking down and firing his gun. Nice training there, NYPD...not prepared at all.
Actually that is a smart move, present the smallest target possible,if no C & C immediately avail.
No different than the recent shooting of a deranged homeless guy in a strip center in Mid America who brandished a knife while at least 20 feet away from 7 cops; 46 shots in the body of this poor guy. Over kill to say the least. But the key conclusion is that cops shoot first; no attempt for any other solution. Didn't used to be this way.
Not saying the above incident was not overkill but a guy with a knife at 20 feet can travel that distance and stab you in seconds, you really don't have much time.
Eight times in ten that guy with the knife, at that distance, will overtake and kill the trained man with a gun.
Still, you don't bring a knife to a gun fight...
Er...only if you say "that TRAINED guy with the knife." Joe Amateur would have to get lucky.
Other than combat vets and the incredibly rare martial-arts student, who the hell is trained with a knife?
You don't know much about edged weapons. You don't need any skill to stab someone at arms length. They dont jam or fail to fire when pressed up against someone, like a semiauto pistol will in close quarters. Knives don't need to be reloaded. It is much easier to take a gun away from someone than a knife.
I could go on and on. If you see someone coming at you with a knife, and he's within 20 feet, you better start running because he will probably kill or incapacitate you before you get your gun unholstered.
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight? Well, don't bring a gun to a knife fight, either.
This particular guy shot someone 5 times and killed him. He pulled that same gun out on police. Pretty safe assumption at that point that it is working correctly. The cops overdid it. But that guy, like someone else said, chose suicide by police. To imply that guy should have walked away without several bullets in his ass at the least is insane.
So you want to have the right to OWN a gun, but you wouldn't have the balls to use it if some guy 20' feet away with a knife comes at you?
Um. OK.
(Pussy.)
Buckaroo Banzai
BINGO, as most LE shootings occur at 21' or less, the same distance a person w/ a blade can get to an armed holstered weapon carrier, and gut him.So, if a dude has a blade and he is this close you had better have pistol/revolver in hand.
It is somewhat comical that most people think the advantage always lies with the individual armed with a gun. Cops and criminals alike seem to believe that just because they are armed in such a manner that they have the upper hand. Lot's of unarmed gunshot victims or perps jacked up on crack have continued to bring the fight and in many cases win. While you stand there dialoguing and thinking you have the upper hand, I'm already killing you in my mind...........
Also move sideways until you can manage to get pistol out.
Not the case you're talking about but:
When the deaf don't respect you..
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/112097619.html?tab=video&c=y
Holy shit.....30 upvotes for that....comparing a guy whith a GUN who KILLED another guy just seconds before and who DID pull out his GUN AT POLICE which he ALREADY just USED and comparing that to a homeless guy brandishing a KNIFE who DID NOT hurt anyone..
Your key conclusion is fine. Your comparison sucks. For people who blindly upvoted that you are nuts!
Bloombergs narrative was once again overtaken by the facts on the ground...lol.
I wonder if Bloomberg is simply jealous of all the publicity Chicago is getting from gun violence.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-shootings-chicago-...
Yeah, nineteen shot in Chicago between Thursday night and Friday morning...its illegal to carry there too. Part of that whole "Chicago values" thingy Rahm was yammering on about...lol.
Well, at least all this takes everyones attention off the guy that walked into the Family Research Council intending to kill as many as he could because he disagreed with them...and the Denver shooter telling his buddy he wanted to kill people a month or so before he lit up a movie theater.
Yep, we're all good here...carry on with the national gun control debate ;-)
Under-trained bozos in blue uniform shoot 12 rounds in practice annually. It is impossible to shoot accurately and dispassionately, when you are not in control of a situation. Thus, they spray and pray - 16 rounds in ten seconds in a case where one would suffice.
And these guys are supposed to handle the masses when the SHTF.... No wonder .gov orderd 1.4 billion rounds, Fat Ass jelly doughnut eating NYPD.. What a joke..
A joke indeed. I believe there is a minumum belt size of 44" required for female recruits in the NYPD.
Will the lamestream media cover this story?
Everything that is inconvenient to the powers that be is covered up anyway.
Premier Bloomberg: Do as I say, not as I do.
clearly, if stray bullets were "banned" all 14 bullets would have hit their intended target!
So, 10 of the 11 who were shot were hit by police bullets? Gee, imagine how much safer the pedestrians would have been if NYC had less restrictive carry laws, and there were less well-trained private citizens firing away as well!
I'd bet if the cops knew everyone was packing they might approach the scene a bit more carefully. Not only that but their spray and pray shooting spree would also have been less likely.
However, I know you are a government, statist troll and you fail to see the real issue of this story. That is that in order to "protect" you, the government lackeys are quite willing to kill/injure you. These fucking morons (and you, Dinky) have watched too many TV shows and seem to be unaware that if their shot misses their target... it still hits something.
If their shots miss the target, they still hit something. Were the police were using hollow-point rounds? From what I've read, a hollow-point will not exit from a body it enters. Therefore, how many innocent bystanders were - potentially - saved since the bullets would not exit the first victim and strike another innocent bystander? Let's all send letters of thanks to DHS for ordering bullets that will reduce collateral damage.
No, hollow points can exit...depends on where the victim is shot, how close, clothing etc.
MDB is surely flattered by your imitation.
Apparently in your peculiarly simplistic world, anyone who questions the wisdom of attempting to reduce gun violence by increasing the number of guns on the street is a "government, statist troll".
Apparently by your wisdom:
"Cops are TRAINED to deal with such situations, in blinding contrast to gun-toting private citizens."
Fab training there Dewdles.
Suck a Dik tinky. You foppish twit.
The people that are just now finding this site really blow me away.
Tinky
Check the states with least amount of gun control, and more armed citizens.The crime rates w/firearms goes down exponentially to the others,with fewer.
Still lying about this, huh?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state
This doesn't prove or disprove anything. Where is this data correlated with gun ownership rates and state laws?
New Hampshire and Vermont have the lowest rates, do they have a low rate of gun ownership and restrictive gun laws?
DosZap claims (repeatedly and incorrectly) that there's "exponentially less crime" in the states where the laws make it easy to get guns.
The data disproves that claim.
There are SOME states with permissive gun laws where there is less crime, but MOST states with permissive gun laws have HIGHER crime rates.
Did you look at the table under the map? Sometimes colored pictures don't convey all the relevant information.
Thanks. I was going to reference the same data. But of course most of the morons who react reflexively to posts such as mine above aren't interested in facts.
Yep. It's that whole, "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" problem.
Still, I'd suggest you take your gun control efforts and shove 'em up your ass. We may share a basic grasp of reality, but our interpretations and objectives couldn't be more different.
Guardian is a Brit Communist rag. They want govt to monopolize power by monopolizing violence. Lies, big Lies, and Govt Statistics.
The data's from the FBI.
Aside from the "communist" part, you're correct about the Guardian.
This is one reason why you still can in most states, you can buy TL II/III soft armor reasonably,(buy it while you still can if you live ,travel into such in areas) no need to wear in low crime areas,huge overpacked cities maybe not a bad idea.
But the significant point that you insist on missing is that the smart carriers do not want to be constrained in their rights and prerogatives by the consequence of the behavior of the stupid carriers. And for example as we see in your petulance here; ... we can't fix your stupid or the stupids you defend.
Imagine if the hundreds of millions of dollars in the inevitable lawsuits were paid from the NYPD pension fund instead of the General Fund.
Shhh, don't say things like that...now look, you made Richard Trumka book another hour with his therapist!
Ok, you're just a fucking state worshipping asshole.
Where's your talk about the cops being trained, proficient and trustworthy? Contrast all of the "friendly fire", mistaken identity, and outright murders by cops with all of the justified shootings by citizens with no bystander hit.
Your arguments are fucked, and stupid.
We need gun control in this country. All over this country, from small towns with no crime to courthouses to legislatures to college campuses to airports, there are roaming bands of costumed thugs brandishing weapons that they're incapable of safely operating. They call themselves "law enforcement", but we all know they're dangerous idiots who are easily scared and don't have an ability for rational thought in highly tense situations. Guns need to be taken away from people who don't know how to use them especially any assault rifles, sniper rifles, and automatic weapons as these weapons are only used to kill people (certainly not something an officer of the peace would carry).
We need gun control for police.
Bloomberg, billions everywhere and not a cop to train.
It is partly the terrorist attitude of American police - 'spray and pray' - kill the innocent along with the possibly guilty - 'Let God sort 'em out'.
And it is also the increasing war against a gun culture, avoiding hiring police who are 'firearms enthusiasts', and instead hiring idiots who panic and shoot blindly in a tense situation.
Use of firearms, and especially handguns, takes some substantial preparation. One must do a lot of mental preparation and practice for the 'moment of truth'.
Shooting for real is a matter of 'take your time, fast'. A warrior in deadly danger, with innocents nearby, MUST take that extra fraction of a second to aim accurately ... and must be well enough trained to be able to do that, reflexively ... sights ON THE TARGET and trigger pull WITHOUT FLINCHING that would take the trajectory of the bullet somewhere else.
But behind it all, is the fact that America's terrorist police state cops, have been encouraged that they will not be sanctioned when they kill and maim the innocent.
+100000
Shocking incompetence would be the kind interpretation but I'm afraid you are right: spray and pray and the rest is collateral damage.
This is how it's done when the right type people are hired as cops :
" Deputies found a 22-year-old man at the house holding a knife to the throat of a 17-year-old hostage. The spokesman says a deputy fired a single shot, killing the man, after he was told several times to drop and the knife and refused."
http://www.wsbtv.com/ap/ap/crime/ga-sheriffs-deputy-shoots-knife-wielding-suspect/nQBHj/
You forgot to tell us how it's done in Belgium.
New York City Cops They Ain't Too Smart
They shoot like Tony Soprano's guys.
Hey, wait a minute ...
Police responsible? I don't think so. They shot at this guy 46 times and only 6 shots went astray: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cAAM4TXPdw
/sarc
I can only assume that's cause they walked up to him for 39 kill shots just to make sure.
Good point.
You should note that was a separate incident that occured on July 1st. It is perhaps an even worse case of trigger happy cops. Six cops with police dog surround a guy who pulls a knife. Several shots were fired seconds after the guy hit the ground obviously struck many times. One could argue that the cops had many other options and were NOT in imminent danger. These two egregiously wreckless displays of incompetence should bring out a huge cry for reform in the NYPD. Bloomberg shuold take serious heat.
The one's shot by cops get a double payday, felony attempted murder against the dude who shot his boss, and the deep pockets of every agency that can possibly be tied to those cops.
Hopefully most were only slightly injured and will receive $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Hmmm ... maybe that's why the story faded so fast yesterday. I saw it when I first watched the news and figured that would fill the next 24 hour news cycle, but when I checked again a couple hours later it was demoted to just another news item.
I guess they didn't want to say the cops can't shoot straight!
I'm sure Bloomberg was drooling at the thought of more anti-gun propaganda until those facts rolled in. Man, that's gotta hurt.
Cops shoot nine innocent bystanders...NOTHING TO SEE HERE, MOVE ALONG...
And Bloomy had the balls to go on tv talking about gun control...
You know, to me, gun control is shooting the target, not the guy standing 10 feet away.
Exactly.
Let them prove first that they can control their own, before they get overly concerned with controlling mine.
I didn't see Bloomberg, but it should have been in the context of teaching police how to control their guns.
New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg was decrying gun violence in America on a local radio show Friday morning shortly before a gunman opened fire outside the Empire State Building.
The stunning coincidence occurred as Bloomberg was making his weekly Friday appearance on the John Gambling Show on WOR radio, which runs from 6 a.m. to 10 a.m.
Shortly after 9 a.m., a man who officials said had been fired from his job in a shop outside the Empire State Building returned to the scene, shot dead a former co-worker and then opened fire on police officers in a chaotic, rush-hour gunfight. The gunman also was killed, and at least nine people were wounded, city officials said.
PHOTOS: Shooting near Empire State Building
Within minutes of making his comments on the radio, Bloomberg appeared at a news conference to update the public on the shooting.
The issue of gun control had already been raised on the radio show Friday when Gambling played the heartbreaking cries of a New York City resident who had just lost her 13-year-old child to gunfire. "That was my baby!" she shrieks.
With that, Bloomberg launched into what has become his familiar call for an end to gun violence through greater gun control nationwide.
"I speak at too many funerals and read too many stories, and I just wonder what would I do if it was somebody that I love," Bloomberg said during the segment, which has since been posted on the city's website.
"It is just too many guns in the streets," he said, adding: "We are the only developed country in the world with this problem."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-empire-state-building-bloomberg-20120824,0,4184838.story
Bloomberg is an idiot.
Bloomberg is an idiot, as you say, and a dangerous one if you fear loss of liberty, of being Palestinianized.
In an interview with CNN in late July, Bloomberg told the commentator that police officers should not protect Americans who oppose gun control. “I don’t understand why the police officers of this country don’t stand up collectively and say: ‘We’re gonna go on strike. We’re not going to protect you unless you, the public, through your legislation, do what’s required to keep us safe [through more gun control].'"
And then what?
Bloomberg is an idiot fascist...I fixed it ;-)
Thanks, nmewn. The philosophy of people like Mayor Bloomberg is the philosophy of Joseph Stalin: any threat to the ruler must be met with maximum force especially when the victims are unarmed.
For the US government’s current version, a shot fired against the Empire, even though it can originate on foreign soil, requires complete retribution…in Pakistan’s case, to hit the shooter it may be necessary to kill every single man, woman and child in Pakistan. Only fair in the rules of Empire, of course.
Or, in the words of Bloomberg: Disarm your enemies and Shoot.
LOL, the cops don't protect you... They clean up the mess after the crime ended 5 minutes before they got there. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that cops have neither the duty, nor the resources, nor the legal obligation to protect anyone. Their legal function is to enforce consequences for lawbreakers--not to prevent lawbreaking in the first place.
Of course, demagogues like Bloomberg can't make their propaganda work on that basis, so they spread the lie that the cops are here to "protect us" so we don't have to worry about protecting ourselves.
Sodas don't kill people. Tyranny kills people.
Actually, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat!
Cops no longer 'protect' me and mine, as long as they never come within 100 yards of me and mine, or otherwise cause me or mine harm.
It's all theater. All that matters is what is on TV and what the sleepwalking masses retain in their minds.
Bloomberg (and the rest of the actors) give not a shit about truth.
apparently NYPD's training is," start shooting the moment you feel scared".
And Bloomy had the balls to go on tv talking about gun control...
You expect differnt from a billionaire w/armed thugs for protection 24/7?.And a Fascist?.
Typical from what one would expect, esp from that area of the US.
It's those sugary drinks in NYC.
Nevermind the fact that he ignored the law and elected himself to a 3rd term.... I guess term limits are for pussies. Barack for Prez 2020!
Who need criminals when you have such a police?
Collateral damage. Just like all the civilians killed in drone strikes. Move on, citizen. Nothing to see here.
Heres is the deal, Citizens who legally own guns are RESPONSIBLE for every round that comes out of the barrel Stray or not. If you injure or kill someone... you'll be either sued or prison.
Cops, they just get a slap on the wrist.
Either way. The point is they are going to keep trying and spin this to control our rights to own a gun, it is in thier agenda. People die from shootings everyday, why now report on almost every shooting.
On one hand they tell you the police are to protect you so you don't need a weapon. But that's not the fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
Result seems to be, new yorker will be much safer if you take guns out of cops hands.
At least they did not target the rescuers as US does with drone strikes:
"US drone strikes target rescuers in Pakistan – and the west stays silent
Attacking rescuers – a tactic long deemed by the US a hallmark of terrorism – is now routinely used by the Obama administration
The US government has long maintained, reasonably enough, that a defining tactic of terrorism is to launch a follow-up attack aimed at those who go to the scene of the original attack to rescue the wounded and remove the dead. Morally, such methods have also been widely condemned by the west as a hallmark of savagery. Yet, as was demonstrated yet again this weekend in Pakistan, this has become one of the favorite tactics of the very same US government."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/20/us-drones-strikes-target-rescuers-pakistan
It's comforting to know that Obama spreads his terrorism around. Why should he not terrorize Pakistanis when he does so to US citizens? Next think you know, Eric Holder will be giving weapons and ammo to Al Qaeda to shoot back at US troops.
The USA has aided Al Qeada in Libya and is now talking about doing so in Syria.
No, not like All civilians in drone strikes. Those people in NY did not know there was a Taliban standing beside them. I'm pretty sure in most cases they do in Afghanistan.
Just set you straight, I think we should have Never gone into Iraq and BEEN OUT of Afghanistan... a Long time ago.
The term "Taliban" has been applied broadly, sometimes referring to virtually any Pashtun. Pashtuns are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan. So killing someone in Afghanistan because they are standing next to a "Taliban" is no more reasonable than shooting someone in America because he was standing next to a white guy.
Not even to get into the fact that the Taliban were our allies, and we helped set them up. Anything prior to the last commercial break is ancient history.
I had just told my girlfriend last week that whenever you hear in the media that x number of officers or bystanders were shot or injured and they don't specifically say it was by the "official" bad guy, you can count on them be shot or injuried by the police. The media will lead people to believe it was the bad guy that did it but you have to listen very carefully. Even then I would wait for ballistic tests.
Well it sounds to me like you two have an excellent case study to demonstrate your point!
Looks like more people injured in 30 seconds in the US by the police than have been injured by terrorists in 11 years.
911 ! 911 ! 911 !
I want to throw up.
That's because for 11 years the terrorists have been busy killing people 'over there' so they don't have to kill people here at home. But that is changing.
To make an omlet, you gotta break a few eggs.
In all seriousness, police training has not kept up with the equipment they are given. They need to fire quickly to get the drop on the guy, but after the first three shots, stop and find C&C.
yeah it is a lack of trainig. every darn time government agents murders an innocent bystander it is because the goverment needs more money. we can reduce this kind of murder and save billions by firing a minium of fifty percent of the current gov agents
Since he didn't have his gun out they should have just followed him. Poor training and an over eager police force gets you these types of results every time.
Give the cops billy clubs. The citizendum will at least have a fighting chance that way.
So this whole urban warfare thing is going to be fun.
If Cops supposedly trained to shot with accuracy can't hit their intended targets, can't imagine that average well armed dopes aim.
"how about a nice game of chess" come to mind.
Why don't you go to a gun range and find out.
Most Americans that own firearms have never been to a gun range. It's getting difficult to even find a suitable one in many parts of the country.
To assume that most ordinary people are proficient in the use of the firearms they own is stupid nonsense. I personally know many that own firearms that they have never shot. They plan on using them the first time when the bad mofo breaks into their house.
Most Americans that own firearms have never been to a gun range
Depends on where you live, I have several within inddor and outdoor within 75 miles.You must wait every weekend for an open lane, with over 18 lanes avail, and more than one person can share the one range.Not counting packed CCW classes EVERY weekend, and also during the week to a lesser degree.
Yeah, the public outdoor ranges in my area all have an average half hour wait for a lane. Go to the local outdoor one on a weekend and you could be standing for over an hour waiting for a slot but its a small 6 lane one. Often whole families are there on one lane for a couple of hours and quite a few little kids learning the ropes with a .22.
Absolutely. Because shooting at a range, on a clear and sunny Saturday morning, at a static and inanimate target, which is incapable of shooting back, is pretty much the same as shooting at a hostile flesh and blood target who is shooting back at you, from a not-immediately-known location, in a crowd of innocent people. Range Warriors! God bless'em!
Fought in a lot of close quarter firefights have you?
A few week's ago several posters---and I'm not accusing you---boasted that they would have taken out Holmes at that Colorado theater. Sure. A dark and crowded theater. Absolutely. Fire at the flash? Would that be at the flash, to the left of the flash, or to the right of the flash? And is the shooter AND the crowd static?
You make some rather idiotic assumptions there, Lizzy.
Par for the course.
Lizzy360's other greatest hits:
Lizzy360 made this statement one week before it came out Carney did back door bailouts of many corporations and banks in '08 - '09....
Etc
Lizzy is an establishment apologist and here we find out she would find a revolution amusing in respect to any blood shed by We the People when defending our rights from tyranny.
Unless you can point to where I made that statement on Mark Carney and Bernanke, I am guessing you MADE THEM UP.
I am also going to suggest that you have no clue what "establishment apologist" means if you think I am the defination of one.
But given your propensity for making things up I am not suprised.
Newsflash: "WE THE PEOPLE" don't fucking exist. We the people are too fat and god damn lazy to get off the couch to do something about being bent over EVERY SINGLE DAY by the "establishment". EXACTLY WHAT THE HELL HAVE "we the people" done since 2008? WHAT?Banks got the money, bonuses were record highs in 2010, bank lobbyists wrote the new banking rules, and Citizens United is going to let a bunch of billionaires influence the electoral process in the most corrupt 3rd world fashion possible. So you tell me what "we the fucking people" have done against the tyranny of the elite?
As for any supposed revolution - don't presume to know what i think about ANYTHING.
My disdain for people who rape "we the people" is only matched by my disdain for "we the people" who bend over daily.
Hear, hear! Lizzy for President! I think I can get you a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth if needed. We can say you're just visiting Canada.
Challenge accepted. I will find your posts where you told me Mark Carney has done what he should for the BoC (it was the week before it came out they too had made loans under the table to worldwide corporations and banks they had never before disclosed) and I will find where you show your true colors as a banker apologist.
Lizzy, you post here. We know who you are. So don't tell me no t to presume. You opened yourself up the day you began posting here. And once again, I will find your lullabye posts about Mark Carney. And then we will see who lies.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news to your friends Lizzy360, for they have stood up for you.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/path-global-goldmanation-former-goldmanite-mark-carney-heading-boe-after-all#comment-2653332
I am not sure where Carney wants to be PM of Canada, and my dislike of a one term MP (equivalent to a congressman in the US) whose greatest attribute is being a member of the lucky sperm club, some how proves your point that i am an "establishment apologist".
Since they don't come anymore establishment that Justin Trudeau.
READ THIS FOR COMPREHENSION:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/and-so-it-began
Now if you somehow still believe that I am an establishment apologist, than i can only assume that you are either illiterate, or your deductive reasoning skills never made it past third grade.
You once told me that Mark Carney had done a good job as Chair of the BoC, unlike, to use your favorite term, the "Yanks". I pointed out he was GS, and you said not everyone who is GS is bad.
Do you not remember your own conversations? If you don't, then not only are you an establishment apologist, you are an idiot.
Also, I have seen your comment that Bernanke is just using economic policy the way that economists think he should and that he means no harm. Well Lizzy some people around around, I being one of them, think Bernanke knows exactly what he is doing.
If you can't admit that you think that Central Bankers are trying their best for the good of the world right now, then you have changed your mind, because you have repeatedly written that Carney did a swell job for Canada and that Bernanke is trying to use Neo-Keynsian policy for the greater good.
Lizzy you make me sick.
Oh and fuck you.
Wow, you have lots of free time, researching the wit and wisdom of lizzy36. Is lizzy36 that much of a threat to society? Just my opinion, but better to get the easy ones first, like Jamie and Lloyd. Conservation of resources and all that. Lizzy36 might be a hard catch.
You still filing suit against Max Keiser for "stealing" your copyrighted idea to Crash JPM? Hate to see you pass away from this world underappreciated. I guess you can take comfort in knowing that at least Jamie loses sleep each and every night knowing that Mr Lennon Hendrix is after him, and that Max is merely an impotent usurper.
You are partially correct. Most average dopes aren't well armed though. I can see an average dope picking up a nice weapon off the body of a downed paramilitary officer, but they probably won't be able to rack it or find the safety.
The illiterate Afghans and Somalis don't seem to have any difficulty using modern firearms.