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Watch The GOP Presidential Forum Live From South Carolina

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Since it will be a slow news day until futures open in a few hours, readers who are locked indoors can waste it by listening to the oddly named Palmetto Freedom Forum which is basically another GOP presidential debate where candidates will take to the stage one at a time to substantively answer questions on their views from three panelists: South Carlolina Sen. Jim DeMint, Rep. Steve King of Iowa, and Dr. Robert George, founder of the American Principles Project and McCormick Professor of Jurisprudence at Princeton University. The participating candidates will include the major GOP contenders: Rep. Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Rep. Ron Paul, and Mitt Romney. As Townhall observes: "Sen. DeMint, et al's questioning is sure to challenge the participants on the hard-hitting issues, and should serve as a great preview to this Wednesday's GOP debate." That said, Rick Perry, and his Bank of America supporters, will be materially missing so no hard-hitting answers from the Texan.

Live Video streaming by Ustream

 

h/t Townhall and John McCloy

 

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Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:37 | 1635562 freethinker4now
freethinker4now's picture

Give em Hell Ron

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:57 | 1635629 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

I want Paul to take it too, but the media is already telling everyone who THEY want, perry or Romney. Seems like they got the whole damn 14 months planned out already,

Will Paul run anyway without the GOP ticket?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:09 | 1635673 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Perry and Romney are the clear front runners, and for good reasons. Ron Paul is simply UNELECTABLE, so there is no point wasting time and money on his campaign. Besides, his extreme views on economics are at odds with those of the world's top economists and financial institutions. Who do you believe about the economy, an Ivy League phd Professor, nobel laureate like Dr Paul Krugman, or a gynecologist? I know who I believe.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:24 | 1635718 unununium
unununium's picture

I hope you're posting this quality sarcasm at the WSJ. The trollops there won't get it,and will mod you up!  Like the ones here who are modding you down.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:59 | 1635725 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

Wanna bet AU 1oz that Ron is ELECTABLE?! Although I agree. Some of his views are controversial but that's what we need in the discussion right now.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:03 | 1636169 Herbert Philbrick
Herbert Philbrick's picture

Ron Paul's views?  Does that include the racist and anti-Semitic articles that appeared in his newsletter back in the day?  Yeah, I'd agree that some of "his views" are controversial, but I don't think we need them.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:30 | 1636466 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Maybe, he denies he wrote it. Times different then. You go back to see other politicians from that time. Robert Byrd, great Democrat, now dead, but he wizard in KKK, filibuster Civil Rights, later apologized.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 22:32 | 1636890 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

and no senator, nearly no u.s. politician, was more prescient and eloquent about the fiasco that the wars in the islamic world would become.

it is good that ron paul is said to be unelectable and that romney and perry are in the lead.  gives paul the cachet of the downtrodden and the forbidden while letting the bozos knock each other out.

if the wtc going down, looking like controlled demolition, after passenger planes hit them, followed by the election, by a comfortable margin, of someone who looks like barack obama and answers to that name (but governs like bush) doesn't impress on one the futility of predicting political events in the u.s. during interesting times, what would?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:30 | 1635743 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Please commence to fuck yourself with a brass-plated cactus, troll! Dr. Paul is the only guy in the race that hasn't been obviously bought and paid for by the banksters (not that he might not have been bought rather more quietly, of course, but I doubt it.) I can see this quite plainly. And I ain't even US-ian. And therefore can't vote in this upcoming charade. Though, quite frankly, I doubt any of YOU are gonna be voting in it, either. The result is now collated electronically, I'm told... no possibility of corruption there, then.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:44 | 1635798 Thomas
Thomas's picture

i caught part of RP and am in the middle of Romney. It seems clear Paul has influenced Romney's platform. In particular, Romney came out of the gate supporting states' rights. I am exceedingly distrustful, but so far Romney is talking the talk. 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:19 | 1636230 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Do you have any clue what "state's rights" really means south of the Mason-Dixon line?

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:22 | 1636245 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I do.  It means "State's Rights."  Are you insinuating it means something else?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 22:37 | 1636907 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

historically it has meant keeping blacks in chains real or de facto.  

i would be very careful about using something romney said (perhaps other than corporations are people too) to predict anything he would actually do.  he is as slippery as obama.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:27 | 1636312 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Do you have any clue what "state's rights" really means south of the Mason-Dixon line?"

I do. I live "south of the Mason-Dixon line".

But why don't you go ahead and give me your version of what I think it means anyways, just for shits & giggles.

Edit: That was interesting ;-)

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:36 | 1636738 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

By all means, amuse me with your definition o left coast idiot.

One thing it does mean here is that outside of target practice and crab bait, we have little to no use for you or New England.  I suspect this point will be made rather forcefully later this decade, but time will tell.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 22:40 | 1636917 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

"one thing it does mean here" "we have little to no use for you or new england"  oh right.  it's a club.  a fight club.  

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:20 | 1636232 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I, too, was struck by the extent of the Paulization of Romney.  Romney came out of the gate with the notion that citizens are sovereign and government is not.  Candidate Romney had better not set foot in Virginia, because the Virginia Fusion Center has classified "Sovereign Citizens" as terrorists, and the Virginia State Police would probably arrest him.

Soon we will have eminem doing "will the real Ron Paul please stand up, please stand up..."

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:25 | 1636437 Tunga
Tunga's picture

Corporations!!! They're People!!!-Charlton Romney

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:40 | 1637057 pods
pods's picture

He just got it backwards:  People, they're corporations.

pods

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:39 | 1636509 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Paul is gaining traction so it is natural for other candidates to adopt "safe" aspects of his candidacy.  One or two may even espouse some of his radical stuff if it makes them more electable.  But relax, if elected the radical stuff will be quickly forgotten.  See Obama, Barrack.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:19 | 1635881 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Mitz: we have a local radio-guy who is working on the distinction of "vote with your head" vs. "vote with your heart" and all of the antecedent actions.

Cases in point:

  • H in '92 split the R vote, result: Clinton.
  • Nader in '00, skimmed off just enough of the D vote in FL, result: W.
  • etc.

But there might be a market for brass-plated cacti--you ought to get some up E-Bay.  There will be plenty of buyers if only to purchase as presents for others.  If

"... I ain't even US-ian."

then what are you?  Newbeez are OK, but, well ....

- Ned

{I had the discussion with 'young skull full of mush' about this as he was growing up.  Same subject, different direction: 'Lad, think w/the Big head, even though u wish to think w/Small head.  Advice still working (well, to the best of my knowledge ;-) }

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:31 | 1636468 Tunga
Tunga's picture

How 'bout vote with a pen instead of electrons? Such primitive thoughts has the Tunga tonight.

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:18 | 1636227 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

you mean like how the latest Nobel Peace Prize winner waged an undeclared war on another country that wasn't threatening the USA?

Yes, them Nobel prizes, should be held to such high esteem.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 22:43 | 1636918 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

countries.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:41 | 1636749 mahalopamala
mahalopamala's picture

 I respect your difference of opinion.  I do not agree that Dr. Ron Paul is unelectable.  When I decide who I will vote for, I evaluate someone by researching their accomplishments, who they associate with, who their mentors are, what values they hold dear, how well they have done in their chosen vocations, and most importantly whether they are characterized by truthfulness and steadfastness.  I have voted for Dr. Ron Paul in two elections, I am a constituent of his residing in the 14th congressional district of Texas. I believe his non-mainstream ideas are exactly what is needed if we are to make major changes in where this country is headed. Don’t just take my word for it, research him yourself.  His truthfulness, record of voting in congress, and his steadfast hold on his beliefs exemplify a person who is above reproach.

Dr. Ron Paul is not only an Obstetrician /Gynecologist, he is multi-faceted. As a long time advocate of the Austrian School of Economics, his views ARE the polar opposite of Dr.Krugman's. Dr. Krugman is a man who has achieved much in his field of Keynesian Economics. There are considerable differences in these two schools of thought. Without writing a tome on the subject, I think the differences can be summarized in one question. Is it good for the citizens of America to expand central federal government and for us to turn to government for all of our economic and other needs? If you answer yes, you might find the ideas of Keynesian economics quite palatable.  If you answer with a resounding NO, then you might possibly agree with some of the tenants of adherents to Austrian Economics.

Top economists and heads of the world's financial institutions have gotten us into the global mess we are in now. Consider this- many Ivy League grads are brilliant, and have achieved notable prizes, shaped national and international monetary policies, become key economists, bankers, politicians and enjoy access to amazing opportunities because of their pedigree.

I did my research, and could fill many pages with Ivy League School graduates and Nobel Laureates that have contributed to world economics and business schools of thought.  Here are a few notable people from that list you might enjoy reading more about. Timothy Geithner, graduate of Dartmouth College, former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and now is the US Secretary of the Treasury. He is an influential man and his track record and contributions are well documented.  Alan Greenspan, graduate of Columbia University in New York, who was the Chairman of the Federal Reserve board of Governors from 1987-2006 and now, is the head of his own consulting firm.  This man greatly shaped monetary policy globally and at home in the USA.  Murray Rothbard, graduate of Columbia University in New York, an American author and economist who wrote over twenty books and who is considered an important figure in the American libertarian movement.  Frederich Hayek, a Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics recipient- Nobel Laureate- and influential author was inarguably a major influence on the field of Economics. Interesting quote concerning this fascinating man: “There is no figure who had more of an influence, no person had more of an influence on the intellectuals behind the Iron Curtain than Friedrich Hayek. His books were translated and published by the underground and black market editions, read widely, and undoubtedly influenced the climate of opinion that ultimately brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union.”—Milton Friedman* (Hoover Institution)

Of the four men mentioned above Geithner and Greenspan are among the experts that are in harmony with Dr. Paul Krugman.

Dr. Ron Paul has acknowledged that he respects some of the ideas of Rothbard and Hayek (among many others including the authors of the United States Constitution).  It seems to me that these men are also considered some of the world’s top economists. 

 Don’t just rely on sound bites of media or uninformed opinion pieces to determine who you should support.  PLEASE research and evaluate each candidate for the Republican nomination in light of your own personal beliefs.  I think there will be a lot of people on the ZH community who would agree with me that Dr. Ron Paul is a man of honor and would be an excellent candidate, and President!

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 01:33 | 1637304 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

 

 

For all your research, though, you have to admit...  it got you nothing.  

In 2008, Ron Paul won only 14 (*LOL*) of the Republican presidential primary delegates.  1191 is needed to win the Republican nominee which McBush got, but then went on to loose the general election by a landslide.

RP is just a small pimple on the gigantic horse ass of American politics.  Your vote for Bugs Bunny would be equally influential.

 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 08:39 | 1637813 mahalopamala
mahalopamala's picture

When refuting MillionDollarBonus, I stated my beliefs.  I think that I was able to get everything from being true to myself.  In our congressional district 14, we have gotten what we wanted- namely Ron Paul being re-elected several times so that he can continue to represent the values our community believes in.

To me, the ultimate goal is that Dr. Paul's willingness to talk about real issues will help the people of this country to wake up and realize there is more than one way to think, govern, and live. The false right and left politics we have had to endure for so long must crumble. In my opinion, as you refer to him as small and insignificant, remember that what appears to be small and insignificant can become very large and influential.

If the establishment is against Ron Paul- I am even more for him.  What we need is local and state government and a very small very limited central government.  Many people do not share this philosophy which is why he did not get significant delegate votes.  Not winning the popularity contest does not dilute the message.

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:31 | 1635745 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Fuck it, it just tuned into CNN to watch Paul, and CNN cut to an anchor calling him controversial and went to Commerical.

Fuck it all. What's the point of caring about any politics.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:23 | 1635898 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

ifg, you really can't trust CNN.  Our Dear President was on the vaunted "Bus Tour" and he was so boring that they had the video of him reading TOTUS while the "Anchor" was commentatoring on blah blah blah.

- Ned

{then he finishes the "speach", rode out of town in the Canadian built bus, boarded the helo, and married up with the bus just before the next "stop"}

{{Did I mention that you can't trust CNN.  Jane Fonda is on Boomberg (with Charlie Rose) pissing all over Turner, even though she "loves him" eternally.}}

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:02 | 1636605 malalingua
malalingua's picture

Here you go Id fight Gandhi, just the Ron Paul part without commercials.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EsMMkiEgQs&feature=youtu.be

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:21 | 1636687 Mark Noonan
Mark Noonan's picture

Geesh, what were you doing watching CNN?  I bet they had it on C-Span...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:07 | 1636189 knukles
knukles's picture

Bachman/Perry New World Overdrive

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:41 | 1636517 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Slogan?  Taking care of business!

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 05:05 | 1637526 chipshot
chipshot's picture

paul/perry might get er' done.....

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:43 | 1635790 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

OK, who are you and what have you done with Mitt Romney? You sound like... oddly... Ron Paul.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:45 | 1635800 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Exactly (see above).

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:32 | 1636473 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Obviously Ron Paul doing well in the polls :)

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:55 | 1635987 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

I really don't see how any of you can believe in Ron Paul - the guy is the obvious 'next guy' the NWO plan to foist on us, just like the other Repub missfits on the ticket are clearly just meant to make him look comparitively better.

 

This talk of him being ignored by the mainstream is a JOKE.  Jon Stewart IS the mainstream, so how can he have Ron Paul on to complain about the mainstream ignoring RP?  And really: as if RP would have made it onto the Repub ticket if the NWO didn't want him there.  Sheesh.

 

The Repubs and Dems (and all their incoherent ideologies) are just puppet shows meant to trick us time and again.  Didn't you fools learn anything from the Obama deception?  And don't come telling me that RP has more history and experience, more proof of legitimacy: none of RP's anti-war votes ever made a difference (they were just meant to prepare him for the appearance of legitimacy today), just like none of his goofy libertarian bills ever amounted to anything either.  And here's what's most telling: RP is still as calm as ever, even though we have seriously fallen into fascism and even though none of his actions ever amount to anything.  Shouldn't he be a bit more concerned?

 

Anyhow, I don't wish to repeat myself: you can find a whole bunch more reasons why he's a fake on my http://betterinfos.com/fakes.html page - no point repeating myself...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:21 | 1636043 akak
akak's picture

Respectfully, fuck you.

You have NO idea what you are talking about when it comes to Ron Paul --- no idea at all.  I do not idolize him, as I do not idolize any politician, but his honesty, integrity and consistency when it comes to his political positions are above reproach, and anybody trying to cast hysterical and blanket accusations against him is clearly grinding an ideological ax for the Establishment and status-quo.

Your dishonesty and malicious attacks on the man reveal your true purpose, and it is clearly NOT to further the public good nor rational discussion.  Begone troll.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:33 | 1636071 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Wow - you really care a lot about this politician, huh?

 

As my link further below shows, he won't question the official report on 9/11 now, just like he never will later.  How is that "honesty, integrity"?  It surely is consistency though.

(repost of said link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYSKCfsLuuE )

 

Is my post hysterical?  I'm sorry, but it is patently false to claim that the mainstream media is ignoring him, when in fact he shows up on Jon Stewart and countless other mainstream shows.  TPTB always try to give us what we want, and they know that we want someone 'real', someone who is not a part of the mainstream.

 

How is that not a rational observation?  How is your extreme reaction, swearing and hate not an example of irrationality?  Did you try to actually argue against any of my points?  Nope, you just went with ad-hominem attacks, name calling and blanket statements in favor of your 'savior'.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:25 | 1636435 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Joke. Today wife's mother asked who is this Ron Paul, didn't even know he running for President. When wife told her Paul almost win Iowa, she didn't believe it because she didn't hear it.

Wife's mother think Bachmann looks KRAZY. LOL, is it who you support?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:33 | 1636728 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

I don't support any of them.  Why would I limit my choices to only those losers who make it onto the Republican ticket?  They are all sellouts to TPTB.  I certainly don't support Obama (that god-damned fake) or any of the Democrats, either, that's for sure.

 

The only politician whom I am aware of that seems legitimate is Cynthia McKinney (now in the Green party, I believe).  She asked hard questions on 9/11 and got truly demonized for it - she certainly doesn't show up on the mainstream anymore except to get slammed by their blowhards, so I'd say she is real.  One way or another I'll never vote Republican or Democrat again: it's a guarantee that, having passed the vetting process of either party, they are almost surely rotten.

 

How about looking outside of the 2 parties?  You could pick a random person off the streets, and so long as you vetted that they weren't a member of the free masons or some other craptastic secret society, you would end up with someone a million times better than RP or the rest.

 

Anyhow, it's pretty pathetic how I've been down-rated so much and yet not a single one of my detractors has managed to argue against the points I raised against Ron Paul.  Do they all just vote and decide things emotionally?  I am convinced that full-blown revolt is the only way we'll fix our country, but I guess many of you still think that your vote and mainstream candidate will somehow work out.  As if the political stories being told about RP or the election in general are any more true than the BS we are told about Libya.  Wake up already, people!  It's all propaganda.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:44 | 1636759 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Georgia Peach?! OMG, that's funny, she is bat shit crazy. You SHOULD stay home and not vote, LOL!!

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 06:59 | 1637038 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"it's pretty pathetic how I've been down-rated so much "

Don't take it personally ... ZH is full of dishonest NWO agents and honest RP 'believers'.

You got my uprates, Chris. I've looked at your blog and I disagree with one of your solutions (protests) and one of your assessments (on Max Keiser), but I believe you have put them forward with full integrity after actually thinking about what you are saying. (In any event, if you ask 100 people to put up solutions, you'll get 80 different answers ... which is why democracy CAN'T work and is certainly not the solution!)

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 07:32 | 1637637 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Thanks Bro!  What are some of your preferred ideas to solve this, if not for protests (revolt)?  I am always looking for more things to add to that list of 'WhatToDo' (and I'm open to change).  Also, do you feel that Max is all bad, rather than 'moderately good', or is it that you like him 100%?  I gather it's likely not the later, but I'm curious as to your reasons (maybe it's simply the fact you do not believe in protest?).  Better yet, if you have any other sites you think would be particularly worth highlighting / promoting (and reading myself), I'm curious to know about 'em.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 11:19 | 1638342 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I'm against protests because: a) they don't work; and, b) they expose participants to police profiling and violence. They are also easily sabotaged by agents provocateurs and then branded by the media as 'just a bunch of anarchists'.

For example, the US did not pull out of the 20-year Vietnam War in 1973 because of the 1960's protest movements or the 1970 Kent State Massacre, but rather because the US had run out of money and body bags and the globalists were therefore already moving to a new strategy of rapprochement with both Russia and China to build up their military-industrial capabilites in preparation for the de-industrialisation of America and Europe.

Since the globalists rely on merging sovereign states into larger and larger 'unions' (eg. the ever-expanding EU, North American Union, African Union, APEC, and even the 50-state USA itself from an initial 13 states) until they will soon merge the 'unions' into one global government, or New World Order, my strategy is to thwart this by promoting secession of sovereign states back to local representative governments under republican or nationalist ideals. The original American Constitution of 1776 needs to be restored and the 14th Amendment of 1868 (which overturned the principles of the 1776 Constitution and effectively rescinded it) needs to be repealed. This can only be achieved by political activism at the county and state levels in the US, and in the national parliaments in the EU. Protests (begging the overseers) will not achieve anything and you will encounter more resistance from your fellow serfs than you will from your overseers ... "hush now, lest the master hears you!".

As for Max: I believe that Stacy is a naive Marxist and that Max is a confirmed statist and armchair socialist. As to whether they are witting or unwitting tools of the NWO, I'm undecided ... but Max is certainly pushing the NWO's AGW Tax-On-Breathing and is claiming that the 'Arab Spring' is a 'people-power' movement (it was actually an obvious NWO strategy to remove Mubarak and Ben Ali before going into Libya unopposed by Egypt and Tunisia, and then to remove Assad from Syria before going after Iran). One of the globalists' objectives in MENA is to remove all Shi'ite rulers and influence from Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As for recommending other sites: I don't have any recommendations. I use ZH as a primary source through insightful comments and occasional interesting links by commenters that lead me to explore new paths down the rabbit hole, but I find that nearly every alternative site has a disinformation component and that they all must be read with brain fully engaged to sort the wheat from the chaff. Disinformation and fear-mongering are everywhere! (eg. Alex Jones has the most comprehensive anti-globalist analyses, but he is also a knowing tool of the Luciferians and deliberately keeps the fear meter on 10).

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 14:38 | 1638588 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Thank you for your thoughtful reply, i-dog.  I think we are mostly on the same page (if I can be so presumptuous), as if you consider the details of how I propose we protest/revolt, you will see that I explicitly argue against protesting 'hard' and getting all beat up: things will only change (IMO) if we can get numbers so vast (eg: 50% population) that it becomes impossible to contain or deny.  This is not a question of asking/begging for change from abusive power-addicts and professional liars: it's about making fundamental change undeniable (eg: no more members of secret societies elected to office or working for government, no more backroom deals deciding things, when the internet makes it possible for everything to be publicly available).  Based on my program, people should be spending 99% of their time spreading the truth and the reasons for revolt, and 1% meeting up to validate progress, until critical mass is achieved.

 

Also, I think that the police profiling you mention is already occuring through the internet and that all our actions online are monitored to such a degree that just visiting sites like ZH probably makes you a part of the dreaded 'red list'.  I don't doubt they have details of most online activity (esp. posts and opinions) for each and every citizen - a database with a few hundred million entries is small potatoes, nowadays.  Furthermore, when the well stated plan is for a 92% reduction in world population and world-government totalitarianism, people who hide and survive will end up with a worse fate than those who fight and (maybe) perish.  I will live free or die - there are no two ways about it!

 

Incidentally, by some accounts the war in Vietnam was mainly for the oil nearby (forget which sea), with our airforce spending the entire duration of the war dropping bombs into said sea in an early form of echo-mapping to determine the detailed whereabouts of all that oil.  The war ended once they were done with that work (certainly not due to the protests, which were indeed ineffective), and once Vietnam started taking bids for oil extraction a few years later, the US companies 'miraculously' ended up picking all the good plots.  That being said, the one thing that makes me think that widespread revolt is possible today is a) the internet and alternative news sources and b) the fact that everyone is seeing their finances and job prospects obliterated on purpose by our elites.

 

In any case, I don't know if my suggested course of action is truly old-style protest (which I agree is basically pointless) - it's rather a question of forcing the question of popular will regardless of all their efforts to subvert it.  As this video on the vote fraud machines makes clear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhBtfiRKaVY ), regular voting and political activism cannot achieve anything anymore, so I don't see how your secessionist movement (which I wholly support) can work without open revolt.

 

Regarding the secessionist movement you propose, I think we are on the same page regarding my 'protest in every city and town', and in particular it is easiest to organize and succeed with revolt at smaller dimensions than at larger ones.  Small communities have the best (only?) odds at succeeding (eg: Iceland), and any success they have would serve as momentum for the rest...

 

Regarding Max Keiser, I agree with everything you said and will be updating my site with the other reasons you mention for doubting him (eg: the fake 'Arab Spring').  I still feel that there is benefit to MK, since he keeps the focus on the criminal banksters and presents things in a popular format, but this recent interview with PCR was telling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMvQFkFRjtw&feature=player_detailpage#t=1... ) - Max was very quick to interrupt PCR and state unequivocally that protest in the US (his main market) is impossible...  Isn't he supposed to be all about GIABO?

 

In any case, you've given me much food for thought and I will spend some time fine tuning the text on my website.  Thanks again!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:09 | 1636196 Herbert Philbrick
Herbert Philbrick's picture

Be sure and read the last paragraph...  http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/angry-white-man

Wed, 09/07/2011 - 08:19 | 1641549 proteus
proteus's picture

i checked out your page - its pretty good.  special props for mentioning Alan Watt he is indeed excellent.  i am mostly active on youtube now because that's where it is easiest to reach people - visit my channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/g1981c

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:04 | 1636368 LedMizer
LedMizer's picture

And if not Dr. Paul I sure would like to see Jim DeMint run.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:41 | 1635571 tyler
tyler's picture

Neo-cons are disgusting.  My stomach won't let me watch and wait for Paul to speak.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:59 | 1635636 High Wire
High Wire's picture

This.  I had to turn it off.  This is an example of an ecosystem desperately in need of a preditor..

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:37 | 1636077 FrY10cK
FrY10cK's picture

This is an example of an ecosystem desperately in need of a preditor...

One that would bite their heads off, figuratively speaking. This predator could even be the moderator, a journalist of some sort... If such creatures still existed.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:03 | 1635792 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

 

Not going into details but I just will say this, neocons aka the pnac cabal have screwed up big time when it come to foreign and domestic polices but on the other hand that was the plan. Milk the only cow that was left in town, that is government tit! Free money! Eight years later,” Mission Accomplished”! America is broke! SS is broke! 45 million people on food stamps! Savings rates at zero! Unemployment extensions for unemployed, the 99ers! Etc..... Obama Care just an extention of milking the cow this time by the other side .... the big f-ing deal for the Democrats!

The problem is that after two terms of Bush Junior and the Darth Vader, America has lost not only face abroad but what's more important is loosing hearts and minds of other peoples.

 

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:55 | 1635989 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

But thank heaven for hope and change, eh?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:47 | 1636542 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

More like "Rope and change"!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:25 | 1635902 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Who in the field b 'Neo-cons'.

Ya gotta' b clear in these here parts, cuz we need to discriminate out the targetz.

- Ned

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:01 | 1636363 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

You need to acquire a taste for them.... We will be serving them for dinner soon.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:43 | 1635579 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I didn't know you had good Golf Courses in south Carolina....

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:44 | 1635583 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

These people are discussing the major issues that we should all focus on?

We are doomed.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:48 | 1635597 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Is Herman Cain a joke candidate? No sarc here, he seems extremely unintelligent, I dont get it, who would give this guy money? I'm baffled.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:51 | 1635606 akak
akak's picture

And just where the Hell did this Huntsman clown come from?  As if the campaign needed yet ANOTHER kneejerkedly pro-war, big government RINO!  Plus, the man sounds like he is on the verge of crying every time he opens his mouth.  And they say that Ron Paul needs voice training!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:07 | 1635667 Michael
Michael's picture

Maybe one of the candidates could draw us a flow chart of the money tree where the $15 trillion from the Federal Reserve went, and where that money is now.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:30 | 1635920 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Ag, have another dose, u will do well tomorrow and will be able to afford a bigger dose.

"I'm baffled."

Evidently.

You should take your crie de coeur as a serious wake up call to unfuck your prejudiced mind and figure out how a man who has done something significant got there.  Then the homework starts.

Best Regards,

- Ned

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:49 | 1635601 Segestan
Segestan's picture

What is Rick Perry ..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkMkJ5s1j0I

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:09 | 1635607 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Whoa, Herman Cane just advocated sound money and just mentioned liberty and what Ronald Reagan said.

Just what Ron Paul has been advocating for all his 12 terms in congress.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:52 | 1635610 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

I gave up puppet shows when they started using wireless earphones to connect to the dummy instead of using regular string.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:54 | 1635618 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Fuck that, I'm sure I'll hear all the dumb remarks printed later. I'll watch big trouble in little china in the meantime.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:55 | 1635621 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Whoa, Newt Gingrich blasts the feds over the raid on Gibson Guitars.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:59 | 1635999 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

This is the proper way to treat a Gibson:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:55 | 1635626 pan
pan's picture

Enough with Lincoln already!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:57 | 1635631 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Whoa, Newt Gingrich leans on Thomas Jefferson and mentioned an oligarchy.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:03 | 1635654 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

It is the co-opting of ideas all in acts of desperation to prevent the one person who will do exactly what he said when in office and nothing more.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:47 | 1635807 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Yup. Clinton was the master of Idea Commandeering.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:52 | 1635821 Anonymouse
Anonymouse's picture

Newt is a brilliant guy.  Unfortunately, he goes off on weird tangents too often (to be clear, I am not referring to Jefferson or the oligarchy mention as weird.  It's the other stuff like AGW). 

For every two good ideas he has, he'll have 1 crazy one.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:08 | 1636978 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

No.  More like he has 73 crazy ideas and 1 semi good idea every so often.  A couple idiot. 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 15:59 | 1635638 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

And wtf with msnbc, what is their obsession with prison show marathons every weekend and holiday??

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:36 | 1635930 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

ifg: look at the ownership structure.  Then look up more.  Then (hint: why was Spector the "Senator: Comcast) look up the relationship that GE Capital Bank Holding Company (nee GE Capital) has w/USG, then look up who is in charge of making more jobs and was a great visitor to the WH, then look up the effectiveness of same over past coupla' yearz.

I'll connect more dotz for u if u need.

Don't forget the guyz on MessNBC, the whole crew.

- Ned

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:09 | 1636982 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Exactly.  If you want truly douchebaggery, you got to go to Faux.  Home of the true moron.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:02 | 1635646 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

And they are all using his talking points:

* Fed

*Gold Standard

*False Antiwar rhetoric.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:47 | 1635811 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Look on the bright side: It means his ideas are resonating.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 03:39 | 1637441 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

just enough to be co-opted, warped & mangled into a form to further enslave you

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:05 | 1635647 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Pay much attention to the recent ramp up in the attention the MSM is giving Palin once again. The kingmakers are not at all happy with the lack of traction that their puppets are getting with the American populace. They see falling Pres O numbers record Presidential lows only 3 years later and know the people are seeing a completely trumped up media concocted President who brought nothing to the table but the previous agenda and know that the American people are still only half awake yet cannot pinpoint the issues which remain solely at the feet of the Fed and the purchasing of our politicians.

    They are backed into a corner that they have never experienced before because of sites like ZeroHedge and because of the Internet along with the ability for the blue pillers to find solutions to what the actual problems are that are not coming from State TV such as MSNBC & Fox. They are petrified that Ron Paul is gaining numbers and know that any Paul voter in a poll is solid an unwavering but aware that all of the rest are fragile and can easily be turned to vote for a principled man who will return the govt to adherance to the Constitution which is the only piece of paper to ever exist that made us the exception to any power structure of rule ever in place.

   Aside from him being ignored just take a gander at this disgraceful "Conservative" magazine and the covers they recently ran showing your choices and see if you can spot the difference in the art between Ron Paul's cover and the subliminal innuendo and the MSM message given to Perry, Romney & Bachmann. I assure you it will make you disgusted

http://laboratoryofthestates.org/natrevcandidates.html

      There is many debates coming up and they need people like Gingrich, Santorum and Cain in the debates to dilute the message of what the true solution is and which candidate has the message that unshackles us from our Harvard, Yale & Princeton monarchy. That is why we are seeing talk of Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin once again.

1) TMZ runs story of her finishing 2nd in Marathon

2) Drudge linked to a speech she gave with her obscene tour bus which had the audacity to illustrate the constitution as if she will be anything but another puppet of the bankers and imperialists

3) Palin splashed quote of "There is more room in the GOP field" 2 days ago...They need voices in to dilute and want to appeal to the brainless and intend on running a Perry/Palin ticket

   They may have the MSM ammo and the sad fact that the majority of Americans are too busy decided what to purchase with their EBT's to even bother purchasing a book or doing their own research between episodes of Jersey Shore and Dancing with the Stars but they fear most of all that only Ron Paul can have the crossover of former Democratic voters into his column if only to vote for him in the GOP primaries and it petrifies them to the core. Not a single other candidate has crossover and after 3+ years of TOTUS continuing the Bush policies it may all come to an end.

  Not a soul in this election can match wits with him in the debate. This is for all the marbles.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:23 | 1635717 JustPrintMoreDuh
JustPrintMoreDuh's picture

The inverted fangs in Paul's charicature was a nice touch, with just a pinch of crazy for subtleness' sake.  

Fucking putrid shills.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:49 | 1635816 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Thanks for the covers, what's with the Soviet art of the Bachman & Rommeny covers? Creeepy I think.

Of course to the fucking RINO NR Paul is a cartoon, they are like the rest of the Decepti-cons.

Perry is the biggest joke, not even really a Decepti-con, he just babbles whatever sounds extreme right wing. Meanwhile, he keeps cashing the checks from the Rothschilds.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:01 | 1636003 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

You policy wonks are hopeless. The age of "policy" is coming to an end. What we need is someone who polarizes, who'll tear the country apart and spark off a civil war. Which is the only way to get rid of the bankster regime. Ballots won't do it; we're past the ethno-socialist tipping point. Bullets will. Let's see...who is it that talks about seccession and waves a gun around?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:37 | 1636295 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Todd Palin?

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 05:52 | 1637551 chipshot
chipshot's picture

....these chubby fucktards wailing away on their laptops will cower and wimper when citizen militias take shape.....any US military folk out there???.....prepar to stand down and uphold the CONSTITUTON  you swore to protect.....read it.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:36 | 1635933 sdmodiano
sdmodiano's picture

Totally agree with this line of analysis.  Paul continues to build slowly.  He does this in the face of his own TV unfriendliness, and the scripted media approach to him.  This includes the dreary pablum "He is unelectable." that was ejaculated earlier in this very thread.  The breadth and incessant drumming of this "unelectableness" narrative is disturbing.  From Seth Meyers at the Annual Presidential Press Dinner to virtually all nationally broadcast interviews, this idea is planted by the interviewer.  Oddly, Cain, Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum, Huntsman and the rest never have to field this question. The weakness of the plastic puppets being trotted out is creating some serious ass squirming amongst the puppeteers.  I will be shocked, amazed, and joyous if the American populace fully awakens to a truth teller like Ron Paul.

 

Unfortunately, his performance in todays event was lacking in ideas that sounded actionable.  To the converted, it still sounds good, to the unconverted it sounded unconvincing and nebulous.  He needs to keep going though because he is our only genuine hope.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:25 | 1636258 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

that's one of the biggest messages people need to understand.

 

Ron Paul always seems to have 'unactionable' ideas. The reason being his position is consistent. Government should GTFO of our lives and NOT DO ANYTHING (except for defense, and enforcing private property rights).

The entire status quo, EVERYONE, is expecting the government/president to DO SOMETHING. Ron Paul is proposing DOING NOTHING, and letting the free market take care of it.

The problem is no one wants to hear that, they always expect a president/government to 'cure' everything. But don't realise that the government is creating the issues.

Look at Medicare fraud, FEMA ineffectiveness, raid on Gibson Guitars, raid on Rawsome, 'war on drugs', Solyndra, Chrysler and GM bailout, Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac bailout, USPS bankruptcy, EVERYTHING points to the inefficiency of government, but the status quo talks about how, when they're in power, they will do government 'better'. They put the guise of 'smaller government' to try and get that sound bite, but I have yet to see anyone, except Ron Paul, come up with concrete proposals to reduce government in ALL aspects.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:12 | 1636389 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

You hit the nail on the head.

And the one thing you can depend on being beyond the ability of the "leaders" in government to accomplish is reducing the size, and dependency upon the. "government".

As said many times here......

We are fucked

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 00:53 | 1637210 sdmodiano
sdmodiano's picture

But he has articulated some actionable proposals.  Like save the $$ spent on the military in Germany, Korea, etc.  Like forgiving the debt from QE2.  Those are things that average joes can grok (OK maybe not the QE2 debt forgiveness or forebearance).  I wish he would make sure that he hits several of those easily understandable actions so that the voting public can say "Yes, I would like to see that happen."  But broad concepts like shrinking government do not seperate him from the others to the unconverted because his opponents say those kinds of things but they have no real plan to do them.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:37 | 1635937 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Was wondering about Rove's and the rest of '43's crowd getting all gushy about Sarah. - Ned

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:38 | 1636499 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

On local news they always show blip of RP stumbling or holding on to someone arm, LOL.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 03:49 | 1637450 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

John, what's your take on this guy Bruce Fein?

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/09/02/countdown-day-4-nervous-fein-...…/

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:04 | 1635655 High Wire
High Wire's picture

Didn't Newt suggest yesterday that we should sell Alaska to Brazille

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:38 | 1635940 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Donna doesn't have enough money.  Beside, she likes hotter climate. - Ned

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:08 | 1635669 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Whoa, Newt Gingrich just junked the super congress.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:13 | 1635685 rambler6421
rambler6421's picture

They'll make Ron Paul look bad.  Silly Neocons.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:15 | 1635691 erg
erg's picture

Ron Paul is up now.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:15 | 1635692 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Ron Paul on now!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:40 | 1635777 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Entitlements - I'll tell you... Big entitlements go to Big Corporations.

 

Dead man walking.

 

I'll say this - putting 30:1 odds on the USA cracking before the EU going on what I saw tonight. EU countries share a modal thought process - you peeps are schizoid in the disparity between your positions.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:16 | 1635697 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Rick Perry, the slick talker sell out POS never lost an election. The elite ultimately wants a Perry-Obama election.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:17 | 1635698 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You mean the "Will the Real John C. Calhoun please stand-up" conference? That's what I'm talking about. "Sectional/nationalist" is me to a tee. Right up there with "convoluted confrontationalist" and "artifice ridiculi."

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:38 | 1635723 navy62802
navy62802's picture

I think this a great forum. Having members of Congress question the candidates is a wonderful idea ... much like a job interview setting. Has this happened in past years?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:26 | 1635728 Negro Primero
Negro Primero's picture

RP_"bring our troops home" : +100

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:12 | 1636017 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Obama (pre-election): "bring our troops home"

=> will we ever learn?

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:29 | 1636059 toady
toady's picture

Won't happen.

Unless they are needed to round up folks and put them in camps.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:34 | 1635755 Peter_Griffin
Peter_Griffin's picture

Paul just asked the question that took my life from ignorance and misinformation to a desire to learn and understand.  "What was the motivation behind the 9/11 attacks?"

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:09 | 1636013 Christophe2
Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:35 | 1635757 keating
keating's picture

Kudos to Jim DeMint - what an eloquent and civilized forum, and yet such pointed questions, going to the principles each candidate brings. And no lectern so no notes. This is a superb format, and one of the best debates I have ever seen.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:14 | 1635873 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Sorry Keating, Jim DeMint is just another corporate dick, and Newy needs to get his meds worked out.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:38 | 1635769 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Nicely done Ron Paul...OK Romney is on now so Im shutting down

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:40 | 1635779 Negro Primero
Negro Primero's picture

..me too

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:45 | 1635801 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Don't do that. Listen to what he says. Then you'll understand why you don't like him. Each time he speaks publicly, we get further insight into how much of a corporate fuck he really is.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:47 | 1635804 akak
akak's picture

Agreed about that plastoid Romney. 

If I ever want to see and hear a mannequin speak, I will watch a rerun of that old Twilight Zone episode about the 13th floor of a department store.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:02 | 1635850 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The nuclear pol-ad...RomneyCare.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 16:48 | 1635814 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Romney should take this no problem.  Any candidate who proudly proclaims he goes on his knees all the time should be VERY popular.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:00 | 1635843 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm voting for ABO.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:01 | 1636163 Goldtoothchimp09
Goldtoothchimp09's picture

I'd vote a dog, a salamander, anything besides Obama the anti-christ

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:08 | 1635857 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

The new SuperDepression© will be an announced event when they are ready. No bad news about monetary conditions on any of the corporate or government news sites until after even the dumbest of the insiders has been warned about the forthcoming bank runs. Sheep know enough about physics that they get the hell out of the way of things coming directly at them that are big and ugly. Sheep are brilliant compared to slugs. They are so going to piss off the slugs.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:21 | 1635895 Mongrel
Mongrel's picture

GOP is The Stupid Party--Dems are The Evil Party. We're fooked . . .

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:39 | 1635942 Captain Obviousness
Captain Obviousness's picture

Are there any recordings of this?  Missed it.  Nothing on the Youtube yet.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 17:58 | 1635996 Wave-Tech
Wave-Tech's picture

Think everyone will like this, check it out.

The NAVIGATOR Weighs in on Politics, Jobs, and the Economy:

http://www.elliottwavetechnology.com/news/929.cfm

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:04 | 1636008 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

The Ron Paul highlights from this debate can be found here:

 

http://www.dailypaul.com/177373/ron-paul-at-sc-palmetto-freedom-forum-li...

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:27 | 1636056 Captain Obviousness
Captain Obviousness's picture

::brofist::

Thanks

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:49 | 1636116 Temporalist
Mon, 09/05/2011 - 18:40 | 1636089 toady
toady's picture

Perry just 'magically' cancels at the last minute.

WHAT A PUSSY!

I'll bet he tries all the 'fuzzy math 'god's will' non-answer W bullshit at the fewest debates he can possibly attend.

I think I'm catching PDS;)

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:02 | 1636166 Dan Watie
Dan Watie's picture

Whatever TPTB want Rick Perry to say MSM will say it for him.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:21 | 1637009 mahalopamala
mahalopamala's picture

Perry never lets a good crisis go to waste so he can ditch other commitments he might be embarrassed to be at.  As a Texan, I have had to put up with his antics for FAR TOO LONG.  He excused himself by claiming he needed to be here because we are having MASSIVE wildfires in many parts of the state.  Our Governor Perry, got out of this event, but somehow he has not seen fit to address the citizens that are being affected by the fires!!  More politics plain and simple.

Seriously folks these fires are not a joke.  We saw several "live fires" it is horrible to see and smell the thick choking smoke.  When grass and trees burn the smoke is different and quite ominous when the cloud of smoke blocks out the sun.  There have been more fires and many more acres affected since this report below, but check it out anyway.  Geostationary shows images of the state and the massive swaths of smoke from the fires show up on the pictures!!  I will try to get the website for y'all.

  [ Printer Friendly | Back ]

Wildfire Update – Sept. 5, 2011

Current situation:

· Texas Forest Service responded yesterday to 63 new fires that burned 32,936 acres, including 22 new large fires.

· Strong winds and low relative humidity from Tropical Storm Lee caused numerous wildfires to spread rapidly yesterday. Additional National Guard Blackhawk helicopters and Texas Intrastate Fire Mutual Aid System (TIFMAS) strike teams, as well as a heavy airtanker from South Dakota were mobilized Sunday to assist with the large number of fires. Weather conditions are expected to reach critical levels again today.

· Texas Forest Service has dozens of aircraft ready to respond this morning, including four heavy airtankers, 15 single-engine airtankers, 12 helicopters, and 13 aerial supervision aircraft. A Type 1 incident management team has been requested to assist with the Bastrop County Complex.

· 251 of the 254 Texas counties are reporting burn bans.

· Daily detailed fire information can be found at inciweb.org.


New large fires from yesterday (more than 100 acres in timber, 300 acres in lighter fuels; or where homes were lost):

* Note: Details on many fires are still unconfirmed. Below is the latest information provided.

BASTROP COUNTY COMPLEX, Bastrop County. 14,000 acres, no containment. Heavy airtankers and single-engine airtankers assisted on this fire that started in the Lost Pines area just northeast of Bastrop. The fire has moved unchecked for at least 16 miles to the south and has jumped the Colorado River twice. The Circle D, K.C. Estates, Pine Forest, Colovista and Tahitian Village subdivision have been evacuated. Firefighters are trying to hold the fire at FM 2571. Reports indicate possibly 300 homes have been destroyed. MODIS satellite image indicates the fire has jumped Highway 95 and is approximately 25,000 acres.

STEINER RANCH, Travis County. 150 acres, no containment. The fire started just north of the Steiner Ranch subdivision. More than 1,000 homes are under mandatory evacuation in Steiner Ranch. At least 25 homes are reported lost. A Texas Intrastate Fire Mutual Aid System strike team responded.

PEDERNALES BEND, Travis County. 7,000 acres, unknown containment. The fire is burning four miles southeast of Spicewood. Twenty homes were lost, 30 homes damaged.

HENDERSON #495, Henderson County. 5,000 acres, unknown containment. Three homes were saved.

#491, Limestone County. 3,000 acres, unknown containment. Six homes were saved and one was lost on this fire 20 miles east of Waco.

DELHI, Caldwell County. 1,000 acres, 10 percent contained. Twenty homes were saved and six were lost on this fire east of Lockhart.

BAILEY, Colorado County. 1,000 acres, unknown containment. This fast-moving fire threatened 40 homes near Columbus. Blackhawks, single-engine airtankers and a heavy airtanker assisted.

MOORE, Smith County. 927 acres, 5 percent contained. Ten homes were evacuated and five were lost on this fire burning on the Smith/Gregg County line. Two civilian fatalities were reported.

#545, Upshur County. 500 acres, 50 percent contained. One hundred homes were saved; none lost. The fire is burning East of Gilmer.

LUTHERHILL, Fayette County. 2,000 acres, unknown containment. The community of Ruttersville was evacuated. Seven homes are reported lost.

BONBIEW RANCH, Van Zandt County. 350 acres, unknown containment. Twenty homes were saved southeast of Canton.

CLEMANIS, Upshur County. 400 acres, 85 percent contained. Twenty homes were saved.

#543, Gregg County. 300 acres, unknown containment. Numerous homes were saved, none lost.

#538, Harrison County. 200 acres, contained. One hundred fifty homes were evacuated in a trailer park east of Longview.

#502, Nacogdoches County. 200 acres, unknown containment. More than a dozen homes have been evacuated, but none lost.

#841, Houston County. 200 acres, unknown containment. Fifteen homes were threatened east of Crockett.

PLEASANT GREEN ROAD, Gregg County. 150 acres, contained. Numerous homes evacuated and saved south of Longview.

KENNEDY ROAD, Rusk County. 150 acres, unknown containment. Numerous homes threatened, one lost.

HODDE, Travis County. 325 acres, contained. Two hundred homes were evacuated and saved east of Pflugerville. No homes reported lost.

PETTYTOWN, Caldwell County. 200 acres, 90 percent contained. Twenty homes were saved east of Lockhart.

OLD MAGNOLIA, Gregg County. 100 acres, unknown containment. No homes threatened. Two fuel tanks exploded.

SOUTH SULPHER, Hunt County. 100 acres, 70 percent contained. Five homes were threatened and two were destroyed.

#839, Leon County (Concord Robbins). 100 acres, unknown containment. At least 15 homes are reported lost and more than 300 were evacuated.

 

Uncontained fires from previous days (more than 100 acres in timber, 300 acres in lighter fuels):

*Note: No current updates available except on the 101 Ranch Fire.

101 RANCH, Palo Pinto County. 6,555 acres, 75 percent contained. The fire is burning on the south side of Possum Kingdom Lake near the town of Brad. Thirty-nine homes and nine RVs have been reported destroyed.

CRAB PRAIRIE, Walker County. 977 acres, 90 percent contained. Numerous SEATs and helicopters, as well as National Guard bulldozers assisted. Two homes were reported to be lost.

HORNETS TANK, Briscoe County. 5,500 acres, 90 percent contained. The fire is burning in juniper and grass in rough terrain near Palo Duro Canyon.

CEDAR RIDGE, Bosque County. 903 acres, 75 percent contained.

3547 ROAD, Wise County. 400 acres, 80 percent contained. Approximately 60 homes were evacuated near this fast-moving fire. Five homes were lost.

JOHNSON (JACKSON) RANCH, Edwards County. 600 acres, 95 percent contained. Three homes were lost on this fire burning 27 miles northwest of Hunt.

BIG DRAW, Kimble County. 600 acres, 20 percent contained. Active fire behavior in heavy fuels and steep terrain was observed. Twenty homes are threatened.

RICK RANCH, Sutton County. 395 acres, 95 percent contained. The fire is burning 24 miles west of Junction.

JACK MOUNTAIN, Coryell County. 1,700 acres, 60 percent contained. The fire is burning five miles south of Gatesville on the Ft. Hood military reservation.

BUNDY ROSS RANCH, Edwards County. 600 acres, 75 percent contained. The fire is burning in juniper, grass and brush 7 miles southeast of Telegraph.

DOUBLE T, Menard County. 300 acres, 95 percent contained. The fire is burning 19 miles west of Brady.

PICKET RUN, Montague County. 1,100 acres, 90 percent contained. The fire is burning in tall grass 7 miles south of Bowie.

CEDAR TRUCK COMPLEX, Kimble County. 357 acres, 80 percent contained. Thirteen homes were saved on this fire burning just west of Fort McKavett. This was a combination of 34 different starts along a 24-mile stretch of highway.

COSTER, Hall County. 1,000 acres, 80 percent contained. Four homes were saved on this fire burning 26 miles northwest of Childress.

HORSESHOE BEND, Coryell County. 525 acres, 75 percent contained. The fire is burning 10 miles south of McGregor. National Guard Blackhawks assisted on the fire. Twelve homes were saved.

Weather Outlook:

A ridge of dry high pressure across the mid U.S. and the Texas panhandle will drift into west Central Texas during the day. This will continue the stronger winds over the east half or more of the state along with drier relative humidities into the 10 to 20 percent range across much of the state. High temperatures will be in the upper 70s to lower 80s over a large portion of North Texas to near 100 over Deep South Texas near the Mexico border. The stronger winds are expected to weaken over most of the state Monday night.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:27 | 1637030 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

I'll say I'm sorry for the plants of Texas.  I'll say I'm sorry for the non human animals of Texas.  But I'll be damned if i'll feel an iota of sympathy for the human retards that live in that sorry state.  You folks brought this on your self.  You elect butt fucks like Perry, deal with it.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:08 | 1636177 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Why is everyone so vehement about repealing Roe vs Wade? Educate active people on birth control options, encourage birth control in impoverished countries, make birth control readily available, make the morning after pill readily available, and when an unwanted pregnancy occurs make first tri-mester abortion readily available.

Focus time and money currently spent opposing abortion on our children already born and living in poverty and broken, unsafe homes.

Make abortion illegal and you will have more unwanted, unloved, impoversihed, abused children in the world.  The current psuedo-religious zeal is frightening.  Where is the voice of these zealots on the issue of the number of children we kill, orphan, maim and mutilate in the countries we invade?  

I support RP's economic platform and less invasive government platform.  But RP is hypocritical on his abortion stance because there is no more invasive a government than one which allows itself the right to walk into my bedroom and my doctor's office.  On the issue of my and my sisters' right to choose I vehemently oppose RP. 

Male readers:  think before you pen anger at my post.   Put yourself in your sister's shoes.  Think.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:17 | 1636225 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

There's one really good rational reason to criminalize abortion...the crime rate dropped significantly in the late '80s, largely attributed to the major decrease in numbers of unwanted children born in poverty.

If you're in law-enforcement or the prison industry, a falling crime rate is a bad thing.  Outlawing abortion will drive up crime rate in the short-term by forcing many people to get illegal abortions, and in the long-term by increasing the number of unwanted young people with no job, no money, and no prospects.

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 19:50 | 1636332 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Hah! An interesting perspective and one which the MSM does not touch.  Unfortunately, abortion is a straightforward topic that lends itself to graphic illustration and is easily understood by the masses.   I do wonder though if RP isn't playing politician when he spouts off against abortion- or against any increase in taxes, for that matter.  May just be an attempt to appeal to his "base".

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:15 | 1636995 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

A woman should be able to have an abortion at any time, for any reason.  There's nothing better than a juicy little fried, baked or boiled fetus.  Mmmm....good.  K Fried Fetus!  A conservative dream!  Money making opportunity!

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:07 | 1636378 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

SheHunter...YOu're missing the bigger point.  It's not your bedroom the goverment is walking into, it's the death row sentence you've given the kid you've fathered/mothered due to your ignorance.  Like it or not, you can't take that life.  And since you're female, you can't say "it's my body, it's my choice" as once you've created life, you now have two individuals that need to be involved in that decision (even though it would still be murder, let's just say...), you and your fetus.  My guess is that your fetus would pimp slap you before committing suicide. 

Soooo, to say you're against repealing Roe vs Wade is somewhat irrevelant because my guess is that you come up a tad short on facts and perhaps are long on opinions.

 

 

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 20:39 | 1636507 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If the government has the right to tell a woman she can't have a medical procedure done, it has the right to tell you can't get gall-bladder surgery, too.

It's not really the government's business what a doctor does for a patient.  Unless you're a big-government statist kinda guy.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:13 | 1636653 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

As for abortion, taking a life is much more involved than a medical procedure. 

Blunder, do you have children?  My guess is you don't as I've never heard a parent refer to this as a medical procedure, even if they're pro choice.  I find your choice of vernacular interesting.

As for "big government statist", um...you'd be VERY wrong again.  I can see you have a hard time reading people as most who are anti abortion are conservatives...and a real conservative wants virtually zero goverment.

The irony is this.  I used to work in healthcare, in a the busiest pediatric trauma room in the country.  I watched literally hundreds of parents lose their children in horrific accidents and these parents would have done ANYTHING to save their children.  The flip side is we have the flipside of that who that dispose of life without any thought whatsoever when the unwanted life could have been simply given up for adoption.  I guess it's too much to carry a kid for 9 months, you get all streatchy 'n shit...!  Furthermore, the chick before you that was banging her gums was talking all this crap about give the money instead, blah blah blah.  If she had a clue, she would know that more money is spent rehabilitating females who've had an abortion than you or I can fathom.  Abortions f' people up, for good, both physically and emotionally.  I have a dear friend who had one and she's in a world of hurt, even though it was 20+ years ago.  She wonders ever day "what if?"

Slippery slope for humanity my friend.  This is not something I would want to take to the grave and I'm glad that I won't.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:26 | 1636707 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I don't care what your opinion is--if you hate abortions, don't get one.

The issue as far as public policy is a mess.

Unborn babies aren't citizens, so you need a specialized legal status for them if you want the government to attend to them.  In order for the government to enforce anti-abortion law, they have to be informed about the details of EVERY SINGLE doctor's visit--otherwise abortions can be taking place and they'd never know.  Babies who aren't aborted don't all become people, so the idea that these are people "murdered" doesn't stand up to legal scrutiny. 

If you want the government involved in oversight of medical procedures, don't be surprised if the policies demanded are turned around on you in a few years.  Government tends to expand to fill any potential gap, and once you demand government action, it'll take on a lot of responsibilities you never wanted and don't support.

But it doesn't matter to me.   I'll never need an abortion.  I don't have kids, and I don't care about yours, either.  They're nothing special.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:52 | 1636785 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I realize we agreed, mutually, to never speak to each other again...but this is simply wrong and needs to be pointed out...

"Unborn babies aren't citizens, so you need a specialized legal status for them if you want the government to attend to them."

The slayers of pregnant women are charged routinely with two capital murders instead of one. And citizenship has nothing to do with it. In the cases described, it means...two human deaths, not one...citizen, or not.

I violated our agreement, yes its a mess...you get the last word.

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 22:49 | 1636808 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

There's nothing to prevent all kinds of bullshit laws being passed.  Next thing you know, tyrannical state governments will be saying they have a right to force people to print shit on their menus.

I'm for freedom.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 00:34 | 1637165 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

again, when you start lobbying for paternity tests for forced full-term pregnancy, with resultant monies extracted from the sperm donor until the adulthood of any child born, then I will listen to your argument, which is very shallow, emotional and one-sided at this point.

full responsibility for unwanted pregnancies on BOTH sides of the encounter.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 01:25 | 1637285 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Good post B-dog.  The same government trying to dictate our right to abortion is also telling us we cannot make the decision when to allow ourselves/our loved ones the right to a graceful death.  What was the Florida woman's name who was completely comatose and who Pres Bush cut short a weed whacking vacation for the sole purpose of trying to keep her husband from allowing this human to gracefully die...the damn GOP tried to bring the case up to the supreme court they were so determined to keep her on the feed tubes.  To hell with government in my personal life. Amen.  Enough rant.  Time to check in on the Euro/USD and see if tomorrow may become financial Armageddon.

Cheers

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 01:12 | 1637249 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

I am against repealing Roe vs Wade because women screw up and get pregnant and have the right to decide to terminate their pregnancy.  Period. 

And I speak from experience.  I came from a worse than broken home; thought men only would like me if I screwed them, got pregnant twice out of pure stupidity and lack of education, and had two abortions. No regrets.  It was early termination and I assure you the 2 month old fetuses were not screaming save me.  I assure you.  Don't be so naive.  And so dramatic.  Now I work to assure young women are more eductaed than was I about birth control and saying no to guys they don't really want to screw and yes- about the option of abortion.  Skip the save the fetus bullshit and focus your energy on the millions of unwanted kids who were born and need your time and financial support.  ciao

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 21:17 | 1636668 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

uhmm, maybe you need a lesson on Ron Paul's position.

PERSONALLY Ron Paul is against abortion.

Why would he repeal Roe v Wade, because Roe v Wade establishes a FEDERAL standard. He's proposing each STATE decide whether they allow abortion or not.

He doesn't like that position of allowing a state to decide on abortion either, but he acknowledges that that is the state's right, since it is not expressed as a power that federal government is granted under the constitution.

Much like states can decide whether they have the death penalty or not.

 

As an aside though, from a libertarian point of view, why is it that the left are so against wars and the associated death, but are fine to kill a fetus.

Why are the right so against abortion, but ok to wage war?

Exceptions for rape, incest, danger to the mother or fetus are generally accepted by all sides as allowable situations for abortion. But abortion is NOT birth control.

As that infant onesie I saw once said.. "now that i'm safe... i'm pro-choice"

Mon, 09/05/2011 - 23:19 | 1637004 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

You're a liar.  Ron Paul is a fascist fuckwad when it comes to the rights of women.  He is a crazy anti choice nutbag, like every other republic party scum.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 00:18 | 1637124 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

wow, the evidence you present is beyond reproach. I can't argue with your citations, train of thought and logic. Oh wait, that's right you don't have any, that's why all you can do is call people names. What are you in 3rd grade?

 

P.S. If your mom chose to abort you, then we wouldn't be discussing this. So I will pretend she did and will ignore you.

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 01:34 | 1637310 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Good one Weinerdoggie!  OK, so I stated my case too diplomatically.  Fascist anti-woman's-rights fucktard for RP is more right-on.  So where's this darn market headed tomorrow early AM anyway? 

Tue, 09/06/2011 - 00:28 | 1637155 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

abortion appears to be a great birth-control method for those males who refuse any other form.

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