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Watch Rosenberg And Krugman Debate Larry Summers and Ian Bremmer On Whether The US Is Turning Into Japan

Tyler Durden's picture


Minutes ago, the always delightful Munk Debate on the American economy concluded, which pitted two skeptics: David Rosenberg and (yes, he is a skeptic when it comes to his belief in the "proper" implementation of Keynesianism) Paul Krugman on the one hand defending the null motion of the debate, against Larry "Warren (watch the clip)" Summers, best known for destroying capitalism, and Ian Bremmer. The core debate topic was as follows: "North America faces a Japan style era of high unemployment and slow growth an accurate forecast of the future." Naturally, as Krugman immediately explained, by North America the organizers mean the US, simply because Canada is too small and hasn't screwed up enough (we would add that the screw up has not been perceived yet: everyone has screwed up, but luckily we have enough distractions for the time being). Either way, the progression of the debate should not come as a surprise to most, neither how each particular economist will perform: that Rosie sees Japan in every aspect of the US should not surprise anyone; that Krugman does too unless the politicians agree to being invaded by aliens, is also to be expected. On the other side, "Warren" Summers' argument can be simplified to his fallback motto of Keynesianism and Central Planning 101 in which he believes that the printing of money and job creation are sufficient to fix all US problems. No surprise there either: after all this is the man who three weeks ago said: "The central irony of financial crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence, too much borrowing and lending and too much spending, it can only be resolved with more confidence, more borrowing and lending, and more spending."

So while certainly an interesting way to spend 90 minutes, we urge readers not to expect any preconceptions to be overturned (possibly quite the opposite). If anything, we urge readers to fast forward to 34 minutes into the clip to listen to Larry Summers' prepared remarks to realize the unprecedented degree of delusion that is being exhibited by the man who was Obama's right hand advisor during the key period in the "rebound" from 2009 to 2010. It is no wonder that the US economy is now in a worse condition than ever, and flirts with complete socio-economical collapse on a daily basis (as does Europe and the rest of the "developed" world) only to be pulled back from the abyss by the latest and greatest monetary and fiscal stimulus. Because should the methadone be taken away, the addict will die on the spot.

The supreme irony of course is that for the grand reset to finally occur, what we need is not one or two more "Summerses", but a countless army of such delusional lunatics whose idiotic actions will finally destroy this country, ushering in a new and better age where we can finally restart from scratch.

Watch the full debate below. It begins roughly 17 minutes in.

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Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:01 | 1877993 thesoothsayer
thesoothsayer's picture

What recovery?


Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:20 | 1878041 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

Summer's waistline has recovered at least two more sizes since getting out of gubermint.

On another note, recovery requires admitting there's a problem.  Of these four, only Rosie really can admit that.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:00 | 1878353 paarsons
paarsons's picture

He's a fat little bastard.  I'll grant you that.

But I bet he still gets more pussy than us.

Money talks.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:16 | 1878361 LaLiLuLeLo
LaLiLuLeLo's picture


he's more likely to be into little fat ginger boys.

This will be hard news for Larry but it wasn't that inconceivable that Americans voted for a black man, disregarding every notion of his misunderstanding of the economy and how it functions just to say: “we needed to get over it.” Passing out blankets in SS Chicago doesn't make you qualified to lead during a depression. on second thought...


Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:45 | 1878095 SMG
SMG's picture

We won't be turning into Japan.  It will be much worse than that.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:20 | 1878202 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Japan? We should be so lucky.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:24 | 1878311 sushi
sushi's picture

The central irony of Summer's position, that the problems can

". . . only be resolved with more confidence, more borrowing and lending, and more spending."

Is that this is exactly the position taken by Japan. They built hugely expensive bridges to nowhere, they borrowed and borrowed and have never stopped borrowing and they lent and spent and still they are stuck in the mud.

The only thing Japan has that the USA has not attempted is that Japan has Yakuza. But the US has Congress so the two nations are a draw.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:37 | 1878330 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



On a long enough time-line hyper intelligent fat fucks go on to infinity and we end up with Heaven.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 05:25 | 1878459 mannfm11
mannfm11's picture

Summers was voted in a poll put out by Steve Keen as the most destructive economist on earth.  The guy should be put on a hook and used to troll sharks.  The people in the audience should have been given rocks to throw instead of clapping for this bastard.  If his uncle wasn't Paul Samuelson, he would be totally unknown and probably cooking cheese burgers on skid row.  

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 09:29 | 2024495 Postkey
Postkey's picture

"Adam Posen, the most recent recruit to the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee, who is one of the leading scholars on the Japanese economy, said growth in the Japanese economy had repeatedly been stifled by premature tax rises and “withdrawal of public investment and zeroing out of public consumption”. The result has been a 20-year period of stagnation and higher debt levels. “The picture,” Dr Posen said, “is of a market economy showing natural tendencies to recovery being stymied by policy mistakes.”

Japan’s experience has demonstrated conclusively, according to Dr Posen, that fiscal policy has exactly the growth effects described by Keynesian economics."


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:29 | 1878323 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Ya, Japan's real lucky.   Glow in the dark lucky.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:28 | 1879171 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Saying the worse it's ever going to get is the near equivalent of Japan's lost era is a ploy to avoid considering the far more realistic scenarios involving collapse.  The US is running on the increasingly exctinct fumes of its reserve currency status.  A few commenters seem to think the criminal governments will be able to print their way into a collapse-free future.  As Putin would say:  Is it really so?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:48 | 1878340 philipat
philipat's picture

Barry Ritholtz recently described Summers as "The biggest asshole in the US", and whilst there are plenty of other very deserving contendors for this honour, he does get my vote.

The difference between the US and Japan is that the Japanese have great social cohesion, work hard and save. Also the Japanese actually produce things and successfully export them. Conversely, the US economy is based on instant (Credit driven) gratification and conspicuous consumption. I fear that unless major structural reforms take place in the US (And there aren't any signs that they will), unemployment will remain high, aggregate demand will decline and the consumer-driven economic model will not be sustainable. So I share the view that coming out like Japan is a very optimistic scenario.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 08:25 | 1878587 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Yep- I don't mind a few assholes- Central Planning is full of them- but Summers is a particularily obtuse piece, who consistantly fails to consider any view other than his own opaque, psuedo-intellectual Ivory Tower Socialist bullshit; 

No one wants to work with him not because he is "abrasive", but because he's a fucking idiot who somehow manages to inject himself into the conversation over and over again......

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:04 | 1878278 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Shit, not another confab of douchebags and fat fucks.    Just what we need right now to solve the crisis.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:02 | 1877998 Banksters
Banksters's picture

Larry the hut Summers proves that in politics and finance, people fail upwards.   

I have spoken, 

BITCHEZZZZZZZ! - a term of endearment, bitchezzzZZZZZZZ!

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:10 | 1878012 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Why would I do that?

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:10 | 1878015 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

Krugman should immediately be sacrificed to the aliens in order to appease them.

Doesn't matter if they haven't arrived yet, it's best to get a head start on these things.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:15 | 1878192 Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

I am preparing my new book:  40 Ways to Serve Krugman.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:40 | 1878334 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Speaking of meals, at the break did they serve Larry his usual dozen donuts?

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:10 | 1878016 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Humpty Dumpty Summers sat on the wall, his ass was so fucking fat he collapsed the house and all, does he deserve to be hanged by one ball, yes he does in front of a public mall!

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:14 | 1878030 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

Awesome! Now how about a limerick?

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:22 | 1878048 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

there once was an economist named Summer

who went to work for Obummer

they printed and spent

and took liberties and lent

and wondered why the economy's dumber

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:52 | 1878123 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

You guys are good!

Betcha can't do a Haiku on this topic.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:16 | 1878194 buckethead
buckethead's picture

Seasoned economists

Discussing the ways and means

By which we shall starve

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:23 | 1878208 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

you got me... i can't do haiku

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 09:11 | 1878703 francis_sawyer
Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:39 | 1878236 catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

buy the fucking dip / buy the mother fucking dip / buy the fucking dip

do it then again / again as in never end / a gain begins when

all your tommorows / every last yesterday / set you up the bomb

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 03:07 | 1878391 caerus
caerus's picture

krugman should be hanged

by freedom loving people

from the highest tree


edit: works for summers too

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:41 | 1878081 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

There once was an idol called Keynes

Whose worship caused manifold pains

The debt load grew higher

To the chant 'multiplier'

'til Freedom burst forth from her chains


Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:11 | 1878019 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

summers is an a55 and can go to hell


nice flavor savor krugman

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:17 | 1878031 TheAkashicRecord
TheAkashicRecord's picture


All countries will be neo-feudalistic fiefdoms subservient to the international finance cabal enabled by transnational governmental organizations.  

Global problems require global solutions they will say, adopting any “solutions” after this line of logic will lead to a particular future they have been shaping for quite some time. 

By understanding our largely Pavlovian responses, creating crises, offering solutions to those crises, and claiming "there are no other options," they can create certain futures with startling accuracy.  


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:57 | 1878260 JR
JR's picture

Good stuff.

These people have gone beyond debauching the currency as Lenin advocated; they’ve debauched the political system, the justice system, the democratic institutions that we have -- and because of this they have overridden representative government.

Economic justice can only be found in the marketplace where millions of individuals make economic decisions daily in their own best interests. Says John McManus: “The founders of the United States wanted real competition in the banking industry, no irredeemable paper money, no inflation, and no manipulation from on high of interest rates or the value of the currency.

Instead, says McManus, Americans are forced into choosing from false and harmful alternatives.  In a nutshell, he says, here is what students are being taught:

“When the value of the dollar is high relative to other currencies, our domestic economy ‘slows down’ because foreign goods become more attractive and consumers buy overseas.  As a consequence, our nation experiences a trade deficit, and exporters are up in arms. The way to cure this problem is to lower the value of the dollar and expand the money supply by reducing interest rates.

“But when the value of the dollar sinks relative to the currencies of other nations, domestic goods become more attractive and the economy ‘heats up.’  The trade deficit becomes a surplus, and importers are up in arms. The cure for this development is to boost the value of the dollar and contract the amount of currency in circulation by raising interest rates.

“It is obvious that there is a need for great flexibility and enduring wisdom when the value of the dollar is established, interest rates are established, and the amount of currency is set. That is why the best available geniuses are appointed to decision-making posts at the Federal Reserve. And to keep their decisions from being influenced by political considerations, the members of the Fed’s board who make these important determinations are appointed for 14-year terms by the President.

“While the President has the power to choose like-minded individuals for these sensitive posts, their 14-year terms guarantee that each will outlast him. Therefore, Fed leaders, who are encouraged but not required to consult with the President and Congress from time to time, are able to undertake moves that might not be popular with the reigning Administation. Aren’t we fortunate in America to have such a marvelously conceived system managing the nation’s economy?”

In  short, America has been saddled with a Marxian program; it was Marx and Lenin and Stalin and Warburg who advocated a monopolistic bank with all power over money in the hands of the elite few.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:53 | 1878534 Bob
Bob's picture

Students are beginning to agitate against what they're being taught at Harvard:

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 09:54 | 1878811 ffart
ffart's picture

And this is different from what we already have... how?

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:19 | 1878038 kito
kito's picture

Turning into japan means less crime, more civilized society, healthier populace, tech savvy citizens, repsect for elders, high real estate prices, strong exports.....hmmm...doesnt sound like the u.s. is turning into japan anytime soon....

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:44 | 1878085 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

Samurai swords into time-shares.  Brilliant! 

Long live the slow death of Kill Dollar Bill/yen hairy-carry!

Go stick your head in a microwave and evolve mutant. 

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:54 | 1878128 kito
kito's picture

ha!!!  looking at where america is heading, i dont think im the one with the need to evolve. 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:02 | 1878157 Rollerball
Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:48 | 1878106 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

You forgot panties in vending machines!


Snail tracks bitchez!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:10 | 1878293 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

And radiation everywhere, and a goobermint that tells you everything is fine with that!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:42 | 1878327 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



And don't forget radioactive everything coupled with cancer rates climbing upwards like Mt. Fuji.     It would make a beautiful Japanese ink on silk canvas rendering.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:22 | 1878047 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

if this dont move ya.. get out of my country, bitch!

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:45 | 1878092 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I had to get away from feel good wanna be swept away by the rapture bullshit!

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:56 | 1878133 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

A tip of the hat and toast to Joker Heath Ledger

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:26 | 1878058 catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

Stab yourself in the face until the pain stops.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:31 | 1878065 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Meanwhile on the actual planet Earth, and in the actual Japan even....

Japan farm radioactive levels probed

New research has found that radioactive material in parts of north-eastern Japan exceeds levels considered safe for farming.

The findings provide the first comprehensive estimates of contamination across Japan following the nuclear accident in 2011.

Food production is likely to be affected, the researchers suggest.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:47 | 1878102 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

Not a chance in Hell that food production will be reduced.
It's becoming rather unfashionable and almost taboo to bring up radioactive food in conversation over here.
COSTCO - the only safe source of food in Japan.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:53 | 1878254 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I found this rather chilling:

"Radioecologist Nick Beresford from Centre of Ecology and Hydrology in Lancaster explained that once in soil, caesium will become bound to mineral components, which limits its uptake into plants.

However, this process depends on the soil type. "Caesium stays mobile for longer in organic soils, hence why England and Wales still have some post-Chernobyl restrictions in upland areas," he told BBC News."

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 09:06 | 1878623 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

You are what you eat.

"Radiating Americans: Fukushima rain, Clinton's secret food pact"

In April, the month after the powerful tsunami and earthquake crippled Japan including its nuclear power plant, "Hillary Clinton signed a pact with Japan that she agreed there is no problem with Japanese food supply and we will continue to buy them so we are not sampling food coming in from Japan" according to Gundersen.

It is unclear how much of the exported Japanese food is bought by COSTCO and re-imported into Japan.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 03:42 | 1878419 Last_2_Sense
Last_2_Sense's picture

The food production problem has been solved, introducing the Shit Burger.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:34 | 1878070 Hearst
Hearst's picture

The blind leading the blind.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:37 | 1878073 SHEEPFUKKER

Turning Japanese 

I think I'm turning Japanese

I really think so

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:37 | 1878074 monopoly
monopoly's picture

We mostly agree on the idiocy of this debate but since most of us are on the same page why do you keep bringing up religions. What does that have to do with anything economic? Jew, Gentile, Agnostic, Hindu, Catholic, Sunni, Protestant, who cares about that. You believe or do not believe as you wish. Why demean any religious sect. It is the person  you abhor, their actions, their idiocy and their greed, Not what diety they believe in.

I just never get that. It is like being black, white, brown or yellow makes any difference in a person. We still have a ways to go on this planet to accept each other the way we are. I am the first one here to spit on the squids, and the selfish greed so many have. But, has nothing to do with what they believe in above the planet.

Sorry guys, had to get that out. OK to junk me tonight.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:44 | 1878242 quacker
quacker's picture


Not interested in junking you, just explaining it the best I can.

My perspective is as a full-blooded Jew, Jewish on both sides all the way back, though religiously I converted to Christianity some years back.

The first thing you’re missing is that Jewish is not just a religion it’s also an ethnicity. You seem to be under the impression that by saying “Jews” one is only referring to religious beliefs, it’s not, as Jewish refers also to an ethnicity.

Now, what can we say about this ethnicity when it comes to the world of banking, and central banking in particular? Well, they’ve been front and center in this world for hundreds of years. More recently, every single Chairman of the privately owned international banking cartel aka the Federal Reserve is and has been Jewish. Every single one, bar none. And most of the board of governors has been Jews.

I know from the inside that Jews view gentiles as little goyim children that need to be taken care of. They think their machinations and worldly devices are so smart, and there’s no scheme they cannot master. Banking and particularly central planning appeals to them because it strokes their belief in their own smartness. Their smartness is their god.

I wouldn’t let my people anywhere near banking and think they should be kicked out of it and never let back in again. Sooner or later the Jew, for all his brains, will tangle a web so complicated and laden with intricate designs layered on top of the other to “fix things,” that the whole mess collapses of its own weight.

They do this to one society after another, again and again and again. And until the world finally understands this, and finally once and for all bans Jews from banking and central planning, they’re in for one collapse after another. 


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 06:37 | 1878481 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

Amen, brother.  Thanks for taking the time.  From one of a similar background and conversion.


I am told that one of the reasons for the long-term Byzantine survival (apart from sound money) was a long-term policy to exclude Jews from financial, political, and educational dominance.  Might have some truth in it.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 08:12 | 1878567 Bob
Bob's picture

I see the same narcissism you describe in the elite of every ethnicity.  Exclude narcissists and elitists from positions of highly concentrated power and you change the world. 

That being impossible, however, perhaps it would be best to instead eliminate such institutions.  If you think they depend upon Jews for their existence, you hate your people way too much. 

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:37 | 1878076 Majere
Majere's picture

Just keep swimming.  Just keep swimming...

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:43 | 1878084 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

........ assholes .

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:56 | 1878394 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Pithy.   I like that.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:46 | 1878099 Alz
Alz's picture

Krugman ----> ignoranus  (

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:48 | 1878105 blindman
blindman's picture

the purpose of the derivative is to
tie leverage and junk into the system
of valuable assets or collateral. as in
if you can insure shit as gold and then
flush the shit and be paid as if you held
gold then you have basically succeeded in
the age old pursuit known as alchemy, turning
base metal into gold. insurance. fortuitous
lightening. etc...
this is what derivatives, tangential projections,
accomplish. they make possible the miss pricing
of base garbage as if it were gold so long as
there is a sovereign fiat backer of last resort
willing and able to honour the claim, which there
is so long as the fascist model of government capture prevails.
Monday, November 14, 2011
The $1.4 Quadrillion Dollar Derivative Bubble Better Scare You!!
"Yep, America is in debt up to it's ears, but what we need is MORE CREDIT : ) They say the crisis was caused by making mortgages TOO EASY to get, so we have to do the bailout? or mortgages will be TOO HARD to get! I have a theory on the origin of the word "mortgage". mort = (death) + gage = (to measure), i.e. measured so you PAY until you DIE : ) "The United States has essentially a one-party system and the ruling party is the business party" (Chomsky). i.e. the Corporation. Ralph Nader said: "Prepare to be disappointed". We are now One? Corporate Obama-Nation under God! The real problem is that 98% of Americans are completely vested in mindless entertainment, and haven't seen a book in years. They get all their "facts" from cable news, and find it much more comfortable to remain ignorant to our predicament. Life is much less complicated? when one dismisses the piece-by-piece destruction of our country as "conspiracy theory"."
it is the money system !! it dictates and has it's
tormenting and torturous demands. pay the debt! and all
there is is debt owed to ... the authority and power of
the authority, systemic, to create the legal tender, the credit,
the "money" out of nothing but thin air and the authority to
do so. aka.. we are slaves to and owned by, the federal reserve
bank board members and owners. it is the law as expressed by
our compliance with the conception that states legal tender is
money. ...

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:52 | 1878118 Life of Illusion
Life of Illusion's picture



Japanese had savings, little of no debt and industrial production.

US people have massive debts to pay down, debt deflation and a balance sheet recession with no job growth.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:48 | 1878245 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Japanese had savings, little of no debt and industrial production.


Japan likely had the best of deflation's-they had low unemployment and a strong export trade to carry them through because the rest of the world was in an inflationary credit mania-

I wonder what will happen to their bond market now that they will have trouble growing their way out-their population demographics are not good-they've printed a lot and with a prolonged global downturn ahead GDP will shrink-how long will it be before the vigilantes cast eyes their way

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:22 | 1878310 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I haven't heard anyone else talking about this.  Much of Japan's wealth is held by old people.  There are a lot of them, and they are going to start checking out of this world in droves pretty soon.  This will give the government huge inheritance tax revenue and a lot of money to their children.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:43 | 1878337 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

This will give the government huge inheritance tax revenue and a lot of money to their children.


Some good points-deflation is a good thing for people in cash with no debt-

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:57 | 1878135 web bot
web bot's picture

Only a sewer like the CBC that sponsors the Munk lectures, would invite like-minded liberal refuse such as Krugman to spew his government-saves-all rhetoric. Hopefully, the Canadian Prime Minister (Harper), will soon dismantle that destructive element of Canadian society.

The CBC is nothing more than state sponsored liberalism, with a legislated mandate under the CRTC Act to promote a liberal biased format of news coverage. Change the Act... and you'll get a much more representative view of Canada.

If you take a close look at the CBC, all you'll find is a disproportionate view of Canada. You'd think that Muslims, gays and euthanasia was the only topic on the minds of Canadians. If you were to take 100 Canadians and put them into a room, and these 100 were to represent Canada, this is what you'd find:

* 2 would be Muslim

* less than 2 would be gay

* less than 1 supports euthanasia

* about 15 support abortion


You'd never be told that:

* 33 speak French

* 50 live outside of urban areas

* 23 attend some form of weekly religious service

* 74 live outside of Ontario


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:34 | 1878291 LeZinc
LeZinc's picture

How come educationally challenged people are all so mad against CBC? Hmmm... Maybe because it makes them angry they can't understand a thing they watch national public TV. They only understand the privately-owned propaganda served on private TV, whipping them into submission via debilitating reality shows concocted in the USA, heavily salted with ads for made-in-china trinkets and all-american shark loaners. I mean, why bother with canadian content when we have Jersey Shore, Sarah Palin reality show and the Kardashian saga?

The only disruptive thing I see is the Royal-Prestige-Wet-Dreamer-Lego-Man (a.k.a. Harper) will bend over to please his media mogul friends. And to do so, he'll have to totally eliminate the healthy competition: CBC. Lego Man is in the same league as CONgress. Sold to the 1%.

But why am I even bothering. Some people are just prone to go beyond TPTB expectations, soaking themselves up in propaganda to the point they are totally blind. Critical thinking? Forget it!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 06:55 | 1878491 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Privately owned propaganda vs state owned propaganda? What is the choice in this? Blind vs blind? If I had a choice between the two, I would rather be convinced that I need to buy a car than to invade a country or "save the planet" by not drilling for oil. It is all propaganda, and there is no legit source of information.

As for critical thinking, you are right. This is ZH however. Many here are painfully aware.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 09:42 | 1878764 web bot
web bot's picture


THEN READ Rescuing Canada's Right: Blueprint for a Conservative Revolution (Kheiriddin & Daifallah).

If the state wants to ensure that Canada content is produced to reflect so called Canadian values, then the state should establish a pool of money that individual networks apply for and use... as long as it conforms to the principals of the fund.

None of that will happen until the CRTC Act is changed and the CBC is dismantled.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:33 | 1878328 JR
JR's picture

Peter and Melanie Munk, hosts of the Munk Debates – from Wikipedia:

Peter Munk, CC (born November 8, 1927) is a Canadian businessman. He is the chairman and founder of the mining company Barrick Gold, the world's largest gold-mining corporation.

Munk was born in Budapest, Hungary into a well-off Jewish family. Hungary was invaded by Nazi Germany in March 1944 when Munk was a teenager. His family escaped the Nazis by obtaining seats on the Kastner train, a train carrying 1,684 Jews to safety in Switzerland, arranged by Rudolf Kastner of the Zionist Aid and Rescue Committee as a result of negotiations with senior SS officer Adolf Eichmann. Eichmann allowed some Jews to leave for Switzerland in exchange for money, gold, and diamonds, that was obtained from the wealthy among them. as part of a series of so-called "blood for goods" deals.[2]

Munk graduated from the University of Toronto with a degree in electrical engineering in 1952...

Munk is married to Melanie Jane Bosanquet Munk and has five adult children. His daughter Nina Munk is a contributing editor for Vanity Fair.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:07 | 1878357 shano
shano's picture

A couple would be in the closet.  Gays are always more than 1% of any human population.  Usually 6%.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 03:36 | 1878415 LeZinc
LeZinc's picture

Well, well. Let's see here... What do we have after my pleading for media diversity and nationality. A reference to Jews. So typical!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 09:57 | 1878818 web bot
web bot's picture

Go and get some better sources. Until the late 1980s, the American Psychiatric Association classified homosexuality as a mental disorder and this was changed due to political pressure.

If you are intellectually honest.... and approached the subject of homosexuality with a clinical mind, here's what you'd find - over 90% of male homosexuals had a "HATE" relationship with their father. Their fathers were abusive to them, always put them down, shouted at them... and they often were the subject of physical beatings. Those are the "facts' that you fail to understand and that the CBC will never air. Abuse after time becomes a mental disorder resulting in abnormal behavior. Male homosexuals are still looking for the love of their fathers all those years later... facts, just facts. Then there are the other 10% that are just social deviants.

Less research has been done on females, but there is a definite link with motherly rejection. Facts, just facts...


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:19 | 1878513 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Are you totaly nuts?

The CBC is not perfect but it is darn sight better than any of the US trash networks (which are a total joke ... except the Daily Show on Comedy). And it is better than CTV or Global too. TVO, another government supported network is quite good though.

Basically if you want commercial TV you get CRAP. In a world full of flat out corporate propaganda porn, we need a less biased source of information. 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 09:49 | 1878795 web bot
web bot's picture

Listen Mr. Wilson. I don't care how much money you have. You need to take a more strategic view of what you country has become. Much of what made Canada great has been lost in the last 40 years. You make the fatal mistake of comparing the CBC to US network trash... apply some of that intellectual thinking to redefine the paradigm of what Canada could become.

Mon, 11/14/2011 - 23:59 | 1878143 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Summers is a scumbag lying criminal POS who belongs in jail- Krugman is a dumbass- Rosie is a good guy whom I always enjoy listening to. I don't even know who that other clown is. I didn't listen to anything he said.  

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:00 | 1878152 dvp
dvp's picture

Considering expression in the article of a desire for, "ushering in a new and better age where we can finally restart from scratch," never indicated is the character of this "new and better age where we can finally restart from scratch."  Although unaware of all the acronyms utilized by blogs on this site, never have I seen a clear expression of what such a "new and better age where we can finally restart from scratch" would be like.  Given the list of economists appearing in the video, it is clear none of them have a clue as to the character of this "new and better age."  Being so, what is the author's suggestion as to its nature, and on what ground is this new nirvana based?  Indeed, I would be happy to be presented with anyone's suggestion, since the experts appear to be blundering about concerning this matter.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 11:31 | 1879224's picture

I to would also like to know what our next philosophy of governance will or should look like. From what I can tell a good portion of those who post here are Marxist or heavily influenced by Marxism. I see post everyday that further my assumption that this is true. Posts stating that all debts must be forgiven without accounting for the fact that those who incurred the debt were not forced to do it but instead made the poor choice of doing it to themselves. Well maybe there is hope because our educated youths will awaken to usher in a new age of reason but how can this happen when they have suffered from an education system that is nothing more than an indoctrination machine designed to turn them into thoughtless menions of thet socialist dogma or full blown Marxists. From my vantage point there will be no golden age to run toward but instead we will get a totalitarian government of left wing Marxist thugs.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:06 | 1878166 chump666
chump666's picture

Rosenberg kicks ass.  Took them to the cleaners.  Wall Street takes the pain mantra.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:06 | 1878169 DavidAKZ
DavidAKZ's picture

Money printing. Gold to the moon Bitches

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:12 | 1878172 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

just a bunch of debt addicts ...........

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:09 | 1878176 QuantumCat
QuantumCat's picture

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kinds of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of lawbreakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

Dr. Floyd Ferris, Atlas Shrugged

Tell me that doesn't sound like Larry "Warren" Summers inner self screaming behind his precious Keynesianism!  Larry probably likes the idea of Keynesian stimulus machine... one that tortures people and government to consume. 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:09 | 1878177 Ragnar24
Ragnar24's picture

Well isn't that special. I don't even need to watch if somehow Paul "Stimulus was too Small" Krugman is opposing Larry Summers because clearly that's not much of a "debate".

Instead, it's a fitting illustration of today's bass ackwards economic policy handbook: A bunch of Keynesians are able to debate each other about the SIZE of the stimulus needed... because as we all know, the need for stimulus was a foregone conclusions in 2008 -- the only question was how many zeros to add.

Don't you dare suggest that it might be wise to look to the Austrians who knew this bullshit was inevitable, and who have a rather simple solution that doesn't involve punishing future generations... it's best known as: Stop "helping", just get the fuck out of the markets' way.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:09 | 1878178 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

more distractions ...more who gives a shit?  seriously, we need to take away the cameras from these lying sacks of shit. if your own flesh and blood lies to you once or twice, do you trust them again? long time before i do..but we trust and believe pathologiacl liars and sociopaths over and over again becasue they claim this time they're telling the truth???

these jokers, have been more wrong than a weatherman from Bizarro World predicting yesterdays weather.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:26 | 1878211 Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

Three cocksuckers on stage with Rosie.

What a trio of arrogant spinsters & bullchit artists.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:29 | 1878217 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Larry Summers..... Has no one hung him by the neck until dead yet.....?

Whats the hold up.???

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:18 | 1878303 chump666
chump666's picture


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:35 | 1878227 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Rot Row. Rosenberg says "We engineered a financial and housing bubble to overcompensate for collapsed tech bubble" Krugman and summers looking at each other like the kids who intended to break a window so their dads got some work, but knowing they killed the doggie behind the window too.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:36 | 1878229 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

They don't see it. They believe that they can fix the new problems with the old tools. When actually the told tools got us here in the first place. They fail to understand that the downward spiral is already in place. 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:38 | 1878232 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Now wait a minute you fuckers, give Krugman a break.  He's ALWAYS said the stimulus was WAY TOO SMALL and that it wouldn't work.  He also said that if Obama shot his wad with the little stimulus then he wouldn't politically be able to come back for more.  Regardless of whether you agree fundamentally with his economics you've got to admit he was 100% correct.  Maybe just maybe if he had been the one in the WH instead of Summers, we might be in better shape right now in many ways.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:03 | 1878275 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

Maybe just maybe if he had been the one in the WH instead of Summers, we might be in better shape right now in many ways


Politically speaking he was correct about Obama-

Economically the debt problem would be worse-prices would be higher because of a weaker dollar and all the free investment bankers hot money gunning the commodity markets-unemployment would possibly be lower-but only because of some government bridge to nowhere projects and for sure bankers bonuses would have been much sweeter-

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:56 | 1878258 andyupnorth
andyupnorth's picture

The US dollar will strengthen and strengthen until debts are so unserviceable that the greenback spontaneously combusts!

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:57 | 1878261 andyupnorth
andyupnorth's picture

I'm expecting that the death of the Euro will provide great insight on how the Greenback will croak.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 00:59 | 1878266 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

What do you want to bet Summers is wearing womens panties.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:19 | 1878305 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture


I'll go twenty with you that they're crotchless.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:17 | 1878302 CaptA
CaptA's picture

I'd watch this, but I'm not all that fond of uncontrolled vomiting.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:20 | 1878307 eblair
eblair's picture

Really a very superficial debate.  Learn more from the comments on ANY ZH thead. 

Krugman can't use the "fraud" word.  Yet, he says we need to tell the truth??  Uh, talking about financial system fraud would be about 1/3 of the truth that needs to be told, but super pussy Krugman can't even do that.

Derivates aren't mentioned at all.  

If this is what economists have to tell us, why is there a Nobel Prize for it??

Good news is I finally understand economics.   Bad news is we are fucked.


Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:26 | 1878316 emaij
emaij's picture

Too painful to watch.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:47 | 1878338 Illustro
Illustro's picture

They are NOT JEWS.  None of them believe in G*D! They are Jews by name alone. They have no relations to the Religion, the people or the heritage.

  They despise of their fellow Jews and hate the state of Israel even more.  They are a bunch of Socialist empty heads that seek to destroy our way of life.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 01:48 | 1878342 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Jews with views.  Count me out.

How about this, Jews:  Fuck the Fed, and Fuck Israel.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:22 | 1878373 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

As always, Rosie did not disappoint, rocked the house.

Krugman is a clueless idiot with bizarre money printing and excessive spending delusions.

Summers is a stupid asshole with grandiose delusions (or delusions of grandeur).

Bremmer is a silly clown.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:32 | 1878380 Absalon
Absalon's picture

The only things fundamentally wrong with Canada are:

1)   The US is fucked and dragging it down (and the super committee is about to make things much worse)

2)  Federal taxes are now too low

3)  Ontario keeps electing idiots provincially



Tue, 11/15/2011 - 10:30 | 1878970 JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

the fundemtal problem in Canada is the Reform Party wingnuts in charge. They are going to bankrupt the country with Jails, Jets and Jesus

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 02:43 | 1878387 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture

Note:  three out of four of the debaters would, by current standards, likely be classified as obese.  So these are the influential men espousing ways to regiment the national economy yet they cannot be bothered with regulating their own diet or exercise routines.  

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 04:01 | 1878428 Milton Waddams
Milton Waddams's picture


Summers is betting on the short cycle; while krugman & rosenberg are betting on chaos.  The last guy seems to be vying for a media spot.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 04:57 | 1878450 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

Krugman; "it was Tojo, who got us out".

Give that man a Nobel Peace Prize!

(and Tojo a posthumous Nobel for Economics) 

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 06:36 | 1878480 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

mortgage = death pledge.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 06:38 | 1878483 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

jews jewing jewfully.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:11 | 1878504 Primalus Screamus
Primalus Screamus's picture

"North America faces a Japan style era of high unemployment and slow growth an accurate forecast of the future."


Huh?  Japan had "high employment"?  When?  Where?


Do those people even know what they are talking about?

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:12 | 1878507 Primalus Screamus
Primalus Screamus's picture

Oops, I meant "high unemployment."  Something Japan never had.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 07:19 | 1878511 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

I'm still waiting for Krugnuts to debate Bob Murphy.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 08:28 | 1878595 belogical
belogical's picture

The Blind leading the Blind

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 08:42 | 1878632 m111ark
m111ark's picture

Really, did anyone get thru the whole program?  Can you actually listen to that fat fuck without wanting to break something?

However, not even Rosie will lay out the real problem, and it's so simple.

Debt money demands a growing economy to pay off the debt... a constricted energy environment  makes unlimited growth impossible, therefore, debt money as a monetary system is doomed to fail. 

That's the problem is just a few words. 

The solution also requires just a few words... debt free money, spent into the economy by responsible soveriegn nations.  Growth may, but does not need, to occurr.

Of course, that means a total system reboot.  Not likely as long as people give any credance to knaves and fools like these.




Tue, 11/15/2011 - 13:25 | 1879550 manodedios
manodedios's picture

wtf krugman's talking about. i swear, you can give him the mic for 24hrs, and he still wouldn't make much of fucking sense.

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 13:42 | 1879582 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Man that Ian Bremmer seems like a douche bag, doesn't seem to be as smart as he thinks...

Tue, 11/15/2011 - 16:30 | 1880089 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"The central irony of financial crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence, too much borrowing and lending and too much spending, it can only be resolved with more confidence, more borrowing and lending, and more spending."

larry summers is a total and complete prime grade fucktard....on top of that he is a financial and economic terrorist...

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