Watch Rosenberg And Krugman Debate Larry Summers and Ian Bremmer On Whether The US Is Turning Into Japan

Tyler Durden's picture

Minutes ago, the always delightful Munk Debate on the American economy concluded, which pitted two skeptics: David Rosenberg and (yes, he is a skeptic when it comes to his belief in the "proper" implementation of Keynesianism) Paul Krugman on the one hand defending the null motion of the debate, against Larry "Warren (watch the clip)" Summers, best known for destroying capitalism, and Ian Bremmer. The core debate topic was as follows: "North America faces a Japan style era of high unemployment and slow growth an accurate forecast of the future." Naturally, as Krugman immediately explained, by North America the organizers mean the US, simply because Canada is too small and hasn't screwed up enough (we would add that the screw up has not been perceived yet: everyone has screwed up, but luckily we have enough distractions for the time being). Either way, the progression of the debate should not come as a surprise to most, neither how each particular economist will perform: that Rosie sees Japan in every aspect of the US should not surprise anyone; that Krugman does too unless the politicians agree to being invaded by aliens, is also to be expected. On the other side, "Warren" Summers' argument can be simplified to his fallback motto of Keynesianism and Central Planning 101 in which he believes that the printing of money and job creation are sufficient to fix all US problems. No surprise there either: after all this is the man who three weeks ago said: "The central irony of financial crisis is that while it is caused by too much confidence, too much borrowing and lending and too much spending, it can only be resolved with more confidence, more borrowing and lending, and more spending."

So while certainly an interesting way to spend 90 minutes, we urge readers not to expect any preconceptions to be overturned (possibly quite the opposite). If anything, we urge readers to fast forward to 34 minutes into the clip to listen to Larry Summers' prepared remarks to realize the unprecedented degree of delusion that is being exhibited by the man who was Obama's right hand advisor during the key period in the "rebound" from 2009 to 2010. It is no wonder that the US economy is now in a worse condition than ever, and flirts with complete socio-economical collapse on a daily basis (as does Europe and the rest of the "developed" world) only to be pulled back from the abyss by the latest and greatest monetary and fiscal stimulus. Because should the methadone be taken away, the addict will die on the spot.

The supreme irony of course is that for the grand reset to finally occur, what we need is not one or two more "Summerses", but a countless army of such delusional lunatics whose idiotic actions will finally destroy this country, ushering in a new and better age where we can finally restart from scratch.

Watch the full debate below. It begins roughly 17 minutes in.

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Tortfeasor's picture

Summer's waistline has recovered at least two more sizes since getting out of gubermint.

On another note, recovery requires admitting there's a problem.  Of these four, only Rosie really can admit that.

paarsons's picture

He's a fat little bastard.  I'll grant you that.

But I bet he still gets more pussy than us.

Money talks.

LaLiLuLeLo's picture


he's more likely to be into little fat ginger boys.

This will be hard news for Larry but it wasn't that inconceivable that Americans voted for a black man, disregarding every notion of his misunderstanding of the economy and how it functions just to say: “we needed to get over it.” Passing out blankets in SS Chicago doesn't make you qualified to lead during a depression. on second thought...


SMG's picture

We won't be turning into Japan.  It will be much worse than that.

FEDbuster's picture

Japan? We should be so lucky.

sushi's picture

The central irony of Summer's position, that the problems can

". . . only be resolved with more confidence, more borrowing and lending, and more spending."

Is that this is exactly the position taken by Japan. They built hugely expensive bridges to nowhere, they borrowed and borrowed and have never stopped borrowing and they lent and spent and still they are stuck in the mud.

The only thing Japan has that the USA has not attempted is that Japan has Yakuza. But the US has Congress so the two nations are a draw.

The Big Ching-aso's picture



On a long enough time-line hyper intelligent fat fucks go on to infinity and we end up with Heaven.

mannfm11's picture

Summers was voted in a poll put out by Steve Keen as the most destructive economist on earth.  The guy should be put on a hook and used to troll sharks.  The people in the audience should have been given rocks to throw instead of clapping for this bastard.  If his uncle wasn't Paul Samuelson, he would be totally unknown and probably cooking cheese burgers on skid row.  

Postkey's picture

"Adam Posen, the most recent recruit to the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy Committee, who is one of the leading scholars on the Japanese economy, said growth in the Japanese economy had repeatedly been stifled by premature tax rises and “withdrawal of public investment and zeroing out of public consumption”. The result has been a 20-year period of stagnation and higher debt levels. “The picture,” Dr Posen said, “is of a market economy showing natural tendencies to recovery being stymied by policy mistakes.”

Japan’s experience has demonstrated conclusively, according to Dr Posen, that fiscal policy has exactly the growth effects described by Keynesian economics."


The Big Ching-aso's picture



Ya, Japan's real lucky.   Glow in the dark lucky.

xcehn's picture

Saying the worse it's ever going to get is the near equivalent of Japan's lost era is a ploy to avoid considering the far more realistic scenarios involving collapse.  The US is running on the increasingly exctinct fumes of its reserve currency status.  A few commenters seem to think the criminal governments will be able to print their way into a collapse-free future.  As Putin would say:  Is it really so?

philipat's picture

Barry Ritholtz recently described Summers as "The biggest asshole in the US", and whilst there are plenty of other very deserving contendors for this honour, he does get my vote.

The difference between the US and Japan is that the Japanese have great social cohesion, work hard and save. Also the Japanese actually produce things and successfully export them. Conversely, the US economy is based on instant (Credit driven) gratification and conspicuous consumption. I fear that unless major structural reforms take place in the US (And there aren't any signs that they will), unemployment will remain high, aggregate demand will decline and the consumer-driven economic model will not be sustainable. So I share the view that coming out like Japan is a very optimistic scenario.

jcaz's picture

Yep- I don't mind a few assholes- Central Planning is full of them- but Summers is a particularily obtuse piece, who consistantly fails to consider any view other than his own opaque, psuedo-intellectual Ivory Tower Socialist bullshit; 

No one wants to work with him not because he is "abrasive", but because he's a fucking idiot who somehow manages to inject himself into the conversation over and over again......

The Big Ching-aso's picture



Shit, not another confab of douchebags and fat fucks.    Just what we need right now to solve the crisis.

Banksters's picture

Larry the hut Summers proves that in politics and finance, people fail upwards.   

I have spoken, 

BITCHEZZZZZZZ! - a term of endearment, bitchezzzZZZZZZZ!

Unprepared's picture

Why would I do that?

Let them eat iPads's picture

Krugman should immediately be sacrificed to the aliens in order to appease them.

Doesn't matter if they haven't arrived yet, it's best to get a head start on these things.

Yancey Ward's picture

I am preparing my new book:  40 Ways to Serve Krugman.

The Big Ching-aso's picture



Speaking of meals, at the break did they serve Larry his usual dozen donuts?

Eireann go Brach's picture

Humpty Dumpty Summers sat on the wall, his ass was so fucking fat he collapsed the house and all, does he deserve to be hanged by one ball, yes he does in front of a public mall!

Libertarian777's picture

there once was an economist named Summer

who went to work for Obummer

they printed and spent

and took liberties and lent

and wondered why the economy's dumber

Let them eat iPads's picture

You guys are good!

Betcha can't do a Haiku on this topic.

buckethead's picture

Seasoned economists

Discussing the ways and means

By which we shall starve

catch edge ghost's picture

buy the fucking dip / buy the mother fucking dip / buy the fucking dip

do it then again / again as in never end / a gain begins when

all your tommorows / every last yesterday / set you up the bomb

caerus's picture

krugman should be hanged

by freedom loving people

from the highest tree


edit: works for summers too

Jim in MN's picture

There once was an idol called Keynes

Whose worship caused manifold pains

The debt load grew higher

To the chant 'multiplier'

'til Freedom burst forth from her chains


IMA5U's picture

summers is an a55 and can go to hell


nice flavor savor krugman

TheAkashicRecord's picture


All countries will be neo-feudalistic fiefdoms subservient to the international finance cabal enabled by transnational governmental organizations.  

Global problems require global solutions they will say, adopting any “solutions” after this line of logic will lead to a particular future they have been shaping for quite some time. 

By understanding our largely Pavlovian responses, creating crises, offering solutions to those crises, and claiming "there are no other options," they can create certain futures with startling accuracy.  


JR's picture

Good stuff.

These people have gone beyond debauching the currency as Lenin advocated; they’ve debauched the political system, the justice system, the democratic institutions that we have -- and because of this they have overridden representative government.

Economic justice can only be found in the marketplace where millions of individuals make economic decisions daily in their own best interests. Says John McManus: “The founders of the United States wanted real competition in the banking industry, no irredeemable paper money, no inflation, and no manipulation from on high of interest rates or the value of the currency.

Instead, says McManus, Americans are forced into choosing from false and harmful alternatives.  In a nutshell, he says, here is what students are being taught:

“When the value of the dollar is high relative to other currencies, our domestic economy ‘slows down’ because foreign goods become more attractive and consumers buy overseas.  As a consequence, our nation experiences a trade deficit, and exporters are up in arms. The way to cure this problem is to lower the value of the dollar and expand the money supply by reducing interest rates.

“But when the value of the dollar sinks relative to the currencies of other nations, domestic goods become more attractive and the economy ‘heats up.’  The trade deficit becomes a surplus, and importers are up in arms. The cure for this development is to boost the value of the dollar and contract the amount of currency in circulation by raising interest rates.

“It is obvious that there is a need for great flexibility and enduring wisdom when the value of the dollar is established, interest rates are established, and the amount of currency is set. That is why the best available geniuses are appointed to decision-making posts at the Federal Reserve. And to keep their decisions from being influenced by political considerations, the members of the Fed’s board who make these important determinations are appointed for 14-year terms by the President.

“While the President has the power to choose like-minded individuals for these sensitive posts, their 14-year terms guarantee that each will outlast him. Therefore, Fed leaders, who are encouraged but not required to consult with the President and Congress from time to time, are able to undertake moves that might not be popular with the reigning Administation. Aren’t we fortunate in America to have such a marvelously conceived system managing the nation’s economy?”

In  short, America has been saddled with a Marxian program; it was Marx and Lenin and Stalin and Warburg who advocated a monopolistic bank with all power over money in the hands of the elite few.

Bob's picture

Students are beginning to agitate against what they're being taught at Harvard:

ffart's picture

And this is different from what we already have... how?

kito's picture

Turning into japan means less crime, more civilized society, healthier populace, tech savvy citizens, repsect for elders, high real estate prices, strong exports.....hmmm...doesnt sound like the u.s. is turning into japan anytime soon....

Rollerball's picture

Samurai swords into time-shares.  Brilliant! 

Long live the slow death of Kill Dollar Bill/yen hairy-carry!

Go stick your head in a microwave and evolve mutant. 

kito's picture

ha!!!  looking at where america is heading, i dont think im the one with the need to evolve. 

Dave Thomas's picture

You forgot panties in vending machines!


Snail tracks bitchez!

LowProfile's picture

And radiation everywhere, and a goobermint that tells you everything is fine with that!

The Big Ching-aso's picture



And don't forget radioactive everything coupled with cancer rates climbing upwards like Mt. Fuji.     It would make a beautiful Japanese ink on silk canvas rendering.

JW n FL's picture

if this dont move ya.. get out of my country, bitch!

catch edge ghost's picture

Stab yourself in the face until the pain stops.

Jim in MN's picture

Meanwhile on the actual planet Earth, and in the actual Japan even....

Japan farm radioactive levels probed

New research has found that radioactive material in parts of north-eastern Japan exceeds levels considered safe for farming.

The findings provide the first comprehensive estimates of contamination across Japan following the nuclear accident in 2011.

Food production is likely to be affected, the researchers suggest.

BigInJapan's picture

Not a chance in Hell that food production will be reduced.
It's becoming rather unfashionable and almost taboo to bring up radioactive food in conversation over here.
COSTCO - the only safe source of food in Japan.

Jim in MN's picture

I found this rather chilling:

"Radioecologist Nick Beresford from Centre of Ecology and Hydrology in Lancaster explained that once in soil, caesium will become bound to mineral components, which limits its uptake into plants.

However, this process depends on the soil type. "Caesium stays mobile for longer in organic soils, hence why England and Wales still have some post-Chernobyl restrictions in upland areas," he told BBC News."