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"We Are All Greeks" - SocGen Presents The New World Order

Tyler Durden's picture


"We are all Greeks" - so begins one of the best reports on the unsustainability of the status quo, and on what "the new world order" will look like, created by SocGen's Veronique Riches-Flores. Her overarching observation: "No one can claim immunity from a Greek-style spiral" because "Our economies are mature, with weak potential GDP, especially post the financial crisis" and due to that old standby which everyone chooses so conveniently to forget, yet which is the biggest threat to the world's "welfare-state" stability, in existence since 1860 and which has been responsible for not only the longest period of peace in world history, but for the longest stealth plundering of middle-class wealth (there is indeed no such thing as a free lunch): "We are aging - we have no chance to see our future income improving substantially in the long run ; our savings capacities are shrinking and our health and pensions spending is increasing." That, in a nutshell, is it, no matter how many protracted essays one reads predicting the future (or war in Europe): the truth is there is increasingly less cash flow, coupled with increasingly more demands for cash.

Unlike before, where growth could be masked by incremental new debt in either the public or private sector (that strawman which for decades allowed Keynesianism and its modern versions to flourish despite its fatal flaws), this time around, there is no more debt capacity dry powder. In SocGen's words - 1) at 100% of OECD's GDP, even if the primary deficit disappeared as of today, it would still require three years to stabilize the debt ratio, and 2) the fiscal consolidation required - returning to 60% of GDP - would take a minimum of 10 years according to the OECD, 20 years according to the IMF. Here is where the report gets a slightly political twist, one which those GOPers capable of simple math, could easily use in their debates with democrats over the proper way of achieving fiscal stability: "of the 107 episodes of fiscal adjustments observed in the past 40 years the most efficient in terms of fiscal results and least costly in terms of growth have been the ones based on spending drag rather than tax increases."

And therein lies the rub: with the average age of the global developed world population older now than it has ever been in the history of the welfare state experiment, the last thing a politically unstable world can afford is to spring upon the population that there is simply "no moah money." Or at least not in a world which does not want to experience the aftermath of hundreds of millions of formerly 'entitled' people suddenly realizing they have been lied to for decades and all those golden years have suffered the fate of aaand it's gone.

It gets worse:

Fiscal austerity efforts are more accessible when they are carried out in isolation (their depressive effects can be offset by growth in the rest of the world)

60% of the past episodes of adjustment lasted less than one year; none of them dealt with as many economies as are involved today

At this point we read one of the scarier observations which SocGen reaches: "SG current economic scenario suggests that the public expenditures to GDP ratio could surge to 45% of 2015%." Yes, that means that nearly half of global economic output will rely on the government/entitlement programs and vice versa. We leave it to the 'Austrians' in our audience to explain to everyone else what this means.

With no other way out, at least fiscally (the monetary discussion is a whole different topic, and one which will be a source of ever increasing tension both in the US and Europe, where as the most recent bailout demonstrated on one hand the ECB is demanding the creation of a fiscal union and the issuance of Eurobonds to remove "money printing" pressure from it, while the fiscal authorities will hear none of it and instead demand that the ECB print ever more in order to avoid blame when it all goes horribly wrong), the next step is a substantial cut in public investment. The social response will not be enjoyable.

But probably the most damning piece of evidence for the upheaval that is coming is not some recent revelation, but the conclusion from an S&P report published 5 years ago, that is before the GFC had even come to its predictable end. It represents the long-term forecast of sovereign debt ratings by Standard and Poors by decade, beginning in 2020 and going all the way through 2040. All we can say is: Canada better prepare to receive lots and lots of immigrants (and Europe, whose entire future is now reliant on the credit rating of the world's most complex structured credit instrument ever conceived, which in turn depends on the AAA-rating of constituent countries, is done).

Full slideshow:



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Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:15 | 1825524 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Drink if ya got em...

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:20 | 1825537 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I'll go pour one now. 


Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:30 | 1825631 Broker NotBroke
Broker NotBroke's picture

So how do we buy the dip?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:39 | 1825751 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Wait for the inevitable dip, and then throw your fiat into the fire.

Volatility will stay high for years, but that also means it will subside at times.  Leo, in all of his solar glory, and Robo for this matter too, are very correct when they say buy the dips; what matters most is how well you walk through the fire.

Personally, I do not care to touch equity, for who knows what can happen with a corporation.  Which will be the next BP, NFLX?  Which will be the next sector to take a hit?  Solar, tech?  Which will miss earnings or have an accident that will undermine their company?  Apple, for example, has a long way to fall.  What if they miss earnings again next quarter?

I am also not keen on debt.  Corporate debt can have the same fate as equity, and watching Europe right now reminds me that a credit event can come across the pond to the shores of the Almost an Empire.  Rates will rise eventually, and ubtil then, Bernake and Timmah will issue and print beyond our wildest dreams.

That is why I prefer to have my investment in my hands.  That is why I prefer to own precious metal.

PM is greatly undervalued, and if someone is not in the market any price will do.  But like all smart investing, dollar cost averaging into PM is wise.  Wait for the dips if you think you can.  Or just buy.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:13 | 1826234 end da fed
end da fed's picture

what is GFC?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:40 | 1825639 Keri at Bankste...
Keri at Bankster Report's picture

Off topic, but I just noticed that Bloomberg's Commodity page is now reporting the HKMex bids on silver and gold. As far as I know, this is the first time they've done that: I didn't see it listed this way on Friday, either, so it might be new.

There's a 20 cents spread on gold, with the COMEX price being higher. And for silver, there is a 27 cents spread, with the HKMex being higher.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 09:56 | 1826086 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"We are all Greeks now"

As Margaret Thatcher famously said... 'The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend'...

Perhaps "We are all socialists now" would have been a more accurate title?


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 11:36 | 1826181 drand02
drand02's picture

Just like nature, if your slow, not paying attention, old, or sick you become lunch or dinner. No one can say nature is fair, only that the strong survive,

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:35 | 1826275 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

We don't run out of "other people's money," we run out of "other people's debt."

The monetary system we currently follow is collectivist in structure and these issues that we are facing now are baked into the system.

Also, all you who idolize Reagan and Thatcher need to examine their deficit spending histories and and then make an honest determination about how much they aspired to achieve the goals set out in their rhetoric.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:35 | 1826276 AdahPrice
AdahPrice's picture

The rich play Socialism, and play it better than anyone else.

For example, a power company gets the State legislature to add a charge to every homeowner's monthly power, which charge is strictly for the building fund to build an ADDITIONAL, NEW nuclear plant.  Then after the hapless homeowners have paid for the plant, and the plant has been built, the power company gets to charge the homeowners for electricity from "its" plant.

In addition, other rich Socialists might tag on, claiming that the new nuke plant "clearly" needs more "Homeland Security", and that means spying on anyone who might drive close to the new plant, which "anyone" ends up being all the homeowners who just paid for the plant.

And that's just a power company.

The Federal Reserve Bank owners (whose name are kept secret, right?) get the ultimate Socialist benefits, "their own" currency, which they can use to pay for anything they want, backed by the "full faith and credit" of the USA, which means the dilution via inflation of every American's savings.

(And those owners might not even be Americans, right?  We don't who they are, right?)

The list goes on and on and on and on.  The real reason Socialism is hard to end is that so many rich and powerful people have their own massive Socialist pilfering schemes going.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:15 | 1825526 MaggieL
MaggieL's picture

"We are all Greeks. Bend over."

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:18 | 1825533 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I thought we were all Keynesians?  What happened to printing our way out of hell?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:25 | 1825550 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Keynes said governments should SAVE in times of good so they could SPEND in bad times.   He would be horrified at the unffettered money printing that is going on now.  Some debt would be allowable if it was needed to boost economies but the level of goverment debt now is impossible to service.  The WAY government spends is also an issue - money needs to be spent in a way that provides some form of 'value creation'.  You don't simply give out money to feed consumption..  Money creation should be offset with value creation.  If you expand the mone supply without adding additional 'value' to the economy, you guarantee inflation.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:30 | 1825556 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

The biggest problem with "Keynesianism" (whose definition we use it in its bastardized practical version, not idealized textbook theoretical), is that it never accounted for that core human drive, which ironically it facilitated: greed. Because how often do you see any of the 99%ers, or 1%ers for that matter, set aside proportionately more when faced with bumper years? Right: what ends up happening according to empirical studies is that when Wall Street bankers generate record bonuses, they simply leverage themselves even more, assuming the golden years will continue into perpetuity, a truism which the banks themselves use all too effectively by locking said bankers into submission to a given company using 60% of compensation in the form of unvested stock. The same is true for everyone else, as well as governments.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:06 | 1825605 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Doesn't matter communism, capitalism, keynesianism....without accountability at the top, you just end up with corruption.


Antidote to corruption is transparency of the process to empower the populace to take action.


that's why wikileaks is being shut down...for exposing that the king is naked.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:41 | 1825642 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

julian assange explicitly stated last week that their funding apparatus has to be restructured and re-organization,... therefore it will cease temporarily the distributions of said wikileaks  downloaded files -

his life is in grave danger, and must tread carefully,... for the queen of spad's wants his trophy head -

god bless you, julian assange    

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:36 | 1825797 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Wikileaks is too theatrical.  Why can't the new business model be this:  leaked data --> bittorrent?  It's basically free.  Why the massive funding requirement and enormous delays in leaking information (where is the BoA leak that was supposed to be released last January)?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:41 | 1825809 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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[W]here is the BoA leak that was supposed to be released last January?

Someone threatened his life?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:03 | 1825832 prains
prains's picture

It's probably not his life that was threatened, much more powerful motivation

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 04:00 | 1825902 MolotovCockhead
MolotovCockhead's picture

It's probably not his life that was threatened, much more powerful motivation


Must have been threaten by Anticorruption!

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 08:22 | 1826005 CPL
CPL's picture


QuantOS is the one you are looking for.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 10:53 | 1826122 tamboo
tamboo's picture

ratfaced jewlian on the cover of time? puhleeze, fake as a $3 bill.

Netanyahu: WikiLeaks cables prove Israel is right on Iran

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:30 | 1825673 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

And what causes the corruption to take place?  Could it not be human nature?  The antidote is adherance to the  US Constitution, for it limits how much responsibility the Federal Gov't has. When power is centralized and concentrated the corruption springing from it effects more people. When the power is localized and limited, or maintained by the individual, corruption is minimized.  Corruption is inherent in all mankind, this the Founders knew and dealt with it the best way by containing it. So the Constitution won't prevent corruption, nothing will, but it keeps it transparent, right in front of you where you can see it.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 05:40 | 1825933 nmewn
nmewn's picture


And knowing that people & politicians will always choose a spoon full of sugar over a spoonful of vinegar, I would postulate it to be impractical to downright impossible for government to amass a rainy day fund in the good times to have for those rainy days.

They simply can't be trusted (more than any other entity I would say) with a basket of cash sitting in front of them.

Government expenditures should match government revenue always. If revenues don't keep up with expenditures, spending must be cut just as it is in the private sector.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 10:27 | 1826107 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

nmewn... exactly right.

...and, when governments are spending constricted by a PM currency they get rid of it and go to fiat. At first, fiat backed by PMs or partially backed by PMs, but eventually to currency backed by nothing but 'future tax revenue stream + faith'...

SOS... over, and over, and over... A war between those who want to save and those who want to spend and pull demand forward by means of 'easy fiat money'.

'Here we are with a handful of holes, a thumb up our ass and a grin on our face to pass the time of day'. Edmond O'Brien... 'The Wild Bunch'...

Who could have said it better?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 11:40 | 1826189 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"SOS... over, and over, and over... A war between those who want to save and those who want to spend and pull demand forward by means of 'easy fiat money'."

That leads to my working theory of why we have a Federal Reserve imposed on us. Politiicians have the burden of their spending votes hidden under mountains of future debt.

The bankers came slithering in saying we can fund your dreams of war & welfare and you will never be held accountable. Almost a century has gone by now. The ones who made that deal are gone...but the monster lives on.

Piss on it...I'm taking the kids to the fair.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:04 | 1826224 JR
JR's picture

Good one, nmewn. 

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 18:39 | 1826872 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Thanks JR.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 18:56 | 1826904 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Keynes was one of the most dangerous types of individual.

The very smart & articulate educated idiot.

Ignoring (or hiding?) just one little tiny weakness in your own favorite theory leads the whole world to ruin.

(fancy "the paradox of thrift" anyone)....

This is why we must reject the collectivist approach totally and foster individuality, as America was designed to do.

Only then can mistakes be contained to a small group and diversity among the people increase the chances of new solutions being found.

For as long as we continue to let others decide our destiny we remain enslaved by our own system. ...Why ARE we forced to use someone else's currency, to our own detriment?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 20:04 | 1827035 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Keynes knew exactly what he was up to. He said as much in the foreward to his GT...the German language edition.

As to whether the majority of the populace has been beat down to the point of ceding their individuality to the state, that will be decided when the great reset happens.

I don't believe they have or ever will.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 22:33 | 1827340 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

I also think that the natural state of man is to be a sovereign entity.

It is only when we are controlled and manipulated through strong leadership, mass media, religion, terror, financial mass delusions etc: That we start acting as a herd animal.

Take these things away and most people will basically mind their own business and do their own thing while getting along ok within their group.

Obviously this is unacceptable for those who would seek to control us all so the brainwashing must continue or even be stepped up.

Like you i don't think it will work however.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 11:51 | 1826201 4horse
4horse's picture

it could not be more apparent than it has been, and utterly transparent since 9/11

                        . . . and what words heard as it happened  .  .  .


while over a century ago, better minds, using words, already knew the imperative: What is to be done?

and What then must we do?


nothin then. nothin now. nothin new


even while among us that passed torch was being handed, across time. across nations. across past history known like the-back-of-his-own-hand, while in our very midst we let it extinguish, as we all still sit here talking. typing. again cursing the selfsame dark

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 05:13 | 1825925 css1971
css1971's picture

My investment decisions are based on the assumption that people are vain, greedy and lazy and that our "leaders", politicians and bankers are the most vain and most greedy of us all.

It has been highly successful for me.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:46 | 1825648 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

doesn't account for manifest incompetence either. "Wall Street can't account for risk" comes to mind. I mean "i blew up Bear Stearns because the market moved against me." REALLY? Listen: no one is arguing the "we're out of money defense" because the government keeps demanding the banks lend more...and basically they do. Sometimes even that lending goes to you and me but by an large they simply lend to the same government that demands they lend more and call it "banking." The problem is that government is so expensive we can't afford it. So while the banks "money/anti-money converter" is up and humming along just fine "the State of Nebraska just blew up." That's not the problem of the banks...that's a problem with "housing" and how state and local taxes are (not) collected and inability to control "the urge to splurge." Now i do like the concept of "having Nebraska traded publicly on the NYSE" and say "your ability to run for office is dependent upon whether or not you actually own any shares in the State of Nebraska." Needless to say Warren Buffet would be a VERY IMPORTANT MAN under such a regime. And MAN let me tell ya! If you thought he was having fun running a railroad wait 'till he ran a country! Having said that everyone here including the government needs to get ready for the coming collapse not of a fiat regime but a debt regime. "Banks only lending to their respective governments" is not an economy--let alone a market and one need only see the quotes of the Prime Minister of Greece saying "it's okay to buy Greek banking stocks now."'s not okay to buy Greek banking stocks now. The ECB did not announce a recapitalization of the Greek banking system after demanding the haircuts "from those other EVIL banks." I mean WHO'S THE PHUCKING DIPSHIT WHO CAME UP WITH THIS THING? Indeed i wouldn't be surprised if Greek yields exploded right back to where they were on Thursday by the end of this week given this so called "solution."

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 10:36 | 1826115 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Yor're points are all valid DisabledVet... But this is The Point:

"The problem is that government is so expensive we can't afford it"

Governments have 'run out of other people's money to spend'... So they are simply printing more money.

Anyone think that is a sound, long term solution?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:47 | 1825651 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

May I add a second problem? Keynesianism was hijacked by ideologues, and twisted to suit their agendas.

The largest clique of ideological hijackers came from the left, the cradle-to-grave welfare staters, and in Keynes they saw a perfect rationale to do what they always wanted to do anyway -- spend more -- and do so under the rubric of "science".

A second, smaller faction came from the right. They saw a chance to keep taxes low (without going through the pain of actually cutting spending, and possibly suffering for it at the ballot box) and treating the resulting deficits with nonchalance.

I'm not claiming Keynesianism would work over the long term, in fact I don't think it will, but our problems would be vastly smaller if the West's political/academic classes had the slightest trace of intellectual honesty in their use of Keynes and his theories.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:56 | 1825662 Kassandra
Kassandra's picture

Really? Explain this to all the people who socked away billions (trillions?) in their 401k's during the "good old days" only to have it blown away in 2007/2008. Really? We weren't socking it away?? We weren't doing what we were supposed to??? We were too greedy? Really????

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:15 | 1826237 DonutBoy
DonutBoy's picture

+1.  Including my parents, who are now having their savings stolen to protect banks with utterly fictitious balance sheets.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:11 | 1825682 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Spot on, well done. Lord Keynes as hard as he tried, simply could not factor in human nature. The never ending inner drive and necessity to find an 'easier' way, by obliterating any and all rules laid before us. Keynesian theory did not fail us, we as humans, failed Keynesian theory. Throughout time, plans have always been laid, and have always seen deviation, and have always failed. It is inherrent in our nature not to follow the rules, therefore, we reap what we sow, and deserve nothing else. Our enemy resides in the mirror.  

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:12 | 1825838 prains
prains's picture

Tear it down, build it up, the cornerstone and keystones will always be greed. Can't build a culture without it, to not factor it as 1 means the equation is false. Then tearing it down only results in blood, if greed is truly factored in. Change is not the true result, but just another variation of greed only next time it's not controlled by the Red White & Blue.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 08:20 | 1826003 buchesky
buchesky's picture

I thought Canada was part of the great welfare experiment.  Why do they come out with AAA in 30 years?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 09:56 | 1826085 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

That AAA rating won't last long.  Eastern Canada is like Europe.  Expect Western Canada to separate within the 30 year period.

All in all, this report is fluff.  Societal values within Europe will change as people roll up their sleeves knowing they now have to work.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 08:29 | 1826009 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

"The same is true for everyone else, as well as governments."

Yes, we are more Greece than Greece - the US govt has $116.2 trillion in unfunded liabilities growing at more than $6 trillion a year with Medicare going bust by 2017 if not earlier.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 10:16 | 1826100 Mike2756
Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:51 | 1826315 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture


Interestingly the closest example I have seen to "true" Keynesianism (in its theoretical form) is the government of Alberta.  During the 2000's the government collected significant royalties from oil production and banked it.  They cleared all of their debt and saved money, now, during a revenue slow down they are tapping their own savings to maintain services.

I am aware that being an oil rich region provides revenues that most governments do not have access to, but taxes are low (for Canada), regulations are minimal (the province is planning to strip mine an area the size of Florida) and services are significant.

The province also has a history of implementing austerity during low times.  During the 1980's and 1990's significant government cuts across all services reduced the deficit spending to manageable levels so that when good times did return the debt was able to be cleared.

Anyway, I thought I'd add a counterpoint to the anti Keynsian discussion.

(disclaimer I don't really "follow" any particular economic philosophy as I am aware of the complexities of human society and economic systems, though I lean more towards small government and more individual freedoms)


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:50 | 1825863 whoisjohngalt11
whoisjohngalt11's picture

yes and Karl Marx is also Mis-understood, but that the problem is that they Marx  and Keynes were the smartest guys in the room and they were not that smart they had false assumtions that didn't work, False premises suck... try listening to Ron Paul a little more i don't like everything he says but he makes sense. No i am not one of THOSE Ron Paul Heads but government is stupid and the bigger the more stupid because it is made up of people like the E. U. Rulers who are busy  with self interst trying to make something work that can't and doing it with Half mesures .. Governments can do almost nothing well so why put your faith in them ??? If i screw up and you don't have to pay for my mistake then your better off. But what if you were forced to bail me out would i ever learn , when will people learn that Government and Central planners SUCK??

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 06:07 | 1825942 Marco
Marco's picture

The Austrians have blinders on too ... in a resource constrained world capital will always turn to risk free rent generating assets, in the absence of any redistributionary mechanism (ie. taxation) this will inevitably result in wealth concentration without end. Austrian economics only works when there is sufficient potential for growth, ie. the past.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:53 | 1826318 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 08:21 | 1826004 Shredd the FED
Sun, 10/30/2011 - 20:54 | 1827091 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Why didn't the young Greek man want to leave home?


He couldn't bear to leave his little brother's behind.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:20 | 1825538 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Greece is an extreme case.  They NEVER should have been allowed in the EU and got in only through faking financials (withthe help of GS).  

You have rampant tax evasion in Greece - with the wealthy putting up camoflage nets over swimming pools to avoid any efforts to get them to pay taxes on property.  At the same time you have an absurd expansion of governmental benefits that should NEVER have been allowed.  

You have massive OVEREMPLOYMENT and unneeded employment by government - the Greek railroad system being a prime example (worse than AMTRAK or the LIRR here in the US).   The Greek government has been spending far more than it takes in - and CORRUPTION has resulted in more waste (never ignore that - it's her ein the US as well, crony capitalism looting the government).  


There HAS top be a middle ground.  You should have a basic 'safety net' for society but people have to be rational in what they demand of government as well (with corporations needing to get OFF the government teat).  

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:45 | 1825576 paarsons
paarsons's picture

I think we'll continue to go up and down in an endless Japanese-style recession.

We're all fucked.

So what's a boy to do? 

Might as well just sing show tunes and masturbate to Becky Quick.

There are no other options.

Aaaahhhhhh!  The smell of serfs enjoying themselves.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:10 | 1825608 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

becky quick?


theres not enough beer in the world....

i wouldnt even consider her to be a possible 'slump buster'

now if i were thinkin' about liz clamen, thats different

but B.Q., OH, HELL NO!

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:15 | 1825616 paarsons
paarsons's picture

You'd do Becky in a heart beat.

No beer required!

In fact, we are both Becky's bitches.

Let's start telling the truth.

After all, it's not like we're filthy neo-liberal economics professors.

We do have our standards.


Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:26 | 1825626 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

wait a minute...

youre talkin' 'bout....

becky quick, on CNBS, right???

the one, when pregnant, looked like JABBA THE HUT, right?

man, you need to get glasses checked....

shes just WRONG!

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:29 | 1825632 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

she did good for the oracle of omaha, didn't she?  

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:37 | 1825636 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture



but when your that old, youll take anything you can get, espesally if its free, hes too cheap and stingy to pay for anything.....

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 05:17 | 1825926 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Why would you say this? You do realize there's a fuck-ton of good-looking women on this planet, yes? Billions of them. 

Anyway, will never understand why dudes idolize biatches on any screen (poster, tv, movies). In fact why idolize any woman, period? The second you walk out your door, it's a land of opportunity. The quicker you get this, the less desperate you'll sound appear.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 07:01 | 1825963 DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

All I know is that given the lack of a significant percentage of women on this site and most financially-related sites, the vast majority of them will be completely unprepared for the ensuing economic meltdown.  If you yourself are prepared, chances are good that you could be bangin' bitches like a high school quarterback in a couple years.  They will always run to the shelter of economic and physical safety and power.  Always.


Given they have absolutely no qualms about using men for their emotional needs (and spin it in such a way it's become socially acceptable), I have none for using them as a bed-warmer.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 10:51 | 1826123 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

DarkestPhoenix... "All I know is that given the lack of a significant percentage of women on this site and most financially-related sites, the vast majority of them will be completely unprepared for the ensuing economic meltdown"

Odd, women managed to survive in greater numbers than men throughout all of history. Some of them were so highly prized that they 'had faces that launched a thousand ships'...

I have never heard of a single man that had 'a face that launched a thousand ships'

Besides, there are many, many women that are extremely savvy in the field of economics... and any other field you care to mention.

So, women have an advantage over many men. Human nature at work. Get over it.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:41 | 1826289 DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

Women have survived in higher numbers because they're not the ones doing the fighting and scavenging in the are.  If you're prepared, you won't be one of those men, either.  You yourself said, "Some of them were so highly prized..." like possessions.  Because effectively, that's what they'll become.


The face that launched a thousand ships was more an excuse than anything else.  And it was a MAN who ordered those ships launched, anyway.  While we're on the subject, I've never known any woman who effectively ruled the entire world.  Alexander, Napolean, Khan....all MEN.  Women can't take over shit.  Spare me the Joan of Arc bullshit.


The only "advantage" women have over men is that even while they're in a position of complete weakness, they always have one, last thing they can barter with, if need be.  And you say there are "many, many women" in economics.  A handful, dude.  My quote specifically said "lack of a significant percentage".  The 500 that exist may be "many, many" to you, but to me it's a paltry percentage.  I would be willing to place bets that 90% of the world is unprepared for what is to come, and of those that ARE prepared (or think they are), 95% are most likely men.  But, as I said, they'll at least be able to put the crotch up on the auction block, because that shit always sells.

Mon, 10/31/2011 - 08:38 | 1828046 cgbspender
cgbspender's picture

Looks like you aced misogyny 101. I guess there's always room for another sexually repressed lout.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 16:17 | 1826551 akak
akak's picture

I have never heard of a single man that had 'a face that launched a thousand ships'

Because neither women nor large groups of gay men, traditionally, tended to be the ones who launched ships.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:23 | 1825782 knukles
knukles's picture

Liz Clayman.  Now there's something I can watch all day with the volume off while massaging my prostate.
She's Hot.
Hot I say.

BQ getting orthodontia wouldn't even get her into the same league of good looking as Liz.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 04:17 | 1825908 MindTheGAP
MindTheGAP's picture

Some people don't know the difference between EU and Eurozone but they think they know it all because they've read it in an interweaving newspaper that promotes specific interests (national, corporative etc).

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:21 | 1825540 skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

Could someone please translate the above article to 21 st century English?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:22 | 1825544 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Everybody, everywhere, is fucked...

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:21 | 1825541 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

I'll sum it up:

The entire Western world (let's even throw Japan in here while we're at it) is dead-flat fucking broke. They built up massive welfare states that weren't supported with current cash flow. Instead, they funded it with enormous amounts of worthless debt owned primarily by Asian economies. The same generation that built the flimsy house of cards also stopped having kids so the demographics look like ass, guaranteeing the debt can only be "paid back" (let's use that term loosely) by printing money.

The Asian economies (like China) own all this debt and realize what a fucking dumb mistake they made. Now, they're desperately (but slowly) trying to swap their worthless paper promises for hard assets before the USS Welfare State hits the iceberg and sinks beneath the waves.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:33 | 1825559 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

The welfare states didn't crash the world, CRONY CAPITALISM and CORRUPTION crashed the world.

Banks writing mortgages that they NEVER would have funcded if they had to retain them on their books, Wall Street firms securitizing crap mortgages and selling them as AAA secure to anyone dumb enough to listen,   a slew of mortgage brokers, appraisers and others who kept thata latest bubble going, along with the speculators counting on an ever rising market......  MILLIONS in unearned bonuses went to the execs who benefitted from the smoke an mirrors.

Add to this the no bid government contracts and government bail outs, rampant corruption and theft.......  you have governments paying absurd amounts to PRIVATE insurance companies and health care companies for OVERPRICED, BAD and often FRAUDULENT care for citizens.

The SOCIALIZATION of corporate LOSSES and government giveaways to 'connected' companies (Halliburton anyone?) has cost the world far more than the benefits going to ordinary citizens. 

Claw back the unearned profits and bonuses and you'll go a long way to paying off government debt.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:29 | 1825629 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

You are correct, but apparently there are many dumb shits out there that still believe Granny collecting social security is why were are broke instad of decades of WallStreet and City fraud....what cocksuckers believe that shit?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 06:49 | 1825959 Hedge Fund of One
Hedge Fund of One's picture

Both the welfare state and the crony capitalism enable each other in a circular spiral.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 21:15 | 1827126 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Claw back the unearned profits and bonuses and you'll go a long way to paying off government debt.


How about "clawing back" all those campiagn contributions to Obama, Fwank, Pelosi, et al from Fannie so Clinton appointee, CEO Frank Raines, could stuff Fannies books with that crap for big bonuses for himself?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:53 | 1825580 Hansel
Hansel's picture

The debt has never been supported by cash flow because the cash is backed by the debt.  Austerity or stimulus -- it doesn't matter because there has never and will never be enough money to pay the debt.  It's a systemic problem, but most people only talk about needing to "live within our means" or "stimulate by government spending."  Neither one will make the math work and the whole system makes no sense.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:46 | 1825650 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

F**k it, I'm starting to learn xenolinguistics so that when Aliens arrive on planet Earth, I will be hired to negotiate bailout terms with my fellow homo-sapiens and luckily get paid in ET$.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 09:04 | 1826036 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Unprepared I already have a patent on that you @sshole!

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:07 | 1825676 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

you mean "now China is caught up in the Greek Vortex too." Jim Chanos is spot on and will be wealthy beyond imagination once that property bubble (which the Chinese authorities have burst btw) really starts "plumbing the depths." Apparently the Europeans have sent "exactly the wrong person to negotiate" as well. North Dakota is booming and so soon will the rest of the upper mid-west (excluding Chicago I hope.) As this shale boom spreads (Ohio is your next boom state) you're gonna start seeing how quickly the "haves and have nots" can be separated once the money machine gets churning. "People will make so much money it will cause the other places to collapse far more quickly than they otherwise would." Wall Street is the last place you want to be right now. They're the one's who keep peddling "pile more debt on top of debt" when in fact their job is to do the exact opposite. It's crazy. What's needed is more EQUITY not debt. And as even ordinary people get that equity they'll want more thus depriving all other markets of "their money." I agree with TD something's wrong with the equity market given these macro events. I blame the Fed too...but not as part of some trading strategy but simply making money too cheap and not leaving any "alternative" investments like say...a house or a something that can go up in value or at least get a return on. Amazingly that even includes treasuries themselves.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:27 | 1825543 Fibz
Fibz's picture

People who think population is growing outside places like China and India have their head in the sand. Disease will probably cut down the numbers in those places eventually. A poor economy will exacerbate already declining populations in developed countries.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:40 | 1825545 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

where were the fucking Austrians to fight against the collectivism of Wall Street bankers?  Oh--right they were employed by Wall Street.  So they did nothing. Nothing but a bunch of limp dick Austrian school alumni.


Yall worried about minority collectivism from the general population, but ignored the huge power yielded to moneyed collectivism: wallstreet, and the too big to fail bankers.

The road to serfdom intersects with wallstreet, bitches.


p.s. the US is  a 2 tiered nation: the financial plutocracy whose money funds the election apparatus. Thus control the politicians. And a labour democracy, which absorbs the losses from the plutocrats, whether it be in higher taxes, inflation, or unemployment.


We are all serfs, now.

rage against the dying of the light.


Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:40 | 1825565 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You think Wall Street economists are Austrian?  You have much to learn.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:42 | 1825571 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

wtf. you think derivative traders are Keynesians?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:01 | 1825594 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I asked about Wall Street economists.

Traders don't care about anything except making themselves money.  They have no philosophy, only strategy.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:09 | 1825678 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

they are once the contract is declared null and void.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:27 | 1825627 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Hitler was Austrian. So was Eichmann,

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:40 | 1825721 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

So was Freud and his nephew, Eddie Bernays.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:28 | 1825787 knukles
knukles's picture

And the Trapp family

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:33 | 1825793 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

And Arnold and his Nazi fathers.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 15:06 | 1826563 akak
akak's picture

I think Arnold was more of an Austerian (in his acting mode, anyway).

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:26 | 1825617 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

 The road to serfdom intersects with Wallstreet?  No, the road to serfdom intersects with debt.  Now that's ol school Austrian. I'm surprised you didn't know this, or is it that this doesn't 'fit' your agenda?      And,'rage against the dying of the light?'  You have no idea what the light is.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:26 | 1825551 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

What is the batting average for this SocGen?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:41 | 1825567 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Like all banks, that depends on which side of the prop desk you are on.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:08 | 1825606 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

Thats what I thought - just another shitty bank. I thought they were on the short list for failure? What Is their motivation for a realistic report on the crisis? Other US banks have nothing to say negative - they are making excuses for CDS prices.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:11 | 1825680 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture


Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:10 | 1825569 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

As long as we can keep a police state from taking over, maintain our freedoms, and possibly, possibly even gain some of our freedoms back, it might not be all that bad. Sure life is going to change quite a bit. But is a slower paced life, knowing your neighbors, raising your kids yourself, living closer to family, and getting back to sound principals all that bad? It's the absence of all this in the name of greed that got us here in the first place.

Alright, I know, this is cheery. But let me have it cause this and all other indicators show the NWO moving into end game. This razors edge moment in time is going to decide the fate of freedom. We are about to witness the historical monumental collapse of a world wide credit and bond market bubble. Think 1850's if you want to make it.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:42 | 1825643 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

+1 for optimism

The NWO will(have) screw(ed)up. Simply put..."You can't fool all the people all the time."

There will still be vampire banks, sheeple, and enlightened-ZH-scalawags after TSHTF.

This isn't the first 'culling', nor the last. C'est la vie...

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:42 | 1825570 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"the aftermath of hundreds of millions of formerly 'entitled' people"

And still no mention of the Entitlement of the relative few making policy and pissing on the law... all at once.

There you'll find the headwaters

of this "entitlement" problem...

there is the original breeding ground of this "aftermath."

Razor-sharp analysis, Veronique, neglecting the perpetrators as they mesh more with the background every day and are lost in the noise.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:26 | 1825625 Bob
Bob's picture

The entitlement you reference is so comically evident in their notions of "it's downhill for the mases from here, sorry, 'we're' broke." 

That's some funny shit, really.  Total wealth is pretty damn high, yo!

To imagine that folks who have serious wealth are going to hold onto it when outnumbered a million to one by the very people they depend upon to provide them their various rents and services while their own means plummet is the height of absurdity. 

Unicorns and leprechauns.

It just ain't gonna play that way.  If I had significant wealth I'd get serious about finding a better answer to that particular problem . . . while I could still meaningfully influence the outcome.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 06:30 | 1825953 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Bob, this is not popular! You are pissing off both poor and rich with unnecessary truth!

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:43 | 1825574 Rynak
Rynak's picture


Of course, socgen as well as the tylers once again do not ask why this so called "wellfare state" exists from a purely economic and mathematical POV. I mean, asking that, could lead one to the opposite conclusion of what the banksters, the media, the megacorps, the majority of ZHers and the anti-socialists are telling people (simultaneusly, it would also show that the socialists aren't fixing anything at all, but are merely compensating an economic inbalance).

But sure, go on and do more of the same.... just like the keynesians. After all, if something has repeatedly resulted in the opposite of what it was supposed to do, then the answer obviously must be, that you haven't tried hard enough yet.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:40 | 1825641 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Wtf? The welfare state was set up tp provide a minimum support
system for the genuinely needy. This to be paid for by taxpayers & responsibly administered & managed by the respective incumbant governments. The fact that the majority of political parties are negligent once in power, does not negate the principle of a welfare state. So your point is?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:02 | 1825668 Rynak
Rynak's picture

You too didn't really ask why there is a need for the wellfare state - or at least its current extend.

Why aren't people capable of sustaining themselves? Why do they depend on someone else, just to survive?

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:32 | 1825705 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

That's a lot of rhetorical questions you use to try and frame your point.  Just come out and say what you mean and stop farting around.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:31 | 1825748 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I just said what i meant, dumbass:

Why are people unable to sustain their survival themselves and instead depend on someone else?

That's not rethorics. It is a plain simple question.

Or did you mean "I don't want to think - can't you just tell me?"

Kay, here you go: In the current system, people do absent entitlements depend on a job to survive. And there are less jobs than there are people.

Next, i'll also do the thinking for you, by asking the two followup questions:

1. Why do they depend on a job to survive?

2. How can there be a lack of jobs at all? After all, macroeconomically, you simply have "buyers" of workforce, "sellers" of workforce, a static amount of expenses per workforce unit, and in practice a LAW, that the expenses of the entire workforce MUST be satisfied.

Too complicated? Kay, i'll simplify it for you: Forget individuals. Simply imagine just two agents:

1. A nation providing workressources, which also has expenses that it needs to cover via the price at which it sells..... to the corporation.

2. A corporation that requires workressources, while also running expenses, which it needs to cover via the price at which it sells..... to the nation.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:32 | 1825706 Freebird
Freebird's picture

No need to ask - there will always be a percentage within society who will need handouts due to ignorance, mentally / physically handicapped, circumstance, government policy, racial prejudice etc. There is a vast difference in my interpretation between the welfaree concept, an underlying sense of entitlement & systemic abuse.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 01:00 | 1825753 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Maybe, but what does that have to do with the current global situation?

If we were talking about budget expenses on entitlements, in a nondefective and efficient economy, there wouldn't be any problem at all anyways. Actually, that kind and usage of entitlements is so different, that it has almost nothing in common with the state of things nowadays.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 17:29 | 1826801 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

His point is or should be that politicians always turn welfare states into completely irresponsible vote-buying frenzies, which lead to collapse and depression.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:45 | 1825579 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture



don't tell simon black about canada, BiCheZ!

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 09:30 | 1826061 CPL
CPL's picture

Tubby Black.  What a dirt bag.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:46 | 1825581 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

LMAO... 'the entitlement people'  - better lump in every SS recipient as well as ALL pensioners, because they are both entitlements.  Fact is though, that a handful of 1%er companies receive MORE WELFARE than the entire nation of entitlment folks.  

When the pensions are ended and the old people who made waaaay too much throughout their lives don't have a pot to piss in, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:42 | 1825640 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

So, it's You who decides if someone has made waaaay too much throughout their lives. Should i bow down?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:51 | 1825656 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Agree on the cronyism aspect but the fact that there would be an absence of "funds" to meet my generations pension "entitlements" was crystal clear 30 years ago... & yes, all the mofos have to take responsibility for their delusions, stupidity, financial recklessness & irresponsible behaviour. No sympathy.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 22:51 | 1825586 saiybat
saiybat's picture

The west is fucked. This banking panic is all about demographics and it's nothing compared to what is to come. The population is ageing and within the next two to three decades in some countries most particularly Germany and Italy nearly half of the population will be over the age of 65. Russia has a unique problem where the young are dying faster than the old and looking at their demographics you'd think Russia is at all out war. The system will collapse before the number of elderly even peaks. It's not going to be pretty and will lead to a population correction. The ponzi and welfare state cannot be sustained under these kind of circumstances. Fertility needs to be raised right now or else there will be catastropic consequences. A massive baby boom across the west is definitely needed. It's not too late yet but the problem isn't being addressed. This depression that they're selling if the banks aren't bailed out is nothing compared to the demographic crisis right at the door step.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:03 | 1825592 web bot
web bot's picture

Well... get your liberal minded friends to stop murdering babies in the womb... and you'll have your population boom. I have nothing against immigrants... but if we stopped killing babies, we'd see a more positive demographic shift and a decline in immigration.

It's a #uckin shame that this crime has been allowed in the name of "rights".

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:10 | 1825611 saiybat
saiybat's picture

All of it is necessary; more immigration, ending of abortion, and a dramatic rise in birth rates. The problem is as we get closer to to this crisis it'll become more obvious and people aren't going to want to have children and immigrants aren't going to want to come to western countries. The deterrents for all of those things will get exponentially worse within the decade. Within two decades there will be a significant population decay across the board in the west.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:00 | 1825669 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

You can have more 'western' kids if you want.

But, if they're as lazy as their 'western' parents seem to be you'll still need immigrants to pick your veggies, and clean out the pig slop.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:36 | 1825855 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

or we can kill every brown person on earth and live happily forever.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 07:58 | 1825992 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture


Ah yes, a society of genocidal maniacs couldn't help but enjoy a happy, sunny, warm & fuzzy future.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 08:05 | 1825997 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Wow, NOT ONE of you agrees? Truth hurts... face reality.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:41 | 1825723 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Will all the anti-abortionists please proceed to the red room without delay

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 14:14 | 1826459 Freebird
Freebird's picture

...& I`ll see you there...

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 03:08 | 1825875 the tower
the tower's picture

People aren't machines. We aren't here to produce working machines that work and consume and produce more working macines. We don't need more people, we need re-distribution of wealth and a balanced and fair use of resources.

The only way forward is to provide a stable and healthy life for all people on the planet. Quality of life. It can be done, we have the technology. 

The only thing in the way is people with an agenda. Greed.

Think of waking up and knowing all is well on Planet Earth. It's not that hard to achieve you know...

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 05:54 | 1825938 Marco
Marco's picture

Exactly, the original article completely misses the point ... free market economic growth is a cause onto itself for them, the only cause they recognize, if the paradigm their world view is build around collapses then the whole world has to collapse because well ... there is no alternative.

In truth shifting demographics are entirely fucking irrelevant if managed well, productivity increases from automation outpace demographic shifts so much that to even contemplate human resource limits as relevant is batshit fucking insane. We don't need muscle power to maintain our standard of living ... now oil, that is a problem.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 12:53 | 1826319 saiybat
saiybat's picture

"People aren't machines. We aren't here to produce working machines that work and consume and produce more working macines."

People aren't machines but they are seen as such in any money system. Believe it or not you are an asset to the state so long as the state exists. The type of utopia that you describe people would be more akin to cattle than machine. With heavy central government you always end up with a bureaucrat class that is at the top and enjoys much more resources and priveleges than the average person. Bureaucrats are always parasitic and you don't want these people ruling over you. Redistribution of wealth and balanced and fair use of resources can only be achieved by a strong central government. The only way you'll get your utopia is by people coming together on a voluntary basis and sharing the fruits of their labors otherwise what you'll get is a dystopia.

Nothing is stopping you from creating your utopia. Find a bunch of like minded people, pool your money together, buy land via concurrent estate (you all own it) and maybe even form a LLP or cooperative and corporate aggregate. The possibilities are endless and there's nothing wrong with it. Nobody is forced into anything and you all live happily ever after.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 19:23 | 1826964 Fozzy Slippers
Fozzy Slippers's picture

Yes the West needs more anchore babies, Moozlum radicals, Hip Hop thugs and Chavs.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:31 | 1825633 malek
malek's picture

Mostly correct.
However a new baby boom would lead to a turnaround in those countries 30 YEARS FROM NOW...

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:05 | 1825601 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Canada to stay AAA? S&P are smoking good weed. What happens when America implodes? Ah yes, half of Canada's GDP is exports to the US...

Not to mention, all big banks in Canada are a joke and will blow up once Europe and America blow up.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 06:25 | 1825948 Marco
Marco's picture

Canada is relatively close to trade balance, they can afford to shift from export to domestic consumption as the system implodes around them while servicing their debt (and unlike say China are likely to do it too, with China's diet being taken over by billionaires who will fight wage inflation tooth and nail a successful transition seems impossible for them). Deficits in trade balance or surplus countries are far less relevant than in trade deficit countries ... they are just a surreptitious form of taxation for them, the trade deficit countries are living on borrowed time/money however.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:05 | 1825604 sabra1
sabra1's picture

Canada better prepare to receive lots and lots of immigrants:

seems that canadian real estate prices will forever increase!

nothing a one world government, and one world bank can't fix!

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:25 | 1825696 FinalCollapse
FinalCollapse's picture

They (Canadian RE) are already tanking - in some places very hard. You can check


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:13 | 1825840 Bumblebee Tuna
Bumblebee Tuna's picture

If the clusterf**k we call economics has taught me anything over the years, it is to expect the exact opposite to happen of what is generally expected.

Therefor, it's completely possible that Canada could be one of the next crisis zones, simply because it's one of the least expected.

One can only imagine the excess billions in flakey mortgages waiting to collapse in the bloated Vancouver RE market.  That alone could pull the country's banks into the abyss.

Food for thought, anyway.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 06:28 | 1825951 Marco
Marco's picture

Unless it results in bail outs going abroad like in Ireland (forced into slave labour for foreigners by their government) I don't see how collapsing banks will affect them all that much.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:12 | 1825613 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Who cares? 

Why spoil a perfectly good saturday night worrying about the machinations of some perverted rich fucks? 

If you haven't made plans and implemented them by now, you are sooooo late to the party. Fuck the New World Order, the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and all the rest. You are only screwed if you bought into their propaganda about what is life and success. There are stars in the sky that shine whether Kissinger says so or not. The oceans pound the shore like a sailor on leave in Bangkok, no matter what obama says. Jaime Dimon is still a bastard demon. 

On the other hand, a good bottle of wine and a fine meal can be had for fiat trash. Life is good. They still have silver on sale and gold is freely available without a VAT tax- poor europeans. A woman fills your arms and your dreams for the price of a commitment you'd make any day of the week. 

The world spins and the reptoids haven't made us into slaves- yet, but if you find yourself late for the resurrection party, you might have dodged a bullet. That's one harvest I plan to be chaff.

These dickheads can screw up the entire world, but if you save a slice of heaven in the country, far from the greedy fingers of the Hampton's finest, you can watch the majestic bald eagle patrol the skies, the skitterish deer (it is hunting season), the pale grass in a field, the sky blue or grey, threatening rain or touched with the warmth of the sun and know- there is a life that exists beyond the one they keep telling us is the most important thing on earth

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:43 | 1825644 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

A welcome and refreshing reminder... thank you.  I almost forgot to remember why I left D.C. for the mountains.

Don't get me wrong though... if I ever get a greasy WS banker's forehead in my crosshairs, I'm sending a 7mm through his dome.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:07 | 1825677 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Good thoughts, Sean, but there are lots of people in miserable, seemingly hopeless situations.

There is a lot of pain and turmoil.

>Who cares?

As much as I love majestic bald eagles and pale grass in a field...

I do, for one.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 09:22 | 1826050 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Of course there are. They have always been amongst us and instead of considering why- we gaze into our collective navel and bemoan the actions of a few bankers?

Unfortunately, the only answer for the miserable and hopeless is a combination of cloning a race of more productive and engaging people, coupled with the total overthrow of all governments. A return to laissez faire and anarcho capitalism that allows those that will to give expression to their greed will have an equal opportunity, as well as the opportunity to fail and live a life that demands less and provides little comfort except the charity of family and neighbors.

To obsess on the impossible, day after day, without any form of concerted action against the fascism that is the soul of the modern political entity, is a waste of a good saturday night. Which was my point. 

Fate can deal cruelty and largess in measures beyong understanding. However, life provides us with the opportunity (if we take it) to be agents for change- whether passive or aggressive. Bemoaning the poor on a late night blog is pretty damn passive- almost zombie like in its' passion. 

No matter how loud we wail or how many tears fall from the small children, hungry and alone or abused and imprisoned by the ignorance of their parents, there will always be plaintative bleets from those that demand justice, but will do nothing to create the conditions where it can blossom and give liberty. Save your moralizing for the herd. I am not impressed.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 20:34 | 1827055 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Sean, I've read your words -- you take "moralizing" to the bank.

It sounds you like have a hard time when someone challenges you, even in benign ways.

(and I certainly don't care about impressing you.)


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 02:35 | 1825854 prains
prains's picture

At 7 billion and counting that slice of heaven in the country makes you sound a bit like a 1 %er. the red dot on your greasy forehead may not be for marriage.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 06:31 | 1825954 Marco
Marco's picture

Who cares? Anyone with empathy?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:22 | 1825622 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

The only good thing out of this mess is that many (perhaps even a majority) are FINALLY waking up to the economic scams of the last two decades, caused by connected bankers that own D.C......everything from the dot-com bubble, RE bubble, deliberate lies about inflation, front and back door banker bailouts, rotating Goldman Sachs members thru the halls of justice and government (with predictable results).  I thought it would take another 5-10 years before shit got so bad that folks would be putting down the remote and take notice......glad to see I was wrong.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:29 | 1825630 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

But I heard technological singularity would occur sooner than 2030 making cashflows irrelevant.

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:04 | 1825670 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Funny you say that......

At the begin of industrialization, someone probably said something similiar.

He may even have been right in theory.

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:38 | 1825638 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

The "solution" is quite easy in that debt must be able to organically increase and decrease as a ratio of the "market" value.

Take your underwater house.  What mechanism would allow the banks to maintain their lien, but also prevent macro LTV inversion?  Easy, just mark the debt to market.  Big upside the banks profit as a ratio of the gain.  Take a dump.  Presto.  Pay the ratio back to the bank.

The constant requirement for inflation (interest) is what is doing everyone in.

Commercial banks write real world credit with real human clients pursuing real economic activity.

Funny how Glass-Steagall isn't on the table after ALL THESE YEARS! 

Its because this is all designed to fail.

Smoke'em if you got'em.


Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:44 | 1825645 arkady
arkady's picture

Without delving into the details, how in the world is Spain priojected to have a better credit rating than France/US by 2030?

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:54 | 1825657 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Three words:


  1. 'Lace'
  2. 'Ass'
  3. 'Youth'
Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:44 | 1825646 AssFire
AssFire's picture

It's all Greek to me...except for turning fiat into gold and silver. It is my new hobby.


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:11 | 1825658 Rynak
Rynak's picture


Once upon a time, there were 100 employees, 10 middleclass company owners, 2 megacorp CEOs, a gov president and a central banker.

Our little community just discovered industrialization. This way, the same output could now be produced in shorter time and with less work.

Unfortunatelly, this means that the 10 middleclass compaies and the 2 megacorps now only need 90 people employed, if everyone would continue to receive the same wage and thus have to work the same amount of hours.

From a holistic POV, the solution would obviously have been, that wages rise, and people work less hours - thus distributing the available workhours to the employees.

But since everyone was only thinking about himself, and because such an idea seems counterintuitive (after all, the companies and megacorps expect LOWER expenses thanks to modernization)... what happened instead was something different.

People continued to work at the same wages and hours, and the unemployed were simply given money for free. That money at first was taken from all employees, companies and megacorps, via taxes.

From a pure macroeconomic POV, what this means is that those who hoard the capital needed for the 10 unemployed, are forced to redistribute it to them. So actually, even though they refused the "unintuitive" solution described earlier, because of greed, in the end they didn't gain anything. The amount they now earn too much, is taken away from them via taxes, so that the system overally is in balance again.

So everything is wonderful and great? Unfortunatelly, no. There is a very simple difference, between the earlier "unintuitive but clean fix", and the entitlement hack via taxes: In the former, everyone works for his income. In the later instead, 10 people do not work, yet receive income. Even though it's not really their fault, that others refuse them work, because of shortsighted egocentrism... this creates social conflicts, because people react to this with envy.

And this is where the rabid hole begins. From here onwards, it will only get more and more perverted.

What happens next, is that fueled by the envy, as well as the desparation of those not employed, that a "free job market" begins to stop existing. Employers and employees increasingly no longer hold equal power when making contracts.

However, since for now tax income still is sufficient for this hack, at first it appears to work just fine, besides of some minor class-conflicts.

Enter pandoras box: A second community enters the playfield. Both communities took the same "hack"-solution, and thus have a deficit of jobs. The megacorps quickly take advantage of it, by making the countries compete for where they build factories and thus provide jobs.

Our community begins a price war on the other community. It plans to reduce taxes for megacorps, and actually pay them to produce in our community. Furthermore, it plans to make modifications to the conditions under which unemployed receive entitlements, so that the workforce is more desperate for jobs, and thus accepts lower wages.

But then the president notices, that his gov actually doesn't have enough money for that. He not only is discounting the country to zero, but actually would run a deficit.

No problem says Mr. Banker. He pulls a bundle of cash out of his ass, and says: Here have a loan, once your community "won" and makes lots of cash, you can then pay me back plus interest.

The president happily agrees. And so the plan goes into action. Soon, the other country see's its megacorps move to our country instead. Now, that other community only has jobs for 60 people left.

The president of that other community - already suffering from unpopularity because he just enacted some not so nice policies, doesn't know how to pay all those unemployed.

No problem says Mr. Banker, and pulls another bundle of cash out of his ass: Here, have a loan.

Meanwhile, in our community, something weird is happening. The number of unemployed has actually risen to 20, even though we now have 4 megacorps employing people, and even though each of them now is employing more people than before. Coincidentally, 5 of the small company owners, have transformed into unemployed WTF?

No problem says Mr. Banker, and pulls a bundle of cash out of his ass: Here, have another loan.

The president decides, that obviously his people must be lazy, because this makes no sense at all. Furthermore, the 4 megacorp owners tell the president that they have just heard of some 3rd community, where they may get an even better deal.

So, entitlements get cut down to down and conditions for receiving them are made even more strict. Also, taxes for the megacorps get lowered further, while those for employees and small companies get raised a bit.

Meanwhile, the other community is running through money like nothing. Local industry has rapidly gone down, and the small company owners have mostly switched to retail and service businesses, because they cannot compete with the goods from our community. By now, 30 people are unemployed, and social discomfort fueled by class warfare is reaching dangerous levels.

No problem says Mr. Banker and pulls a bundle of cash out of his ass. Here have a really big loan - however, because of your current situation i of course will have to ask for higher interest rates. can guess the rest from here...

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:11 | 1825681 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture


finally my daily laugh com`meth,... twas late, but just at that yawning moment called, sleepy-time - hope to hear from ya soon 

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 03:15 | 1825879 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Alice's Wonderland was a lunatic asylum.

Take care :-)

Sun, 10/30/2011 - 13:27 | 1826387 FinHits
FinHits's picture

Lovely story, Rynak. Keep pulling them out of your ass, sir!

Sat, 10/29/2011 - 23:58 | 1825665 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I wrote up a little list of things that would start to dent the corruption in NYC-DC.  Ask yourself, how likely is this stuff to happen?  Place your bets accordingly.

(I did it in fauxccupy groove rant style, of course it really was 0400 when I wrote it down)




              1. Timothy Geithner to be removed as Secretary immediately

              2. All New York City offices of the Department will be closed for at least 3 years

              3. Salaries will be reduced and capped at $150,000/year, adjusted for official inflation

              4. Staffing count to be reduced to 1980 levels

              5. Market manipulation/intervention to be prohibited for at least five years

              7. Financial asset purchases prohibited for at least five years


Sun, 10/30/2011 - 00:17 | 1825688 prophet
prophet's picture

mid-life crisis?

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