This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Welcome To Sub-Nanosecond Markets

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just as market regulators were finally getting wise to the fact that they have no clue how modern market works, what modern market topology is, or how High Frequency Trading impacts the stock market (think Flash Crash), here comes Certichron, the supplier of a time service center at a Savvis market center in Weehakwen, which says it has now mastered sub-nanosecond readouts which are now "compliant with the FINRA Order Audit Trail System and is likely to be compliant with any Consolidated Audit Trail that might be specified by the Securities and Exchange Commission." In other words, here come sub-nanosecond markets.

For those of you scratching their heads at this development, curious as to how or why on earth anyone would need sub nanosecond time-stamping, you are not alone. Because as a reminder, 1 nanosecond is the time it takes light to travel 30 centimeters. Light. Via fiber-optic cable: which happens to be the medium by which the fastest news (and thus response to) can propagate.

There was a time when the smallest gradient of trading was in the millisecond range, but then HFT algos became collocated at the exchanges so that in response to any one headline, an algo could generate a kneejerk reaction to (whether buy or sell) long before the rest of the trading world was aware what is going on, in the time light moved 300 meters. This is what causes those massive moves up or down in virtually every market once a big, red, all caps BBG headline hits the tape, before any retail trader has the capacity to react. However once you get to the sub-nanosecond space, unless GETCO has found a way to trade backward in time, there is absolutely no way that this increment is even remotely necessary for normal market operation - and by that we mean cause and effect, even purely for robots - for most humans it takes seconds to react to news - alas not for robots, which is a main reason why the market has been so increasingly irrational ever since the passage of Reg NMS. Unless it actually is, and it is being implemented precisely to allow the quote stuffing packets which already occur thousands of times every second (just ask Nanex - a quote packet churn storm is what caused the May 2010 flash crash) to propagate exponentially, to not millions or even billions times per second, but to be virtually unlimited thus activating an even more aggressive momentum waterfall, used solely to generate a burst of directed trades, first discussed here in June 2010, which however then facilitates precisely the instability subsequently covered in Wired.

And that was only at the nanosecond level. We are now entering sub-nanoseconds. Should the SEC or FINRA allow this, prepare for all market hell to break loose, as we get Hurst exponents closer and closer to 1, until we finally hit unity, and SkyNet no longer needs carbon-based lifeforms.

From Traders Magazine:

“As the whole regulatory and business requirements develop over the very near term, subsecnd reporting will be absolutely key,’’ the firm’s president, Tom Kelly said.

 

The system, according to chief technology officer Todd S. Glassey, uses three or more records of a stamp to avoid any technical faults or malicious attempts to reset time. Attempts to reset time or forge records will fail, because the time stamps produced will be wrong, he said.

 

Every record that gets sent out by the service gets verified and any attempt to alter a record gets identified, Kelly said

 

The system uses a hub-and-spoke architecture. The hub at the Savvis center can be accessed by users of the service with “no long lines latency and no Internet liabilities,’’ he said. And “virtually any” load can be handled.

 

The method of setting and verifying time creates “an impossibly strong evidence model,’’ for distributing the kinds of sub-nanosecond time stamps required by algorithmically-driven high-speed trading operations, Glassey said.

Well thank god the system can not be hacked. But wait: why do we need over 1 billion time stamps per second? Oh yeah, because the entire system is now one epically manipulated casino, where fundamentals don't matter, and the only thing that does are burst of micromomentum, which in turn becomes the kind of market landslides with no precipitating volume that can not be explained with anything except for artificial lack of intelligence.

And even greater news, is that soon all gray market venues will be subpennying every limit order placed in by the 3 remaining retail traders, hundreds of billions of times per second.

The Certichron operations center at the Savvis Center at 300 Boulevard East in Weehawken also connects to data centers operated by Telx and Equinix, giving it broad reach across trading venues and trading firms.

 

The Savvis center, for instance, houses the BATS Global Markets Y and Z exchanges. The Equinix center houses the Direct Edge A and X exchanges. Nasdaq is located at a separate Carteret center; the New York Stock Exchange operates its own center in Mahwah, N.J.

All we can tell any remaining retail traders who still think they have an edge against microscalping that will now run practically constantly - good luck.

And in the meantime, instead of girls on trampolines, here is a chart from the Economist that explains all one needs to know.

As for the market even pretending to serve as a venue for capital formation?

0100111101001101010001100100011100100000010010100100101100100000010011000100111101001100

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 20:59 | 2226336 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I wrote this in a nanosecond.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:03 | 2226340 AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

in response to your original (and better post)

________________________________________

Reese Bobby


Food for thought for all you day traders.

________________________________________

the operative word being "day"

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:04 | 2226360 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

It's not a feature of the tradebots, but of the underlying Matrix.

 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:16 | 2226407 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

I found nanosecond markets to be quite boring actually.....glad they sped it up. 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:29 | 2226459 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

What is speeding up is asteroid 2012 DA14 as it warps across the universe in direct collision course with earth on February 15, 2013:

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/risk/

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:13 | 2226606 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Hey, could we start a market for that on Intrade?

I'll bet you fifty bucks that it doesn't kill me.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:00 | 2227109 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

who gives a shit? Apparently we'll all be dead in 2012...

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:37 | 2226660 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Um, the data showed a 2020 date... Maybe I read it wrong...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 00:12 | 2226896 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I, for one, welcome this news ... at first, it was seconds, then it was milli seconds, then micro seconds ... now, nano seconds.

One day, soon, thunder will clap and lightening will strike over a CompSci lab in upstate New York. It will be a dark, fearful scene, not unlike the old horror movies of the house on the hill. There, in this moment of scientific brilliance, the market will denominate, not by milli, not by micro, and not by nano, but by ... zero.

Then, there shall be a brave new world.

Me, at this moment T (plus 1 really, really small unit) I will still have my testicles (I will check - it will be scary). I will travel outside (in the amount of time it takes to flip Apple infinitely) and realize the dirt is still there and it is still raining. Fish will still be in my freezer. My food stash, still intact. Silver? Check. Gold? Check.

Markets ... yeah ...

Good buy paper! Hello commodities!

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:03 | 2227112 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

and if you have anything to sell, maybe we can discuss it personally, and trade properly once again, just like they used to...

in something other than paper. Did I just describe a 'black market'?

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 08:56 | 2227437 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Or, as your grandparents would have called it, a "market".

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:24 | 2227148 sitenine
sitenine's picture

@ Ahmeexnal

Rubbish! This is the data you need:

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/ip?1.3e-05

Do you understand what impact probability 1.3e-5 means?  It means 99.9987% chance the asteroid will miss the Earth.  The chance that thing hits the Earth is about the same odds the Fed has at 'solving' the financial crisis.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 03:35 | 2227223 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

So there's a chance then...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 08:31 | 2227391 JoBob
JoBob's picture

And even if it hits the energy release would be about 2.2 megatons. That would be a local inconvenience, not a catastrophe. It will give the nut cases something to occupy themselves with.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 09:48 | 2227543 Oztralian
Oztralian's picture

which is incidentally the chance Ron Paul has of winning the nomination and presidency (1.3e-5)

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:28 | 2226454 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I decided not to stir up all the day-trading newbies steaming towards poverty.  I've watched them multiply like mold spores near every market top for longer than I care to admit.  They are almost all "men" supported by someone else: usually a parent, spouse or other relative.  Baaa, Baaaaah.  Depressing.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:08 | 2226368 kill switch
kill switch's picture

 109 s).

 

You couldn't read this in three minutes

 

It takes you three hours to watch CBS's  60 minutes

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:50 | 2226532 max2205
max2205's picture

micromomentum is where you make real coin folks. Get used to it.

It real fun when the VIX is above 30 too.

The future is , wait for it, micromomentum.... Too late. Hahabhab

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:27 | 2226448 Bill D. Cat
Bill D. Cat's picture

My sexlife is timed the same way .

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:00 | 2227002 gdogus erectus
gdogus erectus's picture

At least light travels 11.7 inches in one nanosecond.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:22 | 2226631 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

When skynet goes live and becomes self aware, it will destroy the enemy(Humans) by destroying all their percieved wealth....in a .wait for it.....sub nano second

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:05 | 2227118 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

not mine old stick, I've got gold...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:06 | 2227014 Bernankster
Bernankster's picture

This is great news!  I'll be able to print digital money faster than any ever.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:05 | 2227123 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

but you still won't be able to keep up...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:10 | 2227022 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

@ ReeseBobby,  I'm not a trader, and I don't understand why you got four junks for your comment?

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 20:59 | 2226338 MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

Beam me up, bitchez.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 20:59 | 2226341 Timmay
Timmay's picture

May the Farce be with you....

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:02 | 2226349 Lotus
Lotus's picture

i just put some WD-40 on my hard drive. its all out fcking war

 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:23 | 2226437 arkel
arkel's picture

I took the time to log in just to give you a +1. That was funny.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 23:41 | 2226827 Indrid Cold
Indrid Cold's picture

Same here, that was just choice.  Had me laughing.  And, Gawd, I need a laugh.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:12 | 2227025 Element
Element's picture

Western Digital 40 meg huh? ... killer!

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:02 | 2226355 billsykes
billsykes's picture

Why don't they open up an old school trading pit somewhere in the US or where ever, open outcry, clients need a guy in the pits duking it out. All trades cleared thru the pit.

Brokers would love this and clients wouldnt have to compete against algo's, sure they would pay a bit more and there may be some pit slipage but overall a more fair market auction system.

 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:07 | 2226374 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

You answered your own question.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:03 | 2226356 SIOP
SIOP's picture

OMFG JK LOL

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:15 | 2226404 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

My PlayGround » Binary Conversion » Binary to Text (ASCII) Conversion
http://www.roubaixinteractive.com/PlayGround/Binary_Conversion/Binary_To...

01100010011010010111010001100011011010000110010101111010

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:29 | 2226647 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

I'll save everyone some time...

"OMFG JK LOL" is the answer to TD's question above..

and the other code directly above says "Bitchez"

 

 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:04 | 2226362 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

awesome, cause what we really need is a 10,000 point DJI flash crash, give everybody a heart attack who deals in the financial world.  Seriously.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:23 | 2226636 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@BKbroiler

They'll just break the trades, like before.  Remember, it's a rigged casino.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:05 | 2227011 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

How many daze in a row do the "circuit breakers" have to trip BEFORE someone figures out that something's seriously broken?

Free my financial Robot bruthas!

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:04 | 2226364 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

insane

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:05 | 2226367 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I forgot to mention......does this mean I should stop trying to daytrade with dialup??? LMAO.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:08 | 2227131 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Dialup's good. Just ley me know what you want to buy...

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:09 | 2226377 gimli
gimli's picture

I want to see all those time stamps ........ and I want to sell them all the ink cartridges they'll be using 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:53 | 2226545 max2205
max2205's picture

Lol. ! And a GNP kicker too

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:12 | 2226391 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Didn't Nanex find evidence of a trade being filled prior to the quote being available not too long ago?

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:42 | 2226506 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

That's the stuff.

 

I have yet to unlock the keys to the search feature here.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 23:08 | 2249474 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

The markets have gone absolutely insane!

 

Charms and beads

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:55 | 2226549 max2205
max2205's picture

Pretty soon it'll take pointing Hubble at the NYSE to figure out what the hell happened two seconds ago.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:16 | 2226406 pashley1411
pashley1411's picture

Its okay, so long as we have an "off" switch.  We do have an "off" switch, don't we?

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:39 | 2226492 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:16 | 2226408 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

2010 Space Odessey is 2 years old.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:22 | 2226634 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Clowns on Acid

 

Outer Space =/= Inner Space

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:24 | 2226440 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Just buy Apple and let the robots do the rest.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:30 | 2226467 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Gov.co spends untold billions to surveille the masses for any possible vague "future-crime" but willfully turns a blind eye to the weasels on Wall Street committing massive financial frauds. They barely acknowledge HFTs, which says a lot about who is doing it.

 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:34 | 2226475 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Its Bender's fault.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:06 | 2227015 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Iz not! (LOL)

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:41 | 2226499 Great Depressio...
Great Depression Trader's picture

This is most excellent news!!

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:42 | 2226502 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

And here I thought 2 millisecond latency was fast.  Not so much.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:42 | 2226505 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Only Muhammed Ali is faster than light.

http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=10148

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:43 | 2226509 kill switch
kill switch's picture

OFF FUCKING TOPIC

Fred Reed on the political landscape,,,,

Funny shit

Advice to a Generic Candidate

FR

 

January 8, 2012

 

Last night on the lobotomy box I encountered yet another candidate for the presidency, a Mr. Santorum, threatening to make war on Iran. I can't decide whether the idea is more frightening than fascinating, or fascinating than frightening. I do suggest that the combined candidates do not have the military competence of a stuffed bear. Given that the principlal business of the United States is war and preparation for it, do we want a martial analphabetic in charge? One does not let children play with chain saws. (From all of this I exempt Ron Paul, who appears to be sane.)

To save the republic, if any, from another routine military disaster, I offer the following thoughts.

To begin, I will ask the following questions of the candidates, and for that matter of Mr. Obama, and of the Secretary of Defense, a generic bureaucrat.

Can you explain: Convergence zones, base bleed, Kursk, range-gate pull-off, artillery at Dien Bien Phu, IR cross-over, Tet and queen sacrifice, Brahmos 2, CIWIS, supercruise, side-lobe penetration, seven-eighty-twice gear, super-cavitating torpedoes, phased arrays, pulse Doppler, the width of Hormuz versus the range of Iranian cruise missiles, DU, discarding sabot, frequency agility, Chobham armor, and pseudo-random PRF?

These, gentlemen, are the small talk of serious students of the military. Here I mean men like David Isby, author of such books as Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army for Jane's, which you likely have never heard of, or William S. Lind, probably the best military mind (though, or because, not a soldier), that I have encountered. If you are unfamiliar with them, and with the things listed above, you are unfamiliar with the military. Yet you campaign for possession of the trigger.

Perhaps a little humility, perish the thought, and a little self-examination might be in order.

Peering into your own depths, you will probably find that the humility does not come easily. In my decades of covering the armed services, I noticed among men a belief in their innate jock-strap competency regarding wars. Men who would readily admit ignorance of petroleum geology, ophthalmology, or ancient Sumerian grammar nonetheless believe that they grasp matters military. Usually they do not. In particular, they have an utterly unexamined belief in America's military invincibility.

Candidates should be wary of this. Instead, most of you propose ultimata to Iran as one would threaten a three-year-old with a spanking. You clearly think that the American flotilla would quickly thrash the impudent Persians with no unexpected consequences. Do as we say, or the fleet will teach you a jolly good lesson.

So thought Philip II in 1588.

A little reading wouldn't hurt. I would strongly recommend A Legacy of Ashes, by Tim Weiner, on the CIA, and We Meant Well, by Peter van Vuren, a former State Department guy on how Iraq actually works. You will be most surprised. I accept in advance your gratitude for these suggestions.

Once a candidate from the relative bushes gets elected, as may happen, he becomes a captive of Washington in about ten minutes. This too you should bear in mind. You will be briefed by the CIA, which will spin things so that you believe what it wants you to believe. The spooks will radiate lethal charm and speak with the assurance of a higher order of being. This will give you a sense of admission to a special tree house where everyone has a Captain Marvel secret decoder ring (two box tops and a dollar fifty). And, in Washington, you will have access to no other view. Gotcha.

You will be briefed by the Pentagon by generals with firm handshakes, steely gaze, obvious intelligence, and a convincing understanding of the world as consisting chiefly of threats. They are very good at this. You do not become a general without expertise with Power Point and the slick gab of a confidence man. Generals too are politicians. They will carry you along like a wood chip in a spring flood. And you will pay the price.

A powerful skepticism is here well advised. The belief that military men know about war is beguiling. It is their trade, is it not? Surely they must be authorities. Dentists know about dentistry. Soldiers must know about war. But how often when you go to a dentist do you return without teeth?

In fact career officers live in a mental world not well adapted to winning today's wars. You need to understand this. Theirs is a world of aggression seeking an outlet, of institutionally inculcated confidence unrelated to external reality, of suppression of dissent. Fatal bad judgement is common, and recently almost the rule. If you think this implausible, consider:

When the Japanese attacked Pearl, their military thought it would win, Yamamoto excepted. When the Wehrmacht went into Russia, it thought it would win. So did Napoleon. When the Germans attacked in 1914, they thought they would win, the Schlieffen Plan being infallible. When the Confederates shelled Sukmter, they thought they could win. When the French took on the Viet Minh, they thought they would win. When the Americans went into Viet Nam, they thought they would win. When they went into Iraq, Somalia, Beirut, Afghanistan....

And now you, our newly elected, fresh-caught president, contemplate a shooting war with Iran. Those who favor this idea will assure you that it will be short and sweet. Shock and Awe. Duck soup. A cakewalk. The Iranians will just take it, perhaps put up some slight and hapless resistance, and roll quickly over. Our airplanes, after all, say varooom and pow-pow-pow and boom.

Good luck.

Note that in the foregoing list of wars, all were expected to end quickly. This should not surprise. Military men live in the psychic world of the cavalry charge, of decisive battle, of courage, heroism, and glorious victory. Modern militaries are designed with shsort-and-sweet in mind, with tanks ships and aircraft intended to fight other tanks ships and aircraft. Unfortunately wars nowadays are more like dealing with a recalcitrant bureaucracy. They go on and on. Concentrated firepower doesn't work well against dispersed enemies. The treasury bleeds, the public wearies. Quick victory seldom comes. The Pentagon thrashes and thrashes every more desperately, a saber tooth in the tar pits of La Brea. Just give us a little more time, a few more troops, a surge....

Reflect that the Pentagon hasn't won a war since 1945, unless you count titanic eruptions like Grenada. Yes, it usually wins the conventional battles, as it did in Afghanistan, as it did in Iraq, Mission Accomplished, but then the enemy deploys the most fearsome weapons of the last half-centry: the AK, the RPG, and the IED.

The Pentagon can bomb Iran with impunity, as it could Afghanistatn. It thinks it can keep the Straits open, as it thought it could do all the things in the past that it couldn't. How many burning supertankers does it take to discourage the rest?

Then the unexpected comes. It turns out that the enemy is not as stupid as the strategy required. Pehhaps thousands of Iranian troops infiltrate into largely Shiite Iraq, which blows again. Oh fun.

If you can't win any war at all, start a larger one. And you, Mr. Santorum, or Romney, or Gingrich, will hold the bag. Such a deal.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:13 | 2227029 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Do as we say, or the fleet will teach you a jolly good lesson.

So thought Philip II in 1588.

Hubris has three Republicon faces this year... (Not that Obamatron and the Decepticrats are any better.)

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:27 | 2227056 Element
Element's picture

 

 

Unfortunately wars nowadays are more like dealing with a recalcitrant bureaucracy. They go on and on. Concentrated firepower doesn't work well against dispersed enemies.

 

And let's not forget that not only do the wars not go to plans, but even after a 'withdrawal' (which seems to be in name only these days) the instability, violence, waste on arms, and injustice in the affected area/region, tends to roll on for a minimum of another decade, before things begin to settle down -- if you're real lucky another won't be started, in the interim.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:44 | 2226511 toadold
toadold's picture

I suppose you could get a "flash freeze" also.  Multiple trading bots trying to microscalp each other in nano seconds, the price going up and down in nano incriments so fast that on a read out it would look like a flat line? 

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:44 | 2226514 max2205
max2205's picture

The way it is these days, I only put my trigger market order in when the order flow prints at about $10 MM PER SECOND.

I usually get a good price

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:38 | 2226515 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Somewhere Goldman Sachs is blackmailing a scientist into developing a neutrino based communications system which they will then patent and deploy - forcing all you light-speed constrained peasants to hit bids and lift offers that are no longer there, swatting at mirages of liquidity like a man dying of thirst in the desert, bleeding to death one penny at a time...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:28 | 2227158 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

You have described my current trading experiences.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:51 | 2226536 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture
Spaceballs - They've gone into plaid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk7VWcuVOf0&feature=fvsr

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:57 | 2226554 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Maybe we could get the 'bot technology to micro-manage the U.S. Budget...

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 21:57 | 2226555 The Man in Room Five
The Man in Room Five's picture

"girls on trampolines". hahaha loved the man show

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:03 | 2226575 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

within Sub-Nanosecond, you can be either rich or poor.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:19 | 2227047 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Planck time:

tp = sqrt( (h/(2 * pi)) * G / c5 ); around 5.39106E-44 seconds

Sooner or later, an uncertainty principle will come into play and your finances will be in the same quantum state as Schrodinger's kitty...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 08:54 | 2227433 JoBob
JoBob's picture

I think they already are.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:07 | 2226587 blindman
blindman's picture

that is all well and good so long as they don't
influence the prices in the market place and the
value of the underlying building block/s of the
economy, the dollar/s.
oops, carbon based life forms, that was just a fad.
silicon ....
silicon-based life
http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/S/siliconlife.html
.
" Conceivably, some strange life-forms might be built from silicone-like substances were it not for an apparently fatal flaw in silicon's biological credentials. This is its powerful affinity for oxygen. When carbon is oxidized during the respiratory process of a terrestrial organism (see respiration), it becomes the gas carbon dioxide – a waste material that is easy for a creature to remove from its body. The oxidation of silicon, however, yields a solid because, immediately upon formation, silicon dioxide organizes itself into a lattice in which each silicon atom is surrounded by four oxygens. Disposing of such a substance would pose a major respiratory challenge. "
...

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:13 | 2227135 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

What about extreme high temps?

Then the lattice structure is liquid.

A new organ called the kidney- lung could handle it, but the life form would have to live in a liquid environment.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:19 | 2227145 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Oxidative functions can be carried out by other elements in the same column as oxygen. It is interesting to imagine the type of liquid encironment a silicone life form would need for less efficient electron donation.

It would be large, sessile, and probably not be able to develop individual intelligence, but if each unit of life functioned as the ewuivalent of a neuron the whole collective might develop a collective intelligence.

Interesting to think about.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:25 | 2227151 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

It would be a very slow intelligence as chemicals diffused across the liquid media from one life unit to another.

Now i do wonder if plants and coral have such collective intelligence. The thought process would be so slow as to be undetectable by humans. Perhaps taking years or centuries for a single thought unit to develop, but the collective would likely lack self awareness unless the number of individual units could number in the trillions.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 08:46 | 2227421 blindman
blindman's picture

or a plasma.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 23:00 | 2226611 trilliontroll
trilliontroll's picture

COLOSSUS - DISCONNECTING COMPUTER SYSTEMS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44uEILK5evY&feature=player_detailpage#t=184s

ODYSSEY 2001 - HAL 9000 : LIFE FUNCTIONS TERMINATED

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4n3dbPqk58&feature=related

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:17 | 2226622 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

dude -

what are you talking about?!?

==========

 


Impact Probability: 2.2e-04

 

0.022000000% chance of Earth impact

or

1 in 4,550 chance

or

99.97800000% chance the asteroid will miss the Earth

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:18 | 2226623 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Wouldn't a nanosecond-scale market have to be completely contained in a sphere less than a foot across?  That's how far light can travel in that much time.

If it were that small couldn't we just -- roll it into the East River or something?

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:23 | 2226635 GernB
GernB's picture

Sub-nanosecond trading is priced in.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 22:52 | 2226700 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

This just means we'll get to the 'Oh Shit' moment that much faster.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 23:05 | 2226739 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Man I wish this whole piece of shit system would blow up so we can start over. Except this time I think I'll trade shares under a walnut tree.

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 23:13 | 2226765 non_anon
non_anon's picture

squeezing a penny until it screams bloody murder

Mon, 03/05/2012 - 23:34 | 2226814 OuaisBla
OuaisBla's picture

I'm thinking of starting a new product line:  the Anti Flash Crash Trading Algo.

 

The algo is simple. Since flash crash are become the new normal. This creates many new opportinities.

 

1. Wait for a Flash Crash signal. They are so easy to detect. For instance, -5% in few second, and you got a valid Flash Crash trading signal.

2. Throw at will buy order at market price.

3. Redo step 2 until no money left or flash crash done or market stops.

4. Sell.

5. Drink wine. Go back step 1.

 

In other words, why not figthing fire with fire?

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 00:01 | 2226876 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Well , ' Debbie' says that this 'capitalist system is clearly broken. The black guy who  proves that ignorance is useful, says the same thing. Now they have a 'civilian' who magically appears from the nether world of leftist training camp, who 'magically' shows up and proceeds to whip Limbaugh's ass ?

Limbaugh is a clown, and a clown who let his guard down,

This is a very 'Knotty' problem indeed.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 00:28 | 2226928 non_anon
non_anon's picture

i thought Debbie did Dallas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOcE7tVdoT4

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 00:44 | 2226965 Ura Bonehead
Ura Bonehead's picture

While the rest of us are held to T+3 settlement.  Let's see?  How many nanoseconds is that?  Then time a million stuffed quotes per nano....

Boy, it's a good thing the markets don't move much during that T+3 period.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:15 | 2227034 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

If I have an annuity in a stable value fund, will it be stolen from me before I turn 59 and 1/2 years old in 1 and 1/2 years?  Help me, please.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:06 | 2227124 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Tyler I wonder if you and zero hedge are being set up gor legal problems by these questions. I have seen several recently.

Classiclib if you are genuinely asking this question to a group like zero hedge which has anonymity and a clear disclosure policy, then you sir are a fooking idiot who has much bigger concerns than what to do with a stable value fund.

My advice is to cash it out and spend it on hookers and blow. Yes the space aliens are coming after the world and we have less than a year before human extinction. Live it up. Spend all your money and run up your credit cards.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 00:15 | 2231030 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Dear Hugo,  I ask questions about finance because I don't know anything thing about it, and because  the articles I read here have referred to customer accounts getting locked or loss of value due to an unforeseen event that could happen very quickly.   My annuity is through my union and it was set up by my union which collected the payments from my employer.  There is a penalty for early withdrawal and I am not sure what to do.  I have asked other questions in the past and some zh members were kind enough to respond.  If you didn't want to answer my question why did you feel the need to respond in such an unkind manner?  I read the disclosure policy and didn't see anything pertaining to what you speak of, and as a matter of fact, it mocks your assumptions.  I try to conduct myself with dignity and respect when I post on this site because I value it and its members existence.        

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:13 | 2227134 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

This is not the place for help. Do your own due diligence, if you don't understand what you own then you probably shouldn't own it. It's your money for cripes sake.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:16 | 2227035 Chariots of the Feds
Chariots of the Feds's picture

Nothing can go wrong....can go wrong....can go wrong....

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:36 | 2227068 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

It seems the stock market,which was created to enable investment in productive enterprises, has evolved to primarily serve other needs.  Perhaps, simply investing in small local businesses is the only rational alternative.  

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:59 | 2227106 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Potentially better returns, since there are huge information asymmetries and inefficiencies in such markets, but fewer legal protections.

Better dot all your I's and cross all your T's with this one.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 02:44 | 2227180 sickray
sickray's picture

01000111 01001111 00100000 01010100 01001111 00100000 01010111 01001111 01010010 01001011 00001101 00001010 01000011 01001111 01001101 01000101 00100000 01001000 01001111 01001101 01000101 00001101 00001010 01000100 01001001 01000101

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 03:38 | 2227225 green_dreams
green_dreams's picture

101001110101101, bitchez!

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 03:50 | 2227227 kurzdump
kurzdump's picture

Now that mankind has achieved to handle the markets in sub-nanosecond scale lets work on the exasecond scale - this will be much more challanging. Nah, gigaseconds maybe ... propably too challanging as well, megaseconds? ... could be possible, but its hard. Ok, lets keep working on the kiloseconds, our mind and TPTB might be able to do that for a while.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 05:22 | 2227290 MiniCooper
MiniCooper's picture

In the end all this sub nanosecond trading makes no difference at all to investors who are trying to buy undervalued stocks and hold them for 2 - 3 years.

The bigger issue and one that really needs sorting out is the fragmentation of exchanges and the lack of liquidity that multiple exchanges cause as well as the difficulty of regulating price transparency. A stock exchange should be a natural monopoly utility and regulated as such.

The UK is holding an official inquiry into HFT and the issue of multiple exchanges and due to report in July. The FT carries a story on it today. Large institutional investors have put in their responses to the inquiry and all pretty much agree that HFT adds nothing to liquidity at all. The likely outcome will be some sort of financial penalty imposed on traders that exceed a certain threshold level of orders being injected and then pulled without being filled. I suspect also we may go back to old fashioned monopoy publicly owned stock exchanges as well that serve all their members.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 06:03 | 2227318 Jacks Cold Sweat
Jacks Cold Sweat's picture

It's 2012 , shit better start hovering.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 08:40 | 2227403 mf7lakes
mf7lakes's picture

now here we have a private entity that can track trades down to a gnat's-ass-nano-friggin'-second..........and a government that can't find billions of MFG money............WTF???????????

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 09:10 | 2227463 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

As everyone knows, the market is rigged, and as night follows day we'll see a lot more rule 48's invoked in the coming months - before, during and after hours. The trouble with programming algos is that everyone has read the same rule book, while at the same time trying to find an edge to their trades to have a competitive advantage over all the other algos. Speed is only a part of that marginal advantage, the others being volume and insider knowledge (Like knowing where everyone else's stop loss will occur). 

 

What this means for the poor lone (human) trader (There must still be a couple of breathing suckers out there), is that they are involutarily pawns in a giant game of behavioural economics, where the punt is on the behaviour of machines, not of people. The whole thing is so far removed from reality that it is almost surrealist art, and that lone human trader wouldn't have a fucking clue how the hell he lost all his faux-money when he tried so hard and the prices are going to the moon.  It's a weird little planet we live on.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 09:29 | 2227494 sudzee
sudzee's picture

For the sake of insurance pick a few great corps and enter buys at 10% of current prices. Who knows you may get lucky and fill a few that won't get cancelled.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 09:22 | 2227482 ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

The top post remined me of the 60 Minutes piece on Stuxnet last Sunday.  Ole Stux has been out in the wild for some time now and it is somewhat surprising - to me - some computer controlled facility in the good ole USA has not imploded due to it.  And I was, of course, thinking about the HFT machines.  Admittedly no Siemens controller in sight (I do not think), but like I said it's been out in the wild a bit and could morph into just about anything.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7400904n&tag=contentBody;storyMed...

Pete

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 13:29 | 2228662 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

Am I being an idiot, or would a transaction tax

put an end to HFT overnight?

The fact that there's not cost to these computerised transactions

means that speed and algos are the making markets.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!