This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
What Is The Fair Price Of A Postage Stamp?
Now that the USPS is teetering on the verge of bankruptcy every day, there are those who say the post office is simply not charging enough for its services. On the other hand, there are those who say no matter what the USPS charges it would always, being a government institution, immediately drown out any revenue increase with a more than commensurate surge in headcount (i.e., expenses) that offset any increase in postage stamp prices, and drown out any possibility for it to stay cash neutral (being non-profit), forget turning a profit. So at the end of the day the age old question arises: should the USPS merely keep hiking prices, or should it do what the US government should have done long ago and cut overhead across the board. Because as the chart below shows, while the nominal surge in stamp prices is more than obvious, it has managed quite successfully to stay indexed with inflation. In which case the question becomes: what would Americans be willing to pay for a stamp?
»
- 15594 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
I am glad you brought this up.
Quite often, statistics show a reality far different than what one experiences.
For example, I penciled in a 23% increase in inflation in 10 years for postage increases.
In 2001, minimum wage was $5.15, today, it is $7.25, or a 29% increase.
Mathematically, both sets of figures are correct.
However......
DJIA on Dec. 5, 2001 was 10,114.29. Today, it is 12,097.83, or about 16%.
Gasoline in Dec. 2001 was $1.20/Gallon. Today, gasoline is about $3.46, or nearly triple in price.
Looking over my wife's Social Security statements of the last 10 years, she is making LESS than she was then. Back in 2001, she worked at a NON UNION home and commercial window unit manufacturer. In 2003, she went into the medical field as a Nurse's Aid.
Her income has yet to exceed what she made, working in the NON UNION factory. (Note, I am stressing non union for so many people think that every factory in the USA is unionized, and worse, that factory workers are sub humans (Morlocks perhaps?)). That NON UNION factory is also closed now.
Pretty much anyone I talk to, when they look at their earnings from 10 years ago, have not moved an iota.
What the post office needs to do is start charging full rate for commercial junk mail, which comprises the vast amount of mail that they carry.
That junk mail subsidizes your first class postage rates.
if PO subtract their pension obligations, would they still be in financial problem?
WASHINGTON (CNNMoney) -- The U.S. Postal Service on Monday announced a $2.1 billion cost savings proposal that would result in the end of next-day service for regular mail and the loss of about 28,000 postal worker jobs.
I can live with that. and to those postal workers that R out of work......... welcome to the machine.
Postage stamps were 5 cents in the mid-60's and inflation has decreased purchasing power by about 10X since then. So I would think that 50 cents would be about right (assuming no productivity improvements in 45 years which is probably right considering that the USG is involved).
It might help if they would charge more for delivering junk mail. That is the bulk of what I get these days, and I think that mailing it is practically free.
If a company wants to mail a letter it should be charged the same amount as anyone else. So there shouldnt be bulk discounts imo.
It should be run like any private company where balancing the books is a must.
Now please show that graph with ShadowStats inflation... and it will become obvious why USPS is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
well considering what it would cost to drive your self to the next state and deliver the package in person.
the post office does a nice service . considered with other prospectives .
sure
fed x and the big brown could do it .. but 50Cents for a letter doubt it /
very good value in my opinion.
they need to sell some assets , downsize some , cut the overhead , dead wood.
but their bylaws or whatever charges them with deliverying stuff to po-dunk center , you think fed ex would do this with a 45cent stamp
use the internet to pay bills . just pay the internet fee .. aint free. many pay large
best to go back to smoke signals .
or morris code ... .. ... ....
never had a real problem with the post office . probably most never have had a problem just taking a big sludge hammer to a knat . sounds buff to attack the post office
the problem is the political jackasses . using it as a club .
yet the people stand by and elect the same clown years after years.
bush how many voted for him now wish they hadnot .
obamma a crying towel moment. now after the fact the votes counted in obammers favor are hidding in the bushes of idiots
what are many willing to have the garbage picked up .for in price .
the sewer bill is that A problem . Water delivered to tap. scream as the city sells this to the private sector .
set on the ass and have TV delivered for 100-150 bucks a month nobody wimpers just keep the games coming .
As usual, you nailed it, dumpster.
the cost to send a letter across the country, should not be the same, as the cost to send a letter across the city.
Yeah, like the rates aren't complicated enough. That was done years ago when the postage stamp was first used in the United States (see Scott U. S. Specialized Catalog #1 and #2). It worked when mail went by coach or rider. It would be too unwieldy today to do that. Try sending a package today by Standard Mail (Parcel Post) and figger out the zones. Good luck to ya.
Perfect proof that the government's inflation numbers are WRONG. If you think your assets are safe because they are appreciating at least at the published rate of inflation, you will find yourself as screwed as the postal service.
As I understand it, the post office can't raise the price of stamps beyond the official inflation rate by law. Energy (fuel) is not included in the inflation calculation so the post office has not been able to compensate for the increased energy costs. You can bet that UPS and FedEx have covered their increased energy costs.
Also, the post office pension fund must be funded for retirees who have not been hired yet. The fund goes so far into the future that it covers future employees who have not been born yet. Again, thanks to Congress.
I hate the junk mail too, but make that more expensive and there will be less of it. If the post office is sold off, then watch UPS and FedEx jack their shipping charges through the roof. This will affect a lot of small businesses and internet businesses.
The USPS makes money on First Class letters. It loses money on junk mail. In other words, that crap that fills your mail box and fills your recycle bin is subsidized by the government. What a deal.
That is eaxctly wrong! They lose money on the first class because of the time sorting. Bulk mail comed bundles to each zip code.
Why do people make comments when they have no idea what they are talking about?
"Tradition".
Go read the Congressional subcommittee reports. Especially the testimony by the Postmaster General. Industry lobbies the Feds to continue this sham. By the way. It takes less than 1/50 of a second on a machine to sort first class mail and bundle it. That huge wad of crap mail is the hardest for postal workers to deliver. At the same time junk mail is the bulk of all mail delivered and so if the postal service is losing money it is subsidizing it.
Close the post office. It just sucks more money form tax payers.
Peal away the monopoly that the USPS has on 1st class mail delivery and allow the private sector to complete UPS, FED X etc the USPS will display just how f--ked -- they really are.
Losing 8-9 billion each of the past two years means its time to shut the place down for good.
We should apply the same test to the military as well. The booty from our world conquests is beginning to wane. There ain't but so much oil left. After we stop getting oil for our military costs we'll have to start bringing home antiquities, art, and other exotic baubles. Whatever happened to good old plundering?
Solution to declining EROEI for imperialism? Will we have to start invading countries with better looking women vs. ones who try to sell oil for something other than dollars?
Whatever happened to good old plundering?
Plundering is what the military does to your pocket.
Whatever its problems, the PO may have created the best investment around. Postage stamps are now good forever. So if rates rise to $1 per letter, $5, $10, even $1000 a letter, a stamp bought today for 44¢ will be worth the new rate. And you can get them with Reagan on them.
Not to mention their Flat-Rate boxes, which it seems to me most residents of the Lower 48 are still clueless about, but which are a tremendous deal, and a virtual lifesaver for many small businesses in Alaska and Hawaii.
just get the forever stamps
You'll love paying 16.50 to fedx to mail that christmas card. I know fedex will love it.
Will they love it when -0- people send Christmas cards?
If they love 16$ per card why not charge 16 billion per card?
Maintaining a postal service is one of the few constitutionally mandated responsibilities of the federal government .
Just sayin'
The post office should stop Saturdays and force the unions out. Reduce the size and costs. Fewer day deliveries reduce fuel costs and maybe even full time employment. Since mail traffic is reduced it's a natural to reduce centers as well. Expanision is long gone.
@
Looks to me like they gotta lay off their us citizens and hire illegal aliens and outsource to low wage countries to make it just like all of our record profit making corporations are doing. Maybe we can all sit at home and collect welfare while the "underclass waits on us hand and foot".
And then we can all bitch about how the illegals and china and India, blah bla bla, took our jobs............
Of course if they put boobs on postage stamps...... all of this could be avoided, let your imagination run from here.................................
Who would buy them? Well of course the oil producing countries in the Mideast... like the revolutionary guard.... they would plaster their walls with boobs and we would get all their money (and of course oil, of which it is ours they just own the sand on top, as soon as they figure this shit out the better).
Just an idea to balance the current account deficit and of course budgets.........
Boobs like Grace Kelly, not Franklin Delano Roosevelt right?
I would propose we keep the Post Office & eliminate SCOTUS & their required infrastructure - What benefit has ANY OF THEIR DECISIONS MADE...
I don't think it's possible to know the fair price of anything right now.
The US Post Office system is part of what makes America great. I really don't give a fuck how much it needs to be subsidized, with 300Million+++ spent on Afghanishithole and 7.5 Trillion to bailout banks, I couldn't care less <-- for you fucking idiots, thats how its said, not I could care less.
Why should they not be in the letter carrying business. They are in all other businesses - the cia imports heroin from Afghanistan, Cocaine from Columbia, illegal aliens from Mexico and ME, on and on and on and on. Work for 20 years putting mail in a box and getting a cadillac health care plan and other bennies and then get a pension for life!? What is NOT to like about that shit folks???? Jelous the private sector non union jobs do not provide this for you? You should!!! LMAO AT THE SHEEPLE!!
I wonder if the Postal Servie has to count every stamp ever printed and is outstanding as a liability....They would explain why they are broke.
If valued at par would not they make a fortune selling them < par?
just a thought.
Arcain banking rules.... kind of like holding mbs at par, only the opposite?
dunno, never thought about it befor?
Your tits are crooked. They're pointing away from each other.
For two fiat puppies !
In the previous post I ment greater than par. However being the government they would probably sell them less than par..... lol...
Canceled stamps for which the delivery service has not be rendered. On the other hand, stamps are accountable paper within the postal system. When it is sold over the counter, or delivered in the form of prepaid postage by their on-line label printing system, the accountability ends or dies over time. Regular methods of amortizing (killing) the liability are used to remove the indebtedness from the books.
This is simple. We must pass Glass-Steagall, so our economy can start to function. That in turn with an actual return to a physical economy and mega works projects will over time lower the cost of energy allowing the postal service to slow the increase of costs.
It's not that fucking hard. The economy tanks because of fraudulent economic ideology (and it being played out), the cost of energy rises because we won't do what it takes to lower the cost, and with the bailouts the dollar is worth shit, meaning everything they need to run the USPS costs more to acquire.
Get these aspects under control, and you get a USPS that actually works.
Of course we're going with bailouts, no plan for energy (wind/solar don't count because they're bullshit), and our paper pushing economy which does nothing, is collapsing.
Remember, at some point, even Steve fucking Jobs and Apple (if he wouldn't of died) would not of been able to turn a profit in this fucktard economy. Others are much more sensitive to the stupidity of economists, banksters, and caputred political officials.
Canary in the coal mine.
Like the old poem
First the carmakers couldn't turn a profit, but we said it was their stupid ceos
Then it was post office, but we said they were lazy
Finally my business was shut, and everyone said it was my fault.
No, just like the gassing, it was the inaction of fools that led everything to become so skewed, that no one could stay in business.
Glass-Steagall, and a real focus on what matters, not this fascist imperialist monetarism based on sophistry (austrian, keynesian, etc), where it's everyone's fault why everyone is failing...if only they did something different.
Yeah, if only they stuck it to the fools, and changed the course of the nation so all these businesses, or USPS could function.
The decisions that are allowing these people to fail isn't within the company, they are from those we elect, and by those who pay them to vote on legistlation that way.
Now this doesn't mean there isn't idiocy in management at lots of places, there is, but it's the system that is crushing everyone who isn't Steve Jobs level of management, and in the end, even that wouldn't be enough....so where should we focus? Hmm...blaming USPS....or the SETUP where everyone will fail?
Tough call. For a fucking moron. For everyone else, it's simple. End the fraud. End the sophistry in economics by ditching monetarism of all stripes. So on and so forth. Then and only then, will businesses actually be able to profit without scams. Plus what they profit, won't be hyperinflated away.
The world is indeed a stage, and no one is noticing it is the shittiest performance ever.
20 cents
As much as I hate to say it, my two golfing mail carrier buddies (one caucasian,one Korean) agree with Trav.
I don't understand why there are only two clerks when there are something like 22 people in line with bookoos of packages...and at the same time at least 5 or 6 "supervisors" come out asking if anyone needs to pick up a package.
Why can't a couple of these Chiefs help out the clerks to actually get the line moving faster? Looks to me like they are top heavy.
...just say'n
But of course also the mail should charge what it costs to deliver. It's the pressure from the effects of the policy of dumbasses in Washington and Wall Street/City of London, and our economics professors in trillion dollar student debt land that they are covering for, by not raising prices to maintain it's solvency. But to cure the USPS's problem, you need to actually fix the overriding problem, that isn't limited to USPS...but to all businesses and people in general. (and again we have the idiotic 75 years funding of the pension).
So the price isn't the problem, it's merely the symptom. But one that can be done while shit gets sorted out. But no one is sorting it out.
Glass-Steagall
Doesn't seem like such a hard calculation to me, but of course they have to complete with UPS and FedEx which pays their employees like 30k a year less. The main problem with the government is that they don't feel that they have to compete like the rest of the free market system people the very principle they promote. Once you are a part of the law you become above the law. The Post Office has strong ties to the Democratic Party.
The USPO was profitable when you paid more for your stamp than for televison, and a stamp cost about 20% or less than a gallon of gas. Now you pay for TV, pay more per gallon for water at the convenience store than for gas, and still pay pennies to have a letter delivered. The USPO should charge more; $1 for a first class letter. I am all for privatizing this service, that would probably unleash some creative new features, but a private postal servie would surely charge more than 44 cents for daily first class delivery to the door.
Check out the postal rates in Europe, they have always charged much more than the USPO.
My next door neighbor is retired from the Post Office. He brags to me that he makes more now via his pension than he did when he was working. Plus, he tells me they have the same premium health care plan that Congress does. That's just wrong.
The wrong part about it is that Congress has a health plan at all.
I wonder what they pay for each of those express mail and priority mail forms w/stickers attached that the graffiti crews have discovered they can get for free simply by walking into their local post office and grabbing a handful to put their mark on to stick all over public property. I found this flickr site that they like to post their handiwork on and these people are located all over the country. When I presented this situation, with a simple solution, to the broad behind the counter she looked at me and said, how is this the post office's problem? How do you reply to that without someone calling the police?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jerixthekid/6319550368/in/faves-ober420/
If its some 'artists' applying public property (Soviet Bureaucracy stickers) to public property, as you said- then isn't that appropriate? Isn't that fundamentally sound?
Besides it is A creative use of a state imposed top down 'service.' Assuming those kids' parents work- they paid for the stickers, should they also be denied the use of what they paid for?
My mother in law married a carrier who conveniently croaked from Cirossis? of the liver (Whisky), 25 years ago, she never worked for the USPS, nice pension and she had a million in surgery in the last few years.
They were not married that long either.
So I went to my local PO to deliver a product, find it's mailing cost,basically, $1.67, a screaming deal so I can make money with my product, their were two old gals in front of me with 3 packages between them, you would think the postal workers were reading their own obituaries, it took 20 minutes to process 3 packages and put them on the cart.
I hope we don't lose the USPS, it is pretty awesome, but UNIONS have got it FUBAR, like much else in the USA.
Then move to have the same deal he has to be obtainable for all in the private sector, instead of trying to tear it down out of envy.
Hey! you don't like the cost of a stamp ? Carry your letter yourself. Still a great bargain IMHO
To burst the bubble of all the polemic libertarians here,
I will add my 44 cents.
For the last 6 years my business has been dependent on the USPS.
In my experience their costs and services are actually, excellent. Their
rates of lost /Effed up packages is better than FedEx and UPS, in my experience
and I have hard #s to back it up, at a fraction of the cost.
Compare the costs and projected delivery times for a 10 oz poster tube via
1st Class vs UPS Ground and Fedex Ground.
No contest USPS wins it every time.
I will grant you some moribound counter workers marking time, but it goes with
territory and it's a small price to pay for the better rates and service.
I also compare it to Canada Post and UK Royal Mail - USPS wins hands down
against them too, easily better service and rates.
Just ask Amazon, 90% of their under 13 ounce shipments go by 1st class Too.
How about removing the pension obligation first instead of trying to kill the USPS?
My answer:1/100th of whatever their private sector equivalents do now.
Various points:
To those of you who claim to not need or use the USPS--Since it doesn't cost you any money why do care what happens? Some of you seem pretty worked up about it. USPS receives no tax revenue.
The payroll at USPS has dropped from 900,000 to 650,000 in the last 8 years. A larger percentage decrease that the mail decline.
Bulk mailers get a discount of 8 cents because they prepare the mail in a way that reduces sorting requirements. Weird, since the USPS claims the total cost of processing a letter is 6 cents. Guess who has the lobbyists?
If you want to see what shipping rates would be like without the USPS check what it costs to mail something over 70 pounds (USPS limit). It ain't cheap.
The post office is actually making money, but because they are forced to give 5 billion /yr to the treasury for retierment and medicare benefits it shows a loss.
Another poison pill courtsey the GOP.
source: tonights Thom Hartmann show The Big Picture on RT. It's not up on Youtube yet
EDIT TO ADD
Found a link http://www.joc.com/postal-services/usps-says-cash-shortfall-would-hit-operations
By international standards, the USPS is a screaming bargain. Compare our 44 cents first class rate to Canada's at 59 cents (Can) and the UK at 46 p (roughly 70 cents) and Germany at about 55 cents US. The USPS's rates are held at an artificial level by political constraints. They can't charge what it's really worth.
This is exactly where paying TRILLIONS to Haliburton, XE and all those other Nazis to make war on brown people has a direct effect on the quality of life here in the Fatherland.
I still think Firefighters are the Kings of f**king the dog. Not much to do except polish the rig now and then and cook gigantic meals every day.
And then, we they finally DO get around to doing their job, they are somehow automatically considered to be "heroes".
To me, the real hero is my garbage man picking up the trash in the dark when it is 30 below.
#akak, truth. +1 for you.
To those who want to eliminate the USPS because they don't use it, fine. If that is the standard, let's eliminate the entire Department of Defense because I don't use it.
Of course, eliminating the USPS won't save a dime of taxpayer money. Eliminating the Department of Defense would save BILLIONS. But for some odd reason, the folks here never seem to address the taxpayer money that is wasted on our military.
SP500 monthly chart remains bearish and USDX weekly remains bullish so it’s only a matter of time until the market makes its move.
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
Wow, after months I finally see you in a thread, and you're STILL OFF TOPIC, JACKASS!!
They should charge $5 for anything, then maybe I'd get less junk mail. Too bad they are in cahoots with all the spammers with 3rd class mail, and they still can't make ends meet. Anything the federal government does is woefully inefficent.
USPS should stop subsidizing bulk mail and they can privitize the store fronts where you mail packages and buy stamps.
The USPS is not the problem.......just like any big business, it's being mismanaged into the ground, from the top on down:
The USPS has 207 Vice Presidents....that's right, over 4 VP's per state......me thinks "too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians".
These Chiefs think the solution to everything, is to make the people at the bottom, "do more with less", to the point where 99% of them can't stand working there.
The USPS is not the problem.......just like any big business, it's being mismanaged into the ground, from the top on down:
The USPS has 207 Vice Presidents....that's right, over 4 VP's per state......me thinks "too many Chiefs, and not enough Indians".
These Chiefs think the solution to everything, is to make the people at the bottom, "do more with less", to the point where 99% of them can't stand working there.
Last time I checked the USPS has never had a database intusion, had a letter opened and published by the NYTimes or lost a letter trapped in someone's spam filter. Email is far from perfect and the gov needs to get Fedex and others out of the letter carrier business as per the US constitution. If not then we need a constitutional change. Good luck with that.
What business delivers a "service" on a near daily basis that, 99% of the "clients" dont' care or need delivered that frequently?
I haven't sent or recieved a piece of mail in thirty years via the post office that had to be delivered within a day or two. To expect that level of performance was foolish thirty years ago when there was no FedEx or other, serious, post office competition.
At most, the vast majority of people "need" 3 day a week delivery. Likely most could get away with one day a week delivery. The only reason why the PO prefers to deliver more frequently is the shear volume of junk mail; they likely couldn't carry the weight to each home if it was less frequent.
The waste of time is prodigous. The issue isn't what a stamp should cost for a simple letter, the issue is the incentives are totally screwed up assbackward. No rational business delivers a service at a level virtually no customers need. Ratchet back the frequency of deliveries to a rational level, price everything according to weight, size and priority and let people and businesss users figure out what makes sense for their needs.
In other words; act like a regular business.
at the end of the day it doesn't matter what the price of a postage stamp is....the fed can buy stamp backed securities as another alternation on qe.....