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What Rising Gasoline Prices Do To The Economy

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

What Rising Gasoline Prices Do to the Economy

Charting gasoline prices against income and GDP provides some interesting results.

Since rapidly rising gasoline prices are in the news, let's look at some charts of gasoline and the economy, courtesy of frequent contributor B.C. These depict income and GDP in a ratio with the price of gasoline, and so they reveal information that is not contained in charts showing only the price of gasoline or GDP.

Here is disposable personal income and the price of gasoline:

 

 

When real (inflation-adjusted) wages are stagnant and the price of gasoline is high, as was the case in the late 1970s and the recessionary early 1980s, the ratio is low. If income is stagnant and the cost of gasoline is high, then people have less money to spend on other items and the economy is also stagnant--exactly what occurred after the 1979 Iran Crisis pushed gasoline prices up. (Sound familiar?)

When gasoline is relatively cheap and incomes are rising, then the ratio is high. Thus when oil prices hit bottom and incomes were rising in the late 1990s, then the ratio was peaking.

Look at it now. The ratio spiked in 2009 as oil prices plummeted from $140 per barrel in 2008 to less than $40 by the end of 2009.

Since incomes are stagnant (actually down since the 2007 top) and gasoline is once again on the rise, the ratio is returning to recessionary levels.

 

 

Here is GDP and the price of gasoline:

 

 

As B.C. noted: "These charts show that wages, incomes, and GDP have fallen dramatically in relation to the increase in the price of gasoline (and energy in general) since the secular peak in the late '90s to early '00s." The ratio is back to the recessionary levels of 1990 and 2008 and not far above the "oil shock" stagflation of the 1970s.

If the government portion of GDP is removed, what's left is private GDP to gasoline prices:

 

 

This chart shows the secular decline in the private economy from the late 60s into the late 1980s, and the expansion of the 1990s. The ratio once again began a secular decline from its peak in the Internet boom years of 1999-2000, and then fell off a cliff in the 2008-9 recession.

Though it has recovered a bit, the ratio suggests that in terms of private (non-government) GDP and the price of gasoline, the private-sector economy is plumbing depths that are unprecedented in last 45 years. (The "oil shock" stagflationary 1970s look resilient by comparison, and the nation wasn't borrowing 10% of its GDP every year, either.)

Yes, the Federal government can cover up the damage by borrowing 10% of GDP each and every year ($1.5 trillion, and don't forget to add in the off-budget "supplementary appropriations"), and the Federal Reserve can add trillions in quantitative easing stimulus, but even adding $8 trillion of borrowed/printed money to the economy over the past four years has had remarkably little effect on the private-sector economy. That does not bode well for the "recovery."

 


And for those stapped for time, here is what we posted exactly a year ago:

The Impact Of Surging Oil Prices On The US Consumer: A Primer

A quick talking point: assuming a pure crowding out, the effective $700 tax on consumers reduces GDP by 0.5% (disclosure, the sensitivity is higher than some on the street who use 2.5-2.75 cents for every $1 in oil).

 

 

 

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Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:40 | 2192969 redytogo
redytogo's picture

But they keep telling me there is no inflation....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:50 | 2193014 bdc63
bdc63's picture

yikes ... I think I'm gonna need another cup of coffee and go back and read that one more time ... my Evelyn Wood speed reading did not serve me well with that article ...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:02 | 2193086 rcintc
rcintc's picture

It's just Transitory.....remember?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:38 | 2193241 trav7777
trav7777's picture

let me just synopsize..."high gas prices fuck up the economy's shit"

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:47 | 2193277 pods
pods's picture

High gas prices weren't enough to temper the crowd in Orlando last night.

For shoes.

pods

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:54 | 2193571 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Obama voters, don't they just kill ya?!  LOL!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:35 | 2193769 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

perhaps the shoe-buyers are hoarding for black market resale - shoes will be in demand when no one can afford to drive.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:22 | 2194920 fourchan
fourchan's picture

ooga booga it what i say to that.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:05 | 2193097 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

Has the SPR been filling up after the recent pre-holiday release ? If yes, have they been filling up crude at 80-100 price range and will they now release at 109 ? Might be some easy gains for the SPR there...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:35 | 2193232 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Ya, this sort of rising price is like adding gasoline to the fire.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:23 | 2193181 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

The important thing when calculating inflation numbers is that you have to remember to exclude things that are rising in price - oil, food, etc. The other important thing to remember is that you START with the number you WANT and work backwards to find out what items are relevant in calculating the numbers.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:44 | 2193533 General Decline
General Decline's picture

Well, that implies deception by the money changers. I refuse to believe it. I am just going to remain willfully ignorant so as to not be labeled a terrorist.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 22:51 | 2194835 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

You hippie terrist I just reported you to the Department of Home and land foreclosure and job inSecurity and also i called the National banker Security Administration. they said youz some kinda extremist and a threat to to the cuntry

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:15 | 2195691 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+1...

An important executive position awaits you, Sir Huxley, at either:

  1. The B(L)S...
  2. CREEP-Commitee to RE-Elect the President...
Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:53 | 2193569 mr. mirbach
mr. mirbach's picture

Considering you could but a gallon of gasoline in 1960 for a shiney silver quarter (in the US) and now a shiney silver quarter is worth more than a gallon of gasoline today, then the conclusion is that gasoline's value has depreciated relative to the value of a shiney silver quarter, right? 

 

There really isn't any "inflation," only a devaluation of the value of a dollar thanks to the FED's unlimited release of Federal Reserve Notes thanks to the profligate spending habits of Government idiots (not to mention the continuous bailouts of the world's banking cabal).

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:04 | 2193617 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

valid pt

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:17 | 2193688 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Except printing money is the definition of inflation. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:54 | 2193848 mr. mirbach
mr. mirbach's picture

IMHO, the term inflation is a bankster/economist mindfuck term to convince sheeple that the value of commodities, goods and services are increasing, which circumvents the discernment that the purchasing power of the currency is being destroyed, devalued, deflated, thusly deflecting consumer amamosity to the producers and suppliers of commodities, goods and services and away from TPTB that implement destructive economic policies.

Too bad that sheeple don't get the difference between value/worth and cost/price vis a vis the purchasing power of their money. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:48 | 2194060 noses
noses's picture

I thoought it was called "counterfeiting". You're confusing me.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:58 | 2193873 non_anon
non_anon's picture

we live in the made up world of bankers/gov propaganda, deceptions and lies

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:41 | 2192972 maxmad
maxmad's picture

what economy?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:07 | 2193106 reload
reload's picture

"even adding $8 trillion of borrowed/printed money to the economy over the past four years has had remarkably little effect on the private-sector economy".

perhaps because none was targeted at the private sector - except maybee fraudulent soft loans for political insiders,  they do not count in my book.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:09 | 2193364 gloogle
gloogle's picture

cough * Solyndra * cough...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 17:12 | 2194147 unununium
unununium's picture

At $545 million, Solyndra accounts for .00006 or .006% of the $8T.  But thanks.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:43 | 2192977 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

buh buh buh Obama said he will provide us with algae.

Eat your peas

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:46 | 2192982 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Throw trillions in free money to worthless criminal banksters, and it really does nothing to help the underlying bankrupt economy? Gee, who'd have guessed that? Oh right....all us kooks who were yelling 'DONT BAIL OUT THE CRIMINAL BANKS' back in 2008. But then Paulson the devil himself told our fine 'representatives' to hand over the free checkbook or else there would be martial law and tanks in the streets, which they bought hook line and sinker.

Well I would have preferred the tanks in the streets myself. We'd be better off by now.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:02 | 2193079 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

I would caal the banks a Criminal Syndicate. Paulson engaged in a world record shakedown of our congresscritters and the country.

I can't understand why a Federal Grand Jury hasn't indicted the lot of them by now (maybe they don't know that they can)?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:48 | 2193282 Red Raspberry
Red Raspberry's picture

The fix is in.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:50 | 2193294 pods
pods's picture

Well there is a rumor that a whistleblower told Holder all the dirt.

Now the whistleblower is getting beaten by some dude is Kyrgyzstan.

Smell the freedom?

pods

(joking about the rumor for those asking for links)

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:23 | 2193179 nachtliche
nachtliche's picture

no, it wasn't just the kooks. If you remember, all americans were flooding congress telling them NO to the bailouts initially, and it got voted down. Then the banksters just made a backroom deal. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:46 | 2192983 TruthInSunshine
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The San Francisco Fed, in conjuction with Paul Krugman & Brian Wesbury (of First Trust Advisors), has urded that the Federal Government to adopt their 'white sheet proposal' and distribute a new subsidy card, akin to SNAP, that would allow any American with one motor vehicle or more to obtain 50 'free' gallons of gasoline per month.

The program will be administered by JP Morgan (which will charge 25 cents per each gallon consumed under the program), and will be BULLISH (for Obama's re-election chances).

The Bernank & Geithner have endorsed the wisdom of the proposal, and have opined that they can produce plenty of liquidity to "make it so."

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:48 | 2193006 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Welfare'merica! 

We got this shit! Everyone just receives everything for free, and well....something happens... then we're all saved! Yea this could WORK! Im sure.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:50 | 2193018 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

I can't tell if you're joking or this is something that Paul Krugman has actually advocated.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:52 | 2193029 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Just cant tell anymore. I could hear that the FED just endorsed free size 24 clown shoes and rainbow wigs for all americans, and I'd have to assume its a real story.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:06 | 2193629 dontgoforit
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luv it, man; made me lol!  Thanks

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:53 | 2193031 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture

Probably both

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:08 | 2193355 Kali
Kali's picture

YOU DONT HAVE TO WHISPER! : )

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 18:59 | 2193913 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

This would be "fair" and for once all of the public will be bribed instead of just a select group!

/sarc on

Why stop at just gasoline? How about "free" electricity say, 3,000 - 4,000 KWH per month?

And while they are at it, paid vacations for all as long as the bribe money is spent in this country!

Is this a great country or what?

/sarc off

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:44 | 2192984 digitlman
digitlman's picture

Once Obama opens the SPR we are all saved!

 

LOL

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:35 | 2193231 Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

I don't remember the exact numbers but the SPR has something like a day and a half's worth of US consumption in it.

lol, for sure.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:45 | 2192993 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

I came up with 0.68+00276*(Cost per Barrel) in 208

 

http://www.derivativescollapse.com/Articles.htm

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:21 | 2193168 FOC 1183
FOC 1183's picture

technically should be done using natural logs, but doesn't make much of a difference.  the intercept is irrelevant since we're only worried about the delta. 2.75 to 3.0 cents per gallon per $1 per barrel is close enough.  Most sell-side economists estimate 2.25 to 2.5, but then, they do have an agenda

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:47 | 2193003 hp12c
hp12c's picture

If $5 gas is the price to pay to get Obummer booted, I'll pay it....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:28 | 2193198 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Do you honestly think that whoever will realistically replace BO is going to be able to do anything about the price of gas???

Actaully, I take that back, the Repubs. are quite capable of doing something extraordinarily stupid that will lead to a deflationary collapse... ergo, gas will $2.50 a gallon and UE rate will be about 30%....

It is is truly print or die.....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:12 | 2193383 gloogle
gloogle's picture

WE could try somehing like, oh, building the Keystone XL?  Maybe drill some of our own offshore?  Aaaah, that's just crazy talk....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:46 | 2193509 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Ok...

Please explain to me how a pipeline from Canada to the Gulf coast lowers the price of oil?

Oil on the gulf coast is priced off of Brent, not WTI. Last time I looked Brent was $15 more a barrel...

I am all ears....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:06 | 2193628 VisualCSharp
VisualCSharp's picture

Yep, these stupid people that just parrot talking points have no idea about the bigger picture. The fact is, high-quality oil is becoming scarce and harder to find (that is, it is requiring MORE ENERGY to find and extract). In addition, third-world demand is rising quickly. There is a finite amount of energy on this planet, folks. There is a point when it will take more than 1 unit of energy to yield 1 unit of new energy. When we reach that point, we're screwed. Now, if we could just build some thorium reactors, we'd be set for a long, long time.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:10 | 2193643 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

bernanke beams baby

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:11 | 2193649 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Not that I disagree with you... the problem is not addressed by Thorium reactors, it a liquid fuel problem, the world moves on oil....

Hell, if our freight rail was electrified, you would be on to something...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:23 | 2193722 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

When supply increases, the price falls.  More importantly, when the Presentdent of the United States of America sends a clear signal to the world that says "We're going to supply more oil," then the price falls due to the change in future expectations.  That's what the futures market does.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:34 | 2193765 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Beg pardon.... Supply increases??? What supply is increasing??

Do you understand that WTI is at a discount to Brent because of oversupply at Cushing? And that the volume of world oil based on Brent dwarfs that of WTI?? So the $15 discount will vanish....

As for jawboning... Bush et al did that from 2005 to 2008 and guess what, no one listened.....

 

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:11 | 2193661 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And as for drilling.. how does deep water GoM oil with a marginal cost of $85-95 a barrel decrease the price?

Look, I hate to break it to you, but the US has been poked more than a 2-bit whore in Tiajuana...

There no more easy Prudhoe Bays, Spindletops and Permian Basins out there...Get over it...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:39 | 2194029 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I laff at people that think the Keystone pipeline oil is for Americans. But repubicans are like that, they have no clue.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 17:10 | 2194136 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I'm sure more government intervention is the answer, yeah. 

If the Feds just find the right incentives to encourage everyone to drill offshore or in the ANWAR or whatever, gas prices will drop right back down.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 19:03 | 2194480 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Who ever replaces Obama will do exactly what Obama is doing and you will pay $5 too.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:22 | 2195707 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

The Useful Idiot Barry Soetoro just reads the 'prompter and follows orders...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:47 | 2193004 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture

This is clearly the House Republicans fault.  And the Tea Party.  And Rick Santorum.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:53 | 2193034 bdc63
bdc63's picture

Everbody knows there is a 4 year lag in crude prices ... clearly this is Bush's fault.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:27 | 2195717 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Rick Santorum is a corporate whore media created, moronic grade "A" pope disciple, Opus Dei ass hole...

But don't believe everything you see on TeeVee...

Okay?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:47 | 2193005 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Coffee from $5 to $15 in my neck. Took less than 2 years.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:51 | 2193025 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

You just made my day.  I bought and vacuum-sealed 60 lbs back in '10 at about $4.15/lb.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:58 | 2193052 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

You can still get 8 0'Clock Colombian coffee around here for around $7/pound when it's on sale. When it hits $15 I'll go back to tea.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:04 | 2193092 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

I just steal from the office.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:58 | 2193316 CPL
CPL's picture

Since it slipped past your lips, you know what will happen now.  Your office tells you there is no coffee for staff ever again.

 

That's coming.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:48 | 2193821 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

most "office coffee" is pre-ground, pre-packed, stale filtered cat litter facsimile - the only people who will miss their sugar-milk-bitter-brown-water hot drinks are those equate a sugar-high with a caffeine buzz.

sorry, but coffee is a major food group for some, and no skimping on the quality!

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:29 | 2195724 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

There is no inflation because 1 lb bags are now 12 ounces...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:49 | 2193009 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I saved my sweaters from the Carter years.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 13:32 | 2195728 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Do the sweaters say:

More Nukes, Less Kooks

or

Save the Whales, Harpoon a Fat Chick?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:49 | 2193013 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

Why do I feel like the PTB are about to use the monetary version of the sex 'toy' from se7en on us?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:53 | 2193033 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Oy. No amount of KY will ease that.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:50 | 2193020 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Most people look at a vehicle and just see the fuel in the tank. I ignore that and ask "where else is there oil here." And of course the answer is "everywhere." you know how much oil based products are in a nat gas powered engine? Almost zero. But don't ask me! Just ask (insert bankrupt state/nation/municipality).

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:23 | 2193182 Breaker
Breaker's picture

Really? I would think a natural gas powered vehicle would have a transmission and would need lubrication in the engine, differential lubrication and so on. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:12 | 2193659 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

and all those polymers, polypro, polyethylene, PVC, PS....they're all derived from ethylene monomer which is 'cracked' from hydrocarbons - mostly crude & natural gas depending on alkalyzation values.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:25 | 2193731 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

Your sarcasm detector needs adjusting...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:50 | 2193021 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Inflation spiking? PRINT MORE MONEY! Oil prices rising? Print more money! Economy stagnant? Print more money! Deflation? Print more MONEY!

Hey this shit is EASY!

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:57 | 2193057 bdc63
bdc63's picture

Congratulations.  You are now ready to be a central banker ... but just remember to occassionally say something about a "dual mandate" and when asked anything about gold, roll your eyes and use words like "relic" and "tradition".

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:09 | 2193119 Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture

You unlocked the code!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:54 | 2193040 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Who do these analysts think they are fooling when they say the economy can handle higher gas and oil. Did they not live through 08 when their portfolios got cut in half? Heh.

Anyhow I love the Timmy G piece from CNBC saying the higher prices are due to the economy coming back. Ha!

We have more oil sitting around since 2001 and more refined products than anytime in 15 years!

Wake up! The system will not hold at $140 something or a above.

It is funny too that it was Timmy G that went first with the cutting off of Iran to the world.

Such BS.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:01 | 2193081 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Who do these analysts think they are fooling

 

The target is 50.01% of the voting public.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:06 | 2194663 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I don't know.  Everybody at the gas station on my way to work tonight weren't wearing smiles on their faces.

But, I guess regular prices going from $3.39 yesterday to $3.59 today will do that....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:21 | 2193170 Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

We have more oil sitting around since 2001 and more refined products than anytime in 15 years!

Link to data please.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:34 | 2193226 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    Who do these analysts think they are fooling when they say the economy can handle higher gas and oil.

The educated/affluent set.  About 10% of the total population--instrumental in mid-level managment, "professional" careers, and regional politics.

It's not just what they "think," by the way.  They REALLY ARE fooling that group.  They're the people who've been rewarded the most effectively for their ability to internalize the paradigms and values of our great society.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:14 | 2193385 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

I can confirm this. The hot bimbettes on Bloomberg were framing the discussion of higher oil prices as a solid indicator of a strengthening economy. They literally said this stuff with straight faces.

Sometimes its hard to actually listen to what they're saying. Trish Regan, Sarah Eisen, and that redhead with the gazillion-watt smile of awesomeness......berry naaaahhhzzz.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:54 | 2193043 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

When Barry going to unveil the new SNAP + GAS program? (You must be a registered voter to participate)

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:57 | 2193054 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Registered and pre-vote for Obama....mua ha ha haaaa its GENIUS!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:14 | 2193672 dontgoforit
dontgoforit's picture

more like 'snatch & gag'

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:55 | 2193858 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

No need to bring Michelle into this, now.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:57 | 2193053 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I believe the proper economic term for the effect of rising gas prices is "Bitch slap"...

As in... "Rising gas prices are a Bitch Slap to the US economy"....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:17 | 2193403 gloogle
gloogle's picture

I believe the correct term is "Donkey Punch"...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:15 | 2193678 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

"...knee to the groin..."

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 21:07 | 2194666 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

"....Dirty Sanchez...."

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:57 | 2193056 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

What Rising Gasoline Prices Do To The Economy?

 

Nothing, the scumbags will print more money or lie to us so the end result will be nothing but a blip on your screen.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:08 | 2193112 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Dont worry, this is all actually just a diversion, no one will care about Greece or gas prices real soon when theyre setting off false flag bombs and chemical and biological attacks in your downtown. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:58 | 2193059 besnook
besnook's picture

every penny you pay will be worth it if these oppressed women of that third world theocracy can be liberated into the possession of the usa. this explains it all 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaCgxc1KWbc&feature=player_embedded

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:00 | 2193068 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I really hope you were just being sarcastic.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:58 | 2193060 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Last night I was driving past Miami International Airport. At two gas stations in the area Regular Gas was at $4.40.

This is getting very ugly.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:19 | 2193165 besnook
besnook's picture

if that is true gas is cheap in hawaii. i paid 4.45 yesterday. it is almost to 4.60 in some areas, though.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:39 | 2193246 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Oh yes, it's true.

It was $4.39.9/10 ($4.40)for regular and $4.99.9/10 ($5.00) for premium.

It is also reflected in this site:
http://www.miamigasprices.com/GasPriceSearch.aspx?fuel=A

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:43 | 2193252 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

$3.39 today in rural SC.

 

Edit: The $3.39 is for regular with ethanol, straight up 100%  real gas is .20-.25 more.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:56 | 2193865 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

"real gas"  LOL.

BTW, no need to qualify SC with "rural" - either will do.  :D

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:10 | 2193904 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Well, there is a congested and decaying metropolis with over 125K. ;-)

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:50 | 2193288 Börjesson
Börjesson's picture

Oh, the horror...

Gas in Europe costs twice as much.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:58 | 2193320 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

How much of that is Tax?

Yes we are all aware that gas in Europe is much more expensive. we are also aware of the fact that a lot of that additional cost is tax.

This topic has been cover ad nauseam.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:59 | 2193325 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

I fully believe in your right to live and tax yourselves as seems reasonable to you, but personally I think your governments are using energy as a cash cow a bit too much.  Perhaps it works out better when populations are so concentrated (and more homogenous) and nations so small. Where I live such taxation would pose a grave threat to the lives of anyone working for the federal or state government behind it.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:30 | 2193754 Börjesson
Börjesson's picture

Well, leaving aside the eternal debate about the pros and cons of public (tax-financed) versus individually paid services, there's one considerable advantage to the European-style high energy taxes: It significantly lessens the impact of oil price fluctuations. If the market oil price increases by 50%, it may only result in a 10% increase at the gas pump, since only the (minor) part of the price that isn't a tax is affected.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:59 | 2193874 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Did you write the /sarc tag in white font?  'cuz if you didn't, you just jumped to the top of the 'don't breed with' list.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:16 | 2193936 Börjesson
Börjesson's picture

Not very bright, are you? All right, for the benefit of the dimwits out there:

If the gas price increases from €1.40 to €1.60 per litre, it's no big deal. It won't make a big difference in how much of his hard-earned a European has to spend on gas. He has already adjusted his lifestyle to a gas price of that magnitude. But if the price increases from $3 to $4 per gallon, it makes a much bigger difference for an American - even though the price increase is about the same in fixed amounts.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:30 | 2193985 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

All economic impacts are on the margin, Jethro.  I got what you were saying...just couldn't believe you had convinced yourself it was a cogent or meaningful argument.

Now get back to your Swedish Fish before you hurt yourself. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:47 | 2194058 pods
pods's picture

Ummm, Swedish Fish.

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:22 | 2193965 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Well, its a rather dubious benefit to me but your nature is likely more optomistic then mine.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:58 | 2193063 Jason T
Jason T's picture

I'm actually getting very concerned about the gas situation.. we have record low finished motor gasoline and something is up.. 1.5 more years and they'll be no stock left!!  

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 12:59 | 2193066 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

There's still no good reason for heating oil and diesel fuel to be going for 40 cents over the price of regular.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:09 | 2193117 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Are you a troll?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:00 | 2193069 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Robo ought to be puking up blood about now...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:11 | 2193125 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Wasn't gas free in LA where he is???

Maybe I'm confusing him with the guy that said you could dig it out of the ground for $5 a barrel...Shit, maybe he said gallon...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:26 | 2193190 Hulk
Hulk's picture

PO deniers are in for one hell of a shock, as are the rest of us...

 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:38 | 2193239 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Roughly speaking, there are 3 groups, ~5% that PO aware, 5% that are P0 aware but they deny it and the other 90%...

The other 90% are the ones that make me worry... upset, getting squeezedand likely to do something stupid (e.g. like elect Newt)...

The 5% that are PO aware will find it tough but at least they can rationally look for ways to ameriolate the situation...

The 5% denier crowd are doomed to become bitter people, but since they knew of PO, they might just learn to adapt.... (oh, they are likely to go for a Newt type, just out of spite)....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:57 | 2193868 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

lol, never underestimate the spite vote!  angry folks with nowhere to point fingers join the pissy-party daily.

"if I can't have what I want, then no one gets anything they want!!!!!11!"

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:35 | 2194017 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the 5% deniers worry me the most because they make authoritative sounding arguments to keep the 90% in the dark because the 90% really WANT to believe in the optimistic happy future.  They latch onto whomever will tell them good news.   The 5% deniers know this and because those 5% are really pathetic, small people who have never been liked, respected, and because they hate themselves and are hollow, basically resort to demagoguery to feel special.  The political class is chock full of people like this, who morph into full-on sociopaths.

Elect Newt...it won't make a difference.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 23:05 | 2194871 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Trav are you projecting again?

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:28 | 2195164 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Yeah, projecting the effects of Peak Oxygen....

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:00 | 2193072 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

rase the margin to 200% for 2 weeks, prices will quickly come down.

And what does today prices of gasoline has to do with oil prices contracts today?

Gas at the pump was bought at least 6-8 month ago at much cheaper price. It's pure crime.

If they bought the oil at 108 and sell at today's prices sure, but the oil at that price won't even be delivered to refineres for another 5 month.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:22 | 2193172 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Retail prices reflect replacement (marginal) costs.  Always been that way.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:33 | 2193223 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

"Always been that way."

 

does not mean it's right.... it needs to be changed

we are in fast dynamic enviroment... all trading orders were manual for Always been that way till the last decade.... should we stay with that?

Its time to change.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:35 | 2193230 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

It's time to change.

 

Wouldn't that be an in-your-face slogan for the R nominee?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:55 | 2193307 Red Raspberry
Red Raspberry's picture

Just get the same people who control the price of sliver to take car of gas too.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:00 | 2193074 Gomie
Gomie's picture

It seems that everyone, especially the "experts" parading around on CNBC, etc. are only looking at the effect of gas prices at the pump. What they all seem to conveniently forget is that EVERYTHING goes up with the price of oil. So while it may cost more to fill up your car - which they tell us is no big deal - everyone who makes things we all consume will be forced to either pass along the higher prices to the consumers or eat them and kill their margins. Bottom line - the impact goes far, far beyond just filling up your car with gas.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:03 | 2193091 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Ding, ding, ding. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

But hey guess what we will just take that out of the inflation equation. All is good am I right?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:58 | 2193324 Red Raspberry
Red Raspberry's picture

Can't afford chicken.  I'm going out to shoot some pidgeons.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 14:08 | 2193359 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

You can easily substitute vacations with video games in the quality of life calculation, right?

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:48 | 2193820 carguym14
carguym14's picture

Totall Recall.  Go in and have your vacation implanted in your memory.

#winning!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:10 | 2193123 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Whats it going to take this time around for truckers to cancel their trips as money losers....$4 a gallon? No ones long-haul trucking for free you know. Last time it was around $4.50....getting lower each round trip back up.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:32 | 2193212 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

S Dog, I already explained this in a back-post. Ask any trucker how many times they cross the Hudson now compared to a year ago??? I'ts from 3 to 4 trips a week down to one. I asked my local deli guy how many deliveries he gets and he agrees. He also shows me some of his bills past compared to present and all the cute "fuck you...pay me" letters from his distributors explaining his increase in prices. It's not just the fuel costs, but also the hike in tolls to keep these fuckin' unions expanding.

As many posters have said before and have always kept away from..........INFLATION BITCHEZ!!!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:36 | 2193235 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

I read a research paper on this., The magic number seems to be around 7 bucks a gallon in the US. AT that price our whole economy comes to a screeching halt.  Food rots in the fields, truckers dont bother to even start their rigs, its just all stops.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:46 | 2193269 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

I would like to agree with you, but England pays in the area of what would amount to $8+ a gallon. But......they're smart enough to develop and actually use diesel technology to get 70+ mpg. 

Vacations would turn into staycations and economy would slow sharply here in Amerika, but the world would continue.

But goddamn it would be tough convincing the rednecks to give up them big ass 4x4's sitting in front of their underwater trailers.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:11 | 2193651 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Not exactly a good comparison. England is the size of one or two American states, wherein long distance driving is not an issue. In other words, truckers don't have to drive 800 miles or more to deliver goods. The reason the Brits pay so much for fuel is their tax system. Europe uses fuel consumption as a source of revenue.

I'd love to see an example of that 70 mpg diesel engine you speak of.....on something bigger than a golf cart (which is fine if you only drive occasionally and short distances, because everything is within walking distance, unlike here).

As for those rednecks, who cares if they drive an M-60 tank that gets 5 gallons to the mile. They're paying for it each time they fire it up. No different than our alarmist hypocrite green leaders who drive the same sort of vehicles, just with the optional nav system and heated leather interior, yet expect the rabble to hoof it or drive euro/chinese death traps on our highway system...for the good of humanity, of course.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:38 | 2194027 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Europe also has a great rail system, compared to our POS one.

Scamtrak makes money on NE Corridor.  Acela is profitable.  Yet here we are still stuck with a POS "high speed train" that won't go past 120mph. What a joke.

Acela took over a gigantic chunk of BosWash traffic...yet we have fucking California trying to sell bonds to do this between SFO and LA?  or wherethefuckever?  Idiotic.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:31 | 2195167 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Yeah, and how slow are those elevators?

If you jump, you get there a lot quicker!

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:03 | 2193087 djsmps
djsmps's picture

This is a local quote from a news channel in December. It's very reminiscent of Geithner's quote about the stronger growth fueling prices.

 "Right now, crude oil prices are going up because the financial markets believe the economy is getting better, if the economy gets better people will drive more, there will be more activity out there,” Edmiston Oil President Jon Callen said.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:13 | 2193129 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Even if the economy was 'getting better', which it isnt at all....but what makes them think oil should go up during an 'improving economy'? Last time the DOW was reaching 14,000, oil was under $30.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:04 | 2193096 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Why don't they raise margin requirements like they do with gold and silver? Hmmmmm?  Or threaten the release of strategic reserve that WE PAID FOR?  Goldman must be long oil, that's why.   4 buck gas = recession. Even if folks have the cash, the psychology behind it causes economic fear. Maybe because 4 bucks may just be a stoplight on its way to who knows what. 

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:04 | 2193098 shutdown
shutdown's picture

 

 

There is absolutely nothing that can be done about the relentless attack of peak oil. Mother nature has granted us a finite supply and it's half gone as of six years ago. The fight over the second half is now getting underway. The Four Horsemen are preparing for their best ride ever! There is only one real question remaining: Will their ride be fast or slow?  

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:08 | 2193108 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

"Priced in......"

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:09 | 2193116 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Oil spiking right now. Above 109..and going...

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:14 | 2193139 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

$7 trillion pumped into the organized world crime syndicate know as 'The Banks'.....now WE pay for it thru the ass.

Well, not me really, I dont even need to drive Im out of this crap.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:21 | 2193171 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I barely drive since I work from home and I bike ride a lot. A full tank of gas last me about a month on average. But I see how it impacts many people I know. It's brutal.

A simple calculation: @ $4 per gallon, somebody who makes $10 per hour working a 40 hour week and using 1 (20 gal) tank of gas a week is spending nearly 25% of their gross income on gasoline alone. that's fucked up.

I expect to see gas siphoning making a comeback in the very near future.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 16:18 | 2193948 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

hopefully they live in their mom's basement - otherwise, add in rent @ 50% of gross means they're essentially working to exist.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 01:32 | 2195170 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I resemble that remark....

And it sucks.

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